[FairfieldLife] Re: Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 You might enjoy reading Hyam Maccoby's The Myth-Maker:
 Paul and the Invention of Christianity.  Maccoby is
 a Talmudic scholar and makes what seems to me to be
 a very tight case for much of what I outlined in the
 paragraph above, although needless to say it's
 controversial.  Among other very interesting points,
 he makes a stunning analysis of the components of Paul's
 theology and how they differed from what we know of
 Jesus's.
 
 Basically, Jesus wasn't attempting to start a brand-new
 religion; he was a Jewish reformer, and the early Jesus
 movement was exclusively Jewish.  Christianity's
 subsequent split from Judaism we owe to Paul.

You might also enjoy (possibly a lot more, because
you'll be laughing most of the time) Chris Moore's
lovely book, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff,
Christ's Childhood Pal.  It takes approximately
the same view, but with humor added.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 You might also enjoy (possibly a lot more, because
 you'll be laughing most of the time)

Thanks for the recommendation.

Just for the record, I love to laugh and do it at
every opportunity.  But I don't find it *more*
enjoyable than pursuing a fascinating idea.  Both
are intensely rewarding, but in different ways.

Once in a while the two coincide, and those moments
are extra-special.  But neither one by itself takes
precedence, in my experience.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
 Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
 probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
 of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
 keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.

What he posted is almost certainly a phishing
or viral email.  

It isn't even in English:

Your e-mail account will be disabled because of
improper using in next three days, if you are still
wishing to use it, please, resign your account
information.

For details see the attach.

I hope he didn't open the attachment, or click
on any links in the body of the email or the
attachment, or, God forbid, reveal any of his
personal information.

Yahoo has an address to which to forward such
emails.  He should forward it to:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

If possible, he should reveal the headers in his
email client before sending it.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 snip
  You might also enjoy (possibly a lot more, because
  you'll be laughing most of the time)
 
 Thanks for the recommendation.
 
 Just for the record, I love to laugh and do it at
 every opportunity.  But I don't find it *more*
 enjoyable than pursuing a fascinating idea.  Both
 are intensely rewarding, but in different ways.
 
 Once in a while the two coincide, and those moments
 are extra-special.  But neither one by itself takes
 precedence, in my experience.

That's exactly the thing with Chris.  There is a
trap (in my opinion) that a lot of people fall
into -- believing that to be serious about some-
thing, you have to appear to be SERIOUS.  It isn't
true.  You can examine a subject thoroughly, and
with historical accuracy (as in the case of Lamb),
but while retaining your ability to laugh at it 
all and while helping others to do the same.
Chris is a master at doing this.

Not to mention that his book is truly lovely.  He
had the opportunity to take the low road in it,
and be satirical or mocking about the Christ story.
But instead he took the plotline described in
the Gospels as...uh...gospel, and then invented
a new point of view from which to tell the same
events.  He invented Biff, this kinda gross, un-
subtle guy who grew up with Josh (Jeshua, Jesus),
and thus is the *only* person on the planet who
is not in total awe of him.  In my opinion it's
a *brilliant* concept for a book.  This is a 
fictional version of the Gospel I always wanted
to read, and never got to because the original 
authors were too emotionally involved to *not*
put Jesus up on a pedestal when writing about
him.  Biff never puts Josh on a pedestal, and
as a result you gain remarkable insights into
a story you thought you already knew.

I've given this book to priests, rabbis, Zen
masters, Tibetan lamas, etc.  ALL have thanked
me for it, and all have said that they learned
a lot about Jesus from it.  It was quite a feat
of writing for a guy who is primarily known for
his off-the-wall humorous books.

Besides, you get to learn what the H in Jesus
H. Christ stands for.  What is not to like
about that?  :-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 Yahoo has an address to which to forward such
 emails.  He should forward it to:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nuts.  I forgot that Yahoo truncates email
addresses on the Web site.

What follows the @ sign is: cc-dot-yahoo-inc-dot-com.







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[FairfieldLife] Anyone know this fellow?

2005-10-10 Thread cardemaister
 The giitaartha-sangrahaH of Sri **yaamunaachaarya** ( an 
% AchArya of the Sri Vaishnava tradition) 

(sample: 3/32)

engtitle{.. Essence of Bhagvad Gita by Shri Yamunacharya ..}##
\itxtitle{.. giitaartha sa.ngraha ..}##\endtitles ##
svadharmaGYaanavairaagyasaadhyabhak{}tyekagocharaH .
naaraayaNaH paraM brahma giitaashaastre samiiritaH .. 1..
GYaanakarmaatmike niShThe yogalakshye susaMs_kR^ite .
aatmaanubhuutisiddhyarthe puurvaShaTkena chodite .. 2..
madhyame bhagavattattvayaathaatmyaavaaptisiddhaye .
GYaanakarmaabhinirvartyo bhak{}tiyogaH prakiirtitaH .. 3..
pradhaanapuruShavyak{}tasarveshvaravivechanam .

I like that Sanskrit much more than Shankara's,
although I only can translate a short passage here and there.
The rhythm of Yaamuna's Sanskrit is almost intoxicating,
so to speak! I wish he would've used somewhat shorter compound
words, though, LOL!





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[FairfieldLife] Lamb (was Re: Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ)

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 You might also enjoy (possibly a lot more, because
 you'll be laughing most of the time) Chris Moore's
 lovely book, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff,
 Christ's Childhood Pal.  It takes approximately
 the same view, but with humor added.

Chris on the writing of Lamb:

When I began writing the comic version of the gospels, I took a sort 
of Hippocratic oath to myself - that is: First, do no harm. I wanted 
to do this book without attacking anyone's faith, and without 
questioning the spiritual precepts of Christ's identity as set down 
in the New Testament. As far as LAMB would be concerned, Jesus was 
who the Bible says he was, so I had to color within those lines. To 
do otherwise would have been mean-spirited, which is the only thing 
I feel is off limits for humorous exploration. But all that came 
later. First I had to decide to tell this story, and it came to me 
this way… 

I'm reading a novel called The Master and Margarita, by Mikhail 
Bulgakov. I come across this section which is the trial of Jesus as 
told from the point of view of Pontius Pilate, and I find that I'm 
completely sucked in by the humanity of the characters. And I'm 
wondering why, after hearing this story all my life, I'm suddenly 
affected by it, and I realize that it is, indeed, the point of view. 

So a couple of months pass, and I'm thinking about the story of 
Jesus, and PBS Frontline does this series called From Jesus to 
Christ, by which I am informed that except for one incident in the 
gospel of Luke, the Bible basically ignores nearly thirty years of 
Christ's life. And I say, Hey, someone should write that part. So 
I set out trying to learn what I can about Israel in the first 
century, and all the time I'm thinking, I need a witness. I need a 
point of view. I needed a guy who witnessed the missing years. I 
needed a guy who didn't view Jesus so much as a savior, but as a 
person. A guy who was so obnoxious that he was purposely edited out 
of the New Testament. I needed Christ's best friend -- Biff. 

Imagine that you're a very average kid, but your best friend happens 
to be the best athlete in town, the captain of all the teams, the 
best looking, the most popular, the smartest, and you are basically 
trying to find your own identity while being eclipsed by your 
friend's presence. Pretty tough, huh? You'd have to be resilient, 
you'd have to have a sense of humility, in fact, you really couldn't 
be a good friend to this guy if you were impressed by his talents. 
This was the process I went through in creating Levi who is called 
Biff, the narrator of LAMB. 

Biff is a good guy, he's fiercely loyal to his best pal Joshua bar 
Joseph (Jesus), he's just not all that impressed. The way he deals 
with the ego-crush of hanging out with the Son of God is by 
developing a wicked sense of humor (even to the point of inventing 
sarcasm). He's the perfect guy to give an ironic spin to the 
greatest story ever told. 

Once I had my narrator, it was all about research, about creating 
the world of first century Israel as accurately as I could, while 
exploiting the holes in history so I could tell the tale. The first 
part of the book takes place in Galilee, putting Biff and Josh in 
the midst of a very Tom Sawyer-style mystery (and I did model the 
mystery on that august Twain tome more than a little). The middle 
section takes the boys to the Orient in search of the three wise men 
who were present at Joshua's birth. This becomes, essentially, a log 
of Joshua's search for how to become the man who would save the 
world. He learns the spiritual disciplines of Taoism, Confucianism, 
Buddhism, and Hinduism, while his best pal Biff concentrates on 
chasing girls and learning the finer points of the Kama Sutra from a 
string of harlots. (I like to think of this section as Josh and 
Biff's Excellent Adventure) LAMB finishes up with a behind-the-
scenes view of Joshua's ministry and the events that transformed a 
poor kid from Galilee into the most influential human being ever to 
walk the Earth. (Think Butch and Sundance do Jerusalem.) 

For me, LAMB started out as a further exploration of the phenomenon 
of faith and the responsibility of a messiah that I touched on in 
Coyote Blue and Island of the Sequined Love Nun, but it ended up 
being an exploration of the true meaning of sacrifice, loyalty, and 
friendship.


An excerpt from Chapter One:


You think you know how this story is going to end, but you dont. 
Trust me, I was there. I know.

The first time I saw the man who would save the world he was sitting 
near the central well in Nazareth with a lizard hanging out of his 
mouth. Just the tail end and the hind legs were visible on the 
outside; the head and forelegs were halfway down the hatch. He was 
six, like me, and his beard had not come in fully, so he didnt look 
much like the 

[FairfieldLife] Sri Ramana comment about seeing the enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Ron F
This is a piece from David Godman's interview by Maalok:

   I should also make it clear that Sri Ramana himself readily admitted 
that
enlightenment didn't turn people into paragons of virtue.  Like most great 
Masters
before him, he said that it was impossible to judge whether someone was 
enlightened
by what he or she did or said.  Saintliness does not necessarily go hand in hand
with enlightenment, although most people like to think that it should.  Sri 
Ramana
was a rare conjunction of saintliness and enlightenment, but many other Masters 
and
enlightened beings were not.  They were not less enlightened because they didn't
conform to the social and ethical mores of their 
times, they simply had different destinies to fulfil. 

  In Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Sri Ramana narrates the story of 
Kaduveli
Siddhar, an austere ascetic who attracted public ridicule by having an affair 
with a
temple dancer.  A local king offered a reward to anyone who could prove whether 
this
man really was a saint or not. At the time the challenge was issued, Kaduveli
Siddhar was subsisting on dry leaves that fell from trees.  When the dancer
eventually gave birth to Kaduveli Siddhar's baby, she thought that she had 
proved
her point and went to the king to collect her reward. 

  The king, who wanted some public confirmation of their intimate 
relationship,
arranged a dance performance.  When it was under way, the dancer stretched out 
her
foot towards Kaduveli Siddhar because one of her anklets had become loose.  
When he
retied it for her, the audience jeered at him.  Kaduveli Siddhar was unmoved.  
He
sang a Tamil verse, part of which said, 'If it is true that I sleep day and 
night
quite aware of the Self, may this stone burst into two and become the wide 
expanse'.


  Immediately, a nearby stone idol split apart with a resounding crack, 
much to
the astonishment of the audience.

 Sri Ramana's conclusion to this story was, 'He proved himself to be an
unswerving jnani.  One should not be deceived by the external appearance of a
jnani.' 

  I find it fascinating that Sri Ramana, a man of impeccable saintliness, 
could
say that behaviour such as this could not be taken to indicate that Kaduveli 
Siddhar
was unenlightened.

  The url for the page where you can find the above is:
http://www.davidgodman.org/interviews/al3.shtml

  I guess the above says everything about Ramana's position on this issue of
enlightened humans being involved in sexual (or any other) act.  I guess the 
Jnani
as such has no desires (because his or her mind is dead), but his body is 
completely
used by the power we might call 'god'.  So, in case of a Jnani, action takes 
place
without any desires.  In case of humans whose minds are not dead, desires 
arise.  If
we are aware enough and watch the desires, and any thought for that matter, we 
might
stop taking those actions which are detrimental to our own or some other 
person's
larger interests.

   Of course, sex is not a 'bad' thing, but it becomes detrimental when we 
cling
to it and 'want' more of it and often.  Even clinging to tasty food or any other
'thing' is detrimental (probably as detrimental as clinging to sex).  I guess 
in the
most worthy, 'enlightened' state, bliss is always there and there is no 
dependency
even in the least on any external object.  I guess only when one is in the
enlightened state, the most appropriate, 'right' action arises all the time.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread pibssmith
not that anyone does care but first hand I can tell you when I moved 
to FF in 1978,79 or 85 cant recall which time I was in then Kramers 
card shop and ran into Linda Dimick. We had done a course together 
in 76. I was not too friendly just said hello as we were really not 
close friends or anything but she was overly friendly that day. 

She has been a bad girl on our 6 month course sneaking out alot at 
night with another gal to bar hop. She was dismissed from that 
course and got back in the good graces of the movement by marrying 
Dennis Ramondi.( not her reason for marriage but I guess it helped 
in the end at that time) Anyway that is another whole story but I 
think she was being defensive when she saw me in town and right away 
offered up that info perhaps she felt I had heard she and Bevan were 
together well she said  maybe you have heard about me and Bevan , 
it is true. He calls me and Annie ( then a small child) every night 
from around the world. 
I never knew the meaning of this . Perhaps they were very close but 
not romantic or sexual she just said they were linked for sure. I 
never asked her about it again and recall at the time being shocked. 
You have to remember the times this was almost 25 years ago or so. 
So there you go on that story so credible truth . What the nature of 
their relationship I dont know and never did find out. She must have 
been then separated or divorced from Dennis and not yet married to 
Michael and I dont have the time line on that one. Our course where 
she was the bad girl was 76 or so and I moved back to FF on a few 
occasions and cant recall when that was , someone else might know 
her more personally and know the time line of that. But she did at 
some point between marriages have some level of a relationship with 
Bevan and as only she can do she boasted about it or defended 
herself ,not sure which, that day in Kramers book store. Even 
thought in the years that followed we were friendly around town I 
never asked her about what she said that day, as it seemed in the 
past and like you say ,who cares. I recall at the time being rather 
shocked at what she said and that she would bother to say it to me 
we were not close.
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bevans_celibacy 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  This is a partial list of movement women that H.E. Bevan Morris, 
 the 
  Minister of Enlightenment, has been romantically  linked to.  
Any 
  additions or corrections?  Who should we out next?  John 
 Hagelin? 
  Emmanuel Schiffgens?
  
