[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??

2005-10-02 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   snip
Hmmm... how big a difference would it make if
one translated samaadhau to 'in samaadhi' instead
of 'to samaadhi'? I seem to recall that Vyaasa or 
Bhoja comments that siddhis tend to make samaadhi weaker, but 
 they
don't obstruct it alltogether (provided I've understood
the Sanskrit approximately correctly).
   
   Don't know nuttin' about the Sanskrit, but recall
   that according to MMY, the function of practicing
   the TM-Sidhis is to challenge samadhi, as with
   the metaphor of the sun fading the yellow dye in the
   context of plain-vanilla TM.  Activity following
   meditation challenges the samadhi that remains
   after meditation, which ultimately results in
   strengthening it and making it permanent.
   
   The intense color of the dye when the cloth comes
   out of the dye vat is weakened by the sun, but
   what remains is what has become permanent.  The
   permanent part is added to incrementally with each
   dip into the vat until it's all permanent.  But
   that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't weakened
   by the sun each time.
   
   Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but
   the possible parallel struck me as interesting.
  
  The sidhis challenge/weaken samadhi on the most fundamental level 
  possible.
 
 You know, I never connected the yellow dye analogy
 with the TM-Sidhis' challenge to samadhi before;
 I sure don't recall the parallel being part of what
 we were taught about the techniques.  It was eki's
 mention of weakening that made me think of it.
 Now it seems obvious.  Did I just miss that part?

There are a couple of points that seem to suggest that
the shithilii (weak, or whatever) applies mainly to
the effect of the suutra(s) on finest(I guess that's 
the adjective in English; below supernormal) senses. Here's one 
translation of the relevant suutras:

http://hrih.net/patanjali/library/3.htm

35. Experience (of pleasure or pain) arises from a conception which 
does not distinguish between the two extremely different entities, 
viz. Buddhisattva and Purusha. Such experience exists for another 
(i.e. Purusha). That is why through Samyama on Purusha (who oversees 
all experiences and also their complete cessation), a knowledge 
regarding Purusha is acquired.

36. Thence (from the knowledge of Purusha) arise Pratibha 
(prescience), Sravana (supernormal power of hearing), Vedana 
(supernormal power of touch), Adarsa (supernormal power of sight), 
Asvada (supernormal poker of taste) and Varta (supernormal power of 
smell).

37. They (these powers) are impediments to Samadhi, but are (regarded 
as) acquisitions in a normal fluctuating state of the mind.

(I left the typo on that page [poker] because
it felt so funny...)

Now, Vyaasa's commentary on 37. begins like this:

te praatibhaadayaH samaahita-cittasyotpadyamaanaa...

Vyaasa seems to make clear that the demonstrative pronoun
te in 37, te samaadhaav upasargaa... refers *only* to 
praatibha , shravana, etc, because he uses the expression
aadayaH which is nominative plurar of aadi  which in turn
means 'beginning', meaning that te refers to a list(or something)
that begins with praatibha. For instance indraadayaH means
'Indra, etc.'( I guess, Indra and the other devas).
The compound samaahita-citta obviously means something
like 'citta in samaadhi', because samaahita* is the perfect
participle from the verb samaadhaa, that's related to the
noun samaadhi.
And cittasyotpadyamaanaa is sandhi for cittasya + utpadyamaanaa.
The verb ut-pat from which utpadyamaanaa(H) is, I believe,
the present participle, means something like raise so
samaahita-cittasyotpadyamaanaa(H) would mean something
like 'raising the mind out of samaadhi'. 

If something of that is messy I might try to explain it in
some other way...

*) like saMhitaa is related to saMdhi (sandhi).






 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread Brahman
 jim flanegin wrote:
 
 ...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
 all of these things are available to us at any time...
 
 ...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
 a life of total support from Mother Divine...

while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
about MD and Navaratri:

 http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 

--




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] The Maharishi Effect - II

2005-10-02 Thread Jason Spock











 







 



 
		Yahoo! for Good 
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'





  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



  Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  









[FairfieldLife] MMY: The full potential of my leadership-global conference 09/21/05

2005-10-02 Thread Ron F
Note: forwarded message attached.

From: Jörg Schenk of Natural Law Forum

The full potential of my leadership

Global Press Conference,  21.9.05

MAHARISHI:  Sometime back that I thought you appeal to
the government. 

You are a government and you make this law and
introduce this thing in education and this thing in
healthcare and this thing in agriculture and this 
thing in defense and you will be better off. But we
knew the whole trying was in the deaf ears.

I wasted my time of decades talking to the people that
they should please do it for their own sake and they
will be better off. Do it and do it.  

But now is the time I have realized the full potential
of my leadership. I realized the full potential of my
leadership. I don`t have to ask anyone to do this
and to do this. I am creating an atmosphere. I am
creating that quality of world consciousness now, that
nobody will be able to be out of this global
network of effectiveness.

This generation and all coming generations will be in
the warmth of that sunshine that no one  will have to
face any patches of darkness in his life.
We are establishing that almighty system of
administration that everyone even if he is destined to
suffer, he will simply plunge out of suffering not
knowing...









__ 
Yahoo! for Good 
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ 


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
---BeginMessage---




From: Jörg Schenk of Natural Law Forum

The full potential of my leadership

Global Press Conference, 21.9.05

MAHARISHI: Sometime back that I thought you appeal to
the government. 

You are a government and you make this law and
introduce this thing in education and this thing in
healthcare and this thing in agriculture and this 
thing in defense and you will be better off. But we
knew the whole trying was in the deaf ears.

I wasted my time of decades talking to the people that
they should please do it for their own sake and they
will be better off. Do it and do it. 

But now is the time I have realized the full potential
of my leadership. I realized the full potential of my
leadership. I don`t have to ask anyone to do this
and to do this. I am creating an atmosphere. I am
creating that quality of world consciousness now, that
nobody will be able to be out of this global
network of effectiveness.

This generation and all coming generations will be in
the warmth of that sunshine that no one will have to
face any patches of darkness in his life.
We are establishing that almighty system of
administration that everyone even if he is destined to
suffer, he will simply plunge out of suffering not
knowing...





Maryanne Lee-Hartman 

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 






  





---End Message---


Re: [FairfieldLife] Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread Vaj
I wonder if they're selling the drums?


On 10/2/05 1:49 AM, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A moment of silence please as it has come to our attention that Peter
 Sutphen  has passed away.
 We deeply regret his passing and lament his once bright but now faded
 light...
 
 Anyone posing as Peter Sutphen on this group, should be ignored as we
 know it is a scam and shameless, dishonoring his memory.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Cannot Judge - Maharishi or Hagelin

2005-10-02 Thread Jason Spock













 

Hari Om,
 FairfieldLife folks, Please read this Piece I found in another Forum. Too difficult to Judge sexy Sadie.

 Jason

-OriginalMessage---
From: "arunagirinatharchith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 20:23:22 - Subject:SEXUALITY of Saints
This is a piece from David Godman's interview by Maalok:
 " I should also make it clear that Sri Ramana himself readily admitted that enlightenment didn't turn people into paragons of virtue. Like most great Masters before him, he said that it was impossible to judge whether someone was enlightened by what he or she did or said. Saintliness does not necessarily go hand in hand with enlightenment, although most people like to think that it should. Sri Ramana was a rare conjunction of saintliness and enlightenment, but many other Masters and enlightened beings were not. They were not less enlightened because they didn't conform to the social and ethical mores of their times, they simply had different destinies to fulfil. 
 In Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Ramana narrates the story of Kaduveli Siddhar, an austere ascetic who attracted public ridicule by having an affair with a temple dancer. A local king offered a reward to anyone who could prove whether this man really was a saint or not. At the time the challenge was issued, Kaduveli Siddhar was subsisting on dry leaves that fell from trees. When the dancer eventually gave birth to Kaduveli Siddhar's baby, she thought that she had proved her point and went to the king to collect her reward. 
 The king, who wanted some public confirmation of their intimate relationship, arranged a dance performance. When it was under way, the dancer stretched out her foot towards Kaduveli Siddhar because one of her anklets had become loose. When he retied it for her, the audience jeered at him. Kaduveli Siddhar was unmoved. He sang a Tamil verse, part of which said, 'If it is true that I sleep day and night quite aware of the Self, may this stone burst into two and become the wide expanse'. 
 Immediately, a nearby stone idol split apart with a resounding crack, much to the astonishment of the audience.
 Sri Ramana's conclusion to this story was, 'He proved himself to be an unswerving jnani. One should not be deceived by the external appearance of a jnani.' 
 I find it fascinating that Sri Ramana, a man of impeccable saintliness, could say that behaviour such as this could not be taken to indicate that Kaduveli Siddhar was unenlightened."
 The url for the page where you can find the above is:http://www.davidgodman.org/interviews/al3.shtml
 I guess the above says everything about Ramana's position on this issue of enlightened humans being involved in sexual (or any other) act. I guess the Jnani as such has no desires (because his or her mind is dead), but his body is completely used by the power we might call 'god'. So, in case of a Jnani, action takes place without any desires. In case of humans whose minds are not dead, desires arise. If we are aware enough and watch the desires, and any thought for that matter, we might stop taking those actions which are detrimental to our own or some other person's larger interests.
 Of course, sex is not a 'bad' thing, but it becomes detrimental when we cling to it and 'want' more of it and often. Even clinging to tasty food or any other 'thing' is detrimental (probably as detrimental as clinging to sex). I guess in the most worthy, 'enlightened' state, bliss is always there and there is no dependency even in the least on any external object. I guess only when one is in the enlightened state, the most appropriate, 'right' action arises all the time.

