Re: [Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Jaroslaw Rafa via evolution-list]

Dnia  5.05.2022 o godz. 21:38:05 Ubuntu Shoto Dojo pisze:
> I can send to a group as a Contact List.
> 
> How can I receive from a group?  I need to receive response (or unexpected 
> messages from the group and put them together (group them) in a folder.  I 
> can find nothing in the filters which seem to have any such ability, maybe
> [Sender] [is in group] [specific Contact List]
> 
> This is non-trivial (and perhaps a killer to use Evolution), as I currently 
> have 17 folders into which I need to sort incoming emails, based on 50+ 
> contact lists, ranging from 6 entries to 250+ entries in the list.  Trying 
> to manually maintain individual email addresses in filters as things change 
> is a complete no-go.

If you are operating day-to-day with these 50+ contact lists, I would
suggest to turn them into actual mailing lists, handled by mailing list
server software. This is the way it's commonly done and probably the only
reasonable way to achieve what you want.
-- 
Regards,
   Jaroslaw Rafa
   r...@rafa.eu.org
--
"In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there
was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub."
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Re: [Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Thu, 2022-05-05 at 21:38 -0700, Ubuntu Shoto Dojo wrote:
> How can I receive from a group?  

SMTP has no concept of a group; the upshot is there is nothing in the
message envelope [headers, etc...] which indicate a message was sent to
a group.

What "group" means is always an implementation detail of the client
and/or server.

> I need to receive response (or unexpected messages from the group and
> put them together (group them) in a folder.  I  can find nothing in
> the filters which seem to have any such ability, maybe[Sender] [is in
> group] [specific Contact List]

I, in 30 years [including as a groupware developer], have never seen
such a feature. 

> This is non-trivial (and perhaps a killer to use Evolution), as I
> currently have 17 folders into which I need to sort incoming emails,
> based on 50+ contact lists, ranging from 6 entries to 250+ entries in
> the list.  Trying  to manually maintain individual email addresses in
> filters as thingschange is a complete no-go.

Can you really find no other solution to achieve whatever The Goal of
this usecase is?   Doing truly tortuous things with e-mail is rarely
the best - or only - approach.   Filter on an inbound list of 250+ e-
mail addresses... as an Administrator my immediate response to a user
doing such a thing would be "Don't do that; what are you attempting to
achieve?"   Or you need a server side solution; this isn't an
appropriate task for an e-mail client.

> Is there some way to compare an incoming email address to a Contact
> List?

If you want to attempt to implement something like this Client-Side I
suspect the correct answer would be to use the "pipe to program"
Condition.  Then write a script that talks to EDS and compares to
groups [this is non-trivial, but likely the only correct way]

Or run a server; this is something Postfix can do.  Again non-trivial. 

> Is there any documentation for the storage format for
> 1)  Contacts and Contact Lists
> 2)  Filters
> because I could write (bash/awk/perl/whatever) scripts to update the 
> filters based on the lists, if that is all that is available.

Don't do that.   You can talk to EDS via D-Bus or libfolks(?), do not
grouse around inside files.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Milan Crha via evolution-list]

Hi,

On Thu, 2022-05-05 at 21:38 -0700, Ubuntu Shoto Dojo wrote:
> This is non-trivial (and perhaps a killer to use Evolution),

perhaps, but it really depends.

> as I currently have 17 folders into which I need to sort incoming
> emails, based on 50+ contact lists, ranging from 6 entries to 250+
> entries in the list. Trying to manually maintain individual email
> addresses in filters as things change is a complete no-go.

I do not know if I got your query right. Maybe the closes Evolution can
currently do is:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/evolution/-/issues/1639

It's also hard to say whether it's useful for you, because you did not
specify your Evolution version (for example from the Help->About). The
above landed for the 3.44 series.

> Is there any documentation for the mentioned Scheme language?

Scheme language? Ah, I see, it's in the user documentation. The
"Expression" is similar to the "Free Form Expression". It's as you
figured out, it's only a different way how to specify a filter
condition. Anything you can do with the Free Form Expression you can do
with the provided GUI elements, expect of advanced checking, for "and",
"or" and "not", and maybe some other really advanced things. There is
no documentation for the "Expression", there is only some text about
the "Free Form Expression".

