[FairfieldLife] Starwheel -- the Milky Way seen in time-lapse photography
I love this short clip. Time lapse photography often captures the lapse of attention that happens to us when we get caught up in time and forget to notice what's going on over our heads. http://tv.gawker.com/5485803/beautiful-time-lapse-of-the-milky-way-over-hawaii Starwheel, by Bruce Cockburn, 23 January 1975 Orion's high in the south-west sky -- You're bound to move on and so am I On this world we've had time to burn -- how come nobody ever seems to learn? See how the starwheel turns. Crystal drift on the whistling wind -- Constant change is the space we're in You may use a slide rule or a golden crown But nothing's worth it that you can pin down -- See how the starwheel turns. Don't go playing no shell game with God -- Only Satan's going to give you odds We're given love and love must be returned -- That's all the bearings that you need to learn See how the starwheel turns. Short audio clip: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amgsql=33:w9fyxz85ldse
[FairfieldLife] Vedas and the Human DNA, part 1
Here's an interesting documentary. The sound quality is excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RLhXhMWGZYfeature=related
Re: [FairfieldLife] It's not a sin if you can make a buck off of it. - Luke 3:16
On Mar 6, 2010, at 1:43 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: he Vatican has been thrown into chaos by reports that one of the Pope's ceremonial ushers, as well as a member of the elite Vatican choir, were involved in a homosexual prostitution ring. It's the gift that keeps on giving... ... The Catholic Church has weathered a storm of controversy in recent years over allegations of sexual abuse by its members. Whilst homosexuality is not outright condemned within the Church, it is taught that homosexual acts are are intrinsically disordered. Hmmm--I wonder whatever happened to, Judge not... Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Live TM Theatre
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Qu7a2lbkw the end, praising Da King as the embodiment of silence, and suggesting that the entire future of the movement depends on having such a dedicated, one-pointed, and above all celibate and unmarried person such as himself at the helm of it. Interesting you landed on that last moment too. I backed the video up acouple times just to listen to that last sentence or two. There came the mission statement. Interesting that you would see relying on one individual to do it all for you as a mission statement. Then again, isn't that what everyone did with Maharishi?
[FairfieldLife] What is Raj Raam's job description?
After replying to Buck earlier about the different ways we saw the recently-posted video of Raj Raam and Raja Hagelin and Jerry, it occurred to me that I'd really like to hear Raj Raam's *job description*. Is there an official, TMO-certified description of who he is and what his duties are? I'd sure love to read it if anyone knows of anything like this.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoost...@... wrote: snip As to repudiated Vedanta, Prakashanand has commented of his time as SBS's attendant that SBS was, while Shankaracharya, still seeking enlightenment, and that the ideal goal is not jivanmukti but, as you say, inconceivable oneness and difference'... and the relation of...Radha and Krishna and as pointedly, eternity in Vrindavan with Krisn, perhaps a sort of Christian sounding goal? Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. FWIW, MMY addresses the difference in his Gita commentary (on 6:32): Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Whether they play with God or hold Him as one with their own Being is a point to be settled between them and God. They live as devotees of God or they become united, become one with their Beloved--it is a matter between them. Let it be decided on that level of Union. One view need not exclude the other. It is a sin against God to raise differences over the principle of Union. Let the followers of both schools of thought aspire to achieve their respective goals and then find in that consciousness that the other standpoint is also right at its own level. Sin against God is pretty strong language for Maharishi.
[FairfieldLife] From Junior Capitalist to Social Activist
http://bigthink.com/ideas/18172
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: snip As to repudiated Vedanta, Prakashanand has commented of his time as SBS's attendant that SBS was, while Shankaracharya, still seeking enlightenment, and that the ideal goal is not jivanmukti but, as you say, inconceivable oneness and difference'... and the relation of...Radha and Krishna and as pointedly, eternity in Vrindavan with Krisn, perhaps a sort of Christian sounding goal? Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. FWIW, MMY addresses the difference in his Gita commentary (on 6:32): Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Whether they play with God or hold Him as one with their own Being is a point to be settled between them and God. They live as devotees of God or they become united, become one with their Beloved--it is a matter between them. Let it be decided on that level of Union. One view need not exclude the other. It is a sin against God to raise differences over the principle of Union. Let the followers of both schools of thought aspire to achieve their respective goals and then find in that consciousness that the other standpoint is also right at its own level. Sin against God is pretty strong language for Maharishi. At least from my experience there never was a more liberal person than Maharishi who, as I saw it on a daily basis, lived inclusion every moment of His life. That's impossible to understand as such, but nevertheless it was my experience. That's how I interperet the quote. There was only this principle that mattered at the end of the day; Love. Beautiful, thanks for posting this !
[FairfieldLife] How to Value the World; Raj Patel
http://bigthink.com/ideas/18174
[FairfieldLife] How the World Bank Makes Everything Worse: Raj Patel
http://bigthink.com/ideas/18173
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rachel Maddow gets arrested as Al Qaeda sympathizer !!!
The other night, on Jay Leno, Jay reported that doctors found no polyps duringObama'srecent colonoscopy, but did find a few MSNBC anchors and a New York Times reporter! From: ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@netscape.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, March 5, 2010 4:00:35 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Rachel Maddow gets arrested as Al Qaeda sympathizer !!! Actually, Maddow is neither of Irish nor Russian heritage. She's Greek. She hails from one of those beautiful islands in the Aegean Sea. The Island of Lesbos, I believe. --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, do.rflex do.rf...@.. . wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, It's just a ride bill.hicks. all.a.ride@ wrote: On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:54 PM, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: http://vodpod. com/watch/ 3174087-rachel- maddow-on- liz-cheney That was funny. But isn't Rachael Jewish? Wouldn't that mean the State of Israel is Al Quaeda? FWIW . . . Q: Is Rachel Maddow Jewish? A: No She is not Jewish. Her Mother is from Canada and is of Irish decent, and her Father of Russian descent. Rachel Maddow was raised as a Catholic. On the January 28, 2010 episode of The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, Maddow said she was distantly Jewish during an interview with Tracey Ullman. http://wiki. answers.com/ Q/Is_Rachel_ Maddow_Jewish
[FairfieldLife] Re: Omnipresence
John Jr: ...the point being made is that the Vaishnavas believe Krishna to be the Supreme Personality who descended on earth at various times in human history to eliminate evil and bring dharma to the world. Vishnuism is a monotheisitic religion, based on the Vedanta. Although Lord Krishna *appears* to be a part of prakriti, He is really existing in the *transcendental* field. That's why He is called the 'Transcendental Person.' As I pointed out in a previous post, there are similarities between Vishnuism and Christianity, which came later. But there are also many subtle differences. Gaudiya Vaishnavas believe that consciousness is not a product of matter, but is really a 'symptom' of the 'soul'; the souls are distinct and separate from the prakriti, but at the same time, prakriti is illusory maya, which is not real, yet not unreal either. Because of the effects of maya, we are captivated by the illusory nature of matter, and are repeatedly reborn into samsara to suffer from the effects of karma and selfish desire. Vishnuism agrees with most of the tenets of Hinduism concerning the nature of samsara, the Purusha, and the prakriti. In order to be released from the binding influence of karma, you must go to the *transcendenatl field* to see the Lord Krishna and witness His eternal pastimes. This is accomplished by the process of yoga, especially bhakti yoga, as taught by the Acharya Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Bengali Vaishnavism is the 'Gaudiya Sampradaaya founded in Gaudiya India, (circa 1500 AD). The Gaudiya Vaishna doctrine is the 'achintya-bheda-bheda' school of Vedanta, which espouses 'inconceivable oneness and difference' (achintya-bheda-bheda). This is a very subtle epistemology, not quite as simple as you describe. Lord Krishna is totally separate from the prakriti, but He *appears* to 'come down to earth', but in reality, He always remains the Transcendent. According to Swami Prabhupada, it is inconcievable how the Lord can be one, and at the same time, different. I spent two years attending services and listening to lectures at ISKCON studying Gaudiya Vishhnuism (3764 Watseka Avenue) in Los Angeles. Hope this helps, John Jr! See my post 'A Very Brief Outline of the South Asian Systems of Philosophy and Heterodox Epistemology': FairfieldLife/message/242960 You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth. You are the eternal, transcendental, original person, the unborn, the greatest... - Bhagavad-Gita 10.12-13
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip I was amused to find that I wasn't the only person to have reacted negatively to the term women's work. Here's a comment from the Web site on that part of the post, and his reply (which addresses your concerns as well): - I am very much behind you in most of your Cheaponomics statements, but find your statement concerning womens' work beyond offensive. Oh, yes, please, just pay me for my life of drudgery instead of requiring that husbands/companions and fathers share in this work. Instead,shouldn't the suggestion be to eradicate this scourge of the women of this world, the out- dated patriarchal society that still thrives world-wide today, even in such enlightened countries as my own U.S.? Patel responds: You're right, Victoria I think we need a three part approach (and I learned this from Diane Elson, one of the feminist economists whose ideas shaped The Value of Nothing). When it comes to domestic labour, we need to Recognise, Redistribute and Reduce. Recognise means to appreciate that the labour is actually taking place, yes. and is an ongoing subsidy to capitalism. I think thats backwards, or sideways. How so? (Not challenging you, just not sure what you mean.) There's a bit of a debate around whether paying for domestic labor defeats the purpose but that's why I think something like a basic income grant is good it severs the link between work and income, and moves us to a new way of thinking about how we earn and pay for things. He hasn't made much of a case her, or yet. Nope. But this was just a response to a comment on his blog. I suspect he goes into it in greater detail in his book; and presumably the feminist economist he mentions has worked it out as well. The second part is Redistribute: domestic labour needs, actively, to be redistributed away from women so that it is equitably shared. Yes. And finally, the work needs to be reduced insofar as we can come up with ways and technologies for reducing the amount of work that has to be done in the first place. OK -- but he doesn't really make the case for the negative income tax / basic income idea (just thinking out loud, not arguing with you or any one). I don't know enough about it to take an informed position either way. I'm intutively dubious about severing the link between work and income, though. snip However, in a post industrial society -- we are not yet there but one can contemplate nano-engineering, vast cheap, energy cheap from algae etc, new building materials, Internet based tele-medicine, real time monitors of a huge array of bio status, etc that a basic standard of living could cheap and a case could be made to ensure such -- the benefits to society -- beyond compassion -- would be that such would make currently homeless and severely deprived able to make more of a social contribution -- with everyone benefiting. But where's the incentive to make that contribution? Would it work if it didn't motivate everyone in that situation to do so? What percentage of people would have to run with it? What's the maximum percentage of folks who chose to just sit back and collect that the system could sustain without collapsing? Right-wingers always grouse that the economic safety net we have now destroys incentive, but they focus on the folks who sit back rather than those who use it properly to climb out of poverty. What's the proportion of the two that's necessary to ensure the system doesn't become self-defeating? But I would like to see a link to life-long learning and life-long entrepreneurialship (along the lines of everyday small business creation.) Give domestic workers, male or female, micro loans to create small businesses -- and loans or grants to get more education and skill sets -- rather than income grants. Sounds good to me. But it also sounds rather Utopian, as does Patel's approach. Both are up against huge entrenched economic and social and power structures and ways of thinking. It's refreshing to hear about possible alternatives, and obviously being able to envision them in the first place is a prerequisite to implementing these kinds of changes, but are they even remotely feasible in light of what exists now? Does it make sense to get all involved in contemplating how something so revolutionary would work if it takes time and energy away from doing what's currently possible around the edges?
