Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-09 Thread Linux
Yes, the volume is turned up in aumix, alsamixer and kmix.  

I ran the sound configuration tool.  That doesn't help.

Thanks anyway.

Adrian


On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 09:13:54 +
Alexis L. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote the words:

 
 Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
 research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set to
 zero in aumix..
 
 From: Jack Coates [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Mandrake Expert List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?
 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:33:23 -0800
 
 number 1 thing to check is alsamixer, followed by the system mixer
 (aumix, kmix, c).
 
 On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 21:18, Linux wrote:
   My computer is silent
  
  
   The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf). 
   I am using the onboard sound.
  
   It works fine under Windows98SE.
  
   I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't
   hear anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top or
   kpm.
  
   Below are various commands and their outputs.
  
   lspcidrake -v | fgrep AUDIO:
   snd-intel8x0: Intel Corp.|82801EB AC'97 Audio
   [MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO](vendor:8086 device:24d5 subv:8086 subd:e001)
  
   grep sound-slot /etc/modules.conf:
   alias sound-slot-0 snd-intel8x0
  
   /sbin/lsmod:
   Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
   sg 34636   0  (autoclean)
   parport_pc 25096   1  (autoclean)
   lp  8096   0  (autoclean)
   parport34176   1  (autoclean) [parport_pc lp]
   agpgart40896   6  (autoclean)
   snd-seq-oss31104   0  (unused)
   snd-seq-midi-event  5640   0  [snd-seq-oss]
   snd-seq42608   2  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
   snd-pcm-oss43556   1
   snd-mixer-oss  14488   0  [snd-pcm-oss]
   snd-intel8x0   21988   1
   snd-ac97-codec 40160   0  [snd-intel8x0]
   snd-pcm77536   0  [snd-pcm-oss snd-intel8x0]
   snd-timer  18376   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
   snd-mpu401-uart 4396   0  [snd-intel8x0]
   snd-rawmidi17600   0  [snd-mpu401-uart]
   snd-seq-device  5832   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq
   snd-rawmidi] snd-page-alloc  7732   0  [snd-intel8x0
   snd-pcm] snd40868   0  [snd-seq-oss
   snd-seq-midi-event snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-intel8x0
   snd-ac97-codec snd-pcm snd-timer snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi
   snd-seq-device] soundcore
6276   0  [snd] ppp_async   9216   0  (unused)
   ppp_generic24060   0  [ppp_async]
   slhc6564   0  [ppp_generic]
   af_packet  14952   0  (autoclean)
   e100   56964   1  (autoclean)
   supermount 15296   4  (autoclean)
   ide-cd 33856   0
   cdrom  31648   0  [ide-cd]
   ide-scsi   11280   0
   ehci-hcd   18568   0  (unused)
   usb-uhci   24652   0  (unused)
   usbcore72992   1  [ehci-hcd usb-uhci]
   rtc 8060   0  (autoclean)
   reiserfs  175120   2
   sd_mod 11548   0  (unused)
   aic7xxx   120860   0  (unused)
   scsi_mod   91796   4  [sg ide-scsi sd_mod aic7xxx]
  
   /sbin/chkconfig --list sound:
   sound 0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off
  
   /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
   alsa  0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off
  
   /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
   vol 100, 100, P
   pcm 100, 100
   speaker 100, 100
   line 100, 100, P
   mic 100, 100, R
   cd 100, 100, P
   igain 100, 100
   line1 100, 100, P
   phin 100, 100, P
   video 100, 100, P
  
  
   /sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp:
USERPID ACCESS COMMAND
   /dev/dsp skippi 1841 f  wavplay
  
  
  
   Any thoughts??  Thank you very much.
   Adrian
  
   --
  
  On The Fly Photography
http://204EastSouth.com
  
-BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
  Version: 3.12
GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++
PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
--END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
 --
 Jack Coates
 Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
 
 
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
 
 _
 MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
 
 
 


-- 
 
   On The Fly Photography
 http://204EastSouth.com
 
 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
   Version: 3.12
 GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++ 
 PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
 --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--


-- 
 
   On The Fly Photography
 http

Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-08 Thread Anne Wilson
On Saturday 08 Nov 2003 1:43 am, Carroll Grigsby wrote:
 On Friday 07 November 2003 12:54 pm, Anne Wilson wrote:
  No.  I have talked with Gael Duval about this.  It seems that if
  they did something like that it could be taken that they have
  some legal responsibility for the contents of the TWiki - clearly
  that is unfair, since they do not control it.  He has put a link
  on the Mandrake website, but newbies are not going to find that
  for some time, so it's up to us to find a more helpful way.
 
  Anne

 Anne:
 (Damn lawyers are everywhere, aren't they?) So I suppose that now
 you and Eric are going to start nagging us to add a Twiki plug to
 our signatures? -- cmg

That's why it's in mine g  You know, of course, that this is a link 
to the longer TWiki url?  A few varieties of sig entries would 
increase the chance of catching the eyes of newbies, I think.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-08 Thread Anne Wilson
On Saturday 08 Nov 2003 12:45 am, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 01:34, Anne Wilson wrote:
  On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
   Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
   research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was
   set to zero in aumix..
 
  We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki. 
  One of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant
  FAQs. This one, for instance has been covered there for ages. 
  What can we do the make it more visible to users?
 
  Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the
  Newbie list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the
  Expert list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as
  well?
 
  Any better ideas?
 
  Anne

 I'm trying to get it listed on linux Gazette as well as
 pclinuxonline.

That sounds an excellent idea.  Hope you manage it

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-08 Thread James Sparenberg
On Sat, 2003-11-08 at 02:35, Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Saturday 08 Nov 2003 12:45 am, James Sparenberg wrote:
  On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 01:34, Anne Wilson wrote:
   On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was
set to zero in aumix..
  
   We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki. 
   One of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant
   FAQs. This one, for instance has been covered there for ages. 
   What can we do the make it more visible to users?
  
   Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the
   Newbie list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the
   Expert list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as
   well?
  
   Any better ideas?
  
   Anne
 
  I'm trying to get it listed on linux Gazette as well as
  pclinuxonline.
 
 That sounds an excellent idea.  Hope you manage it
 
 Anne

If anyone wishes to give a here here to the pclinuxonline request the
thread is here

http://pclinuxonline.com/modules.php?mop=modloadname=Forumsfile=viewtopictopic=2342forum=6

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Alexis L.
Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours research, 
I eventually realized that the sound volume was set to zero in aumix..

From: Jack Coates [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mandrake Expert List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:33:23 -0800
number 1 thing to check is alsamixer, followed by the system mixer
(aumix, kmix, c).
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 21:18, Linux wrote:
 My computer is silent


 The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf).  I am
 using the onboard sound.

 It works fine under Windows98SE.

 I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't hear
 anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top or kpm.

 Below are various commands and their outputs.

 lspcidrake -v | fgrep AUDIO:
 snd-intel8x0: Intel Corp.|82801EB AC'97 Audio [MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO]
 (vendor:8086 device:24d5 subv:8086 subd:e001)

 grep sound-slot /etc/modules.conf:
 alias sound-slot-0 snd-intel8x0

 /sbin/lsmod:
 Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
 sg 34636   0  (autoclean)
 parport_pc 25096   1  (autoclean)
 lp  8096   0  (autoclean)
 parport34176   1  (autoclean) [parport_pc lp]
 agpgart40896   6  (autoclean)
 snd-seq-oss31104   0  (unused)
 snd-seq-midi-event  5640   0  [snd-seq-oss]
 snd-seq42608   2  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
 snd-pcm-oss43556   1
 snd-mixer-oss  14488   0  [snd-pcm-oss]
 snd-intel8x0   21988   1
 snd-ac97-codec 40160   0  [snd-intel8x0]
 snd-pcm77536   0  [snd-pcm-oss snd-intel8x0]
 snd-timer  18376   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
 snd-mpu401-uart 4396   0  [snd-intel8x0]
 snd-rawmidi17600   0  [snd-mpu401-uart]
 snd-seq-device  5832   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-rawmidi]
 snd-page-alloc  7732   0  [snd-intel8x0 snd-pcm]
 snd40868   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event
 snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-intel8x0 snd-ac97-codec snd-pcm
 snd-timer snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device] soundcore
  6276   0  [snd] ppp_async   9216   0  (unused)
 ppp_generic24060   0  [ppp_async]
 slhc6564   0  [ppp_generic]
 af_packet  14952   0  (autoclean)
 e100   56964   1  (autoclean)
 supermount 15296   4  (autoclean)
 ide-cd 33856   0
 cdrom  31648   0  [ide-cd]
 ide-scsi   11280   0
 ehci-hcd   18568   0  (unused)
 usb-uhci   24652   0  (unused)
 usbcore72992   1  [ehci-hcd usb-uhci]
 rtc 8060   0  (autoclean)
 reiserfs  175120   2
 sd_mod 11548   0  (unused)
 aic7xxx   120860   0  (unused)
 scsi_mod   91796   4  [sg ide-scsi sd_mod aic7xxx]

 /sbin/chkconfig --list sound:
 sound  0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off

 /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
 alsa   0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off

 /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
 vol 100, 100, P
 pcm 100, 100
 speaker 100, 100
 line 100, 100, P
 mic 100, 100, R
 cd 100, 100, P
 igain 100, 100
 line1 100, 100, P
 phin 100, 100, P
 video 100, 100, P


 /sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp:
  USERPID ACCESS COMMAND
 /dev/dsp skippi 1841 f  wavplay



 Any thoughts??  Thank you very much.
 Adrian

 --

On The Fly Photography
  http://204EastSouth.com

  -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
  GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++
  PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
  --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
_
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Anne Wilson
On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
 Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
 research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set
 to zero in aumix..

We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki.  One 
of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant FAQs.  
This one, for instance has been covered there for ages.  What can we 
do the make it more visible to users?  

Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the Newbie 
list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the Expert 
list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as well?

Any better ideas?

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Charlie
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:18 pm, many eyes noted that Linux wrote:
 My computer is silent


 The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf).  I am
 using the onboard sound.  

 It works fine under Windows98SE.

 I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't hear
 anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top or kpm.

 Below are various commands and their outputs.

Make certain that you have in my case kmix volume turned on. If that is not 
the problem:-

Go into Mandrake Control Center and then:- HardDrake helps you set up your 
hardware:- click on your sound card an run the configure tool. work through 
the commands and see how you go. Every Mandrake install I have to go through 
this procedure to get the sound working.

Charlie

-- 
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a
just man is also a prison.
-- Henry David Thoreau

This email is guaranteed to be wholly Linux Mandrake 9.1, Kmail v1.5 and
OpenOffice.org1.1.0


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Anne Wilson
On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:35 am, Charlie wrote:
 On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:18 pm, many eyes noted that Linux wrote:
  My computer is silent
 
 
  The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf). 
  I am using the onboard sound.
 
  It works fine under Windows98SE.
 
  I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't
  hear anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top
  or kpm.
 
  Below are various commands and their outputs.

 Make certain that you have in my case kmix volume turned on. If
 that is not the problem:-

 Go into Mandrake Control Center and then:- HardDrake helps you set
 up your hardware:- click on your sound card an run the configure
 tool. work through the commands and see how you go. Every Mandrake
 install I have to go through this procedure to get the sound
 working.

Also, if MCC offer alternative drivers, try them.  The recommended one 
is not always the best for your system.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Carroll Grigsby
On Friday 07 November 2003 04:34 am, Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
  Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
  research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set
  to zero in aumix..

 We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki.  One
 of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant FAQs.
 This one, for instance has been covered there for ages.  What can we
 do the make it more visible to users?

 Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the Newbie
 list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the Expert
 list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as well?

 Any better ideas?

 Anne

Anne:
Do you suppose that Sympa or whoever could add the line, Have you visited 
http://twiki/mdklinuxfaq.org yet? after the plug for the store?
-- cmg


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Eric Huff
 Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
 research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set
 to zero in aumix..

Is there a such thing as aumixer in addition to aumix, or is that a
typo on the twiki?  (for now i put aumix next to it)

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/SounD

Google has hits for it, but i think they're typo's, too, because
there are no rpms for it (that i found).

eric

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Anne Wilson
On Friday 07 Nov 2003 2:39 pm, Carroll Grigsby wrote:
 On Friday 07 November 2003 04:34 am, Anne Wilson wrote:
  On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
   Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
   research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was
   set to zero in aumix..
 
