Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. One way trip to where? What is this you discover you are and that's it? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jason jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: ** --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
What is this stubbornness emptybill? You are saying you will use the experiences of someone, the context, the narrative of someone from thousands of years ago as the yardstick for someone who has mystical experiences now - in this modern age? Do you think Advaita Vedanta is an actual insight into reality? Is proposing a model of reality? Or is it merely a technique or a philosophy? On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 7:00 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Those claiming enlightenment should be able to offer comparative proof based upon something other than their own subjectivity or my guru/former guru sez. However, not only Robin but you also seem willfully uninformed about the subject as described by the texts of traditional advaita. Thus you ask - *What good would it (have done/now do) to examine his experiences in light of other descriptions. * Other descriptions are incidental since they are experiential and can not possibly self-certify knowledge. He might have compared his actual situation with knowledge in Vedanta and realized that no process of experience could ever *be *liberation nor could it ever *give *liberation or some so-called enlightenment. Were he was not indulging in self-delusion, he might have tried to find out more. Then again he was not taught more - nor apparently was he interested in learning more. --- *In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend ** wrote:* --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. * Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment.* Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. *Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi.* He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . * Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@... wrote:
{ cue voice of Combo (deceased tweeker and dealer of
life threatening addictive drugs but righteous in
his own way and forever remembered as providing the
cook RV for the chump change remains of Mr. White's
life savings spent in one night at a strip club) }
thanks for that, yo. a most excellent read.
Great article Mr. Bee. Prolly right that I will read
the book, but not quite yet.
Thought you might like it. WHAT a ROOM that
must be (the Breaking Bad writers' room),
just dripping with creativity. And they've
really pulled out all the stops for the
last eight.
In one of the many recent interviews I have seen, Vince
was asked if the writers ever write themselves into a corner.
He said getting Jesse and Walt out of the RV parked in
the salvage yard with Hank ready to bust down the door
took he and six writers 4 agonizingly long painful days
to solve.
Say, did you take your eye-patch with yas on this trip?
Up to speed on 5.2.2 Buried?
I'd hate to inadvertently grin throw a spoiler out there.
No prob. Just watched it. I really have been
busy being un-busy here in the French country-
side, and only got to it this morning, but I
did watch it. Brilliant, as usual, with not
only all the actors pulling out all the stops,
but the cinematographers as well. *Astounding*
compositions and juxtapositions of color; I
particularly liked the low shot of Lydia's
red-soled Lubotons descending the ladder into
the underground meth lab.
Did you catch the other graffiti on the wall where Heisenberg
is scrawled on Walt's trashed former domicile? Down and to the
left.
Not really. Do tell.
I am afraid one of my worst plot point fears is about to be reified.
Without giving anything away the principles on the show have all
said the show gets much much darker, as each season has. Skyler
is now firmly on Team Walt ostensibly for the good of the family.
Walt Jr/Flynn has been absent since asking permission to go to
Louis's and stay out late...Junior smoking the blue would crush
Sky and change it all up, again.
That would certainly be a plot twist worthy
of these writers, yes.
Or not. Seeing the sweet natured disabled kid sucking the glass
dick would take the show just about as dark as it could ever go.
There's LOTS of dark places they could go to still.
Jesse finding out who allowed his girlfriend to die,
for example.
I'm trying NOT to anticipate, just going with the
flow, as the river flows towards the waterfall.
It really is fascinating watching a show like this
out in the countryside in the Gard (this region of
France), which looks a lot like New Mexico, only
with a few more trees. The house we're renting is
at the outskirts of a very small village (total
population probably less than 200), and other than
the occasional sound of a car going by, all I hear
is the wind in the trees, a few dogs barking, goats
bleating, and a few birds. It makes a great back-
drop for seeing (hearing?) the sights and sounds
(non-sounds?) of New Mexico again. I wouldn't mind
having one of those barrels of cash Walt buried,
so I could afford to buy a place here...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
Article (and book) that I figured you wouldn't want to miss:
http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/08/breaking-bad-writers-room-photos/
http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2013/08/breaking-bad-writers-room-photos/
[FairfieldLife] Graham Green and Russian roulette?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Graham Green and Russian roulette?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Graham Green and Russian roulette?
Hmm, I couldn't watch that video because I'm in England, apparently channel 4 don't mind copyright breaches outside the UK? Another thing, when I hit the reply button the text of the message didn't appear in the reply box as it usual does, which could make conversations difficult round here...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@ wrote: I am afraid one of my worst plot point fears is about to be reified. I just love how you managed to sneak the word reified into a discussion group that's been discussing human beings' tendency to project their beliefs onto the outside world, so much so that they actually consider their perceptions real. :-) Without giving anything away the principles on the show have all said the show gets much much darker, as each season has. Skyler is now firmly on Team Walt ostensibly for the good of the family. Walt Jr/Flynn has been absent since asking permission to go to Louis's and stay out late...Junior smoking the blue would crush Sky and change it all up, again. That would certainly be a plot twist worthy of these writers, yes. What I'm noticing is that the writers seem to be closing the circle on the title of their show. *Everyone* seems to be breaking bad now. Walt's a done deal, and so was Skyler once she found out what he'd been up to and concealed it. But now Hank is so OBSESSED with getting Walt that he's willing to break the law *to* get him. And Marie is willing to grab her sister's baby and steal him. So your plot point fear might be right on, with Junior joining the BB crowd soon. Interestingly, the only person so far displaying any remorse over any of his actions is Jesse. ALL of the others are so lost in a narcissistic fog that they cannot *conceive* of their actions as being anything but right. What I'm finding amusing is how strongly Hank's obsession with getting the object of his obsession parallels the last few weeks (not to mention the last few years) here on Fairfield Life. I'm pretty sure that none of the perps *realize* how badly they're obsessing, because pretty much the only people still willing to talk with them are their fellow perps, but it's been fascinating. The more I withdraw from FFL, the more they obsess on me. One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. Maybe it's just the narcissism thang again. A fanatical cult belief that I Am Good And Better Than Everyone Else may *always* lead to having to find a target out in the world to be better *than*. Anyway, it's all very amusing...