 


		Yahoo! for Good 
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 






To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'








  
  
SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

Maharishi university of management
  
  
Maharishi mahesh yogi
  
  
Ramana maharshi
  
  

   
  







  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



  Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web.
  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  









[FairfieldLife] Re: Un-intelligent Un-design ( the U, U theory )

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Every semester in my classes (general psychology,
   human development, child development) I teach to
   community college students I go over this. I explain
   that science is a methodolgy of inquiry that requires
   all concepts of a hypothesis to be quantifiable. 
 
 And the hypothesis must be capabable of and have an experimental means
 to be refuted / rejected.

So was Special Relativity scientific until the experiments were carried 
out physically?

And are Anthropology and Archeology sciences? Philosophers of Science 
define things slightly different than scientists do since PoS's have to 
account for ALL science rather than just the discipline or 
disciplines that the scientist wants to accept as science.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 snip
   The goal is inherent in the system..
  
  'System' means 'intelligence'.
 
 Aieee, no.  It can be used that way, but it can
 also be used without any implication of intelligence.

All systems have intelligence related to them in some way. 
  However,
is the intelligence imposing order during its analysis of 
the system, or did an intelligence impose order in the 
 *design* 
  of 
the system?
   
   Gee, I wouldn't say order being imposed on a system
   during analysis by an intelligence means the system
   *itself* has intelligence.  What about systems that
   have never been analyzed by an intelligence?  What
   intelligence do they have related to them (if you
   exclude a designing intelligence)?
   
   System just means stuff that interacts in a more
   or less regular way.
  
  But of all the itneractions and materials and stuff that exist, 
YOU 
  pick and chose what defines the system.
 
 Sure, but that still doesn't mean the system itself
 has intelligence.
 

Didn't say that. Said that there is intelligence associated with any 
and all systems. Of all the possible bits and pieces of matter and 
energy in the universe in all thepossible subsets of them, we chose 
to talk about things like all living things on Earth. Why?


  Consider the water molecules of all the predators on earth and 
  within 3 feet in all directions from all of them,including those 
  within its prey and within neutral animals an plants. Would you 
  call those a system?
 
 I guess you could, but I'm not sure of the relevance to
 what I was saying.  Could you elaborate?

That's thepoint. It's an arbitrary collection. All collections of 
particles are arbitrary in one sense. In another, we chose which ones 
to include or exclude based on intellect.

 
 Or consider the system I suggested to Offworld, a
 complicated solar system in a distant galaxy that
 has never been observed by a sentient being.  How
 can there even be the intelligence related to the
 system via analysis?

What is a solar system?




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
  [...]
 Gee, I wouldn't say order being imposed on a system
 during analysis by an intelligence means the system
 *itself* has intelligence.  What about systems that
 have never been analyzed by an intelligence? .

Can you name one?
   
   Hypothetical, obviously.  Let's say a very
   complicated solar system in a distant galaxy
   that no sentient being has ever observed.
  
  You just defined the system ahead of time: solar system.
 
 I don't think that's relevant to my point,
 which was whether the system has inherent
 intelligence.

The system was devised by intelligence. You have a definition 
of solar system that you use. Why do you include or exclude 
membership in a system?

 
  What makes something part of OUR solar sytstem, rather than part
  of another?




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
  The truth is every bit as much out there as it is in here.
 
 Is it? How do you know? (channelling Sparaig)
 
 :-)

I watch public access, of course.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
  This goes to the Shrodinger cat thought experiment. ie. Is the cat 
  in the box dead or alive if no-one else sees it. It is therefore in 
  a neither dead nor alive state
  This thought experiment is nonsense because it assumes only hhigher 
  order animals (people) are observers, but all animals (and beyond ) 
  are observers, including the flees in the cats skin, and even the 
  parasites in its blood, it's very own cells as single celled 
  organisms, and its very own DNA. 
  Someone is always watching.everywhere. 
  Even a planet is observing (experiencing) as is the sun.
  The fallacy of Shrodinger's cat is as yet not known to the 
  scientific understanding on Earth
 
 Well, boy, you're right in line for a Nobel Prize,
 then, as soon as you make it known.

It's one proposed solution tothe paradox.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Un-intelligent Un-design ( the U, U theory )

2005-10-02 Thread Peter


--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Every semester in my classes (general
 psychology,
human development, child development) I teach
 to
community college students I go over this. I
 explain
that science is a methodolgy of inquiry that
 requires
all concepts of a hypothesis to be
 quantifiable. 
  
  And the hypothesis must be capabable of and have
 an experimental means
  to be refuted / rejected.
 
 So was Special Relativity scientific until the
 experiments were carried 
 out physically?
 
 And are Anthropology and Archeology sciences?
 Philosophers of Science 
 define things slightly different than scientists do
 since PoS's have to 
 account for ALL science rather than just the
 discipline or 
 disciplines that the scientist wants to accept as
 science.

Scientists speculate, then they attempt to develop a
hypothesis to affirm the speculation. ID proponents
simply want to leave the discussion on the level of
belief. That's the problem. It's not science, it's
speculation only. I can't figure out why you guys
appear to struggle with such a simple concept. Either
you just don't get what a science is, or you like to
argue! My main point is that if a scientific theory,
not a scientist speculating in his/her quite moments,
but a formal theory, contains a concept/construct that
is completely unquantifiable, it's not science.




 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
 ~-- 
 Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
 Yahoo! your home page

http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM

~-
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 




__ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] Two peace palaces for Fairfield?

2005-10-02 Thread Peter
These peace palaces will be noted for their fullness
of emptiness!

--- bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 the only reason I can think of they would need two
 peace palaces 
 would be if one was intended for women, other for
 men...
 
 
 
 On 30 September 2005 Maharishi University of
 Management Review 
 reported: Campus residents at Maharishi University
 of Management in 
 Fairfield, Iowa will soon see the start of
 construction of two 
 Maharishi Peace Palaces. 'The Maharishi Peace
 Palaces will be a 
 proper home for the pure knowledge so generously
 given to us for the 
 past 50 years by Maharishi,' said Alexandria
 DeVasier, director of 
 one of the Maharishi Peace Palaces for Fairfield. It
 is a joy for 
 Global Good News service to feature this news, which
 indicates the 
 success of the life-supporting programmes Maharishi
 has designed to 
 bring fulfilment to the field of world-peace. 
 
 Each Maharishi Peace Palace will be 12,000 square
 feet, built 
 according to principles of Maharishi Vedic
 Architecture and situated 
 on three acres of land, with celebration grounds in
 front of the 
 building. They will have a  white marble exterior.
 The construction 
 will be done in phases over the next six months.  
 
 Ms DeVasier said the Peace Palaces 'will offer over
 50 programmes, 
 courses, services, and products in the new 
 buildings'. These will 
 include MAPI products, books, a day spa, residence
 course rooms, and 
 more. 'These Maharishi Peace Palaces are a profound
 gift from 
 Maharishi that will preserve the legacy of the
 knowledge of 
 enlightenment and perfect health for  all
 generations to come,' Ms 
 DeVasier said. 'Establishing Maharishi Peace Palaces
 in Fairfield 
 and Maharishi Vedic City will bring a wave of
 coherence to change 
 the negative trends throughout the United States.'  
 
 Copyright 2005, Maharishi University of Management 
 
 
 
 http://www.globalgoodnews.com/
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
 ~-- 
 Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
 Yahoo! your home page

http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM

~-
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 




__ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread off_world_beings
He had Drums?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wonder if they're selling the drums?
 
 
 On 10/2/05 1:49 AM, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  A moment of silence please as it has come to our attention that 
Peter
  Sutphen  has passed away.
  We deeply regret his passing and lament his once bright but now 
faded
  light...
  
  Anyone posing as Peter Sutphen on this group, should be ignored as 
we
  know it is a scam and shameless, dishonoring his memory.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread Peter
Yes, he does. He is currently adding to his hand drum
collection by seeking a doumbek on ebay. He might get
one with jingles inside! Taka-dum-taka-taka-dum-dum

--- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 He had Drums?
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I wonder if they're selling the drums?
  
  
  On 10/2/05 1:49 AM, off_world_beings
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
   A moment of silence please as it has come to our
 attention that 
 Peter
   Sutphen  has passed away.
   We deeply regret his passing and lament his once
 bright but now 
 faded
   light...
   
   Anyone posing as Peter Sutphen on this group,
 should be ignored as 
 we
   know it is a scam and shameless, dishonoring his
 memory.
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
 ~-- 
 Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
 Yahoo! your home page

http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM

~-
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!' 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 




__ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
[Offworld wrote:] 
   [...]
  Gee, I wouldn't say order being imposed on a system
  during analysis by an intelligence means the system
  *itself* has intelligence.  What about systems that
  have never been analyzed by an intelligence? .
 
 Can you name one?

Hypothetical, obviously.  Let's say a very
complicated solar system in a distant galaxy
that no sentient being has ever observed.
   
   You just defined the system ahead of time: solar system.
  
  I don't think that's relevant to my point,
  which was whether the system has inherent
  intelligence.
 
 The system was devised by intelligence. You have a definition 
 of solar system that you use. Why do you include or exclude 
 membership in a system?

Yes, I see what you're saying, and I agree, but I
*still* don't think it's relevant to the question
of whether a system has *inherent* intelligence.

Years ago I had a knock-down, drag-out argument on
a quasi-scientific forum about whether it could be
said that an encyclopedia, say, contained information.
I maintained that it did not *inherently* contain
information; the distribution of particles of ink
on paper became information only when a sentient
being was looking at it.  Once the encyclopedia
was closed, what was inside was no longer information.