  We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki. 
  One of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant
  FAQs. This one, for instance has been covered there for ages. 
  What can we do the make it more visible to users?
 
  Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the
  Newbie list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the
  Expert list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as
  well?
 
  Any better ideas?
 
  Anne

 Anne:
 Do you suppose that Sympa or whoever could add the line, Have you
 visited http://twiki/mdklinuxfaq.org yet? after the plug for the
 store? -- cmg

No.  I have talked with Gael Duval about this.  It seems that if they 
did something like that it could be taken that they have some legal 
responsibility for the contents of the TWiki - clearly that is 
unfair, since they do not control it.  He has put a link on the 
Mandrake website, but newbies are not going to find that for some 
time, so it's up to us to find a more helpful way.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Anne Wilson
On Friday 07 Nov 2003 3:55 pm, Eric Huff wrote:
  Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
  research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set
  to zero in aumix..

 Is there a such thing as aumixer in addition to aumix, or is that a
 typo on the twiki?  (for now i put aumix next to it)

 http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/SounD

 Google has hits for it, but i think they're typo's, too, because
 there are no rpms for it (that i found).

I think it should be aumix - well spotted g.  If no-one comes back 
and argues we'll delete the 'aumixer' bit, leaving aumix.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread James Sparenberg
On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 01:34, Anne Wilson wrote:
 On Friday 07 Nov 2003 9:13 am, Alexis L. wrote:
  Indeed, I have the same audio chip set, and after a few hours
  research, I eventually realized that the sound volume was set
  to zero in aumix..
 
 We have to try to find a way of getting people to use the TWiki.  One 
 of the main reasons for making it was to avoid the constant FAQs.  
 This one, for instance has been covered there for ages.  What can we 
 do the make it more visible to users?  
 
 Eric is now sending out regular introductory messages to the Newbie 
 list, but it seems that newbies are increasingly using the Expert 
 list.  Would it help to have a weekly message here as well?
 
 Any better ideas?
 
 Anne

I'm trying to get it listed on linux Gazette as well as pclinuxonline.  

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-07 Thread Carroll Grigsby
On Friday 07 November 2003 12:54 pm, Anne Wilson wrote:

 No.  I have talked with Gael Duval about this.  It seems that if they
 did something like that it could be taken that they have some legal
 responsibility for the contents of the TWiki - clearly that is
 unfair, since they do not control it.  He has put a link on the
 Mandrake website, but newbies are not going to find that for some
 time, so it's up to us to find a more helpful way.

 Anne

Anne:
(Damn lawyers are everywhere, aren't they?) So I suppose that now you and Eric 
are going to start nagging us to add a Twiki plug to our signatures?
-- cmg


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-06 Thread Linux
My computer is silent


The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf).  I am
using the onboard sound.  

It works fine under Windows98SE.

I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't hear
anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top or kpm.

Below are various commands and their outputs.

lspcidrake -v | fgrep AUDIO:
snd-intel8x0: Intel Corp.|82801EB AC'97 Audio [MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO]
(vendor:8086 device:24d5 subv:8086 subd:e001)

grep sound-slot /etc/modules.conf:
alias sound-slot-0 snd-intel8x0

/sbin/lsmod:
Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
sg 34636   0  (autoclean)
parport_pc 25096   1  (autoclean)
lp  8096   0  (autoclean)
parport34176   1  (autoclean) [parport_pc lp]
agpgart40896   6  (autoclean)
snd-seq-oss31104   0  (unused)
snd-seq-midi-event  5640   0  [snd-seq-oss]
snd-seq42608   2  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
snd-pcm-oss43556   1 
snd-mixer-oss  14488   0  [snd-pcm-oss]
snd-intel8x0   21988   1 
snd-ac97-codec 40160   0  [snd-intel8x0]
snd-pcm77536   0  [snd-pcm-oss snd-intel8x0]
snd-timer  18376   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
snd-mpu401-uart 4396   0  [snd-intel8x0]
snd-rawmidi17600   0  [snd-mpu401-uart]
snd-seq-device  5832   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-rawmidi]
snd-page-alloc  7732   0  [snd-intel8x0 snd-pcm]
snd40868   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event
snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-intel8x0 snd-ac97-codec snd-pcm
snd-timer snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device] soundcore 
 6276   0  [snd] ppp_async   9216   0  (unused)
ppp_generic24060   0  [ppp_async]
slhc6564   0  [ppp_generic]
af_packet  14952   0  (autoclean)
e100   56964   1  (autoclean)
supermount 15296   4  (autoclean)
ide-cd 33856   0 
cdrom  31648   0  [ide-cd]
ide-scsi   11280   0 
ehci-hcd   18568   0  (unused)
usb-uhci   24652   0  (unused)
usbcore72992   1  [ehci-hcd usb-uhci]
rtc 8060   0  (autoclean)
reiserfs  175120   2 
sd_mod 11548   0  (unused)
aic7xxx   120860   0  (unused)
scsi_mod   91796   4  [sg ide-scsi sd_mod aic7xxx]

/sbin/chkconfig --list sound:
sound   0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off

/sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
alsa0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off

/sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
vol 100, 100, P
pcm 100, 100
speaker 100, 100
line 100, 100, P
mic 100, 100, R
cd 100, 100, P
igain 100, 100
line1 100, 100, P
phin 100, 100, P
video 100, 100, P


/sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp:
 USERPID ACCESS COMMAND
/dev/dsp skippi 1841 f  wavplay



Any thoughts??  Thank you very much.  
Adrian

-- 
 
   On The Fly Photography
 http://204EastSouth.com
 
 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
   Version: 3.12
 GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++ 
 PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
 --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--


-- 
 
   On The Fly Photography
 http://204EastSouth.com
 
 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
   Version: 3.12
 GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++ 
 PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
 --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why does my sound not work?

2003-11-06 Thread Jack Coates
number 1 thing to check is alsamixer, followed by the system mixer
(aumix, kmix, c).

On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 21:18, Linux wrote:
 My computer is silent
 
 
 The mobo is an Intel D865GBF (www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bf).  I am
 using the onboard sound.  
 
 It works fine under Windows98SE.
 
 I use Enlightenment, and I can enable sounds under E, but I don't hear
 anything.  I can also see that esd is running if I run top or kpm.
 
 Below are various commands and their outputs.
 
 lspcidrake -v | fgrep AUDIO:
 snd-intel8x0: Intel Corp.|82801EB AC'97 Audio [MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO]
 (vendor:8086 device:24d5 subv:8086 subd:e001)
 
 grep sound-slot /etc/modules.conf:
 alias sound-slot-0 snd-intel8x0
 
 /sbin/lsmod:
 Module  Size  Used byNot tainted
 sg 34636   0  (autoclean)
 parport_pc 25096   1  (autoclean)
 lp  8096   0  (autoclean)
 parport34176   1  (autoclean) [parport_pc lp]
 agpgart40896   6  (autoclean)
 snd-seq-oss31104   0  (unused)
 snd-seq-midi-event  5640   0  [snd-seq-oss]
 snd-seq42608   2  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event]
 snd-pcm-oss43556   1 
 snd-mixer-oss  14488   0  [snd-pcm-oss]
 snd-intel8x0   21988   1 
 snd-ac97-codec 40160   0  [snd-intel8x0]
 snd-pcm77536   0  [snd-pcm-oss snd-intel8x0]
 snd-timer  18376   0  [snd-seq snd-pcm]
 snd-mpu401-uart 4396   0  [snd-intel8x0]
 snd-rawmidi17600   0  [snd-mpu401-uart]
 snd-seq-device  5832   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq snd-rawmidi]
 snd-page-alloc  7732   0  [snd-intel8x0 snd-pcm]
 snd40868   0  [snd-seq-oss snd-seq-midi-event
 snd-seq snd-pcm-oss snd-mixer-oss snd-intel8x0 snd-ac97-codec snd-pcm
 snd-timer snd-mpu401-uart snd-rawmidi snd-seq-device] soundcore 
  6276   0  [snd] ppp_async   9216   0  (unused)
 ppp_generic24060   0  [ppp_async]
 slhc6564   0  [ppp_generic]
 af_packet  14952   0  (autoclean)
 e100   56964   1  (autoclean)
 supermount 15296   4  (autoclean)
 ide-cd 33856   0 
 cdrom  31648   0  [ide-cd]
 ide-scsi   11280   0 
 ehci-hcd   18568   0  (unused)
 usb-uhci   24652   0  (unused)
 usbcore72992   1  [ehci-hcd usb-uhci]
 rtc 8060   0  (autoclean)
 reiserfs  175120   2 
 sd_mod 11548   0  (unused)
 aic7xxx   120860   0  (unused)
 scsi_mod   91796   4  [sg ide-scsi sd_mod aic7xxx]
 
 /sbin/chkconfig --list sound:
 sound 0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off
 
 /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
 alsa  0:off   1:off   2:on3:on4:on5:on6:off
 
 /sbin/chkconfig --list alsa:
 vol 100, 100, P
 pcm 100, 100
 speaker 100, 100
 line 100, 100, P
 mic 100, 100, R
 cd 100, 100, P
 igain 100, 100
 line1 100, 100, P
 phin 100, 100, P
 video 100, 100, P
 
 
 /sbin/fuser -v /dev/dsp:
  USERPID ACCESS COMMAND
 /dev/dsp skippi 1841 f  wavplay
 
 
 
 Any thoughts??  Thank you very much.  
 Adrian
 
 -- 
  
On The Fly Photography
  http://204EastSouth.com
  
  -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Version: 3.12
  GAT d-@ s: a C++ UL++ L++(+++) P E- W++ !N o? K- w--- M+ PS+++ 
  PE+++ Y+ PGP t++@ 5+++ X++ R+@ tv-- b++ DI D+ G e+ h+ r y++
  --END GEEK CODE BLOCK--
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why can't I get my 802.11b card into monitor mode?

2003-10-21 Thread Praedor Atrebates
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I have kernel pcmcia orinoco-0.13e driver patched with the 
orinoco-0.13e-patch.diff to provide monitor mode.  My wlan card is an orinoco 
gold.  The patch appears successful as iwpriv indicates that monitor mode is 
now available:

iwpriv eth0 results:

eth0  Available private ioctl :
  force_reset  (8BE0) : set   0get   0
  card_reset   (8BE1) : set   0get   0
  set_port3(8BE2) : set   1 intget   0
  get_port3(8BE3) : set   0get   1 int
  set_preamble (8BE4) : set   1 intget   0
  get_preamble (8BE5) : set   0get   1 int
  set_ibssport (8BE6) : set   1 intget   0
  get_ibssport (8BE7) : set   0get   1 int
  monitor  (8BE8) : set   2 intget   0
  dump_recs(8BFF) : set   0get   0

Trying to get into monitor mode:

iwconfig eth0 mode monitor
Error for wireless request Set Mode (8B06) :
SET failed on device eth0 ; Invalid argument.

Yet here I simply cannot get it into monitor mode.  Why?  What is missing 
here?

praedor

- -- 
Our ship is in the hands of pilots who are steering directly under full sail 
for a rock.  The whole crew may see this course to violate our liberties in 
full view if they look the right way.
- --Samuel Adams, 1771
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD4DBQE/lTeAaKr9sJYeTxgRAjdjAJwNFMgu11/U50OCcCa4R9qBHt6j7QCWN6GW
OLlPZDBG3jBG1LtUqZF8UQ==
=bG4L
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-18 Thread Michael Adams
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:42:37 -0700
Rolf Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 Turgut Kalfaoglu wrote:
  A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new
  version, does not use the default installation directories of each
  package? Because otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance
  of ending up with two versions of the same files!  -turgut
  
  -
  Turgut Kalfaoglu:  http://www.kalfaoglu.com
  EgeNet Internet Services: http://www.egenet.com.tr
  
 
 Mandrake strives to conform to the Linux Standards Base and has been
 LSB certified: 
 http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/community/mandrakesoftnews/news?n=/mandrakesoft/products/2381
 
 
 The LSB specifies the Filesystem Hiearchy Standard as the authority
 for where files go: 
 http://www.linuxbase.org/spec/refspecs/LSB_1.3.0/gLSB/gLSB/execenvfhs.html
 http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/index.html#TOC
 
 The standards allow for some options and are somewhat open to 
 interpretation.  Different software authors might have different 
 interpretations, implement options differently, or lack compliance
 with these standards.
 