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe. But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, He is Maharishi of course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pfc. Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years
Answer to your serious question: we shall see. As to your other comments; on a more mundane level, it's clear that we all have masculine and feminine aspects. For example, we all have estrogen and testosterone flowing around in our bodies. Given the ever expanding nature of the universe, it makes sense to me that a variety of expressions with regards to gender will be the rule rather than the exception. From: Seraphita s3raph...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 7:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Pfc. Bradley Manning sentenced to 35 years That was the Theosophists' line. They said that all of us are reincarnated over many lifetimes and each of us will experience what it's like to be rich, what it's like to be poor; what it's like to be respected, what it's like to be scorned, and so on . . . including, naturally, each of us will have some of our lives as women and other lives as men. The thinking was that if you were a woman in a previous life and had just now incarnated as a man you could have homosexual tendencies this time around. Or if you were a woman and your next reincarnation was scheduled to be as a man you might have lesbian tendencies. (And various changes on that theme.) What's neat about the theory is that it recognises that homosexuality is unnatural (most people's initial gut reaction?) but it justifies the orientation as being supernaturally ordained. Nice one! (It's a mirror image of the usual liberal approach that any sexual orientation is natural and so acceptable.) Serious question: now that Bradley/Chelsea has requested the new identity does that mean that liberal outlets like CNN will call her Chelsea while conservative outlets like Fox will call him Bradley in their news coverage? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 wrote: I think it was Mike Dixon who had what I think is a plausible explanation from Charlie Lutes: that a person is carrying non physical gender qualities over from a previous life time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Seraphita wrote: - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: Manning says she's always been a woman in her mind/psyche. This Manning chap becomes more embarrassing by the day. From the Wiki article on the US Military and gays I read: While restrictions on sexual orientation have been lifted, restrictions on gender identity remain in place due to Department of Defense regulations; transgender Americans thus continue to be barred from military service. Sorry Chelsea - you're in the wrong line of work. Not any more. She's been dishonorably discharged. She said she joined the Army to try to overcome her sense that she was a woman. Now that the trial is over and she's out of the Army, she's decided to go for it. FWIW, research is increasingly showing that gender dysphoria has biological causes. It's beginning to look as though a man, say, doesn't want to be a woman because he's screwed up, but is screwed up because he wants to be a woman. It's hard to imagine what it must be like to feel you're in the wrong kind of body and to know that everybody thinks you're someone you know you aren't--and for this to be the case from the time you were a very little kid. That would mess with anyone's mind.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Xeno, reading Sam Harris is like drinking cool, clean water from a pristine, gurgling mountain stream. Thanks for posting. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Ironic that the neuroscientists are completely unfamiliar with their conscious minds *not* being in a constant state of thought. White rats, chasing other white rats. A few moments of their own mental peace might turn their attention away from always studying undeveloped minds. It as if science can do no better than to validate an immature state of the mind, because the limited awareness of the scientists, cannot see any further. What a total waste of time. Not true Dr. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist discusses some of this: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/whats-the-point-of-transcendence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
PS to Xeno: but of course I can't help but wonder what Sam Harris would say about my earlier post this morning on the topic of fullness of fullness and fullness of emptiness! From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:52 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Ironic that the neuroscientists are completely unfamiliar with their conscious minds *not* being in a constant state of thought. White rats, chasing other white rats. A few moments of their own mental peace might turn their attention away from always studying undeveloped minds. It as if science can do no better than to validate an immature state of the mind, because the limited awareness of the scientists, cannot see any further. What a total waste of time. Not true Dr. Sam Harris, a neuroscientist discusses some of this: http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/whats-the-point-of-transcendence
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. One way trip to where? What is this you discover you are and that's it? Sorry for the late reply, Ravi. It's a one-way trip to silence, ie no more rebirths. You discover or realise your self. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
[FairfieldLife] Sal, What have you been eating?
England: Queen’s Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabeth’s own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan — let alone eat one — is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that “the whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.” There was “just a swan skeleton left,” she said. “It’s absolutely disgusting, I can’t imagine the kind of people that would do this.” She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. One wonders what the belief of Barry's IS that causes him to color his own perceptions and shape them such that the ego-fantasy that Barry Is Bad has taken over our lives has taken over his life. (Does he realize we've been making fun of him?)
[FairfieldLife] RE: How the deluded see the world....
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@ wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. --- authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present. Which means he was never enlightened in the past. Please note, he also claimed that Khomeni was enlightened. He even seemed to imply that his E was hindu type and Khomeni's E was islamic type.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Graham Green and Russian roulette?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: (replying to cardemaister): snip Another thing, when I hit the reply button the text of the message didn't appear in the reply box as it usual does, which could make conversations difficult round here... This seems to be a new wrinkle for certain posts. Same happened when I replied to feste. I had to copy the text of his post and paste it into my reply, then add the quote prefix characters (). Hasn't happened with anyone else I've replied to so far. What do cardemaister's and feste's posts have in common otherwise, technically speaking?
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah the whole deal with Unity SOC, is that it is still in terms of me. *I* see the world in terms of myself. *I* see and experience oneness in the world. But it is an intermediate step, and was never meant to seem permanent. By associating in Unity with everything experienced, eventually that budges and de-localizes the sense of me. Then experience becomes truly the fullness moving that you mention. Expansion of perception then becomes the single variable in a life lived of unbounded awareness. UC was never a goal, always a bus stop. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating?