  1. Rowan Barnden
  2. Penny Bell
  3. Susan Daniels
  4. Susie Dilbeck
  5. Lynda Raimondi Dimick
  6. Margie Dubois
  7. Francie Greenfield
  8. Linda Hartnett
  9. Ann Hauptman
  10. Emily Levin
  11. Wendy Mukai
  12. Barbara Ringwalt
  13. Barbara Aprusezze Robson
  14. Karen Rubin
  15. Coral Scranton
  16. Lane Todt
  17. Sue Weller
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread uns_tressor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
  Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
  probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
  of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
  keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.
 
 What he posted is almost certainly a phishing
 or viral email.  
 
 It isn't even in English:
 
 Your e-mail account will be disabled because of
 improper using in next three days, if you are still
 wishing to use it, please, resign your account
 information.
 
 For details see the attach.
 
 I hope he didn't open the attachment...

...which is a .pif file. A dead giveaway. This
address should be blocked; it's been used a few
times before.
Uns.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   if you can't see why this is nasty, you must be
  operating in a
  moral vacuum. 
   Either that, or you're thinking too much. 
  
  Its easy to see why people see the note as nasty.
  Its harder to
  understand the nature of nastiness. To try to do so,
  some may see that
  as thinking too much. Perhaps it is. And some feel
  quite comfortable
  to live with unexamined assumptions. Or are
  oblivious to them. I am
  unclear as to which is more moral.
 
 I get the thrust of your observations Akasha. I
 called it nasty because of the discomfort it would
 cause me if somebody listed all the women I had
 allegedly screwed with the implicit point of, I guess,
 shaming or embarassing me. I'm assuming that is the
 post of the poster/re-poster.

No thrust here, I am just exploring underlying assumptions and a
priori morality. I am not advocating a POV. Not speaking of you
directly, but of all generally, why does a list of past lovers make
one uncomfortable? 

Does one regret the affairs? 

Are some or all affairs secret -- from ones spouse, from friends? 

Were some partners married at the time? 

Was one themselves married at the time? 

Are some or all on the list false? 

Do the affairs contradict ones public statments on morality, thus
exposing one as hypocritical?

Would the list embarass or confuse ones or others children?

Is ones identity or value tied to what others think of oneself?

Is the discomfort stemming from a sense of loss -- the exposure of
personal, delicate, intimate moments which are private, personal and
loose something if exposed to the light of the world?

Does it matter what the intent of the poster is? Thats is, if the same
list were posted by people with quite different motivations, would
that change how one felt?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mel Gibson's The Passion of Christ

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
Thanks.  Good information and book cite. 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 This is certainly one take on it.  You'd get an argument
 from many orthodox Christians, however.
 
 Paul never met Jesus in the flesh; he had a mystical
 encounter, as he told it, with the risen Jesus on the
 road to Damascus (at a time when he was busy persecuting
 Christians as a hired gun for the Sadducees).  He
 converted as a result of this encounter and became
 convinced that Jesus was God.  That's not to say he
 wasn't exposed to Jesus' teachings as they had been
 preserved by Jesus' followers, but how close they were
 to what ended up in the Gospels is anyone's guess.
 
 The Gospels themselves were almost certainly tweaked
 to better conform to Paul's agenda once his faction of
 the Jesus movement had taken over.  That's where the 
 politics comes into it; Jesus' teaching had to be made
 less threatening to the Roman authorities, so Jesus
 was portrayed as more in conflict with the Pharisees
 than the Romans.  (That's one take on it, at any rate.)
 
 You might enjoy reading Hyam Maccoby's The Myth-Maker:
 Paul and the Invention of Christianity.  Maccoby is
 a Talmudic scholar and makes what seems to me to be
 a very tight case for much of what I outlined in the
 paragraph above, although needless to say it's
 controversial.  Among other very interesting points,
 he makes a stunning analysis of the components of Paul's
 theology and how they differed from what we know of
 Jesus's.
 
 Basically, Jesus wasn't attempting to start a brand-new
 religion; he was a Jewish reformer, and the early Jesus
 movement was exclusively Jewish.  Christianity's
 subsequent split from Judaism we owe to Paul.
 
  This being a long and twisting road -- a process
  in which the original Jesus could have been a substantially 
  different being than the one projected to us today.
 
 I think it would be pretty hard to argue that he wasn't
 an extraordinary chap; there isn't much question that
 he left a very strong impression, to whatever degree
 his actual teaching survived.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj
I have no idea--could you send me the original offlist? This is the  
first I've heard about it.

On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:22 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:


 What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
 Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
 probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
 of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
 keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The only thing is--I haven't received any such message. Although  
 nothing surprises me anymore.

This is about an email message Steve received and then
posted to Fairfield Life.  Are you saying you didn't
receive Steve's original post?

It's message 75851 on the Web site if you want to have
a look.



 
 On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:41 AM, authfriend wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
  wrote:
 
 
  What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
  Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
  probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
  of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
  keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.
 
 
  What he posted is almost certainly a phishing
  or viral email.
 
  It isn't even in English:
 
  Your e-mail account will be disabled because of
  improper using in next three days, if you are still
  wishing to use it, please, resign your account
  information.
 
  For details see the attach.
 
  I hope he didn't open the attachment, or click
  on any links in the body of the email or the
  attachment, or, God forbid, reveal any of his
  personal information.
 
  Yahoo has an address to which to forward such
  emails.  He should forward it to:
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  If possible, he should reveal the headers in his
  email client before sending it.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread feste37
You have certainly spent a long time telling of what supposedly no one cares 
about. I guess FFL has become Gossip City, and anything goes. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 not that anyone does care but first hand I can tell you when I moved 
 to FF in 1978,79 or 85 cant recall which time I was in then Kramers 
 card shop and ran into Linda Dimick. We had done a course together 
 in 76. I was not too friendly just said hello as we were really not 
 close friends or anything but she was overly friendly that day. 
 
 She has been a bad girl on our 6 month course sneaking out alot at 
 night with another gal to bar hop. She was dismissed from that 
 course and got back in the good graces of the movement by marrying 
 Dennis Ramondi.( not her reason for marriage but I guess it helped 
 in the end at that time) Anyway that is another whole story but I 
 think she was being defensive when she saw me in town and right away 
 offered up that info perhaps she felt I had heard she and Bevan were 
 together well she said  maybe you have heard about me and Bevan , 
 it is true. He calls me and Annie ( then a small child) every night 
 from around the world. 
 I never knew the meaning of this . Perhaps they were very close but 
 not romantic or sexual she just said they were linked for sure. I 
 never asked her about it again and recall at the time being shocked. 
 You have to remember the times this was almost 25 years ago or so. 
 So there you go on that story so credible truth . What the nature of 
 their relationship I dont know and never did find out. She must have 
 been then separated or divorced from Dennis and not yet married to 
 Michael and I dont have the time line on that one. Our course where 
 she was the bad girl was 76 or so and I moved back to FF on a few 
 occasions and cant recall when that was , someone else might know 
 her more personally and know the time line of that. But she did at 
 some point between marriages have some level of a relationship with 
 Bevan and as only she can do she boasted about it or defended 
 herself ,not sure which, that day in Kramers book store. Even 
 thought in the years that followed we were friendly around town I 
 never asked her about what she said that day, as it seemed in the 
 past and like you say ,who cares. I recall at the time being rather 
 shocked at what she said and that she would bother to say it to me 
 we were not close.
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bevans_celibacy 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   This is a partial list of movement women that H.E. Bevan Morris, 
  the 
   Minister of Enlightenment, has been romantically  linked to.  
 Any 
   additions or corrections?  Who should we out next?  John 
  Hagelin? 
   Emmanuel Schiffgens?
   
   1. Rowan Barnden
   2. Penny Bell
   3. Susan Daniels
   4. Susie Dilbeck
   5. Lynda Raimondi Dimick
   6. Margie Dubois
   7. Francie Greenfield
   8. Linda Hartnett
   9. Ann Hauptman
   10. Emily Levin
   11. Wendy Mukai
   12. Barbara Ringwalt
   13. Barbara Aprusezze Robson
   14. Karen Rubin
   15. Coral Scranton
   16. Lane Todt
   17. Sue Weller
  
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz

SHORT VERSION

Get a life

LONGER VERSION

Is someone's degree of intellectual convolutedness a measure of the
distance remaning to Self-realization?

Is intellectual convolutedness a necessity for mendacious people?

Is posing allegations as questions the sign of an intellectual or a
coward?

FULL VERSION

Yada .. waste of bandwith .. bullshit .. yada ..


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  

 -- snip --

  I get the thrust of your observations Akasha. I
  called it nasty because of the discomfort it would
  cause me if somebody listed all the women I had
  allegedly screwed with the implicit point of, I guess,
  shaming or embarassing me. I'm assuming that is the
  post of the poster/re-poster.
 
 No thrust here, I am just exploring underlying assumptions and a
 priori morality. I am not advocating a POV. Not speaking of you
 directly, but of all generally, why does a list of past lovers make
 one uncomfortable? 
 
 Does one regret the affairs? 
 
 Are some or all affairs secret -- from ones spouse, from friends? 
 
 Were some partners married at the time? 
 
 Was one themselves married at the time? 
 
 Are some or all on the list false? 
 
 Do the affairs contradict ones public statments on morality, thus
 exposing one as hypocritical?
 
 Would the list embarass or confuse ones or others children?
 
 Is ones identity or value tied to what others think of oneself?
 
 Is the discomfort stemming from a sense of loss -- the exposure of
 personal, delicate, intimate moments which are private, personal and
 loose something if exposed to the light of the world?
 
 Does it matter what the intent of the poster is? Thats is, if the same
 list were posted by people with quite different motivations, would
 that change how one felt?







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj
Oh, OK--nevermind. This looks like a virus to me--also the email  
address it takes you to is yahoogroups --sans dot.

Earthlink intercepted it with this message:

This email included an attachment which EarthLink identified
as containing a virus known as 1. Readme.zip: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Oct 10, 2005, at 10:48 AM, authfriend wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 The only thing is--I haven't received any such message. Although
 nothing surprises me anymore.


 This is about an email message Steve received and then
 posted to Fairfield Life.  Are you saying you didn't
 receive Steve's original post?

 It's message 75851 on the Web site if you want to have
 a look.





 On Oct 10, 2005, at 2:41 AM, authfriend wrote:


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:



 What this is about, Steve, is that every so often
 Yahoo decides that you're a spammer.  Someone has
 probably spoofed your Yahoo userid as the source
 of a hundred thousand or so spammessages.  Just
 keep writing to them about it and they'll relent.



 What he posted is almost certainly a phishing
 or viral email.

 It isn't even in English:

 Your e-mail account will be disabled because of
 improper using in next three days, if you are still
 wishing to use it, please, resign your account
 information.

 For details see the attach.

 I hope he didn't open the attachment, or click
 on any links in the body of the email or the
 attachment, or, God forbid, reveal any of his
 personal information.

 Yahoo has an address to which to forward such
 emails.  He should forward it to:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 If possible, he should reveal the headers in his
 email client before sending it.









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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 8:59 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 For details see the attach.
 
 I hope he didn't open the attachment...
 
 ...which is a .pif file. A dead giveaway. This
 address should be blocked; it's been used a few
 times before.
 Uns.

I missed this. What email address am I supposed to block?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
And what specifically in what I wrote unsettles you? 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 
 SHORT VERSION
 
 Get a life
 
 LONGER VERSION
 
 Is someone's degree of intellectual convolutedness a measure of the
 distance remaning to Self-realization?
 
 Is intellectual convolutedness a necessity for mendacious people?
 
 Is posing allegations as questions the sign of an intellectual or a
 coward?
 
 FULL VERSION
 
 Yada .. waste of bandwith .. bullshit .. yada ..
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
  
   
 
  -- snip --
 
   I get the thrust of your observations Akasha. I
   called it nasty because of the discomfort it would
   cause me if somebody listed all the women I had
   allegedly screwed with the implicit point of, I guess,
   shaming or embarassing me. I'm assuming that is the
   post of the poster/re-poster.
  
  No thrust here, I am just exploring underlying assumptions and a
  priori morality. I am not advocating a POV. Not speaking of you
  directly, but of all generally, why does a list of past lovers make
  one uncomfortable? 
  
  Does one regret the affairs? 
  
  Are some or all affairs secret -- from ones spouse, from friends? 
  
  Were some partners married at the time? 
  
  Was one themselves married at the time? 
  
  Are some or all on the list false? 
  
  Do the affairs contradict ones public statments on morality, thus
  exposing one as hypocritical?
  
  Would the list embarass or confuse ones or others children?
  
  Is ones identity or value tied to what others think of oneself?
  
  Is the discomfort stemming from a sense of loss -- the exposure of
  personal, delicate, intimate moments which are private, personal and
  loose something if exposed to the light of the world?
  
  Does it matter what the intent of the poster is? Thats is, if the same
  list were posted by people with quite different motivations, would
  that change how one felt?







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[FairfieldLife] Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
http://www.cream2005.com/





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.cream2005.com/


A clear sign of Sat Yuga. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread Peter
Ginger Baker...the reason I became a drummer. Those
tribal toms! I saw a clip of them playing White Room
from their 2005 Albert Hall performance. They're
actually better than they were in the 60's (and ginger
looks better too!).

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 http://www.cream2005.com/
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread Peter


--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  http://www.cream2005.com/
 
 
 A clear sign of Sat Yuga.

The full Sunshine of Your Love Sat Yuga!

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  http://www.cream2005.com/
 
 A clear sign of Sat Yuga.

But they're British!  Can't be pollutin' your ears
with none of that scorpion music, man.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   http://www.cream2005.com/
  
  A clear sign of Sat Yuga.
 
 But they're British!  Can't be pollutin' your ears
 with none of that scorpion music, man.


Poison is in the ears of the beholder.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
http://www.cream2005.com/
   
   A clear sign of Sat Yuga.
  
  But they're British!  Can't be pollutin' your ears
  with none of that scorpion music, man.
 