> Is there any documentation for the storage format for
> 1)  Contacts and Contact Lists

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc2426

> 2)  Filters

I guess you checked the online help from:
https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/stable/
That was not updated for a long time due to infrastructure obstacles.
You get better results, more accurate help, when you either install the
help locally (check your distro how/if they provide it), or when you
open the following (temporary) site with a more recent content:
https://infrastructure.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/help.gnome.org/evolution/
The newer help has improved the documentation for the Free Form
Expression, it includes also examples:
https://infrastructure.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/help.gnome.org/evolution/mail-searching.html#free-form-expression

> because I could write (bash/awk/perl/whatever) scripts to update
> the filters based on the lists, if that is all that is available.

In that case I suggest to you to add a filter rule "Pipe To Program",
which will call your script and it'll modify the message by adding a
specific header, on which a next rule will decide where to store the
message. That means you can parse the incoming message in your script.
The Pipe To Program reads back what you write on the stdout and uses
that as a message for the following rules. The changes will be lost if
you do not copy/move the message to a different folder. Note there had
been some issues with the Pipe To Program, which you may or may not
have fixed in your distro.

Bye,
Milan

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Re: [Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2022-05-05 at 21:38 -0700, Ubuntu Shoto Dojo wrote:
> This is non-trivial (and perhaps a killer to use Evolution), as I
> currently 
> have 17 folders into which I need to sort incoming emails, based on
> 50+ 
> contact lists, ranging from 6 entries to 250+ entries in the list. 
> Trying 
> to manually maintain individual email addresses in filters as things
> change 
> is a complete no-go.

I don't understand what you're trying to do. Evolution can handle
mailing lists, so if your groups are organised that way then there
should be no problem, but a mailing list is more than just a random set
of mail addresses. It needs an actual list manager somewhere to handle
it (as with the list we're currently on, the Evolution list).

Do you have a reference to some other MUA that does what you want, so
we can understand the question?

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Andre Klapper via evolution-list]

On Thu, 2022-05-05 at 21:38 -0700, Ubuntu Shoto Dojo wrote:
> I can send to a group as a Contact List.
>
> How can I receive from a group?

How can Evolution semantically know that the message came from within
some "group"? Are there any specific mail headers to filter on?

If a contact list is just a bunch of random email addresses, and one of
those email addresses sends a message to you, that message might be
within the scope/context of that "group" but it also might not be.

You could set up filters based on email addresses or other headers but
it all depends on what a "group" is and how to identify that context.

Cheers,
andre
--
Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

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[Evolution] Evolution - Dealing with groups

[Ubuntu Shoto Dojo]

I can send to a group as a Contact List.

How can I receive from a group?  I need to receive response (or unexpected 
messages from the group and put them together (group them) in a folder.  I 
can find nothing in the filters which seem to have any such ability, maybe
[Sender] [is in group] [specific Contact List]

This is non-trivial (and perhaps a killer to use Evolution), as I currently 
have 17 folders into which I need to sort incoming emails, based on 50+ 
contact lists, ranging from 6 entries to 250+ entries in the list.  Trying 
to manually maintain individual email addresses in filters as things change 
is a complete no-go.

I find, in the Help -> Sorting and organizing mail -> Using Filters -> 
Available Filter conditions references to:  
Expression - "the Scheme language used to define filters" but the link 
merely goes back to Using Filters, and searching the web for for 
 got me nothing.
Free From Expression - a special syntax, but the link goes to an ancient 
bug report and some crude documentation which only provides for a more 
complex search syntax/semantics.


Is there some way to compare an incoming email address to a Contact List?
Is there any documentation for the mentioned Scheme language?

Is there any documentation for the storage format for
1)  Contacts and Contact Lists
2)  Filters
because I could write (bash/awk/perl/whatever) scripts to update the 
filters based on the lists, if that is all that is available.

--
David LaVerne
ubu...@shotodojo.com

"To err is human;  to really foul things up requires a computer."
--

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