Mmmm, . You don't know what you're missing, barbecued with a few boiled potatoes and some mustard with a fried egg on top. A quality bit of foraging. There's too many of the bloody things anyway, we need a bit of predation to keep the numbers down, and if it annoys her majesty all the better! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: England: Queenâs Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabethâs own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan â let alone eat one â is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that âthe whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.â There was âjust a swan skeleton left,â she said. âItâs absolutely disgusting, I canât imagine the kind of people that would do this.â She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- cardemaister@... wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... I think you nailed it Cardeboy. It's like asking a man to go back into his mother's womb. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@... wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. --- authfriend@... wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@ wrote: I am afraid one of my worst plot point fears is about to be reified. I just love how you managed to sneak the word reified into a discussion group that's been discussing human beings' tendency to project their beliefs onto the outside world, so much so that they actually consider their perceptions real. :-) Imagine that, what a strange thing for people to do. Gosh, insane! To have a perception and to think it is real in some way - outrageous. Without giving anything away the principles on the show have all said the show gets much much darker, as each season has. Skyler is now firmly on Team Walt ostensibly for the good of the family. Walt Jr/Flynn has been absent since asking permission to go to Louis's and stay out late...Junior smoking the blue would crush Sky and change it all up, again. That would certainly be a plot twist worthy of these writers, yes. What I'm noticing is that the writers seem to be closing the circle on the title of their show. *Everyone* seems to be breaking bad now. Walt's a done deal, and so was Skyler once she found out what he'd been up to and concealed it. But now Hank is so OBSESSED with getting Walt that he's willing to break the law *to* get him. And Marie is willing to grab her sister's baby and steal him. So your plot point fear might be right on, with Junior joining the BB crowd soon. Interestingly, the only person so far displaying any remorse over any of his actions is Jesse. ALL of the others are so lost in a narcissistic fog that they cannot *conceive* of their actions as being anything but right. I knew it, you were going to just have to fall into your tendency to project your perceptions on the outside world as if they were real. Shame, shame. And, surprise, it's all about FFL! What I'm finding amusing is how strongly Hank's obsession with getting the object of his obsession parallels the last few weeks (not to mention the last few years) here on Fairfield Life. I'm pretty sure that none of the perps *realize* how badly they're obsessing, because pretty much the only people still willing to talk with them are their fellow perps, but it's been fascinating. The more I withdraw from FFL, the more they obsess on me. No, the more you withdraw from FFL (you don't seem to be withdrawing, you're still thinking about it and talking about everyone here as much as always) the less we will likely need to address and correct your misperceptions on the 'real' world. The only result of your withdrawing completely is that you won't be here to talk to anymore. But you don't need to play that game; whether you're here or not neither makes you more or less important to anything. One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. Ohhh see, you WERE talking about us all the time, not some TV show. I have to go now and obsess on you some more; I don't have time to sit here and type to you. Maybe it's just the narcissism thang again. A fanatical cult belief that I Am Good And Better Than Everyone Else may *always* lead to having to find a target out in the world to be better *than*. Anyway, it's all very amusing...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. One wonders what the belief of Barry's IS that causes him to color his own perceptions and shape them such that the ego-fantasy that Barry Is Bad has taken over our lives has taken over his life. (Does he realize we've been making fun of him?) His statement can only draw one (He thinks They, their, as one entity of all those he imagines who think he is bad.) conclusion: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/paranoia http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/paranoia He might want to seek some medical help about this situation. But if he divests himself of his paranoid delusions then who is he going to have as imaginary friends and enemies? He'll be so LONELY.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Mmmm, . You don't know what you're missing, barbecued with a few boiled potatoes and some mustard with a fried egg on top. A quality bit of foraging. There's too many of the bloody things anyway, we need a bit of predation to keep the numbers down, and if it annoys her majesty all the better! My opinion about human beings. I would imagine swan is awfully greasy like goose and duck. And whatever they're eating out of the Thames can't be good. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: England: Queenâs Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabethâs own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan â let alone eat one â is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that âthe whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.â There was âjust a swan skeleton left,â she said. âItâs absolutely disgusting, I canât imagine the kind of people that would do this.â She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. One wonders what the belief of Barry's IS that causes him to color his own perceptions and shape them such that the ego-fantasy that Barry Is Bad has taken over our lives has taken over his life. (Does he realize we've been making fun of him?) His statement can only draw one (He thinks They, their, as one entity of all those he imagines who think he is bad.) conclusion: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/paranoia http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/paranoia He might want to seek some medical help about this situation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. --- authfriend authfriend@... wrote: One wonders what the belief of Barry's IS that causes him to color his own perceptions and shape them such that the ego-fantasy that Barry Is Bad has taken over our lives has taken over his life. (Does he realize we've been making fun of him?) But, but, he isn't supposed to be reading the posts of the 'mean girls'.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chilling
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: One wonders what the belief they all share IS that causes them to color their own perceptions and shape them such that the Barry Is Bad meme has basically taken over their lives. One wonders what the belief of Barry's IS that causes him to color his own perceptions and shape them such that the ego-fantasy that Barry Is Bad has taken over our lives has taken over his life. (Does he realize we've been making fun of him?) His statement can only draw one (He thinks They, their, as one entity of all those he imagines who think he is bad.) conclusion: http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/paranoia He might want to seek some medical help about this situation. But if he divests himself of his paranoid delusions then who is he going to have as imaginary friends and enemies? He'll be so LONELY. Yes, and he can find one of these type of places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_lonely_will_anyone_speak_to_me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_lonely_will_anyone_speak_to_me and/or when a FFL Group Reunion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19k-YtwXTg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O19k-YtwXTg comes, along, we will find out the real reasons he behaves this way. :) MJ, you have that vacation home ready yet?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating?
