[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: snip Apparently they had a lot of sex, her and the renunciate, Mia and MMY?? Apparently by whose account? No, Linda Pierce. Mia is a separate incident in the article. Dunno if she was kicked out. according to what she says here, she was not kicked out ... Nobody was asking whether Linda Pierce was kicked out. The question was whether *Mia Farrow* was kicked out for having turned MMY down, as Barry had explained to us all that she must have been. Judy was on one of her Gotta Get Barry quests, in other words. In other words, Barry was making stuff up again to suit his own fantasies, as is his wont. Mia Farrow left in disgust, as I remember. As I recall reading, he sent people after her to try to convince her to come back. Has anyone ever noticed that when a spiritual teacher dies, the ones who are always first in line to blast those followers who don't show enough piety or respect or 'class' in their remarks about him are the ones like Judy and Lawson who never even bothered to see him in real life. It's like suddenly they've got the chance to pretend to be what they never were when the teacher was alive. I would imagine that there will be quite a few more Gotta Get moments from the poseur from New Jersey before all of this ends...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, Barry was making stuff up again to suit his own fantasies, as is his wont. Mia Farrow left in disgust, as I remember. As I recall reading, he sent people after her to try to convince her to come back. OK, so Barry said she left in disgust. (true from what I have read.) And you said that MMY sent people after her to convince her to come back. (Also true.) What's your point? MMY had a real case on Mia, even after she shunned him. She left in disgust, he sent people after her (also documented in Nancy Cooke's book). So what? What's your point? Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. That's her whole act, and has been for 14+ years. It's why she brought up Andrew Skolnick recently; she did the same thing with him. It's like there is some mechanism triggered in Judy when someone disses the person she never knew or the organization she was never part of and never worked for to *pretend* that she had more involvement than she ever had by defending them. And the only way she can think of TO defend them is to get the person who said the things she doesn't like. So she homes in on nitpicks to try to prove* the person inaccurate, or she calls them a liar, or she does whatever character-assassination thing she can think of. It rarely works, except with fellow TBs. But it sure does provide an ongoing portrait of a crazy person for those of us in the audience. Watch for these Gotta Get moments, Geez. She's noted everything you've said as well, and within the next month will be going through her mental revenge list and get to your name as well, and sure enough there will be a Gotta Get Geez post, as there have been in the past. It's just all part of the psychopathy...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, that would be me. Value the practice, in its 20 min twice a day version, but reject what MMY did to his organization in the end. And what are your feelings about MMY? Do you believe he is an enlightened saint? If you believed that TM doesn't come from a holy tradition does it change anything for you? If it helps you sort out your feelings about all this, I was a TM teacher but never for a moment believed that Maharishi was enlightened and still don't. I stopped having anything to do with him or the TM movement 30 years ago, and feel now that TM is a cobbled-together beginner's technique of meditation with no particular uniqueness and that represents no tradition. That said, it was my introduction to the world of meditation and so thus was very valuable. Even as a cobbled-together technique I consider it valuable and easy to learn and thus if it were still avail- able for a reasonable price (say the $35 I spent to learn it), I would recommend it heartily. But it isn't, so one has to speak about TM as it is now, a technique available only to those who can afford it. Those who CAN afford it could get a great deal for their money elsewhere in the spiritual marketplace. Those who can't can find better techniques of meditation taught for free. In my opinion TM is a thing of the past, no longer a viable part of the spiritual world. It has been priced out of existence by the very person who thought it up. And I think that's sad.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: That MMY didn't, in the cases we are aware of, do this is completely irrelevant. Good on him I suppose. But it does not in any way lessen the pressure these women felt to go along with him. According to Barry, that was the greatest pressure they faced, the (nonexistent) threat of excommunication, the threat he made up. No Judith, this is not what Barry said. Read it again and think about it real carefully. Here's what he said again (since you snipped it): For the spiritual seeker to Just Say No means that she will be thrown out of the movement and lose her access to teachings that she treasures and to what she considers her only shot at enlightenment. To Just Say No would have meant excommunication, and every one of the women that Maharishi tried with knew it. You tell me how that's not what he said. How do you know the threat was nonexistent? MMY (as far as we know) didn't sack them for not screwing him. But what makes you so sure they did not feel the pressure? Because they knew of women who had rebuffed him and were not thrown out, and they did not know of any who had rebuffed him and *were* thrown out. BTW, where are these women in the movement today? Where are *any* women in the movement today?? (I have some answers to that one but can't go there yet.) Doncha get it yet, Geez? It has nothing to do with the women or the incidents or any of that stuff. It's all about Gotta Get Barry. That's the only thing that matters. Judy will keep harping on all of this until you chant the mantra she wants you to chant, Barry bad! Chant this several times a day and you'll be one of the good guys in her world. :-) :-) :-) Seriously, isn't it amazing how insane people think that they actually sound sane when they go on like this?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just wondering if any of you believe that MMY was fraud but still value his practice. Paul Mason said he is still pro-TM which is hard to believe considering the information on his website. Any thoughts welcome. Just occurred to me, perhaps Maharishi wanted to appear like that, to avoid the karma of being sanctified, or whatever...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 wvansant111@ wrote: I'm just wondering if any of you believe that MMY was fraud but still value his practice. Paul Mason said he is still pro-TM which is hard to believe considering the information on his website. Any thoughts welcome. Just occurred to me, perhaps Maharishi wanted to appear like that, to avoid the karma of being sanctified, or whatever... Uh, right. That's why he has all the faithful running around...uh...erecting giant phalluses to his memory all over the planet. :-) He was what he was...none of us will ever figure it out. And he did what he did...and none of us will ever figure that out, either. The only thing that anyone can say about him for sure is that he's dead.
[FairfieldLife] Well, gahanaa karmaNo gatiH!
As many of us know, the phrase gahanaa karmaNo gatiH (Unfathomable is the course of action) is from the Giitaa (IV 17). In my book, one of the more puzzling examples of that is the fact that A.Hitler survived several assassination attempts, as if Nature wanted to save him for some dirty work, and thereby move lots of bad karma onto his shoulders, so to speak...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letter to NPR re Commentary on Maharishi's Death
I have been surprised how much MMY's death has been in the newspapers here in Finland. The news was in the big nationwide Helsingin Sanomat in the net already 1 am on Wednesday 06. Feb. The next day I saw the news in two other newspapers I follow regularly. All of them were matter of fact, although focusing mainly on his relationship with the Beatles. Today in the local newspaper there was a beautiful picture from the funeral at Vlodrop. Irmeli --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From Jim Greenfield: I just sent the following email to NPR re: their comments today. Re: Scott Simon's commentary on death of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. NPR took the easy way with shallow remarks about Maharishi, characteristic of the American press's coverage of just about everything. If you'd done ten minutes of research you might have found information more appropriate to cover the passing of a great spiritual leader. You might have mentioned the universities Maharishi founded on two continents, or the fascinating seminars he held with the world's leading intellectuals, including innumerable Nobel laureates in physics, chemistry, biology, etc. involving profound discussions on the nature of the universe from perspectives ranging from astrophysics to Vedic philosophy. Or you might have mentioned his scholarship and books, or the millions of people who benefited from the healing, restorative effects of Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation, as documented by hundreds of scientific studies at major medical schools, universities, and research institutes throughout the world. But instead you went with snide comments about how much enlightenment you can buy with $300 million, and with the Beatles' rumors about sexual impropriety even though you yourself mentioned that Paul McCartney and George Harrison later repudiated the shameful story. This is not the first time in history a great spiritual leader has been derided at the time of death. There was a Rabbi in Israel who was once mocked with a crown of thorns. Is that the precedent you wish to follow, Scott? Not much of an obituary. Jim Greenfield Transcendental Meditation Teacher 15105 SW 119th Avenue Tigard, OR 97224 503-968-0499 HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Well, gahanaa karmaNo gatiH!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As many of us know, the phrase gahanaa karmaNo gatiH (Unfathomable is the course of action) is from the Giitaa (IV 17). In my book, one of the more puzzling examples of that is the fact that A.Hitler survived several assassination attempts, as if Nature wanted to save him for some dirty work, and thereby move lots of bad karma onto his shoulders, so to speak... I think your problem lies in the phrase Nature wanted, Card. What makes you think that Nature wants anything? It seems to me that the entire cosmos -- including your scenario with Hitler -- could function perfectly well based solely on the mechanics of karma: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So if an assassination attempt failed, it was because it was a feeble assass- ination attempt, not because Nature wanted it to fail.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Life On Mars
In a message dated 2/10/08 7:08:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Great series, with fine performances by John Simm as the guy who's become unstuck in time, by Philip Glenister as his superior in the 1973 police department, and by Liz White as a female 1973 cop (which in the Britain of the 70s is equivalent to being a secretary or someone to bring the tea) with a B.A. in Psychology who is the only person in that time that Sam can talk to. She doesn't believe him, but she tries to help anyway. Wonderful exercise in What is reality? He should have gone to teacher training then and saved his money from initiating during the Merv wave! **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48)
[FairfieldLife] Life On Mars
For those of you who enjoy quality television series, this one's a real gem. An oddball gem, but a gem. Unfortunately, you folks in the US probably won't be able to find this one at Netflix unless it carries Region 2 DVDs; this one was never released in the US. The basic scenario is about a modern-day (2006) British cop who, in the process of trying to track down a serial killer who may have abducted his own girlfriend, is accidentally hit by a car and knocked out. When he wakes up, it's 1973. He's wearing 1973 clothes and living in a shabby 1973 Manchester flat and showing up for work at a 1973 police station, where he is expected to solve crimes. The series is a little like Mad Men in that it deals with the cognitive dissonance what it's like to be a cop in 1973 vs. what it's like in 2006. But the cognitive dissonance is a lot deeper than that, because Sam doesn't have a clue what is really going on. Is he crazy and still in 2006 and hallucin- ating all of this? Is he in a coma in 2006 and dreaming all of this? Is he really here in 1973 and all this is real and dreaming/hallucinating the stuff about 2006? The only thing Sam knows is that his day-to-day life *in* 1973 *seems* to be real, and he is expected to get up every morning and solve crimes. So he does. Great series, with fine performances by John Simm as the guy who's become unstuck in time, by Philip Glenister as his superior in the 1973 police department, and by Liz White as a female 1973 cop (which in the Britain of the 70s is equivalent to being a secretary or someone to bring the tea) with a B.A. in Psychology who is the only person in that time that Sam can talk to. She doesn't believe him, but she tries to help anyway. Wonderful exercise in What is reality?