 Poison is in the ears of the beholder.

It certainly was for Hamlet's father.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 8:59 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  For details see the attach.
  
  I hope he didn't open the attachment...
  
  ...which is a .pif file. A dead giveaway. This
  address should be blocked; it's been used a few
  times before.
  Uns.
 
 I missed this. What email address am I supposed to block?

It's been used for virus sending before, and has probably be hijacked,
because he was out of town the last time a virus was sent. 

JohnY





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 11:43 AM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 10/10/05 8:59 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 For details see the attach.
 
 I hope he didn't open the attachment...
 
 ...which is a .pif file. A dead giveaway. This
 address should be blocked; it's been used a few
 times before.
 Uns.
 
 I missed this. What email address am I supposed to block?
 
 It's been used for virus sending before, and has probably be hijacked,
 because he was out of town the last time a virus was sent.

What has? I went to that message and it was sent by Steve Briggs, who's a
friend of mine here in Fairfield. Although I doubt he sent it. I emailed him
to ask if he was even using that email address.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh, OK--nevermind. This looks like a virus to me--also the email  
 address it takes you to is yahoogroups --sans dot.

The email address itself is legit.  Look at what's 
at the bottom of every post to FFL:

  To subscribe, send a message to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Steve may be infected; the virus was responsible for
sending the email as a post to FFL.  It has also
most likely opened ports on his computer allowing
remote access and compromised any virus protection
he may have been using (if it wasn't compromised
already).

Info on the Beagle virus (actually a mass-mailing
worm) from Symantec:
http://tinyurl.com/3rw5t






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 11:43 AM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
  on 10/10/05 8:59 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  For details see the attach.
  
  I hope he didn't open the attachment...
  
  ...which is a .pif file. A dead giveaway. This
  address should be blocked; it's been used a few
  times before.
  Uns.
  
  I missed this. What email address am I supposed to block?
  
  It's been used for virus sending before, and has probably be 
hijacked,
  because he was out of town the last time a virus was sent.
 
 What has? I went to that message and it was sent by Steve Briggs,
 who's a friend of mine here in Fairfield. Although I doubt he sent 
 it. I emailed him to ask if he was even using that email address.

The virus sent it; it's the Beagle mass-mailing worm.
It's probably gone to every email address the virus
can find on his computer.

Tell him he needs to do a virus scan on his computer
toot sweet, and update his virus protection once he's
cleaned things up.






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[FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
with us.

This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
Emperor's new new clothes.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 12:01 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 What has? I went to that message and it was sent by Steve Briggs,
 who's a friend of mine here in Fairfield. Although I doubt he sent
 it. I emailed him to ask if he was even using that email address.
 
 The virus sent it; it's the Beagle mass-mailing worm.
 It's probably gone to every email address the virus
 can find on his computer.
 
 Tell him he needs to do a virus scan on his computer
 toot sweet, and update his virus protection once he's
 cleaned things up.

I'll tell him, but he's on a Mac. I don't think he could get this virus.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 12:01 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  What has? I went to that message and it was sent by Steve Briggs,
  who's a friend of mine here in Fairfield. Although I doubt he sent
  it. I emailed him to ask if he was even using that email address.
  
  The virus sent it; it's the Beagle mass-mailing worm.
  It's probably gone to every email address the virus
  can find on his computer.
  
  Tell him he needs to do a virus scan on his computer
  toot sweet, and update his virus protection once he's
  cleaned things up.
 
 I'll tell him, but he's on a Mac. I don't think he could get this virus.


Well, now, that explains why he got it and spread it!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 12:01 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  What has? I went to that message and it was sent by Steve Briggs,
  who's a friend of mine here in Fairfield. Although I doubt he sent
  it. I emailed him to ask if he was even using that email address.
  
  The virus sent it; it's the Beagle mass-mailing worm.
  It's probably gone to every email address the virus
  can find on his computer.
  
  Tell him he needs to do a virus scan on his computer
  toot sweet, and update his virus protection once he's
  cleaned things up.
 
 I'll tell him, but he's on a Mac. I don't think he could get this 
 virus.

Huh.  Macs aren't vulnerable, according to Symantec.

Well, *somebody* who posts here is infected.  Why would
it come from Steve, though?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 12:08 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Huh.  Macs aren't vulnerable, according to Symantec.
 
 Well, *somebody* who posts here is infected.  Why would
 it come from Steve, though?

I just called Steve and he hasn't even looked at FFL in a long time, much
less posted to it.





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[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's designated successor..

2005-10-10 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference?
 
 It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World
 Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable
 of answering any question as well as handling any task.

Tom T:
I have two friends who are Enlightened and they both independently
listened to the press conference of mid September, if the date is
important to the detail freaks I will verify the exact date. In that
Conference MMY explained in great detail how different physiologies
can experience the same unboundedness and talk about it differently.
When it came time for the BM to do his recapitulation gig he was
unable to keep the message straight and in fact turned it around
backwards. It was obvious to both friends that the reason BM couldn't
get it right is that he does not have any experience of E and in fact
was in way over his head. Why MMY is saying BM is E seems beyond
anyones idea. Tom





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[FairfieldLife] Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Regarding the virus





Steve Briggs said:

 
HI Rick---

Yes, Stevebriggs1000 is my yahoo account and its used exclusively for
FFLife, but I haven't been to FFLife site for some time now and haven't
chatted there for months. How about if I cancel that registration with
FFLife and re-enroll with a new address since that address seems to be
corrupted somehow.

Steve

--
 
Rick Archer
SearchSummit
1108 South B Street
Fairfield, IA 52556
Phone: 641-472-9336
Fax: 815-572-5842

http://searchsummit.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning about your e-mail account.

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 12:08 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Huh.  Macs aren't vulnerable, according to Symantec.
  
  Well, *somebody* who posts here is infected.  Why would
  it come from Steve, though?
 
 I just called Steve and he hasn't even looked at FFL in a long time,
 much less posted to it.

You do realize it was posted under his name, right?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
When he changes his registration, he should tell
Yahoo exactly what happened, send them the number
of the post.  Maybe they can figure out where it
came from.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Steve Briggs said:
 
  
 HI Rick---
 
 Yes, Stevebriggs1000 is my yahoo account and its used exclusively 
for
 FFLife, but I haven't been to FFLife site for some time now and 
haven't
 chatted there for months. How about if I cancel that registration 
with
 FFLife and re-enroll with a new address since that address seems to 
be
 corrupted somehow.
 
 Steve
 
 --
  
 Rick Archer
 SearchSummit
 1108 South B Street
 Fairfield, IA 52556
 Phone: 641-472-9336
 Fax: 815-572-5842
 
 http://searchsummit.com
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 12:52 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 When he changes his registration, he should tell
 Yahoo exactly what happened, send them the number
 of the post.  Maybe they can figure out where it
 came from.

What email does one use to do that?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj


On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971, Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits with us.  This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the Emperor's new new clothes. Interesting point.It's different though as we approach Unity and the "extinction of all phenomenon". There's actually a yogic saying on this which states "Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View." In other words, as your consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic potentials.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Poll: Groups Unhappy With Bush Performance

2005-10-10 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
Akasha108 writes: big snip
If a leader is a reflection of the consciousness of their citizens and
Bush is mediocre -- Bush  doesn't have *stature*, tragic flaws, isn't
worthy of a history play, isn't an interesting personality, etc. then
perhaps America is getting enlightened and is simply less attached
to (any significance of) its imperfections, outer projections, and
returning karma. And/or Bush is simply a method to help culture such
an awareness in America's collective consciousness.

Tom T:
As a nation addicted to power and cheap oil we have the best leader we
could ever want. Bush the addict is leading us down the slippery slope
to the bottom that all addicts eventually find as the only way out.
Who else to lead us all there but the epitome of the dangerous addict
who will do anything he has to do to maintain his source. All addicts
protect their source and the ability to satisfy the craving. Old Bushy
here is in the same mode. Just watch him, clever and lying like hell
to keep the whole deal rolling forward. We are along for the ride.
Hope we all learn something and that it doesn't have to be total
bottom for all of us. TOm





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 12:52 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  When he changes his registration, he should tell
  Yahoo exactly what happened, send them the number
  of the post.  Maybe they can figure out where it
  came from.
 
 What email does one use to do that?

Go to the Groups Home page, click on Help, look
for information about how to report abuse.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:
 
  FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
  Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
  habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
  because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
  with us.
 
  This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
  all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
  saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
  of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
  Emperor's new new clothes.
 
 Interesting point.
 
 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all  
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states  
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your  
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust  
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one  
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the  
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic  
 potentials.


I once believed that but I no longer do. 
To me all the whole sheband now means is that whoever you are, however
you act, as you become increasingly free from the binding influence of
action, you become increasingly free from the binding influence of action.
How that plays out is totally individual and all else is mere
moodmaking about the state.

How many TMers adopted a lifestyle commensurate with higher states of
consciousness only to have the whole thing backfire on them? Some seem
to naturally beome nicer people that is until someone cuts them off
while driving, or when they bang their thumb with a hammer.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 1:08 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 10/10/05 12:52 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 When he changes his registration, he should tell
 Yahoo exactly what happened, send them the number
 of the post.  Maybe they can figure out where it
 came from.
 
 What email does one use to do that?
 
 Go to the Groups Home page, click on Help, look
 for information about how to report abuse.

Did it.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Peter


--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
snip

 
 I once believed that but I no longer do. 
 To me all the whole sheband now means is that
 whoever you are, however
 you act, as you become increasingly free from the
 binding influence of
 action, you become increasingly free from the
 binding influence of action.
 How that plays out is totally individual and all
 else is mere
 moodmaking about the state.

Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
of the individual than some assessment of
enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
behavior, period. 



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] John Ono Lennon....audio documentray...Nice.

2005-10-10 Thread off_world_beings
John Ono Lennonaudio documentray...Nice.

http://hearingvoices.com/





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj



On 10/10/05 3:28 PM, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Interesting point.
 
 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic
 potentials.
 
 
 I once believed that but I no longer do.
 To me all the whole sheband now means is that whoever you are, however
 you act, as you become increasingly free from the binding influence of
 action, you become increasingly free from the binding influence of action.
 How that plays out is totally individual and all else is mere
 moodmaking about the state.
 
 How many TMers adopted a lifestyle commensurate with higher states of
 consciousness only to have the whole thing backfire on them? Some seem
 to naturally beome nicer people that is until someone cuts them off
 while driving, or when they bang their thumb with a hammer.

The fine points here are quality and exemplary--as if one has acquired
the state of Unity and can carry it in all actions then one can perform any
action. However there is such a thing as ³losing the Action in the View².
Not all spontaneity is enlightened spontaneity.

Life is in the details--as a tantric Buddha once said  Though my View is as
spacious as the sky, my actions and respect for cause and effect are as fine
as grains of flour.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread pibssmith
I think FFL is fair game, gossip and spiritual , TMO
 If you dont care dont read it
 You have certainly spent a long time telling of what supposedly no 
one cares 
 about. I guess FFL has become Gossip City, and anything goes. 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  not that anyone does care but first hand I can tell you when I 
moved 
  to FF in 1978,79 or 85 cant recall which time I was in then 
Kramers 
  card shop and ran into Linda Dimick. We had done a course 
together 
  in 76. I was not too friendly just said hello as we were really 
not 
  close friends or anything but she was overly friendly that day. 
  
  She has been a bad girl on our 6 month course sneaking out 
alot at 
  night with another gal to bar hop. She was dismissed from that 
  course and got back in the good graces of the movement by 
marrying 
  Dennis Ramondi.( not her reason for marriage but I guess it 
helped 
  in the end at that time) Anyway that is another whole story but 
I 
  think she was being defensive when she saw me in town and right 
away 
  offered up that info perhaps she felt I had heard she and Bevan 
were 
  together well she said  maybe you have heard about me and 
Bevan , 
  it is true. He calls me and Annie ( then a small child) every 
night 
  from around the world. 
  I never knew the meaning of this . Perhaps they were very close 
but 
  not romantic or sexual she just said they were linked for sure. 
I 
  never asked her about it again and recall at the time being 
shocked. 
  You have to remember the times this was almost 25 years ago or 
so. 
  So there you go on that story so credible truth . What the 
nature of 
  their relationship I dont know and never did find out. She must 
have 
  been then separated or divorced from Dennis and not yet married 
to 
  Michael and I dont have the time line on that one. Our course 
where 
  she was the bad girl was 76 or so and I moved back to FF on a 
few 
  occasions and cant recall when that was , someone else might 
know 
  her more personally and know the time line of that. But she did 
at 
  some point between marriages have some level of a relationship 
with 
  Bevan and as only she can do she boasted about it or defended 
  herself ,not sure which, that day in Kramers book store. Even 
  thought in the years that followed we were friendly around town 
I 
  never asked her about what she said that day, as it seemed in 
the 
  past and like you say ,who cares. I recall at the time being 
rather 
  shocked at what she said and that she would bother to say it to 
me 
  we were not close.
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bevans_celibacy 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
This is a partial list of movement women that H.E. Bevan 
Morris, 
   the 
Minister of Enlightenment, has been romantically  linked 
to.  
  Any 
additions or corrections?  Who should we out next?  John 
   Hagelin? 
Emmanuel Schiffgens?

1. Rowan Barnden
2. Penny Bell
3. Susan Daniels
4. Susie Dilbeck
5. Lynda Raimondi Dimick
6. Margie Dubois
7. Francie Greenfield
8. Linda Hartnett
9. Ann Hauptman
10. Emily Levin
11. Wendy Mukai
12. Barbara Ringwalt
13. Barbara Aprusezze Robson
14. Karen Rubin
15. Coral Scranton
16. Lane Todt
17. Sue Weller
   
  
 







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj

On Oct 10, 2005, at 4:06 PM, Peter wrote:

 Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
 more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
 of the individual than some assessment of
 enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
 enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
 such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
 behavior, period.

Yeah, all those buddhafields are just there for decoration!




--

Things are not as they seem,
 nor are they otherwise
 --a Buddhist Sutra






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

-- snip --
 
 Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
 more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
 of the individual than some assessment of
 enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
 enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
 such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
 behavior, period. 
 

In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance. The
first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) always
acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three gunas,
enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.