I recall my father-in-law talking about duck hunting in San Francisco Bay, years ago, and how when he got the ducks home and cooked one, it had a very fishy flavor, couldn't eat it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Mmmm, . You don't know what you're missing, barbecued with a few boiled potatoes and some mustard with a fried egg on top. A quality bit of foraging. There's too many of the bloody things anyway, we need a bit of predation to keep the numbers down, and if it annoys her majesty all the better! My opinion about human beings. I would imagine swan is awfully greasy like goose and duck. And whatever they're eating out of the Thames can't be good. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: England: Queenâs Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabethâs own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan â let alone eat one â is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that âthe whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.â There was âjust a swan skeleton left,â she said. âItâs absolutely disgusting, I canât imagine the kind of people that would do this.â She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
That's allright Emily. Robin is really a warm, friendly, kind, compasssionate person. The point is I was making an assessment objectively as possible. This dosen't make him any less of a human being. He too is a seeker like the rest of us. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Jason, I concede to ignorance on the matter of enlightenment. Now, an enlightenment experience is something else altogether in my mind. My conscience had a pang (I'd like to call it a moment of enlightenment) on my drive towards the ocean today (my life is like a milk run - I have so many stops I can never get anywhere) and I'd like to apologize for the rude and crude term (pull your head out of your ass) I used. I was channeling my father on that one, but as I'm trying to teach my children that they can't blame *everything* on their mother, I will give dear old dad a break on this. I won't say that one again - even to Barry. I could also blame my rudeness on the cup of coffee, the upset within over the situation in Syria, or the idea that I find the discussion of whether or not Robin was enlightened, was never enlightened (according to certain criteria), is still enlightened and doesn't know it, etc. etc., kind of pointless. However, I'll just stick with the apology and tell you that I'm sorry I was such a jerk. Emily. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I think they know it already. And like the rest of us, doing their best to live this knowing in life (-: From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:24 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  To your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened, the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: That's allright Emily. Robin is really a warm, friendly, kind, compasssionate person. Yes. Thank you for making that point, Jason. One would never know this from the way some here go after him, though. The point is I was making an assessment objectively as possible. This dosen't make him any less of a human being. He too is a seeker like the rest of us. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Jason, I concede to ignorance on the matter of enlightenment. Now, an enlightenment experience is something else altogether in my mind. My conscience had a pang (I'd like to call it a moment of enlightenment) on my drive towards the ocean today (my life is like a milk run - I have so many stops I can never get anywhere) and I'd like to apologize for the rude and crude term (pull your head out of your ass) I used. I was channeling my father on that one, but as I'm trying to teach my children that they can't blame *everything* on their mother, I will give dear old dad a break on this. I won't say that one again - even to Barry. I could also blame my rudeness on the cup of coffee, the upset within over the situation in Syria, or the idea that I find the discussion of whether or not Robin was enlightened, was never enlightened (according to certain criteria), is still enlightened and doesn't know it, etc. etc., kind of pointless. However, I'll just stick with the apology and tell you that I'm sorry I was such a jerk. Emily. --- emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Re: You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience. Of course he did, you numbskull - not that he now considers it the accurate reality by which life is lived. You should be able to pick up on this - even I, with enlightenment experiences (back in the day) attributable only to LSD, have the requisite brain cells left necessary to objectively determine this fact. You haven't done your research. Clearly he wrote sincerely - back then and now (and even as the Master of Irony - he's sincere - that's the brilliance of it all, really). Jason, you need to pull your head out of your ass on this and go get a cuppa something. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: I agree that he wrote sincerely. However, I doubt that he was really in enlightenment or any higher state. Robin's recount of those experiences simply doesn't tally with the accounts of other yogis and seekers. Basicaly, in eastern philosophy enlightenment is an one way trip. You discover who you are and that's it. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip Uh-huh. Delusional then, when thinking that the Ayatollah Khomeini was in Unity Consciousness (just like him) but so NOT delusional now, when trying to blame all of this on intelligences and forces beyond his own control and understanding. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: For the record, Robin has repeatedly blamed his own character flaws for the ability of these intelligences and forces he speaks of to influence him. Barry carefully omits to mention this. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: You mean something like the devil or satan? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: I suppose something *like* that, but you'd have to ask him. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Could it be 'Dissociative Identity Disorder'? http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm http://sfhelp.org/gwc/false_self.htm Robin's statement is downright schizophrenic. Oh? Would you like to elaborate? (Which statement?) --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: He speaks as if he literally sees these intelligences and forces, which IMO are imaginary. Has it occured to you that it's *you* who could be in delusion about Robin's enlightenment and experiences? What would my delusion be, exactly? What do you think my beliefs are about Robin? Just out of curiosity, do you believe there is no intelligence nor any forces in the universe beyond your control and understanding? You speak as if he really had an enlightenment experience.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
excuses, excuses! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think they know it already. And like the rest of us, doing their best to live this knowing in life (-: From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:24 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Sounds good - please pass this along to those practicing the sidhi techniques! :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: I'd say this is why Maharishi came out with the sidhas: so that these concepts do not have to be torture but can be simply yet fully lived. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world àTo your last point, yes, these concepts are torture, if they are not realized. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Ãâà--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I wasn't aware that we disagreed on what the nature of that more is? Can you explain, please? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move -
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Does Judy go to the Dome? I am confused. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
I don't think the more in UC has to do with identity. I think in CC the identity is already infinite. But not perception, and there is duality between that and the finest relative in GC. In UC the duality drops away. In Brahman it drops away not only in terms of the first object of perception but for all of them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I wasn't aware that we disagreed on what the nature of that more is? Can you explain, please? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I think we're saying the same thing, simply using different language. I agree that the Me Self of CC and the Me Self of GC are the same, infinite, absolute, fullness of fullness NON CHANGING. **Although the Jiva is realized in CC and GC, there is further for it to go, in realizing its infinite identity. So although it is in essence, non-changing, in terms of our relationship with it, it DOES change, and expand further from its state in CC and GC, and UC. Infinity becoming more infinite, not simply in terms of its potential, but in terms of its identity. But in CC the relative is seen as separate and different, ever changing. Actually Maharishi calls the relative a mass of death, because of its ever changing quality. It is not until the finest relative joins the Me Self in infinitude that UC is realized. **Yes, although the dynamic is similar, there is an identity shift that occurs after UC. Unity Consciousness is recognizing the oneness between you and me. Still an ego-trip. **There are similar dynamics of transcendence and growth, in every stage, as the Jiva matures, but each phase serves a distinct purpose, and it is incorrect to say that the journey from CC to GC, is the same as that from UC, on. So, we are not really saying the same thing, though both descriptions are related, as being part of the overall process of enlightenment. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:28 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world à--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: I've never seen anyone in the Dome with a map out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. Ayuh. And brain-farts, too, IIRC, at least in the men's dome. I hear the women are too lady-like for that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating?