[FairfieldLife] Climate Denial Crock of the Week - The Video Series
The collected videos of Peter Sinclair's excellent Climate Denial Crock of the Week series: All videos at link: http://snipurl.com/unzam [greenfyre_wordpress_com] MYTH: Stolen CRU emails prove (Insert lie/fable) Smacking the Hack Attack http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#smacking MYTH: Fighting climate change hurts the poor Denial was a River in Africa http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#denial MYTH: The Medieval Warm Period proves climate change is natural (and the Hockey Stick is broken Myth) The Medieval Warming Crock http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#medieval MYTH: The EPA censored scientist Alan Carlin Creepy at the EPA http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#creepy MYTH: Arctic ice is recovering Polar Ice Update: http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#polar Arctic Perennial Ice and Methane Ice Area vs Volume http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#ice : Debunking the Ice is back to 1979 levels idiocy (see also here) MYTH: The climate models are unreliable This Year's Model http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#this : Climate models and modeling MYTH: Climate change is good for plants and crops Don't it make my Green World Brown http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#dont : CO2 and plant growth MYTH: Water vapour, not CO2 is driving climate change The Big Mist Take http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#big MYTH: CO2 is not driving climate change Sense from Deniers on CO2? Don't hold your breath . http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#sense MYTH: The lag shows CO2 does not cause climate change The Temp leads Carbon Crock http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#temp http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#temp MYTH: Climate change ended in 1998 aka decade of cooling 1998 Revisited http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#1998 Party like it's 1998 http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#party MYTH: Scientist Mojib Latif predicts decade of a decade of cooling Birth of a Climate Crock http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#birth MYTH: Sea levels are not rising, or not like they said All Wet on Sea Level rise http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#all MYTH: 30,000 scientists signed a petition The great Petition Fraud http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#great : MYTH: Other planets warming prove it's the sun Mars Attacks!! http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#mars MYTH: Weather stations are unreliable Watts Up With Watts? http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#watts The Urban Heat Island Crock http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#urban MYTH: They were predicting global cooling in the 1970s I Love the 70s!! http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#love : CAUTION: may contain disco music [;-)] MYTH: It's a natural 1500 year cycle That 1500 Year Thing http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#1500 MYTH: The Hockey Stick is broken Medieval Warming? http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#medieval ( the Hockey Stick) MYTH: It's the Sun /or Sunspots Solar Schmolar http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#solar : Debunking the It's the Sun fable MYTH: A cold day in proves climate change isn't happening It's cold. So there's no Climate Change http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/denier-myths-debunked/\ climate-denial-crock-of-the-week/#cold You can subscribe to Peter's Youtube Channel at YouTube greenman3610
[FairfieldLife] Re: Live TM Theatre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Qu7a2lbkw Interesting you landed on that last moment too. I backed the video up acouple times just to listen to that last sentence or two. There came the mission statement. Interesting that you would see relying on one individual to do it all for you as a mission statement. Then again, isn't that what everyone did with Maharishi? Yep. this drama since MMY is what is showing in the video. Within the drama of discovery since MMY, something significant in character is Hagelin's lack of projected leadership. He's being mighty delicate. Some lot of the meditating community have been waiting watching where they are going to go with it all. And how in character they are going to do it. Obviously they (the movement community) are doing things. Things departmentalized. Little said that is cohesive of it all given the past. Much reconciliation? Not really that voice there yet either. Evidently still figuring out what they have. Disparate you got DLF, Western Rajas living and meeting still in Holland at the old European campus there. The Global Country Rajas around/Vedic City, the Vedic City Pundits project, MUM and its various programs, and then there is India. Lot of different people. In that room on the video, a few characters stand out but none able to say, This is what we are, for these reasons this is where we are going, and this is how we are going to do it. Consistently in less than a paragraph. The last part of that last sentence in the video started to be that. That it is based on our spiritual experience, with this that we go forward. He was just getting his tongue around it as his part in the video ended. The video is a fascinating picture of TM in time. That is what i see in watching it from FF. It will be interesting to see when they pull it down from the net. -Buck
[FairfieldLife] Is there a scientific consensus on global warming?
http://www.skepticalscience.com/ Is there a scientific consensus on global warming? Link to this page http://www.skepticalscience.com/link_to_us.php?Argument0=17 The skeptic argument... The Petition Project features over 31,000 scientists signing the petition stating there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide will, in the forseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere. (Petition Project http://www.petitionproject.org/ ) SEE: The Great Petition Fraud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py2XVILHUjQ What the science says... That humans are causing global warming is the position of the Academies of Science from 19 countries plus many scientific organisations that study climate science. More specifically, 97% of climate scientists actively publishing climate papers endorse the consensus position. Inevitably, there will be scientists who are skeptical about man-made global warming. A survey of 3146 earth scientists asked the question Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures? (Doran 2009 http://tigger.uic.edu/%7Epdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf ). More than 90% of participants had Ph.D.s, and 7% had master's degrees. Overall, 82% of the scientists answered yes. However, what is most interesting is responses compared to the level of expertise in climate science. Of scientists who were non-climatologists and didn't publish research, 77% answered yes. In contrast, 97.5% of climatologists who actively publish research on climate change responded yes. As the level of active research and specialization in climate science increases, so does agreement that humans are significantly changing global temperatures. Figure 1: Response to the survey question Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures? (Doran 2009 http://tigger.uic.edu/%7Epdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf ) General public data come from a 2008 Gallup poll http://www.gallup.com/poll/1615/Environment.aspx . Most striking is the divide between expert climate scientists (97.4%) and the general public (58%). The paper concludes It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes. The challenge, rather, appears to be how to effectively communicate this fact to policy makers and to a public that continues to mistakenly perceive debate among scientists. Scientific organisations endorsing the consensus The following scientific organisations endorse the consensus position that most of the global warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities: * American Association for the Advancement of Science http://www.aaas.org/news/press_room/climate_change/ * American Astronomical Society http://aas.org/governance/resolutions.php%23climate#climate * American Chemical Society http://portal.acs.org/portal/fileFetch/C/WPCP_011538/pdf/WPCP_011538.pd\ f * American Geophysical Union http://www.agu.org/sci_pol/positions/climate_change2008.shtml * American Institute of Physics http://www.aip.org/gov/policy12.html * American Meteorological Society http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2007climatechange.html * American Physical Society http://www.aps.org/policy/statements/07_1.cfm * Australian Coral Reef Society http://www.australiancoralreefsociety.org/pdf/chadwick605a.pdf * Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society http://www.amos.org.au/publications/cid/3/t/publications * British Antarctic Survey http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/bas_research/science/climate/position-state\ ment.php * Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences http://cfcas.org/pressrelease1Dec05e.htm * Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society http://www.cmos.ca/climatechangepole.html * Environmental Protection Agency http://epa.gov/climatechange/index.html * European Federation of Geologists http://www.eurogeologists.de/images/content/panels_of_experts/co2_geolo\ gical_storage/CCS_position_paper.pdf * European Geosciences Union http://www.egu.eu/fileadmin/files/egustatement.pdf * European Physical Society http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:rXA5d27-secJ:academiaeuropaea.ift.u\ ib.no/physics/EPS-2.pdf+European+Physical+Society+position+nuclear+optio\ n+paperscd=4hl=enct=clnkgl=usclient=safari * Federation of American Scientists http://www.fas.org/press/statements/_docs/08grand_challenges.html * Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies http://www.fasts.org/images/policy-discussion/statement-climate-change.\ pdf * Geological Society of America http://www.geosociety.org/positions/position10.htm * Geological Society of Australia http://www.gsa.org.au/pdfdocuments/management/GreenhouseGasEmissionsCl\
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the World Bank Makes Everything Worse: Raj Patel
I particularly enjoyed this. Thanks for link. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: http://bigthink.com/ideas/18173
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jyoti Ashram: Sannyasins or Swindlers?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_re...@... wrote: Déjà vu just look at the picture CROWN AND WHITE ROBES
Re: [FairfieldLife] Vedas and the Human DNA, part 1
Yeah thanks. I always thought the Ved would be the best place to look for info on genetics. Or the Torah. On Mar 6, 2010, at 3:23 AM, John wrote: Here's an interesting documentary. The sound quality is excellent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RLhXhMWGZYfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! Immanual Kant and Arthur Schopenhauer seem to agree with many Indian doctrines concerning the notion of transcendental, subjective idealism. ...was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise... Yes, there is disagreement, but there is also much agreement. The main difference between the Vedantists is that some believe that Chaitanya (circa 1500 AD), was an Avatar - Madhva, Nimbarka, and Vallbha do not agree with this, but otherwise agree concerning the Vedanta. Vishnuism follows most of the common Hindu doctrines, but with some very subtle differences. According to Swami Prakashananda Saraswati, Bhakti Yoga is the 'yoga of devotion'. The process of Bhakti Yoga involves 'raganuga' *spontaneous* devotional service, based on an acquired, selfless desire to serve (seva) one's chosen Ishta-deva. Rupa Gosvami, the author of 'Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu', compared bhakti to an unbroken flow of oil from one vessel to another, transcendent, vessel. Read more: Subject: Simple sincere feelings, devotion, and a sense of service Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: December 13, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/yg97ou6 According to Swami Bhaktivedanta Saraswati: O Arjuna, the Vedic scriptures deal with the subjects in the three modes of the material nature. Become self-realized, transcendent to the three modes in pure spiritual consciousness, free from duality and free from conceptions of acquisition and preservation. Work cited: 'Bhagavad Gita As It Is', Chapter 2 verse 45.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is Raj Raam's job description?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: After replying to Buck earlier about the different ways we saw the recently-posted video of Raj Raam and Raja Hagelin and Jerry, it occurred to me that I'd really like to hear Raj Raam's *job description*. Is there an official, TMO-certified description of who he is and what his duties are? I'd sure love to read it if anyone knows of anything like this. I would think its along the lines of: Infusing the world with akashic silence, removing deep subtle obstacles to progress, and nourishing nature's power of self organization. First question is -- is such a thing possible? Not can RajT do that, but could anyone do that. I am enough of a spiritual romantic to think this sort of thing is possible, that there have been some saints that have this skill and influence. More plausible on a local level. On a global level, thats more iffy, but hope sprints eternal. Second question: Can RajT do that? Who knows. Outer appearances don't really correlate well with inner ripeness. Is it possible? I can't with absolute surety say no. Third Q: does it make much difference -- that is is it a strong effect or a real, but very subtle, hard to detect thing. Not sure. I can see in my mind's eye how that could work, and how it could be a strong effect. However, thats a long ways from detecting any discernible effect. But even if its fantastic -- a fantasy but a glorious one, it at least is wonderful art and participatory theater -- both of which can have quite a positive effect in breaking peoples internal boundaries, and giving a higher sense of what is possible. Drawing on the vast richness of such art and theater of the 60's: did sticking daisy in national guards guns at the front lines of mass protests really have any chance of stopping bullets? Of course not. But it was as hugely powerful image. A collective yes we can moment. Same with the stated intent of the mass protest at the Pentagon -- to levitate the Pentagon in the air. Was that feasible. Of course not. But that image, that theater, was powerful enough to shatter 10 million collective inner boundaries on what was possible. And guess what. The consequence of those 10 million shattered inner boundaries perhaps drove possible the most political savy president ever to drop out -- not run for re-election. Or the March on Washington. It was only words. But the collective, in sychn inner strength and outpouring was magical, IMO. It was art -- but powerfully transformative. Can RAjT and the other big hat bandidos create art that powerful?Probably not -- from what I have seen. But who knows what images can be made and which stick over time.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:36 AM, WillyTex wrote: According to Swami Prakashananda Saraswati, Bhakti Yoga is the 'yoga of devotion'. According to Swami Prakashananda Saraswati, fingering little girls is where it's at. Apparently, it's just like fingering the goddess. After all, this is Texas! Yee ha! Jai Guru Dev!
