[FairfieldLife] Re: Harriet and George

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 She's in love with him. It's obvious. She says he's the most 
 brilliant man she's ever met. Seen those letters? You're the 
 greatest governor ever? So, what does it all mean? It means that 
 Justice Miers, if such she becomes, will never make a decison on 
 the Supreme Court that she thinks will displease Bush. 
 Never. She just won't do it. 

That's the basis on which Maharishi chooses leaders
of *his* government.  Are you suggesting it's 
not the best way to go?  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
 Margaret Cooper   MS   60
 
 Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
 the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
 while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
 with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
 thought she was 37 or so at the time.
   
 There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
 lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.

Clearly off the program.
 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This subject has had a lot of play here from time to time and I
 thought the following quotation from the book I   Reality and
 Subjectivity by David Hawkins was a very suscinct answer. Page 359
 
 Questioner: There is confusion about the state of enlightenment and
 about the individual to whom it happens or who is it that has
 become enlightened. There is a common saying that the truly
 enlightened being does not claim to be enlightened, so that anybody
 who states that they are must be in error,
 
 Answer: There is great difficulity in describing a condition that is
 not within the experiental reality of the ego, and especially in
 answering a question the asking of which stems from the dualistic
 paradigm of reality of the questioner. An enlightened being *is* their
 condition; thus, there is no purpose to make a 'claim'. That is an ego
 view. 
 
 The personal self does not become enlightened or transformed but
 instead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by a different
 condition altogether.
 

When we  discuss enlightenment the concepts we use tend to be quite
confusing, because different individuals mean different things by
those concepts. 
Based on how I understand `personal self' it doesn't go anywhere with
enlightenment. What is gone is one's identification of the `I' with an
image of one's personal self. In enlightenment the `I' becomes
identified with the transcendental source and hence it becomes very
stable in the turmoil of life.
Nothing happens directly to the personality with its strengths and
weaknesses.
On the other hand the enlightened state of the `I' makes it much
easier to work with personal issues and defects, because you can stay
calm in blissful state in the emotional whirlwind and pain that
regularly is part of a real healing. You must also have a personality
structure that is capable of self reflection and of internally
observing one's emotions and contradicting thought forms in order to
be able to do transformative inner work.
 
People can get enlightened without these inner structures. Then they
tend to think they are fully perfect as they are and also superior
beings. They desperately need their enlightenment to be seen, and
themselves to be seen as superior, because that is their personality
structure. The personal self, that cannot work with one's issues needs
all the time adulation and a feeling of power to feel good about
oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These people can create a lot
of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in getting enlightened.

I personally think nowadays that it is probably better that people
develop the inner structures mentioned above before the experience of
enlightenment.

Irmeli





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[FairfieldLife] Clouds

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
Not really relevant to anything, just some really
neat cloud photos from your neighboring state:

http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/june2004hastings-mammatus.html







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj
Interesting, no mention of the teacher.

Who's David Hawkins BTW?

On Oct 11, 2005, at 11:56 PM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote:

 This subject has had a lot of play here from time to time and I
 thought the following quotation from the book I   Reality and
 Subjectivity by David Hawkins was a very suscinct answer. Page 359

 Questioner: There is confusion about the state of enlightenment and
 about the individual to whom it happens or who is it that has
 become enlightened. There is a common saying that the truly
 enlightened being does not claim to be enlightened, so that anybody
 who states that they are must be in error,

 Answer: There is great difficulity in describing a condition that is
 not within the experiental reality of the ego, and especially in
 answering a question the asking of which stems from the dualistic
 paradigm of reality of the questioner. An enlightened being *is* their
 condition; thus, there is no purpose to make a 'claim'. That is an ego
 view.

 The personal self does not become enlightened or transformed but
 instead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by a different
 condition altogether.

 Implied in the common saying that we are discussing is the belief that
 to disclaim being enlightened is a form of modesty. This is a
 projection of the spiritual ego of the originator of such a statement
 for in the condition of enlightenment, no egotism remains. The state
 is merely a simple fact; it is not an achievment. It has no merits or
 anything which is laudatory that would require the posture of
 pseudo-humility. In the naive spiritual community, there is much
 adulation, charismatic glamour, and the importance attributed to
 'enlightened masters', and the like.These are projections. To the
 enlightened being, the state is merely the natural condition of how  
 it is.

 Tom T





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread feste37
This is a big movement. People in it die, just like everyone else. The idea 
that 
there is something mysterious about it is ridiculous, in my opinion. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
  
  I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
  initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
  other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
  mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
  really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
  for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
  near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
  clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
  statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
  interested in such a research topic??!!
  
  What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
  attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
 on FFL.
  
Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
Bobby Warren   drowning   45
Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
 
 
 A few more come to mind
 
 Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
 Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
 Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
 Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
 Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
 
 swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
 
 cc girl at MIU?
 
 the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
 
 Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
 
 I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
 day after he saw top vaida guy
 
 A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
 KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
 
 Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
 moment.







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[FairfieldLife] War Humor

2005-10-12 Thread anonymousff

Q: How many Bush Administration officials does it take to screw in a 
light bulb?
A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its conditions 
are improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are 
a delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served 
honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effect. Why do 
you hate freedom?

 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Patrick Gillam
Ed Goldfinger was felled by heart failure in the mid-90s or so. He was what, 50?

Was Ed Tarabilda in his 50s?

Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an oncoming truck between Fairfield 
and 
Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was trying to avoid by virtue of 
having been 
warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident a few weeks earlier. A 
friend of hers 
was driving during the fatal incident; they lost control when passing over an 
icy patch on 
the road.

Let's not forget young Levi Butler, a victim of homicide.

For that matter, my mother was a 10-year regular meditator who died of homicide 
at age 
57.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
  
  I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
  initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
  other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
  mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
  really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
  for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
  near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
  clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
  statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
  interested in such a research topic??!!
  
  What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
  attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
 on FFL.
  
Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
Bobby Warren   drowning   45
Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
 
 
 A few more come to mind
 
 Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
 Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
 Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
 Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
 Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
 
 swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
 
 cc girl at MIU?
 
 the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
 
 Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
 
 I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
 day after he saw top vaida guy
 
 A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
 KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
 
 Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
 moment.







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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Paula Youmans











Irmeli wrote:


People can get enlightened without these inner
structures. Then they
tend to think they are fully perfect as they are
and also superior
beings. They desperately need their enlightenment
to be seen, and
themselves to be seen as superior, because that is
their personality
structure. The personal self, that cannot work
with one's issues needs
all the time adulation and a feeling of power to
feel good about
oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These
people can create a lot
of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in
getting enlightened.

I personally think nowadays that it is probably
better that people
develop the inner structures mentioned above
before the experience of
enlightenment.

Irmeli

***



Hello  I am
very new on this list, but wanted to respond to this last bit. I am one of
those people who somehow managed to experience things in reverse order.
Strangely, it had the opposite effect on my ego...to the point that I felt I wasnt
even allowed one. 

The real point I
wanted to make about reaching those experiences before proper development is
that it almost crippled my life as well as my mind. In my life I would not
change a thing about the way it happened, but I can see how it can be both
confusing and dangerous. Very dangerous actually. 



I look forward to
getting to know this list J



Paula


















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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 6:22 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote:When we  discuss enlightenment the concepts we use tend to be quite confusing, because different individuals mean different things by those concepts. Interesting thing I've noticed is that of those of us who were weaned on the "7 states of consciousness" model, few seem to question it. If it is from "the Veda", where is it located in the Veda? What is it's description? Are they in a sequence (CC - GC - UC)? Based on how I understand `personal self' it doesn't go anywhere with enlightenment. What is gone is one's identification of the `I' with an image of one's personal self. In enlightenment the `I' becomes identified with the transcendental source and hence it becomes very stable in the turmoil of life. Nothing happens directly to the personality with its strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand the enlightened state of the `I' makes it much easier to work with personal issues and defects, because you can stay calm in blissful state in the emotional whirlwind and pain that regularly is part of a real healing. You must also have a personality structure that is capable of self reflection and of internally observing one's emotions and contradicting thought forms in order to be able to do transformative inner work.  People can get enlightened without these inner structures. Then they tend to think they are fully perfect as they are and also superior beings. They desperately need their enlightenment to be seen, and themselves to be seen as superior, because that is their personality structure. The personal self, that cannot work with one's issues needs all the time adulation and a feeling of power to feel good about oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These people can create a lot of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in getting enlightened.  I personally think nowadays that it is probably better that people develop the inner structures mentioned above before the experience of enlightenment.My feeling is get the experience of enlightenment first, gain the View of Unity. Have the Master check your View. Even if you cannot sustain it, at least you will no longer be in doubt, nor are you likely to hold any false intellectual views. Then all you have to do is "continue" and "babysit your rigpa (vidya)" as Willytex is fond of saying.





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[FairfieldLife] the monkey story..

2005-10-12 Thread anonymousff

I'm talking about the research that found that once you taught 100
monkeys a trick and they learn something then in a different place
other monkeys learn the same thing much faster. some consciousness
connection.

anyone remembers the monkey story? I'm looking for a link to the story
or maybe one of you can post it down here...

thnkx





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Re: [FairfieldLife] the monkey story..

2005-10-12 Thread Peter
This 100th monkey story turns out not to be true. It
was just sloppy field research and reporters not
understanding science. Much like the left brain, right
brain stuff of years ago: completely false. Google
100th monkey to chase it down.

--- anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I'm talking about the research that found that once
 you taught 100
 monkeys a trick and they learn something then in a
 different place
 other monkeys learn the same thing much faster. some
 consciousness
 connection.
 
 anyone remembers the monkey story? I'm looking for a
 link to the story
 or maybe one of you can post it down here...
 
 thnkx
 
 
 
 
 
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RE: [FairfieldLife] the monkey story..

2005-10-12 Thread Paula Youmans










I think you might be referring to this



http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Morphogenic_Fields/id/10001



hope so J














I'm
talking about the research that found that once you taught 100
monkeys a
trick and they learn something then in a different place
other
monkeys learn the same thing much faster. some consciousness
connection.

anyone
remembers the monkey story? I'm looking for a link to the story
or maybe one
of you can post it down here...

thnkx














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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Peter
Hi Paula and welcome to our tough neighborhood! Can
you talk about your experiences directly? You seem to
have experienced a degree of ego loss, one of the
points of enlightenment discussed here quite often. Do
you have an ego now, or is there only no thing when
mind tries to reference an I?

--- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Irmeli wrote:
 
 
 People can get enlightened without these inner
 structures. Then they
 tend to think they are fully perfect as they are and
 also superior
 beings. They desperately need their enlightenment to
 be seen, and
 themselves to be seen as superior, because that is
 their personality
 structure. The personal self, that cannot work with
 one's issues needs
 all the time adulation and a feeling of power to
 feel good about
 oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These
 people can create a lot
 of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in getting
 enlightened.
 
 I personally think nowadays that it is probably
 better that people
 develop the inner structures mentioned above before
 the experience of
 enlightenment.
 
 Irmeli
 
 ***
 
  
 
 Hello - I am very new on this list, but wanted to
 respond to this last bit.
 I am one of those people who somehow managed to
 experience things in reverse
 order. Strangely, it had the opposite effect on my
 ego...to the point that I
 felt I wasn't even allowed one. 
 
 The real point I wanted to make about reaching those
 experiences before
 proper development is that it almost crippled my
 life as well as my mind. In
 my life I would not change a thing about the way it
 happened, but I can see
 how it can be both confusing and dangerous. Very
 dangerous actually.. 
 
  
 
 I look forward to getting to know this list :-)
 
  
 
 Paula
 
 
 
   _  
 
 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson 
snip
 People can get enlightened without these inner structures. Then 
they
 tend to think they are fully perfect as they are and also superior
 beings. They desperately need their enlightenment to be seen, and
 themselves to be seen as superior, because that is their 
personality
 structure. The personal self, that cannot work with one's issues 
needs
 all the time adulation and a feeling of power to feel good about
 oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These people can create a 
lot
 of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in getting enlightened.
 
 I personally think nowadays that it is probably better that people
 develop the inner structures mentioned above before the experience 
of
 enlightenment.

Very good points. I have also been fortunate to work with some 
wonderfully enlightened people who have actually been essentially or 
completely unware of their own enlightenment, by virtue of that 
slight misunderstanding of the nature of (the remains of) ignorance: 
i.e., petty suffering we resist or ignore doesn't really go away; it 
just remains in ignorance, becoming heavier and darker the more we 
ignore it. Paradoxically the more we ignore it, the more it binds 
our attention until we find ourselves immersed in and fully 
identified with suffering. Separating ourselves from the suffering 
just enough to gain an unshakable foothold (often easiest to do by 
locating it in the body, and/or remembering who we really are), 
and then approaching it with an embrace of unconditional love, 
allowing it to feel, breathe, etc., lightens it quickly up into its 
true nature of radiant bliss. To my eye anyhow, these people are the 
most amazingly blazing Suns of Brahman who were more or less 
completely overlooking their own light and love and powerful 
attention fields by empowering ignorance and the darkness of 
suffering and not-love, all merely unrecognized and unloved portions 
of themSelves!

:-)






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ed Goldfinger was felled by heart failure in the
 mid-90s or so. He was what, 50?

Younger

 
 Was Ed Tarabilda in his 50s?
 
 Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
 oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
 Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
 trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
 warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident
 a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
 was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
 control when passing over an icy patch on 
 the road.

It was just east of that country western bar. I heard
that her jyotish, done a few days before, said nothing
about her being at risk.

 
 Let's not forget young Levi Butler, a victim of
 homicide.