 Rolf

In other words, it's up to the package authors to come up to speed with
the Linux Standard Base. Mandrake does a good job of squeezing any RPM's
files into the right directories and where necessary makes links
(/etc/rc3.d/ - /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/).

Any 3rd party package that does comply with LSB installs well in
Mandrake (refer OO.o thread).

-- 
Michael

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-17 Thread Turgut Kalfaoglu

A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new version,
does not use the default installation directories of each package? Because
otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance of ending up with two
versions of the same files!  -turgut

-
Turgut Kalfaoglu:  http://www.kalfaoglu.com
EgeNet Internet Services: http://www.egenet.com.tr



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-17 Thread Kwan Lowe


 A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new version,
 does not use the default installation directories of each package? Because
 otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance of ending up with two
 versions of the same files!  -turgut



I was thinking about this recently after doing some from-source
installations of the 1.x Apache software. It was actually better for me
that Mandrake chose to use their own hierarchy because otherwise my
install would have been more difficult. Since software creators have some
creative and unusual choices for their installation directories, it seems
better for my sanity that they enforce their directory structure.

Is it LSB compliant? Dunno, but it seems close.
-- 
The Digital Hermit  Unix and Linux Solutions
http://www.digitalhermit.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-17 Thread Adolfo A. Bello B.
 A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new version,
 does not use the default installation directories of each package? Because
 otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance of ending up with two
 versions of the same files!  -turgut

I have been asking myself this question for quite some time.

I try to install the critical packages (those running as service or being
invoked quite frequently, like evolution) using the developers packages and
not those one coming in the distro CDs. This way, when a security
vulnerability is fixed I just upgrade without waiting for Mandrake to build
their own version of the package, which BTW they do pretty fast.

Adolfo

P.S. Sorry if this mail goes in HTML format. Using lookout express
temporarily.



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-17 Thread Rolf Pedersen


Turgut Kalfaoglu wrote:
A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new version,
does not use the default installation directories of each package? Because
otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance of ending up with two
versions of the same files!  -turgut
-
Turgut Kalfaoglu:  http://www.kalfaoglu.com
EgeNet Internet Services: http://www.egenet.com.tr
Mandrake strives to conform to the Linux Standards Base and has been LSB 
certified: 
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/community/mandrakesoftnews/news?n=/mandrakesoft/products/2381 

The LSB specifies the Filesystem Hiearchy Standard as the authority for 
where files go: 
http://www.linuxbase.org/spec/refspecs/LSB_1.3.0/gLSB/gLSB/execenvfhs.html
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/index.html#TOC

The standards allow for some options and are somewhat open to 
interpretation.  Different software authors might have different 
interpretations, implement options differently, or lack compliance with 
these standards.

Rolf








Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why not use the default directories?

2003-10-17 Thread James Sparenberg
On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 05:46, Kwan Lowe wrote:
 
  A general comment: Why doesn't Mandrake, when it's building a new version,
  does not use the default installation directories of each package? Because
  otherwise, when we reinstall it, we have a chance of ending up with two
  versions of the same files!  -turgut
 
 
 
 I was thinking about this recently after doing some from-source
 installations of the 1.x Apache software. It was actually better for me
 that Mandrake chose to use their own hierarchy because otherwise my
 install would have been more difficult. Since software creators have some
 creative and unusual choices for their installation directories, it seems
 better for my sanity that they enforce their directory structure.
 
 Is it LSB compliant? Dunno, but it seems close.

Actually I've often found it to be a lot more compliant (and btw it does
pass the test if you install the LSB packages) than some of the stuff
coming from the developers. QMail is a great example, Gee lets put all
of our executables in /var and the forbid the user to change it. (read
the license.) This is why the --prefix=   switch is present when you
do config.  --prefix=/usr works real well at keeping you from having 2
versions.  or  even more important sometimes.  Allows you to have 2
versions so you can test before taking it live.  

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-19 Thread Anne Wilson
On Friday 19 Sep 2003 3:43 am, Vincent Danen wrote:
 On Thu Sep 18, 2003 at 07:29:36PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:
Thanks from here too for the hard work you do Vincent. Tuning
in to the list on top of security updates is over and above
the call of duty :-)
  
   =)  Unfortunately, there's no one else active on the expert
   list.. the developers are (understandably) taken up on the
   cooker list, so someone has to hang out here with the
   experts... =)
 
  Vincent,
 
 Why is it I detect a sense of wry sarcasm in that last word. 
  *grin*

 Ummm... no sarcasm here... honest.  =)

 Seriously, tho, I sometimes think this list is full of experts,
 then other times I think all the newbies on the newbie list hang
 out here just to question the minority experts, but that could just
 be me.  =)

 Either way is fine and I'm happy to hang out with the
 experts/newbies alike.

I suspect that the noise/signal ratio on the newbie list puts some 
people off.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-19 Thread Jack Coates
On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 01:19, Anne Wilson wrote:
 ... Why is it I detect a sense of wry sarcasm in that last word. 
   *grin*
 
  Ummm... no sarcasm here... honest.  =)
 
  Seriously, tho, I sometimes think this list is full of experts,
  then other times I think all the newbies on the newbie list hang
  out here just to question the minority experts, but that could just
  be me.  =)
 
  Either way is fine and I'm happy to hang out with the
  experts/newbies alike.
 
 I suspect that the noise/signal ratio on the newbie list puts some 
 people off.
 
 Anne

:g/newbie/s//expert/g
We've had some pretty bad s/n problems here, remember when Todd had to
get mean? :-)

As I've said before, there shouldn't be multiple lists with
self-selecting categories of newbie and expert. One list to rule them
all, with an iron-fisted moderator, mu-whahahah! And... sympa sucks!

-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Anne Wilson
On Thursday 18 Sep 2003 12:14 am, Vincent Danen wrote:
  With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty
   damn speedy.
 
  absolutely, but... let's step into the managerial mind for a
  little while:


 Well, let's put this properly.  Vincent doesn't *need* help. 
 Vincent would like help.  Vincent's wife would like help.  But
 Vincent is a trooper and can do the job he is paid to do, no
 question.

But if Vincent doesn't 'get a life' he will burn out.

  User complaints help steer things to path 2.

 Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have
 to re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of
 time).

Absolutely the preferred option.  But would customer complaints help 
here?  Having been a manager short of cash, I think they would only 
annoy.  Now when things start to look better, that might be the time 
to signal our preferences.

Meanwhile, Vincent, you do a great job

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 11:52, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 01:03 PM, Vincent Danen wrote:
 
  On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 08:19:45AM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 
  That is another problem.  I found out about it from other
  distribution's security announcements then I checked MandrakeSecure 
  and
  found that they posted the information there.  They should send an
  announcement like this to the mailing lists.
 
  The only problem is that you're not subscribed to the right mailing 
  list.
  Subscribe to the announce list (via MandrakeSecure, the very site you 
  were
  on).
 
  Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay 
  attention
  to one of the many:
 
  - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  - full-disclosure ml
  - RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
  - MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
  - MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
 
  And no, announcements will not be going to this list or any other list 
  other
  than the announce list.
 
 I appreciate the information and I just subscribed to the announce 
 list.  However, the same way I didn't know about the 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] list I am sure there are many others that 
 are not aware of it.  If there is a bug that has a potential of 
 becoming a way to break into a computer I feel that all mailing list be 
 notified of it to minimize the potential damage.  Mandrake may have 
 many newbies (I hope you do, you need the business) which are new to 
 Linux and may need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small 
 icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates 
 available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for 
 updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very 
 nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.
 
 Avi

Avi,

   Whereas I like the icon idea, I do want to point out one thing.  It
came from copying windows XP and we all know how much windows users pay
attention to this feature. *evile grin*  Sides it doesn't work too well
when the user doesn't have root.  Better to notify IT via e-mail.  The
user can't do much more than stare at the icon.  

james



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:43, Jack Coates wrote:
 Steffen Barszus wrote:
 
  Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2003 21:07 schrieb Vincent Danen:
  
  
 Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
 up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
 same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
 and then what?
  
  
  Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
  times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
  me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
  sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 
  
  Steffen
 
 I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from mandrakesecure, once from 
 Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every other Linux 
 distributor out there, in addition to the original discovery argument.
 
 Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
 Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
 minions :-)

Dunno here Jack.  MDK and SuSE are ssh patched.  RH is still 6 versions
behind in the last (a while back too) update for anything but 9.  I have
noticed that for every 5 or 6 notices I get from RH I get 1 from either
SuSE or Mandrake.  Lotta times, it's just bug fixes for things like
compiling kernels (think 8.0 and 7.0) So I'm not sure if RH patches
faster or has more bugs to fix. *grin*

James
 


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 14:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  With all due respect to you all, but I don`t like the idea one bit. It
  means
  Mandrakesoft has a line into my taskbar which I did not ask for. Just as I
  don`t like Microsoft working interactively with my computer, or other
  adware/spyware calling home when I still used Windows, I wouldn`t like
  Mandrakesoft to have a thread into any corner of my boxes. If it`s an
  optional package,  fine I won`t use it. If it comes built in the distro I
  will disable it, remove it or whatever it takes to avoid it. It goes
  against
  my sense of privacy. Maybe not to that of others, very well, but I don`t
  like the idea.
 
 I've been looking at many of the auto-update features for different
 distros. RedHat keeps a central database of installed packages if you use
 their up2date mechanism, and this would probably irk many users. However,
 most of the others seem to be passive updaters. I.e., they pull down a
 list of packages and compare them locally *without* sending any
 information to a central database. In any case, Mandrake's really cool
 distributed update system would likely preclude an update mechanism that
 needed a single database.
 
 I would like to see a centralized management console for Mandrake systems.
 The designated management station could maintain a list of updates as some
 sort of server; the clients (whether local on on the LAN or 'Net) could
 then query the central server and update the local package database. This
 would be useful because it allows an operator to get an idea of a system's
 patch status without needing the machine to be online. The central server
 need not be an official site, but could be another machine on the LAN that
 you control.
 


urpmi + mirroring software and you have it.  I run/ran actually one in
my last position.  I just used fmirror to keep in sync with one of the
MDK mirrors for each distro.  This included the hdlist.cz then I just
did an addmedia for my update server and pointed it at the box on my lan
instead of one of the mandrake mirrors.  We later set it up so that the
directory that got synced and the one that people pulled from where not
the same one.  This way I could manually run rpm -K on all the rpms to
verify sig and md5checksum before I put it on my network.  Then I'd sync
the two directories.  Remove the old version in case it was a 2nd
update, and I'd be off and running.  With urpmi.udpate -a and urpmi
-update --auto-select in a cron job the boxes would update themselves
every night.  Works well too.  If I wanted to add a local rpm to the
update list I would put it in the dir and then run genhdlist against it
and I'd have me new hdlist.cz.  I even put the cd's on the lan this way
so that if someone needed to install something all they had to do was
run urpmi and it was available.  (I would disable the CD listings and
just have networked ones.)  No need for special software just a bit of
time (one day in fact) and set it up.


James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 14:42, Jack Coates wrote:
 Vincent Danen wrote:
 
  On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 12:43:05PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:
 ...
 
 Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
 Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
 minions :-)
  
  
  I think all things considered, we aren't that slow.  If you're defining slow
  by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it by a few days, shame on
  me.
  
  I think we're fairly close to the other big players when it comes to the big
  updates.
  
  And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ about a half dozen
  security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to worry about compiling for a
  number of different versions.  Contrary to popular opinion, it *does* take
  time to properly compile and test packages on each supported platform.
  
  We also don't run our own server for updates so we have to wait for
  mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce it that minute, we have
  to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get flooded with you
  announced it so where is it? messages, just due to the mirroring process.
  