[FairfieldLife] Guru
My first sitting in meditation brought to me experience which I have found latter on TTC described as flash of Yoga… I experienced unbounded pure silence… flash of light… waves of bliss and love… From that very moment, 20 years ago, my life has been changed dramatically and that experience started to grow with every meditation… In one moment of my life I have found it occupied my heart and it wouldn't want to vanish… I realized that Guru seated himself in my heart. In movement I passed through different stages… but that realization never disappeared…even in moments when I was criticized by Maharishi and in situation when I was very far from him… My five year old daughter Narayani doesn't know much about Maharishi but in these days she is sad, crying and saying that her husband Shiva has left planet. All love to Maharishi…all love to Guru Dev! Jai Guru Dev
[FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
Really sums it up in my opinion. Thanks for posing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hangups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions. We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshiping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of the self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult. -- Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just finished reading a lot of the information on tm-free blog. my head it sort of reeling of course. I've had mixed feelings about TMO and Maharishi in general, but I have believed in the benefits of TM. If I put everything else aside - just the fact that I quit smoking, drinking and drugs afterwards was a pretty dramatic change. I had a highly addictive personality and was very set in my ways. No adults could get through to me. I had flunked out of school pre-TM. After I started doing TM, I went back to school and graduated cum laude. However, I would agree that meditating in large doses made me spaced out and dysfunctional. I'm just wondering in any of you believe that MMY was fraud but still value his practice. Paul Mason said he is still pro-TM which is hard to believe considering the information on his website. Any thoughts welcome. Well I think that really cuts to the heart of the issue! And basically the TMorg will fail because the teaching has been compromised, it is being taught as a Science but is in truth a Religion (Sanatana Dharma). Science will NEVER have the scope and breadth that Religion can and does. As such the TMorg will eventually fail, as success depends on ones ability to have faith (short of full realization) in a teaching which answers ALL of the students questions, which TM does NOT! With this lack of confidence the student will eventually be forced to move on. Even Maharishi Patanjali taught Yoga in the context of moral ethical values as its foundation, (Yama, Niyama). MMY was merely pandering to the Scientific community to spread Vedic culture across the world, which could be a good thing! It wasn't what he was doing that people found objectionable it was HOW!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wvansant111 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? Yep, that would be me. Value the practice, in its 20 min twice a day version, but reject what MMY did to his organization in the end. And what are your feelings about MMY? Do you believe he is an enlightened saint? Yes or no, depending on how you define those terms. Was he as enlightened or as saintly as a human being can possibly be? Probably not. Was he far along on that spectrum? Probably so. Judging from your yahoo ID, is your name William Van Sant? Don't I know you from someplace? No, I'd rather not say my first name at this point altho its probably obvious to anyone that knows me. But its not William and I'm female. I really do appreciate everyone's responses. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. Was that self deception or was there something to it? So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM practice. And I've learned that other people have whole other areas of hollistic knowledge that I know nothing about too. Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits for us, I came down off that higher than thou TM superiority. I don't preach to anyone. In fact, I had a friend who learned TM recently and I've warned her of some of the things to be careful of. I've intergrated my life more in general and its been healthy and good for me. I have had some wonderful experiences during meditation and typically feel good afterwards. One thing I notice the most after a good program is how dimensional and beautiful everything looks. My mind definitely feel clearer and more alert. I never doubted my practice too much but being open to reading what I did about the history behind it got me wondering...if it doesn't come from Guru Dev or a tradition than what is it? What exactly is it doing to the human mind? I don't have answers yet, just wondering. And of course the big question is...do I pass this on to my children and have them initiated. My son is five now. We've taught him a very open form of spirituality. We talk about God all the time and he says extremely insightful things about what he believes about God and the universe. He says he would like to meditate. Should we wait until he's a little older and more consenting? I really don't want to coerce him into anything but since we feel TM has helped us in our life, of course we want that for them as well. Since I can't be regular with 2 small kids running around anyway, I'm thinking maybe as an experiment I'd try ditching it for a month, and then doing it regularly for a month. Anyway, must run...living room dance party is ensuing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
On Feb 9, 2008, at 11:43 PM, feste37 wrote: It's OK. You held off for three days, which must have been quite an effort. I don't think you ever got MMY though. I never got any impression of sleaziness about him. Quite the opposite, actually. And watching the events currently going on in India reinforces my feeling that this was indeed the passing of a great man. But I think your feelings on the matter are sincerely held. I just wonder why TM didn't do for you (I seem to remember seeing that you were initiated once) what it did for so many people. My experience in the early years with TM left no room for doubt; the technique was doing what I was told it would do. That's why I've never cared much about the merits of the TM research, one way or the other. I know what I experienced. I actually enjoyed TM and had good results. However I had the same experience Curtis did--even though I was interested in the fuller knowledge, it was never given, just rehashed. I guess I was very fortunate at the time as I met a pundit-yogi in my home state who knew the whole path, of which TM was just an (important) beginning step. And rather than not getting the answers, he answered every single question I had and revealed the entire path of Patanjali and Sri Vidya in the process. Mantra yoga is a very profound path. I guess what set me off was the people who were damaged. As I said before in response Edg's question what others on other lists were saying, a list with little interest in things TM gave a long list of people they knew personally with all sorts of meditational disorders, mental and psychiatric disorders, etc. from the practice. Yet I can look at other mantra yoga practitioners and not see the same problems. That kinda clinched it for me. Actually from what I understand the Srivistava clan has a history of producing gurus of questionable caliber. Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just finished reading a lot of the information on tm-free blog. my head it sort of reeling of course. I've had mixed feelings about TMO and Maharishi in general, but I have believed in the benefits of TM. If I put everything else aside - just the fact that I quit smoking, drinking and drugs afterwards was a pretty dramatic change. I had a highly addictive personality and was very set in my ways. No adults could get through to me. I had flunked out of school pre-TM. After I started doing TM, I went back to school and graduated cum laude. However, I would agree that meditating in large doses made me spaced out and dysfunctional. I'm just wondering in any of you believe that MMY was fraud but still value his practice. Paul Mason said he is still pro-TM which is hard to believe considering the information on his website. Any thoughts welcome. The ridiculously named TM-Free blog is anything *but* TM-Free. It's all TM, all the time. Unhealthy-TM-Obsession Blog is a more accurate description. As for me, I no longer do TM, but I value what TM and living in Fairfield have done for me. I think TM is a great meditation technique, and I think it's a shame that the TMO no longer makes TM widely available for a reasonable price that most people could afford. My attitude about MMY is that his coming to the West greatly changed my life for the better, and I'm thankful to him for it. His rumored sex life and whether or not his teachings are Vedicly legit according to some tradition are not interesting or relevant to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also,seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. Do you care to share what some of these inconsistencies were?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Your post addresses the heart of the paradox regarding Maharishi. Many of the posters have had deep, profound spiritual experiences with Maharishi and/or his techniques, but his organization and his own behavior so often, especially over the last twenty years, was profoundly dysfunctional. There was a huge elephant in the living room of the TMO, but nobody knew how to talk about it and God forbid if you tried. Apostate!!! Heathen! Unstressor! I believe that everyone has to workout this paradox on their own. There is no set answer. Was Maharishi a saint? No. But was he Realized? Yes, profoundly and deeply. A blazing sun of Brahman. --- wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wvansant111 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? Yep, that would be me. Value the practice, in its 20 min twice a day version, but reject what MMY did to his organization in the end. And what are your feelings about MMY? Do you believe he is an enlightened saint? Yes or no, depending on how you define those terms. Was he as enlightened or as saintly as a human being can possibly be? Probably not. Was he far along on that spectrum? Probably so. Judging from your yahoo ID, is your name William Van Sant? Don't I know you from someplace? No, I'd rather not say my first name at this point altho its probably obvious to anyone that knows me. But its not William and I'm female. I really do appreciate everyone's responses. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. Was that self deception or was there something to it? So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM practice. And I've learned that other people have whole other areas of hollistic knowledge that I know nothing about too. Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits for us, I came down off that higher than thou TM superiority. I don't preach to anyone. In fact, I had a friend who learned TM recently and I've warned her of some of the things to be careful of. I've intergrated my life more in general and its been healthy and good for me. I have had some wonderful experiences during meditation and typically feel good afterwards. One thing I notice the most after a good program is how dimensional and beautiful everything looks. My mind definitely feel clearer and more alert. I never doubted my practice too much but being open to reading what I did about the history behind it got me wondering...if it doesn't come from Guru Dev or a tradition than what is it? What exactly is it doing to the human mind? I don't have answers yet, just wondering. And of course the big question is...do I pass this on to my children and have them initiated. My son is five now. We've taught him a very open form of spirituality. We talk about God all the time and he says extremely insightful things about what he believes about God and the universe. He says he would like to meditate. Should we wait until he's a little older and more consenting? I really don't want to coerce him into anything but since we feel TM has helped us in our life, of course we want that for them as well. Since I can't be regular with 2 small kids running around anyway, I'm thinking maybe as an experiment I'd try ditching it for a month, and then doing it regularly for a month. Anyway, must run...living room dance party is ensuing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it. In my opinion, this is *exactly* the same phenomenon that we saw yesterday with Stephen/Jack Ramp saying that he knew Maharishi and that thus it was simply not possible for him to have ever had sex. Rick very patiently pointed him to the Sexy Sadie file on FFL, a set of stories by the women themselves and by guys who spent a great deal longer at Maharishi's door than Stephen ever did. Rick did this several times. Will Stephen/Jack ever read that file? My bet is No. Never. In fact, he never even acknowledged here that he'd been told about it, if I'm not mistaken. To read the file would be to risk the possibility that what he knows to be true isn't. And he would never in a million years risk that. Instead he'll bluster and tell people that he knows the truth, and that his truth is really THE truth and that anyone who says differently is lying. And the whole time he's doing this he'll never read the file. He'll NEVER read the file. Similarly, the scientists in the TM movement who like to make outlandish claims about the beneficial effects that the ME produces will never, in a million years, read any studies that indicate that what they know isn't true. They can't. To do so would be to risk the possibility that what they know to be true isn't. And they would never in a million years risk that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Well, gahanaa karmaNo gatiH!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: As many of us know, the phrase gahanaa karmaNo gatiH (Unfathomable is the course of action) is from the Giitaa (IV 17). In my book, one of the more puzzling examples of that is the fact that A.Hitler survived several assassination attempts, as if Nature wanted to save him for some dirty work, and thereby move lots of bad karma onto his shoulders, so to speak... I think your problem lies in the phrase Nature wanted, Card. What makes you think that Nature wants anything? It seems to me that the entire cosmos -- including your scenario with Hitler -- could function perfectly well based solely on the mechanics of karma: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So if an assassination attempt failed, it was because it was a feeble assass- ination attempt, not because Nature wanted it to fail. You're prolly right, but I seem to recall he was saved a couple of times somewhat miraculously, like arriving to a yearly event 15 (or so) minutes late, having perhaps always before that been very punctual.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Life On Mars