Pam Noble, early 30's, brain tumors
George (used to work at ITG) early 40's, heart attack


 
 For that matter, my mother was a 10-year regular
 meditator who died of homicide at age 
 57.

Man, that is tough, Patrick!


 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care
 to expand upon it?
   
   I was struck a number of years by the legion of
 meditators, sidhas,
   initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas,
 Mother Divines, rajahs and
   other Movement potentates who had suffered
 untimely deaths. You
   mentioned several. After all, the number of
 hardcore meditators is
   really quite small, just a few thousands, I
 would think. I have worked
   for several organizations larger than that and
 cannot recall anywhere
   near a comparable percentage of people in their
 40s or 50 croaking. That
   clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would
 like to see reliable
   statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert
 Keith Wallace would be
   interested in such a research topic??!!
   
   What if we began our own accounting of such
 deaths? My start is the
   attached table. If you think it makes sense you
 might solicit names
  on FFL.
   
 Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
 Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
 Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
 Bobby Warren   drowning   45
 Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
 Margaret Cooper   MS   60
 David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
 Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
 Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
 Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
 Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
 Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
  
  
  A few more come to mind
  
  Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
  Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
  Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
  Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
  Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
  
  swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
  
  cc girl at MIU?
  
  the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
  
  Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
  
  I remember a story of someone dying outside domes
 of heart attack, the
  day after he saw top vaida guy
  
  A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who
 died of AIDS, some
  KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
  
  Seems like there are more that I have heard of but
 escape me at the
  moment.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 12, 2005, at 6:22 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote:
 
  When we  discuss enlightenment the concepts we use tend to be 
quite
  confusing, because different individuals mean different things by
  those concepts.
 
 Interesting thing I've noticed is that of those of us who were 
weaned  
 on the 7 states of consciousness model, few seem to question it. 
If  
 it is from the Veda, where is it located in the Veda? What is 
it's  
 description? Are they in a sequence (CC - GC - UC)?
 
  Based on how I understand `personal self' it doesn't go anywhere 
with
  enlightenment. What is gone is one's identification of the `I' 
with an
  image of one's personal self. In enlightenment the `I' becomes
  identified with the transcendental source and hence it becomes 
very
  stable in the turmoil of life.
  Nothing happens directly to the personality with its strengths and
  weaknesses.
  On the other hand the enlightened state of the `I' makes it much
  easier to work with personal issues and defects, because you can 
stay
  calm in blissful state in the emotional whirlwind and pain that
  regularly is part of a real healing. You must also have a 
personality
  structure that is capable of self reflection and of internally
  observing one's emotions and contradicting thought forms in order 
to
  be able to do transformative inner work.
 
  People can get enlightened without these inner structures. Then 
they
  tend to think they are fully perfect as they are and also superior
  beings. They desperately need their enlightenment to be seen, and
  themselves to be seen as superior, because that is their 
personality
  structure. The personal self, that cannot work with one's issues 
needs
  all the time adulation and a feeling of power to feel good about
  oneself. Problems are seen in the world. These people can create 
a lot
  of unnecessary havoc, but also help some in getting enlightened.
 
  I personally think nowadays that it is probably better that people
  develop the inner structures mentioned above before the 
experience of
  enlightenment.
 
 My feeling is get the experience of enlightenment first, gain the  
 View of Unity. Have the Master check your View. Even if you cannot  
 sustain it, at least you will no longer be in doubt, nor are you  
 likely to hold any false intellectual views. Then all you have to 
do  
 is continue and babysit your rigpa (vidya) as Willytex is fond 
of  
 saying.


*
As a peak experience, as a short-lived glimpse, dissolving the 
identification of  the `I' with an image of oneself is usually 
beneficial in my opinion too. I just don't call it enlightenment. I 
understand with it a permanent shift of awareness with no returning 
back. If you manage to get to that stage, you may not feel a need of 
a Master anymore even if you have a rather undeveloped personality 
structure.

Irmeli






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 Hello - I am very new on this list, but wanted to respond to this 
last bit.
 I am one of those people who somehow managed to experience things 
in reverse
 order. Strangely, it had the opposite effect on my ego...to the 
point that I
 felt I wasn't even allowed one. 
 
 The real point I wanted to make about reaching those experiences 
before
 proper development is that it almost crippled my life as well as 
my mind. In
 my life I would not change a thing about the way it happened, but 
I can see
 how it can be both confusing and dangerous. Very dangerous 
actually.. 
 
  
 
 I look forward to getting to know this list :-)
 
Hello, Paula, and welcome! Looking forward to getting to know you 
too :-)





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  When I read this, I kept hearing it in the voice
 of Gangaji, and I 
  know nothing of her, so I believe it is genuine.
 
 
 
 Thats quite a train of logic there.

Train wreck of logic! I've read quite a bit of Gangaji
and listened to many audio and video tapes of her, and
that transcript is not her speaking. Jim, just because
you feel something is true, doesn't make it true! I
heard a woman once talk to SSRS about a vivid dream
she had in which he instructed her to do something.
She followed this dream advice and a lot of problems
were created. When she asked him what had happened, he
flatly said that the person in her dream was not him.
She asked how we should know if it is him or not. He
laughed and said you know it's me when I'm talking to
you just like this.  


 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread markmeredith2002
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
 
 I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
 initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
 other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. 
snip

The TMO is largely a boomer mov't and as boomers reach middle age a
certain percentage start to die.  We notice deaths within our own
circle more.  Plus the TMO was wildly promoting Immortality and
Perfect Health at the time the deaths started so it was a big
contradiction in some minds.  I still meet campus folks who are kind
of shocked when one of their own gets seriously ill, but they were
living in stapathya ved!?.  

I've been told that they found high amounts of DDT in S. Alexander's
body, most likely from time in India.  Any group that spends more than
avg time in a country like India could have more deaths due to cancer,
esp liver and reproductive organs that are esp sensitive to pesticide
toxicity.  The TMO also has higher than avg celebate and childless
couples, which could increase prostate cancer (corelated with
celebacy) and breast cancer (breastfeeding sign. reduces odds for
breast cancer).  Of course TM reduces blood pressure, so maybe less
coronary deaths than avg. which could balance it out.  Longer term I
worry about the health of purushas, mds and campus staff (the poor
ones at least) who haven't been getting regular health care and won't
be taken care of by the tmo when they get old.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-12 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 When I read this, I kept hearing it in the voice of Gangaji, and I 
 know nothing of her, so I believe it is genuine. The one she is 
 speaking to, Rasa, is also a woman, with a very unusual website to 
 say the least(!) 

Yes, Rasa's website identifies Swami G. as Swami Ganga-Puri 
Kaliuttamananda-Giri, whose site is KundaliniSupport.com.








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[FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
Vaj wrote:
Interesting, no mention of the teacher.
Who's David Hawkins BTW?

Tom T:
Had no teacher. Had near death exp at 7 and another one during WWII.
Went on to become MD and shrink after WWII and had further
understandings. Eventually ended up in 12 step which became his
teacher. Wrote Power vs FOrce in 95 and followed up with The Eye of
the I in 2000+/- and finished with I  Reality and Subjectivity 2003.
In the last book which is mostly Q and A he admits meeting with
Muktanada and Ramesh Balsekar and both of them verfied and validated.
He also allowed that it took almost 10 years of prolonged silence ( he
quit his practice and withdrew to Sedona AZ) before he was ready to
talk about his standing. I found all of his books to have a number of
gems in them. He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to
be quite usefull since on his scale it extends from a nominal value
from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the third
book about that range and the cast of characters that play in it. Tom T





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
 
 Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
 the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
 while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
 with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
 thought she was 37 or so at the time.

Different person.
   
 There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
 lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
 
 Also, Goldfaber.

Nat is still alive, isn't he?





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
Then there was Nona Hamburg, who in the early 1970's went in to the
meditation room in the New Haven center and mysteriously died while
meditating. She was in her 20's.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Rick Archer wrote:What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names on FFL.  I'm part of an international sangha/community of a several thousand hardcore yogis and meditators. Our quarterly newspaper lists all the births and deaths in the community. There are several a year. My observation would be that a good number of people who are hardcore meditators are also hardcore into alternative health practices. In some cases they will even forego any allopathic treatment in favor of Ayurveda or Tibetan medicine, etc. etc. The majority of these people die early because they either do not seek "conventional" treatment for diseases (with sometime excellent prognoses) or they delay conventional treatment. An example that comes to mind was a woman who worked at the health food supermarket. She had a fibroid the size of a large grapefruit. Because she believed she should do everything "all natural" she refused to have this removed--even though that meant she could no longer have sex. Granted, in this case it was benign, but that just highlights in my mind what lengths some will go to to maintain a belief system--even when conventional treatment is quite capable of helping them or even curing them.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 10:22 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote:Vaj wrote: Interesting, no mention of the teacher. Who's David Hawkins BTW?  Tom T: Had no teacher. Had near death exp at 7 and another one during WWII. Went on to become MD and shrink after WWII and had further understandings. Eventually ended up in 12 step which became his teacher. Wrote Power vs FOrce in 95 and followed up with "The Eye of the I" in 2000+/- and finished with I  Reality and Subjectivity 2003. In the last book which is mostly Q and A he admits meeting with Muktanada and Ramesh Balsekar and both of them verfied and validated. He also allowed that it took almost 10 years of prolonged silence ( he quit his practice and withdrew to Sedona AZ) before he was ready to talk about his standing. I found all of his books to have a number of gems in them. He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to be quite usefull since on his scale it extends from a nominal value from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the third book about that range and the cast of characters that play in it. Tom T Very interesting, thank you.Can you share anything further about his scale of enlightenment and how it goes?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread uns_tressor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
  
  I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
  initiators, governors

A legion is 5,000 men, excluding horses and paraphernalia,
and miscellaneous siege engines. 20 odd out of 6 - 10 million
is a good enough for me. It minds me a comment I made to 
one of bbrigante's recent sillier posts: There are lies, 
damned lies and statistics. Benjamin Disraeli.
Uns.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  
   When I read this, I kept hearing it in the voice
  of Gangaji, and I 
   know nothing of her, so I believe it is genuine.
  
  
  
  Thats quite a train of logic there.
 
 Train wreck of logic! I've read quite a bit of Gangaji
 and listened to many audio and video tapes of her, and
 that transcript is not her speaking. Jim, just because
 you feel something is true, doesn't make it true! I
 heard a woman once talk to SSRS about a vivid dream
 she had in which he instructed her to do something.
 She followed this dream advice and a lot of problems
 were created. When she asked him what had happened, he
 flatly said that the person in her dream was not him.
 She asked how we should know if it is him or not. He
 laughed and said you know it's me when I'm talking to
 you just like this.  
 

I dreamed that you said that.





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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Paula Youmans










Hi Peter and thank you for the welcome! Ha-haI
hope it is a tough neighborhood! Good for learning J



I can talk about the experience directly,
but am never sure what to talk about. To tell you the truth, I
knew very little when it happened and I know even less now.

Im not sure what anyone would like
to hear. How it felt? How it changed me? Why it was difficult? What happened
spiritually and physically? There would be so much to tell!!! 



Ego loss is a tricky subject for me,
because when it is gonethere is no I to lose it. So in
that regard, of course I have an ego lol. When I disappeared
there was no me to experience itquite literally. So did I
lose ego? That is a good question (Rubbing my chin in deep thought).

I will tell you the experience and let you
decide. I was in water at the time what I consider to be me began to
disseminate. The next thing I was aware of was the question who
are you? The question reminded me that I did, in fact, exist.as I
was trying to remember who I was, I felt the words I am
coming from my own mind and everything came rushing back as I was launched out
of the water. (I swear I felt a hand push me out of the water at the same
moment I realized my legs could hold me). I most definitely would have drowned
had it not been for whatever asked me who I was. 



So, is that what people mean when they
reference ego loss? Ill never know.but it is what I mean when I
say it ;)

There was no meso how can I say I
lost it? It just happenedIt simply was. 



When I reference I now.it
is a lot like referencing your hand. It is yours and you can use it and you can
feel itbut it is not you complete. 



I sure hope I make sense lol. Words become
so awkward in these subjects; at least for me they do. 



Someone told me once that enlightenment
is not only being able to bridge into the heavens.but
being able to go AND come back at will. 

I liked that











Subject: RE:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment





Hi Paula and welcome to our tough neighborhood! Can
you talk about your experiences directly? You seem
to
have experienced a degree of ego loss, one of the
points of enlightenment discussed here quite
often. Do
you have an ego now, or is there only no thing
when
mind tries to reference an I?

--- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


















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[FairfieldLife] 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
Title: 1,000 Members





In case you didnt notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.






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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Peter
Seems like you got slapped hard when that I went.
I lost it leaving the dome one afternoon.
Consciousness withdrew back into itself and there was
no I or individuality. The mind freaked-out, but
everything kept on working all by itself.
Consciousness apperceived itself as a point. No
dimensions or time at all in that point...no inside
or outside either! Completely outside mind.

--- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Peter and thank you for the welcome! Ha-ha.I hope
 it is a tough
 neighborhood! Good for learning :-)
 
  
 
 I can talk about the experience directly, but am
 never sure what to talk
 about. To tell you the truth, I knew very little
 when it happened and I know
 even less now.
 
 I'm not sure what anyone would like to hear. How it
 felt? How it changed me?
 Why it was difficult? What happened spiritually and
 physically? There would
 be so much to tell!!! 
 
  
 
 Ego loss is a tricky subject for me, because when it
 is gone.there is no I
 to lose it. So in that regard, of course I have an
 ego lol. When I
 disappeared there was no me to experience it.quite
 literally. So did I
 lose ego? That is a good question. (Rubbing my chin
 in deep thought).
 