[FairfieldLife] Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! It's a pity that the Sikhs after their 10 Gurus now only consider the BOOK as their Guru Somewhat like the Christians see Bread Wine The textes are terrific and there is a VERY NON DUALITY LINE IN THE MIDDLE JAP JI : By the Grace of the One Supreme Being, The Eternal, The All-pervading Purusha, The Creator, Without Hate, Without Fear, The Being Beyond Time, Self-existent, The Enlightener, Incarnated. True at the Beginning, True in the Primeval age True is He and True He shall be. Thinking avails not, how so hard one thinks; Nor silence avails, howsoever one shrinks Into oneself. Nor hunger goes With the loads of the worlds. Of a myriad cleverness, not one works. How then to be True ? How rend the Veil of shame, untruth? His Will°°° forsooth Inborn in us, ingrained°°° in us, Thou follow. Thus is Truth attained The Mighty sing of His Might, and the Blessed of His Light, some sing that He is distant Far, . . some sing that He see-eth , watcheth All Oh Countless sing of countless things, . . He fills them all to overflowing. True is the Master, True is His Name, . . what offer to make to see His Court, What words to utter for His support? meditate thou in the Ambrosial morn on the true Name. THEY WHO HEARKEN TO THE WORD OF THE LORD, KNOW THE SKY THE EARTHS, THE BULL, THE ISLANDS, THE SPHERES AND UNDERWORLDS, Deathless become they who who hearken to the word, . . A devotee is foreever joyed and his pain and sin are destroyed. THEY WHO HEARKEN TO THE WORD OF THE LORD, fathom the deeps of virtue all, are Glorious like a King, a SHEIKH , a PIR Divine, . . even the Blind will see the Path Sublime. They who hear the Word , are the creations Cream, . . The are the ones approved suprime, . . are honoured in the court of God, -such beings-, look beautious in the Counsels of Kings they fix their minds on the one Master only they say and do what's thoughtful, Holy . . And know that Gods doings are beyond the count of us beings, - Who is it that supports them, . . 't is God, Whose eternal finger has writ the features, . . and color , kind and form of all creatures . . Oh, would one dare to write the account, . . How staggering the count How Great is His Power, . . How striking His Beauty, . . and of his gifts , Oh, who could tell with surity One Word and the whole Universe throbbed into being, and myriads rivers of Life came gushing, . . Powerless am I , Oh Lord , to describe what thy excellence be, . . sacrifice am I a myriad times unto thee, . . that what pleaseth Thee is the only good done, . . O THOU the Eternal The Formless One Countless the ways of Recitation, . . Countless the ways of Devotion, Countless the ways of worship, . . countless the aussterities, their hardships, . . Countless the books, . . countless the reciters, . .Countless the yogis, . .. Countless the men of piety, . .countless the men of merci Countless the devotees on Thee ruminate, . . in Silence meditate . . Countless the Heroes who face the steel, . . how powerless I feel Oh Lord, . . To tell what Thy Excellence be, . . sacrifice I am a myriad times unto Thee. That what pleaseth thee is the only good done, . . Oh Thou The Eternal, The formless One . Countless the Unwise in black ignorance reel, . . Countless the usurpers and those that steel, . . Countless the Rulers who force their way, . . . countless the cut-throats whom violence sways, . . Countless the sinners whom sin engages, . . countless the liars who wander in Mazes, . . Countless the wretches , . . have filth as fill, . . countless the slanderers, carrying loads of evil, . . This thinks Nanak, the lowliest of the lowly, . . Sacrifice I am unto Thee Oh Holy, . . That what pleaseth thee is the only good done, . . Oh Thou The Eternal, The formless One . Countless Thy Names, . .Countless thy Places, Oh Lord, . . Countless Thy Spheres beyond all thought, . . Oh count there cannot be, what power have I to tell what Thy excellence be, . . Sacrifice am I, a myriad times unto Thee. When the hands, feet , body are soiled, water washes them pure, . . When the clothes are spoiled soap cleans them sure, . . when the mind is polluted by sin and shame, 't s cleansed by the Love of The Name Oh Primal word, Nirankar , Hail to Thee, Thou that are Truth, ever-joy, Beauty, - How to describe Him . . know Him best, Yea, they say all they know , . . one wiser than the rest. Great is The Master, Great is His Name, - All that is proceeds from Him, . . He, who thinks of Himself much is vain, . . and will look small in God's Domain A King who's dominion is like an Ocean and has a Mind like a Mountain equals not a worm in whom dwells The Lord Limitless his praise, .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: snip According to Swami Bhaktivedanta Saraswati: (Actually, according to Krishna in the Gita, as translated by Bhaktivedanta.) O Arjuna, the Vedic scriptures deal with the subjects in the three modes of the material nature. Become self-realized, transcendent to the three modes in pure spiritual consciousness, free from duality and free from conceptions of acquisition and preservation. Work cited: 'Bhagavad Gita As It Is', Chapter 2 verse 45. The Vedas' concern is with the three gunas. Be without the three gunas, O Arjuna, freed from duality, ever firm in purity, independent of possessions, possessed of the Self.--MMY's translation of 2:45
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Go into any synagogue, chuch, or mosque anywhere in the world, and pick up a prayer book. You'll find the same prayer, and it will be the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind. Most assuredly it will. Thanks for enlightening us. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! It's a pity that the Sikhs after their 10 Gurus now only consider the BOOK as their Guru Somewhat like the Christians see Bread Wine The textes are terrific and there is a VERY NON DUALITY LINE IN THE MIDDLE JAP JI : By the Grace of the One Supreme Being, The Eternal, The All-pervading Purusha, The Creator, Without Hate, Without Fear, The Being Beyond Time, Self-existent, The Enlightener, Incarnated. True at the Beginning, True in the Primeval age True is He and True He shall be. Thinking avails not, how so hard one thinks; Nor silence avails, howsoever one shrinks Into oneself. Nor hunger goes With the loads of the worlds. Of a myriad cleverness, not one works. How then to be True ? How rend the Veil of shame, untruth? His Will°°° forsooth Inborn in us, ingrained°°° in us, Thou follow. Thus is Truth attained The Mighty sing of His Might, and the Blessed of His Light, some sing that He is distant Far, . . some sing that He see-eth , watcheth All Oh Countless sing of countless things, . . He fills them all to overflowing. True is the Master, True is His Name, . . what offer to make to see His Court, What words to utter for His support? meditate thou in the Ambrosial morn on the true Name. THEY WHO HEARKEN TO THE WORD OF THE LORD, KNOW THE SKY THE EARTHS, THE BULL, THE ISLANDS, THE SPHERES AND UNDERWORLDS, Deathless become they who who hearken to the word, . . A devotee is foreever joyed and his pain and sin are destroyed. THEY WHO HEARKEN TO THE WORD OF THE LORD, fathom the deeps of virtue all, are Glorious like a King, a SHEIKH , a PIR Divine, . . even the Blind will see the Path Sublime. They who hear the Word , are the creations Cream, . . The are the ones approved suprime, . . are honoured in the court of God, -such beings-, look beautious in the Counsels of Kings they fix their minds on the one Master only they say and do what's thoughtful, Holy . . And know that Gods doings are beyond the count of us beings, - Who is it that supports them, . . 't is God, Whose eternal finger has writ the features, . . and color , kind and form of all creatures . . Oh, would one dare to write the account, . . How staggering the count How Great is His Power, . . How striking His Beauty, . . and of his gifts , Oh, who could tell with surity One Word and the whole Universe throbbed into being, and myriads rivers of Life came gushing, . . Powerless am I , Oh Lord , to describe what thy excellence be, . . sacrifice am I a myriad times unto thee, . . that what pleaseth Thee is the only good done, . . O THOU the Eternal The Formless One Countless the ways of Recitation, . . Countless the ways of Devotion, Countless the ways of worship, . . countless the aussterities, their hardships, . . Countless the books, . . countless the reciters, . .Countless the yogis, . .. Countless the men of piety, . .countless the men of merci Countless the devotees on Thee ruminate, . . in Silence meditate . . Countless the Heroes who face the steel, . . how powerless I feel Oh Lord, . . To tell what Thy Excellence be, . . sacrifice I am a myriad times unto Thee. That what pleaseth thee is the only good done, . . Oh Thou The Eternal, The formless One . Countless the Unwise in black ignorance reel, . . Countless the usurpers and those that steel, . . Countless the Rulers who force their way, . . . countless the cut-throats whom violence sways, . . Countless the sinners whom sin engages, . . countless the liars who wander in Mazes, . . Countless the wretches , . . have filth as fill, . . countless the slanderers, carrying loads of evil, . . This thinks Nanak, the lowliest of the lowly, . . Sacrifice I am unto Thee Oh Holy, . . That what pleaseth thee is the only good done, . . Oh Thou The Eternal, The formless One . Countless Thy Names, . .Countless thy Places, Oh Lord, . . Countless Thy Spheres beyond all thought, . . Oh count there cannot be, what power have I to tell what Thy excellence be, . . Sacrifice am I, a myriad times unto Thee. When the hands, feet , body are soiled, water washes them pure, . . When the clothes are spoiled soap cleans them sure, . . when the mind is polluted by sin and shame, 't s cleansed by the Love of The Name Oh Primal word, Nirankar , Hail to Thee, Thou that are Truth,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages?
[FairfieldLife] A short Welcome Video: Raj Patel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WfV-ygFD1Afeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Re: Live TM Theatre
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: In that room on the video, a few characters stand out but none able to say, This is what we are, for these reasons this is where we are going, and this is how we are going to do it. Consistently in less than a paragraph. The last part of that last sentence in the video started to be that. That it is based on our spiritual experience, with this that we go forward. He was just getting his tongue around it as his part in the video ended. The video is a fascinating picture of TM in time. That is what i see in watching it from FF. It will be interesting to see when they pull it down from the net. -Buck Maharishi created the TMO Himself, it's His offspring. But from time to time he would ask almost disbelieving; who wants to work in administration ? As if He could not believe that someone wanted these positions. If you think only for a fraction of a second that the fellows who are running the Movement today are closest to Maharishi's heart please think again. Only a few of these souls have a fainth idea of what Maharishi did, and is continuing to do today for the inhabitants of this planet. He alone created Heaven on this Earth. Singlehandedly but based on a cosmic timing. He did not need a TMO, it was created for the evolution of certain individuals. If the TMO is a joke to you I'm pretty sure Maharishi would agree.
[FairfieldLife] --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
I bought it in Amritsar where is their Golden temple. Each time I read in it it gives me Goose Bumps and kind of tears Like with music I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True I bought 4 volumes - as said 1500 pages and it is all likewisely beautiful Yes I could take the heavy books apart and scan them but that will be destructive for the books and perhaps GOOGLE will do it I should check it out When typing, . . I thought if there s only One person who likes it it s worth to do it SO SIR or Lady Stein That's You !!! Ankhaton PS see my SHANDORA song on YouTube --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages?
[FairfieldLife] Raj Patel, The Difference Network, Marquette University
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU5zT1r5Fk8NR=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vedas and the Human DNA, part 1
Vaj: I always thought the Ved would be the best place to look for info on genetics. Or the Torah... Actually, in the Kaballah, esoteric teachings that explain the relationship between the eternal Creator and His finite creation, and the purpose of man's existence. The Kaballah explains the mystical aspects of the Torah and describes methods to aid in understanding how to attain spiritual realization.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: snip As to repudiated Vedanta, Prakashanand has commented of his time as SBS's attendant that SBS was, while Shankaracharya, still seeking enlightenment, and that the ideal goal is not jivanmukti but, as you say, inconceivable oneness and difference'... and the relation of...Radha and Krishna and as pointedly, eternity in Vrindavan with Krisn, perhaps a sort of Christian sounding goal? Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. FWIW, MMY addresses the difference in his Gita commentary (on 6:32): Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Whether they play with God or hold Him as one with their own Being is a point to be settled between them and God. They live as devotees of God or they become united, become one with their Beloved--it is a matter between them. Let it be decided on that level of Union. One view need not exclude the other. It is a sin against God to raise differences over the principle of Union. Let the followers of both schools of thought aspire to achieve their respective goals and then find in that consciousness that the other standpoint is also right at its own level. Sin against God is pretty strong language for Maharishi. Thanks Ruth, it is an interesting quote, and contains a lot of illuminating material. Not, for the avoidance of doubt, for the purpose of criticizing what MMY has said, nor what you have said, and thanks again Ruth for the quote, but only to talk about what it is that he is saying, the opening sentence is Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Vaishnavas consider that there is no such thing, and that to propose there is constitutes astounding ego and hubris. Christians of course would quite agree with Vaishnavas on that point. Vaishnavas understand there to be not one eternal truth in Unity, but 3 things that are eternal - the Godhead, who is NOT attribute less, but who is blue and plays a flute (that is one place where they part ways with their Christian brothers); individual souls, who are innumerable and without beginning or end, and therefore are both infinite and eternal in their own right, separate from the godhead; and the creation, which is likewise without beginning or end. I assume MMY knew all this and had it down cold from childhood. MMY ends finds...that the other standpoint is right at its own level. Levels, unlike perspectives, imply a hierarchy not two equally true perspectives, and there is little doubt that MMY meant to be inclusive in a patronizing sort of a manner. His sectarian view, his preferred system of Indian philosophy, holds that at a lower lever of consciousness there is duality, and at a higher level of consciousness there is unity. The Vaishnava viewpoint is that the goal of unity with god is a false doctrine. For the avoidance of doubt I do not ascribe to the Vaishnava view, so this is not meant to promote their view but only to state it as best I can. Sin against God is strong language, from MMY or from anyone else, and it is not unusual to reserve our strongest language for sectarian wrangling, which yes is what seems to be imbedded here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: I bought it in Amritsar where is their Golden temple. Each time I read in it it gives me Goose Bumps and kind of tears Like with music I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True I bought 4 volumes - as said 1500 pages and it is all likewisely beautiful Yes I could take the heavy books apart and scan them but that will be destructive for the books and perhaps GOOGLE will do it I should check it out When typing, . . I thought if there s only One person who likes it it s worth to do it SO SIR or Lady Stein That's You !!! Oh, dear...Whatever you're moved to do, you should do-- but I'm not comfortable being responsible for it! There are surely better reasons to do it. I'm touched by the thought, though. Do check with Google. Maybe it's never occured to them to put it online. But don't take your own copy apart. (I'm female, by the way.) Ankhaton PS see my SHANDORA song on YouTube --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages?