I forget now what the context was, but it made a
difference to whatever we had been discussing.  At
any rate, I think this is related to what you're
saying, i.e., there is no such thing as a system
without an intelligence to identify it as such by
isolating it from everything else.

Hmm, I suspect all this points in the direction of
Self-reference, but I'm not sure how to articulate it.
On the other hand, maybe it's only a matter of
definition of terms.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  I am aware that she probably thought it was funny, 
  in a putdown sorta way.  I am also aware of the
  hundreds of posts she has written over the years on 
  the value of consistency and her need to hear the
  *same* answer every time.  That's why she likes
  Maharishi.  She can't deal with teachers (to say
  nothing of lowlives like ourselves) who deal in
  contradictions and have different answers to life's
  questions, depending on the state of attention or
  POV that is in operation at the time.  I was poking 
  fun at that.  It's probably one of those you have 
  to have been there kinda things...
 
 Barry can say this only because you guys *haven't*
 been there.  If you had, you would have seen hundreds
 of posts from me over the years that positively
 *revel* in contradictions, including those in MMY's
 teaching.  I've said many times I wished MMY would
 make more of the contradictions than he does.
 
 Barry and I have had many exchanges on this very
 topic, so it isn't as though he'd missed those
 posts.
 
 There is, of course, also a value to consistency,
 in its place.  The irony here is that Barry is
 having trouble dealing with the apparent contradiction
 of someone valuing consistency, on the one hand, and
 valuing paradox, on the other.

When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's called juggling.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Nosers of Reality

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  And what are those Nosers of Reality all about?
  
  I think Socrates nailed it when he said nose thyself.
  
  But as I always say, what my girl friend doesn't nose won't hurt 
  her. 
  
  Reveal thy wisdom unto me. I wants to nose.
 
 A nosological primer:
 
   ...You might have said at least a hundred things
   By varying the tone. . .like this, suppose,. . .
   Aggressive:  'Sir, if I had such a nose
   I'd amputate it!'  Friendly:  'When you sup
   It must annoy you, dipping in your cup;
   You need a drinking-bowl of special shape!'
   Descriptive:  ''Tis a rock!. . .a peak!. . .a cape!
   --A cape, forsooth!  'Tis a peninsular!'
   Curious:  'How serves that oblong capsular?

[...]


Possibly the finest example of how to destroy your opponent by 
showing how lame his insults are.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   snip
Hmmm... how big a difference would it make if
one translated samaadhau to 'in samaadhi' instead
of 'to samaadhi'? I seem to recall that Vyaasa or 
Bhoja comments that siddhis tend to make samaadhi weaker, but 
 they
don't obstruct it alltogether (provided I've understood
the Sanskrit approximately correctly).
   
   Don't know nuttin' about the Sanskrit, but recall
   that according to MMY, the function of practicing
   the TM-Sidhis is to challenge samadhi, as with
   the metaphor of the sun fading the yellow dye in the
   context of plain-vanilla TM.  Activity following
   meditation challenges the samadhi that remains
   after meditation, which ultimately results in
   strengthening it and making it permanent.
   
   The intense color of the dye when the cloth comes
   out of the dye vat is weakened by the sun, but
   what remains is what has become permanent.  The
   permanent part is added to incrementally with each
   dip into the vat until it's all permanent.  But
   that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't weakened
   by the sun each time.
   
   Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but
   the possible parallel struck me as interesting.
  
  The sidhis challenge/weaken samadhi on the most fundamental level 
  possible.
 
 You know, I never connected the yellow dye analogy
 with the TM-Sidhis' challenge to samadhi before;
 I sure don't recall the parallel being part of what
 we were taught about the techniques.  It was eki's
 mention of weakening that made me think of it.
 Now it seems obvious.  Did I just miss that part?

I recall it being presented as a more subtle set of activities that 
stabilize pure consciousness at a more fundamental level.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Un-intelligent Un-design ( the U, U theory )

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 
 --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Every semester in my classes (general
  psychology,
 human development, child development) I teach
  to
 community college students I go over this. I
  explain
 that science is a methodolgy of inquiry that
  requires
 all concepts of a hypothesis to be
  quantifiable. 
   
   And the hypothesis must be capabable of and have
  an experimental means
   to be refuted / rejected.
  
  So was Special Relativity scientific until the
  experiments were carried 
  out physically?
  
  And are Anthropology and Archeology sciences?
  Philosophers of Science 
  define things slightly different than scientists do
  since PoS's have to 
  account for ALL science rather than just the
  discipline or 
  disciplines that the scientist wants to accept as
  science.
 
 Scientists speculate, then they attempt to develop a
 hypothesis to affirm the speculation. ID proponents
 simply want to leave the discussion on the level of
 belief. That's the problem. It's not science, it's
 speculation only. I can't figure out why you guys
 appear to struggle with such a simple concept. Either
 you just don't get what a science is, or you like to
 argue! My main point is that if a scientific theory,
 not a scientist speculating in his/her quite moments,
 but a formal theory, contains a concept/construct that
 is completely unquantifiable, it's not science.
 

That concept might not be, but such concepts are often embedded in 
well-established scientific theories. In fact, I don't think its 
possible to have a scientific theory that is comprised entirely of 
quatifiables. It's like requiring mathematics being able to prove ALL 
parts. Gotta have them axioms.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 [Offworld wrote:] 
[...]
   Gee, I wouldn't say order being imposed on a system
   during analysis by an intelligence means the system
   *itself* has intelligence.  What about systems that
   have never been analyzed by an intelligence? .
  
  Can you name one?
 
 Hypothetical, obviously.  Let's say a very
 complicated solar system in a distant galaxy
 that no sentient being has ever observed.

You just defined the system ahead of time: solar system.
   
   I don't think that's relevant to my point,
   which was whether the system has inherent
   intelligence.
  
  The system was devised by intelligence. You have a definition 
  of solar system that you use. Why do you include or exclude 
  membership in a system?
 
 Yes, I see what you're saying, and I agree, but I
 *still* don't think it's relevant to the question
 of whether a system has *inherent* intelligence.

Defining a system means that it has intelligence in the sense that 
the system is pre ordered.

 
 Years ago I had a knock-down, drag-out argument on
 a quasi-scientific forum about whether it could be
 said that an encyclopedia, say, contained information.
 I maintained that it did not *inherently* contain
 information; the distribution of particles of ink
 on paper became information only when a sentient
 being was looking at it.  Once the encyclopedia
 was closed, what was inside was no longer information.
 
 I forget now what the context was, but it made a
 difference to whatever we had been discussing.  At
 any rate, I think this is related to what you're
 saying, i.e., there is no such thing as a system
 without an intelligence to identify it as such by
 isolating it from everything else.
 
 Hmm, I suspect all this points in the direction of
 Self-reference, but I'm not sure how to articulate it.
 On the other hand, maybe it's only a matter of
 definition of terms.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip
   I am aware that she probably thought it was funny, 
   in a putdown sorta way.  I am also aware of the
   hundreds of posts she has written over the years on 
   the value of consistency and her need to hear the
   *same* answer every time.  That's why she likes
   Maharishi.  She can't deal with teachers (to say
   nothing of lowlives like ourselves) who deal in
   contradictions and have different answers to life's
   questions, depending on the state of attention or
   POV that is in operation at the time.  I was poking 
   fun at that.  It's probably one of those you have 
   to have been there kinda things...
  
  Barry can say this only because you guys *haven't*
  been there.  If you had, you would have seen hundreds
  of posts from me over the years that positively
  *revel* in contradictions, including those in MMY's
  teaching.  I've said many times I wished MMY would
  make more of the contradictions than he does.
  
  Barry and I have had many exchanges on this very
  topic, so it isn't as though he'd missed those
  posts.
  
  There is, of course, also a value to consistency,
  in its place.  The irony here is that Barry is
  having trouble dealing with the apparent contradiction
  of someone valuing consistency, on the one hand, and
  valuing paradox, on the other.
 
 When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's called juggling.

Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
in its place, as I said above.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread TurquoiseB
  When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's called juggling.
 
 Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
 in its place, as I said above.

Not that it matters, but that isn't quite true.  How many hands
are used depends on the number of objects you are juggling.
It's an odd/even thang.  2 balls, one hand, or it's no challenge.
3 balls, two hands.  4 balls, two hands, but each hand is really
only juggling two balls; there is no switchover.  5 balls, two 
hands with switchover again.  6 balls, two hands, but each is
now juggling three balls with no switchover.

When it comes to juggling concepts, you are free to use as
many minds as you have.  :-)






 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   snip
I am aware that she probably thought it was funny, 
in a putdown sorta way.  I am also aware of the
hundreds of posts she has written over the years on 
the value of consistency and her need to hear the
*same* answer every time.  That's why she likes
Maharishi.  She can't deal with teachers (to say
nothing of lowlives like ourselves) who deal in
contradictions and have different answers to life's
questions, depending on the state of attention or
POV that is in operation at the time.  I was poking 
fun at that.  It's probably one of those you have 
to have been there kinda things...
   
   Barry can say this only because you guys *haven't*
   been there.  If you had, you would have seen hundreds
   of posts from me over the years that positively
   *revel* in contradictions, including those in MMY's
   teaching.  I've said many times I wished MMY would
   make more of the contradictions than he does.
   
   Barry and I have had many exchanges on this very
   topic, so it isn't as though he'd missed those
   posts.
   
   There is, of course, also a value to consistency,
   in its place.  The irony here is that Barry is
   having trouble dealing with the apparent contradiction
   of someone valuing consistency, on the one hand, and
   valuing paradox, on the other.
  
  When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's 
  called juggling.
 
 Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
 in its place, as I said above.