  With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty damn speedy.
  
 
 absolutely, but... let's step into the managerial mind for a little while: 


 it's dark in here  here..ere.ere.ere.
ere..
 
 fact: Vincent is working really hard, doing a job that takes six people 
 at other companies. He's typically a few hours behind those other 
 companies, but the users don't complain much. Vincent says he needs help 
 when we get some money.
 
 path 1: Ignore the situation until Vincent flames out, then hire some 
 starry-eyed outsider who thinks he can fix everything.
 
 path 2: When the money starts coming in again, hire some college kids to 
 help out. Rinse and repeat until a couple of them stick on.
 
 User complaints help steer things to path 2.


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 21:39, Jack Coates wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 16:14, Vincent Danen wrote:
 ...
   path 1: Ignore the situation until Vincent flames out, then hire some 
   starry-eyed outsider who thinks he can fix everything.
  
  /me shudders
  
   path 2: When the money starts coming in again, hire some college kids to 
   help out. Rinse and repeat until a couple of them stick on.
  
  /me shudders again
  
   User complaints help steer things to path 2.
  
  Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
  re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).
 
 It's certainly true that competent people cost a lot less than they did
 last year; dang near cheap as college kids now. I think I'd better stop
 typing before I rhapsodize too much about how well the economy is
 recovering.

Jack,

   Little in 2000 did any of us realize that when Brush said that the
economy was headed for a crash, this wasn't a prediction.  It was a
promise.

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Jack Coates
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 02:02, James Sparenberg wrote:
 On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:43, Jack Coates wrote:
  Steffen Barszus wrote:
  
   Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2003 21:07 schrieb Vincent Danen:
   
   
  Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
  up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
  same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
  and then what?
   
   
   Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
   times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
   me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
   sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 
   
   Steffen
  
  I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from mandrakesecure, once from 
  Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every other Linux 
  distributor out there, in addition to the original discovery argument.
  
  Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
  Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
  minions :-)
 
 Dunno here Jack.  MDK and SuSE are ssh patched.  RH is still 6 versions
 behind in the last (a while back too) update for anything but 9.  I have
 noticed that for every 5 or 6 notices I get from RH I get 1 from either
 SuSE or Mandrake.  Lotta times, it's just bug fixes for things like
 compiling kernels (think 8.0 and 7.0) So I'm not sure if RH patches
 faster or has more bugs to fix. *grin*
 
 James
  

Red Hat definitely sucks pretty bad. I've been having to do a lot of
work with 6.2 and 7.3 lately, building test environments to recreate
customer-discovered bugs in. Man, I miss urpmi. up2date is just flatout
broken in 6.2 (way out of support window, tell that to the thousands of
customers still using it), and on 7.3 I've actually been installing
Ximian's Red Carpet to get something that can do dependencies worth a
damn.

-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 08:13, Jack Coates wrote:
 On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 02:02, James Sparenberg wrote:
  On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 12:43, Jack Coates wrote:
   Steffen Barszus wrote:
   
Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2003 21:07 schrieb Vincent Danen:


   Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
   up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
   same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
   and then what?


Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 

Steffen
   
   I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from mandrakesecure, once from 
   Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every other Linux 
   distributor out there, in addition to the original discovery argument.
   
   Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
   Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
   minions :-)
  
  Dunno here Jack.  MDK and SuSE are ssh patched.  RH is still 6 versions
  behind in the last (a while back too) update for anything but 9.  I have
  noticed that for every 5 or 6 notices I get from RH I get 1 from either
  SuSE or Mandrake.  Lotta times, it's just bug fixes for things like
  compiling kernels (think 8.0 and 7.0) So I'm not sure if RH patches
  faster or has more bugs to fix. *grin*
  
  James
   
 
 Red Hat definitely sucks pretty bad. I've been having to do a lot of
 work with 6.2 and 7.3 lately, building test environments to recreate
 customer-discovered bugs in. Man, I miss urpmi. up2date is just flatout
 broken in 6.2 (way out of support window, tell that to the thousands of
 customers still using it), and on 7.3 I've actually been installing
 Ximian's Red Carpet to get something that can do dependencies worth a
 damn.

If you want to get industrious you could create a urpmi for Redhat. 
Perl URPM libraries + urpmi + genhdlist... *grin*

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Mike Rambo
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 11:13, Jack Coates wrote:
 
 Red Hat definitely sucks pretty bad. I've been having to do a lot of
 work with 6.2 and 7.3 lately, building test environments to recreate
 customer-discovered bugs in. Man, I miss urpmi. up2date is just flatout
 broken in 6.2 (way out of support window, tell that to the thousands of
 customers still using it), and on 7.3 I've actually been installing
 Ximian's Red Carpet to get something that can do dependencies worth a
 damn.
 

While I can't argue that RedHat's own update method stinks I would point
out that there are alternatives (albeit inconvenient at least initially
since you need to add them manually). The k12ltsp distro is a pure
RedHat du jour with certain package enhancements (mostly added packages
though a couple of them like dhcpd are just modified) and includes both
yum and apt-get. There are repositories with official redhat packages
for both update managers. Personally, I have found either one at least
as easy to use as urpmi. We use K12os or Yellowdog on all our servers
depending upon platform (x86, PPC). I'm a Mandrake user on my
workstation and have been since 7.1.

I know that the yum package is available for rh7.3 too (thought apt-get
was but I can't find it). On rh6.2 you're probably out of luck as that's
pretty old and I'm not aware of too many aside from Debian who were
running a 'urpmi' type package manager back then.

ftp://k12linux.mesd.k12.or.us/pub/yum/

Actually, as I look at it, if you add the following site to yum.conf
(following the pattern already established in the file) it looks like
you can 'yum update' all the way back to 6.2 - didn't know that.

http://ayo.freshrpms.net/redhat/8.0/i386/ ... [os,updates]

I don't know 'how up to date' the 6.2 updates would be though as RH is
almost certainly not doing them anymore.

You seem to expect a lot out of them with regard to the updates. Does
anyone keep updates for a distro that far back? It would appear Mandrake
doesn't go back beyond 8.2 for current updates.


-- 
Mike Rambo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

NOTE: In order to control energy costs the light at the end 
of the tunnel has been shut off until further notice...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Jack Coates
Mike Rambo wrote:

On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 11:13, Jack Coates wrote:

Red Hat definitely sucks pretty bad. I've been having to do a lot of
work with 6.2 and 7.3 lately, building test environments to recreate
customer-discovered bugs in. Man, I miss urpmi. up2date is just flatout
broken in 6.2 (way out of support window, tell that to the thousands of
customers still using it), and on 7.3 I've actually been installing
Ximian's Red Carpet to get something that can do dependencies worth a
damn.


While I can't argue that RedHat's own update method stinks I would point
out that there are alternatives (albeit inconvenient at least initially
since you need to add them manually). The k12ltsp distro is a pure
RedHat du jour with certain package enhancements (mostly added packages
though a couple of them like dhcpd are just modified) and includes both
yum and apt-get. There are repositories with official redhat packages
for both update managers. Personally, I have found either one at least
as easy to use as urpmi. We use K12os or Yellowdog on all our servers
depending upon platform (x86, PPC). I'm a Mandrake user on my
workstation and have been since 7.1.
Installed apt-get with the tuxfamily sources. It doesn't have three 
quarters of the software I tried to install with it, and those it does 
have it says it can't install. Rather than take time to figure out 
what's wrong with it, I'll just rebuild this box with Mandrake 9.2 when 
it comes out.

--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle.Org: Integrating Value, Simians, and Pasta Since 1996.

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 09:41:34PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:

Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).

   Let's try path #4. Go to Scotland and get Vincent cloned. You don't have
   to name him Dolly #3, really! And pls. let's not get into that
   geek/sheep thing!
  
  Ummm... let's not.  I really don't think the world needs two of me... =)
  
   I appreciate Vincent's work and whenever there's a way to help, Vincent,
   you know where to find me.
  
  Thanks, Wolfgang.  The sentiments are appreciated.
 
 Thanks from here too for the hard work you do Vincent. Tuning in to the
 list on top of security updates is over and above the call of duty :-)

=)  Unfortunately, there's no one else active on the expert list.. the
developers are (understandably) taken up on the cooker list, so someone has
to hang out here with the experts... =)

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Vincent Danen
On Thu Sep 18, 2003 at 09:49:47AM +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:

   With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty
damn speedy.
  
   absolutely, but... let's step into the managerial mind for a
   little while:
 
  Well, let's put this properly.  Vincent doesn't *need* help. 
  Vincent would like help.  Vincent's wife would like help.  But
  Vincent is a trooper and can do the job he is paid to do, no
  question.
 
 But if Vincent doesn't 'get a life' he will burn out.

Bah.  I hang out with my wife and kid occassionally, do my own thing every
once in a while, and generally have a good time.  The benefit to you guys is
that I love my job and have fun (most of the time) doing what I do... so the
extra time involved ends up being enjoyable for me.

Honestly, over the last three years I've taken perhaps a month, in total, of
vacation time.  I don't feel in the least burnt out.  A little tired some
days (the joys of having a two-year old child and shiznitz like this openssh
business), but on the whole... not a big deal at all.

   User complaints help steer things to path 2.
 
  Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have
  to re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of
  time).
 
 Absolutely the preferred option.  But would customer complaints help 
 here?  Having been a manager short of cash, I think they would only 
 annoy.  Now when things start to look better, that might be the time 
 to signal our preferences.

You're probably right.  I think, at this point, complaints will do nothing.
More folks need to put their money where their mouth is, get on board, do
the right thing to ensure their OS of choice sticks around, and when the
cash starts to surplus a little more, then I think you have an honest
argument to say listen, we did what we had to do to keep you guys around,
now you do what you have to do to keep us around.  That's the way things
work.

 Meanwhile, Vincent, you do a great job

Thanks!

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread James Sparenberg
On Thu, 2003-09-18 at 12:39, Vincent Danen wrote:
 On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 09:41:34PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:
 
 Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
 re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).
 
Let's try path #4. Go to Scotland and get Vincent cloned. You don't have
to name him Dolly #3, really! And pls. let's not get into that
geek/sheep thing!
   
   Ummm... let's not.  I really don't think the world needs two of me... =)
   
I appreciate Vincent's work and whenever there's a way to help, Vincent,
you know where to find me.
   
   Thanks, Wolfgang.  The sentiments are appreciated.
  
  Thanks from here too for the hard work you do Vincent. Tuning in to the
  list on top of security updates is over and above the call of duty :-)
 
 =)  Unfortunately, there's no one else active on the expert list.. the
 developers are (understandably) taken up on the cooker list, so someone has
 to hang out here with the experts... =)

Vincent,

   Why is it I detect a sense of wry sarcasm in that last word.  *grin*

James



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-18 Thread Vincent Danen
On Thu Sep 18, 2003 at 07:29:36PM -0700, James Sparenberg wrote:

   Thanks from here too for the hard work you do Vincent. Tuning in to the
   list on top of security updates is over and above the call of duty :-)
  
  =)  Unfortunately, there's no one else active on the expert list.. the
  developers are (understandably) taken up on the cooker list, so someone has
  to hang out here with the experts... =)
 
 Vincent,
 
Why is it I detect a sense of wry sarcasm in that last word.  *grin*

Ummm... no sarcasm here... honest.  =)

Seriously, tho, I sometimes think this list is full of experts, then other
times I think all the newbies on the newbie list hang out here just to
question the minority experts, but that could just be me.  =)

Either way is fine and I'm happy to hang out with the experts/newbies alike.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


RE: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Tango Echo
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh 

They did?  How do you recieve notification? I though I
was subscribed to the exploit list, but I haven't
recieved a message in well over 6 months.  Do I need
to resubscribe or are you receiving noitification by
other means?  Obviously, staying up to date on
exploits is a top priority and I'd like to be in the
loop =)

(BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the
exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi
--update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date. 
Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up
downloading the new RPMs
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to
trust DrakeUpdate
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE. 
Their online update
works perfectly every time.