Given the press conference of lately I would venture a guess that one
is always true but that two is a matter of choice - and then perhaps
what the times require to promote the smoothest evolution possible for
the cosmically assigned area of responsibility (the World, in MMY's case).

History has previously recorded enlightened people acting in manners
that in effect made their physical bodies the focal point for
collective bad karma. The Ultimate Sacrifice, I believe it's called
when people who are not Self-realized passes through this particular
experience. 

What is it called for someone who is enlightened, when a ripple aware
of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in the process performs a
yagya that resounds for millenia to come?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 -- snip --
  
  Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
  more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
  of the individual than some assessment of
  enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
  enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
  such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
  behavior, period. 
  
 
 In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance. The
 first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) always
 acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three gunas,
 enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.
 
 Given the press conference of lately I would venture a guess that one
 is always true but that two is a matter of choice - and then perhaps
 what the times require to promote the smoothest evolution possible for
 the cosmically assigned area of responsibility (the World, in MMY's
case).
 
 History has previously recorded enlightened people acting in manners
 that in effect made their physical bodies the focal point for
 collective bad karma. The Ultimate Sacrifice, I believe it's called
 when people who are not Self-realized passes through this particular
 experience. 
 
 What is it called for someone who is enlightened, when a ripple aware
 of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in the process performs a
 yagya that resounds for millenia to come?


After years of listening and taking in all of the varying explanations
for varieities of understandings and behaviors I don't really believe
that anyone, Maharishi inlcuded, really knows what they are talking
about. He, like the rest of us, grew up with a worldview, was steeped
in one far diffeerent than the rest of us, and then came forth to
bring his worldview into ours. Like most business-entrprenreneur types
he could have been successful or not and he made the best use of his
contacts and particuarly the era of the late 60s without which, we may
still be practicing (to my delight) TM for 20 minutes twice per day
instead of the no change in lifestyle or belief total change in
lifestyle and belief being propagated.

Who is to say from the outside what actions are for the benefit of
individuals or the whole of mankind. We certainly have our
generationally conditioned beliefs that seem pretty deeply ingrained
in universal collective consciousness. 

However, in the overall span of time, our era is but a small blip on
the screen and I am no longer willing to give someone such as
Maharishi the benefit of the doubt. At this point I can listen and
discern for myself and my life of experience  whether someone's
actions/teachings are just another plug for a self-serving
self-aggrandizing technique-system-fundraising scheme, etc.









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[FairfieldLife] INterview- Rasa and SwamiJi- editorial removed

2005-10-10 Thread sidha7001
ubject: Next part of the Non-dual vrs. Dual saga of Rasa  
Swami-G   gangak000 


Love and Blessings Sat*Chit*Anand Shanti-Shanti-Shanti OM


G: other planes fall away ..

(Editor: But the physical plane has not fallen away to you. That
is what I am trying to say. Why do you restrict your
communication, your conversations, only with those who have
bodies?)

G: really am i communicating with a body ? do you know what
has fallen away here and what has not ? do you know what
takes place in this consciousness ? the answer is no - no - and
again no .. the physical plane is neither real nor unreal it is
the substance of dreams . Consciousness is not limited to
bodies .. the fact that you distinguish it is and are stuck in
planes and divisions belays your words about having traversed
the dual realms .. re-read the following passage about
 physical and material are the illusions of separation .


* In other words, the same thing shallow people do.

G: that is your judgementalism . until This consciousness
has been entered don't be so quick to make such
shallow pronouncements. shallow is that which
fears facing their own pain 

(Editor: I have a strong suspicion that one who has the Divine
Stigmata knows what pain is!)

G: show the stigmata .. where is it ? those of the stigmata
have wounds that are apparent . so you know pain .. is it
being enjoyed ? it is driving your life . the pain of Rasa . it
has become a part of your identity  it drives this Woman is
*god* ideation ... this comes out of a pain that has not been
resolved .. Christ came to free mankind He did not come to
enslave them ..


G: in facing it one dives deep into the waters of no mans land
.. the bondages are cut .. then the Unknown and
Unknowable is entered ... Reality shifts - the world one was
engaging falls away and GOD appears as not something
separate but rather the ONLY Reality -- it IS -- the world
is only an echo .. a by-product of it's nature .. Shakti is the
infinite changing transient which can be played in endlessly ..
it can be either Liberating or can bring greater delusion  most
are in the delusion stage .

* Shallow people, people of the world and flesh, are
concerned only with the physical/material. They know
nothing of the other side of the veil, or spiritual matters.

G: really ? there are a lot of shallow people that use *spiritual*
matters as a way of escape . as a way to cover over and run
away from the very suffering that may hold a key to final liberation
.. yes it is very very enticing to chase after psychic things . to
attempt to go to other realms etc... but what candle does any of
this hold compared to Resting in that Divine Essence and
Absolute which is Peace and the True Pearl of Great Price . ?
Where is the restless need of chasing realms or others then ?

(Editor: What are we talking about here? Do visions of Reality,
Truth and God Face to Face as seen by saints and mystics
represent negative things to Swami? Was Bl. Mary of Piazza
less than perfect? St. Dominic, St. Anthony of Padua, St. Francis,
St. Gertrude the Great, St. Catherine of Sienna, and many more,
all great visionaries, were in a lower state? Books are filled with
their visions, locutions and communications beyond the
veilthis did not limit them...they were One with God...these
visions were what they shared with Humanity!)

G: right they were one *With* God ... still within a dual
experience .. hindu saints also have had numerous of
these visions of God ... in fact here is what was the experience
of Poonjaji .. since a young boy he would see and play with
Krishna . when he went to see Sri Ramana  Ramana was
not impressed .. his answer to this was since Krishna comes
and goes it is not the Unchanging Ever Present Reality . at
this Krishna faded away and Poonjaji entered into the Non-Dual
Reality that no longer contains the limitational forms
appearances .. he entered and then Lived the Reality that
God is not the divisionary forms that come and go .. these
are aides to those who have not transcended the boundaries
and constructs of mind that keep self and other in play .. God
is ONE .. yes you can envision realms - god's - goddesses
infinitum  this is the play of mind . of Duality .. it is
endless ... but THAT which is beyond and is EVER UNBORN
blows the divisionary play out of the water .. it is no longer
needed as an aide or support ...



* By what you have said to me, you are living as they live,
communicating only with people by the physical voice, words,
letters, and so forth. There is no mental, spiritual, extraordinary
or supernatural communication going on. I do not understand
why this would be so, as every saint I have studied had
supernormal abilities. Will you say you are above all the saints I
have studied, and left them 

[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-10 Thread Ron F
Note: forwarded message attached.




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---BeginMessage---




Subject: Next part of the Non-dual vrs. Dual saga of Rasa  
Swami-G  gangak000 


Love and Blessings Sat*Chit*Anand Shanti-Shanti-Shanti OM


G: other planes fall away ..

(Editor: But the physical plane has not fallen away to you. That
is what I am trying to say. Why do you restrict your
communication, your conversations, only with those who have
bodies?)

G: really am i communicating with a body ? do you know what
has fallen away here and what has not ? do you know what
takes place in this consciousness ? the answer is no - no - and
again no .. the physical plane is neither real nor unreal it is
the substance of dreams . Consciousness is not limited to
bodies .. the fact that you distinguish it is and are stuck in
planes and divisions belays your words about having traversed
the dual realms .. re-read the following passage about
 physical and material are the illusions of separation .


* In other words, the same thing shallow people do.

G: that is your judgementalism . until This consciousness
has been entered don't be so quick to make such
shallow pronouncements. shallow is that which
fears facing their own pain 

(Editor: I have a strong suspicion that one who has the Divine
Stigmata knows what pain is!)

G: show the stigmata .. where is it ? those of the stigmata
have wounds that are apparent . so you know pain .. is it
being enjoyed ? it is driving your life . the pain of Rasa . it
has become a part of your identity  it drives this Woman is
*god* ideation ... this comes out of a pain that has not been
resolved .. Christ came to free mankind He did not come to
enslave them ..


G: in facing it one dives deep into the waters of no mans land
.. the bondages are cut .. then the Unknown and
Unknowable is entered ... Reality shifts - the world one was
engaging falls away and GOD appears as not something
separate but rather the ONLY Reality -- it IS -- the world
is only an echo .. a by-product of it's nature .. Shakti is the
infinite changing transient which can be played in endlessly ..
it can be either Liberating or can bring greater delusion  most
are in the delusion stage .

* Shallow people, people of the world and flesh, are
concerned only with the physical/material. They know
nothing of the other side of the veil, or spiritual matters.

G: really ? there are a lot of shallow people that use *spiritual*
matters as a way of escape . as a way to cover over and run
away from the very suffering that may hold a key to final liberation
.. yes it is very very enticing to chase after psychic things . to
attempt to go to other realms etc... but what candle does any of
this hold compared to Resting in that Divine Essence and
Absolute which is Peace and the True Pearl of Great Price . ?
Where is the restless need of chasing realms or others then ?

(Editor: What are we talking about here? Do visions of Reality,
Truth and God Face to Face as seen by saints and mystics
represent negative things to Swami? Was Bl. Mary of Piazza
less than perfect? St. Dominic, St. Anthony of Padua, St. Francis,
St. Gertrude the Great, St. Catherine of Sienna, and many more,
all great visionaries, were in a lower state? Books are filled with
their visions, locutions and communications beyond the
veilthis did not limit them...they were One with God...these
visions were what they shared with Humanity!)

G: right they were one *With* God ... still within a dual
experience .. hindu saints also have had numerous of
these visions of God ... in fact here is what was the experience
of Poonjaji .. since a young boy he would see and play with
Krishna . when he went to see Sri Ramana  Ramana was
not impressed .. his answer to this was since Krishna comes
and goes it is not the Unchanging Ever Present Reality . at
this Krishna faded away and Poonjaji entered into the Non-Dual
Reality that no longer contains the limitational forms
appearances .. he entered and then Lived the Reality that
God 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Peter


--- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 -- snip --
  
  Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior
 is
  more a reflection of a cultural/psychological
 boundary
  of the individual than some assessment of
  enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the
 term
  enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
  such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
  behavior, period. 
  
 
 In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be
 of guidance. The
 first is that an enlightened individual (another
 oxymoron..?) always
 acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the
 three gunas,
 enlightened people act under the influence of
 sattva.
 
 Given the press conference of lately I would venture
 a guess that one
 is always true but that two is a matter of choice -
 and then perhaps
 what the times require to promote the smoothest
 evolution possible for
 the cosmically assigned area of responsibility (the
 World, in MMY's case).
 
 History has previously recorded enlightened people
 acting in manners
 that in effect made their physical bodies the focal
 point for
 collective bad karma. The Ultimate Sacrifice, I
 believe it's called
 when people who are not Self-realized passes through
 this particular
 experience. 
 
 What is it called for someone who is enlightened,
 when a ripple aware
 of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in the
 process performs a
 yagya that resounds for millenia to come?

I think you are attributing qualities and abilities to
the enlightened that just aren't there. It's more a
projection of the God archetype than anything else.



 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan's girls! Read this!

2005-10-10 Thread Peter
Linda has always been a passionate woman more leading
with her heart than her head. Very good person. I'll
always remember her from our MIU days as Linda
Blikenstaff.

--- pibssmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 not that anyone does care but first hand I can tell
 you when I moved 
 to FF in 1978,79 or 85 cant recall which time I was
 in then Kramers 
 card shop and ran into Linda Dimick. We had done a
 course together 
 in 76. I was not too friendly just said hello as we
 were really not 
 close friends or anything but she was overly
 friendly that day. 
 
 She has been a bad girl on our 6 month course
 sneaking out alot at 
 night with another gal to bar hop. She was dismissed
 from that 
 course and got back in the good graces of the
 movement by marrying 
 Dennis Ramondi.( not her reason for marriage but I
 guess it helped 
 in the end at that time) Anyway that is another
 whole story but I 
 think she was being defensive when she saw me in
 town and right away 
 offered up that info perhaps she felt I had heard
 she and Bevan were 
 together well she said  maybe you have heard about
 me and Bevan , 
 it is true. He calls me and Annie ( then a small
 child) every night 
 from around the world. 
 I never knew the meaning of this . Perhaps they were
 very close but 
 not romantic or sexual she just said they were
 linked for sure. I 
 never asked her about it again and recall at the
 time being shocked. 
 You have to remember the times this was almost 25
 years ago or so. 
 So there you go on that story so credible truth .
 What the nature of 
 their relationship I dont know and never did find
 out. She must have 
 been then separated or divorced from Dennis and not
 yet married to 
 Michael and I dont have the time line on that one.
 Our course where 
 she was the bad girl was 76 or so and I moved back
 to FF on a few 
 occasions and cant recall when that was , someone
 else might know 
 her more personally and know the time line of that.
 But she did at 
 some point between marriages have some level of a
 relationship with 
 Bevan and as only she can do she boasted about it or
 defended 
 herself ,not sure which, that day in Kramers book
 store. Even 
 thought in the years that followed we were friendly
 around town I 
 never asked her about what she said that day, as it
 seemed in the 
 past and like you say ,who cares. I recall at the
 time being rather 
 shocked at what she said and that she would bother
 to say it to me 
 we were not close.
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 bevans_celibacy 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   This is a partial list of movement women that
 H.E. Bevan Morris, 
  the 
   Minister of Enlightenment, has been romantically
  linked to.  
 Any 
   additions or corrections?  Who should we out
 next?  John 
  Hagelin? 
   Emmanuel Schiffgens?
   
   1. Rowan Barnden
   2. Penny Bell
   3. Susan Daniels
   4. Susie Dilbeck
   5. Lynda Raimondi Dimick
   6. Margie Dubois
   7. Francie Greenfield
   8. Linda Hartnett
   9. Ann Hauptman
   10. Emily Levin
   11. Wendy Mukai
   12. Barbara Ringwalt
   13. Barbara Aprusezze Robson
   14. Karen Rubin
   15. Coral Scranton
   16. Lane Todt
   17. Sue Weller
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005 Reunion

2005-10-10 Thread Peter
For all you drummers out theredid you see the
picture of Ginger's huge ride? It looks like its 24 to
27 inches with about 8 rivets in it. Yikes, that's a
sizzle cymbal!

