Good and informative post Shemp. See comments. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Being from Quebec I am somewhat familiar with secessionist movements > and the various constitutional frameworks that surround jurisdictions > that lean have advocated it. > > There was/is a movement amongst residents of the NorthWest United > States and some of the Canadian western provinces who > advocate "Cascadia", if memory serves me correctly, which is a > joining of those states and provinces in that area that would form a > country/trading zone. It very well may contain Alaska...I'd be > surprised if it didn't. > > "more power to them" you say in response to Bongo Brazil vis a vis > Alaska leaving the United States. Some scolars -- such as Ben Stein - > - would argue that that is precisely what the interpretation of the > U.S. Constitution at the time of the civil war should have allowed, > as a result of the residual powers of the constitution being given to > the states; that is, any power not specifically given to the federal > branch of power goes to the states...and since "secession" is no > where named in the U.S. constitution, it must necessarily be vested > with the states, NOT the federal government. > > Abe Lincoln obviously disagreed.
And his actions led to the slaughter or maiming of over 2-3 million people -- and Jim Crow quasi-slavery for 100+ more years. Ben Stein sounds like far more like a compassionate gentle humanist than Lincoln. (Though some of Ben's view suck, he can be interesting to listen to) > > When Canada was formed in 1867, they did so immediately after the > U.S. experience with their civil war. Also federation, the Fathers > of Canada's constitution specifically gave the residual power to the > central or federal level of government, specifically in order to > avoid the same problem the Americans experienced. However, as you > know, despite this Quebec has tried on several occasions through > democratic means to secede from Canada. It got to the point where a > reference was made to the Supreme Court of Canada about 10 years ago > as to what the legal ramifications would be should Quebec ever have a > majority "yes" vote in a separation referendum (we've had two in the > past 28 years with the federal side winning both times). And despite the (false dreamland) view of many, the Constitution (of the US) is neither sacred, invoked from God, eternal or perfect. It was a good consensus agreement with many flaws worked out by many gentlemen farmer slaveholders to -- in Tom Jefferson's view -- to last 20 years or so until the next (positive -- in his view) cleansing revolution. There is nothing that prevents legislation or a new clarifying Amendment that explicitly establishes the rights of all states -- and municipalities -- to seceede and form more perfect unions that better promote the life liberty and happiness of its citizens (after paying an exit fee for their share of debt and federal assets in their state). My life, liberty, happiness, economic well being, are all literally threatened by this long overripe and failing union with "the Red States". And my intelligence is daily insulted, an my heart daily broken, by their actions -- and I cherish the right at some point to disassociate with Nascar nation and all that they stand for. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> > wrote: > > > > Has America become the new Roach Motel of the world? You can check > in > > -- but never check out. > > > > If Alaska wants to go it s own way -- and pay its share for federal > > debt, and buy all federal property in Alaska, and leave .. more > power > > to them. > > > > It could be interesting. Being closer to Russia than the US, they > > might form various alliances with Russia -- trade and defense. > > > > And Alaska is destined to become a major trading center in the > coming > > decades -- as the North Pole regions continue to melt and summer > > shipping lanes become free and clear (which his happening > rapidly.) > > > > Scientific* American Sept 21 2007 "ice-free summers in the Arctic > may > > become the norm in the near future. "At this point, I'd say the year > > 2030 is not unreasonable" for a summer without sea ice in the > Arctic, > > Serreze says. "Within our lifetimes and certainly within our > > children's lifetimes."" > > > > *Not to be confused with Vodoo Ostrich Science that Shemp endorses. > > > > Jun. 27 2008 12:59 PM ET > > CTV.ca News Staff > > "For the first time in modern history, the North Pole may be iceless > > this summer. Scientists say it's an even bet that sea ice in the > > region will completely disappear in the next few months, perhaps as > > soon as August. > > > > Ice at the North Pole quickly and significantly melted away last > year, > > and that may be causing further melting this summer. Scientists say > > the disappearance of long-term and thicker ice formed over the years > > has disappeared. Now, most of the ice that's left is seasonal ice, > > which melts away much more quickly during warm weather. " > > > > > > "The Northwest Passage, a normally ice-locked shortcut between > Europe > > and Asia, is now passable for the first time in recorded history > > reports the European Space Agency. Leif Toudal Pedersen from the > > Danish National Space Centre said in the article: 'We have seen the > > ice-covered area drop to just around 3 million sq km which is about > 1 > > million sq km less than the previous minima of 2005 and 2006. There > > has been a reduction of the ice cover over the last 10 years of > about > > 100 000 sq km per year on average, so a drop of 1 million sq km in > > just one year is extreme.'" > > > > > > Shipping companies are already planning to exploit the first > > simultaneous opening of the routes since the beginning of the last > Ice > > Age 125,000 years ago. The Beluga Group in Germany said it will send > > the first ship through the Northeast Passage, around Russia, next > year > > - cutting 4000 miles off the voyage from Germany to Japan. > > > > The pictures, taken two days ago and gathered using microwave > sensors > > that penetrate clouds, were published on a website