I replied to this once. Somehow it never posted, so here goes again:
From Judy, quoting Bronte:
To claim that the ego is only a Me is to perceive only its limited >
expression. Such limited expression certainly needs dissolving for > cosmic
bliss to occur. But the Me only needs to dissolve into the > I. It was never
intended by the Infinite that the I should dissolve > into non-existence.
Judy wrote:
I really think this all boils down to a matter of semantics. I've never
understood that in enlightenment the "I" dissolves into nonexistence; rather,
what dissolves into nonsexistence (because it was an illusion to start with) is
*identification*
with the "I." The "I" is still there, doing its thing, not in any way inhibited
by the lack of identification with it.
Bronte writes:
It's not just semantics. It's a fundamentally opposite way of viewing life
and the universe. People of my mindset don't just claim that the ego never
dissolves in true enlightenment. We also advocate that IDENTIFICATION WITH the
ego -- in the subjective sense of "I, the doer" (not in the object sense of
"Me, the happened to") SHOULD never dissolve. We argue that having such
dissolution as one's goal or allowing it to happen is the hugest mistake a
human being can make.
You say that the ego doesn't dissolve in enlightenment -- that identification
with the ego is what dissolves. I don't think identification with the small
self has to ever dissolve or should. What the goal should be is to identifify
with both one's cosmic unlimited universal nature while AT THE SAME TIME
identifying with oneself as an individual consciousness. Both identities must
be simultaneous for true realization to occur.
When a person stops identifying with their individual "I," they lose their
authorship, their empowerment, their freedom as original, creative expressions
of God. The difference between your description of enlightenment and mine is
huge: it's the difference between someone floating in the water and someone
swimming.
We're not here to float in the water, to let life happen to us. To observe
and witness ourselves and life, to be "done to." We're here to co-create with
God, realizing our oneness with That, our infinite power and joy as God's
dynamic expressions. Co-creating is impossible when people accept a belief that
to identify with their individuality (thoughts, desires, etc.) is unspiritual,
egotistical, and contrary to liberation. That false belief turns people
ultimately into walking zombies. They do but don't do. They think but don't
think. They desire but don't really care. Vanilla, watered-down people.
Incapable of original doing, only of being done to and of observing themselves.
You might say a "floater" still moves in the water, so therefore a floater
has not abdicated being a doer. One who floats in the water still participates
fully in life. But in reality, a floater only moves in the water in reaction to
forces and objects around it. It does not move of its own accord. The
difference between the "nonexistent ego" or "nonidentified ego" concept of
enlightenment and my concept is the difference between a dead body in the water
versus a live one.
I agree that false identification is at the root of suffering in life. But
what false identification consists of is not what Indianism tells us it is.
False identification, and the cause of suffering, is identification of
ourselves with the body, not identifcation of ourselves as individuals.
When we think we are the body -- that is, matter -- we believe we are limited
and bound, helpless within the confines of physical mass. That false belief
causes every sort of pain that exists. When we move from this false perception
to experiencing ourselves as unlimited consciousness -- an individual and
unique impulse of unbounded cosmic mind -- then we no longer are victims. Now
we know we live on a powerhouse of potential -- that we ARE the powerhouse of
potential, the Infinite itself. Identifying with our universal nature at the
same time as we identify with our individuality is both infinite freedom and
personal empowerment.
The mistake that causes suffering is the belief that we are nothing but this
body, an entity that gets things done to it against its will, that can't
achieve its desires, that is bound by space and time. Believing that "I am the
body," a human being grows selfish, hostile and attacking of others on account
of their earth-bound frustration.
Expand that belief to an understanding of one's universal nature, and the
concept of body limitation no longer exists. One identifies with oneself as
consciousness, a fluid-like eternal Isness that can make or remake itself into
anything it desires. From that state of knowingness, the body no longer limits.
It is a tool in the hands of spirit -- a spirit that is both individual and
divine at the same time. A person with such knowledge does not disidentify from
their individuality anymore than they disidentify from their universal nature.
They are both together. The body is their instrument for interfacing with the
material world.
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