[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-30 Thread Richard J. Williams
Duveyoung: > Was in the dome from 1981 to 1999. > The question is, what did you know, and when did you know it? > Long rounded for "five years' worth" of 20-minute > meditations while on Teacher Training for eight > months. Kept a record, made graphs! > > Always did two hour long programs

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-30 Thread Richard J. Williams
> > Your hate here is like "Nazi Memorabilia"... > > > > Edg > > Jason: > Barry with his 'intrinsic meanness' is intent > on hurting others. The motive is definitely > evil. > It seems actually more diabolical than evil. But, I can't help but note the tone of Ed's message - jessuss, this g

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread Duveyoung
Was in the dome from 1981 to 1999. Long rounded for "five years' worth" of 20-minute meditations while on Teacher Training for eight months. Kept a record, made graphs! Always did two hour long programs since 1972. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote: > > > > --- In

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread PaliGap
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > 44,000 hours in the dome. Didn't get fixed. That sure is a long time Edg. That's five solid years! Or, if your prog is, say, 4 hours per day, that's 30 years attending the dome. Did you do that? A nought wrong? Or am I arithmetical

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread Duveyoung
Marek, I've got a storage closet in San Raphael that needs cleaning out. One of these days, I'll be honking in yer driveway! Whew on the surfing scare. Dems guts I know not of. I bow. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" wrote: > > Love you, Edg. > > Since you're in Re

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread marekreavis
Love you, Edg. Since you're in Retirementville now, why not come back to the 'Boldt for a visit now and then? I've got a spare bedroom for you and the Missus and I'll remove all the damp neoprene hanging in the guest bathroom to boot. Got some big waves this weekend (big in my books, at least)

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread Jason
--- Duveyoung wrote: > > X, > > Good sobering words. > > Barry is all too easy to praise. And that's the rub. Without his vile > snark, I would say he'd be one of the top five writers that I would read here > as far as creativity goes. Introduces tons of new concepts to chew on, comes >

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-29 Thread Duveyoung
X, Good sobering words. Barry is all too easy to praise. And that's the rub. Without his vile snark, I would say he'd be one of the top five writers that I would read here as far as creativity goes. Introduces tons of new concepts to chew on, comes up with nice writerly phrases, seems to be

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-28 Thread Emily Reyn
Stay safe Xeno; I'm all for evacuation.   From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 2:59 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.   You are laying

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-28 Thread Xenophaneros Anartaxius
You are laying it on pretty thick there Robin, as if with a trowel. You might think of taking up brick laying as a second profession. And now I must make the choice of staying or leaving this area in the next few hours and drive all night to a somewhat less dangerous location where the winds a

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-28 Thread Robin Carlsen
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > > > Turq, > > > > You're a mean and cruel son of obviously-abusive parents. AYour parents > > should be put in prison for the making of you. > > > > Your

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-28 Thread Xenophaneros Anartaxius
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Turq, > > You're a mean and cruel son of obviously-abusive parents. AYour parents > should be put in prison for the making of you. > > Your mind is aberrant and foul. Your replies to others are almost always > intent on hurting th

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-27 Thread John
Edg, You're welcome. These are snippets of Leonard Susskind's new theory. You should watch his lectures on YouTube. You may find other twists to his ideas that I may have missed. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Oooo, thanks JR! > > For this: "Similarly,

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-27 Thread Duveyoung
Oooo, thanks JR! For this: "Similarly, the universe will be sucked in to the great expanse of the Big Rip when the expanding velocity of all of the stars and galaxies reach the speed of light." I have not tripped over that concept before -- I must digest it! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@y

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-27 Thread Duveyoung
Marek, Thanks for that book suggestion -- sounds like my cup of tea, except that a cup of tea is pretty damned silent! As for that eyesight thingie -- wow! I wonder if the ancient astrologers had that ability too. I might explain a mystery to me: namely: that they figured out that Jupiter

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-27 Thread Duveyoung
Posted it a couple years ago. Now that I've reposted it, I'm disappointed in the write up. The concept deserved a better debutante ball. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" wrote: > > Edg, I don't remember ever seeing this before. When did you post it? > > *** > > --- In