Depends on the kind of duck - the ones I have had in Chinese restaurants have all been mighty tasty. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:01 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating? I recall my father-in-law talking about duck hunting in San Francisco Bay, years ago, and how when he got the ducks home and cooked one, it had a very fishy flavor, couldn't eat it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Mmmm, . You don't know what you're missing, barbecued with a few boiled potatoes and some mustard with a fried egg on top. A quality bit of foraging. There's too many of the bloody things anyway, we need a bit of predation to keep the numbers down, and if it annoys her majesty all the better! My opinion about human beings. I would imagine swan is awfully greasy like goose and duck. And whatever they're eating out of the Thames can't be good. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: England: Queen’s Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabeth’s own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan †let alone eat one †is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that “the whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.†There was “just a swan skeleton left,†she said. “It’s absolutely disgusting, I can’t imagine the kind of people that would do this.†She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. --- iranitea no_reply@ wrote: Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. (Just for the record, iranitea's reply is meaningless in the context of what he was commenting on. He knows that but was just trying to be clever.) --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present. Which means he was never enlightened in the past. Maybe, maybe not. Please note, he also claimed that Khomeni was enlightened. Um, yes, did you think I wasn't aware of this? He even seemed to imply that his E was hindu type and Khomeni's E was islamic type. Sort of, yes. Different religious contexts. And...? You know, it's just so *foolish* for anyone here to try to discern what it was that happened to Robin some 36 years ago. It's foolish *in general* for any of us to try to determine another person's state of consciousness. We just are not in a position to know when the only actual *data* we have are what the person him/herself says about his/her subjective experience. And it's even more of a limitation when that data is in the form of words on a monitor screen, rather than a live encounter with the person himself. What is truly ludicrous--infantile, in fact, not to mention obnoxious--is to argue with or even *attack* a person for describing his subjective experience as enlightenment, as if you could possibly know more about the nature of what he experienced than he does on the basis of your book-larnin' (or even your own experiences). Jason, you said in your post to Emily that you were just trying to be objective. Well, you really can't *be* objective about another person's *subjective* state. Seems to me the appropriate stance toward a person who has made a claim of enlightenment, currently or in the past, is a neutral one, without judgment one way or the other. Just accept what the person says for what it is, asking questions if what the person says is unclear. Don't try to stuff them into some box to fit *your* understanding of what enlightenment is and isn't, no matter how many ancient texts you've studied. And don't sell the universe--nature--short. There's more than one way to skin a cat, more ways than any of us are able to imagine. I would go so far as to say that no two individuals have ever developed enlightenment the same way, or experienced it the same way once it was developed. Enlightenment just isn't *conceptual*.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Well as Shrek would say, better out than in! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@ wrote: Dom, dom, I think he meant, nap out. Typo, I guess. ;) One sees lots of napping in the domes. Ayuh. And brain-farts, too, IIRC, at least in the men's dome. I hear the women are too lady-like for that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Dear Buck, Welcome back, Cowboy! Y Haw The only ads I am getting from all this great enlightening conversation on this FFL Yahoo Group Forum with key words such as, mean girls, below; vvv A real Yahoo email side bar ad (and it ain't about homos or anything added to em.) http://www.nastygal.com/whats-new/?utm_source=yahoo_displayutm_medium=b\ annerutm_campaign=displayutm_term=cpa_usutm_content=300x250_new_arriv\ als_evergreen http://www.nastygal.com/whats-new/?utm_source=yahoo_displayutm_medium=\ bannerutm_campaign=displayutm_term=cpa_usutm_content=300x250_new_arri\ vals_evergreen I have not read the word Nasty, once this past week on the forum, but I think Yahoo is loving up the group by giving us some special ad notices! Why not just nip off the top 3 or 4 posters and all will be solved? Just saying. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
In the Veda is written Brahman says: my indestructible maya Maybe the world is simply God's self deluded brain fart! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Actually Obbajee, I think Buck suggested such a nipping once before! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, obbajeeba no_reply@... wrote: Dear Buck, Welcome back, Cowboy! Y Haw The only ads I am getting from all this great enlightening conversation on this FFL Yahoo Group Forum with key words such as, mean girls, below; vvv A real Yahoo email side bar ad (and it ain't about homos or anything added to em.) http://www.nastygal.com/whats-new/?utm_source=yahoo_displayutm_medium=b\ annerutm_campaign=displayutm_term=cpa_usutm_content=300x250_new_arriv\ als_evergreen http://www.nastygal.com/whats-new/?utm_source=yahoo_displayutm_medium=\ bannerutm_campaign=displayutm_term=cpa_usutm_content=300x250_new_arri\ vals_evergreen I have not read the word Nasty, once this past week on the forum, but I think Yahoo is loving up the group by giving us some special ad notices! Why not just nip off the top 3 or 4 posters and all will be solved? Just saying. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Agreed that a huge percentage of posts here are ad hominum, and usually made by the same people over and over and over. I think they enjoy that type of interaction, thrive on it even. Not my style, though. And not at all the way things used to be here, as you know. One solution is not to read them. At all. Works for me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Thanks, Share, Brain farts made me think of combustion. Does belief make this happen, or is it just a spontaneous en-lighting experience? http://in.screen.yahoo.com/baby-catches-fire-own-173000572.html http://in.screen.yahoo.com/baby-catches-fire-own-173000572.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 wrote: In the Veda is written Brahman says: my indestructible maya Maybe the world is simply God's self deluded brain fart! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Graham Green and Russian roulette?
Same for me when I replied to feste. Is FFL under a Stuxnet computer-worm attack? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: This seems to be a new wrinkle for certain posts. Same happened when I replied to feste.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sal, What have you been eating?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Mmmm, . You don't know what you're missing, barbecued with a few boiled potatoes and some mustard with a fried egg on top. A quality bit of foraging. There's too many of the bloody things anyway, we need a bit of predation to keep the numbers down, and if it annoys her majesty all the better! My opinion about human beings. Hey, I draw the line at eating people.. I would imagine swan is awfully greasy like goose and duck. And whatever they're eating out of the Thames can't be good. I've never eaten any of them actually, but I was under the impression duck was a delicacy? A lot of them got stolen from our local pond, I saw a young Asian kid grabbing one and putting it under his coat once, he looked terrified when he saw me but I just laughed, I'd much prefer he got wild food than some poor creature that's been locked in a cage its whole life. Others disagreed and popular pressure made it too risky for people to take birds (or fish) so now there are so many geese that half of our once lovely park is covered in stinky bird shit and no one knows what to do about it. Shoot the bloody things I say. Or release some wolves, that might get your human population down too. Win win! BTW I think the Thames is a lot cleaner than it used to be, you get actual fish in it now! But the ducks are a sickly bunch coz they just eat the bread that people throw them, thinking they're doing them a favour. Poor little things. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: England: Queenâs Swan Is Barbecued and Eaten By STEVEN ERLANGER Published: August 21, 2013 The charred carcass of one of Queen Elizabethâs own swans was found on a riverbank near Windsor Castle after having been barbecued and eaten, according to the police and a charity called Swan Lifeline. The swan was one of about 200 that live on Baths Island and belong to the queen. Until 1998, under a law dating to the 12th century, killing or injuring a swan was classified as treason, and the crown retains ownership of all unmarked mute swans in areas along the River Thames. Wild swans are also protected under a 1981 act, and to injure or kill a swan â let alone eat one â is against the law. Wendy Hermon of Swan Lifeline said that âthe whole breast had been removed, and it looked like it had been eaten for lunch.â There was âjust a swan skeleton left,â she said. âItâs absolutely disgusting, I canât imagine the kind of people that would do this.â She said the carcass, with its feathers still attached, was taken by her group to be cremated.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck Let's go back to 50 a week and stop the endless dross.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
salyavin, in order for there to be ANY posting limit, someone would have to volunteer to be its enforcer. BTW I vote for 70 per week. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck Let's go back to 50 a week and stop the endless dross.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Yup, I find a lot of the chatter here boring. Like Rick, I have a filter that copies any message that addresses me to a sub folder on Thunderbird. On 08/23/2013 08:29 AM, Susan wrote: Agreed that a huge percentage of posts here are ad hominum, and usually made by the same people over and over and over. I think they enjoy that type of interaction, thrive on it even. Not my style, though. And not at all the way things used to be here, as you know. One solution is not to read them. At all. Works for me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Buck, how is the lambing and calving and plowing and so forth going? From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] HAPPINESS: hedonic and higher purpose types and our genes
Interesting article on the biology of how different types of happiness affect us physically. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/23/what-our-genes-reveal-about-true-happiness/?ref=health
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of salyavin808 Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:53 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck Let's go back to 50 a week and stop the endless dross. If the general consensus is to do so, we'll do so after Alex has had his month's reprieve.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Google? There is an alternative . . .