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   http://www.cream2005.com/
  
  A clear sign of Sat Yuga.
 
 But they're British!  Can't be pollutin' your ears
 with none of that scorpion music, man.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 -- snip --
  
  Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
  more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
  of the individual than some assessment of
  enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
  enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
  such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
  behavior, period. 
  
 In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance.
 The first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) 
 always acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three 
 gunas, enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.

Even more key, it seems to me, is Krishna's
assertion, Unfathomable is the course of action.

If it's the case that we cannot know all the
ramifications of someone's behavior, as the
assertion implies, then we can't know whether a
given behavior does or does not promote evolution,
which means we cannot use behavior as a criterion
of enlightenment.

For any act, even if it appears to be thoroughly
evil, it's possible to imagine a scenario in which
the act has evolution-promoting consequences, even
if they may come to fruition way down the line (and
vice-versa, of course, for an apparently good action).

This does NOT mean that we should unquestioningly
accept the behavior of someone we assume is
enlightened in the belief that it ultimately has
to have evolutionary consequences--because we have
no way of knowing for sure if the person *is*
enlightened.

So Unfathomable is the course of action cuts
both ways: we can't tell from behavior whether
someone is enlightened, and because we can't tell,
we can't assume the behavior is ultimately going to
have evolutionary consequences.

In other words, assuming someone is enlightened
makes absolutely zero difference to how we should
regard his/her actions.  We can only evaluate
his/her behavior the same way we evaluate anybody
else's.

We can, however, keep in the back of the mind the
recognition that we *could* be wrong in our
evaluation.  We just have no way of knowing.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  -- snip --
   
   Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
   more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
   of the individual than some assessment of
   enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
   enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
   such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
   behavior, period. 
   
  In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance.
  The first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) 
  always acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three 
  gunas, enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.
 
 Even more key, it seems to me, is Krishna's
 assertion, Unfathomable is the course of action.
 
BIG SNIP 
 
 We can, however, keep in the back of the mind the
 recognition that we *could* be wrong in our
 evaluation.  We just have no way of knowing.


Nicely put Judy, I meant to bring up this verse in one of my posts on
this topic. Is it chapter 4, verse 17 or verse 38?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  -- snip --
   
   Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
   more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
   of the individual than some assessment of
   enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
   enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
   such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
   behavior, period. 
   
  In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance.
  The first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) 
  always acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three 
  gunas, enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.
 
 Even more key, it seems to me, is Krishna's
 assertion, Unfathomable is the course of action.
 
 If it's the case that we cannot know all the
 ramifications of someone's behavior, as the
 assertion implies, then we can't know whether a
 given behavior does or does not promote evolution,
 which means we cannot use behavior as a criterion
 of enlightenment.
 
 For any act, even if it appears to be thoroughly
 evil, it's possible to imagine a scenario in which
 the act has evolution-promoting consequences, even
 if they may come to fruition way down the line (and
 vice-versa, of course, for an apparently good action).
 
 This does NOT mean that we should unquestioningly
 accept the behavior of someone we assume is
 enlightened in the belief that it ultimately has
 to have evolutionary consequences--because we have
 no way of knowing for sure if the person *is*
 enlightened.
 
 So Unfathomable is the course of action cuts
 both ways: we can't tell from behavior whether
 someone is enlightened, and because we can't tell,
 we can't assume the behavior is ultimately going to
 have evolutionary consequences.
 
 In other words, assuming someone is enlightened
 makes absolutely zero difference to how we should
 regard his/her actions.  We can only evaluate
 his/her behavior the same way we evaluate anybody
 else's.
 
 We can, however, keep in the back of the mind the
 recognition that we *could* be wrong in our
 evaluation.  We just have no way of knowing.

Right on Judy, you know sometimes, in spite of all those thoughts 
running around in your head at random, you hit the nail right on the 
head, (but then a broken clock is right twice a day too). Gaday! Yu 
no whooo, (b!) halloween's coming where's Delia?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
snip
  Even more key, it seems to me, is Krishna's
  assertion, Unfathomable is the course of action.
  
 BIG SNIP 
  
  We can, however, keep in the back of the mind the
  recognition that we *could* be wrong in our
  evaluation.  We just have no way of knowing.
 
 Nicely put Judy, I meant to bring up this verse in one of my posts
 on this topic. Is it chapter 4, verse 17 or verse 38?

4:17--

Action, indeed, should be understood,
wrong action should also be understood,
and inaction should be understood as well.
Unfathomable is the course of action.

MMY comments, in part:

The Lord has said that knowledge of action is
necessary and yet, the course of action being
unfathomable, knowledge of it must remain
incomplete.  He therefore brings to light a
techique by which the effects of knowledge will
be gained without the necessity for gaining the
knowledgeWhat is important is the effect,
not the knowledge.






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[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-10 Thread Ron F
Note: forwarded message attached.




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---BeginMessage---




Date: Sat Aug 20, 2005  4:39 am 
Subject: Part B  gangak000 




* I think exactly like Jesus, not exactly the way you do. You say
this is a lower form of Realization! You cannot refute saying this,
you have put it in black and white. This is the threat I am fighting
- not against myself as a personality, but something bigger.
Please don't push me down to where I am not!

G: fight what you want . there has been no threat against you
. No you do not think like Christ for Christ would not make
false statments against anyone . no one can put you
anywhere .. it is only your own mind which is constricted ...



* You cannot explain away Jesus and Ramakrishna, while it
is much easier to dismiss other saints, lesser knowns, and the
living, like myself.

G: have not attempted to dismiss any saints .. if you wish to
call yourself a saint fine . go for it ...


* I am the easiest for you to dispose of. Now look at your
attitude toward my Divine Stigmata. God keep me from any sort
of ego or pride, as I speak of 'myself.' Even as I say those words,
Swami condemns me as being of a lower nature - as one is
never allowed to say, 'me' 'my,' 'I' or anything that differentiates or
separates.

G: as far as the stigmata - show it .. if it is within and not
for the world then Shut up about it . for you are using it as a
sense of pride.. if it is for the world then Show it ..


* But I am certain, Swami, that your bank account is under
YOUR name and not open to the public to draw from.

G: actually it is under the non-profits heading and no i don't
draw a salary from it . but what would a bank account have
to do with anything . again you are off on another side avenue
that has Nothing to do with anything ..


* I am sure that it is YOUR clothes that are hanging in your
closet, where others do not walk in and put on.

G: actually yes others do put them on . hahahahahaah

* And then there is YOUR apartment,

G: no --- am living at the ashram and Yes others do come
and go here .. it is open for anyone to walk in .

* YOUR car and the like. What do YOU say to that?

G: it is used to pick up guests at the airport and transporting
them wherever they need to go .

* There IS NO YOU? Shall we stop playing games here?

G: yes it would be nice if you would quit playing games ..
AGAIN RASA SEES A BODY -- SHE RELATES TO A FORM 
TAKING THE FORM TO BE THAT WHICH IS SEPARATE
this IS the mind of Duality ..

in this Consciousness there is always first and Foremost
the Stillness and Unborn Presence of Absolute - the stilled
point and from that Shakti or world comes into play dividing the
Light into lights  sounds  colors - experience . the
interaction takes place as motion --- sensation - when it ends
then again the stilled vastness is all encompassing . the
motion is Flow .. within this it is forever Not Two / Not Two

When you are tired of playing games then Stop - and Be
Still - Let it all fall away . SEE what remains .



* Will you stop condemning my spiritual state if I use
personal pronouns?

G: who has been attempting to condemn whom ?



* You have bounced me backward twice because of the
Divine Stigmata.
The first letter, you asked where is it now, what good has it done
to save the masses? (You don't believe in missionary work, so
why worry about the masses?) Today you ask me WHERE IS
IT? Stigmatists had PHYSICAL WOUNDS, and so, where are
mine?

G: yes  and you have not answered Either of those
questions .

Why is it here two questions are asked and you give no answer
. ? while you have asked and laid out charges and
questions and i have answered them all ..


* Once again, you so cruelly and awfully contradict yourself.
You say that God - who is not physical is That, and you are That.

G: yes there is the One Divine Essense of All Being 


* Then when I speak of a SPIRITUAL METAPHYSICAL
UNSEEN reality, you say it has to be physical! If you can't see it
with your eyes, it isn't 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
Peter:
Any concept of enlightened behavior is
more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
of the individual than some assessment of
enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
behavior, period.

-

Akasha:

Enlightened behavior implies perfect behavior. But its not 
dichotomous: uneveloved behavior vs. perfect behavior. There is a huge
spectrum of possible improved behaviors releative to ones own
starting point. 

The third benefit of Intro lectures is (was) improved social
behavior. It does not imply perfect behavior, but improved behavior
relative to ones starting point. Among  causitive factors -- from the
script -- are less stress and more love (compassion).  

IME less stress left me less reactive. External triggers --
essentially ego threats, such as insults, attempts to guilt-trip or
shame me, jealousies, envy, had much less power to evoke an immediate
or viseral response. I was more flexible and able to absorb a lot of
crap before responding to such. Such responses IMO are a major source
or poor social behavior -- flaring out in anger, hurt or jealousy.

On the positive front, increased happiness and love brought more
sharing of that. 

I would say that meditation has improved my behavior in the long run
and also short runs -- after meditating.  The long run could also be
attributed to maturity, education, etc. But I look to family members
and friends who did not meditate and they still appear to have
reactive behaviors and similar levels of love and compassion as 30
years ago. 

Since I believe that enlightenment is not a useful label, I hold
that enlightened behavior is also not a useful label -- ending up
with a similar conclusion as you, though via a different path.
However, I think, and have observed, that improved behavior is
quite real and a positive offshoot of sadhanas. Do you find the same,
or do you hold that sadhana have not effect on behavior?

Decreased anger, guilt, embarassment, jealousy, envy, and
reactiveness, along with increased happiness, sparkle, crativity,
love, tolerance, flexibility and compassion seem not only to be
positive correlated with sadhanas but a causitive result of such.  

If one were to postulate or articulate an ultimate state of growth and
evolution -- as some texts and authorities do -- something I don't
see much value in, but who knows -- then it seems reasonable, from
that angle, that improved behavior may also reach its pinnacle or its
trajectory: minimal (or perhaps even zero) anger, guilt, embarassment,
jealousy, and reactiveness, along with maximum happiness, sparkle,
love, tolerance, flexibility and compassion. Do you find such a
trajectory absurd?

Just a small aside. Byron Katie (in her second book) states that
enlightenment is available through her teachings. That may simply be
an indication that the term has become more diluted, further losing
much of any usefulness with the current onslought of neo-advaitan and
new-age abuse of the word and concept.  Regardless, without trying to
map her use of the word with others', for her, its at a minimum, some
state of inner light and freedom. And her techniques specifically
affect action / behaviors, inner and outer. Inner being thought
patterns and behaviors and outer being action in the world. Thus, at
least on current example comes to mind where behavior is said to be
vastly improved in enlightenment compared to non-enlightenment.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
 snip
   Even more key, it seems to me, is Krishna's
   assertion, Unfathomable is the course of action.
   
  BIG SNIP 
   
   We can, however, keep in the back of the mind the
   recognition that we *could* be wrong in our
   evaluation.  We just have no way of knowing.
  
  Nicely put Judy, I meant to bring up this verse in one of my posts
  on this topic. Is it chapter 4, verse 17 or verse 38?
 
 4:17--
 
 Action, indeed, should be understood,
 wrong action should also be understood,
 and inaction should be understood as well.
 Unfathomable is the course of action.
 
 MMY comments, in part:
 
 The Lord has said that knowledge of action is
 necessary and yet, the course of action being
 unfathomable, knowledge of it must remain
 incomplete.  

That knoweldge of action is incomplete, not totally absent, is a huge
point many appear to miss. Time and time again Unfathomable is the
course of action is trotted out to claim that we can have no
knowledge of the effects of our actions. Such nonesense.

We can have a reasonable and useful level of such knowlede. And with
various abilities refined, some may have quite a bit of on-target 
abilities. 

The point is, there is always going to be an error term, just as
statistical models all have error terms. They might explain 60% or 90%
of the fluctuations of some phenomenon, but not all of it. There are
always some unexplained influences and effects. That does not mean
that such models are useless. Quite the contrary. In a similar
fashion, humans can know some efect of acions. In some caes quite a
bit of the effect. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj

On Oct 10, 2005, at 5:00 PM, peterklutz wrote:

 In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance. The
 first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) always
 acts to promote evolution.

Precisely...and this would be enlightened *activity*...typically the  
province of karma buddhas--buddhas who act through enlightened action  
and activity. Karma buddhas and karma dakinis (the energy of  
enlightened action) are portrayed in iconography *in profile* because  
they are too busy to take the time to look straight at you, they're  
always performing some skillful activity. In the unenlightened,  
neurotic aspect the karma energy is those who paranoid and have to  
organize everything--afraid of losing track of all that's going on-- 
often frantically organizing and controlling everything. In it's  
enlightened form it becomes all-accomplishing Wisdom--and greatly  
benefits sentient beings.



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[FairfieldLife] Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
I just came across this. Know anyone or groups of people like this?



*  Orthorexia nervosa  

  o Not an official eating disorder diagnosis, but the concept
is useful. The name was coined by Steven Bratman, M.D. to describe a
pathological fixation on eating proper or pure or superior food. 

  o People with orthorexia nervosa feel superior to others who
eat improper food, which might include non-organic or junk foods and
items found in regular grocery stores, as opposed to health food stores. 

  o Orthorexics obsess over what to eat, how much to eat, how
to prepare food properly, and where to obtain pure and proper
foods. 

  o Eating the right food becomes an important ,or even the
primary, focus of life. One's worth or goodness is seen in terms of
what one does or does not eat. Personal values, relationships, career
goals, and friendships become less important than the quality and
timing of what is consumed. 

  o Perhaps related to, or a type of, obsessive-compulsive
disorder 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 10, 2005, at 5:00 PM, peterklutz wrote:
 
  In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance. The
  first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) always
  acts to promote evolution.
 