 I will tell you the experience and let you decide. I
 was in water at the
 time what I consider to be me began to disseminate.
 The next thing I was
 aware of was the question who are you? The
 question reminded me that I
 did, in fact, exist..as I was trying to remember who
 I was, I felt the words
 I am. coming from my own mind and everything came
 rushing back as I was
 launched out of the water. (I swear I felt a hand
 push me out of the water
 at the same moment I realized my legs could hold
 me). I most definitely
 would have drowned had it not been for whatever
 asked me who I was. 
 
  
 
 So, is that what people mean when they reference ego
 loss? I'll never
 know..but it is what I mean when I say it ;)
 
 There was no me.so how can I say I lost it? It just
 happened.It simply was.
 
 
  
 
 When I reference I now..it is a lot like
 referencing your hand. It is
 yours and you can use it and you can feel it.but it
 is not you complete. 
 
  
 
 I sure hope I make sense lol. Words become so
 awkward in these subjects; at
 least for me they do. 
 
  
 
 Someone told me once that enlightenment is not
 only being able to bridge
 into the heavens..but being able to go AND come
 back at will. 
 
 I liked that.
 
  
 
   _  
 
 Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones
 enlightenment
 
  
 
 Hi Paula and welcome to our tough neighborhood! Can
 you talk about your experiences directly? You seem
 to
 have experienced a degree of ego loss, one of the
 points of enlightenment discussed here quite often.
 Do
 you have an ego now, or is there only no thing
 when
 mind tries to reference an I?
 
 --- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
   _  
 
 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  
  --- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 jim_flanegin
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
   
When I read this, I kept hearing it in the
 voice
   of Gangaji, and I 
know nothing of her, so I believe it is
 genuine.
   
   
   
   Thats quite a train of logic there.
  
  Train wreck of logic! I've read quite a bit of
 Gangaji
  and listened to many audio and video tapes of her,
 and
  that transcript is not her speaking. Jim, just
 because
  you feel something is true, doesn't make it true!
 I
  heard a woman once talk to SSRS about a vivid
 dream
  she had in which he instructed her to do
 something.
  She followed this dream advice and a lot of
 problems
  were created. When she asked him what had
 happened, he
  flatly said that the person in her dream was not
 him.
  She asked how we should know if it is him or not.
 He
  laughed and said you know it's me when I'm talking
 to
  you just like this.  
  
 
 I dreamed that you said that.

That's funny. I dreamed that you..
 
 
 
 
 
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 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 
 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment





on 10/12/05 8:06 AM, Paula Youmans at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello  I am very new on this list, but wanted to respond to this last bit. I am one of those people who somehow managed to experience things in reverse order. Strangely, it had the opposite effect on my ego...to the point that I felt I wasnt even allowed one. 
The real point I wanted to make about reaching those experiences before proper development is that it almost crippled my life as well as my mind. In my life I would not change a thing about the way it happened, but I can see how it can be both confusing and dangerous. Very dangerous actually. 

I look forward to getting to know this list J
 
Paula

Paula, have you read Collision with the Infinite - http://tinyurl.com/exuwz
I think you would enjoy it.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 12, 2005, at 12:21 AM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is 
the
  attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit 
names  
  on FFL.
 
 
 I'm part of an international sangha/community of a several 
thousand  
 hardcore yogis and meditators. Our quarterly newspaper lists all 
the  
 births and deaths in the community. There are several a year. My  
 observation would be that a good number of people who are 
hardcore  
 meditators are also hardcore into alternative health practices. 
In  
 some cases they will even forego any allopathic treatment in favor 
of  
 Ayurveda or Tibetan medicine, etc. etc. The majority of these 
people  
 die early because they either do not seek conventional 
treatment  
 for diseases (with sometime excellent prognoses) or they delay  
 conventional treatment. An example that comes to mind was a woman 
who  
 worked at the health food supermarket. She had a fibroid the size 
of  
 a large grapefruit. Because she believed she should do everything  
 all natural she refused to have this removed--even though that  
 meant she could no longer have sex. Granted, in this case it was  
 benign, but that just highlights in my mind what lengths some will 
go  
 to to maintain a belief system--even when conventional treatment 
is  
 quite capable of helping them or even curing them.

Yes, excellent point -- as if conventional treatment is somehow NOT 
a part of God or wholeness -- the old ignoring-the-helicopter-
while-waiting-for-God-to-rescue-us-from-the-roof dodge :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In case you didn¹t notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.

Although a few of us prefer to sit when interfacing
with the group.








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[FairfieldLife] Bill Maher on Intelligent Design

2005-10-12 Thread markmeredith2002
And finally New Rule: You don't have to teach both sides of a debate,
if one side is a load of crap.

Now, President Bush recently suggested that public schools should
teach intelligent design, alongside the theory of evolution. Because,
after all, evolution is quote, just a theory. Then the President
renewed his vow to drive the terrorists straight over the edge of the
earth.

Now, here is what I don't get. President Bush is a brilliant
scientist. He's the man who proved you can mix two parts booze with
one part cocaine, and still fly a jet fighter. And yet... yet he just
can't seem to accept that we descended from apes.

It just seems pathetic to be so insecure about your biological
superiority, to a group of feces-flinging, rouge-buttocked monkeys,
that you have to make up fairy tales. Like we came from Adam and Eve,
and then cover stories for Adam and Eve like, intelligent design.
Yeah, leaving the Earth in the hands of two naked teenagers. That's a
real intelligent design.

I'm sorry, folks, but it may very well may be that life is just a
series of random events. And that there is no... master plan. But
enough about Iraq. Let me instead restate my thesis. There aren't
necessarily two sides to every issue. If there were, the Republicans
would have an opposition party.

And an opposition party would point out that even though there's a
debate, in schools, and government, about this, there is no debate
among scientists. Evolution... is supported by the entire scientific
community. Intelligent design is supported by guys online to see The
Dukes of Hazzard.

And the reason there is no real debate, is that intelligent design
isn't real science. It's the equivalent of saying that the thermos
keeps hot things hot and cold things cold, because it's a god. It's so
willfully ignorant you might as well worship the U.S. Mail. It came
again! Praise, Jesus!

No, stupidity isn't a form of knowing things. Thunder is high pressure
air meeting low pressure air. It's not God bowling. Babies come from
storks is not a competing school of thought... in medical school. We
shouldn't teach both. The media shouldn't equate both. 

If Thomas Jefferson knew we were blurring the line this much between
church and state, he would turn over in his slave. Now as for me, I
believe in evolution and intelligent design. I think God designed us
in his image, but I also think God is a monkey! God bless you and
goodnight!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Patrick Gillam
--- Peter Sutphen wrote:
 
 --- Patrick Gillam wrote:
 
  Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
  oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
  Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
  trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
  warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car accident
  a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
  was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
  control when passing over an icy patch on 
  the road.
 
 It was just east of that country western bar. I heard
 that her jyotish, done a few days before, said nothing
 about her being at risk.

Funny we would hear conflicting stories.

The version I heard was, Sandy was in a car accident 
in which she hurt her ankle pretty badly but otherwise 
got out okay. She went to a jyotishi to find out what was 
up. He looked at her chart and got very sober. That 
accident was to have been fatal, he was to have said. 
That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured 
out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse, 
which she stabled near Ottumwa.

On the way back the car hit a patch of ice and spun around 
180 degrees so that Sandy, sitting in the passenger seat, 
got slammed into the side of an oncoming truck.

I'm trying to remember who my source was for all this. 
John Small? Diana Watt? Dunno.

I was living in St. Louis at the time, but I happened to be 
visiting friends in Marshalltown when the news appeared 
in the paper. I picked up the Des Moines Register and 
skimmed the news briefs. The dateline Fairfield caught 
my eye, and I read of my friend Sandy being taken from us.

The suggestion of this thread is that these deaths may 
be statistically significant. But that's a question we are 
utterly unable to answer with these anecdotes. It is 
bittersweet and perhaps apt, however, to remember these 
people as calamities around the world take the lives of tens 
of thousands and make millions homeless.

I used to feel blessed, charmed and invincible. These days 
I feel blessed, charmed and utterly vulnerable.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they ventured
 out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her horse,
 which she stabled near Ottumwa.

Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma for a few days after the
accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a CC-like state of
detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many years. Hated it. Came to one
of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped out of the duality state
as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since. Very happy lady now.





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[FairfieldLife] For those who are looking for Fall reading material

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
The winners of the Quill Awards were just announced.
I've been following it because the recently-mentioned
(by me) author guy Christopher Moore was nominated in
the Science Fiction/Fantasy/Horror category for his
novel The Stupidest Angel: A Heartwarming Tale of 
Christmas Terror.  He won, beating out Stephen King,
Terry Pratchett, Susanna Clarke and Orson Scott Card!
Go Chris!!!

In once-related-to-TM related news, Deepak Chopra 
won in the Religion/Spirituality category for Peace 
is the Way: Bringing War and Violence to an End.

Book of the Year was, of course, J.K. Rowling's
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.  Bob Dylan
won in the Biography/Memoir category for Chronicles: 
Volume One.  And the all-important Humor award went
to Jon Stewart and the Writers of the Daily Show for
The Daily Show with Jon Stewart Presents America: 
A Citizen's Guide to Democracy Inaction.

http://www.quillsliteracy.org/categories.php







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108

  I dreamed that you said that.
 
 That's funny. I dreamed that you..

Actually, all my bad posts are a result of my dreaming that you are
telling me to post such. With a gun to my head. But I go hey you
can't pull that tiger dream gun thing on me dude. But I post what you
admonish me to do anyway. Then you yell at me in waking state for
posting such a sily or ignorant post. Go figure.

 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming one's enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Patrick Gillam
When I read this yesterday I intended to post it as its 
own thread, but it seems apt here.

This is the opening to Chapter Seven of _How Green 
Was My Valley_, by Richard Llewellyn, first published 
in 1939. The narrator, Huw, had a terrible mishap the 
night before. 

I woke up in the bed downstairs in the kitchen, and 
saw the lamplight shining red on the wooden panels. 
There is funny to wake up and not know yourself to be You.

Although you are like yourself as you are ordinarily, 
still there is something missing, and you ask yourself 
where you are, and who you are, and why. There is a 
lot missing in your life when you have no notion who 
you are. You have only a picture in front of your eyes 
and nothing but emptiness behind them, not even the 
comfort of knowing your name. Indeed, it is that which 
makes you so afraid and you will start to shout to keep 
yourself company. Man is a coward in space, for he is by 
himself, and if you feel you are alone, with not even 
yourself, that is fright for you. I wonder where the real 
You goes to when you are strange like that.

I started to shout.

But I had nothing to shout with, and that made it worse. 
Try as I would, nothing would come.

You have never been frightened if you have never lost 
yourself and your voice.

That is real fright, and awful, too.

For there you are in pure space, hearing, thinking, and 
seeing, but speechless and without knowledge, and you 
begin to cry and tears blind you, and you are frantic to 
wipe them away to be able to see, but still they come and 
you are lost in a fog of shining wet.

I wondered as I read this whether Llewellyn lost the self 
in the sense that Peter and Paula describe below, or if he's 
simply being the artist in his depiction of Huw's trauma. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Seems like you got slapped hard when that I went.
 I lost it leaving the dome one afternoon.
 Consciousness withdrew back into itself and there was
 no I or individuality. The mind freaked-out, but
 everything kept on working all by itself.
 Consciousness apperceived itself as a point. No
 dimensions or time at all in that point...no inside
 or outside either! Completely outside mind.
 
 --- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hi Peter and thank you for the welcome! Ha-ha.I hope
  it is a tough
  neighborhood! Good for learning :-)
  
   
  
  I can talk about the experience directly, but am
  never sure what to talk
  about. To tell you the truth, I knew very little
  when it happened and I know
  even less now.
  
  I'm not sure what anyone would like to hear. How it
  felt? How it changed me?
  Why it was difficult? What happened spiritually and
  physically? There would
  be so much to tell!!! 
  
   
  
  Ego loss is a tricky subject for me, because when it
  is gone.there is no I
  to lose it. So in that regard, of course I have an
  ego lol. When I
  disappeared there was no me to experience it.quite
  literally. So did I
  lose ego? That is a good question. (Rubbing my chin
  in deep thought).
  
  I will tell you the experience and let you decide. I
  was in water at the
  time what I consider to be me began to disseminate.
  The next thing I was
  aware of was the question who are you? The
  question reminded me that I
  did, in fact, exist..as I was trying to remember who
  I was, I felt the words
  I am. coming from my own mind and everything came
  rushing back as I was
  launched out of the water. (I swear I felt a hand
  push me out of the water
  at the same moment I realized my legs could hold
  me). I most definitely
  would have drowned had it not been for whatever
  asked me who I was. 
  
   
  
  So, is that what people mean when they reference ego
  loss? I'll never
  know..but it is what I mean when I say it ;)
  
  There was no me.so how can I say I lost it? It just
  happened.It simply was.
  
  
   
  
  When I reference I now..it is a lot like
  referencing your hand. It is
  yours and you can use it and you can feel it.but it
  is not you complete. 
  
   
  
  I sure hope I make sense lol. Words become so
  awkward in these subjects; at
  least for me they do. 
  
   
  
  Someone told me once that enlightenment is not
  only being able to bridge
  into the heavens..but being able to go AND come
  back at will. 
  
  I liked that.
  