Avi




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:17 AM, James Sparenberg wrote:

On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
RPMs
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
works perfectly every time.
Avi
No not every time.  Try to do an online update for the NVidia drivers.
100% failure on 6 boxes.  As for the problem.  Did you do urpmi.update
-a first?  If your inbox records are behind the servers records then
what it's telling you is correct.
That may be a little unfair to SuSE.  The NVidia drivers are closed 
source and so they can be a challenge for any distribution.  As I 
understand it, people fixed the problem by using the older driver.  But 
my point was not to talk about a specific patch.  It would be also nice 
if Mandrake would send notification about security patches to their 
mailing lists.  In generalshould look into tightening the update 
process when it comes to security patches.  Unlike regular updates that 
may not be very important some security patches can be critical.  Also 
downloading the list of files can be a major pain.  Couple of 15MB 
lists can take awhile, even at IDSL speeds (144K) not to mention 
dial-up speeds.

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
That is another problem.  I found out about it from other 
distribution's security announcements then I checked MandrakeSecure and 
found that they posted the information there.  They should send an 
announcement like this to the mailing lists.

Avi

On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 08:02 AM, Tango Echo wrote:

Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh
They did?  How do you recieve notification? I though I
was subscribed to the exploit list, but I haven't
recieved a message in well over 6 months.  Do I need
to resubscribe or are you receiving noitification by
other means?  Obviously, staying up to date on
exploits is a top priority and I'd like to be in the
loop =)


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


RE: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Tango Echo
That is another problem.  I found out about it from
other
distribution's security announcements then I checked
MandrakeSecure and
found that they posted the information there.  They
should send an
announcement like this to the mailing lists.

Avi



That's strange! I think of individuals that are
familiar with Linux to be more security oriented... 
Ya know, it would be best to either have some type of
notification OR an auto updater like what XP has -
Check for updates, downloaded when read and confirm
install or automatically download and install...

So I guess the answer to my question is: Check
mandrakesecure.net at least once a week  - look on the
right side for Recent Mandrake Linux Advisories?


On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 08:02 AM, Tango
Echo wrote:

 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to
ssh

 They did?  How do you recieve notification? I
though I
 was subscribed to the exploit list, but I haven't
 recieved a message in well over 6 months.  Do I
need
 to resubscribe or are you receiving noitification
by
 other means?  Obviously, staying up to date on
 exploits is a top priority and I'd like to be in
the
 loop =)


be in the
 loop =)


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Eric Fernandez


Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh 
   



(BTW, if you did
 

not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the
   

exploit starts
 

circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi
   

--update
 

--auto-select told me that everything is up to date. 
   

Tried the
 

graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up
   

downloading the new RPMs
 

and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to
   

trust DrakeUpdate
 

and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE. 
   

Their online update
 

works perfectly every time.

Avi

Maybe you should check your mirror. Did you try urpmq -f to check the 
new packages are available in your URPM base ? I guess you did an 
urpmi.update -a too before trying the update ? There was no error message ?

Eric


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Thomas Backlund
Tango Echo kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Keskiviikko 17 Syyskuu 2003 
16:39):
 That is another problem.  I found out about it from

 other

 distribution's security announcements then I checked

 MandrakeSecure and

 found that they posted the information there.  They

 should send an

 announcement like this to the mailing lists.
 
 Avi

 That's strange! I think of individuals that are
 familiar with Linux to be more security oriented...
 Ya know, it would be best to either have some type of
 notification OR an auto updater like what XP has -
 Check for updates, downloaded when read and confirm
 install or automatically download and install...

 So I guess the answer to my question is: Check
 mandrakesecure.net at least once a week  - look on the
 right side for Recent Mandrake Linux Advisories?


Go to:
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/mlist.php

and choose wich varnings you want mailed to you...

-- 
Regards

Thomas


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


RE: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Jack Coates
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 06:39, Tango Echo wrote:
 That is another problem.  I found out about it from
 other
 distribution's security announcements then I checked
 MandrakeSecure and
 found that they posted the information there.  They
 should send an
 announcement like this to the mailing lists.
 
 Avi
 
 
 
 That's strange! I think of individuals that are
 familiar with Linux to be more security oriented... 
 Ya know, it would be best to either have some type of
 notification OR an auto updater like what XP has -
 Check for updates, downloaded when read and confirm
 install or automatically download and install...

man urpmi and man cron.
...
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


RE: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Tango Echo

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 06:39, Tango Echo wrote:
 That is another problem.  I found out about it
from
 other
 distribution's security announcements then I
checked
 MandrakeSecure and
 found that they posted the information there. 
They
 should send an
 announcement like this to the mailing lists.
 
 Avi
 


 That's strange! I think of individuals that are
 familiar with Linux to be more security oriented...
 Ya know, it would be best to either have some type
of
 notification OR an auto updater like what XP has -
 Check for updates, downloaded when read and confirm
 install or automatically download and install...

man urpmi and man cron.
...
--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


dle: A Scientific Venture...


Hi Jack,

Thanks for the reminder... However I should have been
more clear in what I was trying to say.  We can all
agree that Mandrake is known as the newbie's Linux
while of course still remaining a powerful operating
system.  I was suggesting that Mandrake include some
type of update app automatically ready to be
configured in the window manager (etc).  Therefor,
when the newb logs in, they are asked to configure the
update app just like in XP.  While the updates may not
be as severe and critical as they may be in the
Windows world, they are still important.  I guess I
should have anticipated your reply since I AM posting
on the expert list ;)

Tango


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Wolfgang Bornath
Thomas Backlund schrieb am Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:46:10 +0300:

 Tango Echo kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Keskiviikko 17 Syyskuu
 2003 16:39):
 
  So I guess the answer to my question is: Check
  mandrakesecure.net at least once a week  - look on the
  right side for Recent Mandrake Linux Advisories?
 
 Go to:
 http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/mlist.php
 and choose wich varnings you want mailed to you...

...and/or subscribe to the Mandrake Community Newsletter (issued 2x per
month) which contains a Security Updates section.

wobo

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Miark
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:16:07 -0500, Avi Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It would be also nice if Mandrake would send notification about security 
 patches to their mailing lists.  

I this is a good idea, too.

Miark

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Eric Fernandez

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the reminder... However I should have been
more clear in what I was trying to say.  We can all
agree that Mandrake is known as the newbie's Linux
while of course still remaining a powerful operating
system.  I was suggesting that Mandrake include some
type of update app automatically ready to be
configured in the window manager (etc).  Therefor,
when the newb logs in, they are asked to configure the
update app just like in XP.  While the updates may not
be as severe and critical as they may be in the
Windows world, they are still important.  I guess I
should have anticipated your reply since I AM posting
on the expert list ;)
Tango

I proposed that idea on the cooker ML after release of 9.1. The idea was 
to perform an automatic urpmi.update command on a medium if the install 
of a package failed with error message you may have to update your 
medium. Apparently it has not been implemented yet, but this could be a 
good idea to mdernise rpmdrake with such options :
- an automatic update of media at specific times
- an automatic update in case of install failure
I think media sources needs to be modernised indeed.

Eric


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Brant Fitzsimmons
Avi Schwartz wrote:
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:17 AM, James Sparenberg wrote:

On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:

Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
and urpmi?
This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
works perfectly every time.
Avi


No not every time.  Try to do an online update for the NVidia drivers.
100% failure on 6 boxes.  As for the problem.  Did you do urpmi.update
-a first?  If your inbox records are behind the servers records then
what it's telling you is correct.
That may be a little unfair to SuSE.  The NVidia drivers are closed 
source and so they can be a challenge for any distribution.  As I 
understand it, people fixed the problem by using the older driver.  But 
my point was not to talk about a specific patch.  It would be also nice 
if Mandrake would send notification about security patches to their 
mailing lists.  In generalshould look into tightening the update process 
when it comes to security patches.  Unlike regular updates that may not 
be very important some security patches can be critical.  Also 
downloading the list of files can be a major pain.  Couple of 15MB lists 
can take awhile, even at IDSL speeds (144K) not to mention dial-up speeds.

Avi
They do announce security patches.

http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/mlist.php

As far as the list of files-- goes go to:

http://www.zarb.org/~nanardon/

and set up an update source that uses rsync instead of ftp or http. Then 
when you run urpmi.update -a it will download only the differences in 
the list instead of the whole list.

--
Brant Fitzsimmons
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/
AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk
KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client
Uptime:
 12:25:01 up 10 days, 23:41,  1 user,  load average: 0.08, 0.25, 0.18
___
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being
self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread James Sparenberg
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 06:16, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 12:17 AM, James Sparenberg wrote:
 
  On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:
  Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
  not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
  circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
  --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
  graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
  RPMs
  and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
  and urpmi?
 
  This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
  works perfectly every time.
 
  Avi
 
  No not every time.  Try to do an online update for the NVidia drivers.
  100% failure on 6 boxes.  As for the problem.  Did you do urpmi.update
  -a first?  If your inbox records are behind the servers records then
  what it's telling you is correct.
 
 
 That may be a little unfair to SuSE.  The NVidia drivers are closed 
 source and so they can be a challenge for any distribution.  As I 
 understand it, people fixed the problem by using the older driver.  But 
 my point was not to talk about a specific patch.  It would be also nice 
 if Mandrake would send notification about security patches to their 
 mailing lists.  In generalshould look into tightening the update 
 process when it comes to security patches.  Unlike regular updates that 
 may not be very important some security patches can be critical.  Also 
 downloading the list of files can be a major pain.  Couple of 15MB 
 lists can take awhile, even at IDSL speeds (144K) not to mention 
 dial-up speeds.
 
 Avi

Two points here.  1.  use the synthesis.hdlist.cz  instead of hdlist.cz
(huge diff in size) 2.  Under Configuration-other in your menu you'll
find Discover Custom Services If you buy a boxed set or are a club
member you can setup auto notification (via e-mail) and even auto update
of a box.

james
 
 
 
 __
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 06:02:22AM -0700, Tango Echo wrote:

 They did?  How do you recieve notification? I though I
 was subscribed to the exploit list, but I haven't
 recieved a message in well over 6 months.  Do I need
 to resubscribe or are you receiving noitification by
 other means?  Obviously, staying up to date on
 exploits is a top priority and I'd like to be in the
 loop =)

The exploit list is for discussing exploits... the announce list is for
announcements.  You at least want to be subscribed to the latter.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 08:19:45AM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

 That is another problem.  I found out about it from other 
 distribution's security announcements then I checked MandrakeSecure and 
 found that they posted the information there.  They should send an 
 announcement like this to the mailing lists.

The only problem is that you're not subscribed to the right mailing list.
Subscribe to the announce list (via MandrakeSecure, the very site you were
on).

Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay attention
to one of the many:

- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- full-disclosure ml
- RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
- MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
- MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)

And no, announcements will not be going to this list or any other list other
than the announce list.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Charles A Edwards
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:03:59 -0600
Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The only problem is that you're not subscribed to the right mailing
 list. Subscribe to the announce list (via MandrakeSecure, the very
 site you were on).

It is all documented on the mailing list page

Security holes are fixed as soon as possible when they are discovered.
Most of the new packages can easily be upgraded just by running
``MandrakeUpdate'' regularly. 

All security-related mailing-lists are listed at:
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/mlist.php;

Which in turn discloses this:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] is a read-only list which will inform you
of new updates (security, bugfix, etc.) for all supported Mandrake Linux
distributions.

One can subscribe to it in the same manner as this list.


Charles

-- 
Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.
-- Vince Lombardi, football coach
-
Mandrake Linux 9.2 on PurpleDragon
Kernel-2.4.22-9mdkenterprise http://www.eslrahc.com
-




pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 11:38 AM, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote:

Avi Schwartz wrote:

Also downloading the list of files can be a major pain.  Couple of 
15MB lists can take awhile, even at IDSL speeds (144K) not to mention 
dial-up speeds.
Avi
and set up an update source that uses rsync instead of ftp or http. 
Then when you run urpmi.update -a it will download only the 
differences in the list instead of the whole list.

That's great, I wasn't aware that there are sites allowing rsync.

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 01:03 PM, Vincent Danen wrote:

On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 08:19:45AM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

That is another problem.  I found out about it from other
distribution's security announcements then I checked MandrakeSecure 
and
found that they posted the information there.  They should send an
announcement like this to the mailing lists.
The only problem is that you're not subscribed to the right mailing 
list.
Subscribe to the announce list (via MandrakeSecure, the very site you 
were
on).

Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay 
attention
to one of the many:

- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- full-disclosure ml
- RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
- MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
- MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
And no, announcements will not be going to this list or any other list 
other
than the announce list.