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-27 Thread Richard J. Williams
turquoiseb: > That said, please carry on for the next two weeks ( or more ) > arguing about who is to blame for things and who is not. Over > here in Europe, more and more people are starting to look at > all this as the "rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic" it is. > You are so much better tha

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread awoelflebater
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > > > Also preserve us from 'people-teasers' who post intimate > > aspects of their personal lives on a public forum, trying to > > make a case by treating a 'public forum' as th

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > > > Also preserve us from 'people-teasers' who post intimate > > aspects of their personal lives on a public forum, trying to > > make a case by treating a 'public forum' as thei

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread awoelflebater
Let's see if we can even count how many negative words or phrases Barry uses in this little post of his. Sweet gum drop that he is. I will italicize them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" reavismarek@ wrote: > > > > Ed

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > Also preserve us from 'people-teasers' who post intimate > aspects of their personal lives on a public forum, trying to > make a case by treating a 'public forum' as their personal > blog. Some of us have nothing to hide.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Jason
> > --- "marekreavis" wrote: > > > > Edg, I don't remember ever seeing this before. When did you post it? > --- turquoiseb wrote: > > A Google search reveals that it was posted sometime back > in 2010. Edg is so petty and so obsessive about his own > supposed self-importance that he's still f

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "marekreavis" wrote: > > Edg, I don't remember ever seeing this before. When did you post it? A Google search reveals that it was posted sometime back in 2010. Edg is so petty and so obsessive about his own supposed self-importance that he's still fuming abou

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread John
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Reposting -- cuz no one understood it -- ON PURPOSE. > > I just tripped over this post again, and fuck if I didn't get pissed yet > again at the shits who willfully intended to kill the messenger and ignore > the concepts being delive

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread marekreavis
By the way, Edg, it's a good post and a beautiful theory. Have you read "The Creative Explosion: An Inquiry into the Origins of Art and Religion" by John Pfeiffer? He has a fascinating theory re the great cave art of Lascaux, Alta Mira, and the others. And I remember reading recently about Afri

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread marekreavis
Edg, I don't remember ever seeing this before. When did you post it? *** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Reposting -- cuz no one understood it -- ON PURPOSE. > > I just tripped over this post again, and fuck if I didn't get pissed yet > again at the shits who willful

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Richard J. Williams
Duveyoung: > I have been bashed, besmirched and berated... > Maybe I should be upset since I posted over 5,000 messages to Usenet about yoga and meditation and hardly anyone posted a reply, except to bash, besmirch, and berate. Why don't they just shoot us, Ed? Go figure. > Yep, I'm going wi

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Jason
--- Duveyoung wrote: > > Turq, > > You're a mean and cruel son of obviously-abusive parents. AYour parents > should be put in prison for the making of you. > > Your mind is aberrant and foul. Your replies to others are almost always > intent on hurting the tender feeling level -- there

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Duveyoung
Turq, You're a mean and cruel son of obviously-abusive parents. AYour parents should be put in prison for the making of you. Your mind is aberrant and foul. Your replies to others are almost always intent on hurting the tender feeling level -- therefore: evil by even a mundane and non-spi

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Jason
Carl Sagan in his book 'Cosmos' says that mankind wanted to identify with the 'permanence' of the sky above. He points out that the national flags of most countries have either the stars or moon or sun. No doubt it's the most ancient "science" if one can us the term. It eventualy led to mod

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread turquoiseb
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Reposting -- cuz no one understood it -- ON PURPOSE. I suspect you're just having an "It's all about me" moment, Edg. Speaking for myself, 1) I have no memory of ever having seen it before, and 2) I would have clicked Next the instant

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2012-10-26 Thread Buck
> > > > We city dwellers don't know the night sky, do we? And our astronomers are > > all busy looking beyond the human eye's ability, so who looks at the skies > > now with any hint of a personal relationship? > > > > To me, the astrologers who would read about our lives in our astrologica