   
  
_  
  
  Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones
  enlightenment
  
   
  
  Hi Paula and welcome to our tough neighborhood! Can
  you talk about your experiences directly? You seem
  to
  have experienced a degree of ego loss, one of the
  points of enlightenment discussed here quite often.
  Do
  you have an ego now, or is there only no thing
  when
  mind tries to reference an I?
  
  --- Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
  
_  
  
  
 
 
 
   
   
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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  In case you didn¹t notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.
 
 Although a few of us prefer to sit when interfacing
 with the group.


Is that because:

You can't stand some posters?

Your students are doing puja to you and just offered you a seat?

You won't stand behind some of your positions?

YOu are not a stand-up kind of guy?

You are no longer outstanding in your field? (corn?)

You got tired of doing stand-up (comedy)?

Its harder for your gf to straddle you when you stand?

The drugs make you too dizzy to stand?

Sitting is a big step up relative to where you were face-down earlier
today?

You no longer like Stand Getz?

You can't stand and chew gum at the same time?

It stood to reason, so you decided to sit?

You got tired of standng by your man?

The french wouldn't buy anything at your lemonade stand?

The voices in your head said to Stand-Down.

You got mixed up in the lean to the left, lean to the right, stand
up, sit down, fight fight fight routine in your Yell-Leaders for Life
group.

 











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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
   In case you didn¹t notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.
  
  Although a few of us prefer to sit when interfacing
  with the group.
 
 
 Is that because:
 
 You can't stand some posters?
 
 Your students are doing puja to you and just offered you a seat?
 
 You won't stand behind some of your positions?
 
 YOu are not a stand-up kind of guy?
 
 You are no longer outstanding in your field? (corn?)
 
 You got tired of doing stand-up (comedy)?
 
 Its harder for your gf to straddle you when you stand?
 
 The drugs make you too dizzy to stand?
 
 Sitting is a big step up relative to where you were face-down 
 earlier today?
 
 You no longer like Stand Getz?
 
 You can't stand and chew gum at the same time?
 
 It stood to reason, so you decided to sit?
 
 You got tired of standng by your man?
 
 The french wouldn't buy anything at your lemonade stand?
 
 The voices in your head said to Stand-Down.
 
 You got mixed up in the lean to the left, lean to the right, stand
 up, sit down, fight fight fight routine in your Yell-Leaders for 
 Life group.

All of the above.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..

2005-10-12 Thread sparaig
--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference?
  
  It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World
  Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable
  of answering any question as well as handling any task.
 
 Tom T:
 I have two friends who are Enlightened 

And you knowthis because?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's designated successor..

2005-10-12 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/12/05 12:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In 
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 10/6/05 2:37 PM, peterklutz at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Any one seen the Oct 5, 2005 press conference?
 
 It's now official: the Prime Minister of the Global Country of World
 Peace, His Excellency Dr Bevan Morris, is Enlightened and is capable
 of answering any question as well as handling any task.
 
 Tom T:
 I have two friends who are Enlightened
 
 And you knowthis because?

My question would have been Only two?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
 Tom T:
 He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to
 be quite useful since on his scale it extends from a nominal value
 from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the third
 book about that range and the cast of characters that play in it. Tom 

A scale seems to be a better, though still imperfect, means to map
the growth of spiritual unfoldment. Its better than the discreet
on/off model many seem partial to. The latter being akin to a point,
the former is a one dimensional ruler or timelime type scale,
indicating a series of continuing transitions. 

Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph. It
helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence of
happenings. 

For example, various peoples experience could be plotted on two
characteristics of the the experience -- as a scatter plot. In terms
of xy values, there may be individual experiences at points (1,2)
(1,3) (4,4) (2,1) (2,2) (3,2) etc. While easier to simply plot
visually, or draw on a blackboard, bear with me.  It provides a
non-ranking way of viewing various types of awakening experience. 
Experience (1,2) is different from (2,1) but clearly not better.
Though (4,4) is acknowledged as richer than (3,3).

Much more realistic would be a three dimenional plot -- where by three
different characteristics or attributes of awakening would be plotted.
In such a 3-d frame, the ability to rank becomes even less, which in
my view is a good thing -- getting away  from some of the distortions,
manipulations and cons that can occur in such discussions -- whether
self-imposed or imposed by others.

You can see where this is going. I hold that there are more than three
dimensions or salient characteristics of spiritual growth. Not sure
of an outside number, but its probably more than 10. Thus,
mathematically, its easy to plot different peoples experiences on say
10 dimensions -- on ten specific characteristics of awakening. (Though
admitedly a bit hard to visualize). 

On such a 10 or more multi-dimensional scale several things become
apparent:

1) There is a huge variety of growth experiences. 

This perhaps parallels Tom's often remark that there are 100 million
flavors. The only apparent difference with that view and this
multi-dimensional scale model is that in this model, the mapped
points are snapshots in time, not endpoints, e.g. there are not 100
million flavors of enlightenment, but 100 milion flavors of growth
trajectories (or vectors), as discussed below.

2) Growth / Refinement Continues Indefinately 

Enlightenment, connates, to me at least, an endpoint. The model views
trajectories of growth and refinement as continuing. One level of this
is Self is seen in more and deeper dimensions of previously
non-self. Even those claiming Brahman (or as they would say, Brahamn
claiming them), an apparent and proported endpoint, report continual
reintegration of Self across more and more phenomenon and actions.
Thus some level of growth continues, even when all has been attained

The proposed model views the mapping of points in the
multi-dimensional space as milestones or simple current mappings of
ongoing trajectories -- with no necessary endpoint (or one so far out
there is is silly to contemplate). Thus, in this models' view, saying
there are 100 million different flavors of the rest stops of the many
people on the path is correct and good. But saying there are 100
million flavors of enlightenment or endpoints -- that is mu --
none-sensical, in this open-ended framework -- where trajectories of
growth can continue indefinately -- at least to rainbow body etc. 

3) Cross-personal experiences are almost unrankable in 10 dimensions. 

While someone whose experience and attainments maps to
(10,9,10,11,8,12,7,10,9,10) is a bit further along than someone
mapped at (2,1,3,2,1,4,2,3,4,3), most such comparisions and rankings
cannot be made.  (2,4,3,6,9,11,15,4,11,9) and (8,12,5,12,9,,5,4,4,3)
are two different people with quite differnt progress on the 10
dimensions of spiritual growth, but no one can say one is higher
than the other.

4) The saint / enlightened issue is resolved. 

Person A might score very high on the scales of no I, no doer,
witnessng sleep inner glow but very low on compassion, anger
management, resolving returning karma, native intelligence, speaking
ill of others, being manipulative, cold..

Person B might be be highly compassionate, very loving, always
suportive, always sacraficing for others, but still has some sense of
I, does not always witness sleep, and pushes themselves to DO MORE.

And some one might score high or low on all dimensions.

5) Provides a wider map of human growth and development and reduces
the tendency for one-dimensional views of enlightenement and growth. 

That is, subsets of the larger map have a harder time claiming
superiority over other subsets.  If that sounds obtuse, let me give an
example. Borrowing the cases above. Person A may ridicule person B

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote: Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph. It helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence of "happenings".   For example, various peoples experience could be plotted on two characteristics of the "the experience" -- as a scatter plot. In terms of xy values, there may be individual experiences at points (1,2) (1,3) (4,4) (2,1) (2,2) (3,2) etc. While easier to simply plot visually, or draw on a blackboard, bear with me.  It provides a non-ranking way of viewing various types of awakening experience.  Experience (1,2) is different from (2,1) but clearly not "better". Though (4,4) is acknowledged as richer than (3,3). Have you seen Bentov's time/space/consciousness scale? That's the best experiential model I've seen conveyed. Very nice.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/12/05 10:56 AM, Patrick Gillam at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  That's why Sandy had her friend drive when they
 ventured
  out on highway 34 on a winter day to check her
 horse,
  which she stabled near Ottumwa.
 
 Her friend Susan, who was driving, was in an coma
 for a few days after the
 accident. Still has pins in her leg. She was in a
 CC-like state of
 detachment (unrelated to the accident) for many
 years. Hated it. Came to one
 of our Wednesday night satsangs and cried. Popped
 out of the duality state
 as she was leaving, and has been in Unity since.
 Very happy lady now.

Ho Humjust another day at the satsang!



 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote:Enlightenment, connates, to me at least, an endpoint.Hmmm. Never got that., although unimpeded omniscience might seem that way.clip  The proposed model views the mapping of points in the multi-dimensional space as milestones or simple current mappings of ongoing trajectories -- with no necessary endpoint (or one so far "out there" is is silly to contemplate). Thus, in this models' view, saying there are 100 million different flavors of the rest stops of the many people on the "path" is correct and good. But saying there are 100 million flavors of "enlightenment" or endpoints -- that is "mu" -- none-sensical, in this open-ended framework -- where trajectories of growth can continue indefinately -- at least to rainbow body etc.  But even Rainbow body is a beginning since they have the ability to divide into tens of thousands of different manifestations, all capable of incarnating or affecting other dimensions--and not necessarily within linear time.One person I spoke to on retreat a number of years ago claimed that M. did a lecture on the "absolute body" based on the cognitions of Brighu rishi where he described these various bodies. I wish someone would present a transcript--which used to circulate. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Tom T:
  He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to
  be quite useful since on his scale it extends from a nominal value
  from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the 
  third book about that range and the cast of characters that play 
  in it. Tom 
 
 Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph. It
 helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence of
 happenings. 

And even better still might be a hearty Who cares,
followed by an even heartier laugh.  :-)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- Peter Sutphen wrote:
  
  --- Patrick Gillam wrote:
  
   Sandy Kopff was 47 when her car slid into an
   oncoming truck between Fairfield and 
   Ottumwa. I'm told the accident was one she was
   trying to avoid by virtue of having been 
   warned by a jyotishi. She had been in a car
 accident
   a few weeks earlier. A friend of hers 
   was driving during the fatal incident; they lost
   control when passing over an icy patch on 
   the road.
  
  It was just east of that country western bar. I
 heard
  that her jyotish, done a few days before, said
 nothing
  about her being at risk.
 
 Funny we would hear conflicting stories.

Your version is more detailed...I'd go with that. Some
time ago when I lived in Fairfield Charlie Heath had
some new jytoish software so he did my chart and saw
that there was a specific period I was entering that I
was at risk for an accident in a car. He also said
that it seemed that no injury would occur. A few weeks
later on my way to Iowa City, a women turned in front
of me to go into the then new Wal Mart. I smacked
right into her at 60MPH totaling her car and my car.
Neither of us had a scratch. I told Charlie about it
and he was so excited that he saw it coming. That's
the only time I've ever been impressed by jyotish.   



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/12/05 8:06 AM, Paula Youmans at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Hello ­ I am very new on this list, but wanted to
 respond to this last bit. I
  am one of those people who somehow managed to
 experience things in reverse
  order. Strangely, it had the opposite effect on my
 ego...to the point that I
  felt I wasn¹t even ³allowed² one.
  The real point I wanted to make about reaching
 those experiences before proper
  development is that it almost crippled my life as
 well as my mind. In my life
  I would not change a thing about the way it
 happened, but I can see how it can
  be both confusing and dangerous. Very dangerous
 actuallyŠ.
   
  I look forward to getting to know this list J
   
  Paula
  
 
 Paula, have you read ³Collision with the Infinite² -
 http://tinyurl.com/exuwz
 I think you would enjoy it.

Ditto on that. The story of a woman awakening to the
horror of the fullness of emptiness.



 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   Tom T:
   He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to
   be quite useful since on his scale it extends from a nominal value
   from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the 
   third book about that range and the cast of characters that play 
   in it. Tom 
  
  Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph. It
  helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence of
  happenings. 
 
 And even better still might be a hearty Who cares,
 followed by an even heartier laugh.  :-)


Well you are just sitting in for the Real Unc, so your points
don't count -- and are like a candle in a windless place. Dim.

 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Your version is more detailed...I'd go with that. Some
 time ago when I lived in Fairfield Charlie Heath had
 some new jytoish software so he did my chart and saw
 that there was a specific period I was entering that I
 was at risk for an accident in a car. He also said
 that it seemed that no injury would occur. A few weeks
 later on my way to Iowa City, a women turned in front
 of me to go into the then new Wal Mart. I smacked
 right into her at 60MPH totaling her car and my car.
 Neither of us had a scratch. I told Charlie about it
 and he was so excited that he saw it coming. That's
 the only time I've ever been impressed by jyotish.   

The other night I watched the film Paycheck,
based upon on a story by the great Philip K.
Dick.  As usual, the film didn't do justice
to the ideas in the original story, but it did
have one part that caught my ear, because it
summed up many of my feelings about Jyotish or
other methods of prognostication.  (I've never
been interested.)

In the film, they develop a machine that sees
into the future.  They see a war coming, so they
start doing things to prevent it, things that are
misinterpreted and cause the war.

The basic premise is that the drawback of seeing
the future is that once you've seen it and
convinced yourself it's true, you start subcon-
sciously trying to make it come about.

I'd rather just see what happens when it happens...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread andrasayer
Nat is very much alive.

Some to add to the untimely list:
Denise Robatai
Julia Fritz
Sharon Welsh
Tobi Finebloom
Sabine (German lady)
all were on Mother Divine.

Skip Alexander
Debbie Kockel
the Purusha guy in the fire




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
  
  Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
  the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
  while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
  with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
  thought she was 37 or so at the time.
 
 Different person.

  There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
  lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
  
  Also, Goldfaber.
 
 Nat is still alive, isn't he?