[FairfieldLife] Raj Patel at World Hunger Year Event; a message for Americans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2Mldx3r2rQNR=1
[FairfieldLife] Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6XB1JXhQwNR=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip I was amused to find that I wasn't the only person to have reacted negatively to the term women's work. Here's a comment from the Web site on that part of the post, and his reply (which addresses your concerns as well): - I am very much behind you in most of your Cheaponomics statements, but find your statement concerning womens' work beyond offensive. Oh, yes, please, just pay me for my life of drudgery instead of requiring that husbands/companions and fathers share in this work. Instead,shouldn't the suggestion be to eradicate this scourge of the women of this world, the out- dated patriarchal society that still thrives world-wide today, even in such enlightened countries as my own U.S.? Patel responds: You're right, Victoria I think we need a three part approach (and I learned this from Diane Elson, one of the feminist economists whose ideas shaped The Value of Nothing). When it comes to domestic labour, we need to Recognise, Redistribute and Reduce. Recognise means to appreciate that the labour is actually taking place, yes. and is an ongoing subsidy to capitalism. I think thats backwards, or sideways. How so? (Not challenging you, just not sure what you mean.) It seems to me that its off kilter, and somehow twisted. I could not well articulate it last night and not sure if I am up to it now. It sounds a bit parallel to Hitler (or any number of other extreme nationalists) glorifying motherhood and giving all gratitude to mother for raising fine you citizens and soldiers for the glory of the Reich. As if the intent of parents is to raise fodder for Capitalists (or Kapitalists). Oh honey, lets have kids so they can grow up to be ruthless investment bankers, rip off peoples life savings, and become grotesquely rich and out of touch with the rest of humanity. People generally have kids for private, personal reasons - love of spouse, wanting to carry on the family -- linking past and future, thinking they can do it better than past generations of parents, etc. But the term subsidizing capitalism may not have to do with intent (as addressed abve) but rather effect. Domestic workers could be seen as enabling capitalism -- getting the spouse dressed in ironed clothes, eating a nutritions breakfast, getting off to the train in time, entertaining the boss, etc. Well, I do all of those things for myself. And I don't feel that I am subsidizing capitalism. If anything capitalism is supporting and subsidizing the household unit. or at least supporting the household unit, enabling the household to scurry after its hopes and dreams. There's a bit of a debate around whether paying for domestic labor defeats the purpose but that's why I think something like a basic income grant is good it severs the link between work and income, and moves us to a new way of thinking about how we earn and pay for things. He hasn't made much of a case her, or yet. Nope. But this was just a response to a comment on his blog. I suspect he goes into it in greater detail in his book; and presumably the feminist economist he mentions has worked it out as well. Yes. I have read or heard little of his full rap. I hope he has articulated and organized his thoughts and articulated them in powerful and insightful ways. I have not seen copious evidence of that yet. I did see the Colbert clip. We are not paying the full environmental and social costs of the products we buy. Though an important point, its hardly a new or unique one. The second part is Redistribute: domestic labour needs, actively, to be redistributed away from women so that it is equitably shared. Yes. And finally, the work needs to be reduced insofar as we can come up with ways and technologies for reducing the amount of work that has to be done in the first place. OK -- but he doesn't really make the case for the negative income tax / basic income idea (just thinking out loud, not arguing with you or any one). I don't know enough about it to take an informed position either way. I'm intutively dubious about severing the link between work and income, though. Yeah, I am struggling with that too -- but open to a new framework where that might exist -- and with a productive outcome. To me, its important how one defines work and income. work can be 8-5 salaryman work. Or it can be all of life's activities. I was really working it dude, but she would have none of it. And income can mean paycheck -- or more broadly the richness of society as measured by educational levels, books read by the society, public debate, art produced, the degree
[FairfieldLife] Re: Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
I am certainly less impressed with this guy after this clip. He is advocating bringing motherhood, fatherhood and domestic life into the market economy -- to monetize it. Aside from being quite anti-humanistic, making the more precious and profound things in life to be part of the crass market economy, he seems oblivious to questions of implementation, incentives, abuse. Glib and fuzzy minded he is, thus far. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6XB1JXhQwNR=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: snip As to repudiated Vedanta, Prakashanand has commented of his time as SBS's attendant that SBS was, while Shankaracharya, still seeking enlightenment, and that the ideal goal is not jivanmukti but, as you say, inconceivable oneness and difference'... and the relation of...Radha and Krishna and as pointedly, eternity in Vrindavan with Krisn, perhaps a sort of Christian sounding goal? Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. FWIW, MMY addresses the difference in his Gita commentary (on 6:32): Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Whether they play with God or hold Him as one with their own Being is a point to be settled between them and God. They live as devotees of God or they become united, become one with their Beloved--it is a matter between them. Let it be decided on that level of Union. One view need not exclude the other. It is a sin against God to raise differences over the principle of Union. Let the followers of both schools of thought aspire to achieve their respective goals and then find in that consciousness that the other standpoint is also right at its own level. Sin against God is pretty strong language for Maharishi. At least from my experience there never was a more liberal person than Maharishi who, as I saw it on a daily basis, lived inclusion every moment of His life. That's impossible to understand as such, but nevertheless it was my experience. That's how I interperet the quote. There was only this principle that mattered at the end of the day; Love. Beautiful, thanks for posting this ! As to inclusive, we can toss that adjective around as it sounds very flattering, but MMY's TM group seems to have settled into what Christian fundamentalist groups would term Militant Fundamentalism 2nd degree of separation. On this topic, Wiki on [Christian] fundamentalism: Moderate Fundamentalists choose not to participate in events with groups who don't hold to [their] essential doctrines. This is 1st degree separation. A more extreme group of people who call themselves Fundamentalists, the Militant Fundamentalists, will not participate in events with other groups who, (though they have correct doctrine [analogously who practice TM]) participate in events with groups who do not hold to the essential doctrines [have gone to lectures by or about other gurus]. This is 2nd degree separation. Not allowed in the dome if you have correct doctrine but participate in events with groups who do not hold to the essential doctrines. If you believe yourself to have a higher teaching and find it important to be extreme, exclusive, or self righteous, so be it, maybe you are right. Maybe. Maybe not. But fundamentalists as a general matter do not applaud themselves as inclusive, only right, and probably TMO TB's should not either.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True The dangers of nonduality?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jyoti Ashram: Sannyasins or Swindlers?
Picture insertion: credit to John Manning Reason for delay: SHAKEN NOT STIRRED! [:)] Was just contemplating the outcome of Barry Wright waiting for me with his wakizashi and his katana in honte no kamae -stance as his usual welcome hug. In the moment I open the FF post messeag featurea earthquake with a magnitude of 6.4 strucked the place ! And the following tsunami warning(a false alarm) as well as gas leaks and minor fires and people trapped in elevators etc here as consequences of opening the messages- let me ask if this is a sign and the FF dude ranch chat group over there should be avoided and I am not welcome.. Pennyless even before the earthquake the FF dude ranch chat group should consider responsiblity to advise me. How abou watching 108 times Adbhut Shanti Yagya-Yagya http://tinyurl.com/ye2txzt http://tinyurl.com/ye2txzt
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: snip As to repudiated Vedanta, Prakashanand has commented of his time as SBS's attendant that SBS was, while Shankaracharya, still seeking enlightenment, and that the ideal goal is not jivanmukti but, as you say, inconceivable oneness and difference'... and the relation of...Radha and Krishna and as pointedly, eternity in Vrindavan with Krisn, perhaps a sort of Christian sounding goal? Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise. Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. FWIW, MMY addresses the difference in his Gita commentary (on 6:32): Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Whether they play with God or hold Him as one with their own Being is a point to be settled between them and God. They live as devotees of God or they become united, become one with their Beloved--it is a matter between them. Let it be decided on that level of Union. One view need not exclude the other. It is a sin against God to raise differences over the principle of Union. Let the followers of both schools of thought aspire to achieve their respective goals and then find in that consciousness that the other standpoint is also right at its own level. Sin against God is pretty strong language for Maharishi. Thanks Ruth, it is an interesting quote, and contains a lot of illuminating material. Not, for the avoidance of doubt, for the purpose of criticizing what MMY has said, nor what you have said, and thanks again Ruth for the quote, (It's Judy, not Ruth.) but only to talk about what it is that he is saying, the opening sentence is Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Vaishnavas consider that there is no such thing, and that to propose there is constitutes astounding ego and hubris. Sure, and MMY is clearly not in agreement with them in that regard. snip nice explanation of the Vaishnava perspective MMY ends finds...that the other standpoint is right at its own level. Levels, unlike perspectives, imply a hierarchy not two equally true perspectives However, earlier he says, Let it be decided on that level of Union--level, singular, but referring to both types of Union, as if both were on the same level. and there is little doubt that MMY meant to be inclusive in a patronizing sort of a manner. His sectarian view, his preferred system of Indian philosophy, holds that at a lower lever of consciousness there is duality, and at a higher level of consciousness there is unity. You could be right, but it seems to me that he's more interested in telling people who haven't achieved Union (of either flavor) that what's involved doesn't become clear until one *has* achieved Union, so they shouldn't be making judgments. And he indicates that those who are in Union of either flavor don't raise differences over the principle of Union but recognize that both flavors are equivalent. In other words, MMY is accepting the devotee type of Union as well as the one-with-the-Beloved type of Union, whereas the Vaishnavites (and Christians and others) he's addressing accept only the former. So I think you have to say his approach is more inclusive. He's preaching peaceful coexistence, not holding one view over the other. The Vaishnava viewpoint is that the goal of unity with god is a false doctrine. For the avoidance of doubt I do not ascribe to the Vaishnava view, so this is not meant to promote their view but only to state it as best I can. Understood. I haven't a clue which view is right, if either; and like you with the Vaishnavite view, I'm just trying to state what it seems to me MMY is saying, not advocate for it (except to whatever extent he's promoting tolerance of different views). Sin against God is strong language, from MMY or from anyone else, and it is not unusual to reserve our strongest language for sectarian wrangling And sometimes it's reserved for use *against* sectarian wrangling... , which yes is what seems to be imbedded here. ...which seems to me to be what MMY was doing. Whichever, it's interesting that he thought it important to make such a forceful statement about it. For those who preach tolerance of differing views, it's almost impossible not to get caught up in intolerance *for intolerant points of view*. I suspect that was the needle MMY was trying to thread here by bumping the controversy upstairs, as it were, and claiming it vanishes at the top.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Yes Like Denying Karma Conscience Jesus and Buddha attacked that ferociously I try what I can --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True The dangers of nonduality?