MDixon6569 wrote: He should have gone to teacher training then and saved his money from initiating during the Merv wave! MDix, I'm guessing your joke was just a joke, but since I was one of the most successful initiators during the Merv era, I have to sober things up a bit for anyone who might have taken your joke literally. I ran the Napa, CA center and initiated over 1600 folks in that town of 50,000 -- over 3%. Of course, the crime rate stayed the same. And yeah, boy did I make a ton of dough. We were doing 75 people PER WEEK there for maybe a WHOLE MONTH before it all subsided fast. The average price was $100, so that was big money for me. But, I was driving a car that was given to me, had a $50 suit, lived in one bedroom of a center that rented for the equivalent of 2000 today's dollars, and I was in debt from scratching-by, TTC loans, before the Merv wave it, so the Merv wave only gave me about six months of ease before the center rent etc. ate everything up. Never even got a new suit out of the deal. So much for savings! I did manage to keep the center running for a year after the Oakland center died, so that's my claim to fame. I never even got a gold star for getting 3% of the town meditating. TMO really could have done so much better -- mundane businesswise -- to keep the morale in the ranks up by patting us on the back for the work we were doing in the field. Instead they stole my ATR credits! Talk about fucked up -- and I mean me, not the TMO. The TMO has always been so bottom-line gimme the money now or die that I should have gotten the message in my first year of teaching, but I hung in there as a TBer and got, well, got what I deserved, right? Follow the money. If an organization isn't letting its folks look at the books, then evil's afoot in almost every instance -- if anything, it says that the folks are not trusted and thus elitism is proved. Edg In a message dated 2/10/08 7:08:23 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Great series, with fine performances by John Simm as the guy who's become unstuck in time, by Philip Glenister as his superior in the 1973 police department, and by Liz White as a female 1973 cop (which in the Britain of the 70s is equivalent to being a secretary or someone to bring the tea) with a B.A. in Psychology who is the only person in that time that Sam can talk to. She doesn't believe him, but she tries to help anyway. Wonderful exercise in What is reality? He should have gone to teacher training then and saved his money from initiating during the Merv wave! **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak geezerfreak@ wrote: In other words, Barry was making stuff up again to suit his own fantasies, as is his wont. Mia Farrow left in disgust, as I remember. As I recall reading, he sent people after her to try to convince her to come back. OK, so Barry said she left in disgust. (true from what I have read.) And you said that MMY sent people after her to convince her to come back. (Also true.) What's your point? MMY had a real case on Mia, even after she shunned him. She left in disgust, he sent people after her (also documented in Nancy Cooke's book). So what? What's your point? Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. ROTFL!! If Barry really believes this, the self-deception involved is just stupefying. More likely, he's doing damage control to try to distract attention from his excommunication lie. That's her whole act, and has been for 14+ years. It's why she brought up Andrew Skolnick recently; she did the same thing with him. That *might* fly, Barry, with folks who don't know who Andrew Skolnick is, or those who never saw *your* interactions with Skolnick. It's like there is some mechanism triggered in Judy when someone disses the person she never knew or the organization she was never part of and never worked for to *pretend* that she had more involvement than she ever had by defending them. And the only way she can think of TO defend them is to get the person who said the things she doesn't like. Yow. If that were true, I'd never be able to post anything *else* here. snip Watch for these Gotta Get moments, Geez. She's noted everything you've said as well, and within the next month will be going through her mental revenge list and get to your name as well, and sure enough there will be a Gotta Get Geez post, as there have been in the past. Actually, the *vast* majority of my communications with geezerfreak have been responses (mostly very brief, and usually humorous) to *geezerfreak's* Gotta Get Judy posts, most of which had nothing to do with MMY or TM. This discussion of your lie about excommunication of women who rebuffed MMY is the first substantive one I've ever had with him. And while he and I have been disagreeing, neither of us has been trying to get the other. A pleasant surprise, actually.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Really sums it up in my opinion. Thanks for posing. What he said ^ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hangups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions. We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshiping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of the self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult. -- Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
[FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: Really sums it up in my opinion. Thanks for posting. What he said ^ Indeed. This is one of the shortest yet best descriptions of the reality of the spiritual process I've ever read. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hangups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions. We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshiping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of the self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult. -- Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Yes, the people here are exremely insightful. Hehe, you got it ! :-) You want knowledge and understand then you have come to the right place. Please pay particular attention to those that practised for a while and then dropped it because they are the ones that really know. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. Both Mother Divine and the socalled Purusha are in deep waters. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, Like I said; stay away from them if you want to be in good mental shape and a good mother. I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. It's just a result of you having been told it is beneficial. It is not, it's a total scam ! Any benefits from that nonsense is just your imaginations. Was that self deception Yes indeed ! or was there something to it? No of course not. Just ask anybody here. They have probably never been in such a building, but they have great expertize in all fields of life. So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. Yes, better stay away from TM for awhile, then you will be able to see everything much more clear ! I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Lucky you escaped, eh !? Very good ! It's your good karma for sure ! :-) Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. You must ! I am sure your writings are of great benefit and of interest for many people. You are a great soul, an old soul you know ! Can't wait to read it ! Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Schocking, was it ? Please write about it - we really want all the details ! If they are too shocking then you can always mail Rick Archer here on the side, he'll be glad to pass it on anonymously. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. This is just that thing: The ideals do not match reality. Very interesting observation. Better leave the whole thing alone, you will never experience anything remotely close to what is ideal anyway so why bother ? And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought Yes, yes. You are not as strange as you thought when you where in that cult you see. You are very normal ! (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM practice. They are just paying lip service. Amongst themselves they think you are completely off, only they'll never let you know that they Know. And I've learned that other people have whole other areas of hollistic knowledge that I know nothing about too. Yes. There is a vastness of knowledge out there. Get it all, or at least as much as you can ! You only perhaps use about 10% of your brain, remember !? Fill it up with as much information as possible. Read books ! Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits for us, I came down off that higher than thou TM superiority. Disgusting, truly very, very bad. They think they are more evolved than others, don't they ?! It's sad - we are all equal, old souls. I don't preach to anyone. In fact, I had a friend who learned TM recently and I've warned her of some of the things to be careful of. YES ! Very, very important. Do not let her make own experiences. Please tell her all the strange things you have heard, the more the better and do not hold anything back. If you heard some rumours please pass them along adding some extra flavors of your own. Better still; tell the person to take a break from TM altogether ! It is really not good that she is innoscent much longer now. And you can help her ! In the long run she will thank you for it ! I've intergrated my life more in general and its been healthy and good for me. I have had some wonderful experiences during meditation and typically feel good afterwards. One thing I notice the most after a good program is how dimensional and beautiful everything looks. My mind definitely feel clearer and more alert. I never doubted my practice too much but being open to reading what I did about the history behind it got me wondering...if it doesn't come from Guru Dev or a tradition than what is it? What exactly is it doing to the human mind? I don't
[FairfieldLife] Re: Uniform Dress in Suits for Movement Leaders
Thanks for the reply and the guess, but that's not it and I'm asking for facts about the current dress code if there is one. The story about the blue suit, white shirt and red tie come from MMY's comments about what Jerry Jarvis was wearing one day as MMY was trying to explain to all the hippie-burnouts how to dress in a business professional manner instead of tie-dyes, jeans, smelly sneakers and bad breath. You're right that they took it over the edge; I, too, dressed in a blue suit, white shirt and red tie for a bit. But that has nothing to do with current practices or guidelines. Thanks for a nice try, though. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sticheau sticheau@ wrote: I'm curious, is there a designated brand, color, material, cut, # of buttons, or any other specification for all these light colored suits I see all the men wearing? Light grey or tan or beige? Armani? Wal-Mart? Brooks Brothers? Custom cut? What's the inside scoop on the suits, please. Thanks. When I worked for the movement someone told me the origin of the old acceptable dress code, apparently someone just turned up one day in a blue suit with white shirt and red tie, Maharishi says that looks good and by the end of the week everyone was dressed like it. That's the origin, a desperate need for approval.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. The fascinating thing to me is that she claims that this isn't what she's doing. She gets so caught up in the moment of each new attempt to demonize someone who has said something she doesn't like that she can't see the overall pattern -- that 80% of what she does on this forum, and has ALWAYS done on this forum, is to demonize people who have said something that she doesn't like. In other words, she gets so focused on the tree that she's trying to cut down at the moment that she fails to notice the forest of trees she has been system- atically trying to cut down for over 14 years now. And that pretty much everyone else here has watched her try to cut down. THEY are aware of her patterns, but Judy seems not to be. It's a pretty bizarre psychosis in my opinion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. Except that I rarely do this without *also* showing why a particular claim made by person A is false, independently of any unfavorable information about A.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The fascinating thing to me is that she claims that this isn't what she's doing. She gets so caught up in the moment of each new attempt to demonize someone who has said something she doesn't like that she can't see the overall pattern -- that 80% of what she does on this forum, and has ALWAYS done on this forum, is to demonize people who have said something that she doesn't like. Sez Barry, demonizing me for having called attention to his lie about excommunication of women who have rebuffed MMY. Barry Wright, Master of Projection. If you were to look at the record of Barry's posts in our exchanges, what you'd find is that he almost never actually addresses any argument I'm making; instead, he finds a way to demonize me for making it. His current post, and his previous ones on this topic today, are perfect examples.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Neti... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your post addresses the heart of the paradox regarding Maharishi. Many of the posters have had deep, profound spiritual experiences with Maharishi and/or his techniques, but his organization and his own behavior so often, especially over the last twenty years, was profoundly dysfunctional. There was a huge elephant in the living room of the TMO, but nobody knew how to talk about it and God forbid if you tried. Apostate!!! Heathen! Unstressor! I believe that everyone has to workout this paradox on their own. There is no set answer. Was Maharishi a saint? No. But was he Realized? Yes, profoundly and deeply. A blazing sun of Brahman. --- wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wvansant111 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? Yep, that would be me. Value the practice, in its 20 min twice a day version, but reject what MMY did to his organization in the end. And what are your feelings about MMY? Do you believe he is an enlightened saint? Yes or no, depending on how you define those terms. Was he as enlightened or as saintly as a human being can possibly be? Probably not. Was he far along on that spectrum? Probably so. Judging from your yahoo ID, is your name William Van Sant? Don't I know you from someplace? No, I'd rather not say my first name at this point altho its probably obvious to anyone that knows me. But its not William and I'm female. I really do appreciate everyone's responses. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. Was that self deception or was there something to it? So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM practice. And I've learned that other people have whole other areas of hollistic knowledge that I know nothing about too. Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits for us, I came down off that higher than thou TM superiority. I don't preach to anyone. In fact, I had a friend who learned TM recently and I've warned her of some of the things to be careful of. I've intergrated my life more in general and its been healthy and good for me. I have had some wonderful experiences during meditation and typically feel good afterwards. One thing I notice the most after a good program is how dimensional and beautiful everything looks. My mind definitely feel clearer and more alert. I never doubted my practice too much but being open to reading what I did about the history behind it got me wondering...if it doesn't come from Guru Dev or a tradition than what is it? What exactly is it doing to the human mind? I don't have answers yet, just wondering. And of course the big question is...do I pass this on to my children and have them initiated. My son is five now. We've taught him a very open form of spirituality. We talk about God all the time and he says extremely insightful things about what he believes about God and the universe. He says he would like to meditate. Should we wait until he's a little older and more consenting? I really don't want to coerce him into anything but since we feel TM has helped us in our life, of course we want that for them as well. Since I can't be regular with 2 small kids running around anyway, I'm thinking maybe as an experiment I'd try
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it. In my opinion, this is *exactly* the same phenomenon that we saw yesterday with Stephen/Jack Ramp saying that he knew Maharishi and that thus it was simply not possible for him to have ever had sex. Rick very patiently pointed him to the Sexy Sadie file on FFL, a set of stories by the women themselves and by guys who spent a great deal longer at Maharishi's door than Stephen ever did. Rick did this several times. Will Stephen/Jack ever read that file? My bet is No. Never. In fact, he never even acknowledged here that he'd been told about it, if I'm not mistaken. FWIW, he was reading and posting from his BlackBerry all day yesterday. It may be difficult to read a long file like the Sexie Sadie file on a BlackBerry. I'd suggest we give him a few more days before we decide he's never going to read it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Well, gahanaa karmaNo gatiH!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: As many of us know, the phrase gahanaa karmaNo gatiH (Unfathomable is the course of action) is from the Giitaa (IV 17). In my book, one of the more puzzling examples of that is the fact that A.Hitler survived several assassination attempts, as if Nature wanted to save him for some dirty work, and thereby move lots of bad karma onto his shoulders, so to speak... I think your problem lies in the phrase Nature wanted, Card. What makes you think that Nature wants anything? It seems to me that the entire cosmos -- including your scenario with Hitler -- could function perfectly well based solely on the mechanics of karma: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Actually, he said AS IF Nature wanted... A universe that functioned based solely on the mechanics of karma would look no different from one in which Nature wanted things to happen the way they do. Hence, as if. So if an assassination attempt failed, it was because it was a feeble assass- ination attempt, not because Nature wanted it to fail. Or because Nature wanted it to be feeble so it would fail, of course.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. Except that I rarely do this without *also* showing why a particular claim made by person A is false, independently of any unfavorable information about A. R E A D M Y L I P S : I T D O E S N ' T M A T T E R * H O W * Y O U D E M O N I Z E T H E P E O P L E Y O U D E M O N I Z E . A L L T H A T M A T T E R S I S * T H A T * Y O U D E M O N I Z E T H E M . Y O U R F I R S T I M P U L S E I S * A L W A Y S * T O T R Y T O D E M O N I Z ET H E M . T H A T ' S J U S T W H A T Y O U D O . I T ' S * A L L * T H A T Y O U D O . E V E R Y O N E H E R E K N O W S T H I S E X C E P T Y O U . T H A T I S W H A T M A K E S T H E M S A N E A N D Y O U I N S A N E .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Uniform Dress in Suits for Movement Leaders