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Peter
This is one of the clearest responses articulating the
 condition of I after realization. It's brilliant.
Wondering what happens to the I in enlightenment is
like asking what happens to the knot after it's
untied; what happens to the darkness when the light is
turned on. What happens is that they no longer exist.
They are not accounted for because they cease to
beassimilated, silenced, replaced by no-thing! 

snip

 
 Questioner: There is confusion about the state of
 enlightenment and
 about the individual to whom it happens or who
 is it that has
 become enlightened. There is a common saying that
 the truly
 enlightened being does not claim to be
 enlightened, so that anybody
 who states that they are must be in error,
 
 Answer: There is great difficulity in describing a
 condition that is
 not within the experiental reality of the ego, and
 especially in
 answering a question the asking of which stems from
 the dualistic
 paradigm of reality of the questioner. An
 enlightened being *is* their
 condition; thus, there is no purpose to make a
 'claim'. That is an ego
 view. 
 
 The personal self does not become enlightened or
 transformed but
 instead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by a
 different
 condition altogether.
 
 Implied in the common saying that we are discussing
 is the belief that
 to disclaim being enlightened is a form of modesty.
 This is a
 projection of the spiritual ego of the originator of
 such a statement
 for in the condition of enlightenment, no egotism
 remains. The state
 is merely a simple fact; it is not an achievment. It
 has no merits or
 anything which is laudatory that would require the
 posture of
 pseudo-humility. In the naive spiritual community,
 there is much
 adulation, charismatic glamour, and the importance
 attributed to
 'enlightened masters', and the like.These are
 projections. To the
 enlightened being, the state is merely the natural
 condition of how it is.
 
 Tom T
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread Peter


--- andrasayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Nat is very much alive.
 
 Some to add to the untimely list:
 Denise Robatai
 Julia Fritz
 Sharon Welsh
 Tobi Finebloom
 Sabine (German lady)
 all were on Mother Divine.
 
 Skip Alexander
 Debbie Kockel
 the Purusha guy in the fire

Sten, Rick's friend


 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

 Margaret Cooper   MS   60
   
   Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret
 Norman, but
   the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for
 a
   while and a resident of my town before moving to
 ff
   with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60.
 I
   thought she was 37 or so at the time.
  
  Different person.
 
   There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
   lightning while hiking up a mountain in
 Colorado.
   
   Also, Goldfaber.
  
  Nat is still alive, isn't he?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph.
   It helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence
   of happenings. 
  
  And even better still might be a hearty Who cares,
  followed by an even heartier laugh.  :-)
 
 Well you are just sitting in for the Real Unc, so your points
 don't count -- and are like a candle in a windless place. Dim.

Dim, bright...there you go with the measurement thang
again.  Isn't it enough to be an emitter of light rather 
than darkness?  :-)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj


On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Peter wrote:This is one of the clearest responses articulating the  condition of "I" after realization. It's brilliant. Wondering what happens to the "I" in enlightenment is like asking what happens to the knot after it's untied; what happens to the darkness when the light is turned on. What happens is that they no longer exist. They are not accounted for because they cease to be"assimilated, silenced, replaced" by no-thing!   Answer: There is great difficulity in describing acondition that isnot within the experiental reality of the ego, andespecially inanswering a question the asking of which stems fromthe dualisticparadigm of reality of the questioner. Anenlightened being *is* theircondition; thus, there is no purpose to make a'claim'. That is an egoview.The personal self does not become enlightened ortransformed butinstead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by adifferentcondition altogether.Implied in the common saying that we are discussingis the belief thatto disclaim being enlightened is a form of modesty.This is aprojection of the spiritual ego of the originator ofsuch a statementfor in the condition of enlightenment, no egotismremains. The stateis merely a simple fact; it is not an achievment. Ithas no merits oranything which is laudatory that would require theposture ofpseudo-humility. In the naive spiritual community,there is muchadulation, charismatic glamour, and the importanceattributed to'enlightened masters', and the like.These areprojections. To theenlightened being, the state is merely the naturalcondition of how it is.From my POV it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the eastern experience of "ahamkara" (translated often as "ego") and the Freudian, psychological or New Age idea of "ego". The two are not the same, although many assume they are. When you lose ahamkara, you lose the ability to identify with your body. In laymen's terms, you die. In general, organs and cells don't like it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I just came across this. Know anyone or groups of people like this?
 
 

Orthodox Jews?

 
 *  Orthorexia nervosa  
 
   o Not an official eating disorder diagnosis, but the 
concept
 is useful. The name was coined by Steven Bratman, M.D. to 
describe a
 pathological fixation on eating proper or pure or superior 
food. 
 
   o People with orthorexia nervosa feel superior to others 
who
 eat improper food, which might include non-organic or junk foods 
and
 items found in regular grocery stores, as opposed to health food 
stores. 
 
   o Orthorexics obsess over what to eat, how much to eat, 
how
 to prepare food properly, and where to obtain pure and proper
 foods. 
 
   o Eating the right food becomes an important ,or even 
the
 primary, focus of life. One's worth or goodness is seen in terms of
 what one does or does not eat. Personal values, relationships, 
career
 goals, and friendships become less important than the quality and
 timing of what is consumed. 
 
   o Perhaps related to, or a type of, obsessive-compulsive
 disorder







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph.
It helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence
of happenings. 
   
   And even better still might be a hearty Who cares,
   followed by an even heartier laugh.  :-)
  
  Well you are just sitting in for the Real Unc, so your points
  don't count -- and are like a candle in a windless place. Dim.
 
 Dim, bright...there you go with the measurement thang
 again.  Isn't it enough to be an emitter of light rather 
 than darkness?  :-)

Darness emittor? How did you find out about that? You must be from the
dark side as well, brother.

Actually, to be serious for a second (its hard), I am using the
scale thing NOT to measure and compare, but rather to get away from
that and provide a map, as a visual tool, to indicate that thre is
huge diversity of human and spiritual growth -- and claims of
superiority (often implicit) are bogus. 

Its a model / view that says you are emitting light? GREAT! 

Its a model to get away from claims that any one dimensionality
measures of growth are the end all and be all, such as: I find no
'I' therefore I guess this is IT.  






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread scienceofabundance
I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy checking in with 
FFL now and again.  Being dead is often boring but if you like to 
surf the Web it can be pretty cool, because the connections are very 
fast and we have very good anti-virus software. We are told here 
that unconsciously wanting to have faster Web connections is the 
principal reason for untimely deaths in the TMO. 





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon 
it?
  
  I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, 
sidhas,
  initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, 
rajahs and
  other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
  mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators 
is
  really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have 
worked
  for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall 
anywhere
  near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 
croaking. That
  clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see 
reliable
  statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace 
would be
  interested in such a research topic??!!
  
  What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is 
the
  attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit 
names
 on FFL.
  
Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
Bobby Warren   drowning   45
Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
 
 
 A few more come to mind
 
 Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
 Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
 Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
 Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
 Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
 
 swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
 
 cc girl at MIU?
 
 the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
 
 Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
 
 I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, 
the
 day after he saw top vaida guy
 
 A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
 KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
 
 Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
 moment.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread mrfishey2001


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 This is one of the clearest responses articulating the
  condition of I after realization. It's brilliant.
 Wondering what happens to the I in enlightenment is
 like asking what happens to the knot after it's
 untied; what happens to the darkness when the light is
 turned on. What happens is that they no longer exist.
 They are not accounted for because they cease to
 beassimilated, silenced, replaced by no-thing! 
 

Yes, but itÕs a bit like habitually discussing what happened on the 
first day of the week. If this is the assumption, enlightenment - 
delightful! But we live in a narrative word, it unfolds. Were 
enlightenment merely a psychological position, there would be little 
historical record. Strangely, this is not the case. With access to 
something other than ones own constructions a universal must 
necessarily seek expression. 

Without application enlightenment is meaningless

-





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread TurquoiseB
And even better still might be a hearty Who cares,
followed by an even heartier laugh.  :-)
   
   Well you are just sitting in for the Real Unc, so your 
points
   don't count -- and are like a candle in a windless place. Dim.
  
  Dim, bright...there you go with the measurement thang
  again.  Isn't it enough to be an emitter of light rather 
  than darkness?  :-)
 
 Darkness emittor? How did you find out about that? You must be 
 from the dark side as well, brother.

There was an electronics catalog a while back that
used to list bogus items for sale, just to see if
anyone was stupid enough to order them.  One of the
items offered for sale was DEDs (Darkness Emitting
Diodes).  They also listed WOM (Write Only Memory)
chips.  Amazingly, they got lots of customers trying
to order them.  :-)

 Actually, to be serious for a second (its hard), I am using the
 scale thing NOT to measure and compare, but rather to get away from
 that and provide a map, as a visual tool, to indicate that thre is
 huge diversity of human and spiritual growth -- and claims of
 superiority (often implicit) are bogus. 
 
 Its a model / view that says you are emitting light? GREAT! 
 
 Its a model to get away from claims that any one dimensionality
 measures of growth are the end all and be all, such as: I 
 find no 'I' therefore I guess this is IT. 

Cool, I guess.  I just find that I'm less and less
interested in models or in concepts of 'progress'
these days.  Every day is such an adventure that
there's very little time left to wonder what's
next.  About the only thing I'm fairly sure about
is that something *will* be 'next.'  :-)

Like Vaj (if I understood him correctly), I see
no end to the evolutionary process.  IMO, we might 
as well just kick back and enjoy the journey, 
because we're going to be on it for a long time.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I always thought it was interesting that you always seem to find 
the  
  most unhealthy looking people in health food stores. Of course 
maybe  
  that's why they're there. But there are patterns you can easily  
  observe and this quote seems to catch that. Interesting.
 
 The summary / description seemed to me to describe a lot of TMO 
folks
 --very fixated on diet, and feeling superior to, or at least
 highly distinguished rom others who are not so satvic. 
 
 Regarding health food stores, maybe its a geographic thing, but on 
the
 west coast many health food stores are supermarket sized and pretty
 mainstream -- not the small mom and pop hippie stores of yesteryear.
 And, IME, have many quite vibrant looking people in them. I find 
less
 healthy looking people (not all) at WalMart and Costco. And regular
 supermarkets have more health food products than health food 
stores
 of the past -- organic milk, vegetables, whole grains, bulk staples,
 good salad bars, fresh bakeries, tofu, etc.


Of course,the definition of organic may be changing. Anyone know if 
the Congressional vote passed to allow approved additives for 
the organic label?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-12 Thread Bhairitu
akasha_108 wrote:

What is the advantage of a limited corporate life?
  


  

The corporations wield too much power.   



And thus the solution is too abolish them? 

  

No, rein them in.  Break them up.  They are too large and many 
corporations are really a bunch of smaller groups anymore anyway.

Unless you forgot this country was began as a rebellion against the
British East India Companyvir a rather large and powerful multinational.

And thus all coorporations today are bad and should be disolved?

  

I would suspect that many a large corporation CEO would sigh a relief at 
having an almost impossible task of managing such a monster taken away 
from and in its place a smaller more reasonable one to manage.

I suppose if you are locked into capitalistic thinking then this all 
sounds horrible.  



I am not locked into any thinking. I do favor things which works. The
capital markets (and the corporate structure enables them) are the
drivers of technology, innovation and growth. Not perfect, refinements
always needed. But its sad you can think of no other alternative than
to dissolve corporations and capital markets rather than reform them.

  

Well you are a little wrong there.  Since I work in the tech field I 
know that most of the innovation comes from small companies and 
startups.  Later they may be gobbled up by a larger firm.

Right now their batting 
average as far as the environment goes is not too good.



And this is why they should be dissovled? Again thats a sad POV. 

  

Again I said nothing about dissolving them.

Corporations, as well as individual proprietorships and partnerships
(should they be disolved too?), are bound by environmental laws and
regulation. Its primarily the governements fault, and ultimately the
voters, that such laws, regulations and incentive mechanisms are
weaker than optimal. 

  

Obviously you didn't read anything from the book link I included did 
you.  Hartmann himself has a corporation.  He isn't saying that you need 
to dissolve corporations but the restrictions the founding fathers put 
on them were there for good reasoning.

If you want better environmental track records by corporations, tax
pollution, enact real vehicle efficiency standards -- including trucks
and SUVs, tax gasoline (on the order of $2/gal), enact a BTU and
carbon tax (which would affect electical, natural gas and coal
production), tax the full lifescyle costs  of nuclear mining and
waste, etc. In other words, incorporate the costs of pollution into
the cost of things that pollute. As economists say, Internalize the
externalities. 

If the above were done, corporations would have excellent environtal
records. And the overall economy would be more efficient, cleaner, and
growing at a faster rate (allowing more funding for things like
educations and health.)


  

I see nothing wrong with that idea.  However you would still have to 
watch over the corporate gangsters.  Just letting them run wild will 
plunder the planet into death.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread bmorry2000
Margaret Norman--around 1992?  age probably early 40s  cause of death 
anorexia complications

Katherin Greco--around 2003? age early 50s; cause of death cancer

Janice Langstaff--around 2002? age early 50s; cause of death cancer

Carol Dixon--around 1990? age early 40s; cause of death cancer

LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
TMO participants


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, andrasayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Nat is very much alive.
 
 Some to add to the untimely list:
 Denise Robatai
 Julia Fritz
 Sharon Welsh
 Tobi Finebloom
 Sabine (German lady)
 all were on Mother Divine.
 
 Skip Alexander
 Debbie Kockel
 the Purusha guy in the fire
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

 Margaret Cooper   MS   60
   
   Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
   the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
   while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
   with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
   thought she was 37 or so at the time.
  
  Different person.
 
   There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
   lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
   
   Also, Goldfaber.
  