[FairfieldLife] Benjamin Creme on the role of Maitreya today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua73vvSBDb8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua73vvSBDb8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIeHa4tkxVMfeature=related
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! David Hume's Dialogues on Natural Religion are the Vedanta of Vedanta for me. By exposing the intrinsic contradiction in the very concept of God as being omnipotent omniscient and good when compared with the state of suffering in the world, he freed mankind from thousands of years of superstitious beliefs. We have seen explosive growth in every area of human knowledge that embraced this freedom. There is only one area of human knowledge left that has refused to have an honest discourse on whether the ideas make any sense. It is no surprise that this area, shielded from rational thought and objections to absurd assertions, produces people strapping bombs on their bodies to enter an imaginary afterlife. Immanual Kant and Arthur Schopenhauer seem to agree with many Indian doctrines concerning the notion of transcendental, subjective idealism. ...was not the merit of either view, but the fact that such disagreement exists between the wise... Yes, there is disagreement, but there is also much agreement. The main difference between the Vedantists is that some believe that Chaitanya (circa 1500 AD), was an Avatar - Madhva, Nimbarka, and Vallbha do not agree with this, but otherwise agree concerning the Vedanta. Vishnuism follows most of the common Hindu doctrines, but with some very subtle differences. According to Swami Prakashananda Saraswati, Bhakti Yoga is the 'yoga of devotion'. The process of Bhakti Yoga involves 'raganuga' *spontaneous* devotional service, based on an acquired, selfless desire to serve (seva) one's chosen Ishta-deva. Rupa Gosvami, the author of 'Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu', compared bhakti to an unbroken flow of oil from one vessel to another, transcendent, vessel. Read more: Subject: Simple sincere feelings, devotion, and a sense of service Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: December 13, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/yg97ou6 According to Swami Bhaktivedanta Saraswati: O Arjuna, the Vedic scriptures deal with the subjects in the three modes of the material nature. Become self-realized, transcendent to the three modes in pure spiritual consciousness, free from duality and free from conceptions of acquisition and preservation. Work cited: 'Bhagavad Gita As It Is', Chapter 2 verse 45.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: The irony is that his main theme is that the new capital for the 21st century is going to be the capital of 'giving'. ie. He is saying that true wealth in the future will come from giving. I understand he is an atheist. No problem there. But one of the last people I recall being so strident in this message, was Jesus H. Christ. That's an interesting observation you did here Steve. Would you like to elaborate ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ji_8tI0sbY Hey Nab, I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I was re-reading a book I had read about about 35 years ago about Jesus. Supposedly it was divined from the akashic records. But enough of that. I found the book to be authentic the first time I read it, and just as authentic the second time. But what I got from the book was that the overiding theme of Jesus's life was that he wa an unflinching champion of those who were wanting, or who were oppressed, or those victimized by others in power. And his prescriptons were radical. Along the lines of what Mr. Patel, and others of like mind recommend. I found the book to be so revealing that afterward I asked my son for a copy of the bible he used for his religon class (catholic school). I starting reading one of the gospels from this traditonal bible, and I was somewhat appalled. It was devoid of nuance, and it perverted the teaching I had just read to a great extent. Things like the virgin birth, (not in my version). Things like reincarnation (strongly alluded to in my version, expunged in traditional version) The last supper and the role of bread and wine. Much different meaning in my version as opposed to the traditional version. So, long story short. I just noticed the similiarities between Rajy Patel, and Jesus. And Jesus was definitely a believer in the higher power. Few have seen what you already have digested.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How to Value the World; Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: http://bigthink.com/ideas/18174 This guy is indeed great for demonstrating that one can be published and acquire substantial press without having any original thoughts, and by repeating some rather age old themes in inarticulate, unsubstantiated and rambling ways. More power to him for inspiring millions to write, publish and expound on new visions, concepts and frameworks to address world poverty and human happiness. He has wonderfully set the bar so low.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! David Hume's Dialogues on Natural Religion are the Vedanta of Vedanta for me. By exposing the intrinsic contradiction in the very concept of God as being omnipotent omniscient and good when compared with the state of suffering in the world, he freed mankind from thousands of years of superstitious beliefs. Er, Hume wasn't exactly the first to expose this contradiction. It's been argued about for millennia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Hi Judy - yes I was new here - this morning - I thought it was an ND Group - I don't relly bother to take it apart the books but the work, eventually for nothing and there are probably copyright issues - thanks for the advise I ll contact google library guys I have a friend died at 100 in 1999 named Paul, dutch like me, he visited Maharishi often in Kashmir the first years he was in say in business Ha Is this a 100% TM Group ? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: I bought it in Amritsar where is their Golden temple. Each time I read in it it gives me Goose Bumps and kind of tears Like with music I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True I bought 4 volumes - as said 1500 pages and it is all likewisely beautiful Yes I could take the heavy books apart and scan them but that will be destructive for the books and perhaps GOOGLE will do it I should check it out When typing, . . I thought if there s only One person who likes it it s worth to do it SO SIR or Lady Stein That's You !!! Oh, dear...Whatever you're moved to do, you should do-- but I'm not comfortable being responsible for it! There are surely better reasons to do it. I'm touched by the thought, though. Do check with Google. Maybe it's never occured to them to put it online. But don't take your own copy apart. (I'm female, by the way.) Ankhaton PS see my SHANDORA song on YouTube --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Live TM Theatre
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: If you think only for a fraction of a second that the fellows who are running the Movement today are closest to Maharishi's heart please think again. Only a few of these souls have a fainth idea of what Maharishi did, and is continuing to do today for the inhabitants of this planet. Secret Bootleg Video Tape of Maharishi Found Maharishi, talking out in his private chambers: I know I have Tony. A doctor. Harvard trained physiology researcher. Bright kid. And Haiglin, who once was writing oft referenced papers on String Theory, and my god, who on earth actually understands that stuff, and those richie rich rajas -- while boring, did have the smarts to make millions on their own, but ya know, none of these einstiens get me. Even though I have had some with me almost 24 / 7 for 20 years, none of them really get me, and what my mission and accomplishments really are. But hey, there was that one kid though, what 20-30 years ago, he spend maybe 2 hours with me in small groups, I hardly recall talking to him directly much, and his education was nothing to write home about, and he spent most of his time on UFOs, crop circles, and the coming Lord of the Universe (hey, hello!) -- but that kid, MAN, did he ever get me. He was I think the only one who ever really grasped what I was all about. What was that kid's name? damn, I can remember all of Rig Veda but can't remember his name. nabs something? camera fades.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
The irony is that his main theme is that the new capital for the 21st century is going to be the capital of 'giving'. ie. He is saying that true wealth in the future will come from giving. I understand he is an atheist. No problem there. But one of the last people I recall being so strident in this message, was Jesus H. Christ. That's an interesting observation you did here Steve. Would you like to elaborate ? Yep, a lot like some meditators up on the IA course here in FF. He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury; and he saw a poor widow put in two copper coins. And he said, Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them; for they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all the living that she had. Luke 20.21 Bevan did not say that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ji_8tI0sbY Hey Nab, I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I was re-reading a book I had read about about 35 years ago about Jesus. Supposedly it was divined from the akashic records. But enough of that. I found the book to be authentic the first time I read it, and just as authentic the second time. But what I got from the book was that the overiding theme of Jesus's life was that he wa an unflinching champion of those who were wanting, or who were oppressed, or those victimized by others in power. And his prescriptons were radical. Along the lines of what Mr. Patel, and others of like mind recommend. I found the book to be so revealing that afterward I asked my son for a copy of the bible he used for his religon class (catholic school). I starting reading one of the gospels from this traditonal bible, and I was somewhat appalled. It was devoid of nuance, and it perverted the teaching I had just read to a great extent. Things like the virgin birth, (not in my version). Things like reincarnation (strongly alluded to in my version, expunged in traditional version) The last supper and the role of bread and wine. Much different meaning in my version as opposed to the traditional version. So, long story short. I just noticed the similiarities between Rajy Patel, and Jesus. And Jesus was definitely a believer in the higher power. Few have seen what you already have digested.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! David Hume's Dialogues on Natural Religion are the Vedanta of Vedanta for me. By exposing the intrinsic contradiction in the very concept of God as being omnipotent omniscient and good when compared with the state of suffering in the world, he freed mankind from thousands of years of superstitious beliefs. We have seen explosive growth in every area of human knowledge that embraced this freedom. There is only one area of human knowledge left that has refused to have an honest discourse on whether the ideas make any sense. It is no surprise that this area, shielded from rational thought and objections to absurd assertions, produces people strapping bombs on their bodies to enter an imaginary afterlife. While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Live TM Theatre
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: In that room on the video, a few characters stand out but none able to say, This is what we are, for these reasons this is where we are going, and this is how we are going to do it. Consistently in less than a paragraph. The last part of that last sentence in the video started to be that. That it is based on our spiritual experience, with this that we go forward. He was just getting his tongue around it as his part in the video ended. The video is a fascinating picture of TM in time. That is what i see in watching it from FF. It will be interesting to see when they pull it down from the net. -Buck Maharishi created the TMO Himself, it's His offspring. But from time to time he would ask almost disbelieving; who wants to work in administration ? As if He could not believe that someone wanted these positions. If you think only for a fraction of a second that the fellows who are running the Movement today are closest to Maharishi's heart please think again. Only a few of these souls have a fainth idea of what Maharishi did, and is continuing to do today for the inhabitants of this planet. He alone created Heaven on this Earth. Singlehandedly but based on a cosmic timing. He did not need a TMO, it was created for the evolution of certain individuals. If the TMO is a joke to you I'm pretty sure Maharishi would agree. An observation and a question for His Nabbiness: I find it amusing that Maharishi held on to the reins of micromanagement almost to the last day of his life. If you'll recall, only about a month or two before his death he released a statement saying that he was giving up the day to day administration of the TMO and would now be devoting his time to the study of the Vedas (or something like that). He LIVED to micromanage the TMO and I believe this obsession of his contributed to the failure of the Movement. An anecdote that I believe I've shared before here points that out. On my 6 month course (perhaps Barry will remember this) at one point we had a course picture taken. But before it was sent to Maharishi to see, a course participant, Michael Yankaus, who was a designer or artist or something, on his own initiative, did a tracing of everyone in the group photo on a separate piece of paper, numbered each body traced, and then had a legend at the bottom of the name of each person and the country they represented. It was all quite beautiful and ornate...and I think he had it mounted on a canvass, framed, along with the group photo. It was worthy of a Super Bowl Winning Team collectible. Well, when Maharishi saw it, he was over the moon. He thought is was such a great thing that he issued an edict that, from now on, ALL courses would have group photos done like this. Instructions were drawn up and, if I'm not mistaken, Maharishi even had a broshure prepared and printed that had all the rules and instructions for how this was to be done. What struck me was how much time Maharishi devoted to this AND deemed it necessary for his troops and course participants to devote to this. Curious, I thought, that someone with a world plan could get diverted so easily and go off on a tangent on something that, relative to what he boldly wanted to accomplish (the spiritual regeneration of ALL mankind!), was of the most trivial value. But I learned that this incident in a way perfectly represented one of Maharishi's great shortcomings: his propensity to micromanage and NOT be able to see the forest for the trees. My question to Nabby (unrelated to the above): how do you feel about Maharishi appointing his blood relatives (e.g. Girish) to positions of importance in the Movement?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? Written in Gurmukhi script. The language, which is most often Sant Bhasha, is very close to Punjabi. Predominantly in archaic Punjabi with occasional use of other languages including Braj, Punjabi, Khariboli (Hindi), Sanskrit, regional dialects, and Persian, often coalesced under the generic title of Sant Bhasha It is well understood all over northern and northwest India and was popular among the wandering holy men. Persian and some local dialects have also been used. Many hymns contain words of different languages and dialects, depending upon the mother tongue of the writer or the language of the region where they were composed This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. http://tinyurl.com/mfz8gz http://tinyurl.com/mfz8gz Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages? The role of Guru Granth Sahib, as a source or guide of prayer When we go through the hymns and compositions of the Guru written in Sant Bhasha (saint- language), it appears that some Indian saint of 16th century. Singh, Kushwant (2005). A history of the sikhs. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195673085. English translation of the Guru Granth Sahib http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w Complete Guru Granth Sahib (66 hours), read meaning download gurmat softwares fonts http://tinyurl.com/yjhl69k http://tinyurl.com/yjhl69k Literature: Religion and Nationalism in India By Harnik Deol. Published by Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0415201 Singh, Kushwant (2005). A history of the sikhs. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195673085. The making of Sikh scripture by Gurinder Singh Mann. Published by Oxford University Press US, 2001. ISBN 0195130243, 9780195130249 [http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Sri_Guru_Gran\ th_Sahib_Nishan.jpg/220px-Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Nishan.jpg] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sri_Guru_Granth_Sahib_Nishan.jpg [http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0b/Guru_Granth_Sahib_\ By_Bhai_Pratap_Singh_Giani.jpg/220px-Guru_Granth_Sahib_By_Bhai_Pratap_Si\ ngh_Giani.jpg] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guru_Granth_Sahib_By_Bhai_Pratap_Sing\ h_Giani.jpg Literature: Religion and Nationalism in India By Harnik Deol. Published by Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0415201 Singh, Kushwant (2005). A history of the sikhs. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195673085. The making of Sikh scripture by Gurinder Singh Mann. Published by Oxford University Press US, 2001. ISBN 0195130243, 9780195130249