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-16 Thread WillyTex
> > From what I've heard Sanjay's group broke apart > > due to money dispute. I tried to get some info > > from one of the organizers... > > TurquoiseB: > So you're saying that all these Jyotishi, who you > are presenting as somewhat advanced, and yourself > cool because you shared a little of

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-16 Thread tartbrain
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > > > John wrote: > > > > Yeah, I met these guys when I was living in Seattle up > > > > until 2004. It was in 1

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > > > John wrote: > > > Yeah, I met these guys when I was living in Seattle up > > > until 2004. It was in 1994 that I started learning jyotish. > > > One of the students in our cla

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread John
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > John wrote: > > Yeah, I met these guys when I was living in Seattle up until 2004. It was > > in 1994 that I started learning jyotish. One of the students in our class > > was the wife of the governor of Washington state. Our teacher

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Bhairitu
John wrote: > Yeah, I met these guys when I was living in Seattle up until 2004. It was in > 1994 that I started learning jyotish. One of the students in our class was > the wife of the governor of Washington state. Our teacher was Brendan Feeley > who had since moved to the nation's capital.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread John
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > WillyTex wrote: > > Duveyoung: > > > >> He made a statement that he cannot back up... > >> > >> > > Apparently you don't get it Edg - nobody wants to > > discuss Astrology with you because you and Barry > > are not Astrologers, i

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Duveyoung
Okay, so I cannot do the math of an astronomer, I don't care, cuz this isn't about modern astronomy's math, it's about the non-mathematical action of book-marking a memory by using the stars' positions. What I do care about, line on stone, is that you acted like an asshole and remain unapologet

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Bhairitu
Okay, since you know a ton about astronomy can you tell us how to calculate an planet's orbit? What terms and methods are available? How do you implement reading Chebyshev polynomials in software that can be read from the JPL ephemeris. Now no fair cheating and looking this stuff up because

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Duveyoung
So fucking what? I'm talking about something quite different than any recent recorded relationships between astronomy and astrology. You are the one missing the point. And I know a ton about astronomy and the history of it including Kepler et al and how they futzed around with astrology.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Bhairitu
Astrology uses astronomy, Edg. Apparently you didn't get my point about many early astronomers, of whom Kepler was only one, made their living by preparing charts for astrologers. A serious astrologer knows some astronomy too. Duveyoung wrote: > I'm talking about the opposite of astrology. > >

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Bhairitu
WillyTex wrote: > Duveyoung: > >> He made a statement that he cannot back up... >> >> > Apparently you don't get it Edg - nobody wants to > discuss Astrology with you because you and Barry > are not Astrologers, in fact you are both flamers. > > Get some smarts - if you can't find somethi

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Duveyoung
I'm talking about the opposite of astrology. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex" wrote: > > > > Duveyoung: > > He made a statement that he cannot back up... > > > Apparently you don't get it Edg - nobody wants to > discuss Astrology with you because you and Barry > are not As

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread WillyTex
Duveyoung: > He made a statement that he cannot back up... > Apparently you don't get it Edg - nobody wants to discuss Astrology with you because you and Barry are not Astrologers, in fact you are both flamers. Get some smarts - if you can't find something common to discuss, just keep your pi

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Duveyoung
Judy, Hmmm, seems to me I deconstructed his post, and you are purposefully ignoring the issues I illustrated. In fact, you're being downright Barryesque in that you snip off many of my comments -- seemingly because I scored points with them -- and that just wouldn't do now would it? He made a

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Judy, > > Here's Bhairitu's words: > > Don't bother copyrighting as the subject has been tackled > by many authors. > > The use of the word, "subject," indicates that he knows > what the subject is: caveman night sky diary. No, the "s

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread Duveyoung
Judy, Here's Bhairitu's words: Don't bother copyrighting as the subject has been tackled by many authors. The use of the word, "subject," indicates that he knows what the subject is: caveman night sky diary. He asserts confidently ("many') that the subject has not only been, say, "mentioned bef