To elaborate: What I don't accept is the attempt
to characterize inconsistency as a function of 
advanced spiritual development when it's really an
artifact of sloppy, shallow thinking, or having
forgotten what one said the previous day, or taking
mutually exclusive positions merely for the sake of
winning two unrelated arguments or putting down two
different TMers (or the same TMer on different days),
or because one has failed to recognize the
implications of a particular position, or making a
category error, and so on.

That's just gross intellectual dishonesty, an excuse
for avoiding accountability for the coherence of
one's thinking.

In fact, to truly appreciate paradox requires the
most rigorous kind of thinking.  Incoherence
just generates more incoherence.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's
   called juggling.
  
  Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
  in its place, as I said above.
 
 Not that it matters, but that isn't quite true.  How many hands
 are used depends on the number of objects you are juggling.

Right.  But there's no juggling involved here, you
see.  Consistency is appropriate in its place, paradox/
contradiction is appropriate in *its* place.

Trying to hold two balls in one hand and then
dropping them both doesn't even constitute juggling.




 It's an odd/even thang.  2 balls, one hand, or it's no challenge.
 3 balls, two hands.  4 balls, two hands, but each hand is really
 only juggling two balls; there is no switchover.  5 balls, two 
 hands with switchover again.  6 balls, two hands, but each is
 now juggling three balls with no switchover.
 
 When it comes to juggling concepts, you are free to use as
 many minds as you have.  :-)





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread off_world_beings
Wow, he was such a great guy. Loved by one and all, and he had a 
great sense of humor. I know we will all miss him.

OffWorld

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Yes, he does. He is currently adding to his hand drum
 collection by seeking a doumbek on ebay. He might get
 one with jingles inside! Taka-dum-taka-taka-dum-dum
 
 --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  He had Drums?
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I wonder if they're selling the drums?
   
   
   On 10/2/05 1:49 AM, off_world_beings
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   
A moment of silence please as it has come to our
  attention that 
  Peter
Sutphen  has passed away.
We deeply regret his passing and lament his once
  bright but now 
  faded
light...

Anyone posing as Peter Sutphen on this group,
  should be ignored as 
  we
know it is a scam and shameless, dishonoring his
  memory.
  
  
  
  
   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
  ~-- 
  Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
  Yahoo! your home page
 
 http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
 
 ---
-~-
  
  
  To subscribe, send a message to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
  and click 'Join This Group!' 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   
  
  
  
 
 
 
   
 __ 
 Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
 http://mail.yahoo.com




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Brahman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  jim flanegin wrote:
  
  ...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
  all of these things are available to us at any time...
  
  ...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
  a life of total support from Mother Divine...
 
 while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
 it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
 to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
 about MD and Navaratri:
 
  http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 
 
 --

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about the Goddesses. How is 
this different though from directly asking for blessings for others 
and myself at the appropriate time? Would those not also be 
considered yagyas? It seems to work in the same way.

I am not negating these forms of worship, just adding that whether 
we want to contact Mother Divine directly or do it through 
intermediaries, the results are similar.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Dear friends from around the world,
  
  Mother Divine 9 days (Oct-4-12)
  for wealth, prosperity, health, longevity, knowledge and 
intelligence.
  By awakening human awareness , 9 days will help all aspects of 
life...
  the five senses, mind, intellect and ego...Those 9 days Yagnas 
will
  support prosperity  fulfillment, help increase wealth, support
  spiritual progress, gain knowledge, clear intellect, improvement 
of
  memory, peace of mind, good for education, improve influence in
  society, increase harmony in married life, help remove big 
problems,
  help find suitable job, support success in business, fulfillment 
of
  desires, removal of fears, help remove illness, improvement of 
health,
  help prevent danger, help peaceful sleep, overall progress, 
improve
  relationship, remove obstacles, help finding suitable spouse, 
free
  from obstacles, support in court case, support in better life...
 
 Wow.  It sounds just like TM, without the sitting
 with your eyes closed and all.

Yep. I'd rather see the 'hidden' list of things that the 9 days of 
MD *won't* do.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Brahman 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   jim flanegin wrote:
   
   ...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
   all of these things are available to us at any time...
   
   ...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
   a life of total support from Mother Divine...
  
  while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
  it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
  to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
  about MD and Navaratri:
  
   http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 
  
  --
 
 Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about the Goddesses. How is 
 this different though from directly asking for blessings for others 
 and myself at the appropriate time? Would those not also be 
 considered yagyas? It seems to work in the same way.
 
 I am not negating these forms of worship, just adding that whether 
 we want to contact Mother Divine directly or do it through 
 intermediaries, the results are similar.

Just out of curiosity, have you done both and
compared the effects?





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Brahman 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
jim flanegin wrote:

...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
all of these things are available to us at any time...

...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
a life of total support from Mother Divine...
   
   while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
   it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
   to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
   about MD and Navaratri:
   
http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 
   
   --
  
  Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about the Goddesses. How 
is 
  this different though from directly asking for blessings for 
others 
  and myself at the appropriate time? Would those not also be 
  considered yagyas? It seems to work in the same way.
  
  I am not negating these forms of worship, just adding that 
whether 
  we want to contact Mother Divine directly or do it through 
  intermediaries, the results are similar.
 
 Just out of curiosity, have you done both and
 compared the effects?

I consistently exceed every expectation I have, have for my whole 
life, so what would be the point of a yagya? For what- I don't have 
any need strong enough for such a performance. Direct devotion is 
better, and more powerful, in my opinion.

Perhaps if my life gets really, really, really, really intolerable 
in the future I will have need of a yagya, but that is purely a 
hypothetical instance. There appears to be a game we all play with 
ourselves, comparing where we are or what we have, and where we want 
to be. I have always been able to bridge such a gap through 
dilligence, focus, devotion, and surrender.

Lately I have noticed that the equation has changed somewhat. The 
gap described above is very brief on the one hand, and on the other, 
the results realized always exceed my expectations.

So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
do 'out there', such as a yagya, in order to achieve further 
happiness, satisfaction, good health, economic security, social 
integration, familial love, or any other aspect of my life which I 
deem important.

For others it may be different. I have always enjoyed self-reliance. 
I feel that for this life, and the next, it is better to be self-
reliant.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Brahman 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 jim flanegin wrote:
 
 ...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
 all of these things are available to us at any time...
 
 ...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
 a life of total support from Mother Divine...

while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
about MD and Navaratri:

 http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 

--
   
   Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about the Goddesses. How 
 is 
   this different though from directly asking for blessings for 
 others 
   and myself at the appropriate time? Would those not also be 
   considered yagyas? It seems to work in the same way.
   
   I am not negating these forms of worship, just adding that 
 whether 
   we want to contact Mother Divine directly or do it through 
   intermediaries, the results are similar.
  
  Just out of curiosity, have you done both and
  compared the effects?
 
 I consistently exceed every expectation I have, have for my whole 
 life, so what would be the point of a yagya? For what- I don't have 
 any need strong enough for such a performance. Direct devotion is 
 better, and more powerful, in my opinion.
 
 Perhaps if my life gets really, really, really, really intolerable 
 in the future I will have need of a yagya, but that is purely a 
 hypothetical instance. There appears to be a game we all play with 
 ourselves, comparing where we are or what we have, and where we want 
 to be. I have always been able to bridge such a gap through 
 dilligence, focus, devotion, and surrender.
 
 Lately I have noticed that the equation has changed somewhat. The 
 gap described above is very brief on the one hand, and on the other, 
 the results realized always exceed my expectations.
 
 So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
 do 'out there', such as a yagya, in order to achieve further 
 happiness, satisfaction, good health, economic security, social 
 integration, familial love, or any other aspect of my life which I 
 deem important.
 
 For others it may be different. I have always enjoyed self-reliance. 
 I feel that for this life, and the next, it is better to be self-
 reliant.

Thats all fine. But you didn't answer the question. Not that you are
obligated to. You stated I am not negating these forms of worship,
just adding that whether we want to contact Mother Divine directly or
do it through intermediaries, the results are similar. How can you
assess if the results are similar if you have not done the same yagyas
that Tom is doing. If on the other hand, you simple meant, the
descriptions of yagyas sound similar to what I experience then fine.
But thats a difference from saying the results ARE similar.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 MONTHLY MEMBERS are all included in this Yagna

I am not clear on this statement Tom. Does this group have group
yagyas? Or do you have subscribers who contibute to yours? 

I had understood from past posts that you felt group yagyas diluted
the effect. Has this view / experience changed?







 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
 So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
 do 'out there', such as a yagya, in order to achieve further 
 happiness, satisfaction, good health, economic security, social 
 integration, familial love, or any other aspect of my life which I 
 deem important.

Are you positive you're aware of all the aspects
of your life that are important?  (Either to you
personally, or in the cosmic scheme of things?)

 For others it may be different. I have always enjoyed self-reliance. 
 I feel that for this life, and the next, it is better to be self-
 reliant.

Is self-reliance entirely consistent with devotion?

I'm reminded of the joke about the guy who calls on
God to rescue him from drowning and then waves off
the helicopter that suddenly appears and offers to
haul him up.

Obviously you don't perceive yourself to be in a
desperate situation from which you need to be saved,
but I wonder whether the same principle might apply.
I could conceive of a scenario in which Tom was 
equivalent to the helicopter, sent by Mother Divine
to suggest the possibility of your deriving some
benefit from yagyas that She is aware of but you
aren't.

(I'm really not promoting yagyas, just probing
your reasoning in rejecting them.  No need to
respond if you don't want to.)





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
  do 'out there', such as a yagya, in order to achieve further 
  happiness, satisfaction, good health, economic security, social 
  integration, familial love, or any other aspect of my life which 
I 
  deem important.
 