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the World Bank Makes Everything Worse: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: I particularly enjoyed this. Thanks for link. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: http://bigthink.com/ideas/18173 What did you enjoy, I am curious. I am not challenging your tastes, but I found little here. I am not a fan of the World Bank,, but his counter to them was a long, rambling, run-on monologue with no substantive points or substantiation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
BTW The hymns are grouped under ragas or classical musical compostions. The chronological arrangement is on the basis of ragas (I'm female, by the way.) [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:] [:]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages? The Guru Granth is a very interesting text, even if interest is only on a historical or sociological level. Syncretism can be a fascinating trip down the rabbit hole of history and its influences on man's belief systems. Getting your ass kicked for century after century by roving bands of fanatical religious mauradeers results in interesting stew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Granth_Sahib I would be surprised if a copy was not on display at a Gurdwara near you. http://www.sikh.net/Gurdwara/USA/G_NJ_NM.htm http://www.gurdwara.us/east-coast.html I have seen very modest Gurdwaras with strikingly embellished Illustrated Guru Granths displayed with great reverence. I have found both American and Indian Sikhs to be very openly interested in assisting people who wish a close inspection as long as they perceive reverence in the guest. The bulk of it is composed of Punjabi written in a script called Gurmukh#299; which is said to have been created for the task of holding the Granth. At least a dozen other languages besides Punjabi appear in the text. Translation is problematic for the same reasons that many followers of Islam insist that the Koran is not able to be accurately rendered in a language other than Arabic. http://www.jsks.co.in/sggs.htm I have seen and studied translations but, oddly, could not spot one online this morning. There must be one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The word socialist: be afraid, be very, very afraid.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: The goal was to lend a hand to the cosmic purpose of ending capitalism on this particular planet. Maharishi, the Master of Masters in this Age, with His onepointed focus, simply did just that. The growth of the movement was an example of his taking advantage of our free market regulation balance. He was able to start up a business and then not pay taxes because of the designation educational. In my view we need to be able to tax religions and spiritual groups like everyone else. The movement's non profit educational organization status seems dubious to me but they pulled it off. But Maharishi for all his posturing was a big fan and beneficiary of capitalism. He was just not a fan of freedom for others. yeah, even David Lynch says now the TM movement has no morals. Did you see the memo sent around this last week with the DL interview from Iceland? He admits what has been pretty clear. noun 1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. In the post-MMY era, is the movement re-setting to become more socialistic? Look at the SBS Trust and Global Country now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Qu7a2lbkw or MUM as community. The old ownership form of the movement was to extract capital from the means of production and the community as a whole and transfer that to the East. The goal was to lend a hand to the cosmic purpose of ending capitalism on this particular planet. Maharishi, the Master of Masters in this Age, with His onepointed focus, simply did just that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book English translation of the Guru Granth Sahib http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w Complete Guru Granth Sahib (66 hours), read meaning download gurmat softwares fonts http://tinyurl.com/yjhl69k http://tinyurl.com/yjhl69k What's the original language? The Guru Granth Sahib is written in Gurmukhi script. The language, which is most often Sant Bhasha, is very close to Punjabi. Predominantly in archaic Punjabi with occasional use of other languages including Braj, Punjabi, Khariboli (Hindi), Sanskrit, regional dialects, and Persian, often coalesced under the generic title of Sant Bhasha It is well understood all over northern and northwest India and was popular among the wandering holy men. Persian and some local dialects have also been used. Many hymns contain words of different languages and dialects, depending upon the mother tongue of the writer or the language of the region where they were composed. BTW: The hymns are grouped under ragas or classical musical compostions. The chronological arrangement is on the basis of ragas This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages? [=D] v The role of Guru Granth Sahib, as a source or guide of prayer When we go through the hymns and compositions of the Guru written in Sant Bhasha (saint- language), it appears that some Indian saint of 16th century incarnated. Singh, Kushwant (2005). A history of the sikhs. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195673085. Literature: Religion and Nationalism in India By Harnik Deol. Published by Routledge, 2000. ISBN 0415201 Singh, Kushwant (2005). A history of the sikhs. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195673085. The making of Sikh scripture by Gurinder Singh Mann. Published by Oxford University Press US, 2001. ISBN 0195130243, 9780195130249
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoostill@ wrote: snip (It's Judy, not Ruth.) Sorry, Judy. snip nice explanation of the Vaishnava perspective Thanks, very civil tone on your part, I aspire to that ideal. Understood. I haven't a clue which view is right, if either; and like you with the Vaishnavite view, I'm just trying to state what it seems to me MMY is saying, not advocate for it (except to whatever extent he's promoting tolerance of different views). Yes haven't a clue, me neither. For those who preach tolerance of differing views, it's almost impossible not to get caught up in intolerance *for intolerant points of view*. I suspect that was the needle MMY was trying to thread here by bumping the controversy upstairs, as it were, and claiming it vanishes at the top. I'm not so confident that it was his intention to find common ground, but so be it. One cannot imagine MMY any more than most other gurus or religious leaders starting a sentence I might be wrong and often am but what I think is..., or starting to express himself saying This is what I think, but what do you think? He saw himself and his thoughts, ideas and speech like he saw Vedic scripture and his SCI, knowledge that was perfect and complete. If he was right then he was also right to be intolerant and exclusive. If he was wrong then it was a tragic but common evangelist's error. Tragic but common. Well its one or the other and it is what it is. Here its hard to finish that I haven't a clue, as there are some clues hanging out there in plain view. Not, for the avoidance of doubt, moralizing to you or anyone else, I have no reason to think there is any of that you might disagree with. Just getting my thoughts down on paper on a saturday morning.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? That was the brilliant epistemological Copernican shift from the scripture says so to what is the evidence for that claim? From we have solved life's deepest mysteries to it is still a mystery. And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable. Of course you can't prove a negative so I can't prove that 72 virgins aren't going to meet the martyrs who blow themselves up. But the source of these ideas can be traced to human beings who created them. So for me, so far, I only have evidence for human imagination. If you have a source of knowledge that is different I would be happy to discuss it. It may be that after death one of the thousands of ideas humans have had about what happens does come true. Perhaps like on the Simpsons Christians will get to the pearly gates and and the guy at the front desk will say Oh sorry, the answer was Buddhist and send them to a fiery eternity. But I just haven't seen any credible evidence that any human has this specific knowledge and I don't believe that the beautiful works of literature in the scriptures has more authority than any other piece of man's writing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! David Hume's Dialogues on Natural Religion are the Vedanta of Vedanta for me. By exposing the intrinsic contradiction in the very concept of God as being omnipotent omniscient and good when compared with the state of suffering in the world, he freed mankind from thousands of years of superstitious beliefs. We have seen explosive growth in every area of human knowledge that embraced this freedom. There is only one area of human knowledge left that has refused to have an honest discourse on whether the ideas make any sense. It is no surprise that this area, shielded from rational thought and objections to absurd assertions, produces people strapping bombs on their bodies to enter an imaginary afterlife. While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: I bought it in Amritsar where is their Golden temple. Each time I read in it it gives me Goose Bumps and kind of tears Like with music I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True Please give us a break. Somehow I feel an appeal for money is going to be just around the corner. I bought 4 volumes - as said 1500 pages and it is all likewisely beautiful What did the old preacher say to the young preacher about preaching? If you don't strike gold in 10 minutes, stop boring So, 1500 pages of the same 'ol thou are this, and thou art that, the most supreme this, the most supreme that Yes I could take the heavy books apart and scan them but that will be destructive for the books and perhaps GOOGLE will do it I should check it out When typing, . . I thought if there s only One person who likes it it s worth to do it SO SIR or Lady Stein That's You !!! Ankhaton PS see my SHANDORA song on YouTube --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Adi Granth, . . Jap Ji - The Intro The Holy Book of the Sikhs , which is very close to the Truth : I typed it by hand with two fingers because this beautiful translation is not on the Web and it Should ! I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book. What's the original language? This is indeed beautiful, AnkhAton, thanks for posting it. And you're right, it *should* be on the Web. Could the text perhaps be scanned and run through OCR software? Or even post just the scanned images of the pages?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
Wow, I wonder if anyone is really going to read what is written below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoost...@... wrote: Thanks Ruth, it is an interesting quote, and contains a lot of illuminating material. Not, for the avoidance of doubt, for the purpose of criticizing what MMY has said, nor what you have said, and thanks again Ruth for the quote, but only to talk about what it is that he is saying, the opening sentence is Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Vaishnavas consider that there is no such thing, and that to propose there is constitutes astounding ego and hubris. Christians of course would quite agree with Vaishnavas on that point. Vaishnavas understand there to be not one eternal truth in Unity, but 3 things that are eternal - the Godhead, who is NOT attribute less, but who is blue and plays a flute (that is one place where they part ways with their Christian brothers); individual souls, who are innumerable and without beginning or end, and therefore are both infinite and eternal in their own right, separate from the godhead; and the creation, which is likewise without beginning or end. I assume MMY knew all this and had it down cold from childhood. MMY ends finds...that the other standpoint is right at its own level. Levels, unlike perspectives, imply a hierarchy not two equally true perspectives, and there is little doubt that MMY meant to be inclusive in a patronizing sort of a manner. His sectarian view, his preferred system of Indian philosophy, holds that at a lower lever of consciousness there is duality, and at a higher level of consciousness there is unity. The Vaishnava viewpoint is that the goal of unity with god is a false doctrine. For the avoidance of doubt I do not ascribe to the Vaishnava view, so this is not meant to promote their view but only to state it as best I can. Sin against God is strong language, from MMY or from anyone else, and it is not unusual to reserve our strongest language for sectarian wrangling, which yes is what seems to be imbedded here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: Is this a 100% TM Group ? Not at all. Because the focus is sort of about Fairfield Iowa, it attracts TMers, but a lot of the participants here are ex-TMers who may or may not have an anti-TM perspective.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: I think it is, but I may be deluded. And some of both is possible. Doing small things within the context and vision of the big thing would be best. You seem to be a thinker. Perhaps Raj Patel could sum things up, he is not adressing your thoughts. But perhaps we should start elswhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P03nNeYiJo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Benjamin Creme on the role of Maitreya today
That picture of Maitreya shows him with a some kind of headress with a big space on top. Usually that means he has a big fro. At least that is what I see with a lot of African American men who may want to play down the fro look, at least in public. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua73vvSBDb8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua73vvSBDb8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIeHa4tkxVMfeature=related
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:12 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Wow, I wonder if anyone is really going to read what is written below. Well other than to stop reading once one sees Vaishnavas believe blank since some will realize Vaishnavas are not a monolithic belief system, but a number of different belief systems centered around Vishnu, the ones who don't know that will think wow, that's interesting. The others will think wow, what a bunch of BS. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, metoostill metoost...@... wrote: Thanks Ruth, it is an interesting quote, and contains a lot of illuminating material. Not, for the avoidance of doubt, for the purpose of criticizing what MMY has said, nor what you have said, and thanks again Ruth for the quote, but only to talk about what it is that he is saying, the opening sentence is Fortunate are they who live in Union with God Vaishnavas consider that there is no such thing, and that to propose there is constitutes astounding ego and hubris. Christians of course would quite agree with Vaishnavas on that point. Vaishnavas understand there to be not one eternal truth in Unity, but 3 things that are eternal - the Godhead, who is NOT attribute less, but who is blue and plays a flute (that is one place where they part ways with their Christian brothers); individual souls, who are innumerable and without beginning or end, and therefore are both infinite and eternal in their own right, separate from the godhead; and the creation, which is likewise without beginning or end. I assume MMY knew all this and had it down cold from childhood. MMY ends finds...that the other standpoint is right at its own level. Levels, unlike perspectives, imply a hierarchy not two equally true perspectives, and there is little doubt that MMY meant to be inclusive in a patronizing sort of a manner. His sectarian view, his preferred system of Indian philosophy, holds that at a lower lever of consciousness there is duality, and at a higher level of consciousness there is unity. The Vaishnava viewpoint is that the goal of unity with god is a false doctrine. For the avoidance of doubt I do not ascribe to the Vaishnava view, so this is not meant to promote their view but only to state it as best I can.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: Yes Like Denying Karma Conscience Jesus and Buddha attacked that ferociously I try what I can Anakan, you are such a hero. But you CAN do it, I know you can. In the tradition of the great Buddha, and Jesus, comes Anakan Skywalker. Light saber in one hand, and 1500 page book of the most HOLY POEM in the other. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True The dangers of nonduality?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Omnipresence
Chaitanyas supposed lineage comes through Madhvacharya. Madhva is Dvaita. Completely at the opposite spectrum of Nimbarki's Dvaitadvaita. YET, Chaitanya upon entering Vrindavan decides to adopt Dvaitadvaita - and simply adds his 'Achintya' infront of it. Whereas Nibarki's is Svabhavika dvaitadvaita or svabhavika bhedabheda (natural unity in diversity); Chaitanya said his is inconcievable unity in diversity. i.e., that the relationship of God, the soul and the universe was one of unity in diversity. In Nibark Sampradaya they hold that it is important to understand Vedantic principles in order for their devotions to be based on correct fact. It therefore appears that Chaitanya was heavily influenced by their style of Devotion that was prevalent in Vrindavan when he arrived there. Shri Keshava Kashmiri Bhattacharya (Digvijayi) was a 13th Century leader of the Nimbarka Sampradaya; the most learned and powerful Acharya they have had in the modern times. He composed a VAST commentary on the Brahmasutras, the Bhagavadgita, the 11 upanishads, the Shrimad Bhagavatam. His crowning glory was his mastery of Vaisnava Tantra Agamas. He composed the Kramadipika outlining how Vaisnavas could acquire powers for the use of protecting themselves from Muslim attackers in addition to the proper method of worship and japa etc. HOWEVER, the Chaitanya's followers claim that Keshava was defeated by Chaitanya when he was just 12 years old (even though Chaitanya was 1500's and Keshava lived in the 1200's).