I appreciate the information and I just subscribed to the announce 
list.  However, the same way I didn't know about the 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] list I am sure there are many others that 
are not aware of it.  If there is a bug that has a potential of 
becoming a way to break into a computer I feel that all mailing list be 
notified of it to minimize the potential damage.  Mandrake may have 
many newbies (I hope you do, you need the business) which are new to 
Linux and may need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small 
icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates 
available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for 
updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very 
nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Anne Wilson
On Wednesday 17 Sep 2003 7:52 pm, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 I appreciate the information and I just subscribed to the announce
 list.  However, the same way I didn't know about the
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] list I am sure there are many others
 that are not aware of it.  If there is a bug that has a potential
 of becoming a way to break into a computer I feel that all mailing
 list be notified of it to minimize the potential damage.  Mandrake
 may have many newbies (I hope you do, you need the business) which
 are new to Linux and may need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE
 has is a small icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when
 there are updates available.  Click on it and you get a menu
 allowing you to check for updates, show the last update log or
 start the update process.  very nice, clean and can help users keep
 their system safe.

I'm sure that somewhere I was asked if I wanted to subscribe to 
announce, when I first installed.  On my own box run Mandrake Update 
weekly, but if I had a server I would be doing it every day.

Anne
-- 
Registered Linux User No.293302
Have you visited http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org yet?


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 01:03 PM, Vincent Danen wrote:

Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay 
attention
to one of the many:

- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- full-disclosure ml
- RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
- MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
- MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
As I said, I did pay attention since I knew about it before Mandrake 
announced it.

Anyway, how do you subscribe to the RSS feed?  What is the url?

Thanks,
Avi

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 01:52:09PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

 Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay 
 attention
 to one of the many:
 
 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - full-disclosure ml
 - RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
 - MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
 - MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
 
 And no, announcements will not be going to this list or any other list 
 other
 than the announce list.
 
 I appreciate the information and I just subscribed to the announce 
 list.  However, the same way I didn't know about the 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] list I am sure there are many others that 
 are not aware of it.  If there is a bug that has a potential of 
 becoming a way to break into a computer I feel that all mailing list be 
 notified of it to minimize the potential damage.  Mandrake may have 
 many newbies (I hope you do, you need the business) which are new to 
 Linux and may need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small 

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  I don't like the idea of spamming all of the
lists (and while it might not be considered spam, why do it when there is
one list that covers them all?).  It's a matter of education.  If someone
gets on the newbie or expert list, they've likely visited the website.
There is a link to the MandrakeSecure lists, clearly marked for
security-related lists, on the mandrakelinux.com page where you can
subscribe to the other lists.  How difficult is it to subscribe to these
other lists?  No, one other list?

Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign up for
the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the same way,
they may skip those messages we put on every single list and then what?

Also, FWIW, if you sign up for MandrakeOnline, you'll get alerts sent to
your inbox.

 icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates 
 available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for 
 updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very 
 nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.

I agree, this would be nice and hopefully this is something that can be done
for 9.3 or 10.0.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Steffen Barszus
Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2003 21:07 schrieb Vincent Danen:

 Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
 up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
 same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
 and then what?

Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 

Steffen

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Thomas Backlund
Vincent Danen kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Keskiviikko 17 Syyskuu 2003 
22:07):
 On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 01:52:09PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:
  Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay
  attention
  to one of the many:
  
  - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  - full-disclosure ml
  - RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
  - MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
  - MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
  
  And no, announcements will not be going to this list or any other list
  other
  than the announce list.
 
  I appreciate the information and I just subscribed to the announce
  list.  However, the same way I didn't know about the
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] list I am sure there are many others that
  are not aware of it.  If there is a bug that has a potential of
  becoming a way to break into a computer I feel that all mailing list be
  notified of it to minimize the potential damage.  Mandrake may have
  many newbies (I hope you do, you need the business) which are new to
  Linux and may need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small

 I'm sorry, but I disagree.  I don't like the idea of spamming all of the
 lists (and while it might not be considered spam, why do it when there is
 one list that covers them all?).  It's a matter of education.  If someone
 gets on the newbie or expert list, they've likely visited the website.
 There is a link to the MandrakeSecure lists, clearly marked for
 security-related lists, on the mandrakelinux.com page where you can
 subscribe to the other lists.  How difficult is it to subscribe to these
 other lists?  No, one other list?

 Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign up for
 the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the same way,
 they may skip those messages we put on every single list and then what?

 Also, FWIW, if you sign up for MandrakeOnline, you'll get alerts sent to
 your inbox.

  icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates
  available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for
  updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very
  nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.

 I agree, this would be nice and hopefully this is something that can be
 done for 9.3 or 10.0.

AFAIK in contribs there is a package started with the aim of doing this:
mdk-check-update-*

I haven't tested it myself so I can't say if it works... 

-- 
Regards

Thomas


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Jack Coates
Steffen Barszus wrote:

Am Mittwoch, 17. September 2003 21:07 schrieb Vincent Danen:


Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
and then what?


Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 

Steffen
I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from mandrakesecure, once from 
Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every other Linux 
distributor out there, in addition to the original discovery argument.

Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
minions :-)
--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle.Org: Integrating Value, Simians, and Pasta Since 1996.


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 02:03:48PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

 Advisories go out in many forms; I can't help it if you don't pay 
 attention
 to one of the many:
 
 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - full-disclosure ml
 - RSS feed from MandrakeSecure
 - MandrakeSecure website (on nearly every single page)
 - MandrakeClub (latest advisory always on the front page)
 
 As I said, I did pay attention since I knew about it before Mandrake 
 announced it.

That wasn't your point tho, was it?  You weren't aware of Mandrake's
announcements.  That I believe was the point.

 Anyway, how do you subscribe to the RSS feed?  What is the url?

http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/advisories/rss.php IIRC.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Rolf Pedersen


Avi Schwartz wrote:

[..]
need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small icon in the 
KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates available.  
Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for updates, show 
the last update log or start the update process.  very nice, clean and 
can help users keep their system safe.

Avi
In cooker contrib/, there is such an app that has been recently written, 
mutray:

MUTray sits in the KDE system tray, and displays a notification when there
are new updates.  It can then install the packages with urpmi.
I think the binary will work in 9.1 or rebuild the 
contrib/SRPMS/mutray-0.3-2mdk.src.rpm package.

Rolf


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 12:43:05PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:

 Problem is people don't take security seriously, so they don't sign
 up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to combat that... in the
 same way, they may skip those messages we put on every single list
 and then what?
 
 
 Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists !!!Getting it four 
 times with an interest in security even five times ? No way. I inform 
 me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi update in cron and looking 
 sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough. Even on servers. 
 
 Steffen
 
 I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from mandrakesecure, once from 
 Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every other Linux 
 distributor out there, in addition to the original discovery argument.
 
 Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
 Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
 minions :-)

I think all things considered, we aren't that slow.  If you're defining slow
by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it by a few days, shame on
me.

I think we're fairly close to the other big players when it comes to the big
updates.

And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ about a half dozen
security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to worry about compiling for a
number of different versions.  Contrary to popular opinion, it *does* take
time to properly compile and test packages on each supported platform.

We also don't run our own server for updates so we have to wait for
mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce it that minute, we have
to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get flooded with you
announced it so where is it? messages, just due to the mirroring process.

With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty damn speedy.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Lee Wiggers
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:20:36 -0700
Rolf Pedersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 Avi Schwartz wrote:
  
 [..]
  need this extra help.  One nice touch SuSE has is a small icon
  in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates
  available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check
  for updates, show the last update log or start the update
  process.  very nice, clean and can help users keep their system
  safe.
  
  Avi
 
 In cooker contrib/, there is such an app that has been recently
 written, mutray:
 
 MUTray sits in the KDE system tray, and displays a notification
 when there are new updates.  It can then install the packages with
 urpmi.
 
 I think the binary will work in 9.1 or rebuild the 
 contrib/SRPMS/mutray-0.3-2mdk.src.rpm package.
 
 Rolf
 
 
 

Sylpheed-Claws has such a plug-in to tell me when I have mail. 
Scared me to death the first time everything flashed.  Thought kde
had suffered a cardiac thing.

I unplugged it.  I always have new mail.

Lee



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Dick Gevers
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:25:04 +0300, Thomas Backlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about
Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?:

Vincent Danen kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Keskiviikko 17 Syyskuu
2003 22:07):

{ Avi Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] }

  icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates
  available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for
  updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very
  nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.

 I agree, this would be nice and hopefully this is something that can be
 done for 9.3 or 10.0.

AFAIK in contribs there is a package started with the aim of doing this:
mdk-check-update-*

I haven't tested it myself so I can't say if it works... 


With all due respect to you all, but I don`t like the idea one bit. It means
Mandrakesoft has a line into my taskbar which I did not ask for. Just as I
don`t like Microsoft working interactively with my computer, or other
adware/spyware calling home when I still used Windows, I wouldn`t like
Mandrakesoft to have a thread into any corner of my boxes. If it`s an
optional package,  fine I won`t use it. If it comes built in the distro I
will disable it, remove it or whatever it takes to avoid it. It goes against
my sense of privacy. Maybe not to that of others, very well, but I don`t
like the idea.

Just my EUR 0.02.

Ciao,
=Dick Gevers=


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Ricardo (Tru64 User)
Are you serious?? One man operation??
What will happen if/when the heat stroke gets you?

Wandering.

--- Vincent Danen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 12:43:05PM -0700, Jack Coates
 wrote:
 
  Problem is people don't take security seriously,
 so they don't sign
  up for the list.  There isn't much we can do to
 combat that... in the
  same way, they may skip those messages we put on
 every single list
  and then what?
  
  
  Yep agree. It would be a horror to spam the lists
 !!!Getting it four 
  times with an interest in security even five
 times ? No way. I inform 
  me on what i'm interested in. running urpmi
 update in cron and looking 
  sometimes on mandrakesecure should be enough.
 Even on servers. 
  
  Steffen
  
  I'm on Bugtraq -- I get the alert once from
 mandrakesecure, once from 
  Mandrake's message to bugtraq, and once from every
 other Linux 
  distributor out there, in addition to the original
 discovery argument.
  
  Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates
 compared to RH and 
  Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they
 hire Vincent some 
  minions :-)
 
 I think all things considered, we aren't that slow. 
 If you're defining slow
 by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it
 by a few days, shame on
 me.
 
 I think we're fairly close to the other big players
 when it comes to the big
 updates.
 
 And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ
 about a half dozen
 security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to
 worry about compiling for a
 number of different versions.  Contrary to popular
 opinion, it *does* take
 time to properly compile and test packages on each
 supported platform.
 
 We also don't run our own server for updates so we
 have to wait for
 mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce
 it that minute, we have
 to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get
 flooded with you
 announced it so where is it? messages, just due to
 the mirroring process.
 
 With all that in mind, I think this one-man
 operation is pretty damn speedy.
 
 -- 
 MandrakeSoft Security;
 http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
 Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
 lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg
 --import
 {FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5
 FE6F 2AFD}
 
 

 ATTACHMENT part 2 application/pgp-signature 



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Rolf Pedersen


Dick Gevers wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:25:04 +0300, Thomas Backlund [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about
Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?:

Vincent Danen kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika Keskiviikko 17 Syyskuu
2003 22:07):


{ Avi Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] }


icon in the KDE task bar which changes color when there are updates
available.  Click on it and you get a menu allowing you to check for
updates, show the last update log or start the update process.  very
nice, clean and can help users keep their system safe.
I agree, this would be nice and hopefully this is something that can be
done for 9.3 or 10.0.
AFAIK in contribs there is a package started with the aim of doing this:
mdk-check-update-*
I haven't tested it myself so I can't say if it works... 


With all due respect to you all, but I don`t like the idea one bit. It means
Mandrakesoft has a line into my taskbar which I did not ask for. Just as I
I don't think that's what it means.  What it means is a cron job runs 
urpmi.update to check if the update files on the mirror have changed 
and, if so, notify the user that a new update is available.  This is no 
more revealing of your private information than running MandrakeUpdate 
in attended mode.