 Are you positive you're aware of all the aspects
 of your life that are important?  (Either to you
 personally, or in the cosmic scheme of things?)
 
  For others it may be different. I have always enjoyed self-
reliance. 
  I feel that for this life, and the next, it is better to be self-
  reliant.
 
 Is self-reliance entirely consistent with devotion?
 
 I'm reminded of the joke about the guy who calls on
 God to rescue him from drowning and then waves off
 the helicopter that suddenly appears and offers to
 haul him up.
 
 Obviously you don't perceive yourself to be in a
 desperate situation from which you need to be saved,
 but I wonder whether the same principle might apply.
 I could conceive of a scenario in which Tom was 
 equivalent to the helicopter, sent by Mother Divine
 to suggest the possibility of your deriving some
 benefit from yagyas that She is aware of but you
 aren't.
 
 (I'm really not promoting yagyas, just probing
 your reasoning in rejecting them.  No need to
 respond if you don't want to.)

Yes, I really like the joke about the guy with the 
helicopter...Maybe I should have said Self reliance, but just didn't 
want to revisit the whole small s vs. big S thing. 

I agree that Tom's post prompted my reply, though I wouldn't 
characterise my not feeling a need to do a yagya as a rejection of 
them. To use a possibly convoluted analogy, if I am already wearing 
a hat and someone offers me a cap, I can decline on the basis of my 
needs already being met, without feeling that I am rejecting the 
offer of the cap. it just isn't necessary.

Not to suggest either that I haven't faced a great many trials in my 
life. We all have. And that is why yagyas are appropriate for some. 




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Brahman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  jim flanegin wrote:
  
  ...given Mother Divine as the Universal Supreme Being,
  all of these things are available to us at any time...
  
  ...I don't participate in such ceremonies yet live
  a life of total support from Mother Divine...
 
 while this is, no doubt, your true experience, still 
 it is good to participate, also.  you may just need 
 to learn more about it ... here is a neat website 
 about MD and Navaratri:
 
  http://www.divyajivan.org/navaratri 
 
 --

Thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading about the Goddesses. 
How 
  is 
this different though from directly asking for blessings for 
  others 
and myself at the appropriate time? Would those not also be 
considered yagyas? It seems to work in the same way.

I am not negating these forms of worship, just adding that 
  whether 
we want to contact Mother Divine directly or do it through 
intermediaries, the results are similar.
   
   Just out of curiosity, have you done both and
   compared the effects?
  
  I consistently exceed every expectation I have, have for my 
whole 
  life, so what would be the point of a yagya? For what- I don't 
have 
  any need strong enough for such a performance. Direct devotion 
is 
  better, and more powerful, in my opinion.
  
  Perhaps if my life gets really, really, really, really 
intolerable 
  in the future I will have need of a yagya, but that is purely a 
  hypothetical instance. There appears to be a game we all play 
with 
  ourselves, comparing where we are or what we have, and where we 
want 
  to be. I have always been able to bridge such a gap through 
  dilligence, focus, devotion, and surrender.
  
  Lately I have noticed that the equation has changed somewhat. 
The 
  gap described above is very brief on the one hand, and on the 
other, 
  the results realized always exceed my expectations.
  
  So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
  do 'out there', such as a yagya, in order to achieve further 
  happiness, satisfaction, good health, economic security, social 
  integration, familial love, or any other aspect of my life which 
I 
  deem important.
  
  For others it may be different. I have always enjoyed self-
reliance. 
  I feel that for this life, and the next, it is better to be self-
  reliant.
 
 Thats all fine. But you didn't answer the question. Not that you 
are
 obligated to. You stated I am not negating these forms of worship,
 just adding that whether we want to contact Mother Divine directly 
or
 do it through intermediaries, the results are similar. How can you
 assess if the results are similar if you have not done the same 
yagyas
 that Tom is doing. If on the other hand, you simple meant, the
 descriptions of yagyas sound similar to what I experience then 
fine.
 But thats a difference from saying the results ARE similar.

Yes, right, absolutely. I have no idea at all what the results of 
the yagyas that Tom is having done feel like, for me, or anyone 
else. Thanks for the clarification.

And I hope for everyone's sake that the yagyas work as described. 
That would be great!





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread anonymousff
I wonder if that yagya can cure someone of being a racist scumbag.






 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  snip
   The truth is every bit as much out there as it is in here.
  
  Is it? How do you know? (channelling Sparaig)
  
  :-)
 
 I watch public access, of course.

I watch public access - sounds as if the truth is in I to me :-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Wow, he was such a great guy. Loved by one and all, and he had a 
 great sense of humor. I know we will all miss him.

Why are you bringing all this up now? Peter died years ago :-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
 do 'out there', such as a yagya, snip

A most interesting phrase, Jim, and one that reminds me of a Durga 
Puja I attended here in Fairfield a few months back -- the first 
such since leaving the TMO, IIRC, several decades ago. 
For some time during the ceremony, I wondered why I was there, as 
absolutely nothing was going on out there (though the ritual was 
interesting enough). Then I thought to look in here, inside the 
physical body, and was awestruck at the complexity of the tiny 
impulses being awakened within the form with every name chanted. It 
culminated with my physical form becoming that of Durga. Then for a 
number of days I got as sick as I have ever been since awakening. 
*LOL* All in all, a truly enjoyable and enlivening and purifying 
experience! :-)





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  
  So I have concluded from this that there is nothing for me to 
  do 'out there', such as a yagya, snip
 
 A most interesting phrase, Jim, and one that reminds me of a Durga 
 Puja I attended here in Fairfield a few months back -- the first 
 such since leaving the TMO, IIRC, several decades ago. 
 For some time during the ceremony, I wondered why I was there, as 
 absolutely nothing was going on out there (though the ritual was 
 interesting enough). Then I thought to look in here, inside the 
 physical body, and was awestruck at the complexity of the tiny 
 impulses being awakened within the form with every name chanted. 
It 
 culminated with my physical form becoming that of Durga. Then for 
a 
 number of days I got as sick as I have ever been since awakening. 
 *LOL* All in all, a truly enjoyable and enlivening and purifying 
 experience! :-)

PS I too had absolutely no desires outstanding out there -- except 
a slight curiosity as to the Pua :-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: 9 Days of Mother Diving Yagna by Choice

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 PS I too had absolutely no desires outstanding out there -- 
except 
 a slight curiosity as to the Pua :-)

PPS Well, I still don't know about the Pua -- but I meant the Puja.



:-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's 
called juggling.
  
  Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
  in its place, as I said above.
 
 Not that it matters, but that isn't quite true.  How many hands
 are used depends on the number of objects you are juggling.
 It's an odd/even thang.  2 balls, one hand, or it's no challenge.
 3 balls, two hands.  4 balls, two hands, but each hand is really
 only juggling two balls; there is no switchover.  

YOu can have a switchover with 4 or maybe even 6 balls. You have to 
throw them at different heights, but its doable (at least with 4).

5 balls, two 
 hands with switchover again.  6 balls, two hands, but each is
 now juggling three balls with no switchover.
 
 When it comes to juggling concepts, you are free to use as
 many minds as you have.  :-)

There's quite a few juggling books out there. ONeis called something 
like 161 3-ball tricks.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
When you try to hold them in the same hand, it's
called juggling.
   
   Yeah, but they're in different hands, i.e., each
   in its place, as I said above.
  
  Not that it matters, but that isn't quite true.  How many hands
  are used depends on the number of objects you are juggling.
 
 Right.  But there's no juggling involved here, you
 see.  Consistency is appropriate in its place, paradox/
 contradiction is appropriate in *its* place.
 
 Trying to hold two balls in one hand and then
 dropping them both doesn't even constitute juggling.

That's the most important part of juggling, actually: The Drop.

All of us master the drop before we master any other trick.


 
 
 
 
  It's an odd/even thang.  2 balls, one hand, or it's no challenge.
  3 balls, two hands.  4 balls, two hands, but each hand is really
  only juggling two balls; there is no switchover.  5 balls, two 
  hands with switchover again.  6 balls, two hands, but each is
  now juggling three balls with no switchover.
  
  When it comes to juggling concepts, you are free to use as
  many minds as you have.  :-)





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's the most important part of juggling, actually: The Drop.
 
 All of us master the drop before we master any other trick.

HA! To see perfection in imperfection and imperfection in perfection --
 this is Wisdom indeed, O Lawsonji


:-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/2/05 7:55 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes, he does. He is currently adding to his hand drum
 collection by seeking a doumbek on ebay. He might get
 one with jingles inside! Taka-dum-taka-taka-dum-dum

I got a ghatam this summer:
http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/ghatam.html





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Peter Sutphen has passed away.

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 on 10/2/05 7:55 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Yes, he does. He is currently adding to his hand drum
  collection by seeking a doumbek on ebay. He might get
  one with jingles inside! Taka-dum-taka-taka-dum-dum
 
 I got a ghatam this summer:
 http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/ghatam.html

Oooh, I want one of those!

Nice drum, too.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita

2005-10-02 Thread akasha_108
The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita


BELOW THE INTRODUCTION
FROM A PAPER BY
AZIZ KRISTOF



INTRODUCTION


Although not always thought so as such, Advaita actually falls
under the auspices of the three main branches of VEDANTA:

   1. Dvaita Vedanta - the dualistic approach

   2. Advaita Vedanta - the non-dualistic approach

   3. Kevala Advaita Vedanta - the pure non-dualistic school. 

The main exponent of Vedanta was the great sage Adi Sankara
who was an adept of the Kevala Advaita Vedanta path. In western
circles it is not unusual to blend the last two together as well as
interposing the words Advaita and Vedanta as having the same meaning,
becoming in a sense euphemisms of themselves (satsang is often
included as well). Generally speaking it works OK, but when fine
tuning the specifics then a more indepth process is usually required.
(source).