[FairfieldLife] Re: The word socialist: be afraid, be very, very afraid.
Okay and you would also want to police department to come if you had someone break into your house. And you would want the potholes in your streets and highways fixed to keep your car from being damaged. You probably like to walk in parks that are kept up. All these things are socialistic programs to maintain the commons. I am not so sure about that. Fire and police. parks and recreation, education, (and healthcare to an extent are services, fueled primarily by labor. They are not capital intensive -- a point I will return to. The above services can be private or public. We have a mix. While many are public there are vast numbers of private and public tennis and golf clubs,recreation area, private security forces, private schools. One for mis not intrinsically superior to the other in the quality of service provide or the efficiency with which it is delivered. Look at many public schools, low quality and high cost. But neither form, above is explicitly capitalistic or socialistic. Usually those terms refer to the ownership of capital. Technology is capital, Factories are capital. Chip fab plants are capital. people use capital to produce things, typically far more efficiently than by own labor exclusively. To be against capital is, well, insane, IMO. This cap / soc split is who owns the capital, and who makes the decision to invest in what type and how much new capital. And often this can lead to how to price the products and services that capital helps create. Fire dept and police, and many other public services, are labor intensive not capital intensive and tend to fall outside of traditional capitals and socialist models. in many cases, there is a if everyone doesn't get it, we are all screwed phenomenon. If I have fire dept service, and my neighbor doesn't his uncontrolled house fire might burn my house down. Ditto for police, public health, even the military etc. And education, if we have a bit part of society that is quite uninformed, has low critical thinking skills, has difficulties with abstract concepts, is a easy mark for logical fallacies, etc, then we are all screw2ed -- particularly in a democracy. So it makes sense to have universal service. These public services have little to do with capitalism or socialism. And some things, which everyone needs, and is much more costly if there are multiple producers -- like electric service -- could be, one would think at first glance, prime candidates for being socialized -- particularly given they are highly capita intensive. But the vast majority of electric service is provided by investor owned utilities. They are Highly regulated, but the capital belongs to private investors. And by having much capital available from private financial markets, investor owned utilities can pay for most things upfront and not charge customers upfront -- but rather over the life of the power plant etc. In contrast, municipal utilities -- aka socialized -- while often quite effective, have less access to capital markets and tend to have to charge customers much more upfront fees for capital expenditures. So, the public ownership of capital is not necessarily superior, in terms of quality of service, equity or or pricing models. Should all capital intensive industry be socialized? it would have some benefits, but also some downsides. Intel or Google as socialist enterprises? Not sure we would we much innovation. Or the emergence of new technologies if all capital intensive new technologies had to go through layers of bureaucratic controls. However, these firms are publicly owned -- that is any one can buy shares and in concept influence capital investment policy (far from ideal, and needing improvement, but governance of publicly traded companies is improving.) When I see calls for the end to capitalism, I tend to think they are referring to large companies that exist within, and take huge advantage of corrupt or feeble political systems -- such as we now have in the US, Europe and much of Asia. Calsl for a total end to captialism is not a particularly articulate, informed or well thought out view, IMO. You wouldn't want a privatized fire department who would let your house burn because you didn't pay them their yearly fee? Or a privatized police department to tell you to get lost because you didn't pay up as a burglar with a gun makes his way towards the room you're in. And Arizona already has a health care program. You probably avoid that so you can enjoy paying expensive premiums to a private insurer? Nobody is saying everything has to be socialized. It makes no sense for the family owned corner grocery or gas station to be socialized. The latter is the mistake some countries made in implementing socialism. That government is best which governs least
[FairfieldLife] Re: Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: I am certainly less impressed with this guy after this clip. He is advocating bringing motherhood, fatherhood and domestic life into the market economy -- to monetize it. Aside from being quite anti-humanistic, making the more precious and profound things in life to be part of the crass market economy, he seems oblivious to questions of implementation, incentives, abuse. Glib and fuzzy minded he is, thus far. Well my friend, this is your opinion only though His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi made this possible. Perhaps all we do now is wait and see ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21b8kRKcgV4NR=1
[FairfieldLife] Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? That was the brilliant epistemological Copernican shift from the scripture says so to what is the evidence for that claim? From we have solved life's deepest mysteries to it is still a mystery. And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable. Of course you can't prove a negative so I can't prove that 72 virgins aren't going to meet the martyrs who blow themselves up. And of course you are not using that as as red herring or straw dog. I mean, even if 72 virgins is ridiculous (have you been to LA recently! as Bill Maher might say), that doesn't substantively refute the possibility that just as energy is never created or destroyed -- only transformed, that soul is similar. (What you don't have soul? dude!) But the source of these ideas can be traced to human beings who created them. So for me, so far, I only have evidence for human imagination. If you have a source of knowledge that is different I would be happy to discuss it. I have no definitive source. But one thing that keeps the thought a flicker are my being with blazing souls, who are Alive. And they all seem to accept reincarnation as a matter or course. Yes, so many epistimological holes there you could drive a truck through. But, knowing nothing, having no ability to know anything with certainty, I do piece together bits of evidence that make sense to me(and probably look like the interior of the back yard shed that they guy in Beautiful Mind would retire to -- massive array of strings connecting everything to everything and meaning nothing.) And the silent energy/glow inside doesn't seem like it will just get up and die. But the joy is, if it does, I will never know it. It may be that after death one of the thousands of ideas humans have had about what happens does come true. Perhaps like on the Simpsons Christians will get to the pearly gates and and the guy at the front desk will say Oh sorry, the answer was Buddhist and send them to a fiery eternity. But I just haven't seen any credible evidence that any human has this specific knowledge and I don't believe that the beautiful works of literature in the scriptures has more authority than any other piece of man's writing. Scripture doesn't enter the picture for me. Other than at times providing great poetic images that charm if not thrill the soul. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make western philosophy seem like an ant hill! David Hume's Dialogues on Natural Religion are the Vedanta of Vedanta for me. By exposing the intrinsic contradiction in the very concept of God as being omnipotent omniscient and good when compared with the state of suffering in the world, he freed mankind from thousands of years of superstitious beliefs. We have seen explosive growth in every area of human knowledge that embraced this freedom. There is only one area of human knowledge left that has refused to have an honest discourse on whether the ideas make any sense. It is no surprise that this area, shielded from rational thought and objections to absurd assertions, produces people strapping bombs on their bodies to enter an imaginary afterlife. While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The word socialist: be afraid, be very, very afraid.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: The goal was to lend a hand to the cosmic purpose of ending capitalism on this particular planet. Maharishi, the Master of Masters in this Age, with His onepointed focus, simply did just that. The growth of the movement was an example of his taking advantage of our free market regulation balance. He was able to start up a business and then not pay taxes because of the designation educational. In my view we need to be able to tax religions and spiritual groups like everyone else. The movement's non profit educational organization status seems dubious to me but they pulled it off. But Maharishi for all his posturing was a big fan and beneficiary of capitalism. He was just not a fan of freedom for others. yeah, even David Lynch says now the TM movement has no morals. Did you see the memo sent around this last week with the DL interview from Iceland? Classic drive by Doug. Seems constitutionally incapable of backing up any statement with real attribution. He admits what has been pretty clear. noun 1.a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. In the post-MMY era, is the movement re-setting to become more socialistic? Look at the SBS Trust and Global Country now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Qu7a2lbkw or MUM as community. The old ownership form of the movement was to extract capital from the means of production and the community as a whole and transfer that to the East. The goal was to lend a hand to the cosmic purpose of ending capitalism on this particular planet. Maharishi, the Master of Masters in this Age, with His onepointed focus, simply did just that.
[FairfieldLife] Re: How the World Bank Makes Everything Worse: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: I particularly enjoyed this. Thanks for link. http://bigthink.com/ideas/18173 Tartbrain: What did you enjoy, I am curious. I am not challenging your tastes, but I found little here. I am not a fan of the World Bank,, but his counter to them was a long, rambling, run-on monologue with no substantive points or substantiation. What I found interesting was the insight he provided into the World Bank.World Bank opinions of course range from a global conspiracy to take over the world type group to an organization genuinely committed to helping developing countries. He had access to documents and given an assignment to come up with an analysis of the state of the poor in the world. And his conclusion was that the WB is only superficially committed to helping poorer nations. And I thought he provided a pretty good (and humorous) example to make that point. I know that I am pretty attached to my little piece of the standard of living I have. I am not sure how much of a sacrafice I am willing to make. You know, the Live simply so that others may simply live type thing.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
Thom Hartmann interviewed Patel on his show a couple weeks back and I didn't exactly jump on what he had to say meaning I wasn't impressed. I recall he fell short of seeing the bigger picture which many are guilty of. Speaking of Hartmann a few years back I posted on his forum that an economic collapse might not be such a bad thing as it would tend to correct the disparity of wealth in the US. He saw the post and commented on it during his show and disagreed with me. I was surprised because one of the most liberal movements was the live simply one and he was sort of saying it was alright for people in the US to live better than other folks in the world. Thing is at the people were living better on their credit cards. I guess it was my experience of borrowing money to do the Sidhis program (probably like many here) and then losing my playing gig (actually I gave it up to take a better one that fell through) then not being able to keep paying on my credit cards. This gave me a bad taste for running up debt at an early age and that debt was a prison sort of a trap the establishment wanted you in. My credit card debt wasn't bad and I got my main bank card back when the pay down was over. I just avoid debt wherever I can and use the cards more like cash cards and occasionally amortize something large over several payments at worst. Regarding the stipends which I'm sure does sound naive to some the funding has been thought out by some of the folks proposing it so it is a reasonable idea. Yes of all things the Nixon administration proposed the Guaranteed Minimum Income program. Buckminster Fuller wrote about such a program in one of his books. The reality is we have more people than we have jobs. Are people just supposed to crawl away and die? That's not necessary but as Fuller pointed out the establishment would have to give up control for such a program and they aren't about to do that. Plus they managed to program their useful idiots into believing that work is holy and the purpose of life is work. Ain't that a hoot! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income And keep in mind we could have funded such a program for some time on the money we've wasted on Iraq. Michael Moore is making his rounds to promote sales of his Capitalism: A Love Story which is coming out on DVD and Bluray. He appeared last night on Bill Maher's show and was standing in front of Goldman Sachs for the interview. He really blasted capitalism and was spot on. Here is also a clip that didn't make it into the film which is an interview with Chris Hedges who underscores how capitalism is destroying the world. http://rawstory.com/2010/03/capitalism-love-story-exclusive-clip/ I think we are at an interesting point in history. The old way of doing things won't work anymore. The elite know that and in fact I also believe that's why they've tried to change things in the last 100 years and failed and will again because their solutions don't really benefit the public just themselves. I do think they want to flatten income disparity all over the world. That means the US economy will have to fall which is what they are attempting to do. In a way they are trying to make us all slaves. tartbrain wrote: I am certainly less impressed with this guy after this clip. He is advocating bringing motherhood, fatherhood and domestic life into the market economy -- to monetize it. Aside from being quite anti-humanistic, making the more precious and profound things in life to be part of the crass market economy, he seems oblivious to questions of implementation, incentives, abuse. Glib and fuzzy minded he is, thus far. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt6XB1JXhQwNR=1
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The word socialist: be afraid, be very, very afraid.
