--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 1:49 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
[...]
That could be the case
On Apr 10, 2012, at 12:53 AM, sparaig wrote:
Except, of course, there's no TM-speak way of saying that because
it makes no sense according to theory, nor according to my own
experience (or lack thereof).
Never got the Age of Enlightenment technique, or as some people
called it the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
Your right, I did write that. I was rushing off. I think I assumed MMY said it
because I have heard it so often in the movement, because just about everything
significant in the movement typically came directly from him. My apologies.
Signing off for the rest of the day. I'll find out if I have
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
Here's what Vaj snipped to obscure the fact that his
response here is a non sequitur:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
[...]
That could be the case for TMers since TM's ideal end
stage SOC is a
That exception is based on a study of 4 long-term TMers who were reporting some
kind of dissociation with no ill effects, according to the study's author.
L
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
[...]
On the other hand, DSM-IV recognizes that dissociation
is not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@ wrote:
We have the story, from MMY that he was the
On Apr 8, 2012, at 10:59 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
I do not think there is scientific evidence of anyone ever, being
enlightened.
There actually is research project looking into the graduated
neurological and biological processes in awakening and Buddhahood.
It will probably
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 8, 2012, at 10:59 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
I do not think there is scientific evidence of anyone ever, being
enlightened.
There actually is research project looking into the graduated
neurological and
On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
It is also certainly possible that there are
different markers for different kinds of meditation.
It is known that Buddhist mindfulness meditation
results in an increase in gray matter in the brain.
That could be the case for TMers
Most brain imaging techniques are actually very dangerous. There are cooling
off periods measured in weeks or even a month or more, before a second test
can be performed, except in emergencies. This is because they are extremely
intrusive, by nature, involving the ingestion of toxic and/or
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
It is also certainly possible that there are
different markers for different kinds of meditation.
It is known that Buddhist mindfulness meditation
results in
On Apr 9, 2012, at 1:49 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
It is also certainly possible that there are
different markers for different kinds of meditation.
It is known that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:
Most brain imaging techniques are actually very dangerous.
There are cooling off periods measured in weeks or even
a month or more, before a second test can be performed,
except in emergencies. This is because they are
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 1:49 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:00 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
It is also certainly possible that there are
Completely wrong, Vaj. Dissasociaton from the body or rising above bodilhy
consciousness is the traditional Sant Mat Samadhi, which has two permanent
levels: Self Realization and God Realization.
...
If a TM'er achieved such as temporarty state of Samadhi, this would be a rare
achievement; and
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 9, 2012, at 1:49 PM, sparaig wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
[...]
That could be the case for TMers since TM's ideal end stage SOC is a
disembodied state (videha-mukti,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
Most brain imaging techniques are actually very dangerous.
There are cooling off periods measured in weeks or even
a month or more, before a second test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 7, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
His life is actually what I'd expect an illegitimate guru to be like:
BlahBlahBlah
This Vaj never gives up does he. Did he not learn that Goebbels and his
team,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
When Turq said eternity is the teacher, this is
pretty much correct I think.
I am not convinced that the very concept of correct
maps to this or any spiritual discussion. As far as
I can tell, no matter
On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:36 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 7, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
His life is actually what I'd expect an illegitimate guru to be like:
BlahBlahBlah
This Vaj never gives up
Two points:
1. I'm the only person who fits the description below of
a few of the people making strong statements about 'TM's
tradition' [who] were, in fact, never a part of it, and
never met MMY physically.
2. I prefaced my strong statements thusly:
(Usual disclaimer: I'm not privy to what MMY
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
When Turq said eternity is the teacher, this is
pretty much correct I think.
I am not convinced that the very concept of correct
maps to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 7, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
His life is actually what I'd expect an illegitimate guru to be like:
BlahBlahBlah
This Vaj never gives up does he. Did he not learn that Goebbels and his
team, his mentors,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@ wrote:
When Turq said eternity is the teacher, this is
Vaj:
Vedic Teabaggers, I like that, it
has a nice ring to it!
So, tell us again, Vaj, how you're
not prejudiced against Hindus.
turquoiseb:
I would include the possibility that the listener
has a sense of empathic identification with the
words not based on anything that they have have
experienced in this life, but also in any of their
past lives. Woo woo I know, but I kinda live there...