  Nat is still alive, isn't he?
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Cool, I guess.  I just find that I'm less and less
 interested in models or in concepts of 'progress'
 these days. 

And thats NOT what the model I suggest is about. Ironically, its a
visualization tool to get away from all of that -- measuring and
comparing and even SEEKING progress. Its a tool to stop seeking more
(wow, enlightenment will sure be kewl -- and other logic train wrecks
-- and simply live what is her now. 

 Every day is such an adventure that
 there's very little time left to wonder what's
 next.  About the only thing I'm fairly sure about
 is that something *will* be 'next.'  :-)

yes change is the one absolute. 
 
 Like Vaj (if I understood him correctly), I see
 no end to the evolutionary process.  

Yes. My point about the Rainbow Body was not that it is an endpoint,
but that it is so far beyond the no I or other experiences -- that
its silly to think one has reached the pinnacle of human development
-- when they have that experience.


 IMO, we might 
 as well just kick back and enjoy the journey, 
 because we're going to be on it for a long time.

Actually, thats exactly my position and point. Though perhaps I get it
in a more convoluted way, or a least different than you. Or not. 

The model, is NOT a tool to plot ones daily progress, or compare
progress, etc.

Its simply an antidote view to the discussions and claims of I am
There and this one attribute is IT.  Thats among the reasons that
over the past 3 years I have defended the view that labels such as
enlightenment provide little or no value. 

Change and refinement continue to occur even, paradoxically when
non-change is at the core, and / or prevades all. And there is not
one single, unitary attribute that defines the path or milesones /
attributes on the path. 

While you may not be in need of such an antidote -- perhaps because
you have not been involved in all the discussons on this list over the
years (though I am sure you have been in many similar ones) -- I do
find it a quenching tonic. Like bitters when one has been surrounded
by a sweetness view of things.












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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Bhairitu 
  Likewise 
  that large  corporations realize they are bad for society and ask 
  Congress to reinstitute the laws that existed up until the Civil 
War 
  when corporations did not have the rights of an individual, had
 limited  size and life.
 
 What is the advantage of a limited corporate life?
 
 And how would the capital markets then function? Equity offerings
 would be for a 10 year company? Currently public shares would be
 converted to some limited life equity form?
 
 Limit even that though might be sub optimal for a particular market 
at
 a particular time? Let politicians determine optimal business unit 
sizing?


Personally, I think there should be a constitutional ammendment 
stating that corporations have no rights save those explicitly 
given by Congress.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-12 Thread Bhairitu
akasha_108 wrote:

Bush may spearhead major tax reform that provides substantial growth
impetus to the economy. Proposals may include substantially reducing
one of the biggest sinkholes for productive capital, the home mortgage
deduction, and  offsetting that with elimination of double taxation of
investment income -- another current drain on productive capital. A
win/win tradeoff for long-run economic growth. Also proposed are the
elimination or restriction of tax preferences / incentives already
embedded in the law -- essentially corporate welfare -- this along
with the resulting simplification of the tax code is another great
boon for economic growth.


Bush Panel May Curb Tax Breaks for Homeowners, Health (Update3)

  

Anything that Bush touches isn't trustworthy.

Oct. 11 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush's tax advisory panel,
rejecting a fundamental overhaul, agreed to recommend limiting tax
breaks for homeowners and employer- provided health-care benefits to
help pay for repealing the alternative minimum tax.

The panel, meeting in Washington today, agreed the current $1 million
cap on deductible mortgage interest should be reduced, possibly to
about $350,000, and that the deduction should yield no more than a 25
percent tax savings, down from a top savings now of about 35 percent.

  

I would have to review how this would effect me (as well as millions of 
others) as probably wouldn't be able to afford my house without the 
deduction.  I definitely at my age (58) am not going to work too jobs to 
pay for it.  You will probably find strong opposition on this from the 
Realtor associations so it won't go anywhere.

The panel also said it would probably recommend capping tax deductions
for employer-provided health-care plans. Current law allows employers
to deduct the value of premiums paid on behalf of their workers
without the benefit being considered taxable income to the employee.
The panel discussed placing the cap at the maximum amount the federal
government pays in premiums for its workers, currently about $11,000.

  

Yes, employer health premiums are ridiculous.  A good argument for a 
single payer system.  I noted at the company I worked at my employees 
would  go running to the doctor for any little thing which if they were 
made to cover some of the cost they wouldn't.  There is agreement that 
there is abuse of many of these healthcare benefits.

``These are the things we're looking at,'' said panel Vice Chairman
John Breaux, a Democrat and former senator from Louisiana. ``We have a
concept. We know where to go. We just don't have the details.''

Both changes would preserve the incentives for lower-and middle-income
workers while curbing them for wealthier Americans who are getting a
disproportionate benefit, panelists said.

  

Good but I would need to study the details more.

Breaux said such ``tough choices'' would raise ``a generous amount''
of taxes to help offset the $1.3 trillion cost of repealing the
alternative minimum tax, he said. The minimum tax, imposed in 1969 to
ensure that 200 wealthy families didn't escape tax with excess
deductions, is now forcing millions of middle- income families to pay
higher taxes because it was never indexed for inflation.

  

Then should have been amended to be indexed with inflation.  But I would 
favor get rid of some of the loopholes the rich have instead.

No Sales Tax

The panel decided not to endorse a national sales tax in its final
recommendations and most panel members expressed reservations about a
European-style value-added tax, which is in place in most
industrialized countries.

  

Yes but simpler to manage.

Both systems would disproportionately hurt the poor, panelists said,
and some members such as Chairman Connie Mack, the former Republican
senator from Florida, and former Minnesota Representative Bill Frenzel
said they worry a value-added tax would make it too easy for the
government to raise money and increase spending programs.

Mack asked the panel's staff to devise a specific proposal that would
layer a value-added tax on the current system and reduce individual
and corporate income tax rates.

Still, he said that as the panel's work begins to wrap up, it's
looking more and more to making changes within the current system.

Value-Added Tax

``We're getting focused down on the income tax here,'' Mack said. In a
later interview, he added, ``I would be surprised if we were to
conclude that we want to offer a value-added tax proposal to the
president.''

The panel increasingly is looking to eliminate or restrict tax
preferences already embedded in the law. David Walker, the head of the
Government Accountability Office, said Sept. 23 that uncollected
revenue because of the incentives tripled since 1974 to $730 billion.
The biggest embedded tax breaks subsidize housing and health care,
Walker said.

  

Every year even with a tax preparer I have to do too much bookkeeping 
for my tastes.  I am more right brained than 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-12 Thread Bhairitu
anonymousff wrote:

Tax breaks for homeownership particularly help the wealthy while
lower-income people don't get enough benefits, said panelists such as
Liz Ann Sonders, the chief investment officer at San Francisco-based
Charles Schwab Corp. The current incentives, including the fact that
most home sales are tax-free, are driving up home prices, making them
unaffordable or pushing lower-income borrowers to take out risky
mortgages.

``We are starting to see some significant pain here,'' Sonders said.

The panel agreed to a proposal by former IRS Commissioner Charles
Rossotti to make it easier for lower income Americans to get a tax
break for donating money to charity.



This is just more pure b.s by the PResident and his cronies who are
easily the biggest crooks and liars and distorters of reality than
have ever run this country. Reading their b.s is like being on a bad
acid trip which I have had.

One of the benefits of owning a home for the lower income people is
the tax benefit. How many impoverised people are likely to increase
the money they donate?! 

What a bunch of amazingly crooked s**t.
  

I agree, you have to watch this bunch like a hawk before they pick your 
pockets.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  on 10/12/05 8:06 AM, Paula Youmans at
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The real point I wanted to make about reaching
  those experiences before proper
   development is that it almost crippled my life as
  well as my mind. In my life
   I would not change a thing about the way it
  happened, but I can see how it can
   be both confusing and dangerous. Very dangerous
  actuallyŠ.

   I look forward to getting to know this list J

   Paula
  
  Paula, have you read ³Collision with the Infinite² -
  http://tinyurl.com/exuwz
  I think you would enjoy it.
 
 Ditto on that. The story of a woman awakening to the
 horror of the fullness of emptiness.

Or the books of Bernadette Roberts; I think the first
is The Experience of No-Self.  She's a Christian
contemplative who unexpectedly slipped into the
experience and had quite a struggle dealing with it,
went through several stages, ending up in what sounds
a lot like MMY's descriptions of Unity consciousness.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  I just came across this. Know anyone or groups of people like
  this?
 
 Orthodox Jews?

Actually no, unless they're recent converts, or
Jews who recently decided to become observant.
Those who grew up with kashrut take it pretty
much for granted; it's second nature.




  *  Orthorexia nervosa  
  
o Not an official eating disorder diagnosis, but the 
 concept
  is useful. The name was coined by Steven Bratman, M.D. to 
 describe a
  pathological fixation on eating proper or pure or superior 
 food. 
  
o People with orthorexia nervosa feel superior to 
others 
 who
  eat improper food, which might include non-organic or junk 
foods 
 and
  items found in regular grocery stores, as opposed to health food 
 stores. 
  
o Orthorexics obsess over what to eat, how much to eat, 
 how
  to prepare food properly, and where to obtain pure 
and proper
  foods. 
  
o Eating the right food becomes an important ,or even 
 the
  primary, focus of life. One's worth or goodness is seen in terms 
of
  what one does or does not eat. Personal values, relationships, 
 career
  goals, and friendships become less important than the quality and
  timing of what is consumed. 
  
o Perhaps related to, or a type of, obsessive-compulsive
  disorder
 







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread gullible fool

  Also, Goldfaber.
 
 Nat is still alive, isn't he?

I'm thinking of the guy who had the skin condition.
Maybe that was Goldfinger, who someone mentioned in an
earlier post.

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/12/05 12:39 AM, gullible fool at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
  
  Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman,
 but
  the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
  while and a resident of my town before moving to
 ff
  with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
  thought she was 37 or so at the time.
 
 Different person.

  There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
  lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.
  
  Also, Goldfaber.
 
 Nat is still alive, isn't he?
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote:
 
  Enlightenment, connates, to me at least, an endpoint.
 
 Hmmm. Never got that., although unimpeded omniscience might seem
that way.


Well it you may have a broader view than many. Why label some initial
state with a high falutin term like enlightenment. It never made
sense to me. Maybe call it first light or groggy, but eyes are
open or ascended above sea level or less localized (instead of
cosmic) or release from prison to a half-way house with ankle
braclet instead of liberation.


 
 But even Rainbow body is a beginning since they have the ability to  
 divide into tens of thousands of different manifestations, all  
 capable of incarnating or affecting other dimensions--and not  
 necessarily within linear time.

Yes. My point about the Rainbow Body was not that it is an endpoint,
but that it is so far beyond the no I or other such experiences --
that its silly to think one has reached the pinnacle of human
development when they have that experience.  First light, groggy,
but eyes are open or less localized does not a Rainbow Body
immediately make(eth). 


 One person I spoke to on retreat a number of years ago claimed that  
 M. did a lecture on the absolute body based on the cognitions of  
 Brighu rishi where he described these various bodies. I wish someone  
 would present a transcript--which used to circulate.


I heard the Brighu lectures. At least some. If I am recalling
correctly, this was part of the discussions of immortality. A main
point was that a state could be reached where the body just keeps
renewing itself, and keeps changing. 

Which appears at least plausible given the knoweldge modern genetics
-- where there appear to be genes that at a certain age, turn off the
body's cells ability to continually rejuvinate -- and thus one gets
older and finally, as renewel gets too sluggish, dies. If the normal
continuously renewing ability of cells could be maintained, the body
could last much longer if not forever. I posted an article on rats
where this has been done -- to a degree.

The key was changing , changing changing. And M. emphasized if we
don't mind this changing , changing changing forever happening
happening. To me it implied some pretty different and unexpected
forms could be changed into.

M. mentioned Vyasa, for whom there is no record of his dropping his
body. He played aronnd the edges of terming Vyasa an immortal. And
being still here on earth. Himalayas I think was alluded to.

Soma was part of the story I think.

Someone on an India course asked, perhaps after a similar lecture, why
saints like Vyasa didn't visit? M. said something about such persons
would not visit a groups so unclean. Not a dis on the group, but more
an indication of the purity of the immortals.

I assume Baba-ji, of Yoganada stories, is an immortal like Vyasa. As
many possible residents of deep areas of himalayas and other places.

And ties to christ's resurrection of the body theme. Some in India /
Tibet say Jesus came there after the cross. Perhaps he became an
imortal and this explains, to a degree,  the experiences of his
presence and the whole Big Thing in Christianity about resurrection. 












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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread gullible fool
 
 I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy
 checking in with 
 FFL now and again.

Does that mean we have only 999 members?

--- scienceofabundance [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 I actually died a few years ago, but I still enjoy
 checking in with 
 FFL now and again.  Being dead is often boring but
 if you like to 
 surf the Web it can be pretty cool, because the
 connections are very 
 fast and we have very good anti-virus software. We
 are told here 
 that unconsciously wanting to have faster Web
 connections is the 
 principal reason for untimely deaths in the TMO. 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
   Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care
 to expand upon 
 it?
   
   I was struck a number of years by the legion of
 meditators, 
 sidhas,
   initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas,
 Mother Divines, 
 rajahs and
   other Movement potentates who had suffered
 untimely deaths. You
   mentioned several. After all, the number of
 hardcore meditators 
 is
   really quite small, just a few thousands, I
 would think. I have 
 worked
   for several organizations larger than that and
 cannot recall 
 anywhere
   near a comparable percentage of people in their
 40s or 50 
 croaking. That
   clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would
 like to see 
 reliable
   statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert
 Keith Wallace 
 would be
   interested in such a research topic??!!
   