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sticheau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the reply and the guess, but that's not it and I'm asking for facts about the current dress code if there is one. The story about the blue suit, white shirt and red tie come from MMY's comments about what Jerry Jarvis was wearing one day as MMY was trying to explain to all the hippie-burnouts how to dress in a business professional manner instead of tie-dyes, jeans, smelly sneakers and bad breath. You're right that they took it over the edge; I, too, dressed in a blue suit, white shirt and red tie for a bit. But that has nothing to do with current practices or guidelines. Thanks for a nice try, though. I haven't been part of the TM movement for over 30 years now, and have no idea what the origin was of the dress code you're referring to, which obviously IS one. What I find fascinating is how similar it is to Maharishi's ideas of what Vedic buildings should look like. If you analyze the designs he likes for buildings, especially those early designs for TM towns or administration buildings, they're all BRITISH, not Indian. They come straight from the era in which the British were running India. Now look at the white suits. Same thing. While pretending to be interested in reviving the Vedic era, what Maharishi has recreated is the Colonial Era, in which foreigners took over and ran India. Just a theory... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sticheau sticheau@ wrote: I'm curious, is there a designated brand, color, material, cut, # of buttons, or any other specification for all these light colored suits I see all the men wearing? Light grey or tan or beige? Armani? Wal-Mart? Brooks Brothers? Custom cut? What's the inside scoop on the suits, please. Thanks. When I worked for the movement someone told me the origin of the old acceptable dress code, apparently someone just turned up one day in a blue suit with white shirt and red tie, Maharishi says that looks good and by the end of the week everyone was dressed like it. That's the origin, a desperate need for approval.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: Really sums it up in my opinion. Thanks for posting. What he said ^ Indeed. This is one of the shortest yet best descriptions of the reality of the spiritual process I've ever read. And the amusing thing is that it's pretty much exactly the same as what Rory and Jim Flanegan were saying before Barry and others drove them off the forum for saying it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: All the promises we have heard are pure seduction. We expect the teachings to solve all our problems; we expect to be provided with magical means to deal with our depressions, our aggressions, our sexual hangups. But to our surprise we begin to realize that this is not going to happen. It is very disappointing to realize that we must work on ourselves and our suffering rather than depend upon a savior or the magical power of yogic techniques. It is disappointing to realize that we have to give up our expectations rather than build on the basis of our preconceptions. We must allow ourselves to be disappointed, which means the surrendering of me-ness, my achievement. We would like to watch ourselves attain enlightenment, watch our disciples celebrating, worshiping, throwing flowers at us, with miracles and earthquakes occurring and gods and angels singing and so forth. This never happens. The attainment of enlightenment from ego's point of view is extreme death, the death of the self, the death of me and mine, the death of the watcher. It is the ultimate and final disappointment. Treading the spiritual path is painful. It is a constant unmasking, peeling off of layer after layer of masks. It involves insult after insult. -- Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
[FairfieldLife] Maharishi's remains reach Allahabad for Funeral
Maharishi's remains reach Allahabad for Funeral from The Times of India 10 Feb 2008 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Mahesh_Yogis_mortal_remains_reach_Allahabad/articleshow/2770358.cms Mahesh Yogi's mortal remains reach Allahabad ALLAHABAD: The body of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, kept in a white coffin and surrounded by pundits chanting Vedic mantras, was on Saturday brought to the city that was once his home for last rites. The cremation would take place on Monday. The truck carrying the coffin entered the city followed by a carcade of over 50 vehicles from Varanasi. The coffin was brought on a chartered plane from Holland where the Maharishi attained mahasamadhi on Tuesday. Scores of Western followers of the yogi also attended the procession. His successor Dr Tony Nader, a neurosurgeon, who is adorned with the title of Maharajadhiraj Raja Ram, was present. His disciples like Hollywood celebrity David Lynch and stress management guru Deepak Chopra are also scheduled to arrive in the city. The body would be kept for two days in a 'sadhana' (meditation) posture in a specially designed glass chamber for darshan. PS: this can be seen right now on http://maharishichannel.org CHANNEL 3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Wvansant111, In case you don't know, nablusoss1008 is one of the cruelest, sludge-mouthed, deeply flawed, hateful, serial concept killers on the Web. He probably dresses like a Goth, but there's no mistaking that he attacks like a Hun. I found your insights open and honest. Please don't let nablusoss1008 (often referred to as Knob/Nab) mean anything at all to you. Now, if you just give me a few minutes I'll work up a warning about just about everyone who posts here -- ahem. Still, Knob is such a feral energy I had to write. There's other rats, gnats and lice here, so hang in there. It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. I'm still learning how to pick my battles here, so I cannot tell you it'll be easy. I liked your energy, so I'm hoping to stick around. I had four kids, so I know some of your reality. Now, here's the sad part: some of what Knob said below is probably true, but he uses truth to hurt feelings and shame folks instead of using it for opening up to deeper intimacy and true communication. Take care. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 wvansant111@ wrote: I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Yes, the people here are exremely insightful. Hehe, you got it ! :-) You want knowledge and understand then you have come to the right place. Please pay particular attention to those that practised for a while and then dropped it because they are the ones that really know. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. Both Mother Divine and the socalled Purusha are in deep waters. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, Like I said; stay away from them if you want to be in good mental shape and a good mother. I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. It's just a result of you having been told it is beneficial. It is not, it's a total scam ! Any benefits from that nonsense is just your imaginations. Was that self deception Yes indeed ! or was there something to it? No of course not. Just ask anybody here. They have probably never been in such a building, but they have great expertize in all fields of life. So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. Yes, better stay away from TM for awhile, then you will be able to see everything much more clear ! I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Lucky you escaped, eh !? Very good ! It's your good karma for sure ! :-) Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. You must ! I am sure your writings are of great benefit and of interest for many people. You are a great soul, an old soul you know ! Can't wait to read it ! Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Schocking, was it ? Please write about it - we really want all the details ! If they are too shocking then you can always mail Rick Archer here on the side, he'll be glad to pass it on anonymously. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. This is just that thing: The ideals do not match reality. Very interesting observation. Better leave the whole thing alone, you will never experience anything remotely close to what is ideal anyway so why bother ? And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought Yes, yes. You are not as strange as you thought when you where in that cult you see. You are very normal ! (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM practice. They are just paying lip service. Amongst themselves they think you are completely off, only they'll never let you know that they Know. And I've learned that other people have whole other areas of hollistic knowledge that I know nothing about too. Yes. There is a vastness of knowledge out there. Get it all, or at least as much as you can ! You only perhaps use about 10% of your brain, remember !? Fill it up with as much information as possible. Read books ! Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
On Behalf Of wvansant111 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 11:19 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? I've just finished reading a lot of the information on tm-free blog. my head it sort of reeling of course. I've had mixed feelings about TMO and Maharishi in general, but I have believed in the benefits of TM. If I put everything else aside - just the fact that I quit smoking, drinking and drugs afterwards was a pretty dramatic change. I had a highly addictive personality and was very set in my ways. No adults could get through to me. I had flunked out of school pre-TM. After I started doing TM, I went back to school and graduated cum laude. Accounts like this assume causality. It might be, and maybe its not. One point does not make a trend. However, when we have a theory in mind, and the single data point fits, its absolutely clear. In the eyes of the beholder, only. Lots of people go through dramatic life changes, including stopping drugs and focussing on studies. Most such cases have nothing to do with TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. Nice to welcome a newcomer Edg. But black hearted creeps? I can't think of a singe person I would characterize that way, let alone a plurality of them! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wvansant111, In case you don't know, nablusoss1008 is one of the cruelest, sludge-mouthed, deeply flawed, hateful, serial concept killers on the Web. He probably dresses like a Goth, but there's no mistaking that he attacks like a Hun. I found your insights open and honest. Please don't let nablusoss1008 (often referred to as Knob/Nab) mean anything at all to you. Now, if you just give me a few minutes I'll work up a warning about just about everyone who posts here -- ahem. Still, Knob is such a feral energy I had to write. There's other rats, gnats and lice here, so hang in there. It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. I'm still learning how to pick my battles here, so I cannot tell you it'll be easy. I liked your energy, so I'm hoping to stick around. I had four kids, so I know some of your reality. Now, here's the sad part: some of what Knob said below is probably true, but he uses truth to hurt feelings and shame folks instead of using it for opening up to deeper intimacy and true communication. Take care. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 wvansant111@ wrote: I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Yes, the people here are exremely insightful. Hehe, you got it ! :-) You want knowledge and understand then you have come to the right place. Please pay particular attention to those that practised for a while and then dropped it because they are the ones that really know. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. Both Mother Divine and the socalled Purusha are in deep waters. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, Like I said; stay away from them if you want to be in good mental shape and a good mother. I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. It's just a result of you having been told it is beneficial. It is not, it's a total scam ! Any benefits from that nonsense is just your imaginations. Was that self deception Yes indeed ! or was there something to it? No of course not. Just ask anybody here. They have probably never been in such a building, but they have great expertize in all fields of life. So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. Yes, better stay away from TM for awhile, then you will be able to see everything much more clear ! I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Lucky you escaped, eh !? Very good ! It's your good karma for sure ! :-) Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. You must ! I am sure your writings are of great benefit and of interest for many people. You are a great soul, an old soul you know ! Can't wait to read it ! Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Schocking, was it ? Please write about it - we really want all the details ! If they are too shocking then you can always mail Rick Archer here on the side, he'll be glad to pass it on anonymously. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. This is just that thing: The ideals do not match reality. Very interesting observation. Better leave the whole thing alone, you will never experience anything remotely close to what is ideal anyway so why bother ? And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought Yes, yes. You are not as strange as you thought when you where in that cult you see. You are very normal ! (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and accepting of my TM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Guilty? WTF? Of what? Is a seriously uptight prude revealing himself? Sex with a like minded consenting adult is a good thing where I come from...the planet earth. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lawson wrote: And you have NO idea if they felt pressured, assuming they were in a position to feel anything at all about this rumored scenario. From what I've read, the TMO was and is ruled by the libido. Many of the male teachers at MUM have been accused of having sexual relations with women teachers and students. Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Apparently most TTC, ATC, and CCPs are hotbeds of sexual promiscuity. According to Ned Wynn and Barry Wright, they used to drink alcohol and screw over dozens of female students, sometimes two in one night. So, I wouldn't be surprised if these same TMO teachers used to recruit female students for the Marshy. But, my guess is that the female students probably tried to seduce the Marshy, not the other way around. What amazes me is the extent that the Marshy rejected the advances of all the women. But then again, who'd want to sleep with a TMO teacher on TTC, ATC, or CCP, male or female, unless you were really, really desperate? It just doesn't make any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it. In my opinion, this is *exactly* the same phenomenon that we saw yesterday with Stephen/Jack Ramp saying that he knew Maharishi and that thus it was simply not possible for him to have ever had sex. Rick very patiently pointed him to the Sexy Sadie file on FFL, a set of stories by the women themselves and by guys who spent a great deal longer at Maharishi's door than Stephen ever did. Rick did this several times. Will Stephen/Jack ever read that file? My bet is No. Never. In fact, he never even acknowledged here that he'd been told about it, if I'm not mistaken. FWIW, he was reading and posting from his BlackBerry all day yesterday. It may be difficult to read a long file like the Sexie Sadie file on a BlackBerry. I'd suggest we give him a few more days before we decide he's never going to read it. Jack Ramp unsubscribed this morning. And, coldbluiceman unsubscribed yesterday... his mind must have gone all splodey when MMY's body did, in fact, get sent to India.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
Jack Ramp unsubscribed this morning. And, coldbluiceman unsubscribed yesterday. Great, now we'll never get our answer to the white suit question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it. In my opinion, this is *exactly* the same phenomenon that we saw yesterday with Stephen/Jack Ramp saying that he knew Maharishi and that thus it was simply not possible for him to have ever had sex. Rick very patiently pointed him to the Sexy Sadie file on FFL, a set of stories by the women themselves and by guys who spent a great deal longer at Maharishi's door than Stephen ever did. Rick did this several times. Will Stephen/Jack ever read that file? My bet is No. Never. In fact, he never even acknowledged here that he'd been told about it, if I'm not mistaken. FWIW, he was reading and posting from his BlackBerry all day yesterday. It may be difficult to read a long file like the Sexie Sadie file on a BlackBerry. I'd suggest we give him a few more days before we decide he's never going to read it. Jack Ramp unsubscribed this morning. And, coldbluiceman unsubscribed yesterday... his mind must have gone all splodey when MMY's body did, in fact, get sent to India.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Curtis wrote: Sex with a like minded consenting adult is a good thing where I come from...the planet earth. At a TTC, ATC, or CCP? WTF? From what I've read, the TMO was and is ruled by the libido. Many of the male teachers at MUM have been accused of having sexual relations with women teachers and students. Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Apparently most TTC, ATC, and CCPs are hotbeds of sexual promiscuity. According to Ned Wynn and Barry Wright, they used to drink alcohol and screw over dozens of female students, sometimes two in one night. So, I wouldn't be surprised if these same TMO teachers used to recruit female students for the Marshy. But, my guess is that the female students probably tried to seduce the Marshy, not the other way around. What amazes me is the extent that the Marshy rejected the advances of all the women. But then again, who'd want to sleep with a TMO teacher on TTC, ATC, or CCP, male or female, unless you were really, really desperate? It just doesn't make any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Okay, so I went over the top. Sue me. Black hearted creeps was me being a black-hearted-creep for enough time to type my responses -- so, yeah, I hit the tar baby and now I got a black fist. Ick. I'll try harder, Curtis. Still, there's Off to consider, but with a little lithium that guy might be instantly transformed. Oh, I don't know muchalotta about anything. RATS! There be a goody deal of smacking-faces here, and I get tired of it even when I'm doing it, but maybe if I get my meditation checked, I'll be transformed, eh? Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. Nice to welcome a newcomer Edg. But black hearted creeps? I can't think of a singe person I would characterize that way, let alone a plurality of them! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Wvansant111, In case you don't know, nablusoss1008 is one of the cruelest, sludge-mouthed, deeply flawed, hateful, serial concept killers on the Web. He probably dresses like a Goth, but there's no mistaking that he attacks like a Hun. I found your insights open and honest. Please don't let nablusoss1008 (often referred to as Knob/Nab) mean anything at all to you. Now, if you just give me a few minutes I'll work up a warning about just about everyone who posts here -- ahem. Still, Knob is such a feral energy I had to write. There's other rats, gnats and lice here, so hang in there. It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. I'm still learning how to pick my battles here, so I cannot tell you it'll be easy. I liked your energy, so I'm hoping to stick around. I had four kids, so I know some of your reality. Now, here's the sad part: some of what Knob said below is probably true, but he uses truth to hurt feelings and shame folks instead of using it for opening up to deeper intimacy and true communication. Take care. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 wvansant111@ wrote: I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Yes, the people here are exremely insightful. Hehe, you got it ! :-) You want knowledge and understand then you have come to the right place. Please pay particular attention to those that practised for a while and then dropped it because they are the ones that really know. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. Both Mother Divine and the socalled Purusha are in deep waters. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, Like I said; stay away from them if you want to be in good mental shape and a good mother. I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. It's just a result of you having been told it is beneficial. It is not, it's a total scam ! Any benefits from that nonsense is just your imaginations. Was that self deception Yes indeed ! or was there something to it? No of course not. Just ask anybody here. They have probably never been in such a building, but they have great expertize in all fields of life. So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. Yes, better stay away from TM for awhile, then you will be able to see everything much more clear ! I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Lucky you escaped, eh !? Very good ! It's your good karma for sure ! :-) Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. You must ! I am sure your writings are of great benefit and of interest for many people. You are a great soul, an old soul you know ! Can't wait to read it ! Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Schocking, was it ? Please write about it - we really want all the details ! If they are too shocking then you can always mail Rick Archer here on the side, he'll be glad to pass it on anonymously. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Judy has been beat upon by me to an extreme degree, and yet I see not the least intent on her part to start a war with me and nitpick everything I post. Whatever Turq did to get her angry to this degree that she must hit the least aspect of Turq's presentation has to be something worse than I've posted about her, and I tried my damnedest to get under her radar and really piss her off. She's not out of control; she's got reasons; and she's pushed my issues to a higher clarity more often than not. She'll hang in there until you're exhausted and just want to stop thinking about an issue. If I ran an ashram, she'd be the last one I'd kick out. That said, if Judy would just drop the bash-Turq thing, and the bash-Vaj thing, these three folks could be shining stars of insight here if they'd start really striving for intimacy and nurturing each other's contributions from their significantly different POVs/lives. But that's very very hard. I don't know if I would be able to keep it together emotionally to handle the heat in any kitchen where these three were being honest. Toss in Curtis playing a guitar and wailing from the depths of his cosmic heart, pepper it with Marek's blurbifying, and I'm going to get really quiet and just enjoy the show. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. The fascinating thing to me is that she claims that this isn't what she's doing. She gets so caught up in the moment of each new attempt to demonize someone who has said something she doesn't like that she can't see the overall pattern -- that 80% of what she does on this forum, and has ALWAYS done on this forum, is to demonize people who have said something that she doesn't like. In other words, she gets so focused on the tree that she's trying to cut down at the moment that she fails to notice the forest of trees she has been system- atically trying to cut down for over 14 years now. And that pretty much everyone else here has watched her try to cut down. THEY are aware of her patterns, but Judy seems not to be. It's a pretty bizarre psychosis in my opinion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Edg, Thanks for the heads up...and his post pretty much spoke for itself. The tone of it was pretty off putting and reminded me of what a true believer sounds like when they are ranting...just that he's coming from another perspective. I've lurked on here for awhile and I can tell there's some good folks around here and some nuts as well! Thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wvansant111, In case you don't know, nablusoss1008 is one of the cruelest, sludge-mouthed, deeply flawed, hateful, serial concept killers on the Web. He probably dresses like a Goth, but there's no mistaking that he attacks like a Hun. I found your insights open and honest. Please don't let nablusoss1008 (often referred to as Knob/Nab) mean anything at all to you. Now, if you just give me a few minutes I'll work up a warning about just about everyone who posts here -- ahem. Still, Knob is such a feral energy I had to write. There's other rats, gnats and lice here, so hang in there. It takes quite awhile to get clarity about who's who and get comfortable posting for/to the minds you resonate with instead of posting to counter the scribbling of the black hearted creeps. I'm still learning how to pick my battles here, so I cannot tell you it'll be easy. I liked your energy, so I'm hoping to stick around. I had four kids, so I know some of your reality. Now, here's the sad part: some of what Knob said below is probably true, but he uses truth to hurt feelings and shame folks instead of using it for opening up to deeper intimacy and true communication. Take care. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 wvansant111@ wrote: I really do appreciate everyone's responses. Yes, the people here are exremely insightful. Hehe, you got it ! :-) You want knowledge and understand then you have come to the right place. Please pay particular attention to those that practised for a while and then dropped it because they are the ones that really know. I've always done the take what I need, leave the rest approach and its worked for me. Altho i did work for some movement folks and Mother Divine for awhile with mixed experience. Some was good, some was bad. Both Mother Divine and the socalled Purusha are in deep waters. I certainly didn't buy into everything they did or said but what would mess up my head every once in awhile, Like I said; stay away from them if you want to be in good mental shape and a good mother. I'd find I'd agree with them in spite of that. For example, I DID feel I could think a bit clearer in vastu structures. It's just a result of you having been told it is beneficial. It is not, it's a total scam ! Any benefits from that nonsense is just your imaginations. Was that self deception Yes indeed ! or was there something to it? No of course not. Just ask anybody here. They have probably never been in such a building, but they have great expertize in all fields of life. So I kept feeling that when things I saw seemed strange that made no sense to me, I just thought maybe in time it would make sense when I was more enlightened. Yes, better stay away from TM for awhile, then you will be able to see everything much more clear ! I think I was dangerously close to getting sucked into the TMO. Lucky you escaped, eh !? Very good ! It's your good karma for sure ! :-) Maybe I'll write about those experiences some other time. You must ! I am sure your writings are of great benefit and of interest for many people. You are a great soul, an old soul you know ! Can't wait to read it ! Being around and witnessing the whole Heavenly Mtn shake down was eye opening. Schocking, was it ? Please write about it - we really want all the details ! If they are too shocking then you can always mail Rick Archer here on the side, he'll be glad to pass it on anonymously. Also, seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. This is just that thing: The ideals do not match reality. Very interesting observation. Better leave the whole thing alone, you will never experience anything remotely close to what is ideal anyway so why bother ? And finally, having children and getting out of that world completely, making friends with other families that don't do TM and realizing we have a lot more in common than I thought Yes, yes. You are not as strange as you thought when you where in that cult you see. You are very normal ! (tho I still struggle with the lifestyle differences). They are curious and
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Lawson wrote: And you have NO idea if they felt pressured, assuming they were in a position to feel anything at all about this rumored scenario. From what I've read, the TMO was and is ruled by the libido. Many of the male teachers at MUM have been accused of having sexual relations with women teachers and students. Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Apparently most TTC, ATC, and CCPs are hotbeds of sexual promiscuity. According to Ned Wynn and Barry Wright, they used to drink alcohol and screw over dozens of female students, sometimes two in one night. So, I wouldn't be surprised if these same TMO teachers used to recruit female students for the Marshy. But, my guess is that the female students probably tried to seduce the Marshy, not the other way around. What amazes me is the extent that the Marshy rejected the advances of all the women. But then again, who'd want to sleep with a TMO teacher on TTC, ATC, or CCP, male or female, unless you were really, really desperate? It just doesn't make any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Locked in the gopi cage in the basement at vldroop. Duh. BTW, where are these women in the movement today? (I have some answers to that one but can't go there yet.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I guess what set me off was the people who were damaged. As I said before in response Edg's question what others on other lists were saying, a list with little interest in things TM gave a long list of people they knew personally with all sorts of meditational disorders, mental and psychiatric disorders, etc. from the practice. Yet I can look at other mantra yoga practitioners and not see the same problems. I'm not sure it's all that easy to distinguish, especially anecdotally and via hearsay, between preexisting disorders and those caused by meditation. It's been pointed out before that because TM was designed for the general householder population, with minimum requirements for learning, and sold as a cure-for-whatever-ails-ya, many people learned TM because they were already having difficulty coping rather than because they were seekers per se, unlike many practitioners of other types of mantra meditation. So the respective practitioner populations are quite different. The flip side of the coin is that many people who learned TM because they hoped it would solve the coping problems they were having found that it *did* solve them. We've seen testimony from several of them in the last day or so. Actually from what I understand the Srivistava clan has a history of producing gurus of questionable caliber. Do tell. What other gurus has the Srivastava clan produced?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. Except that I rarely do this without *also* showing why a particular claim made by person A is false, independently of any unfavorable information about A. R E A D M Y L I P S : I T D O E S N ' T M A T T E R * H O W * Y O U D E M O N I Z E T H E P E O P L E Y O U D E M O N I Z E . A L L T H A T M A T T E R S I S * T H A T * Y O U D E M O N I Z E T H E M . Y O U R F I R S T I M P U L S E I S * A L W A Y S * T O T R Y T O D E M O N I Z ET H E M . Well, no, Barry, it isn't. If it's my impulse at all, it's my *second* impulse. T H A T ' S J U S T W H A T Y O U D O . I T ' S * A L L * T H A T Y O U D O . Well, no, Barry, it isn't. As I just said, I almost always deal with whatever the claim is that I'm disagreeing with on its own terms. E V E R Y O N E H E R E K N O W S T H I S E X C E P T Y O U . Well, no, Barry, it isn't. And in fact, not even you knows this, because it's simply not true. T H A T I S W H A T M A K E S T H E M S A N E A N D Y O U I N S A N E . Actually, I'd suggest, considering the degree of projection you're demonstrating, it's you who is insane. Case in point: Nowhere have you addressed what I said about your excommunication lie. Instead, what you've done is to write six posts demonizing me for having called attention to it, fully half of the 12 posts you've made so far today.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
Oh, and Lurk should be in the kitchen too. Gotta have Lurk like morning coffee. I'm serious. If these folks could explore their dissonance with open hearts, this would become a true ashram here. For those of you that I have not invited to this imaginary ashram, sorry, but six folks being honest to the max would blow me away; I dare not toss more folks into this mix! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy has been beat upon by me to an extreme degree, and yet I see not the least intent on her part to start a war with me and nitpick everything I post. Whatever Turq did to get her angry to this degree that she must hit the least aspect of Turq's presentation has to be something worse than I've posted about her, and I tried my damnedest to get under her radar and really piss her off. She's not out of control; she's got reasons; and she's pushed my issues to a higher clarity more often than not. She'll hang in there until you're exhausted and just want to stop thinking about an issue. If I ran an ashram, she'd be the last one I'd kick out. That said, if Judy would just drop the bash-Turq thing, and the bash-Vaj thing, these three folks could be shining stars of insight here if they'd start really striving for intimacy and nurturing each other's contributions from their significantly different POVs/lives. But that's very very hard. I don't know if I would be able to keep it together emotionally to handle the heat in any kitchen where these three were being honest. Toss in Curtis playing a guitar and wailing from the depths of his cosmic heart, pepper it with Marek's blurbifying, and I'm going to get really quiet and just enjoy the show. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Judy's point is the same as it's been for fourteen years. Whenever someone says anything she doesn't like about the person she never bothered to meet (Maharishi), she has to find something bad she can imply about the person who said it. It's a well-known logical fallacy called poisoning the well. This argument has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. The fascinating thing to me is that she claims that this isn't what she's doing. She gets so caught up in the moment of each new attempt to demonize someone who has said something she doesn't like that she can't see the overall pattern -- that 80% of what she does on this forum, and has ALWAYS done on this forum, is to demonize people who have said something that she doesn't like. In other words, she gets so focused on the tree that she's trying to cut down at the moment that she fails to notice the forest of trees she has been system- atically trying to cut down for over 14 years now. And that pretty much everyone else here has watched her try to cut down. THEY are aware of her patterns, but Judy seems not to be. It's a pretty bizarre psychosis in my opinion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Curtis wrote: Sex with a like minded consenting adult is a good thing where I come from...the planet earth. At a TTC, ATC, or CCP? WTF? OK, got it. From what I've read, the TMO was and is ruled by the libido. Many of the male teachers at MUM have been accused of having sexual relations with women teachers and students. Probably all of the TMO teachers have been guilty of having sex with other TMO teachers. Apparently most TTC, ATC, and CCPs are hotbeds of sexual promiscuity. According to Ned Wynn and Barry Wright, they used to drink alcohol and screw over dozens of female students, sometimes two in one night. So, I wouldn't be surprised if these same TMO teachers used to recruit female students for the Marshy. But, my guess is that the female students probably tried to seduce the Marshy, not the other way around. What amazes me is the extent that the Marshy rejected the advances of all the women. But then again, who'd want to sleep with a TMO teacher on TTC, ATC, or CCP, male or female, unless you were really, really desperate? It just doesn't make any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy has been beat upon by me to an extreme degree, and yet I see not the least intent on her part to start a war with me and nitpick everything I post. Whatever Turq did to get her angry to this degree that she must hit the least aspect of Turq's presentation has to be something worse than I've posted about her, and I tried my damnedest to get under her radar and really piss her off. It's actually pretty simple: Barry is a phony, and you aren't (whatever else you may be!). I really, really, REALLY loathe phonies.