Well, I guess you'll
On Apr 8, 2012, at 6:31 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
When Turq said eternity is the teacher, this is
pretty much correct I think.
I am not convinced that the very concept of correct
maps to this or any
On Apr 8, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 7, 2012, at 5:44 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
His life is actually what I'd expect an illegitimate guru to be like:
BlahBlahBlah
This Vaj never gives up
NO ONE on this forum ever met Guru Dev. But I would bet
that many here who would swear on a stack of Gitas that
he was not only enlightened, but one of the most enlight-
enedest beings ever to walk the earth. A few of the
people making strong statements about TM's tradition
were, in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
We have the story, from MMY that he was the 'most favoured disciple', and the
story from others there at the time that MMY was just a clerk.
Your post have plenty of points to discuss. But just the one
Vaj:
Do you remember how annoying it was to have
someone pin a flower on you while you were
toting luggage to some distant terminal?
No, but why didn't you just check your baggage
instead of toting it around? Go figure.
There's nothing more strange to behold then
some westerner attempting
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams
richard@... wrote:
Vaj:
Do you remember how annoying it was to have
someone pin a flower on you while you were
toting luggage to some distant terminal?
No, but why didn't you just check your baggage
instead of toting it
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
We have the story, from MMY that he was the 'most favoured disciple', and
the story **from others there at the time** [at Jyotir
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@ wrote:
We have the story, from MMY that he was the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 6, 2012, at 6:23 PM, Yifu wrote:
No. Many are in a state of hazy Transcendence - a type of partial opening
of certain nerve centers with a cognitive awarenss of Oh, thought has been
transcended, initially after
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
On Apr 6, 2012, at 6:23 PM, Yifu wrote:
No. Many are in a state of hazy Transcendence - a type of
partial opening of certain nerve centers
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@...
wrote:
I'm glad you weighed in Marek. Your information about Shantanand
was very interesting.
I feel kind of detached from certain aspects of this discussion
because for me, Maharishi as Guru gone rogue is
In retrospect, examining my 'tude towards bhakti and (IMO)
over-idealization of spiritual teachers, I suspect that a
lot of it came from how the Rama guy presented things back
in the early days of his teaching. At the time (before he
started believing his own PR and stuff that students began
to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
was attuned in some cosmic way that he could imitate
It was in the deep functioning of my heart and mind,
feeling and understanding, to just go in the direction he
wanted me to go -- this way or that way or that way or
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:
That seems pretty darned bhakti-esque to me.
Interesting point. I dunno, if you read that second quote
I posted, it sounds quite calculated: this guy is obviously
enlightened, I want to become enlightened, so I'm going to
align
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:
That said, I *DO* tend to agree with those who have suggested
that Maharishi's relationship with Guru Dev was primarily
imaginary,
And ofcourse the only ones suggesting such a thing, and thinking gay are
Buddhist's.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
That seems pretty darned bhakti-esque to me.
Interesting point. I dunno, if you read that second quote
I posted, it sounds quite calculated: this guy is
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
So the question is, what was Maharishi's basis for
defying the tradition?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
jstein@... wrote:
I do think Curtis's statement of what Vaj has been
doing--denouncing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 6, 2012, at 12:41 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
snip
So we have Raunchy supporting TM, which comes from a tradition
that does not support Maharishi's power grab, and we have Vaj
saying that he was not legitimate,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@...
wrote:
snip
I am interested in how this discussion with Vaj gets so
complicated because it isn't as some frame it, an anti-TM
guy blasting the movement, I believe he is sincere in his
view that Maharishi was a fraud
raunchydog:
...he thinks TM is not only inferior to
Buddhist practice but harmful.
Buddhists do not disparage others spiritual
practices, or make fun of them, so I'm very
doubtful if Vaj's anti-TM pronouncements
would qualify him to be a teacher of Buddhism,
of any kind. Obviously, Vaj
On Apr 6, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
raunchydog:
...he thinks TM is not only inferior to
Buddhist practice but harmful.
Buddhists do not disparage others spiritual
practices, or make fun of them, so I'm very
doubtful if Vaj's anti-TM pronouncements
would qualify him to be
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:04 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Presence
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote:
Sometimes I log in to FFL and the exact right thing is posted for my review,
based on where I'm at, or whatever. Â
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote:
Thanks Raunchy. I think this is an interesting critique on the quote - I
like what you said here:
snip
In TM we don't transcend to escape the body. We transcend to make the body
healthy and the mind blissful.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:
On Apr 6, 2012, at 9:50 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
raunchydog:
...he thinks TM is not only inferior to
Buddhist practice but harmful.