 Precisely...and this would be enlightened *activity*...typically the  
 province of karma buddhas--buddhas who act through enlightened action  
 and activity. Karma buddhas and karma dakinis (the energy of  
 enlightened action) are portrayed in iconography *in profile* because  
 they are too busy to take the time to look straight at you, they're  
 always performing some skillful activity. In the unenlightened,  
 neurotic aspect the karma energy is those who paranoid and have to  
 organize everything--afraid of losing track of all that's going on-- 
 often frantically organizing and controlling everything. In it's  
 enlightened form it becomes all-accomplishing Wisdom--and greatly  
 benefits sentient beings.


Ok, so control-freaks need not heed MMY's reported 197? comment on
loosing one's bad habits?

:-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
  Action, indeed, should be understood,
  wrong action should also be understood,
  and inaction should be understood as well.
  Unfathomable is the course of action.
  
  MMY comments, in part:
  
  The Lord has said that knowledge of action is
  necessary and yet, the course of action being
  unfathomable, knowledge of it must remain
  incomplete.  
 
 That knoweldge of action is incomplete, not totally absent, is a
 huge point many appear to miss. Time and time again Unfathomable 
 is the course of action is trotted out to claim that we can have no
 knowledge of the effects of our actions. Such nonesense.

Unquestionably nonsense.  (However, that isn't
directly relevant to the point I was making about
its being impossible to use behavior as the
criterion for enlightenment.)

 We can have a reasonable and useful level of such knowlede. And with
 various abilities refined, some may have quite a bit of on-target 
 abilities. 

If we didn't use it, we couldn't function at all.

 The point is, there is always going to be an error term, just as
 statistical models all have error terms. They might explain 60% or
 90% of the fluctuations of some phenomenon, but not all of it. 
 There are always some unexplained influences and effects. That does 
 not mean that such models are useless. Quite the contrary. In a 
 similar fashion, humans can know some efect of acions. In some caes 
 quite a bit of the effect.

I'd suggest that our knowledge of the consequences
of actions becomes less and less certain as the
ripples of an action's ramifications extend outward
from the time and place of the action.

Michael Dean Goodman (on TMNews, I think it was) once
set out a lengthy account of the potential consequences
of some simple action unfolding over time in which they
shifted from negative to positive to negative to positive,
over and over, extending centuries into the future with
no end in sight.  It's not difficult to imagine such
scenarios with any action.

This is also why the notion of support of nature is
iffy.  An event that seems to be completely positive
when it happens can have very negative consequences
down the road, and vice-versa.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
   Action, indeed, should be understood,
   wrong action should also be understood,
   and inaction should be understood as well.
   Unfathomable is the course of action.
   
   MMY comments, in part:
   
   The Lord has said that knowledge of action is
   necessary and yet, the course of action being
   unfathomable, knowledge of it must remain
   incomplete.  
  
  That knoweldge of action is incomplete, not totally absent, is a
  huge point many appear to miss. Time and time again Unfathomable 
  is the course of action is trotted out to claim that we can have no
  knowledge of the effects of our actions. Such nonesense.
 
 Unquestionably nonsense.  (However, that isn't
 directly relevant to the point I was making about
 its being impossible to use behavior as the
 criterion for enlightenment.)
 
  We can have a reasonable and useful level of such knowlede. And with
  various abilities refined, some may have quite a bit of on-target 
  abilities. 
 
 If we didn't use it, we couldn't function at all.
 
  The point is, there is always going to be an error term, just as
  statistical models all have error terms. They might explain 60% or
  90% of the fluctuations of some phenomenon, but not all of it. 
  There are always some unexplained influences and effects. That does 
  not mean that such models are useless. Quite the contrary. In a 
  similar fashion, humans can know some efect of acions. In some caes 
  quite a bit of the effect.
 
 I'd suggest that our knowledge of the consequences
 of actions becomes less and less certain as the
 ripples of an action's ramifications extend outward
 from the time and place of the action.
 
 Michael Dean Goodman (on TMNews, I think it was) once
 set out a lengthy account of the potential consequences
 of some simple action unfolding over time in which they
 shifted from negative to positive to negative to positive,
 over and over, extending centuries into the future with
 no end in sight.  It's not difficult to imagine such
 scenarios with any action.
 
 This is also why the notion of support of nature is
 iffy.  An event that seems to be completely positive
 when it happens can have very negative consequences
 down the road, and vice-versa.


I think it's a mistake to consider positive (sattvic?)
actions/events and evolutionary-promotive action to be the same, 
they are not.

Occasionally the growth of something new can happen only after
something else that stands in the way is destroyed.

If the action that at one time promotes growth is sattvic at another
turn destroys something that holds growth back, the same action -
although displaying both sattvic and tamasic qualities - always serves
to promote evolution.

Conversely, an action that on the surface appears to be sattvic might
in fact be checking progress by overextending the life-span of
something that need to go, whilst at another turn, the same action
might destroy something that should really have been given the chance
to grow.  

In both cases there is action that is sattvic then tamasic (and so
on), but only one of these actions promotes evolution.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 do you hold that sadhana have not effect on behavior?
 
 Decreased anger, guilt, embarassment, jealousy, envy, and
 reactiveness, along with increased happiness, sparkle, crativity,
 love, tolerance, flexibility and compassion seem not only to be
 positive correlated with sadhanas but a causitive result of such.  
 

I agree with you that the regular practice of meditation can have the
influences mention above. Over the past 35 years I have seen people
who started TM, embraced the practice and philosophy, changed their
diets, stopped smoking, went back to school, etc. all positive things.
Years later many resumed old habits including hard core drug usage,
smoking cigarettes, and other such behaviors. Is it the majority, I
don't think so. 

However, could these behaviors change because of the idea that *now
I'm a meditator, meditator's are known to be non-reactive,
non-jealous, peaceloving, compassionate people, now that I meditate I
am all those things* and then act as if that were true? I have seen
scores of TM people revert back to previous behavior when, finally,
they could not take the strain of being such a *good* person.
Initially we were all told NOT to do anything other than practice TM
twice per day for 20 minutes, no other beliefs required. 

Many people who learned TM, due to the era we started, were already in
the Eastern get-enlightened mindset and the notion of being or
emulating a Yogi was pretty well standardized and that was our model. 
So, even with the admonition to do nothing more than meditate for 40
minutes per day, we were pretty ready to take on saintly behavior.

I know I can still get pretty angry after 30+ years of TMing, and all
the rounding I've done. I never figured this would be what life was
like after so many years and so many asanas, pranayam, and TM. I wish
I had been more natural and true to myself in the early years and
perhaps things could have turned out differently.

Peter put it so well in another post in this strand when he made
reference to people's projection of the God archetype. I think that is
what very many have done.





 If one were to postulate or articulate an ultimate state of growth and
 evolution -- as some texts and authorities do -- something I don't
 see much value in, but who knows -- then it seems reasonable, from
 that angle, that improved behavior may also reach its pinnacle or its
 trajectory: minimal (or perhaps even zero) anger, guilt, embarassment,
 jealousy, and reactiveness, along with maximum happiness, sparkle,
 love, tolerance, flexibility and compassion. Do you find such a
 trajectory absurd?
 
 Just a small aside. Byron Katie (in her second book) states that
 enlightenment is available through her teachings. That may simply be
 an indication that the term has become more diluted, further losing
 much of any usefulness with the current onslought of neo-advaitan and
 new-age abuse of the word and concept.  Regardless, without trying to
 map her use of the word with others', for her, its at a minimum, some
 state of inner light and freedom. And her techniques specifically
 affect action / behaviors, inner and outer. Inner being thought
 patterns and behaviors and outer being action in the world. Thus, at
 least on current example comes to mind where behavior is said to be
 vastly improved in enlightenment compared to non-enlightenment.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj

On Oct 10, 2005, at 7:02 PM, peterklutz wrote:

 Ok, so control-freaks need not heed MMY's reported 197? comment on
 loosing one's bad habits?

No hard and fast rule, but from this POV you transform the negative,  
neurotic dimension of existence into All-Accomplishing Wisdom.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip
Action, indeed, should be understood,
wrong action should also be understood,
and inaction should be understood as well.
Unfathomable is the course of action.

MMY comments, in part:

The Lord has said that knowledge of action is
necessary and yet, the course of action being
unfathomable, knowledge of it must remain
incomplete.  
   
   That knoweldge of action is incomplete, not totally absent, is a
   huge point many appear to miss. Time and time 
again Unfathomable 
   is the course of action is trotted out to claim that we can 
have no
   knowledge of the effects of our actions. Such nonesense.
  
  Unquestionably nonsense.  (However, that isn't
  directly relevant to the point I was making about
  its being impossible to use behavior as the
  criterion for enlightenment.)
  
   We can have a reasonable and useful level of such knowlede. And 
with
   various abilities refined, some may have quite a bit of on-
target 
   abilities. 
  
  If we didn't use it, we couldn't function at all.
  
   The point is, there is always going to be an error term, just 
as
   statistical models all have error terms. They might explain 60% 
or
   90% of the fluctuations of some phenomenon, but not all of it. 
   There are always some unexplained influences and effects. That 
does 
   not mean that such models are useless. Quite the contrary. In a 
   similar fashion, humans can know some efect of acions. In some 
caes 
   quite a bit of the effect.
  
  I'd suggest that our knowledge of the consequences
  of actions becomes less and less certain as the
  ripples of an action's ramifications extend outward
  from the time and place of the action.
  
  Michael Dean Goodman (on TMNews, I think it was) once
  set out a lengthy account of the potential consequences
  of some simple action unfolding over time in which they
  shifted from negative to positive to negative to positive,
  over and over, extending centuries into the future with
  no end in sight.  It's not difficult to imagine such
  scenarios with any action.
  
  This is also why the notion of support of nature is
  iffy.  An event that seems to be completely positive
  when it happens can have very negative consequences
  down the road, and vice-versa.
 
 
 I think it's a mistake to consider positive (sattvic?)
 actions/events and evolutionary-promotive action to be the same, 
 they are not.
 
 Occasionally the growth of something new can happen only after
 something else that stands in the way is destroyed.
 
 If the action that at one time promotes growth is sattvic at another
 turn destroys something that holds growth back, the same action -
 although displaying both sattvic and tamasic qualities - always 
serves
 to promote evolution.
 
 Conversely, an action that on the surface appears to be sattvic 
might
 in fact be checking progress by overextending the life-span of
 something that need to go, whilst at another turn, the same action
 might destroy something that should really have been given the 
chance
 to grow.  
 
 In both cases there is action that is sattvic then tamasic (and so
 on), but only one of these actions promotes evolution.

Excellent points.  And you can't second-guess.
It really leaves you without any ground to stand
on, which is probably a good thing...






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj
I always thought it was interesting that you always seem to find the  
most unhealthy looking people in health food stores. Of course maybe  
that's why they're there. But there are patterns you can easily  
observe and this quote seems to catch that. Interesting.

On Oct 10, 2005, at 7:00 PM, akasha_108 wrote:

 *  Orthorexia nervosa

   o Not an official eating disorder diagnosis, but the concept
 is useful. The name was coined by Steven Bratman, M.D. to describe a
 pathological fixation on eating proper or pure or superior food.

   o People with orthorexia nervosa feel superior to others who
 eat improper food, which might include non-organic or junk foods and
 items found in regular grocery stores, as opposed to health food  
 stores.

   o Orthorexics obsess over what to eat, how much to eat, how
 to prepare food properly, and where to obtain pure and proper
 foods.

   o Eating the right food becomes an important ,or even the
 primary, focus of life. One's worth or goodness is seen in terms of
 what one does or does not eat. Personal values, relationships, career
 goals, and friendships become less important than the quality and
 timing of what is consumed.

   o Perhaps related to, or a type of, obsessive-compulsive
 disorder



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

-- huge snip --

  I think it's a mistake to consider positive (sattvic?)
  actions/events and evolutionary-promotive action to be the same, 
  they are not.
  
  Occasionally the growth of something new can happen only after
  something else that stands in the way is destroyed.
  
  If the action that at one time promotes growth is sattvic at another
  turn destroys something that holds growth back, the same action -
  although displaying both sattvic and tamasic qualities - always 
 serves
  to promote evolution.
  
  Conversely, an action that on the surface appears to be sattvic 
 might
  in fact be checking progress by overextending the life-span of
  something that need to go, whilst at another turn, the same action
  might destroy something that should really have been given the 
 chance
  to grow.  
  
  In both cases there is action that is sattvic then tamasic (and so
  on), but only one of these actions promotes evolution.
 
 Excellent points.  And you can't second-guess.
 It really leaves you without any ground to stand
 on, which is probably a good thing...


No objections..? 

I actually posted a reply without stepping on someone's toes? 

Hmmm, maybe there is a chance I'll have a decent personality in CC!


 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108
Akasha:
  do you hold that sadhana have not effect on behavior?
  Decreased anger, guilt, embarassment, jealousy, envy, and
  reactiveness, along with increased happiness, sparkle, crativity,
  love, tolerance, flexibility and compassion seem not only to be
  positive correlated with sadhanas but a causitive result of such.  
  

Anon: 
 I agree with you that the regular practice of meditation can have
the influences mention above. Over the past 35 years I have seen
people who started TM, embraced the practice and philosophy, changed
their diets, stopped smoking, went back to school, etc. all positive
things.Years later many resumed old habits including hard core drug
usage, smoking cigarettes, and other such behaviors. Is it the
majority, I  don't think so. 
 
 However, could these behaviors change because of the idea that *now
 I'm a meditator, meditator's are known to be non-reactive,
 non-jealous, peaceloving, compassionate people, now that I meditate 


Ak:

I am quite familiar with the being an example effect on behavior --
both seeing it and living it.  But IME, such changes are superficial.
The changes I was touching on are deeper, more substantial. 
However, I agree there can be a snapback effect when one stops being a
teacher and is released from the need of being ut a teacher. Or peer
/ social links with TMO folks diminish somewhat (or such peers become
less TMOish, and thus good behavior within bounds acceptable to
peers). And this can lead to adoption of old behaviors which are not
affected by the sadhana-effect. But I think the latter still has a
substantial effect on its own. Thats my experience at least. 

Anon: 
 Many people who learned TM, due to the era we started, were already
in the Eastern get-enlightened mindset and the notion of being or
emulating a Yogi was pretty well standardized and that was our model. 
So, even with the admonition to do nothing more than meditate for 40
minutes per day, we were pretty ready to take on saintly behavior.