Jerry Katz, in a further clarification, in his Nonduality FAQ
website, presents the following as well:

Advaita means nonduality. Vedanta means end of the Veda. The
Vedas, the most ancient texts of Indian literature, are books on
mythology and sacrifice. Their origins are superhuman, their authority
divine, the Orthodox believe. The end of the Veda marked the coming of
the Upanishads, which are books on the nondual nature of reality, but
which offer different levels of nondual understanding, and have even
given rise dualism, which says that God and the human body are
eternally separate.

Providing the Introduction:
the Wanderling



The Dangers of Pseudo Advaita now proceeds:

We would like to express our concern regarding the recent
phenomenon of 'satsang-culture' which in our opinion has impoverished
seriously the Orignial Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals,
who have very little or no knowledge at all about the Process of
Awakening, feel qualified to give satsang and lead other souls on the
Path. Enlightenment has become very cheap these days. Nobody actually
really knows what is the meaning of this term as it virtually means
everything and nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say 'I am
Awakened' in order to give satsang.

Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has
been much manipulated. Satsang has been Americanized. In an average
satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and
unauthentic joy, while the teacher tries to look like he or she is in
a bliss. Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate. Why to
meditate if we are already all Awakened?

But Is this really Advaita? Is Advaita a poor repetition of a
several slogans like 'There is nobody there,' 'You are That,' You are
already Awakened' or 'There is no Path', etc.? Has this anything to do
with teaching of great masters like N. Maharaj or Sri Ramana
Maharishi? Ramana sat in caves for 20 years before he could be really
complete. In his presence disciples had to meditate for months and
years before they could receive from him the glimpse of the Self.

It is true that New Millennium is a time of global awakening. But
this awakening is mostly partial and relative to the level of most
people's unconsciousness. It was Jesus who said that there would be a
time when many false teachers will teach in the name of Light. It
seems to be happening now. Many of these teachers are not necessarily
'bad people' but simply unqualified and lost, in truth. They have
believed too quickly in the thought 'I am now ready to teach!'

It seems that the pauper-isation of satsang culture began after
the death of Poonjaji. Many of his followers started to claim that
Poonjaji approved their 'Awakening.' It seems that they just took him
too literally. It is an Advaita custom to say 'you are already
Awakened.' This is however more a teaching device than a reflection of
reality. And even if some of his disciples had a glimpse of Awakening,
Poonjaji knew very well that in most cases neither it was permanent
nor the final state.


An example was Andrew Cohen who was sent to give satsang in
the west. He was meant to represent Poonjaji and attract more
westerners to Lucknow. But he and others thought that Poonjaji
actually conformed his Enlightenment. For that reason, Cohen became
very hurt when Poonjaji started to criticize him when he began to act
as a master. From this wound came later the magazine 'What is
Enlightenment?' which more represents Cohen's own insecurity and an
unsuccessful attempt to heal himself than a genuine search for
clarity. By the endless investigation into states of all possible
masters, and not being able to come to any true conclusion, he has
been just confusing his students. The only thing which at the end
remains clear from his seemingly 'sincere' efforts to find clarity is
that nobody has the least idea 'What Enlightenment Is!'


It is not our intention to suggest that nobody reaches
Enlightenment. We just wish to make it clear (similar as 

[FairfieldLife] THE FIVE DEGREES OF TOZAN

2005-10-02 Thread akasha_108
THE FIVE DEGREES OF TOZAN



The Five Degrees of Tozan, also known as the Five Ranks of Tozan,
are different levels of Realization formulated by Zen master Tozan
Ryokai, known as Tung-shan Liang-chieh in Chinese (806-869).


* The Apparent within the Real:
  Coming within the Absolute
  [sho-chu-hen]

* The Real within the Apparent:
  Arriving within the Relative
  [hen-chu-sho]

* The Coming from within the Real:
  The Relative within the Absolute
  [sho-chu-rai]

* The Arrival at Mutual Integration:
  The Absolute within the Relative
  [ken-chu-shi] (see)

* Unity Attained:
  Arrival within Both at the Once
  [ken-chu-to] (see) 


I. The Apparent within the Real:

Coming within the Absolute [sho-chu-hen]

The rank of The Apparent within the Real denotes the rank of the
Absolute, the rank in which one experiences the Great Death, shouts
KA! sees Tao, and enters into the Principle. When the true
practitioner, filled with power from his secret study, meritorious
achievements, and hidden practices, suddenly bursts through into this
rank,  the empty sky vanishes and the iron mountain crumbles.
Above, there is not a tile to cover his head; below, there is not an
inch of ground for him to stand on. The delusive passions are
non-existent, Enlightenment is non-existent, Samsara is non-existent,
Nirvana is non-existent. This is the state of total empty solidity,
without sound and without odor, like a bottomless clear pool. It is as
if every fleck of cloud had been wiped from the vast sky. Too often
the disciple, considering that his attainment of this rank is the end
of the Great Matter and his discernment of the Buddha-way complete,
clings to it to the death and will not let go of it. Such as this is
called it stagnant water  Zen; such a man is called  an evil spirit
who keeps watch over the corpse in the coffin. Even though he remains
absorbed in this state for thirty or forty years, he will never get
out of the cave of the self-complacency and inferior fruits of the
Pratyeka-buddha. Therefore it is said: He whose activity does not
leave this rank sinks into the poisonous sea. He is the man that
Shakyamuni Buddha called  the fool who gets his realization in the
rank of the Real. Therefore, though as long as he remains in this
hiding place of quietude, passivity and vacantness, inside and outside
are transparent and his understanding perfectly clear, the moment the
bright insight [he has thus far gained through his practice] comes
into contact with differentiation's defiling conditions of turmoil and
confusion, agitation and vexation, love and hate, he will find himself
utterly helpless before them, and all the miseries of existence will
press in upon him. It was in order to save him from this serious
illness that the rank of  The Real within the Apparent  was
established as an expedient.


II. The Real within the Apparent:

Arriving within the Relative [hen-chu-sho]

If the disciple had remained in the rank of The Apparent within
the Real, his judgment would always have been vacillating and his
view prejudiced. Therefore, the bodhisattva of superior capacity
invariably leads his daily life in the realm of the [six] dusts, the
realm of all kinds of ever-changing differentiation. All the myriad
phenomena before his eyes-the old and the young, the honorable and the
base, halls and pavilions, verandahs and corridors, plants and trees,
mountains and rivers-he regards as his own original, true, and pure
aspect. It is just like looking into a bright mirror and seeing his
own face in it. If he continues for a long time to observe everything
everywhere with this radiant insight, all appearances of themselves
become the jeweled mirror of his own house, and he becomes the jeweled
mirror of their houses as well. Dogen Zenji has said: The
experiencing of the manifold dharmas through using oneself is
delusion; the experiencing of oneself through the coming of the
manifold dharmas is Satori. This is just what I have been saying.
This is the state of  mind and body discarded, discarded mind and
body. It is like two mirrors mutually reflecting one another without
even the shadow of an image between. Mind and the objects of mind are
one and the same; things and oneself are not two.  A white horse
enters the reed flowers snow is piled up in a silver bowl. This is
what is known as the jeweled-mirror Samadhi. This is what the Nirvana
Sutra is speaking about when it says: The Tathagata sees the
Buddha-nature with his own eyes. When you have entered this samadhi,
though you push the great white ox, he does not go away; the
Universal Nature Wisdom manifests itself before your very eyes. This
is what is meant by the expressions, There exists only one Vehicle,
the Middle Path,  the True Form,  the Supreme Truth. But, if the
student, 

[FairfieldLife] The Five Varieties of Zen

2005-10-02 Thread akasha_108
The Five Varieties of Zen

PRESENTED BY
the Wanderling

An old Zen student called Hsiang-yen went to dokusan with
Kuei-shan Ling-yu (771-853), the T'ang dynasty master, and Kuei-shan
gave him a koan, of which over and over he was unable to see into it's
mysteries.

Hsiang-yen decided that it was all too much for him and he
would surrender. He went away and found a sacred site, the grave of
the Sixth Patriarch of Chinese Zen, Hui-neng, and maintained it as a
shrine. Day in and day out he had no thought about the world except
his sweeping. Then one day, sweeping away, he swept a pebble into a
bamboo grove beside the shrine. The pebble hit a piece of hollow
bamboo and went ping! and he jumped up and down.

The ping! shook him to pieces and he said, One ping! and I
have forgotten all I knew! and he composed a poem in his excitement:
Last year's poverty was not true poverty, this year even the wind can
get through. Hsiang-yen was Enlightened (source)




Among the various types of Zen presented to the people of today
there are some which are profound and some shallow, some that lead to
Enlightenment and some that do not. It is said that during the time of
the Buddha there were ninety or ninety-five schools of philosophy or
religion in existence. Each school had its particular mode of
practice, each was slightly different from the other. Since most
religions have prayer in some form or another and prayer needs
concentration of mind, most religions have at least a whiff of Zen.
The different methods of concentration, almost limitless in number,
come under the broad heading of Zen. Rather than try to specify all of
them, the five main divisions of Zen as classified by Keiho-zenji, one
of the early Zen masters in China, whose categories are still valid
and useful, will be discussed here. Outwardly these five kinds of Zen
scarcely differ, however beginners need to bear in mind that in the
substance and purpose of these various types there are distinct
differences.
I. BOMPU

The first of these types is called bompu, or ordinary, Zen as
opposed to the other four, each of which can be thought of as a
special kind of Zen suitable for the particular aims of different
individuals. Bompu Zen, being free from any philosophic or religious
content, is for anybody and everybody. It is a Zen practiced purely in
the belief that it can improve both physical and mental health. Since
it can almost certainly have no ill effects, anyone can undertake it,
whatever religious beliefs he happens to hold or if he holds none at
all. Bompu Zen is bound to eliminate sickness of a psychosomatic
nature and to improve the health generally.