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He was what he was...none of us will ever figure it out. And he did what he did...and none of us will ever figure that out, either. The only thing that anyone can say about him for sure is that he's dead. I think that sums it up, he was an enigma like Eberwein said, and you (and me). He wasn't up front about who HE was, and I don't think it was out of modesty but out of secretiveness. Swami Yogananda routinely referred to his state of consciousness and had no bones about it, he was in continuous bliss by his own admission. He stated who he was and never compromised his integrity, and it wasn't out of pride but reassurance to his followers that they too could achieve what he achieved by practicing what HE himself practiced; we don't even know what MMY practiced! But like you had said MMY brought many of us unto the path of spirituality and helped us in various ways and we are grateful for that. God Bless Him and I wish him all the best. Good bye Maharishi.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 8:55 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re: research. It's interesting, a graduate student in Criminology from Holland actually did his thesis on the ME and found in a town where 14% of the population was practicing the TMSP, crime actually went up. It was presented to the TMO as evidence of such and they refused to even comment. I doubt they even looked at it. In my opinion, this is *exactly* the same phenomenon that we saw yesterday with Stephen/Jack Ramp saying that he knew Maharishi and that thus it was simply not possible for him to have ever had sex. Rick very patiently pointed him to the Sexy Sadie file on FFL, a set of stories by the women themselves and by guys who spent a great deal longer at Maharishi's door than Stephen ever did. Rick did this several times. Will Stephen/Jack ever read that file? My bet is No. Never. In fact, he never even acknowledged here that he'd been told about it, if I'm not mistaken. To read the file would be to risk the possibility that what he knows to be true isn't. He unsubscribed from FFL this morning. I sent him a farewell email and told him that if he wanted to read that file, I’d send it to him. I’ll let you know if he responds. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wvansant111@ wrote: Also,seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. Do you care to share what some of these inconsistencies were? I'm referring mainly to the kids themselves. They were a sweet group of kids who I loved very much. But aside from a few who seemed unusually bright and creative, most of them were just normal kids. I think it was damaging and kind of cruel for any teenager who is learning about life and making mistakes that its normal to do at that age to have the label ideal girl put on her. Then some things happened (girls sneaking out with boys) and when the truth of what happened came out it became clear that many of them were actually much more rebellious than the norm. Some of the stuff they were doing was pretty wild, in my opinion because they were being repressed and controlled in every other area of their life. I just learned a lot by witnessing that experience. And bottom line, I blamed MD for being so naive as to have a bunch of teenagers without a guard in the dorm. They didn't have to try hard to sneak out and MD is extremely lucky nothing bad happened to them. I've met some amazing children who grew up in the movement but I think maybe its due to their TM practice and the qualities that spiritual families tend to have...growing up with parents who supported them, inspired to strive for high goals and being open to 'field of all possibilities). I toured MSAE and actually felt pretty good about that school (although I would be extremely cautious every step if my kids went there) but the MD school was way too dogmatic and seemed like a risky experiment how kids would react in that environment.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TurquoiseB Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Disappointment from The Myth of Freedom by Chögyam Trungpa --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: Really sums it up in my opinion. Thanks for posting. What he said ^ Indeed. This is one of the shortest yet best descriptions of the reality of the spiritual process I've ever read. Someone posted it on the Amma chat group in response to the news that MMY had died. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Letter to NPR re Commentary on Maharishi's Death
It has almost been nothing about MMYs death in Norway. Some notices about that Beatles guru is dead - thats all. But I was interviewed in the Radio about Maharishi and the angel again was what the Beatles meant for MMY. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been surprised how much MMY's death has been in the newspapers here in Finland. The news was in the big nationwide Helsingin Sanomat in the net already 1 am on Wednesday 06. Feb. The next day I saw the news in two other newspapers I follow regularly. All of them were matter of fact, although focusing mainly on his relationship with the Beatles. Today in the local newspaper there was a beautiful picture from the funeral at Vlodrop. Irmeli --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From Jim Greenfield: I just sent the following email to NPR re: their comments today. Re: Scott Simon's commentary on death of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. NPR took the easy way with shallow remarks about Maharishi, characteristic of the American press's coverage of just about everything. If you'd done ten minutes of research you might have found information more appropriate to cover the passing of a great spiritual leader. You might have mentioned the universities Maharishi founded on two continents, or the fascinating seminars he held with the world's leading intellectuals, including innumerable Nobel laureates in physics, chemistry, biology, etc. involving profound discussions on the nature of the universe from perspectives ranging from astrophysics to Vedic philosophy. Or you might have mentioned his scholarship and books, or the millions of people who benefited from the healing, restorative effects of Maharishi's Transcendental Meditation, as documented by hundreds of scientific studies at major medical schools, universities, and research institutes throughout the world. But instead you went with snide comments about how much enlightenment you can buy with $300 million, and with the Beatles' rumors about sexual impropriety even though you yourself mentioned that Paul McCartney and George Harrison later repudiated the shameful story. This is not the first time in history a great spiritual leader has been derided at the time of death. There was a Rabbi in Israel who was once mocked with a crown of thorns. Is that the precedent you wish to follow, Scott? Not much of an obituary. Jim Greenfield Transcendental Meditation Teacher 15105 SW 119th Avenue Tigard, OR 97224 503-968-0499 HYPERLINK mailto:jimgreenfieldshow@jimgreenfieldshow@ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1267 - Release Date: 2/8/2008 8:12 PM
[FairfieldLife] Cynthia Lennon pays tribute to Maharishi
Cynthia still has happy memories of her time at Maharishi's ashram in India with the Beatles and was unimpressed with hubby John's fit of petulance which brought their stay to a premature close. And she still practises TM ! Follow the link to see full story in today's Sunday Times (UK). . . http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music /article3340963.ece
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nablusoss1008 Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:23 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? Welcome back Nabby. We were wondering if you had gone to Vlodrop. Any news? Although I do see clearly that TM has benefits for us, I came down off that higher than thou TM superiority. Disgusting, truly very, very bad. They think they are more evolved than others, don't they ?! It's sad - we are all equal, old souls. Since everything else you wrote in this post was facetious, I presume this was too. You usually typify the types wvansant was objecting to. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Vaj wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:07 AM, authfriend wrote: Do tell. What other gurus has the Srivastava clan produced? Nirmala Devi and Swami Shyam. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2007/03/sour-faced-devi-spoils-indias-flag.html Sorry forgot the link on Swami Shyam (aka Shyam Srivistava): http://www.swamishyam.com/html/html/globe_article.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Judy has been beat upon by me to an extreme degree, and yet I see not the least intent on her part to start a war with me and nitpick everything I post. Whatever Turq did to get her angry to this degree that she must hit the least aspect of Turq's presentation has to be something worse than I've posted about her, and I tried my damnedest to get under her radar and really piss her off. It's actually pretty simple: Barry is a phony, and you aren't (whatever else you may be!). I really, really, REALLY loathe phonies. I think that what Judy is trying to say here is: I just don't understand! I've been trying to make people SEE how much of a phony Barry is for 14 years now! I've trotted out my best arguments, and implored people on this forum and several others to gang up on him and dump on Barry the way they should, and they haven't. AND, whenever Barry points out that *I* am the one who is obsessed with HIM, instead of coming to MY defense and agreeing with all my well-thought-out and well-presented arguments and ganging up on him the way I want them to, instead people gang up on ME! I just don't understand. It's just not FAIR! BARRY is the Bad Person here, not ME. Don't you all SEE that? How many times do I have to say it BEFORE you see it? Show of hands: Is there anyone here who doesn't think that's a fair description of what's going on in Judy's head right about now?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cynthia Lennon pays tribute to Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cynthia still has happy memories of her time at Maharishi's ashram in India with the Beatles and was unimpressed with hubby John's fit of petulance which brought their stay to a premature close. And she still practises TM ! Follow the link to see full story in today's Sunday Times (UK). . . http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music /article3340963.ece http://tinyurl.com/2wtblc From The Sunday Times February 10, 2008 The Beatles, the Maharishi and me John's ex-wife was there when the Sixties guru `turned on' the Fab Four. Following his death last week she tells how flower power went global The Maharishi Cynthia Lennon The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi came into my life at a traumatic time. It was the late 1960s. I was married to John Lennon, one of the so-called Fab Four. The Beatles were at the height of their fame, but my relationship with John was becoming fraught and distant. Sex, drugs and rock'n'roll had taken their toll on the Beatles. They were exhausted. Too many people wanted too much all the time. Then Brian Epstein, the band's manager, suddenly died. We all needed some peace and space and found it at the Maharishi's ashram in India. I did not know it at the time, but this would be a defining moment of the 1960s, the moment when flower power went mainstream. The pictures of the Beatles, the fashion leaders of the time, sitting crosslegged with the Maharishi, were to spark a huge interest in eastern mysticism and meditation. I was in London last week when I heard the Maharishi had died. I was surprised at how shocked I felt. He was part of my life for just a few short months in the late 1960s, but his influence on me has lasted. It's bizarre: I was never a follower, yet I have a beautiful photograph of the Maharishi holding a rose that I have kept with me ever since. It was Patti Boyd who introduced us to the Maharishi. George Harrison and Patti had become interested in Indian spiritual beliefs and went to a lecture in London, held by the spiritual regeneration movement. Later that year 1967 its leader, the Maharishi, came over from India to hold a conference in Bangor, north Wales. John went to hear him speak in London beforehand, with George, Patti, Paul McCartney, Jane Asher and Ringo Starr. It's fantastic stuff, Cyn, the meditation's so simple and it's life-chang-ing, John told me. Like the others he had been bowled over by the Maharishi's charisma and promises of nirvana. So off we went to the Bangor conference. George, Patti, her sister Jenny and Paul were all going. Ringo decided at the last minute that he would come too, and so did Mick Jagger and Marianne Faithfull. The Beatles had overdosed on everything that fame could bring. The Maharishi was antidrugs and had explained that through meditation you could reach a natural high as powerful as any drugs could induce. John loved this idea and was already talking about enlightenment, cosmic awareness and doing without drugs. So I was all for the Maharishi's message: perhaps this was the change of direction John had been looking for. We were staying in dormitories at a large training college, along with a couple of hundred other followers. Our room was basic, with bunk beds and simple chests of drawers. Mick and Marianne sauntered in looking bewildered. Hey John, what's hap-pening? Where do we go from here? Back to school, John laughed. The introductory seminar was an incongruous mix of the Maharishi's regular devotees joined by the psyche-delically clad pop star elite, all sitting crosslegged on the bare wooden floor. That afternoon the Beatles held a press conference renouncing the use of drugs, in keeping with the Maharishi's teachings. Only a month earlier they, along with other pop stars, had taken a full-page ad in The Times stating that the law on mari-juana was unworkable and immoral. Now all that was turned on its head. The press were wildly excited. But the story had barely hit the news-stands when it was overtaken. As we were heading back to our room, a reporter told us that Brian Epstein, who had steered the Beatles for the past six years, had been found dead. The disbelief and horror were overwhelming. Brian had been the Beatles' mentor, their guide and best friend. The details were sketchy but it was a suspected overdose. This was horrific. And help came in the shape of the Maharishi. We were called into his quarters and walked in, heads bowed. He sat yoga-style in the centre and asked us to sit down on the floor and talked to us for the next few minutes about life's journey, reincarnation, release from pain and this life being a stepping stone to the next. The Maharishi's words helped us all to feel a little less bleak and as the weeks passed after we returned to London, John and I were brought closer by grief. John and George were also being drawn towards the Maharishi. It was as though, with Brian
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
On Feb 10, 2008, at 10:19 AM, authfriend wrote: Actually, I'd suggest, considering the degree of projection you're demonstrating, it's you who is insane. Case in point: Nowhere have you addressed what I said about your excommunication lie. Instead, what you've done is to write six posts demonizing me for having called attention to it, fully half of the 12 posts you've made so far today. Are we having fun yet? :) You know, not to get in the way of a good set of arguments/rejoinders or anything, but I could swear it was Barry who posted, just a few days ago, these fateful lines: I'm *already* sorry I asked to remove the posting limits for the next couple of weeks. When you agreed to it, you said something about lifting the limits as long as no one used it to get into one of those insufferable back-and-forth arguments. Well, here's one -- two women, sometimes three, going back and forth trying to prove whose dick is longer. If I were moderator I'd set a limit on how many more replies each of them can make in this horrible dick-size contest of theirs. Don't ANY of them have LIVES? Apart from the obvious misogyny, these lines are pretty funny. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He unsubscribed from FFL this morning. I sent him a farewell email and toldhim that if he wanted to read that file, I'd send it to him. I'll letyou know if he responds. I read his second to last post, where he comments on the accusations, and it's not clear to me whether or not he read the file. That said, when I joined the group three years ago, it was the first I had heard of these accusations, and my response, I must say, was the same as Stephens. Then, after reading the accounts, they would seem hard to dispute, and yet something seems off about them. One example: At some point one of the ladies talks about how much Maharishi enjoyed blow jobs, and how the same lady was annoyed that Maharishi would not eat her maw. I guess now, with M's death, these first person accounts are to come out, and this will serve to either strengthen or weaken the accusations. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] On Maharishi Channel now
Hagelin leading a global meeting. It may be live. There was a 5- minute global meditation, and Hagelin is now introducing a very recent MMY tape on the mechanics of global transformation.
[FairfieldLife] Will Cost Of TM Go Down Now?????