Rolf

don`t like Microsoft working interactively with my computer, or other
adware/spyware calling home when I still used Windows, I wouldn`t like
Mandrakesoft to have a thread into any corner of my boxes. If it`s an
optional package,  fine I won`t use it. If it comes built in the distro I
will disable it, remove it or whatever it takes to avoid it. It goes against
my sense of privacy. Maybe not to that of others, very well, but I don`t
like the idea.
Just my EUR 0.02.

Ciao,
=Dick Gevers=




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread kwan


 With all due respect to you all, but I don`t like the idea one bit. It
 means
 Mandrakesoft has a line into my taskbar which I did not ask for. Just as I
 don`t like Microsoft working interactively with my computer, or other
 adware/spyware calling home when I still used Windows, I wouldn`t like
 Mandrakesoft to have a thread into any corner of my boxes. If it`s an
 optional package,  fine I won`t use it. If it comes built in the distro I
 will disable it, remove it or whatever it takes to avoid it. It goes
 against
 my sense of privacy. Maybe not to that of others, very well, but I don`t
 like the idea.

I've been looking at many of the auto-update features for different
distros. RedHat keeps a central database of installed packages if you use
their up2date mechanism, and this would probably irk many users. However,
most of the others seem to be passive updaters. I.e., they pull down a
list of packages and compare them locally *without* sending any
information to a central database. In any case, Mandrake's really cool
distributed update system would likely preclude an update mechanism that
needed a single database.

I would like to see a centralized management console for Mandrake systems.
The designated management station could maintain a list of updates as some
sort of server; the clients (whether local on on the LAN or 'Net) could
then query the central server and update the local package database. This
would be useful because it allows an operator to get an idea of a system's
patch status without needing the machine to be online. The central server
need not be an official site, but could be another machine on the LAN that
you control.

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Jack Coates
Vincent Danen wrote:

On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 12:43:05PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:
...

Mandrake is typically pretty slow about updates compared to RH and 
Gentoo, but hopefully that'll change if/when they hire Vincent some 
minions :-)


I think all things considered, we aren't that slow.  If you're defining slow
by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it by a few days, shame on
me.
I think we're fairly close to the other big players when it comes to the big
updates.
And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ about a half dozen
security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to worry about compiling for a
number of different versions.  Contrary to popular opinion, it *does* take
time to properly compile and test packages on each supported platform.
We also don't run our own server for updates so we have to wait for
mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce it that minute, we have
to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get flooded with you
announced it so where is it? messages, just due to the mirroring process.
With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty damn speedy.

absolutely, but... let's step into the managerial mind for a little while:

fact: Vincent is working really hard, doing a job that takes six people 
at other companies. He's typically a few hours behind those other 
companies, but the users don't complain much. Vincent says he needs help 
when we get some money.

path 1: Ignore the situation until Vincent flames out, then hire some 
starry-eyed outsider who thinks he can fix everything.

path 2: When the money starts coming in again, hire some college kids to 
help out. Rinse and repeat until a couple of them stick on.

User complaints help steer things to path 2.
--
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle.Org: Integrating Value, Simians, and Pasta Since 1996.

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Wednesday, September 17, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Vincent Danen wrote:

I think all things considered, we aren't that slow.  If you're 
defining slow
by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it by a few days, 
shame on
me.

I think we're fairly close to the other big players when it comes to 
the big
updates.

And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ about a half dozen
security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to worry about compiling 
for a
number of different versions.  Contrary to popular opinion, it *does* 
take
time to properly compile and test packages on each supported platform.

We also don't run our own server for updates so we have to wait for
mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce it that minute, 
we have
to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get flooded with you
announced it so where is it? messages, just due to the mirroring 
process.

With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty damn 
speedy.

My hat's off to you.  One person?  This is impressive.

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Dick Gevers
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 14:14:27 -0700, Rolf Pedersen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a
pain in the ...?:

 It means Mandrakesoft has a line into my taskbar which I did not ask for.

I don't think that's what it means.  What it means is a cron job runs 
urpmi.update to check if the update files on the mirror have changed 
and, if so, notify the user that a new update is available.  This is no 
more revealing of your private information than running MandrakeUpdate 
in attended mode.

Please forgive me for not understanding that immediately. That makes it
quite clear, thank you. 

Regards,
=Dick Gevers=

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Encryption is an envelope - the contents are private.

iD8DBQE/aNp2wC/zk+cxEdMRAgQBAKCSiSSzCBR41sM5EVDimJFWJwUctACg4gno
pOok/p9/GH6zZDq1jIJzFD0=
=7Mvz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 02:07:26PM -0700, Ricardo (Tru64 User) wrote:

 Are you serious?? One man operation??
 What will happen if/when the heat stroke gets you?
 
 Wandering.

What heat stroke?

Anyways, there is a backup person in case I do get run over, drowned, beat
by my wife, etc. so no worries there.. that is taken care of.  Should I
perish, updates will continue to roll out.

Other than the secteam (for whom I am extremely grateful as they make
testing that much easier), there is just me for the management of stuff.
Which is ok... the current load is a piece of cake compared to what I was
dealing with prior to the EOL policy coming into play.  =)


-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Wed Sep 17, 2003 at 02:42:25PM -0700, Jack Coates wrote:

 I think all things considered, we aren't that slow.  If you're defining 
 slow
 by a few hours, shame on you, if you're defining it by a few days, shame on
 me.
 
 I think we're fairly close to the other big players when it comes to the 
 big
 updates.
 
 And, also, keep in mind that RH and SuSE both employ about a half dozen
 security folks and, IIRC, gentoo doesn't have to worry about compiling for 
 a
 number of different versions.  Contrary to popular opinion, it *does* take
 time to properly compile and test packages on each supported platform.
 
 We also don't run our own server for updates so we have to wait for
 mirroring... RH can put the packages up and announce it that minute, we 
 have
 to wait at least 1-2hrs before announcing or I get flooded with you
 announced it so where is it? messages, just due to the mirroring process.
 
 With all that in mind, I think this one-man operation is pretty damn 
 speedy.
 
 absolutely, but... let's step into the managerial mind for a little while:

Oh no... not *that* mind... =)

 fact: Vincent is working really hard, doing a job that takes six people 
 at other companies. He's typically a few hours behind those other 
 companies, but the users don't complain much. Vincent says he needs help 
 when we get some money.

Well, let's put this properly.  Vincent doesn't *need* help.  Vincent would
like help.  Vincent's wife would like help.  But Vincent is a trooper and
can do the job he is paid to do, no question.

 path 1: Ignore the situation until Vincent flames out, then hire some 
 starry-eyed outsider who thinks he can fix everything.

/me shudders

 path 2: When the money starts coming in again, hire some college kids to 
 help out. Rinse and repeat until a couple of them stick on.

/me shudders again

 User complaints help steer things to path 2.

Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Wolfgang Bornath
Vincent Danen schrieb am Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:14:07 -0600:

 Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
 re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).
 
Let's try path #4. Go to Scotland and get Vincent cloned. You don't have
to name him Dolly #3, really! And pls. let's not get into that
geek/sheep thing!

I appreciate Vincent's work and whenever there's a way to help, Vincent,
you know where to find me.

wobo

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Vincent Danen
On Thu Sep 18, 2003 at 02:01:32AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:

  Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
  re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).
  
 Let's try path #4. Go to Scotland and get Vincent cloned. You don't have
 to name him Dolly #3, really! And pls. let's not get into that
 geek/sheep thing!

Ummm... let's not.  I really don't think the world needs two of me... =)

 I appreciate Vincent's work and whenever there's a way to help, Vincent,
 you know where to find me.

Thanks, Wolfgang.  The sentiments are appreciated.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Bill Mullen
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Eric Fernandez wrote:

 I proposed that idea on the cooker ML after release of 9.1. The idea was
 to perform an automatic urpmi.update command on a medium if the install
 of a package failed with error message you may have to update your
 medium.

I don't think that this is as simple a solution as it may appear, as the
reason that the word may is included in that error message (which BTW
actually reads, You may need to update your urpmi database) is that an
out-of-date urpmi database is *not* the only possible source of the error
- and isn't even necessarily the most likely one, in my experience.

The error message is returned whenever the contents of urpmi's RPM cache
directory (/var/cache/urpmi/rpms/) does not match what urpmi expects to
see there, once any downloading and/or copying into it has completed. This
is quite often merely due to one or more of the download attempts having
failed to establish a connection to the target mirror; for example, if the
mirror is a busy one, and has reached its limit of permitted simultaneous
users, any further connection attempts (by anyone) to it will fail, until
one of the currently-in-use ones completes. No connect = no d/l = error.

The problem, of course, is that urpmi has no idea *why* the RPM isn't in
the cache dir - it just knows that it's amongst the missing. The database
itself could exactly reflect the available RPMs, yet the error occurs. :(

This happens rather a lot IMO with urpmi's default d/l client, curl, which 
does not make more than one attempt to get a file. For this reason, I use 
the --wget switch with both urpmi and urpmi.update, to force it to use 
wget in lieu of curl. I even have aliases set up in /etc/bashrc for this:

alias urpmi='/usr/sbin/urpmi --wget'
alias uu='/usr/sbin/urpmi.update --wget -a'
alias ua='/usr/sbin/urpmi --wget --auto-select'

Typing uuua gets all my sources synced, and picks out the updates. I 
purposely do not use the --auto switch with the latter, as I prefer to 
see exactly which packages are selected before I allow it to proceed. ;)

-- 
Bill Mullen   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   MA, USA   RLU #270075   MDK 8.1  9.0
Listen, here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in your first
half hour at the table, then you *are* the sucker. - Mike McDermott

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Jack Coates
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 16:14, Vincent Danen wrote:
...
  path 1: Ignore the situation until Vincent flames out, then hire some 
  starry-eyed outsider who thinks he can fix everything.
 
 /me shudders
 
  path 2: When the money starts coming in again, hire some college kids to 
  help out. Rinse and repeat until a couple of them stick on.
 
 /me shudders again
 
  User complaints help steer things to path 2.
 
 Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
 re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).

It's certainly true that competent people cost a lot less than they did
last year; dang near cheap as college kids now. I think I'd better stop
typing before I rhapsodize too much about how well the economy is
recovering.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Jack Coates
On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 17:34, Vincent Danen wrote:
 On Thu Sep 18, 2003 at 02:01:32AM +0200, Wolfgang Bornath wrote:
 
   Let's try path #3.  Get someone competent so Vincent doesn't have to
   re-train multiple people (thus wasting enormous amounts of time).
   
  Let's try path #4. Go to Scotland and get Vincent cloned. You don't have
  to name him Dolly #3, really! And pls. let's not get into that
  geek/sheep thing!
 
 Ummm... let's not.  I really don't think the world needs two of me... =)
 
  I appreciate Vincent's work and whenever there's a way to help, Vincent,
  you know where to find me.
 
 Thanks, Wolfgang.  The sentiments are appreciated.

Thanks from here too for the hard work you do Vincent. Tuning in to the
list on top of security updates is over and above the call of duty :-)
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-17 Thread Eric Huff
 Sylpheed-Claws has such a plug-in to tell me when I have mail. 
 Scared me to death the first time everything flashed.  Thought kde
 had suffered a cardiac thing.

I got a good chuckle out of your post.

 I unplugged it.  I always have new mail.

Hey, so do i  :)

-- 
Mandrake HowTo's  More:  http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Avi Schwartz
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs 
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate 
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
works perfectly every time.

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Brant Fitzsimmons
Avi Schwartz wrote:
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did not 
update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs 
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate 
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
works perfectly every time.

Avi
Your success with Mandrake Update depends on the mirror you have setup 
as your update source.  Mandrake just released the updated packages and 
it takes time for all of the update mirrors to sync with Mandrake's 
server.  You may need to give your mirror some time to actually get the 
updates from the mothership.  Once that is done you should be able to 
update without a hitch.  I just did and it went as smooth as usual.

Also, you need to run urpmi.update -a first to make sure your box 
knows that there are updates available.  Then run urpmi -v --updates 
--auto-select or urpmi -v --auto-select to actually download and 
install the updates.