Ak:
I think that the emulation, at least on the lower level of parroting
and imitating specific behaviors -- if not quirks --  of TMO role
models diminishes as one grows up -- from teens or early 20's to
late 30s +.  So there are at least five effects: i) sadhana, ii)
feeling the need to be an example of TM benefits, iii) imitating TMO
role models, iv) natural maturity, v) snapback effects. I think the
first can be substantially distinguished from the others.
 
Anon:
 Peter put it so well in another post in this thread when he made
 reference to people's projection of the God archetype. I think that
is what very many have done.

AK:
IMO,improved behavior resulting from sadhana is a  reality -- at least
for many. This is easily distinguished from some theoretical model /
baggage some carry with them regarding the attributes of ideal
behavior. To state that there is no pinnacle of ideal human behavior
  is a POV -- maybe true maybe not, but pretty irrelevant. The
practical issue is whether sadhana / self-help / mentorships etc. can
improve behavior over prior states.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding the virus

2005-10-10 Thread uns_tressor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/10/05 1:08 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  on 10/10/05 12:52 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When he changes his registration, he should tell
  Yahoo exactly what happened, send them the number
  of the post.  Maybe they can figure out where it
  came from.
  
  What email does one use to do that?
  
  Go to the Groups Home page, click on Help, look
  for information about how to report abuse.
 
 Did it.

And attachments are banned, aren't they?
They should be. In fact, if there is a 
mechanism to report any attempt to present
a .pif file, then it should be set.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-10 Thread akasha_108


Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I always thought it was interesting that you always seem to find the  
 most unhealthy looking people in health food stores. Of course maybe  
 that's why they're there. But there are patterns you can easily  
 observe and this quote seems to catch that. Interesting.

The summary / description seemed to me to describe a lot of TMO folks
--very fixated on diet, and feeling superior to, or at least
highly distinguished rom others who are not so satvic. 

Regarding health food stores, maybe its a geographic thing, but on the
west coast many health food stores are supermarket sized and pretty
mainstream -- not the small mom and pop hippie stores of yesteryear.
And, IME, have many quite vibrant looking people in them. I find less
healthy looking people (not all) at WalMart and Costco. And regular
supermarkets have more health food products than health food stores
of the past -- organic milk, vegetables, whole grains, bulk staples,
good salad bars, fresh bakeries, tofu, etc.








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[FairfieldLife] Plato's Twin flames

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz

Any comments on this by MMY other authoritative sources?

 -- EXCERPT FROM PLATO'S SYMPOSIUM --

After the division the two parts of man, each desiring his other half,
came together, and throwing their arms about one another, entwined in
mutual embraces, longing to grow into one, they were on the point of
dying from hunger and self-neglect, because they did not like to do
anything apart; and when one of the halves died and the other
survived, the survivor sought another mate, man or woman as we call
them, being the sections of entire men or women, and clung to that
[...] And when one of them meets with his other half, the actual half
of himself, whether he be a lover of youth or a lover of another sort,
the pair are lost in an amazement of love and friendship and intimacy,
and would not be out of the other's sight, as I may say, even for a
moment: these are the people who pass their whole lives together; yet
they could not explain what they desire of one another. For the
intense yearning which each of them has towards the other does not
appear to be the desire of lover's intercourse, but of something else
which the soul of either evidently desires and cannot tell, and of
which she has only a dark and doubtful presentiment. Suppose
Hephaestus, with his instruments, to come to the pair who are lying
side, by side and to say to them, What do you people want of one
another? they would be unable to explain. And suppose further, that
when he saw their perplexity he said: Do you desire to be wholly one;
always day and night to be in one another's company? for if this is
what you desire, I am ready to melt you into one and let you grow
together, so that being two you shall become one, and while you live a
common life as if you were a single man, and after your death in the
world below still be one departed soul instead of two-I ask whether
this is what you lovingly desire, and whether you are satisfied to
attain this?-there is not a man of them who when he heard the
proposal would deny or would not acknowledge that this meeting and
melting into one another, this becoming one instead of two, was the
very expression of his ancient need. And the reason is that human
nature was originally one and we were a whole, and the desire and
pursuit of the whole is called love. There was a time, I say, when we
were one, but now because of the wickedness of mankind God has
dispersed us, as the Arcadians were dispersed into villages by the
Lacedaemonians. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
2 snips:
From: anonymousff

FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
with us.
This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
Emperor's new new clothes.

Tom T:
As a nation addicted to power and cheap oil we have the best leader we
could ever want. Bush the addict is leading us down the slippery slope
to the bottom that all addicts eventually find as the only way out.
Who else to lead us all there but the epitome of the dangerous addict
who will do anything he has to do to maintain his source. All addicts
protect their source and the ability to satisfy the craving. Old Bushy
here is in the same mode. Just watch him, clever and lying like hell
to keep the whole deal rolling forward. We are along for the ride.
Hope we all learn something and that it doesn't have to be total
bottom for all of us. Tom

COMMENT:
Both Bush and Maharishi display certain characteristics
of manipulative masterminds. We can only feel sorry for 
those poor victims who have hitched their wagons to these
(sic) glorious leader type personalities.  These types are
frequently found in leadership roles in businesses such as 
Enron, etc.  Psychologists would probably label this
personality type as the Big Thinker type.
The Big Thinker goes through life inspiring and
motivating others, but at the same time, wreaking havoc
chaos, destruction and even death on those who have been
unfortunate enough to join the team.

IMO, similar characteristics shared by both Bush 
and Maharishi include:

1.  An intention to grasp and utilise the the resources of others
for their own ends and glorification - it may be  
YOUR time and/or YOUR assets, and/or YOUR future.

2.  Persistently living in a fantasy world which has no
relation whatsoever to the real world.

3.  They are moral purists who demand a perfect world
and they resent and rebel if it doesn't meet their
self-defeatingly high standards.

4.  The ability to project and to blame others, while at
the same time cunningly avoiding responsibility for 
one's own failings and mistakes.  Natural consequences
and reality feedback are anathema to them.
They are compulsively responsibility avoident.

5.  They place insatiable demands and expections on others.
Everyone around them is subject to endless intrusion  
and manipulation.  They also want a discount on everything,
and they haggle constantly.

6.  They define eveything on their own terms, and
they demand to make and change all the rules of 
any system or situation at whim.  They are totally
into arbitraty control.

7.  They are always dreaming the impossible dream and
then acting on it as if it were reality.  They are
scheme in the sky grandiose, and they live in a 
dream world of stated intentions, promises, and
fantasies.  They are all ego, self-aggrandising,
expoitative, and super-status and recognition
conscious. 

8.  They are intensely concerned with looking good
and they use their pseudo perfectionism to go after
illusory statusful goals, seeking always to be 
seen with the right people.

9.  They use approval witholding, mild disapproval,
and selective approval-bestowing as extremely
effective manipulation control tactics.

10. They are notoriously charming and charismatic,
and they are able to charm the pants off everyone
to get their own way.

11.  They have a huge reservoir of rage that is
 sugar coated in a smiling vengeance trip that
 will be activated by your attempts to bring some
 sense to the situation, often disguised in
 new age or spiritual rationalizations and concepts.

12.  They often remain totally incommunicado and
 uncontactable.

13.  They are experts at re-framing realities in
 a way that is all but unassailable.  In short,
 they are brilliant bullshit manipulation-masters.


The way to burst the bubble of this type of delusional
personality is to STOP CO-OPERATING WITH THEM.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj

On Oct 10, 2005, at 8:33 PM, akasha_108 wrote:

 The summary / description seemed to me to describe a lot of TMO folks
 --very fixated on diet, and feeling superior to, or at least
 highly distinguished rom others who are not so satvic.


Oh yeah--and other mass meditation and not so mass meditation movements.



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[FairfieldLife] Cream 2005

2005-10-10 Thread jonesmak45
We were at the Tuesday night performance at RAH  and it was 
fntastic!  We couldn't believe we were actually sitting there 
taking it all in...had great seats 20th row from the stage, but then 
every seat is good since it only holds 5,000.  They sounded so great 
and to be with 5,000 others on the same groove.well, you know!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
snip
   In both cases there is action that is sattvic then tamasic (and 
   so on), but only one of these actions promotes evolution.
  
  Excellent points.  And you can't second-guess.
  It really leaves you without any ground to stand
  on, which is probably a good thing...
 
 No objections..? 
 
 I actually posted a reply without stepping on someone's toes?

Well, certainly not mine! 

 Hmmm, maybe there is a chance I'll have a decent personality in CC!

Are you telling us you now have an indecent one?  ;-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread peterklutz

I find your points to be quite off the mark and restrict my critique
to the simple observation that almost all of the points credit Bush 
jr with being far more than he is.

manipulative masterminds  glorious leader type personalities:
Bush is neither glorious nor a leader type, he defaulted into his
current position as Team Cheney's errand boy by having a father that
was once president  

experts at re-framing realities in a way that is all but
unassailable: try Bush's speech writers - the man himself is barely
able to read off a cue card.

'moral purists who demand a perfect world': if Bush jr comes
across like this today, it's only because someone told him to say
this. It's not the man


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 2 snips:
 From: anonymousff
 
 FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
 Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
 habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
 because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
 with us.
 This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
 all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
 saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
 of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
 Emperor's new new clothes.
 
 Tom T:
 As a nation addicted to power and cheap oil we have the best leader we
 could ever want. Bush the addict is leading us down the slippery slope
 to the bottom that all addicts eventually find as the only way out.
 Who else to lead us all there but the epitome of the dangerous addict
 who will do anything he has to do to maintain his source. All addicts
 protect their source and the ability to satisfy the craving. Old Bushy
 here is in the same mode. Just watch him, clever and lying like hell
 to keep the whole deal rolling forward. We are along for the ride.
 Hope we all learn something and that it doesn't have to be total
 bottom for all of us. Tom
 
 COMMENT:  
 Both Bush and Maharishi display certain characteristics
 of manipulative masterminds. We can only feel sorry for 
 those poor victims who have hitched their wagons to these
 (sic) glorious leader type personalities.  These types are
 frequently found in leadership roles in businesses such as 
 Enron, etc.  Psychologists would probably label this
 personality type as the Big Thinker type.
 The Big Thinker goes through life inspiring and
 motivating others, but at the same time, wreaking havoc
 chaos, destruction and even death on those who have been
 unfortunate enough to join the team.
 
 IMO, similar characteristics shared by both Bush 
 and Maharishi include:
 
 1.  An intention to grasp and utilise the the resources of others
 for their own ends and glorification - it may be  
 YOUR time and/or YOUR assets, and/or YOUR future.
 
 2.  Persistently living in a fantasy world which has no
 relation whatsoever to the real world.
 
 3.  They are moral purists who demand a perfect world
 and they resent and rebel if it doesn't meet their
 self-defeatingly high standards.
 
 4.  The ability to project and to blame others, while at
 the same time cunningly avoiding responsibility for 
 one's own failings and mistakes.  Natural consequences
 and reality feedback are anathema to them.
 They are compulsively responsibility avoident.
 
 5.  They place insatiable demands and expections on others.
 Everyone around them is subject to endless intrusion  
 and manipulation.  They also want a discount on everything,
 and they haggle constantly.
 
 6.  They define eveything on their own terms, and
 they demand to make and change all the rules of 
 any system or situation at whim.  They are totally
 into arbitraty control.
 
 7.  They are always dreaming the impossible dream and
 then acting on it as if it were reality.  They are
 scheme in the sky grandiose, and they live in a 
 dream world of stated intentions, promises, and
 fantasies.  They are all ego, self-aggrandising,
 expoitative, and super-status and recognition
 conscious. 
 
 8.  They are intensely concerned with looking good
 and they use their pseudo perfectionism to go after
 illusory statusful goals, seeking always to be 
 seen with the right people.
 
 9.  They use approval witholding, mild disapproval,
 and selective approval-bestowing as extremely
 effective manipulation control tactics.
 
 10. They are notoriously charming and charismatic,
 and they are able to charm the pants off everyone
 to get their own way.
 
 11.  They have a huge reservoir of rage that is
  sugar coated in a smiling vengeance trip that
  will be activated by your attempts to bring some
  sense to the situation, often disguised in
  new age or spiritual rationalizations and concepts.
 
 12.  They often remain 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
Peterklutz wrote:
 What is it called for someone who is enlightened,
 when a ripple aware of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in
the process performs a yagya that resounds for millenia to come?

Peter writes:
I think you are attributing qualities and abilities to
the enlightened that just aren't there. It's more a
projection of the God archetype than anything else.

Tom T:
From the Shiva Sutras third awakening. Recently MMY was quoted on a
Tape on campus as saying the Shiva Sutras are the experiences of the
Enlightened.

Shiva sutras,snipped
24. When a yogi, after developing awareness of God Consciousness,
transcends the state of Turiya, he enters into Transcendental God
Consciousness.

25. Such a yogi becomes one with Shiva.

26. For him the austerity is nothing else than the normal routine of
physical life.

27. And for such a yogi the daily routine talk becomes the recitation
of real mantra.

28. Such a yogi gives as alms to humanity his own knowledge of the Self.

29. The yogi, who commands the entire wheel of cognitive and active
organs, is the only means of attaining knowledge of Transcendental God
Consciousness.

30. For him the whole universe is the totality of his own energies.

31. Living in this world of ignorance or remaining in the
Transcendental God Consciousness is the totality of one's own energies
of consciousness.

32. Such a yogi, though apparently engrossed in the daily routine of
life, is in no way separated from God Consciousness.

33. Because such a yogi perceives the states of pain and pleasure only
super-ficially, they, in no case, affect his state of
Sureme-Being-Consciousness.

34. Hence he is liberated from the states of pain and pleasure and is
uniquely established in his own nature.

35. On the contrary, the one who feels the absence of God
Consciousness in the states of pain and pleasure, is an individual
soul and a victim of recurring births and deaths.

36. The one who stands aloof from differentiatedness becomes the
creator and destroyer of the entire universe.

37. The energy of creating and destroying the whole universe comes
within the experience of such a yogi just as an ordinary soul
possesses the power to create and destroy during his dreaming state.