   What if we began our own accounting of such
 deaths? My start is 
 the
   attached table. If you think it makes sense you
 might solicit 
 names
  on FFL.
   
 Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
 Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
 Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
 Bobby Warren   drowning   45
 Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
 Margaret Cooper   MS   60
 David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
 Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
 Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
 Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
 Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
 Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
  
  
  A few more come to mind
  
  Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
  Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
  Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
  Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
  Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
  
  swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
  
  cc girl at MIU?
  
  the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
  
  Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
  
  I remember a story of someone dying outside domes
 of heart attack, 
 the
  day after he saw top vaida guy
  
  A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who
 died of AIDS, some
  KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
  
  Seems like there are more that I have heard of but
 escape me at the
  moment.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

2005-10-12 Thread brahmachari108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
 TMO participants

This notion of premature and untimely death in a group so filled with the 
enlightened.

When someone's time is up is the only time death comes, so how is that untimely?

karma






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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 akasha_108 wrote:

B:

 No, rein them in.  Break them up.  They are too large and many 
 corporations are really a bunch of smaller groups anymore anyway.
 

...

 I would suspect that many a large corporation CEO would sigh a
relief at  having an almost impossible task of managing such a monster
taken away from and in its place a smaller more reasonable one to manage. 

A:
It may be. But thats an opinion. Not substantiated. Regardless, it in
itself is not a justification for breaking up a corporation.

I generally favor smaller companies -- as most reseach points out -
more innovation, higher growth etc. But Corps, who ere complying with
laws and regulations, are in a better postition to determine that than
you are I. And the scale of some industries is such that larger is
more competitive than smaller. 

 

A:
 I am not locked into any thinking. I do favor things which works. 
The capital markets (and the corporate structure enables them) are the
drivers of technology, innovation and growth. Not perfect, refinements
always needed. But its sad you can think of no other alternative than
to dissolve corporations and capital markets rather than reform them.
 
   
 
 Well you are a little wrong there.  Since I work in the tech field I 
 know that most of the innovation comes from small companies and 
 startups.  Later they may be gobbled up by a larger firm.

You are missing my point. I was refering to capital markets being
the drivers of technology, innovation and growth. The reference to
corps was that it would be hard to have capital markets without
corporations. It did not reference size of corps. I agree, studies
show more innivation comes from smaller companies. Most of which are
still corporations. 
 
 Right now their batting 
 average as far as the environment goes is not too good.
 
 
 
 And this is why they should be dissovled? Again thats a sad POV. 

 Again I said nothing about dissolving them.

A:
What are you proposing then? Limiting their size? Thus breaking them
up into many parts? In that case, the original form is dissolved. 


 A:
 Its primarily the governements fault, and ultimately the
 voters, that such laws, regulations and incentive mechanisms are
 weaker than optimal. 
 
 If you want better environmental track records by corporations, tax
 pollution, enact real vehicle efficiency standards -- including trucks
 and SUVs, tax gasoline (on the order of $2/gal), enact a BTU and
 carbon tax (which would affect electical, natural gas and coal
 production), tax the full lifescyle costs  of nuclear mining and
 waste, etc. In other words, incorporate the costs of pollution into
 the cost of things that pollute. As economists say, Internalize
theexternalities. 


 If the above were done, corporations would have excellent
environtal records. And the overall economy would be more efficient,
cleaner, and growing at a faster rate (allowing more funding for
things like educations and health.)

 
 I see nothing wrong with that idea.  However you would still have to 
 watch over the corporate gangsters.  Just letting them run wild will 
 plunder the planet into death.

We are all for law enforcement. And currently corps and CEO are
getting prosecuted to the extent of the current law. If current law
allows for corps to dump uncompensated costs on sociey, laws adn
regulations should be made stronger. Again, the problem is not
primarily a particular business structure or its size, but its a
problem of inadequate legislation and regulation to prevent cost
dumping / externalities dumping on society.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: the monkey story..

2005-10-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I'm talking about the research that found that once you taught 100
 monkeys a trick and they learn something then in a different place
 other monkeys learn the same thing much faster. some consciousness
 connection.
 
 anyone remembers the monkey story? I'm looking for a link to the story
 or maybe one of you can post it down here...
 
 thnkx



Turns out, they swim to the next island and teach the monkeys there.

Not being sarcastic. It's what the followup study found out.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: the monkey story..

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 Turns out, they swim to the next island and teach the monkeys there.
 
 Not being sarcastic. It's what the followup study found out.


Are you sure they aren't the flying monkeys Unc says fly out his ass?

(But I bet they are not in the mood to teach or learn anything)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 There was an electronics catalog a while back that
 used to list bogus items for sale, just to see if
 anyone was stupid enough to order them.  One of the
 items offered for sale was DEDs (Darkness Emitting
 Diodes).  They also listed WOM (Write Only Memory)
 chips.  Amazingly, they got lots of customers trying
 to order them.  :-)

Thats funny.

DEDs: Kind of a black hole on a chip. Just dont touch it

WOMs were what we used to call Seelisberg -- you can write and wrie to
it but never can retrieve any information from it.

I always wanted a reverse microwave -- which freezes things in seconds. 





 





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[FairfieldLife] Actions of Enlightened...Speculation at best

2005-10-12 Thread brahmachari108
Actions of enlightened beings, such speculation by the ignorant.

fly off the handle at the most (seemingly) minimal transgression and curse 
others, the 
greatest rishis of ancient lore would.

wailing at his loss of Sita, Rama would be seen 
He killed. As did Krishna.
Actions of an enlightened one, Would someone looking from a distance think 
these such?

fleecing his flocks.. mmy does

clearly seeing from the Sahasranama chakra down through the sushumna to the 
Muladhara, is the one who can determine.

Puppets we are... wanting to know.







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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Paula Youmans










Thank you for the suggested reading!  I have
not read this yet but I will J



I too was raised Christian (Catholic
actually) .

You would not believe how incredibly fast
I had to dump out my belief system just to get by



I look forward to reading this stuff!



Oh, btwpeople mentioned having a
master look at you and tell you where you have been or what it
was you reached?

Is that really possible? Where in the heck
do you find such people???

Not sure why that intrigues mebut
it does.













  Paula, have you read ³Collision with the Infinite² -
  http://tinyurl.com/exuwz
  I think you would enjoy it.
 
 Ditto on that. The story of a woman awakening
to the
 horror of the fullness of
emptiness.

Or the books of Bernadette Roberts; I think the
first
is The Experience of No-Self.
She's a Christian
contemplative who unexpectedly slipped into the
experience and had quite a struggle dealing with
it,
went through several stages, ending up in what
sounds
a lot like MMY's descriptions of Unity
consciousness.












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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread brahmachari108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   
In case you didn¹t notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.
   
   Although a few of us prefer to sit when interfacing
   with the group.
snip 
 All of the above.


Hands on the board, standing or sitting.
so much time spent composing smart replies
Serious mental masturbation..it is.










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RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Paula Youmans










Ive been slapped sillya few
times lol. The ego loss was just the tip of the iceberg.

Getting rather used to it by nowand
each journey has gotten easier.

I feel like through meditation that I have
gained some control, but I have
far to go. 



I dont mind one bitId
rather be on the ride then standing in the sidelines watching others have all
the fun ;)

Hell, when its over I just might go
again if I can find another ticket lol!



Yes, completely outside mind good way
to put it! I also like how in another post you mentioned the fullness of emptiness
J

















Seems like you got slapped hard when that I
went.
I lost it leaving the dome one afternoon.
Consciousness withdrew back into itself and there
was
no I or individuality. The mind
freaked-out, but
everything kept on working all by itself.
Consciousness apperceived itself as a
point. No
dimensions or time at all in that
point...no inside
or outside either! Completely outside mind.



















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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Thank you for the suggested reading!  I have not read this yet… but 
I will
 :-)
 
 I too was raised Christian (Catholic actually) ….
 
 You would not believe how incredibly fast I had to dump out my 
 belief system just to get by

I can imagine...sort of.

Yes, Roberts had the same problem.  It's been awhile
since I read it, but as I recall toward the end, when
things finally began to stabilize for her consciousness-
wise, she was also able to understand the Trinity and
other Catholic doctrine in a radically different way.
Certainly not anything the priests she tried to consult
would have recognized.

Have you ever read anything of Meister Eckhardt?  I
remember he was one of the few Catholic mystics she
found helpful.

 I look forward to reading this stuff!

Enjoy!  Tell us what you think after you do.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Seems like you got slapped hard when that I went.
 I lost it leaving the dome one afternoon.
 Consciousness withdrew back into itself and there was
 no I or individuality. The mind freaked-out, but
 everything kept on working all by itself.
 Consciousness apperceived itself as a point. No
 dimensions or time at all in that point...no inside
 or outside either! Completely outside mind.

Peter, just out of curiosity, did you happen to leave
a post to somewhat this effect on 
alt.meditation.transcendental some years ago?  I 
remember *somebody* did, but can't remember the name.
As I recall, the experience was relatively fresh
at the time the post was made, within a few months at
most.  Whoever it was didn't stick around, but the
post made quite an impression.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-12 Thread Bhairitu
akasha_108 wrote:

Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

akasha_108 wrote:



B:

  

No, rein them in.  Break them up.  They are too large and many 
corporations are really a bunch of smaller groups anymore anyway.




...

  

I would suspect that many a large corporation CEO would sigh a


relief at  having an almost impossible task of managing such a monster
taken away from and in its place a smaller more reasonable one to manage. 

A:
It may be. But thats an opinion. Not substantiated. Regardless, it in
itself is not a justification for breaking up a corporation.

I generally favor smaller companies -- as most reseach points out -
more innovation, higher growth etc. But Corps, who ere complying with
laws and regulations, are in a better postition to determine that than
you are I. And the scale of some industries is such that larger is
more competitive than smaller. 

 

A:
  

I am not locked into any thinking. I do favor things which works. 
  

The capital markets (and the corporate structure enables them) are the
drivers of technology, innovation and growth. Not perfect, refinements
always needed. But its sad you can think of no other alternative than
to dissolve corporations and capital markets rather than reform them.
  

 

  

Well you are a little wrong there.  Since I work in the tech field I 
know that most of the innovation comes from small companies and 
startups.  Later they may be gobbled up by a larger firm.



You are missing my point. I was refering to capital markets being
the drivers of technology, innovation and growth. The reference to
corps was that it would be hard to have capital markets without
corporations. It did not reference size of corps. I agree, studies
show more innivation comes from smaller companies. Most of which are
still corporations. 
 
  

Right now their batting 
average as far as the environment goes is not too good.
   



And this is why they should be dissovled? Again thats a sad POV. 
  


  

Again I said nothing about dissolving them.



A:
What are you proposing then? Limiting their size? Thus breaking them
up into many parts? In that case, the original form is dissolved. 


 A:
  

Its primarily the governements fault, and ultimately the


voters, that such laws, regulations and incentive mechanisms are
weaker than optimal. 
  

 
  

If you want better environmental track records by corporations, tax
pollution, enact real vehicle efficiency standards -- including trucks
and SUVs, tax gasoline (on the order of $2/gal), enact a BTU and
carbon tax (which would affect electical, natural gas and coal
production), tax the full lifescyle costs  of nuclear mining and
waste, etc. In other words, incorporate the costs of pollution into
the cost of things that pollute. As economists say, Internalize
  

theexternalities. 


  

If the above were done, corporations would have excellent
  

environtal records. And the overall economy would be more efficient,
cleaner, and growing at a faster rate (allowing more funding for
things like educations and health.)

  

I see nothing wrong with that idea.  However you would still have to 
watch over the corporate gangsters.  Just letting them run wild will 
plunder the planet into death.



We are all for law enforcement. And currently corps and CEO are
getting prosecuted to the extent of the current law. If current law
allows for corps to dump uncompensated costs on sociey, laws adn
regulations should be made stronger. Again, the problem is not
primarily a particular business structure or its size, but its a
problem of inadequate legislation and regulation to prevent cost
dumping / externalities dumping on society.

  

No offense but you sound like an armchair economist because I know 
several economists and they don't talk this way. ;-)  You sound more 
like someone who has bought into some kind of libertarian thinking.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  :)





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj

On Oct 12, 2005, at 4:02 PM, akasha_108 wrote:

 Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote:


 Enlightenment, connates, to me at least, an endpoint.


 Hmmm. Never got that., although unimpeded omniscience might seem

 that way.


 Well it you may have a broader view than many. Why label some initial
 state with a high falutin term like enlightenment. It never made
 sense to me.

Nor me. My lingering question having been a youngster when I started  
TM--as I strongly suspected we weren't being given the full picture-- 
was what did others have to say? Seven states of Consciousness? The  
Self resting in the Self? Eventually you get the answers. Look deep  
enough and you get the experiences too, not stuck on some initial  
experiences of clarity or bliss or the elements relaxing or calm or  
movement or presence.

 Maybe call it first light or groggy, but eyes are
 open or ascended above sea level or less localized (instead of
 cosmic) or release from prison to a half-way house with ankle
 braclet instead of liberation.

Yeah I remember after learning Sanskrit trying to find out what all  
the *real* words were for all the TM buzzwords and experiences.  
Cosmic Consciousness wasn't that cosmic at all, how disappointing  
and how enlightening. All it really means is Beyond the Fourth.

It was interesting after TM daze to hang out with yogis who had  
profound experiential knowledge and seeing all these students who  
thought they were enlightened. A real learning experience.