If i'm not mistaken, the reason for TM being taught at such a ridiculous price is primarily due to Maharishi. He seemed to express so much negativity in the final years of his life, specifically towards America for not choosing to meditate, but purchase other luxaries instead. Is there anyone on this forum who knows or would be able to ask anyone if the price will be reduced to something reasonable now? At least in America. I have many friends and family who are curious to learn, but don't exactly have 2500 dollars to spare. JGD Mike Brown
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Show of hands: Is there anyone here who doesn't think that's a fair description of what's going on in Judy's head right about now? http://www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/07/hd_format_war_kids.jpg http://www.mydogella.com/sandbox.jpg http://www.me.mtu.edu/~jdsommer/sommervilles/images/journal/20070421sand.jpg http://www.geocities.com/linkfrek/YoungLinkMM2.jpg
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:07 AM, authfriend wrote: Do tell. What other gurus has the Srivastava clan produced? Nirmala Devi and Swami Shyam. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/2007/03/sour-faced-devi-spoils-indias-flag.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Life On Mars
TurquoiseB wrote: For those of you who enjoy quality television series, this one's a real gem. An oddball gem, but a gem. Unfortunately, you folks in the US probably won't be able to find this one at Netflix unless it carries Region 2 DVDs; this one was never released in the US. The basic scenario is about a modern-day (2006) It's available on BBC America. I watched the first season a year ago OnDemand and some of this season. Yup, it's a fun series though drags a bit sometimes. And guess what? Just like The Office there is going to be a US version on ABC developed by David Kelley. It may have been delayed because of the strike: http://imdb.com/title/tt0787490/ I watched a cool movie the other night on DVD called Great World of Sound which is a little indie film about a couple guys playing salesmen for a song shark company. The story is based on the director's dad who was a radio DJ and when out of work one time took a job with one of these companies and only found out they were song sharks when checked to see if any of the radio stations were getting the singles which they weren't. Well done and shot as a mockumentary. The funny thing was I was watching this weeks Lost and the new character Charlotte is the same actress that plays the lead character's wife in the film http://imdb.com/title/tt0826547/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Will Cost Of TM Go Down Now?????
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:28 PM, seekliberation wrote: If i'm not mistaken, the reason for TM being taught at such a ridiculous price is primarily due to Maharishi. He seemed to express so much negativity in the final years of his life, specifically towards America for not choosing to meditate, but purchase other luxaries instead. Is there anyone on this forum who knows or would be able to ask anyone if the price will be reduced to something reasonable now? At least in America. I have many friends and family who are curious to learn, but don't exactly have 2500 dollars to spare. JGD Mike Brown I've not heard anyone say or comment on that in the TMO, but they are quite busy with the funeral at this point. One of MMY's old pundits, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, teaches the same meditation technique but much more reasonably. Just a couple of hundred dollars.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Cynthia Lennon pays tribute to Maharishi
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of s3raphita Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:08 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Cynthia Lennon pays tribute to Maharishi Cynthia still has happy memories of her time at Maharishi's ashram in India with the Beatles and was unimpressed with hubby John's fit of petulance which brought their stay to a premature close. And she still practises TM ! Follow the link to see full story in today's Sunday Times (UK). . . HYPERLINK http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/musichtt p://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music /article3340963.ece Good article, but the link was broken. Use http://tinyurl.com/2wtblc No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
Thank you for your reply. One reason I was interested was that my wife is a part time teacher at a somewhat upper crust all girls school. (not boarding). And yes, fairly tight discipline and oversight of the girls is defintely a part of the program. That said, we have three kids, and my wife was 40 when we had the first, and 45 when we had the third. I leave the spiritual/religious training up to her for the most part. I have not the slightest desire to introduce them to meditation, or any other tenants of eastern philosphy. They know I have, (or had) an interest in it, and that I have adopted many tenants of it in my life. Occassionaly the subject of reincarnation comes up, and that is always good for some laughs, as they know I subscribe to this belief, and it is not a part of the Catholic catechism. Quite honestly, it is a pretty good balance. Traditional on one end, new age on the other. is --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: wvansant111@ wrote: Also,seeing some of the realities at the Ideal Girls School was an interesting experience. Seeing that reality did not match the ideals. Do you care to share what some of these inconsistencies were? I'm referring mainly to the kids themselves. They were a sweet group of kids who I loved very much. But aside from a few who seemed unusually bright and creative, most of them were just normal kids. I think it was damaging and kind of cruel for any teenager who is learning about life and making mistakes that its normal to do at that age to have the label ideal girl put on her. Then some things happened (girls sneaking out with boys) and when the truth of what happened came out it became clear that many of them were actually much more rebellious than the norm. Some of the stuff they were doing was pretty wild, in my opinion because they were being repressed and controlled in every other area of their life. I just learned a lot by witnessing that experience. And bottom line, I blamed MD for being so naive as to have a bunch of teenagers without a guard in the dorm. They didn't have to try hard to sneak out and MD is extremely lucky nothing bad happened to them. I've met some amazing children who grew up in the movement but I think maybe its due to their TM practice and the qualities that spiritual families tend to have...growing up with parents who supported them, inspired to strive for high goals and being open to 'field of all possibilities). I toured MSAE and actually felt pretty good about that school (although I would be extremely cautious every step if my kids went there) but the MD school was way too dogmatic and seemed like a risky experiment how kids would react in that environment.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lurkernomore20002000 Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:25 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri --- In HYPERLINK mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.comFairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He unsubscribed from FFL this morning. I sent him a farewell email and toldhim that if he wanted to read that file, I'd send it to him. I'll letyou know if he responds. I read his second to last post, where he comments on the accusations, and it's not clear to me whether or not he read the file. That said, when I joined the group three years ago, it was the first I had heard of these accusations, and my response, I must say, was the same as Stephens. Then, after reading the accounts, they would seem hard to dispute, and yet something seems off about them. One example: At some point one of the ladies talks about how much Maharishi enjoyed blow jobs, and how the same lady was annoyed that Maharishi would not eat her maw. That was Ned Wynne’s terminology. Not one of the ladies. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doncha get it yet, Geez? It has nothing to do with the women or the incidents or any of that stuff. It's all about Gotta Get Barry. That's the only thing that matters. Judy will keep harping on all of this until you chant the mantra she wants you to chant, Barry bad! Chant this several times a day and you'll be one of the good guys in her world. :-) :-) :-) Seriously, isn't it amazing how insane people think that they actually sound sane when they go on like this? I certainly get it now Barry. Judy's post crowing I've been sparring with Barry for 13 years; I know how he operates. He really is the Second Coming of Andrew Skolnick could not have made it more obvious. Barry bad.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Questions for JackRamp
When you meditate is it TM or did you move on an learn something else? I made the acquaintance several years ago of an Indian tantric who had moved to the Bay Area and became his student. I learned the stuff that I felt was missing or never taught in TM like mantra shastra. I also learned that other traditions don't believe in giving goddess or shakti mantras to the general public because they can cause anxiety. Instead they give Shiva or shanti mantras as they are calming. Seems Maharishi started out this way but later went to the shakti mantras. You have any insights to this? Or where particularly this later teaching came from? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's a lot. At the time things were moving so quickly, it's late, and I will really give a good account for you. I did quit, I was actually kicked out for being a spy. I was shattered at thew betrayal and MMY would never answer my calls or letters. I have come a long way since then, I do meditate..I was laughing with a friend aboiut all the techniques we got from him...$more later Sent via BlackBerry by ATT -Original Message- From: ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 03:17:48 To:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Questions for JackRamp Jack/Steven you invited people to ask you questions about your experience with living with MMY. So, tell me what was a typical day in the life of MMY. Tell me about your job; what did you do on a typical day? Why was he always upset with you? Why didn't you quit? Who regularly spent time with MMY? Do you still do TM? Tell me, do you believe he was enlightened? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 11:07 AM, authfriend wrote: Do tell. What other gurus has the Srivastava clan produced? Nirmala Devi and Swami Shyam. OK. By clan Vaj means those who share the surname Srivastava, which is apparently a very common name in northern India, generally used among the Kayastha caste, according to Wikipedia. Swami Shyam cclaims to be MMY's cousin (and was once a follower of MMY). However: SCS [Swami Shyam] said that Maharishi was his cousin. Maharishi (self appointed) was born Mahesh Prasad Varma. That would mean that Varma (a Kayastha family name) of Allahabad and the Shrivastava of Koonch were related by the marriage of a sister of either patrilineage. Most Shyams have believed that Maharishi's family name is Shrivastava. But it is a safe bet that SCS calls him cousin because he is Kayastha not based on the name. All the class of Kayashta are made over as his relatives if they are famous. In any case the Shankaracharya denounces Maharishi and I presume if he ever met Shyam Charan Shrivastava would find him completely false. In any case SCS never demonstrated that he knew anything more about his cousin than the official TM literature spoke of. http://www.geocities.com/poowyll/utnapishtim/P6/utnapishtim.Q4P5.MensR ea01.htm http://tinyurl.com/2hdr2e Nirmala Devi only *married* a Srivastava (who does not appear to be related to MMY). So it would appear there's somewhat less to Vaj's claim than meets the eye. Quel surprise!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was Ned Wynne's terminology. Not one of the ladies. Thanks Rick. I don't want to get you bogged down in the whole issue again, but who, again, is New Wynne, and what is his POV- neutral, or does he have an agenda? Thanks. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wvansant111 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edg, Thanks for the heads up...and his post pretty much spoke for itself. The tone of it was pretty off putting and reminded me of what a true believer sounds like when they are ranting...just that he's coming from another perspective. I've lurked on here for awhile and I can tell there's some good folks around here and some nuts as well! Thanks! You are right. On a scale from 1 - 10, where 10 = normal, good people with alot of wisdom, and 1 is totally nutty weirdos you could ignore, I will help you by giving a few examples out of memory. This is to help you in evaluating posts here as they come along. There are roughly 23 posters here as established by a rescent poll, not many when you think of it. In fact so few that one wonders why some post several posts a day as if for a huge audience. I thought so for a while too. Probably they cling to the idea that literally thousands are lurking here without posting. Anyway, these are just a few examples. Sometimes I mix up real names with aliases, bear with me. Judy/authfriend : 1 Edg : 5 Lawson/sparaig : 1 Turq/Barry Right: 9,5 Jim Flanegin: 0 Rory: 0 Off : 2 Vaj :10 Curtisdeltablues: 7 Angela : 3 Feste37 : 1 Rich Archer : 9 shemp : 3 lurk: 5 George Forest : 3 Irmeli : 3 cardemaister: 1 MDixon : 2 BillyG : 6 drpetersutphen : 8 Alex Stanley: 1 new.morning : ? geezerfreak : 4 pitoykodako : 1 As one of our contributers here, a famous occultist and spiritual writer of his own universe used to say: just my two centimes Best wishes Nablusoss
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Maharishi Channel now
Can't be live; silly me. They're all in India or on their way. Interestingly, Bevan is talking now about MMY and his teaching and is sounding more natural and genuine than I've ever heard him. I had him on in the background, not listening to what he was saying, and my attention was suddenly caught by the sound of his voice--not the words--because of its energy and clarity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hagelin leading a global meeting. It may be live. There was a 5- minute global meditation, and Hagelin is now introducing a very recent MMY tape on the mechanics of global transformation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: On Maharishi Channel now
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hagelin leading a global meeting. It may be live. There was a 5- minute global meditation, and Hagelin is now introducing a very recent MMY tape on the mechanics of global transformation. I think they must be in India now. This must be prerecorded. Haglin and Bevan are completely unlistenable for me. Is it that they are trying too hard? Is it that they are talking to insiders as if they have not heard everything they are saying about one million times from Maharishi himself? Defining yoga for Christ's sake! It keeps the movement at a pre-school intellectual level. I know Maharishi did it too, but at least he had some personal charm while boring us to tears. These guys come off like the guy you try to lose at the spinach dip at the pre-conference mixer at the Holiday Inn near the convention center. Maharishi bet on the wrong horses IMO. He chose people with zero personal charisma. If he wanted to let his teaching have a chance of continuing after his death, he should have started grooming Ravi Shankar when I met him in India in 80, when he was beginning to show his discontent being the Have Ravi do it guy. (a phrase I heard Maharishi use many times while in India) Nankashore was too loopy, I had a course that he presided over in Yugoslavia when it looked like he might be being groomed for the role. He also came to our TTC to make us teachers in Maharishi's place. Sweet guy, but not the sharp knife in the drawer. He was a total disaster when Purusha trotted him around to give intro lectures. (He started with the concept of devotion to the master much to the horror of his handlers.) Maybe Ravi was already too far gone, but he might have pulled it off. I never spent any time with Tony so I don't get him at all. Maharishi just seemed to love the guy. But with Bevan and John and Tony and the rest of the motley Raja crew at the helm, this ship is headed for the rocks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:54 PM, authfriend wrote: So it would appear there's somewhat less to Vaj's claim than meets the eye. Quel surprise! For reference, Vaj's original claim: Actually from what I understand the Srivistava clan has a history of producing 'gurus' of questionable caliber. Actually only a single such, if that (given that your second example was a big bust, since it turns out she's a Srivastava only by marriage). I'd say his cousin (or distant relative), once a member of the TMO, molesting disciples is pretty bizarre. Apparently *very* distant. (Did you know Barack Obama is distantly related to Dick Cheney? They're 10th cousins, I believe.) In the general scheme of things, it doesn't seem to me all that high on the scale of bizarreness. Molesting female disciples seems to be almost an occupational hazard for spiritual teachers, if what one reads is true.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
On Feb 10, 2008, at 1:09 PM, geezerfreak wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually from what I understand the Srivistava clan has a history of producing gurus of questionable caliber. Vaj, I would be most interested in hearing more about this. I've heard plenty about the thugishness of this bunch, but never anything about other gurus. Please, do tell. Read the message titled Those Crazy Srivistavas and you'll read the story of Shyam Srivastava, his membership in the TMO which brought him to Cananda, and all the celebs, etcand of course, sexual allegations sigh.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
For once, Nablus1008 and I are in total agreement, except that I would have rated Curtis higher on the good people with a lot of wisdom scale. Thanks for the good word Turq but with my lack of spiritual practices I'm lucky I ranked as high as I did! I'll take it with thanks Nabby! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: On a scale from 1 - 10, where 10 = normal, good people with alot of wisdom... Vaj :10 Turq/Barry Right: 9,5 Rick Archer : 9 drpetersutphen : 8 Curtisdeltablues: 7 ...and 1 is totally nutty weirdos you could ignore... Off : 2 Judy/authfriend : 1 Lawson/sparaig : 1 Jim Flanegin: 0 Rory: 0 For once, Nablus1008 and I are in total agreement, except that I would have rated Curtis higher on the good people with a lot of wisdom scale.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a scale from 1 - 10, where 10 = normal, good people with alot of wisdom... Vaj :10 Turq/Barry Right: 9,5 Rick Archer : 9 drpetersutphen : 8 Curtisdeltablues: 7 ...and 1 is totally nutty weirdos you could ignore... Off : 2 Judy/authfriend : 1 Lawson/sparaig : 1 Jim Flanegin: 0 Rory: 0 For once, Nablus1008 and I are in total agreement, except that I would have rated Curtis higher on the good people with a lot of wisdom scale.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
Vaj wrote: On Feb 9, 2008, at 11:43 PM, feste37 wrote: It's OK. You held off for three days, which must have been quite an effort. I don't think you ever got MMY though. I never got any impression of sleaziness about him. Quite the opposite, actually. And watching the events currently going on in India reinforces my feeling that this was indeed the passing of a great man. But I think your feelings on the matter are sincerely held. I just wonder why TM didn't do for you (I seem to remember seeing that you were initiated once) what it did for so many people. My experience in the early years with TM left no room for doubt; the technique was doing what I was told it would do. That's why I've never cared much about the merits of the TM research, one way or the other. I know what I experienced. I actually enjoyed TM and had good results. However I had the same experience Curtis did--even though I was interested in the fuller knowledge, it was never given, just rehashed. I guess I was very fortunate at the time as I met a pundit-yogi in my home state who knew the whole path, of which TM was just an (important) beginning step. And rather than not getting the answers, he answered every single question I had and revealed the entire path of Patanjali and Sri Vidya in the process. Mantra yoga is a very profound path. That was the impression I got that there wasn't that much in the bag of tricks. What cinched it was in 1985 when they did that ayurvedic tour and charged $185 for an intro lecture on ayurveda I could have given from just reading Dr. Lad's book. In the 1990s being involved with ayurveda and jyotish I met many people from other traditions and learned some of that stuff that was missing plus later getting a tantric who could fill in the rest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually from what I understand the Srivistava clan has a history of producing gurus of questionable caliber. Vaj, I would be most interested in hearing more about this. I've heard plenty about the thugishness of this bunch, but never anything about other gurus. Please, do tell.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Will Cost Of TM Go Down Now?????