--
Brant Fitzsimmons
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Linux user #322847 | Linux machine #207465 | http://counter.li.org/
AMD Duron 1.3GHz | Mandrake 9.1 | Kernel 2.4.21-0.16mm-mdk
KDE 3.1.3 | Mozilla 1.4 Mail Client
Uptime:
 23:30:00 up 10 days, 10:46,  1 user,  load average: 0.36, 0.16, 0.11
___
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being
self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:38 PM, Brant Fitzsimmons wrote:

Avi Schwartz wrote:
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
RPMs and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust 
DrakeUpdate and urpmi?
This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
works perfectly every time.
Avi
Your success with Mandrake Update depends on the mirror you have setup 
as your update source.  Mandrake just released the updated packages 
and it takes time for all of the update mirrors to sync with 
Mandrake's server.  You may need to give your mirror some time to 
actually get the updates from the mothership.  Once that is done you 
should be able to update without a hitch.  I just did and it went as 
smooth as usual.

Also, you need to run urpmi.update -a first to make sure your box 
knows that there are updates available.  Then run urpmi -v --updates 
--auto-select or urpmi -v --auto-select to actually download and 
install the updates.
I did urpmi.update -a first, but I guess I need to look for better 
mirrors.  Is there a way to find out which mirrors are updated more 
frequently?

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread bascule
it may be that like me you have installed some package via cooker that might 
have required a later openssh? i found i had 3.6.1p2-4 and therefore 
3.6.1p2-1.1 was seen as not an upgrade, i'm hopefull that there will a 
further cooker package with the needed patch becasue when i went to uninstall 
openssh and then insatll the upgrade i had problems, but you should try that 
too since my problems are hopefully local to me

bascule

On Wednesday 17 Sep 2003 4:05 am, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
 not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
 circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
 --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
 graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs
 and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
 and urpmi?

 This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
 works perfectly every time.

 Avi

-- 
A man could go far, knowing his rights like you do, said Granny.
But right now he should go home.
(Wyrd Sisters)


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Vincent Danen
On Tue Sep 16, 2003 at 10:05:18PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
 not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
 circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
 --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
 graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs 
 and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate 
 and urpmi?
 
 This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
 works perfectly every time.

Did you do urpmi.update -a first?

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Vincent Danen
On Tue Sep 16, 2003 at 10:45:07PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
 not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
 circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
 --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
 graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
 RPMs and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust 
 DrakeUpdate and urpmi?
 This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
 works perfectly every time.
 Avi
 
 Your success with Mandrake Update depends on the mirror you have setup 
 as your update source.  Mandrake just released the updated packages 
 and it takes time for all of the update mirrors to sync with 
 Mandrake's server.  You may need to give your mirror some time to 
 actually get the updates from the mothership.  Once that is done you 
 should be able to update without a hitch.  I just did and it went as 
 smooth as usual.
 
 Also, you need to run urpmi.update -a first to make sure your box 
 knows that there are updates available.  Then run urpmi -v --updates 
 --auto-select or urpmi -v --auto-select to actually download and 
 install the updates.
 
 I did urpmi.update -a first, but I guess I need to look for better 
 mirrors.  Is there a way to find out which mirrors are updated more 
 frequently?

http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/ftp.php

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}



pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:52 PM, Vincent Danen wrote:

On Tue Sep 16, 2003 at 10:45:07PM -0500, Avi Schwartz wrote:

Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new
RPMs and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust
DrakeUpdate and urpmi?
This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
works perfectly every time.
Avi
Your success with Mandrake Update depends on the mirror you have 
setup
as your update source.  Mandrake just released the updated packages
and it takes time for all of the update mirrors to sync with
Mandrake's server.  You may need to give your mirror some time to
actually get the updates from the mothership.  Once that is done you
should be able to update without a hitch.  I just did and it went as
smooth as usual.

Also, you need to run urpmi.update -a first to make sure your box
knows that there are updates available.  Then run urpmi -v --updates
--auto-select or urpmi -v --auto-select to actually download and
install the updates.
I did urpmi.update -a first, but I guess I need to look for better
mirrors.  Is there a way to find out which mirrors are updated more
frequently?
http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/ftp.php

Perfect.  Thanks you!

Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Avi Schwartz
I had 3.6.1p1 installed, but as other have pointed out, I was probably 
using a mirror that was not updated yet.

Avi

On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:48 PM, bascule wrote:

it may be that like me you have installed some package via cooker that 
might
have required a later openssh? i found i had 3.6.1p2-4 and therefore
3.6.1p2-1.1 was seen as not an upgrade, i'm hopefull that there will a
further cooker package with the needed patch becasue when i went to 
uninstall
openssh and then insatll the upgrade i had problems, but you should 
try that
too since my problems are hopefully local to me

bascule

On Wednesday 17 Sep 2003 4:05 am, Avi Schwartz wrote:
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
RPMs
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
works perfectly every time.
Avi


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Jack Coates
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
 not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
 circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
 --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
 graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs 
 and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate 
 and urpmi?
 
 This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
 works perfectly every time.
 
 Avi
 

where are you physically? Mandrake's mirrors in the Pacific Standard
Time Zone tend to be pretty far behind.
-- 
Jack Coates
Monkeynoodle: A Scientific Venture...


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread Avi Schwartz
On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 11:27 PM, Jack Coates wrote:

On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:
Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did
not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts
circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update
--auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the
graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new 
RPMs
and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate
and urpmi?

This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update
works perfectly every time.
Avi

where are you physically? Mandrake's mirrors in the Pacific Standard
Time Zone tend to be pretty far behind.
Chicago, CST.

Avi



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] Why is urpmi such a pain in the ...?

2003-09-16 Thread James Sparenberg
On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 20:05, Avi Schwartz wrote:
 Today, Mandrake has issued a security update to ssh (BTW, if you did 
 not update it yet, you better do it soon, before the exploit starts 
 circulating).  I updated all the sources but urpmi --update 
 --auto-select told me that everything is up to date.  Tried the 
 graphical updater, the same story.  I ended up downloading the new RPMs 
 and installing them manually.  How am I supposed to trust DrakeUpdate 
 and urpmi?
 
 This is something Mandrake can learn from SuSE.  Their online update 
 works perfectly every time.
 
 Avi

No not every time.  Try to do an online update for the NVidia drivers. 
100% failure on 6 boxes.  As for the problem.  Did you do urpmi.update
-a first?  If your inbox records are behind the servers records then
what it's telling you is correct.

James

 
 
 
 __
 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
 Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why doesn't cat print content of a file to standard output if the content is only a number ?

2003-09-12 Thread vatbier
ML9.1 here.
When I type in a Konsole
 cat /var/lock/subsys/dm
no output is generated (dm containing the pid number of process prefdm)
to the Konsole.
But when I type
 kill `cat /var/lock/subsys/dm
the process is effectively killed.

I found this command in /etc/rc.d/init.d/dm:
 stop)
gprintf Stopping display manager: 
if [ -r /var/lock/subsys/dm ]; then
kill `cat /var/lock/subsys/dm`  /dev/null 21


It took me a while to figure out that cat wouldn't print the content
of a file to the Konsole(standard output) if that content consist only
of a number. If that number is followed by a space in that file cat
shows number  on the Konsole.
But if I type cat /var/lock/subsys/dm  test.txt the number is
copied to test.txt. And in the command kill `cat /var/lock/subsys/dm
the number is correctly presented to the kill command.

Why this behaviour for cat ? info cat gives me no clue.
Is this a bug of cat or some sort of feature ?

vatbier

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] Why doesn't msec set directory permissions?

2003-07-28 Thread Avi Schwartz
I asked this question on the newbie side but received no replies.  
Maybe it is a question for the experts...

Because the machine in question will end being a server connected 24x7 
to the Internet, I set its security level to higher (4).  However, I 
want to change the privileges for /usr/share/doc to be world browsable 
and readable.  I used drakeperm to set the directory permissions and 
when I look at /etc/security/msec/perm.local I see the following line:

/usr/share/doc/adm.adm755

I then ran msec but when I checked the permissions on the directory I 
still see:

drwxr-x--- 297 admadm

In /var/log/messages I do see that msec is reading the perm.local file.

Any idea why is msec ignoring my permissions?

Thanks,
Avi

Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] why?

2003-07-04 Thread David Hlácik
/sbin/service: line 122: 31146 Segmentation fault  (core dumped)

David Hlácik

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://boss.pod.cvut.cz
FTP: ftp://pod:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 139 707 808
mobil: +420 776 028 545 / +421 908 479 728



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] why?

2003-07-04 Thread KevinO
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David Hlácik wrote:
 /sbin/service: line 122: 31146 Segmentation fault  (core dumped)


Do you have a problem with the surface of your HD in the area where this file
is sitting?

If so, you may be able to make a temporary repair by leaving the bad file in
it's place and renaming it (mv service service_bad) and then putting a good
copy into the /sbin directory.

If you don't want to fiddle with rpm to get the new one, let me know which
version of Mandrake you are running and I can email you off-list with a fresh
copy of the file as an attachment.


- --
KevinO

Hickory Dickory Dock, The mice ran up the clock, The clock struck one, The
others escaped with minor injuries.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/BeTNWOfRC7Rnmv8RAtFIAJ40mICxlFWimRSSMsdsEpqNfJHjFQCdGgOf
Odn+ETH4PKZhFrQSvhDDjiU=
=BQ3A
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


[expert] why sendmail updates are 8.12.6 instead 8.12.8 for MDK 9.0 ?

2003-03-06 Thread maxxik
  Hi

  i have a question : why sendmail updates for MDK 9.0 are
  
  sendmail-8.12.6 instead sendmail 8.12.8 ???

  wbr, maxx


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com


Re: [expert] why sendmail updates are 8.12.6 instead 8.12.8 for MDK 9.0 ?

2003-03-06 Thread Vincent Danen
On Thu Mar 06, 2003 at 11:44:37AM +0200, maxxik wrote:

First.. fix your reply-to.

   i have a question : why sendmail updates for MDK 9.0 are
   
   sendmail-8.12.6 instead sendmail 8.12.8 ???

Because we patched 8.12.6.  And when we were preparing the updates, we were
given patches, not the new version.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Security; http://www.mandrakesecure.net/
Online Security Resource Book; http://linsec.ca/
lynx -source http://linsec.ca/vdanen.asc | gpg --import
{FE6F2AFD : 88D8 0D23 8D4B 3407 5BD7  66F9 2043 D0E5 FE6F 2AFD}


pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature


[expert] Why is Mandrake NOT Supporting Large Files?

2003-01-23 Thread Albert E. Whale, CISSP




I recently requested Support from the Mandrake Community, in the absence
of such, I took my problem to the developers of Perl. Here's an unpopular
response about my inquiry.

On Wed, Jan 22, 2003 at 11:36:33PM -0500, Albert E. Whale, CISSP wrote:


   [/usr/src] grep -i large rebuild.log
 + sh Configure -des -Darchname=i386-linux -Dd_dosuid -Ud_csh 
 -Duseshrplib '-Doptimize=-O3 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -mcpu=pentiumpro 
 -march=i586 -ffast-math -fno-strength-reduce' -Dprefix=/usr -Di_ndbm 
 -Di_gdbm -Di_shadow -Di_syslog -Uuselargefiles 
 -Dman1dir=/usr/share/man/man1 -Dman3dir=/usr/lib/perl5/man/man3
 Try to understand large files, if available? [n]
 Checking whether your C compiler can cast large floats to int32.
 
 While it is apparent that the -Uuselargefiles directive is used, I am 
 not certain that this is being applied to the configuration, as the next 
 question is asking 'Try to understand large files, if available?' and 
 the default answer is [n].
  


-Uuselargefiles means *don't* use large files.  -D == define.  -U == undefine.

So you likely want to change that to -Duselargefiles and maybe question why Mandrake is shutting it off.

^^^

I guess inquiring minds want to know, WHY is Mandrake NOT Supporting Large Files in the stock distribution of PERL?

SINCE I NEED LARGE FILE SUPPORT, CAN I GET IT WITH MY MANDRAKE?



-- 
Albert E. Whale - CISSP
http://www.abs-comptech.com
--
ABS Computer Technology, Inc. - ESM, Computer  Networking Specialists
Sr. Security, Network, and Systems Consultant
Board of Directors - InfraGard - Pittsburgh, PA




  1   2   3   4   >