38. The state of Turiya God Consciousness, that comes into experience
in the beginning and at the end of the other three states (waking,
dreaming, and deep sleep), should be infused and transmitted into
these three states by firmly establishing one's own awareness during
these intervals - beginning and end thereof.

39. And by developing such a process, a yogi must transmit the God
Consciousness not only into the three states of individuality but into
the entire universe.

40. By the slight appearance of individual desire, one is carried far
away from the state of God Consciousness.

41. By firmly establishing one's own Self in the state of Turiya, all
desires disappear and individuality is lost into universality.

42. Such a yogi is liberated in life and as his body still exists, his
is called bhuta-kanchuki - having his physical body as a mere covering
just like an ordinary blanket. Hence he is supreme and one with the
universal Self.

43. After remaining in this state of universal Transcendental God
Consciousness, the functions of inhalation and exhalation
automatically take place with the object that this whole universe of
action and cognition is united in God Consciousness.

44. When one contemplates on the center of Universal Consciousness,
what else remains there to be sought in the practice of prana, apana,
and sushumna?

45. When a Shiva-yogi is completely established in God Consciousness,
he experiences this state spontaneously within and without or both.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread anonymousff
Peter wrote:
I find your points to be quite off the mark and restrict my critique
to the simple observation that almost all of the points credit Bush
jr with being far more than he is.

Thank you for your comments.  I agree, I have 
probably credited Bush with more than he deserves.
However, we are dealing here with 2
charismatic personalities with their fingers
firmly on the purse strings.  Bush's days
hopefully are numbered.
IMO, those who want to jump through hoops 
to fulfil MMY's next wild fantasy should at least
be aware that certain personality types do exist,
enlightened or not.  They may warrant a little
closer examination. If one is prepared to be honest.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-10 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/10/05 7:08 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I always thought it was interesting that you always seem to find the
 most unhealthy looking people in health food stores. Of course maybe
 that's why they're there. But there are patterns you can easily
 observe and this quote seems to catch that. Interesting.
 
Even a sick man can open a health food store. - MMY

Reference to the fact that an unenlightened TM teacher can lead others to
enlightenment.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Rasa angry: IS SWAMI G SUPERIOR TO JESUS CHRIST AND RAMAKRISHNA

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB

No matter where you go, there you are.
- Buckaroo Banzai

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 IS SWAMI G SUPERIOR TO JESUS CHRIST AND 
 RAMAKRISHNA?
 
 From www.womanthouartgod.com - Rasa Von Werder
 August 19, 2005
 
 Swami G may be found at Guru_Satsang@
 
 Dear Swami G,
 
 Peace be with you
 
 And with you -
 
 * Here is what is going on now. You did not like the force of my
 arguments in favor of souls who have a discipline other than 
 yours, an
 attainment I claim is comparable to yours, (most notably 
 Christians) and since
 you cannot answer my statements, you are attacking me ad 
 hominem; which means
 'to the person, appealing to personal interests, prejudice and 
 emotions rather
 than to reason.'
 
 G: no one is *attacking* you . didn't know there was supposed 
 to be
 an argument in place ... i HAVE answered every one of your 
 questions ..
 this was not done in order to have you come back with an 
 argument ... it
 was done because you asked about my path  if you wanted to 
 make it about
 some debate i would have declined .
 
 
 * In this place, the argument ceases. It is not longer according to 
 the
 rules of fair play.
 
 G: fair play would have been that you had been honest in your 
 intent in the
 first place. do you think it is fair play to come to my 
site and 
 post
 the above heading *IS SWAMI-G SUPERIOR TO JESUS CHRIST 
 AND RAMA KRISHNA* ?
 You go to sites
 act as if you are the one being persecuted and then proceed to 
 ask questions
 under False pretenses of simply seeking to know about 
 anothers path . then
 twist things to suit your ends  this has nothing to do with 
being 
 honest
 .
 
 
 * Although, I must add, you are continuing the discussion today, 
 and
 perhaps there is hope.
 
 G: the lines have been open here . but if your intent is to
 continue in the sarcastic bent you can go down the road 
 in giving you honest answers have tried to Broaden your scope 
 of knowledge and
 to have an open dialog ... but since answers given as to my 
 path and
 consciousness have been taken as some type of put down 
 toward you, and have
 been seen as offensive you have come back time and time 
 again with the sarcastic
 commentarys totally off the topic at hand  the topic was your 
 asking
 about my path and NOT a dialog about past saints etc  you 
 turned it into
 some argument about east versus west .
 
 
 * I am not surprized that you have taken this stance. Why should I 
 be?
 
 G: because it is what you do . when lines are open you have a 
 way of
 finding something to argue about .. going on the defensive 
 time and time
 again . isn't it about time to ask why you keep getting 
yourself 
 into
 these positions .. and no i am not threatened by you .. but 
 neither will
 your twisting things be put up with for long .
 
 * You are a human being, your claims to the contrary.
 
 G: really so what is the claim to the contrary ?
 
 * Shall I tell you why I refrained from writing your article at 
first?
 After listening to the tape of our conversation several times, I
 despaired at the claims you made. A friend of mine told me how 
 you had suffered
 from attacks (although you say you don't suffer!)
 
 G: what was said there still holds true . there is NO Suffering 
 here
 . there was suffering in the past ... it ENDED 
 
 * and I did not want you to go through the same thing. I know how 
 vile
 people get on the internet, as I have been the subject of many 
 tirades,
 including those of your associate Rev. Jeff. I felt that if I wrote 
the
 interview exactly as you spoke it, you would be subject to ridicule 
 and scorn.
 You would become a laughing stock. After turning it over and 
 over in my mind, I
 told a friend,
 I cannot write this interview. People would laugh at Swami G.
 
 G: so let them laugh  it is the Truth 
 
 * She would be subject to ridicule, and she has already been 
 through
 that. I cannot subject her to this again. I don't write articles 
like 
 that.'
 
 G: again what was said in the interview is the way that it is 
 if people can understand it then fine  if not then 
fine .
 i am not here to please the world . there are some that Will 
 understand it
 . and many that don't ..
 
 
 * What was wrong with the interview? The same thing that came 
 up again,
 now written in a slightly milder way - and it comes up again and
 again. That is, that you are the only person who has the Truth, 
 and no one else
 has it but this one guy in Los Angeles, and everyone else is 
 beneath you!
 
 G: you are the one that is saying that i have NEVER said that ...
 WHERE DO YOU KEEP GETTING THIS FROM ?
 There are Many Realized Beings that have the Truth. There 
 have been
 throughout the centuries ..
 
 
 * You do not say Jesus Christ is beneath you, but there
 is a feeling you think so, because 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 -- snip --
  
  Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior is
  more a reflection of a cultural/psychological boundary
  of the individual than some assessment of
  enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the term
  enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
  such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
  behavior, period. 
 
 In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be of guidance. 
The
 first is that an enlightened individual (another oxymoron..?) always
 acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the three gunas,
 enlightened people act under the influence of sattva.
 
 Given the press conference of lately I would venture a guess that 
one
 is always true but that two is a matter of choice - and then perhaps
 what the times require to promote the smoothest evolution possible 
for
 the cosmically assigned area of responsibility (the World, in MMY's 
case).
 
 History has previously recorded enlightened people acting in manners
 that in effect made their physical bodies the focal point for
 collective bad karma. The Ultimate Sacrifice, I believe it's called
 when people who are not Self-realized passes through this particular
 experience. 
 
 What is it called for someone who is enlightened, when a ripple 
 aware of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in the process 
 performs a yagya that resounds for millenia to come?

I'm not sure what the Sanskrit term is, but in
English I think that the word you're searching
for is 'megalomania.'







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   --- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  -- snip --
   
   Nicely put. Any concept of enlightened behavior
  is
   more a reflection of a cultural/psychological
  boundary
   of the individual than some assessment of
   enlightenment. By the way, I just realized, the
  term
   enlightened behavior is an oxymoron. There is no
   such thing as enlightened behavior. There's just
   behavior, period. 
   
  
  In the BG MMY says at least two things that might be
  of guidance. The
  first is that an enlightened individual (another
  oxymoron..?) always
  acts to promote evolution. The second is that of the
  three gunas,
  enlightened people act under the influence of
  sattva.
  
  Given the press conference of lately I would venture
  a guess that one
  is always true but that two is a matter of choice -
  and then perhaps
  what the times require to promote the smoothest
  evolution possible for
  the cosmically assigned area of responsibility (the
  World, in MMY's case).
  
  History has previously recorded enlightened people
  acting in manners
  that in effect made their physical bodies the focal
  point for
  collective bad karma. The Ultimate Sacrifice, I
  believe it's called
  when people who are not Self-realized passes through
  this particular
  experience. 
  
  What is it called for someone who is enlightened,
  when a ripple aware
  of it's status as the Ocean levels out and in the
  process performs a
  yagya that resounds for millenia to come?
 
 I think you are attributing qualities and abilities to
 the enlightened that just aren't there. It's more a
 projection of the God archetype than anything else.

That's what I meant by my 'megalomania' quip,
just fleshed out.  The enlightened just act,
in the same way that any other sentient being
acts.  Their actions have the same effect as
those of any other sentient being.  But some
people, for their own reasons, seem to want
the actions of the enlightened to be more
powerful, more far-reaching, more special.

The megalomania -- the belief that one is the
center of the whirlwind, the cause to the world's
effect -- does not always even start with the
person on whom it is projected.  It starts with
those who project it.  I suspect Christ is a 
good example of this.  He was probably a pretty
cool dude, just doing his thing, teaching those
who showed up and had ears to hear.  Then he
dies, and those who showed up -- in an attempt
to make THEMSELVES more important and special --
turn him into the saviour of the world.

One teacher I knew said everything there is to
say about being a spiritual teacher (IMO, of
course) in four lines:

I am not important.
Today I am here
And tomorrow I will be gone.
I am not important.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-10 Thread TurquoiseB
Re my rap earlier about megalomania, and about the 
need/desire to be special, isn't that what this
whole conversation is about?  This fellow (I can
only assume it's a 'he') wants to be considered
special because he has some kind of stigmata.
Swami G (who I assume is Gangaji) keeps trying to
remind him that liberation is achieved by NOT
being special.  He freaks out, but keeps coming
back for more, because in some weird way, his being
knows that its specialness is not making him
happy.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 * I think exactly like Jesus, not exactly the way you do. You say
 this is a lower form of Realization! You cannot refute saying this,
 you have put it in black and white. This is the threat I am fighting
 - not against myself as a personality, but something bigger.
 Please don't push me down to where I am not!
 
 G: fight what you want . there has been no threat against you
 . No you do not think like Christ for Christ would not make
 false statments against anyone . no one can put you
 anywhere .. it is only your own mind which is constricted ...
 
 
 
 * You cannot explain away Jesus and Ramakrishna, while it
 is much easier to dismiss other saints, lesser knowns, and the
 living, like myself.
 
 G: have not attempted to dismiss any saints .. if you wish to
 call yourself a saint fine . go for it ...
 
 
 * I am the easiest for you to dispose of. Now look at your
 attitude toward my Divine Stigmata. God keep me from any sort
 of ego or pride, as I speak of 'myself.' Even as I say those words,
 Swami condemns me as being of a lower nature - as one is
 never allowed to say, 'me' 'my,' 'I' or anything that 
differentiates or
 separates.
 
 G: as far as the stigmata - show it .. if it is within and 
not
 for the world then Shut up about it . for you are using it 
as a
 sense of pride.. if it is for the world then Show it ..
 
 
 * But I am certain, Swami, that your bank account is under
 YOUR name and not open to the public to draw from.
 
 G: actually it is under the non-profits heading and no i don't
 draw a salary from it . but what would a bank account have
 to do with anything . again you are off on another side avenue
 that has Nothing to do with anything ..
 
 
 * I am sure that it is YOUR clothes that are hanging in your
 closet, where others do not walk in and put on.
 
 G: actually yes others do put them on . hahahahahaah
 
 * And then there is YOUR apartment,
 
 G: no --- am living at the ashram and Yes others do come
 and go here .. it is open for anyone to walk in .
 
 * YOUR car and the like. What do YOU say to that?
 
 G: it is used to pick up guests at the airport and transporting
 them wherever they need to go .
 
 * There IS NO YOU? Shall we stop playing games here?
 
 G: yes it would be nice if you would quit playing games ..
 AGAIN RASA SEES A BODY -- SHE RELATES TO A FORM 
 TAKING THE FORM TO BE THAT WHICH IS SEPARATE
 this IS the mind of Duality ..
 
 in this Consciousness there is always first and Foremost
 the Stillness and Unborn Presence of Absolute - the stilled
 point and from that Shakti or world comes into play dividing the
 Light into lights  sounds  colors - experience . the
 interaction takes place as motion --- sensation - when it ends
 then again the stilled vastness is all encompassing . the
 motion is Flow .. within this it is forever Not Two / Not 
Two
 
 When you are tired of playing games then Stop - and Be
 Still - Let it all fall away . SEE what remains .
 
 
 
 * Will you stop condemning my spiritual state if I use
 personal pronouns?
 
 G: who has been attempting to condemn whom ?
 
 
 
 * You have bounced me backward twice because of the
 Divine Stigmata.
 The first letter, you asked where is it now, what good has it done
 to save the masses? (You don't believe in missionary work, so
 why worry about the masses?) Today you ask me WHERE IS
 IT? Stigmatists had PHYSICAL WOUNDS, and so, where are
 mine?
 
 G: yes  and you have not answered Either of those
 questions .
 
 Why is it here two questions are asked and you give no answer
 . ? while you have asked and laid out charges and
 questions and i have answered them all ..
 
 
 * Once again, you so cruelly and awfully contradict yourself.
 You say that God - who is not physical is That, and you are That.
 
 G: yes there is the One Divine Essense of All Being 
 
 
 * Then when I speak of a SPIRITUAL METAPHYSICAL
 UNSEEN reality, you say it has to be physical! If you can't see it
 with your eyes, it isn't there! If it isn't bleeding, it's not real!
 
 G: you are the one speaking of Duality  Stigmata is within
 Duality . those who have claimed Stigmata have had the
 Marks to show ---
 
 
 * Here shows up a flaw in your knowledge of mystical
 theology, (let us make a point here.