Buddhists do not disparage others spiritual
practices, or make fun of
On Apr 6, 2012, at 11:38 AM, Emily Reyn wrote:
Thanks Raunchy. I think this is an interesting critique on the
quote - I like what you said here:
snip
In TM we don't transcend to escape the body. We transcend to make
the body healthy and the mind blissful.
It is a critique, but a false
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote:
Hinduism, Shmin-duism. As anyone who's read Vaj's posts knows, he's not a fan
of TM.
With some distance from both these polarities I find this eternal battle so
oddly interesting. I like my TM just fine and it fulfills
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote:
Thanks Raunchy. I think this is an interesting critique on the quote - I
like what you said here:
snip
In TM we don't transcend to escape the body. We transcend to make the body
healthy and the mind blissful.
You are ignoring the attitude towards MMY that was adopted by Gurudev's oldest
(longest in his presence) disciple, who was, according to the will, to become
Gurudev's successor.
I'm not arguing that the will is valid, or anything else, except that the guy
named in the will was with Gurudev
Maharishi made it clear in his earliest writings that he received his mission
from Guru Dev after Guru Dev had died. It was a revelation to Maharishi, what
he described as direct inspiration, and if I have the chronology correct, it
was after that revelation that Maharishi had what he referred
I hadn't read Judith's book, so the part about Prime Minister of India seems
rather odd...
However, if you check, you will find that quite a few political parties in
India were founded by high-ranking sanyasi (?) including the student of Gurudev
who turned down the post of Jyotirmath when
Lawson, Swami Shantanand was not with Guru Dev for a long time. He was a
relative newcomer to the ashram. He was, however, Guru Dev's nephew and like
Maharishi's habit of incorporating blood relatives into positions of authority,
it seems perfectly reasonable that blood ties became a dominant
Hinduism, Shmin-duism. As anyone who's
read Vaj's posts knows, he's not a fan
of TM.
curtisdeltablues:
So the question is, what was Maharishi's
basis for defying the tradition?
That 'TM' practice works, but the 'tradition'
does not, other than to pay lip service to?
Interesting. THanks for the clarification. Nepotism is certainly a very
traditional thing in India. Witness the blood-relationships of most of the
Prime Ministers over the years.
L.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote:
Lawson, Swami Shantanand was not
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote:
Thanks Raunchy. I think this is an interesting critique on the quote - I
like what you said here:
snip
In TM we don't transcend to escape
marekreavis:
Swami Karpatri (Hariharananda), one of Guru Dev's
oldest and most respected disciples, took it upon
himself to challenge the will...
Apparently the will of Guru Dev has never been
challenged in an Indian court.
The Hindustan Times reported that in the early
1980s Swami
I'm glad you weighed in Marek. Your information about Shantanand was very
interesting.
I feel kind of detached from certain aspects of this discussion because for me,
Maharishi as Guru gone rogue is more interesting than if he had stayed in his
caste assigned place. I am interested in how
No. Many are in a state of hazy Transcendence - a type of partial opening of
certain nerve centers with a cognitive awarenss of Oh, thought has been
transcended, initially after the fact.. Of course, probably not a genuine
state of 3-rd eye awakening or traditional Samadhi.
...
There's no
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
snip
This point is also interesting from Maharishi's own
words because he described this attunement to his mind
as being a process of writing fairly formulaic letters
on Guru Dev's behalf and then asking him is
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@... wrote:
snip
So we have Raunchy supporting TM, which comes from a
tradition that does not support Maharishi's power grab,
and we have Vaj saying that he was not legitimate,
speaking for Guru Dev and his tradition from
That seems pretty darned bhakti-esque to me.
L.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote:
[...]
It was in the deep functioning of my heart and mind,
feeling and understanding, to just go in the direction he
wanted me to go -- this way or that way or that way or
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote:
Sometimes I log in to FFL and the exact right thing is posted for my review,
based on where I'm at, or whatever. Â Thanks for posting this. Â Today I was
asked the question How does your body feel when you are
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