The BIG problem with Google is lack of senior management. Their credo is to turn a bunch of young people loose on projects and see what they come up with. So some young engineer thinks that maybe capturing the wifi SSIDs of home networks when driving a Google Maps car through a neighborhood might be useful someday and hey it might actually reward him with a better position at Google. If he had a more senior manager looking over his work he might be asked if he didn't feel that was an intrusion into privacy and maybe something Google might not want in the code because it WOULD raise privacy issues. Of course there will those who call fie on this because supposedly Google was funded by the CIA. Maybe they were. I call Google a lemonade stand because of the lack of senior guidance at the company. I beat them hard over their engineer dumps which are supposed to be documentation for Android. Lately I've been doing some C# programming and once again when I look up something for C# on Microsoft's site I get a short concise definition as well as a too the point short example of the function. On Android there is some long winded rambling description and some poor example code that sorta fails to explain use properly. Google feels they don't have time to finish things because they need to stay ahead of the crowd and rush on to the next big thing. On 08/22/2013 08:09 PM, Seraphita wrote: Yahoo websites attracted more US visitors than Google in July, according to the most recent internet traffic numbers. A victory for Google's first female engineer, Marissa Mayer, who left Google to become CEO of Yahoo. Google are becoming a bit creepy and nosy-parkerish aren't they?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Also, how is the weather out there this summer? Las Was this summer more typical weather, hotter than normal, what? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Buck, how is the lambing and calving and plowing and so forth going? From: Buck dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. Â Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Susan, this summer has definitely been milder than previous summers. We even had a cool spell back in July which is really amazing, but very welcome. Another hot spell is on its way, with temps in high 80s, low 90s, and I'm hoping it will be the last of the season. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: Also, how is the weather out there this summer? Las Was this summer more typical weather, hotter than normal, what? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Buck, how is the lambing and calving and plowing and so forth going? From: Buck dhamiltony2k5@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:06 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. Â Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
I thought Alex said, essentially, find someone else to replace him. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of salyavin808 Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:53 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place. Sincerely, -Buck Let's go back to 50 a week and stop the endless dross. If the general consensus is to do so, we'll do so after Alex has had his month's reprieve.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: If the general consensus is to do so, we'll do so after Alex has had his month's reprieve. Perhaps, you missed it, Rick, but I made it clear in an earlier post that if you restore the posting limits, you will need to appoint another moderator to enforce it, i.e., keep track of overposters and shut off/restore posting privileges. I will continue to host the post count script on the crusty old Dell laptop, and I'll handle the usual subscriptions, spammers, files, etc. But, if you don't appoint another moderator, I will simply ignore any overposting. As for who to appoint, IMO, the heavy users of the group should be the ones to handle enforcement of the posting limits.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
A Tattoo?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
OK. I personally greatly enjoyed the story of the seven states of consciousness - Kept me occupied for years, as I continued TM, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
What? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: My (admittedly dim) recollection of the whole emptiness vs. fullness dialectic is it was simply two ways of seeing Brahman or Wholeness -- the Nirguna, essentially Wholeness perceived through the mind as No-thing, the unchanging Void, which may take over all of the relative in a kind of Dark Night of the Soul (or crucifixion or Nirvana); and the Saguna, or Wholeness perceived through the heart as Every-thing, discovered on ceasing the hitherto-unconscious resistance to the unchanging Void (and judgment of out there), and surrendering whole-heartedly into That as the Emptiful Us (or resurrection)... but doubtless this is merely the self-deluded brain-fart of a raving tranced-out guru wanna-be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I am sorry, but this is incorrect, Share. The movement from CC to GC is one of perceiving the finest relative. This gives the mind the entire spectrum of perceived reality to consider, but is not the movement from UC, onward. Both the me of CC, and the me of GC are the same. There can also be finest perception in GC and not a shred of UC. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: iranitea, I would say that this is a description of the movement from CC to GC where fullness of fullness, the Absolute moves into the fullness of emptiness, the relative. The Self in CC has recognized that there is something else and the heartfelt inquiry into what that something else is, fuels the ability to overcome the fear of that emptiness. Of course under the influence of a soma laden physiology, especially the heart, that emptiness turns out to be the fullness of emptiness so not separate at all. And would it not be wonderful if these concepts were not merely allegorical but also quite literal, mean physical. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:13 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Dr.D this is an interesting POV, what you say makes sense (even though, I don't know what is really the case here). But it does remind me of a series of tapes - probably the spiritual development course - where he speaks of the fullness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness (both he calls 'fullness'). Obviously emptiness is synonymous of duality here. (I don't think he means the emptiness of the Buddhists). He then goes on to describe, that the fullness, obviously Unity, despite of the fact that it is everywhere, senses, that there is a place where it is not,at least the possibility of such a place, emptiness, and he speaks of Fullness moving because of the fear it has of emptiness - Fullness is on the move - was the phrase he used. I always thought, this is highly allegorically, fullness on the move would be a synonym for Shakti, but may be it is borne out of an experience, just like the one you describe.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Google? There is an alternative . . .