Through the practice of bompu Zen you learn to concentrate and
control your mind. It never occurs to most people to try to control
their minds, and unfortunately this basic training is left out of
contemporary education, not being part of what is called the
acquisition of knowledge. Yet without it what we learn is difficult to
retain because we learn it improperly, wasting much energy in the
process. Indeed, we are virtually crippled unless we know how to
restrain our thoughts and concentrate our minds. Furthermore, by
practicing this very excellent mode of mind training you will find
yourself increasingly able to resist temptations to which you had
previously succumbed, and to sever attachments which had long held you
in bondage. An enrichment in personality and a strengthening of
character inevitably follow since the three basic elements of mind -
that is, intellect, feeling, and will - develop harmoniously. The
quietist sitting practiced in Confucianism seems to have stressed
mainly these effects of mind concentration. However, the fact remains
that bompu Zen, although far more beneficial for the cultivation of
the mind than the reading of countless books on ethics and philosophy,
is unable to resolve the fundamental problem of man and his relation
to the universe. Why? Because it cannot pierce the ordinary man's
basic delusion of himself as distinctly other than the universe. (BACK)

SEE:
Laya


II. GEDO

The second of the five kinds of Zen is called gedo. Gedo means
literally an outside way and so implies, from the Buddhist point of
view, teachings other than Buddhist. Here we have a Zen related to
religion and philosophy but yet not a Buddhist Zen. Hindu yoga, the
quietist sitting of Confucianism, contemplation practices in
Christianity, all these belong to the category of gedo Zen.

Another feature of gedo Zen is that it is often practiced in order
to cultivate various supranormal powers or skills, or to master
certain arts beyond the reach of the ordinary man. It has been
reported that some who have practiced this Zen have attained the
ability to make people act without them having to say a word or move a
muscle. There is something called the Emma Method which aims to
accomplish such feats as walking barefooted on sharp sword blades or

[FairfieldLife] The curious voice of David Lynch

2005-10-02 Thread bbrigante


http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=30097

The most curious thing about any conversation with David Lynch is 
inarguably his voice. While one might imagine a kind of Hannibal 
Lector bite, instead Lynch is completely benign, if not charming. 
Propped beneath a nasally voice, his words are thoughtfully crafted 
and delivered with kind decorum. He sounds like an intercepted 1957 
radio ad for Wonder Bread.

Yes, this is the same David Lynch that filmed Willem Dafoe's head 
pop like rank melon in Wild at Heart. Yes, even the same David 
Lynch that gorgeously equated rape with morbid childhood sexuality 
in Blue Velvet. And, yes, even the same creator of that 
decomposing Rastafarian in Mulholland Drive.

Today at Battell Chapel, Lynch will be delivering a speech about 
both his brilliantly insidious films as well as the David Lynch 
Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace. While 
waiting for a flight, Lynch explained this labyrinthine title: 
basically, Lynch wants to work meditation into our everyday lives, 
with the end goal of creating world peace. And you thought Lost 
Highway was ambitious. 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita

2005-10-02 Thread sinhlnx
Excellent article on previous postmakes it all the more important 
to formulate a set of objective/relative signs which attest to one's 
Enlightenment, realization of the Self.  But this is problematic 
within the context of the groundrules laid out by the proponents of 
Pseudo-Advaita, of where are many in the Web.  A quick google can 
uncover a few dozen of them.  Most are devottes of Ramana Maharshi, a 
few of Nisargadatta Maharaj, and at least one of Adi Da.; or in the 
lineages of these people.  (which is in itself a contradiction since 
Ramana Maharshi didn't setup a lineage.  Gangaji claims she is in 
the lineage of Ramana since she is a devotee of HWL Poonja and the 
latter was a devotee of Ramana.  At any rate, let's briefly discuss 
the problem involved in stating that one is Enlightened ; first 
within the context of the Neo-Advaitins then within the context of 
Buddhism.
 1. In the Pseudo- or Neo-Advaitin tradition: Ramana Maharshi, HWL 
Poonja, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Gangaji, I-Nome, Andrew Cohen, Adi Da, 
etc
 The problem arises since Ramana Maharshi himself stated that any 
talk of I'm Enlishtened is a lot of nonsense since there's no I 
left to claim it.  This should stop a lot of self-styled Neo-
Advaitins in their tracks straight away since lots of them have 
websites and obviously want to let on that they are Enlightened; but 
have difficulting enunciating that. They are left in a quandary: a. 
don't state it and thus potentially be left out of the adulation they 
crave by having sycophants worship them, attend their lectures, give 
donations,  OR do make the bold claim and risk contradicting Ramana's 
teaching.  If they go around saying I'm enlightened, then people 
will become suspect in that making the claim outright have resorted 
to then, is to avoid certain taboo statements such as I'm 
Enlightened (but Andrew Cohen goes ahead and makes such a claim 
anyway).; and allude rather to certain peripheral statements of which 
there many.  These are certain pet code or buzz phrases intended to 
convey the information that I'm enlightened ...but not allowed to 
say it outright; so I will resort to the code words.
  2.  The MMY/TM org solution is to zero in in certain symptons of 
Enlightenment which must be present for those in CC  or higher but 
not present in those not in CC such as continuous Witnessing 
throughout the sleep state.  The shortcoming here is that the list of 
symptoms appears to be mighty short, unless there are others conveyed 
during personal communications with the bonavide Teacher. (besides 
MMY, who would these people be?). The very notion that there are 
criteria for judging whether or not people are Enlightened is 
rejected by the Neo-advaitins but is no problem for MMY, whom in his 
cleverness has (more than anybody else) seen that for every state of 
Consciousness, there are corresponding physiological states. Although 
one cannot adequately describe Enlightenment, the physiological 
components CAN be described, (somethingthe Neo-Advaitins have 
overlooked).
 3. Buddhism probably has the most complete and through framework for 
determining if the person is Enlightened; and some of these criteria 
were listed previously. 
4. Other traditions, Sant Mat for example.  The major goal here is 
God Consciousness which is probably the same as GC in MMY's scheme. A 
few of the Sant Mat Gurus probably were Enlightened but the Sant Mat 
Tradition basically can't deal with the idea of non-dualism and 
there's no conceptual framework for Advaita in Sant Mat since the 
founders of that Tradition reject Shankara.
Well, that's about it. To conclude, many of the Neo-Advaitins want to 
claim Enlightenment for themselves but run into problem since their 
major founder Ramana Maharshi rejected the very idea of a claim as 
being delusional.  Certain Neo-Advaitins such as Andrew Cohen have 
gone against Ramana's teachings with some risk to their reputations; 
and have indeed come up with their own long lists of the symptoms of 
Enlightenment, to wit: (Andrew's magazine What is Enlightenment goes 
into this question in vertually every issue.  Unfortunately for 
Andrew, if one of the criterions is Your Mother must say you're 
Elnlightened then Andrew is a failure in that regard since his Mom 
wrote a whole book listing the various symptoms of Andrew's big Ego.  
This begs the question then - are these real symptons of a Ego are 
just apparent symptoms ?  I say - a cow is a cow regardless.  What's 
your opinion?
 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Multiple Interpretations Possible

2005-10-02 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  That's the most important part of juggling, actually: The Drop.
  
  All of us master the drop before we master any other trick.
 
 HA! To see perfection in imperfection and imperfection in perfection -
-
  this is Wisdom indeed, O Lawsonji
 
 
 :-)

The very best jugglers in the world make The Drop part of the act. I 
once saw the Brothers Karimarzov (sp) doing a fancy club-passing 
routine when one of the Brothers sent a club flying apparently at 
random. He elaborately shrugged, casually walked through the web of 
clubs that were flying around, picked it up, threw it over his shoulder 
into the web of clubs and went back to his spot without anyone missing 
a beat. That was when we realized that it was part of the act. You cant 
be THAT casual about covering up a mistake unless you've practiced that 
particular mistake hundreds or even thousands of times.

There's also a variation of juggling where The Drop is the whole act. 
It's a lot easier than normal toss juggling. I can mange 4 SOMETIMES in 
normal juggling, but 5 or more balls is easy to do when you bounce them 
instead of throw them. 5 balls in toss juggling is considered low-end 
professional level. I've seen people do 8 or 10 in bounce juggling 
without breaking a sweat, and I think I've managed 6 or 7.








 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





Re: [FairfieldLife] The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita

2005-10-02 Thread Vaj



On 10/2/05 5:05 PM, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has
 been much manipulated. Satsang has been Americanized. In an average
 satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and
 unauthentic joy, while the teacher tries to look like he or she is in
 a bliss. Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate. Why to
 meditate if we are already all Awakened?

I had posted this here before, glad to see it again.

The thing you have to understand is that not everyone is a follower of a
commercial guru. Many people have been trained in all the various bhumis or
stages of the path, and often completely in numerous paths. In addition
there will be people who have different levels of experience on these paths
and their signs--inner, our and secret. What happens when they see people
who, claiming to be enlightened or awakened but lack the experiences and
the accumulations--and the signs--of aspects of the path? What of those who
have had their View authenticated by their lineage and hear awakened ones
expressing incorrect View. These people do know. Others may not, but 'you
can only fool some of the people, some of the time.'