 But even Rainbow body is a beginning since they have the ability to
 divide into tens of thousands of different manifestations, all
 capable of incarnating or affecting other dimensions--and not
 necessarily within linear time.


 Yes. My point about the Rainbow Body was not that it is an endpoint,
 but that it is so far beyond the no I or other such experiences --
 that its silly to think one has reached the pinnacle of human
 development when they have that experience.  First light, groggy,
 but eyes are open or less localized does not a Rainbow Body
 immediately make(eth).



 One person I spoke to on retreat a number of years ago claimed that
 M. did a lecture on the absolute body based on the cognitions of
 Brighu rishi where he described these various bodies. I wish someone
 would present a transcript--which used to circulate.



 I heard the Brighu lectures. At least some. If I am recalling
 correctly, this was part of the discussions of immortality. A main
 point was that a state could be reached where the body just keeps
 renewing itself, and keeps changing.

 Which appears at least plausible given the knoweldge modern genetics
 -- where there appear to be genes that at a certain age, turn off the
 body's cells ability to continually rejuvinate -- and thus one gets
 older and finally, as renewel gets too sluggish, dies. If the normal
 continuously renewing ability of cells could be maintained, the body
 could last much longer if not forever. I posted an article on rats
 where this has been done -- to a degree.

Yeah we had talked at little bit about aglets and the new research on  
that. Ultimately IMO, something has to give. You may extend life to  
several hundred years but it now appears the downside to this is you  
will simply digest time more slowly. You will move very slowly under  
that type of life extension. The Naths had better ideas which even  
Marco Polo got to see.


 The key was changing , changing changing. And M. emphasized if we
 don't mind this changing , changing changing forever happening
 happening. To me it implied some pretty different and unexpected
 forms could be changed into.

 M. mentioned Vyasa, for whom there is no record of his dropping his
 body. He played aronnd the edges of terming Vyasa an immortal. And
 being still here on earth. Himalayas I think was alluded to.

My Patanjali guru said there were at least six Vyasas. Different  
people. Under Vaishnava influence, many works were attributed to  
Vyasa which never were his--most notably Badarayana.


 Soma was part of the story I think.

Oh ok. This sounds like it is part of the triple hut retreat thing  
(which was talked of but never materialized).


 Someone on an India course asked, perhaps after a similar lecture, why
 saints like Vyasa didn't visit? M. said something about such persons
 would not visit a groups so unclean. Not a dis on the group, but more
 an indication of the purity of the immortals.

 I assume Baba-ji, of Yoganada stories, is an immortal like Vyasa. As
 many possible residents of deep areas of himalayas and other places.

IIRC Babaji is Goraknath or an emanation thereof. The Naths were  
into the whole immortality trip.

 And ties to christ's resurrection of the body theme. Some in India /
 Tibet say Jesus came there after the cross.

I heard it was in the missing early, pre-saviour years, before the  
first book tour :-). Seriously, that place is in Kashmir.

 Perhaps he 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths...

2005-10-12 Thread peterklutz

It's perceived as untimely because these people cast of their mortal
coils way ahead of the statistically established life expectancy for
the society they live in

This perception is reinforced by the assumption that leading the life
of a meditator promotes longevity


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bmorry2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 
  LOTS OF Premature deaths by my calculations and of longtime dedicated 
  TMO participants
 
 This notion of premature and untimely death in a group so filled
with the enlightened.
 
 When someone's time is up is the only time death comes, so how is
that untimely?
 
 karma







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[FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
 Tom T:
 I have two friends who are Enlightened 

Spare egg writes:
And you know this because?

Tom T:
Takes one to know one. and as Rick insinuated I know a lot more than
two. More like 32 or so. I was referring to these specific two who had
the same experience independently of each other. Your milage may vary. Tom





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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

 In case you didn¹t notice, our membership now stands at 1,000.

Although a few of us prefer to sit when interfacing
with the group.
 snip 
  All of the above.
 
 
 Hands on the board, standing or sitting.
 so much time spent composing smart replies
 Serious mental masturbation..it is.
 

No time at all. Such responses occur in a flash as soon as the
triggering post is read. It takes longer to type than concieve. But
that too ..  talking seconds or a minute only.

It might seem like masterbation to whom the constantly orgasmic mind
.. it has not dawned.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
 No offense but you sound like an armchair economist because I know 
 several economists and they don't talk this way. ;-)  


Ah. you are the expert then.


 You sound more like someone who has bought into some kind of
libertarian thinking.

Nope. Everything I say I have worked through myself.
 






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[FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
Vaj writes:
Can you share anything further about his scale of enlightenment and  
how it goes?

The upper limit scale goes like this. The entire thing is way too long
to copy. Tom T

Sainthood 575 Very close to Enlightenment
Bliss 575+ Sat chit ananda
Enlightenment 600 Bliss replaced by peace, stillness, and silence
I Am 650 Awareness of the I as beingness or is-ness
Self 680 As Existence
Sage 700
Sage 740 Self as God Manifest
I (as a total statement)740 As the Ultimate Reality; the Supreme
Self 840 As beyond Existence or Nonexistence
Avatar 985
Buddahood 1000 At-oneness with God Manifest and Unmanifest
Krishna/Christ Consciousness 1000 At-oneness woith GOd Manifest and
Unmanifest
I 1100 as the Ultimate Reality beyond this dimension transcending
dimensions.
I 1200 As essence of Creation
Archangel 50,000+ 
Divinity Infinite 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108

Paula: 
 Ego loss is a tricky subject for me, because when it is gone.there
is no I to lose it. So in that regard, of course I have an ego lol.
When I disappeared there was no me to experience it.quite
literally. So did I lose ego? That is a good question. (Rubbing my
chin in deep thought).
 
 I will tell you the experience and let you decide. I was in water at
the time what I consider to be me began to disseminate. The next thing
I was aware of was the question who are you? The question reminded
me that I did, in fact, exist..as I was trying to remember who I was,
I felt the words I am. coming from my own mind and everything came
rushing back as I was
launched out of the water. 

A: Hi Paula, Welcome to the group. And thank you for sharing your
experience. Your post has triggered  several memories and questions.

As a kid, maybe starting at 8 or 10, I had a repeated inquiry -- I
was a curious sort of kid (as in inquisitive and odd). I kept looking
at the sky and visualizing another kid my age -- in Japan actually --
though I had not much connection there. I think it was my idea of as
different and foreign as could be (this was around 1960). 

And I kept asking myself, what makes me different from him. It was
clear that there were surface differences -- that was the point in
choosing someone in a vastly different culture. But I was after the
question of identity: what is it that makes me me different from
what makes him him. 

I would think about this alot, off and on, taking a few minutes to
quietly ponder, a short intermission among normal kid stuff. I knew at
the time this was an odd or tricky question. Particularly in that I
did not have a refined vocabulary and related concepts to sort out
some distinctions -- mind, intellect, memory. I had the same dizzy
feeling in thinking these thoughts -- as when later in years I first
viewed Escher drawings. Or thinking where does space end? Or what was
there before the universe wa created. All of these gave the same sort
of topsy-turvy, where does this start sort-of-feeling I had as the
10 year old thinking of my japanese friend. It was sort of a who is
the me that is wondering who is the him in him? paradox. 

I would often shake my head and laugh hard -- because it was really
funny -- and give up for a while. After some time it occurred to me
that Me and the inner part of the japanese boy Him were the same
and interchangable. And I would play a game with him, in my mind,
where we would switch.  Not switch outer roles -- my vision and
memories and all would still stay under the oak trees in California,
but We -- the background He and Me would switch.  It was so
awesome and funny -- to suddenly switch and yet everything was
exactly the same. Nothing happened. But ut was clear We switched

Upon reflection as an adult, I can think, that sounds like 'ego loss'
from a somewhat different angle from yours. A more 'ego separation' --
 the localized (in california) me, and the Me that was the same as
the boy in Japan that we could 'switch' at will.

Or maybe its just me as an adult, with strong ego mechnaisms that I am
unaware of, putting a precocious spin on a childhood flight of
imagination. Actually, I don't think that its the latter, in that I
don't see that blonde little kid under the California oaks as Me.
Its not me trying to puff my ego, in that that kid is not Me.
There is no link to Me other than its just a kid i used to know
pretty well, that is, i knew the inside of his mind and all.

In parallel fashion, the person who posted a year ago to this list as
Akasha is a person I know pretty well, have some familiarity with, but
is not Me -- any more than you are me -- in the social and physical
sense of me. 

So there has been an appreciation of various layers of Me/me for
some time, going back to childhood or kiddom. And a stronger identity
with the non-localized Me the part that I could switch, than the
outer social me. And the latter, in years or days or minutes is just
an image of some other guy, one of the guys, like my friends, but not
Me. 

But I did not experience that as the stark no I that you appear to
have or others have. And there was, through my youth and adulthood, a
me that desired, strove for things, got hurt, got angry, etc. I
could switch between Me and me to a degree. And in my mid teens
when I started TM, the sense or glow of Me was stronger and more
switchable with me when I wanted it. But other times, I was absorbed
in me and dealing with lots of me issues. The me clearly had
problems and constrants. Many have been dealt with over the years.
Others have not been so well. 

So the question is, does your sense of no I include an absence of
localized issues that affect you, distinct from You? In other
words, for example, if someone insults you, that is, someone -- or an
event -- pushes a really deep button, do you still feel insulted?
And that gets to the point, are there still any buttons to push that
can get you riled up enough so that you 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread Vaj

On Oct 12, 2005, at 8:45 PM, akasha_108 wrote:

 Or thinking where does space end? Or what was
 there before the universe wa[s] created.


Yes. I had the precise same thought processes. Frustrating as a 7  
year old with no one who could answer and adults increasingly  
projecting weirdness.

Were you able to meditate on this?

I would bet you also wondered what was there before you were  
born, no?



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[FairfieldLife] Re: 1,000 Members ....999 actually

2005-10-12 Thread off_world_beings
Only 999 since Peter Sutphen died.

Off World





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-12 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- andrasayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Nat is very much alive.
  
  Some to add to the untimely list:
  Denise Robatai
  Julia Fritz
  Sharon Welsh
  Tobi Finebloom
  Sabine (German lady)
  all were on Mother Divine.
  
  Skip Alexander
  Debbie Kockel
  the Purusha guy in the fire
 
 Sten, Rick's friend
 

Curly King.
George Harrison.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
Vaj, (and others)

This is an odd question, and perhaps is better dealt with off line.
Which I was going to do, but then thought others might have some
insights or information.

I just has a jusxtapostion of thoughts. In thinking about the japanese
boy I used to switch Mynesses with, per prior adjacent post, it
ocurred to me that he was asian, and I might have simply labeled him
as japanese because as a 10 year old in 1960, thats what he looked like. 

I would see his face. It was more an image of someone, but not as if
they were there in real time, live.  And I remember now, he wore a
white cloak sort of thing, with a white hoood, that had dark blue
embroidery, with symbols, around the edge of the hood. And maybe
similar dark blue vest or something under the hood. Maybe he wore
beads or somethin(s) areound his neck. And he had very short clipped
hair. Like all the kid monks I saw in thailand years later.

It never occured to me before, until now, that the cloak and hood
could be some sort of dress of some type monk order. And could be from
anywhere in asia, not just japan. 

I then remembered you talking about transmissions of non-duality or
some such broad experience, by various adepts that could reach
people far and away. And even many years later.

Does the switching experience I described correspond to any types of
standard transmissions that you are aware of? 

Does the clothng I described, white cloak, hood, dark bue symbol laden
embrodery ring a bell for any monastic or adept orders of children for
 which you are familiar? Either now/ 1960's or any time in the past?

Are there / were there any 10 year old adepts doing such transmissions?

Probably not. 

But it just seems to fit together in a way. Maybe just an unknown,
that is, unconscious (to me) ego mechanism flaming up to make me feel
spiritual.

Or maybe it was me in the past, transmitting to my future self, in
California, 1960. Ha ha, now thats funny. Then it was both Me and me.















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[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-12 Thread akasha_108
Vaj, (and others)

This is an odd question, and perhaps is better dealt with off line.
Which I was going to do, but then thought others might have some
insights or information.

I just haD a juxtapostion of thoughts. In thinking about the japanese
boy I used to switch Mynesses with, per prior adjacent post, it
ocurred to me that he was Asian, and I might have simply labeled him
as Japanese because as a 10 year old in 1960, thats what he looked
like to me.

I would see his face. It was more an image of someone, but not as if
they were there in real time, live. And I remember now, he wore a
white cloak sort of thing, with a white hoood, that had dark blue
embroidery, with symbols, around the edge of the hood. And maybe
similar dark blue vest or something under the hood. Maybe he wore
beads or somethin(s) areound his neck. And he had very short clipped
hair. Like all the kid monks I saw in thailand years later.

It never occured to me before, until now, that the cloak and hood
could be some sort of dress of some type monk order. And could be from
anywhere in asia, not just japan.

I then remembered you talking about transmissions of non-duality or
some such broad experience, by various adepts that could reach
people far and away. And even many years later.

Does the switching experience I described correspond to any types of
standard transmissions that you are aware of?

Does the clothng I described, white cloak, hood, dark bue symbol laden
embrodery ring a bell for any monastic or adept orders of children for
which you are familiar? Either now/ 1960's or any time in the past?

Are there / were there any 10 year old adepts doing such transmissions?

Probably not.

But it just seems to fit together in a way. Maybe just an unknown,
that is, unconscious (to me) ego mechanism flaming up to make me feel
spiritual.

Or maybe it was me in the past, transmitting to my future self, in
California, 1960. Ha ha, now thats funny. Then it was both Me and me.















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