by scientists at > > the University of Bremen in Germany. They show the Northwest Passage > > around Canada opened last weekend and the Northeast Passage was free > > from ice a few days later. > > > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > > > on secession: > > > > The group Republic of Texas generated national publicity for its > > actions in the late 1990s. There have been repeated attempts to > form a > > Republic of Cascadia in the Pacific Northwest. The Hawaiian > > sovereignty movement has a number of active groupings which have won > > some concessions from the State of Hawaii. Founded in 1983, The > > Creator's Rights Party seeks to have one or more states secede in > > order to implement "God's plan for government" and is fielding > > political candidates in 2007 around the United States. > > > > Efforts to organize a continental secession movement have been > > initiated since 2004 by members of Second Vermont Republic, working > > with noted decentralist author Kirkpatrick Sale. Their > second "radical > > consultation" in November of 2004 resulted in a statement of intent > > called The Middlebury Declaration. It also gave rise to the > Middlebury > > Institute, which is dedicated to the "study of separatism, > secession, > > and self-determination" and which engages in secessionist > organizing. > > > > In November 2006 the same group sponsored the First North American > > Secessionist Convention which attracted 40 participants from 16 > > secessionist organizations and was (erroneously) described as the > > first gathering of secessionists since the Civil War. Delegates > > included a broad spectrum from libertarians to socialists to greens > to > > Christian conservatives to indigenous peoples activists. Groups > > represented included Alaskan Independence Party, Cascadia > Independence > > Project, Hawaiʻi Nation, The Second Maine Militia, The Free > State > > Project, the Republic of New Hampshire, the League of the South, > > Christian Exodus, the Second Vermont Republic and the United > Republic > > of Texas. Delegates created a statement of principles of secession > > which they presented as the Burlington Declaration.[32] The Second > > North American Secessionist Convention in October, 2007, in > > Chattanooga, Tennessee received local and national media attention. > [33] > > > > Additionally some members of the Lakota people of Montana, Wyoming, > > and the Dakota region are also making steps to separate from the > > United States.[citation needed] The self-proclaimed Republic of > > Lakotah has made a point to say that their actions are not those of > > secession, but rather an assertion of independence of a nation that > > was always sovereign and did not join the United States willfully. > > They note a failure of the United States government in honoring > > treaties, and abuse of Native peoples through out its history. A > > statement of independence was released as of January 2008, and the > > United States government has not commented on the issue. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > <shempmcgurk@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Keep this line of thinking going, Bongo. Because, by > implication, > > > > > your reasoning can be applied to Barky. > > > > > > > > > > Hmmm. Let's see. The founder of an organisation that the > > husband of > > > > > the VP candidate belongs to expressed WORDS of hatred for > America. > > > > > > > > > > > > You left out that the AIP still has secession as a goal and > still > > > > honors the words of its founder and that Todd Palin has been a > member > > > > for 7 years and that Sarah Palin introduced their 2008 > convention. > > > > > > > > Neither one of them has, to my knowledge, ever repudiated those > WORDS > > > > nor the basic tenets of the secessionist AIP. > > > > > > > > > And why is discussion and even planning for sucession a bad > thing? > > > > > > Why would repudiation of sucessionism be required or even lauded? > > > > > > Is America now like the Berlin Wall -- you need to fence "free > > > citizens" in to keep them from staking out their own destinies? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet Barky himself -- not his wife -- was intimately connected > with > > > > > and worked closely with a non-repentant self-admitted > > terrorist...not > > > > > someone who expressed, through his freedom of speech, words of > > hatred > > > > > of America BUT ACTUALLY BOMBED THE INSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED > > STATES. > > > > > > > > > > > > Obama was 8 years old when that happened and never had any > association > > > > with Ayers in any way until decades later when he participated > in a > > > > widely respected education project with a team that included a > fully > > > > rehabilitated Ayers and others - all of whom had nothing at all > to do > > > > with Ayer's' past. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, genius, keep this sort of thing up. It should bode well > > for the > > > > > Obama campaign. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't have any doubt that Obama's campaign will successfully > weather > > > > the admitted last ditch desperate effort by the McCain people to > > > > resort to intense negative less-than-truthful smears. They > simply > > > > cannot win any other way. > > > > > > > > Half-truths, misrepresentations, omissions, distortions, > exaggerations > > > > and flat out lies are what characterize the claims *and > integrity* of > > > > the right wing freaks and low-life slime trolls like Magoo. > > > > > > > > After having been burned so badly by the bullshit and lies of > BushCo > > > > and its 'culture of corruption' rubber stamp GOP Congress, the > > > > American people appear to be more savvy lately than to accept > more of > > > > the same in the form of a negative smear campaign by > McCain/Palin and > > > > their surrogate noise makers who offer little if anything that's > > > > substantive real positive change for the nation and regular > Americans > > > > at all - just a continuation of more of the same self-service > and > > > > failures. > > > > > > > > > >