I knew the guy that developed Google maps before it was sold to Google, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the funding came from the govt. The CIA very openly started an incubator fund in Silicon Valley in the 90's. I remember reading about it, though haven't heard anything since - big surprise. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: The BIG problem with Google is lack of senior management. Their credo is to turn a bunch of young people loose on projects and see what they come up with. So some young engineer thinks that maybe capturing the wifi SSIDs of home networks when driving a Google Maps car through a neighborhood might be useful someday and hey it might actually reward him with a better position at Google. If he had a more senior manager looking over his work he might be asked if he didn't feel that was an intrusion into privacy and maybe something Google might not want in the code because it WOULD raise privacy issues. Of course there will those who call fie on this because supposedly Google was funded by the CIA. Maybe they were. I call Google a lemonade stand because of the lack of senior guidance at the company. I beat them hard over their engineer dumps which are supposed to be documentation for Android. Lately I've been doing some C# programming and once again when I look up something for C# on Microsoft's site I get a short concise definition as well as a too the point short example of the function. On Android there is some long winded rambling description and some poor example code that sorta fails to explain use properly. Google feels they don't have time to finish things because they need to stay ahead of the crowd and rush on to the next big thing. On 08/22/2013 08:09 PM, Seraphita wrote: Yahoo websites attracted more US visitors than Google in July, according to the most recent internet traffic numbers. A victory for Google's first female engineer, Marissa Mayer, who left Google to become CEO of Yahoo. Google are becoming a bit creepy and nosy-parkerish aren't they?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:
Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The
lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their
diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community
here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument
on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here
with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different
needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place.
Sincerely,
-Buck
'These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too
much', is an ad hominem argument itself. The way to have a spiritual and free
place is experiencing enlightenment.
I myself prefer a leaner post count, but if you muzzle people too much they
have no opportunity to grow. The only weapons here are words, ideas. No guns.
Unenlightened persons that think of themselves as individualised beings in a
larger universe have no experiential recourse but to argue on the level of
individual fault and blame because that is how they see how it works - they see
others as intentional entities with an intentional stance that are the source
of their dismay, whatever that may be.
In the wide world if one group wants to suppress another and deny them the
ability to express themselves without redress, often the only way to prevent
that is to temporarily adopt the same strategy and kill them all, like what is
happening in Egypt. The problem is if temporary becomes permanent, after the
offending group is vanquished or sufficiently suppressed. Every civilisation
has a prison population, either in special housing, or walking around; balance
of freedom versus the effort to contain is delicate if you want to maximise
freedom; there always seems to be a breakdown point where you have either
anarchy or authoritarianism and progress is lost.
The Muslim Brotherhood of Buck is not what I want. I have you in my sights, but
the gun is not loaded... yet.
Considering the way you often post, a bit at a time, re-quoting what you said
before, I would think unlimited posting would be ideal for that. But that kind
of post does not require any creative thought. Every once in a while that spark
shows up Buck, but you deny yourself the practice to express it, and instead
might as well be copying and pasting the telephone book.
Currently Rick is the master of this place, a small, thin column of text that
flows in a thousand streams.
'Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.
Men at some time are masters of their fates.
The fault, dear {Bucky}, is not in our stars
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.'
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
ooops...:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@... wrote: Yeah, a lot of chapters. But I think that thing about being without the three gunas is in chapter 2. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yeah, a lot of chapters. But I think that thing about being without the three gunas is in chapter 2. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
Grand Pappi Xeno, I love you! Hug hug hug.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
anartaxius@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing.
The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their
diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community
here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of
argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and
community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical,
something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free
place.
Sincerely,
-Buck
'These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is
too much', is an ad hominem argument itself. The way to have a spiritual and
free place is experiencing enlightenment.
I myself prefer a leaner post count, but if you muzzle people too much they
have no opportunity to grow. The only weapons here are words, ideas. No guns.
Unenlightened persons that think of themselves as individualised beings in a
larger universe have no experiential recourse but to argue on the level of
individual fault and blame because that is how they see how it works - they
see others as intentional entities with an intentional stance that are the
source of their dismay, whatever that may be.
In the wide world if one group wants to suppress another and deny them the
ability to express themselves without redress, often the only way to prevent
that is to temporarily adopt the same strategy and kill them all, like what
is happening in Egypt. The problem is if temporary becomes permanent, after
the offending group is vanquished or sufficiently suppressed. Every
civilisation has a prison population, either in special housing, or walking
around; balance of freedom versus the effort to contain is delicate if you
want to maximise freedom; there always seems to be a breakdown point where
you have either anarchy or authoritarianism and progress is lost.
The Muslim Brotherhood of Buck is not what I want. I have you in my sights,
but the gun is not loaded... yet.
Considering the way you often post, a bit at a time, re-quoting what you said
before, I would think unlimited posting would be ideal for that. But that
kind of post does not require any creative thought. Every once in a while
that spark shows up Buck, but you deny yourself the practice to express it,
and instead might as well be copying and pasting the telephone book.
Currently Rick is the master of this place, a small, thin column of text that
flows in a thousand streams.
'Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.
Men at some time are masters of their fates.
The fault, dear {Bucky}, is not in our stars
But in ourselves, that we are underlings.'