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-15 Thread WillyTex
> > That's correct but he doesn't seem to get it. > > Duveyoung: > I'd say you've flat out been caught red-handed > as a bullshitter... > It is a fact needing no further proof that the first sight of another person's face can determine the outcome of an entire day. However, we should all pa

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Bhairitu -- I'd say you've flat out been caught red-handed > as a bullshitter. You put down my "caveman night sky > diary" idea as trite and then cannot back up your play. I > maintain the idea is unique. Edg. You aren't paying attentio

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > > > Bhairitu -- I'd say you've flat out been caught red-handed as > > a bullshitter. You put down my "caveman night sky diary" idea > > as trite... > > What? No harsh words

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Bhairitu -- I'd say you've flat out been caught red-handed as > a bullshitter. You put down my "caveman night sky diary" idea > as trite... What? No harsh words for me? :-) I dismissed your "essay" as trite without even reading it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
Bhairitu -- I'd say you've flat out been caught red-handed as a bullshitter. You put down my "caveman night sky diary" idea as trite and then cannot back up your play. I maintain the idea is unique. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > That's correct but he doesn't s

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Bhairitu
That's correct but he doesn't seem to get it. authfriend wrote: > Edg, I think he's saying that lots of people have had lots > of different ideas about how the ancients used astronomy. > He doesn't think you should bother to copyright yours > because nobody's going to want to steal it; they'll com

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
I'm not worried about anyone taking the idea and getting a PhD in it and becoming famous in the Paleolithic world -- just wanted to date the idea's birth in my nervous system and, hey, if I got lucky and was the first to come up with the notion, then, yeah, I'll take a brief bow for 15 SECONDS o

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread authfriend
Edg, I think he's saying that lots of people have had lots of different ideas about how the ancients used astronomy. He doesn't think you should bother to copyright yours because nobody's going to want to steal it; they'll come up with their own idea instead--i.e., they're a dime a dozen. (Right, B

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
Still non-responsive. Give a link. I googled it and found nothing -- pony up -- if you can't then your several responses that showed such certainty that the idea was well-worn must be bullshit. Keyword: diary. Read my essay -- sounds like a scanning didn't do it for you. Edg --- In Fairfie

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Bhairitu
Chill out. I was not beating up on you. Just pointing out there have been plenty of such ideas already written about. I scanned your article and got the gist of it. Now go make some pitta tea and chill out. ;-) Duveyoung wrote: > Did you or did you not read my entire essay? You are being

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > Did you or did you not read my entire essay? I don't know about Bhairitu, but I can state for a fact that I read no more of it than the first sentence or so that appeared in Message View. The fact that *you* were proud enough of it to c

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
Did you or did you not read my entire essay? You are being non-responsive about the "diary" idea. Did you actually come across this concept before? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > No, I did as an example of astrological theory. > > Duveyoung wrote: > > Sunspots?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Bhairitu
No, I did as an example of astrological theory. Duveyoung wrote: > Sunspots? -- I never mentioned sunspots. > > Edg > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > >> I was speaking about the concept. The article on the sunspots was in >> the Mountain Astrologer probably over a

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
Sunspots? -- I never mentioned sunspots. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > I was speaking about the concept. The article on the sunspots was in > the Mountain Astrologer probably over a decade ago. > > Duveyoung wrote: > > Perhaps you could share a link with me?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Bhairitu
I was speaking about the concept. The article on the sunspots was in the Mountain Astrologer probably over a decade ago. Duveyoung wrote: > Perhaps you could share a link with me? I don't think I've come across > anyone every saying what I'm saying below -- the concept of "the night sky > bei

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-14 Thread Duveyoung
Perhaps you could share a link with me? I don't think I've come across anyone every saying what I'm saying below -- the concept of "the night sky being a personal diary." Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: > > Don't bother copyrighting as the subject has been tackled by

[FairfieldLife] Re: A new theory about how astronomy was used by the ancients.

2010-05-13 Thread John
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: > > I like the following idea so much I'm copyrighting this piece. I haven't > been all that scholarly, but I'm convinced I'm being original and that the > below is a new idea. Er, I hope. > > Copyright Edg Duveyoung 2010 > > One fac