Vaj wrote: On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:28 PM, seekliberation wrote: If i'm not mistaken, the reason for TM being taught at such a ridiculous price is primarily due to Maharishi. He seemed to express so much negativity in the final years of his life, specifically towards America for not choosing to meditate, but purchase other luxaries instead. Is there anyone on this forum who knows or would be able to ask anyone if the price will be reduced to something reasonable now? At least in America. I have many friends and family who are curious to learn, but don't exactly have 2500 dollars to spare. JGD Mike Brown I've not heard anyone say or comment on that in the TMO, but they are quite busy with the funeral at this point. One of MMY's old pundits, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, teaches the same meditation technique but much more reasonably. Just a couple of hundred dollars. There are lots of qualified teachers of alternative meditation techniques including myself. Most teach safer techniques which are more calming than TM. Most if they charge at all don't charge very much. It all depends if one wants to learn meditation or hang out with a pop guru.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:54 PM, authfriend wrote: So it would appear there's somewhat less to Vaj's claim than meets the eye. Quel surprise! I'd say his cousin (or distant relative), once a member of the TMO, molesting disciples is pretty bizarre.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Duveyoung Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 12:36 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY? I'm a C student! What a bell curve. I'll continue this farce by adding my scores for these folks next to Knob's. And kudos to Knob for giving me such a high score after I gobsmacked him. Edg Rich Archer : 9 11 Hey Edg, thanks for the off-the-curve score. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi rape rumours
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Judy has been beat upon by me to an extreme degree, and yet I see not the least intent on her part to start a war with me and nitpick everything I post. Whatever Turq did to get her angry to this degree that she must hit the least aspect of Turq's presentation has to be something worse than I've posted about her, and I tried my damnedest to get under her radar and really piss her off. It's actually pretty simple: Barry is a phony, and you aren't (whatever else you may be!). I really, really, REALLY loathe phonies. I think that what Judy is trying to say here is: I just don't understand! I've been trying to make people SEE how much of a phony Barry is for 14 years now! I've trotted out my best arguments, and implored people on this forum and several others to gang up on him and dump on Barry the way they should, and they haven't. AND, whenever Barry points out that *I* am the one who is obsessed with HIM, instead of coming to MY defense and agreeing with all my well-thought-out and well-presented arguments and ganging up on him the way I want them to, instead people gang up on ME! I just don't understand. It's just not FAIR! Funny I would be saying that to Edg in response to a post of his that was highly complimentary to me. (Meant to say thanks for the kind words, Edg.)
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Maharishi Channel now
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of authfriend Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 12:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Maharishi Channel now Man, I had some of the most fabulous TM teachers for residence courses in my early years of TM-- charisma out the wazoo, and just brilliant on the teaching (e.g., Jim McCain). Jim McCann is an old friend of mine. We met in the 7th grade, went to prep school together. I lived with his family for years. I’ll pass your compliment along to him. Janet Hoffmann, chair of the Manhattan TM Center, was no slouch either. Janet is also a dear friend. A little uncomfortable with me these days though, ‘cause I’m such a renegade. We taught dozens of residence courses together, mostly in Asbury Park and Lock Sheldrake. Did you attend any? No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
Re: [FairfieldLife] Those Crazy Srivistavas
Link which I am sending is abut guy who started with TM in early '70 but soon he quit and started his own kundalini yoga movement. I know him and his 5 wifes. http://www.komaja.org/en/index.php
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ridiculously named TM-Free blog is anything *but* TM-Free. It's all TM, all the time. Unhealthy-TM-Obsession Blog is a more accurate description. I checked the blog out. Seems no more unhealthy than this place--we have no idea the extent of anyone's obsession. I can understand the desire to put out the other side of the story as the TMO never sees anything wrong with itself. Both that blog and this group reflect how people deal with the paradox that Peter mentioned. And the original poster mentioned. I am coming to the very personal conclusions that: (1) MMY probably believed strongly in himself and his cause, but was manipulative, lacked empathy, was prone to exaggeration and I don't believe he was enlightened. He as the founder is ultimately responsible for the organizations that have evolved under his tenure. (2) Meditation 20 minutes twice a day probably does no harm and likely does a fair amount of people some good. A chance to step back, relax, let go. Maybe it has some physical benefits but they are not pronounced. The psychological benefits are harder to quantify. Spiritual benefits? The jury is out for me. I wouldn't pay the current price. The price is elitist. (3) I question whether the advanced techniques and the siddhis have any benefit whatsoever. The promised benefits have not been shown. The claims are exaggerated. The teachers say you need no faith to practice the techniques, but why would you practice the techniques unless you had faith that they worked? Super highway to enlightenment? I don't see it. If it is a superhighway, I know plenty of people who have been on that highway for more than 30 years, still going around in circles. I think that any benefits people perceive are in large part due to justification. You invested a lot of time and money; dissonance theory makes it likely that you will exaggerate the benefits and minimize the detriments and never know you did so. (4) Excessive meditation, like rounding, may be dangerous to some and is good for almost no one. (5) The TMO is a collection of various corporations and entities that are not financially transparent which leads to considerable speculation as to where the money goes. It is paternalistic and not democratic, inconsistent with many western values. Its leadership structure and asset ownership structure is obscure. It has blinders on as to the TM techniques and its affiliated scientists often refuses to cooperate with outside scientists and they ignore potential problems in some meditators. Its inside scientists do not behave as scientists, they behave like religious fanatics. Yet, as a religion it fails. The various religious type pronouncements are inconsistent (think Nader and heaven vs. the more mystical hindu view) and it has no real ethical or moral teachings. Trying to make it a religion without an underlying morality is dangerous. Yet many TBs seem to make it a religion. And, after all, the TMO says it is NOT a religion. (6) Given the exaggerated claims, the unproven benefits, why would anyone then buy into the siddhis, the food supplements, the natural law party, the vastu architecture, the pulse diagnosis, the yagyas, the consciousness based education, all the things that the movement wants to sell? A rational person would want damn good evidence. Or they would have to be religious about it, taking these things on faith because they trust what their religion says about these things. Well, I already have concluded that as a religion the movement fails. And it professes not to be a religion anyway. I already have concluded that I do not trust MMY enough to take his pronouncements on faith alone. Thanks the the forum for helping me think through what I believe.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: On Maharishi Channel now
On Feb 10, 2008, at 12:14 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Maharishi bet on the wrong horses IMO. He chose people with zero personal charisma. I've never understood this one either, Curtis. Not only picking those with the least personal charisma, but then having them dress like Brooks Bros clones. If he wanted to let his teaching have a chance of continuing after his death, he should have started grooming Ravi Shankar when I met him in India in 80 Ravi was one of the best-looking men I'd ever seen when I met him, so I couldn't agree more. :) Sal
[FairfieldLife] Some random thoughts
So, I guess Deepak Chopra is breathing a sigh of relief. He could have been in Tony Nadar's position dressed up as Roger Ramjet. Among other things I think he probably so this kind of silliness coming. It seemed Maharishi was gromming Deepak to take over the movement. I'm glad Deepak got out. He took the teachings he learned and kept them away from all the silliness and the dysfunctional middle management that had grown. Talk about your Peter Principle in action. Deepak seems like the kind of guy you could probably have a beer with and talk in non-movement speak about stuff. Tony is a parrot and seems like the kind of person who would say sh*t even if he had a mouthful. In regards to the post on SNAP!: I think we will see a breakdown of the organization over time. So much of this TMO house of cards was based on the personality of MMY. Now, that his darshan is no longer available, nobody is too worried about excommunication, etc. What knowledge MMY had to give to the world is given (barring any lost Honeymooner's Episodes yet to be released). No new techniques, etc. My prediction for the first SNAP! will be the teachers in Fairfield getting better pay and benefits. And they deserve it.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of lurkernomore20002000 Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:56 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sri Sri Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was Ned Wynne's terminology. Not one of the ladies. Thanks Rick. I don't want to get you bogged down in the whole issue again, but who, again, is New Wynne, and what is his POV- neutral, or does he have an agenda? He was one of MMY’s secretaries back in the Mallorca era. He’s not neutral. Pretty negative I’d say. But funny as hell. Good writer. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.0/1268 - Release Date: 2/9/2008 11:54 AM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Do you still practice TM but not believe in MMY?
I don't have anything to add to the discussion - I think of this post as merely a vote to your OP - in the interest of a tally in whatever column you feel fit. yes, I still do TM, but I never 'practiced' it as I was pretty damn good at it right from the get go :) but I have a couple of kids and at night I return to a house of chaos so it is rare that I meditate in the PM - but I do a full-fledged IA program in the AM Speaking of IA - I went to FFL in November for the first time since - well the last time I was there someone pointed out to me where the temporary trailers were going to go . . . ha ha so I goes to the dome for 4 days last fall and I had profound and clear programs and really got my batteries charged. I wouldn't give up my TM Sidhi program up for nothin' Now on to the MMY part, I am a Vedanta kinda guy, and I find MMY's discourse clear,concise and intellectually satisfying. However, when the topic migrated to ayurveda, architecture and etc, I lost interest pretty fast. Likewise, when discussions turn to the TMO, and money or rumors - I am not interested - to me, MMY understands the mind, transcendent . . . you know all that vedanta/sankhya stuff . . . and he can convey it like no other. I believe in MMY because I believe in Vedanta - because I believe in Self.