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place How about we few without verbal diarrhoea hire some hitmen to break the fingers of anyone who goes over 50 a week? Not spiritual enough? Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. - Ripley, Aliens
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yep, I can agree that the ego trip of CC, IS, as you imply, *significantly different* than the ego trip of UC, especially from the EGO's POV - LOL. So, please enjoy your UC ego trip, Share, and I mean that sincerely! I love you too!:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: ooops...:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Yeah, a lot of chapters. But I think that thing about being without the three gunas is in chapter 2. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: You can take that up with Krishna. PS The Gita has a lot of Chapters, doesn't it? - 18 or something. Yeah, the space between CC and UC is almost insignificant, given that both are ego trips. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, if Arjuna had been in UC at the beginning of the Gita, then Krishna would not have needed to tell him to be without the three gunas! From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:29 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world  Robin could have been in Unity consciousness, where similarity predominates, over differences. But that SOC is still relative to one's singular identity. The identity must shift to a less localized state to grow beyond the Unity SOC. The core fear of duality is still present in the Unity SOC, although the perception that this duality is an illusion begins to take hold, due to the incontrovertible oneness that the heart and intellect begin to sense, outwardly. Unity isn't the end of the road, simply the furthest Maharishi could go with a symptomatic description. Unity is not the same thing as Yoga, or Union, comprehensively. Unity SOC is the state of Arjuna's mind before Krishna's discourse takes him beyond That. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Yep, went back and read posts 312097 and 299555. I pointed out to the Muni of Monte Cassino (a number of times) that none of the descriptions of his purported Unity Consciousness conform to Shankara's explanations - whether in the BrahmaSutraBhasya, UpanishadBhasya or BhagavadGitaBhasya. Such grand enlightenment appears to have been Robin's own neo-Advaitic epiphanies later aggrandized and grafted upon Maharishi's explanations. Nuh-uh. Maharishi's teaching was where he first encountered explanations of enlightenment. Maharishi's descriptions themselves are a form of neo-yogic advaita and Robin was unwilling to tacitly match his own purported enlightenment with the explanations of traditional advaita. Right. He was a disciple of Maharishi. He wouldn't even continue a conversation bringing it up for consideration. This unwillingness was, for me, a clue to Robin's delusive self-absorption . Actually it was completely irrelevant. Think about it for a minute. What good would it have done him at this point to consider matching his experience with that of other descriptions? What good would it have done him back then, for that matter? You've really never made any sense on this topic, empty.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Maybe one of those temporary ones... 'cause, you know, we might change our minds someday :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: A Tattoo?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Yes, me tattoo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: OK. I personally greatly enjoyed the story of the seven states of consciousness - Kept me occupied for years, as I continued TM, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
I like it! Sort of the FFL version of the Pandits. Every few months, Rick could plead for us all to contribute, to bring more Enforcers to FFL, citing glowing statistics of how the on-line environment has improved, as a result of busting some heads. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Rick, the post-count experiment as a noble hope is clearly failing. The lowest form of writing and argument evidently dominates FFL with their diluting flood of the post-count of FFL. As an elder of the FFL community here I implore you Rick, please save our FFL from the lowest form of argument on FFL, the Ad hominem . These people's abuse of the list and community here with the Ad hominem is too much. Something radical, something different needs to be done to save FFL as a spiritual and free place How about we few without verbal diarrhoea hire some hitmen to break the fingers of anyone who goes over 50 a week? Not spiritual enough? Sincerely, -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
My point ed-zackerly, no pfun intended. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: Maybe one of those temporary ones... 'cause, you know, we might change our minds someday :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: A Tattoo?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
OH, I get it now -- Tattoo am asi; Om Tattoo Sat! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: A Tattoo?? :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60 sharelong60@ wrote: Doc, I agree that there is more to go after UC. I'd say we disagree on what the nature of that more is. Maybe it's like this: I am That CC Thou art That GC All this is That UC That alone is Brahman One of my all-time favorite formulas! (Or stories, if you prefer) :-)
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Stanley Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:50 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@... mailto:rick@... wrote: If the general consensus is to do so, we'll do so after Alex has had his month's reprieve. Perhaps, you missed it, Rick, but I made it clear in an earlier post that if you restore the posting limits, you will need to appoint another moderator to enforce it, i.e., keep track of overposters and shut off/restore posting privileges. I will continue to host the post count script on the crusty old Dell laptop, and I'll handle the usual subscriptions, spammers, files, etc. But, if you don't appoint another moderator, I will simply ignore any overposting. As for who to appoint, IMO, the heavy users of the group should be the ones to handle enforcement of the posting limits. Isn't that a bit like appointing the foxes to guard the hen house?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL.
cluck, cluck, cluck...nuthin' but us chickens here, Rick. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Stanley Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:50 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Eliminating the Ad hominem Post-count on FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ mailto:rick@ wrote: If the general consensus is to do so, we'll do so after Alex has had his month's reprieve. Perhaps, you missed it, Rick, but I made it clear in an earlier post that if you restore the posting limits, you will need to appoint another moderator to enforce it, i.e., keep track of overposters and shut off/restore posting privileges. I will continue to host the post count script on the crusty old Dell laptop, and I'll handle the usual subscriptions, spammers, files, etc. But, if you don't appoint another moderator, I will simply ignore any overposting. As for who to appoint, IMO, the heavy users of the group should be the ones to handle enforcement of the posting limits. Isn't that a bit like appointing the foxes to guard the hen house?
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the deluded see the world....
Boss Boss de plane de plane!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, RoryGoff rorygoff@... wrote: Yes, me tattoo! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: OK. I personally greatly enjoyed the story of the seven states of consciousness - Kept me occupied for years, as I continued TM, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Yeah, that's what I meant too. It makes perfect sense after the fact, but as a map, it sucks, big time. That isn't what I'm saying either. Never mind. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I agree. If a person schemes to become enlightened Not what I meant by scheme. I meant something like Maharishi's Seven States of Consciousness--an outline, a format, a schedule, a list of symptoms. , the very best that they can do is exhaust themselves, which oddly enough is how awakening happens. So, yes, there never has and never will be a process followed that results in liberation. The wraiths on the MUM campus prove that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Over the years I've been on this forum, I have gradually ceased to believe that there is a universally applicable scheme for the development of enlightenment, such that if someone doesn't have *this* experience or does have *that* experience, it means they are (or are not) enlightened. Some experiences (or lack of same) may be more common than others, but you can't make absolute, across-the-board rules that apply to all individuals without exception, any more than you can do it with the experience of falling in love. The uniqueness of first-person ontology remains just that. My opinion, anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Actually it is true, or at least I have verified it for myself, that pure awareness cannot be destroyed (muddied?) after it is established - Believe me, I have tried, diligently!! The very curious thing, though, is that someone can have a lot of pure awareness established, and yet, until they wake up from their dream of ego-bound identity, and surrender completely, the pure awareness stays largely hidden from view. I look at it as God's game of, I'll show you mine, if you show me yours. You go first. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: cardemaister wrote: As per yoga-suutras, when one reaches enlightenment (kaivalya), the guNa-s become puruSaartha-shuunya. AFAIK, there's no force or power in the universe that could reverse that process... That's the standard belief, yes. Maybe it's not correct? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Robin claims enlightenment *in the past*, decades ago. Enlightenment is always *in the present*, never in the past. Robin does not claim to be enlightened in the present.