It's naïve to assume these states are unverifiable. The are verifiable by
other experiencers.




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita

2005-10-02 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sinhlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
  1. In the Pseudo- or Neo-Advaitin tradition: Ramana Maharshi, 
 HWL Poonja, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Gangaji, I-Nome, Andrew Cohen, 
 Adi Da, etc

I just skimmed the article, so maybe this is
answered and I missed it, but why would Ramana
be a Neo-Advaitin?  More generally, what's the
distinction between pseudo- and Neo-Advaitins
and Advaitins?

  The problem arises since Ramana Maharshi himself stated that any 
 talk of I'm Enlishtened is a lot of nonsense since there's no I 
 left to claim it.

Seems to me one shouldn't get so hung up on
words that one is left without a way to
communicate one's state of consciousness.





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sinhlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What's 
 your opinion?

Mine is this: We see what we want to see, and what we see is *always* 
some aspect of our Self. (What else is there?) If what we see doesn't 
*appear* to be some aspect of our Self, it's because we have certain 
preconceptions about what our Self *is* that don't match our 
perceptions. If we truly want to know our Self in its fullness, we are 
continually called and challenged to surrender our preconceptions into 
an acceptance of that which is standing right in in front of us.

:-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sinhlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  What's 
  your opinion?
 
 Mine is this: We see what we want to see, and what we see is 
*always* 
 some aspect of our Self. (What else is there?) If what we see 
doesn't 
 *appear* to be some aspect of our Self, it's because we have certain 
 preconceptions about what our Self *is* that don't match our 
 perceptions. If we truly want to know our Self in its fullness, we 
are 
 continually called and challenged to surrender our preconceptions 
into 
 an acceptance of that which is standing right in in front of us.
 
 :-)

Or, if this doesn't ring for us in this moment, perhaps we are called 
in the opposite direction -- to completely deny everything we have 
identified with, until the Self stands utterly alone. Whole-hearted or 
empty-hearted, the end-result would appear to be the same, so long as 
we are consistent and integral.

:-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita

2005-10-02 Thread eptfnj
 This begs the question then - are these real symptons of a Ego 
 are just apparent symptoms ?  I say - a cow is a cow regardless.  
 What's your opinion?


A person self-stimulates themselves
while viewing/reading a pornographic magazine.
The resulting physiological reaction is actual.
The feelings arising are quite real to the person.
The person proclaims I am the greater lover of all.

Real to them. 

Maybe others that read porno books and do self-stimulation
can relate.

Illusion?

Reading so-called Holy Books and effortlessly thinking
some special word can create interesting feelings
and physiological reactions.

Enlightenment or illusion?






 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Creationism verses Evolution

2005-10-02 Thread off_world_beings
Creationism:
http://justlikethat.homestead.com/ 

Evolution:
http://www.emmauscomputing.com/Executive_RePackaging/lgmagic.jpg 



OffWorld




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] THE FUTURE OF MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIPS Part II

2005-10-02 Thread Rasa Von Werder
THE FUTURE OF MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIPS Part II

Rasa Von Werder
WWW.WomanThouArtGod.com
September 29, 2005

Outline of Themes

I.  The relationships of female to female will change.  There will be
more open lesbian liaisons and also, women will bond in order to work
together.  No more scratching each other's eyes out because we are an
oppressed group scrambling for the resources controlled by men.  

2.  Homosexuality, male and female, will be out in the open.  People
will not ridicule homosexuals any more as they will realize it is not
a choice.  The agenda of the old boy's club will be revealed.  People
will see the hypocrisy, prudishness and hysteria about sex a thing of
the past.

3.  Sex attitudes will change entirely.  There will be no denouncing
of masturbation, fornication and adultery, nudity and sexiness from
the pulpits of the female-based churches.  

4.  In religion there will be  major changes.  The orthodox religions
will pass into the background.  First, women will become prominent in
orthodox churches, giving way to inclusive language and then ideas. 
Scriptures will be reinterpreted in favor of the Feminine Divine.
The orthodox churches which refuse women equal ministry and authority
will decline drastically and wither away due to lack of funds.  Those
which remain will be seen as old, archaic, backward cults.  Holding
onto the stiff, anti-woman puritanical laws, these people will be
viewed as out-of-date and out- of-step, totally deluded  darkened. But
since we have freedom of religion, it will still be practiced, but
less and less so.  In fact, people will leave orthodox churches in
droves even though they  include more females .  They are tired of the
old bible (which has been such a terrible motive or excuse for
violence, sexism, discrimination and judgementalism)  and ready to
discover new paths.

There will be a resurgence of Eastern thought, (already strong)
meditation and gnosis; people going within and finding their own way. 

The underground religions of Wicca, Pagans, Druids, Pantheists,
Gnostics and so forth will come into the forefront, as well as ancient
worship of Egyptian goddesses like Isis and many others .  Each sect -
Christian, Jew, even Muslim, will bring forth their pantheon of
goddesses and these will be worshipped in 
many veneus.  There will be shrines, storefront churches, Temples and
Cathedrals everywhere dedicated to Goddesses.  The common man and
woman on the street, wherever they may be, will be able to find
worship in big or small Temples to MotherGod, a welcome relief from
days gone by.  People will be amazed as to how Mother worship was
stifled for so long.

The media will have representation for the women's spirituality  equal
to that of men - and then in time - surpassing the 'male God' religions.

There will begin to be a representation of women's beliefs on
televison. First, a station here and there.  Then a network.  Then
more networks that represent this spirituality as well as all
interests, activities, and herstory gone by. Amazing things will be
brought forth, and people will  be galvanized.  They will breathe a
sigh of relief as the old stuffy, repressed, frightening religions of
men will exit out the door.
Young people will see options that appeal to them rather than make
them feel life is over before it begins.

You will go from fear/guilt-/repression  religions to love/light/joy
based modalities.  You will go from hypocrisy to acceptance and
tolerance.  From prudishness and condemnation you will have personal
freedom and relaxation.
Nothing about the new behavior will be immoral.  It will be a breath
of fresh air.  Nudism will abound - not considerd particularly sexual
and certainly not evil.  People will walk around naked in their homes
and back yards.  Children will also go naked if they please and it
will not be considered irresponsible to have family nudity.  Nudity
will be an accepted way of life and people will not be automatically
shocked and tittilated at the naked body any more. Just a part of
MotherGod's creation. 

5.  There will be a great decrease in two terrible things:  abortion
and child abuse.  First, women will now have sex when they want to and
will not be forced into it.  (Of course in third world countries, this
force will take time to eradicate.)  Since women will have control
over their bodies and sexuality, they will get pregnant less, and at
the time they are ready for children, and this will eliminate huge
numbers of abortions.

Second, the care of children, now that women are freed up, will
accelerate dramatically.  Women will have spy cameras in the homes and
children will have chips in their bodies (non harmful, just under the
skin) which allows them to be monitored at all times.  If a child is
taken away or kidnapped, it will be found quickly.  Child abusers will
be dealt with as never before.

6.  New safety measures.  There will be bracelets, brooches, rings and
medals by which women, children and men can get 

[FairfieldLife] Re: THE FUTURE OF MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIPS Part II

2005-10-02 Thread off_world_beings
3. Sex attitudes will change entirely. There will be no denouncing
of masturbation, fornication and adultery, nudity and sexiness from
the pulpits of the female-based churches.

Now thats what I'm talking about !
Does anyone remember Pussy Galore from 007 movies? 
She is the woman of the future ! 
Bring it on Mama ! Pussy galore.exzellent

OffWorld




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: THE FUTURE OF MALE-FEMALE RELATIONSHIPS Part II

2005-10-02 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rasa Von Werder [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Men who are passive and submissive to women will now be an asset, not
 a defect, as women get more macho and powerful and need simple 
comfort
 and support.  

*lol* Nothing wrong with a simple reversal of roles, of course, but 
how about an envisoning of a partnership of genuine equality and 
balance between *two* powerful, self-actualized people?

:-)




 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Intelligent Design - - (What would happen if Hagelin...?)

2005-10-02 Thread bbrigante
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/opinion/28dennett.html

Is intelligent design a legitimate school of scientific thought? 
Is there something to it, or have these people been taken in by one 
of the most ingenious hoaxes in the history of science? Wouldn't 
such a hoax be impossible? No. Here's how it has been done.

First, imagine how easy it would be for a determined band of 
naysayers to shake the world's confidence in quantum physics - how 
weird it is! - or Einsteinian relativity. In spite of a century of 
instruction and popularization by physicists, few people ever really 
get their heads around the concepts involved. Most people eventually 
cobble together a justification for accepting the assurances of the 
experts: Well, they pretty much agree with one another, and they 
claim that it is their understanding of these strange topics that 
allows them to harness atomic energy, and to make transistors and 
lasers, which certainly do work... 

Fortunately for physicists, there is no powerful motivation for such 
a band of mischief-makers to form. They don't have to spend much 
time persuading people that quantum physics and Einsteinian 
relativity really have been established beyond all reasonable doubt. 

With evolution, however, it is different. The fundamental scientific 
idea of evolution by natural selection is not just mind-boggling; 
natural selection, by executing God's traditional task of designing 
and creating all creatures great and small, also seems to deny one 
of the best reasons we have for believing in God. So there is plenty 
of motivation for resisting the assurances of the biologists. Nobody 
is immune to wishful thinking. It takes scientific discipline to 
protect ourselves from our own credulity, but we've also found 
ingenious ways to fool ourselves and others. Some of the methods 
used to exploit these urges are easy to analyze; others take a 
little more unpacking. 





 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 
Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page
http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM
~- 

To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/