tartbrain wrote: Should all capital intensive industry be socialized? it would have some benefits, but also some downsides. Intel or Google as socialist enterprises? Not sure we would we much innovation. Or the emergence of new technologies if all capital intensive new technologies had to go through layers of bureaucratic controls. However, these firms are publicly owned -- that is any one can buy shares and in concept influence capital investment policy (far from ideal, and needing improvement, but governance of publicly traded companies is improving.) Intel was a business built on providing microchips back when there were many such businesses. They won out because IBM picked their processor. Same with Microsoft. Google is a different matter. Starting out analysts couldn't figure out how it was going to make any money but they've figured that out okay. And open source is a concept that scares the shit out of the establishment. They want to somehow make it illegal. But Scott McNealy of Sun during an interview a couple years back suggested that more than just software could be open source. Imagine if we had open source automobiles which folks interested in auto engineering could contribute innovative ideas for and firms could build without worrying about paying royalties for the designs. We would have much better and safer vehicles that way. Every time I boot up Windows and watch the rigmarole it goes through (too many ex-Boeing engineers at MS thinking in mainframe terms) to boot and how insecure it is. Why people continue to use it is beyond me but that is because the only commercial alternative is too expensive and the free ones still have a reputation of being too geeky even though they aren't (I'm using Thunderbird on Ubuntu to type this). The latter suffer from organizations reluctant to license codes to make it more competitive (probably more back alley deals from MS). The examples of the commons I brought up is what most liberal thinkers like to show as examples of how we have some socialism in our society and has been there from day one. In the small town where I grew up the owner of the local grocery had another store about 20 miles away. In that jurisdiction the fire department was privatized and he didn't want to pay the yearly fee. A fire in his store broke out and he had to watch it burn as the fire department came by to hose down nearby establishments who paid for the program. Privatization is a shitty idea of evil minded opportunists.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Is this a 100% TM Group ? Not at all. Because the focus is sort of about Fairfield Iowa, it attracts TMers, but a lot of the participants here are ex-TMers who may or may not have an anti-TM perspective. I figure he'll be riding off into the sunset by the end of the day.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Fairfield - is that special ? ankh --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Is this a 100% TM Group ? Not at all. Because the focus is sort of about Fairfield Iowa, it attracts TMers, but a lot of the participants here are ex-TMers who may or may not have an anti-TM perspective. I figure he'll be riding off into the sunset by the end of the day.
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
So nice that comparison And You - what do you ? ankh ps That's almost like on my YOUTUBE channel of the same name They critizise my OBAMA BLUES but can't play a note on a key HâHâ See my song SHANDORA It will amaze you --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Yes Like Denying Karma Conscience Jesus and Buddha attacked that ferociously I try what I can Anakan, you are such a hero. But you CAN do it, I know you can. In the tradition of the great Buddha, and Jesus, comes Anakan Skywalker. Light saber in one hand, and 1500 page book of the most HOLY POEM in the other. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True The dangers of nonduality?
[FairfieldLife] The continuing fall of Vedic civilization and the demise of the Rajas
First the fall of communism, then the death of the Dark yogi, now the fall of the rajas. Nepal's transition from a Hindu monarchy to a secular republic is not going smoothly, and not just over the fast-approaching May 28 deadline for the nation's new constitution. Nepal's three major parties are at loggerheads in the special assembly formed to draft the constitution over the structure of a proposed federal system. The opposition Maoists insist that federal states be created on an ethnic basis, while the ruling Nepali Congress party and its coalition partner believe the states should be formed on a geographic basis. The Constituent Assembly was formed after a 2008 election when members voted overwhelmingly to abolish the monarchy and restructure the country into autonomous states. The powers of the last king, Gyanendra, had been steadily curtailed since a disastrous period of his rule ended in April 2006 amid a popular revolt. […] Federalism is a recipe for Nepal to disintegrate, like the former Yugoslavia, said Chitra Bahadur KC, the party leader. In his view, Nepal's marginalized peoples would be better served through greater decentralization. A successful general strike his party organized in January is forcing the assembly to listen to his concerns. Another small party, the royalist Rashtriya Prajatantra Party-Nepal (RPP-Nepal), is calling for a national referendum on federalism, as well as on secularism and a restoration of the monarchy. It last week launched a general strike that brought Kathmandu Valley, which encompasses the capital and two other districts, to a standstill. […] The party also wants a referendum to address Nepal's status as the world's only remaining Hindu state, which was abolished in 2008 when Nepal became a republic. More than 80% of the population are from the Hindu faith, also known as Sanaatan Dharma (the eternal law). Hinduism, the third-largest religion after Christianity and Islam, is known for its tolerance towards other faiths. Nepal, with a sizeable Muslim population, does not possess the type of religious rivalries seen in India. This, however, is undergoing a subtle change. There are growing feelings that too much tolerance could impact on Nepal's Hindu way of life, especially if there is a lack of reciprocity from other faiths. The concern has grown since the proselytizing activities of Western groups that had entered Nepal in the garb of non-governmental organizations were exposed. […] Kamal Thapa, who heads RPP-Nepal, denies that his party is working to restore the monarchy's absolute rule. All our party believes in is the restoration of a ceremonial institution that provides a symbol of unity for a country that is known for its ethnic diversity, Thapa told Asia Times Online. Thapa's ideas appeal to many, as the 2006 declaration that made Nepal a secular nation was made without consulting the people. […] Maoist leader Pushpa Kamal Dahal (popularly known as Prachanda) has now become one of two important figures who concede that the secularization of Nepal was a mistake. The other person is none other than the incumbent President Ram Baran Yadav. Yadav made this clear to a controversial Indian holy man, Chandraswami, when he was on a pilgrimage to Nepal. Former prime minister Koirala purportedly evaded the question. Unlike rulers in Delhi, media reports indicate that India's Hindus want the religious identity of neighboring Nepal to remain unchanged. For them, too, this is an emotional issue. If Nepal's secularization was a mistake, this could be rectified when Nepal receives its new constitution. There is no need for a simultaneous restoration of the monarchy, which ceased being the custodian of the nation's Hindus after the notorious palace massacre of 2001. Nepal could now learn to stand as a Hindu republic, not a kingdom. Dhruba Adhikary, Nepal running out of time? (ATol, 04 March 2010)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfr...@... wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Bizarre. It isn't just his memory regarding dates that's faulty. Here's the last paragraph of the statement: As for the allegation that, had it not been for their break up from the Maharishi, the Beatles would have been more prolific in their creative output and remained as a group or longer. I am not an expert musician, but I do note that some of the best music ever composed by them was composed after their return from the Ashram, for example their most famous song, 'Imagine' and 'Hey Jude'.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Joe wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Interesting Geez. This means that Chopra's and George Harrison's gloss about 'what really happened on the Rishikesh TTC' is somewhat moot, no?
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merudanda no_re...@... wrote: [I wrote:] I didn't know--I guess I should have known--that the Sikhs have their own holy book English translation of the Guru Granth Sahib http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w Thanks. This is a different translation from the one AnkHaton posted, not quite so flowery but equally effusive. Thanks as well for the other links and info. I know virtually zero about Sikhism.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Here is the most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_re...@... wrote: snip The Guru Granth is a very interesting text, even if interest is only on a historical or sociological level. Syncretism can be a fascinating trip down the rabbit hole of history and its influences on man's belief systems. Getting your ass kicked for century after century by roving bands of fanatical religious mauradeers results in interesting stew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Granth_Sahib Thanks. Sikhism seems to be one of the few religions we haven't discussed here. I would be surprised if a copy was not on display at a Gurdwara near you. Unfortunately, none of these are near enough for a quick trip... http://www.sikh.net/Gurdwara/USA/G_NJ_NM.htm http://www.gurdwara.us/east-coast.html I have seen very modest Gurdwaras with strikingly embellished Illustrated Guru Granths displayed with great reverence. I have found both American and Indian Sikhs to be very openly interested in assisting people who wish a close inspection as long as they perceive reverence in the guest. The bulk of it is composed of Punjabi written in a script called Gurmukh#299; which is said to have been created for the task of holding the Granth. At least a dozen other languages besides Punjabi appear in the text. And is apparently both sung and recited. Found a kirtan from it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAAKOgDiFWINR=1 Translation is problematic for the same reasons that many followers of Islam insist that the Koran is not able to be accurately rendered in a language other than Arabic. http://www.jsks.co.in/sggs.htm I have seen and studied translations but, oddly, could not spot one online this morning. There must be one. merudanda just posted a link to one: http://tinyurl.com/2rpe4w Not the same one AnkHaton posted the excerpt from, though.
[FairfieldLife] spanish/portugese speakingTM teachers wanted for latinamerica
Dear friends, our dear enlightened Raja Luis needs you for initiating about 2 million schoolkids and students in latin america, if you speak spanish or portugese this is a great opportunity for you. do you remember ? about 30 years ago, maharishiji told us, that there will come a time, there will be so many initiations, that the teachers will flee into the forests... this glorious time now has come for you. so please just fill out this form below and reply the mail to me... jai guru dev michael merlin firstname familyname age gender country city emailadress telephone year you made TTC place languages you speak how many months you can come when you can come questions ? ps: if you dont speak spanish or portugese, than please forward this mail to some meditating friends or TM teacher, to find someone . __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Joe wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Interesting Geez. This means that Chopra's and George Harrison's gloss about 'what really happened on the Rishikesh TTC' is somewhat moot, no? Uh, no, Vaj. It's the other way around. That would mean that George Harrison's rendition of what really happened would make Magic Alex's rendition somewhat moot. And this isn't a defense of Maharishi; I don't give a flying f*** whether he bonked Mia Farrow and all those babes that Rick has been unstressing on for the last decade and a half 'cause my TM will or will not work regardless. But Alex's credibility is diminished by two things in my eyes: (1) his screwing up on the length of time he and the Beatles were in Rishikesh; and (2) his claim about the output of music.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: snip many interesting thoughts It's refreshing to hear about possible alternatives, and obviously being able to envision them in the first place is a prerequisite to implementing these kinds of changes, but are they even remotely feasible in light of what exists now? Does it make sense to get all involved in contemplating how something so revolutionary would work if it takes time and energy away from doing what's currently possible around the edges? I think it is, but I may be deluded. And some of both is possible. Doing small things within the context and vision of the big thing would be best. In a nice bit of synchronicity, I'm currently copy-editing a collection of essays by women who lead various fairly radical reformist projects and organizations geared at empowering women. Some of the rhetoric is over the top and/or way out in left field, so to speak, but a lot of what they're actually doing appears to be just as you describe, little bitty nibbles in the context of the big visions. At times what they're up against seems so dauntingly huge it makes me want to go take a nap to think of how many of those little nibbles are going to be required to make more than a marginal difference. And if reincarnation is real, it opens up a larger playing field. Think and begin to implement the Big Plan, and if not successful this life, it will be ones deepest desire at death and become the core of one's future lifes' journies. Or, heck, the journeys of the next generations.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Bizarre. It isn't just his memory regarding dates that's faulty. Here's the last paragraph of the statement: As for the allegation that, had it not been for their break up from the Maharishi, the Beatles would have been more prolific in their creative output and remained as a group or longer. I am not an expert musician, but I do note that some of the best music ever composed by them was composed after their return from the Ashram, for example their most famous song, 'Imagine' and 'Hey Jude'. I found that last paragraph bizarre also but for the following reason: I remember seeing a Derek (Derek Taylor?) who was later or is still now a higher-up in Apple being interviewed and his comment was something to the effect that during the Beatles' stay in Rishikesh that they had a prolific output of composition and music. I had heard that claim made somewhere else as well. And, yes, the lengths of time Alex claims he and the Beatles were there sound way offtoo long.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: I am certainly less impressed with this guy after this clip. He is advocating bringing motherhood, fatherhood and domestic life into the market economy -- to monetize it. Aside from being quite anti-humanistic, making the more precious and profound things in life to be part of the crass market economy, he seems oblivious to questions of implementation, incentives, abuse. Glib and fuzzy minded he is, thus far. Probably not a great idea to pass judgment on the basis of clips from TV interviews. He's talking about really complicated stuff, and you just can't expect that kind of detailed analysis in such a context. Could well be he's just as glib and fuzzy-minded in his books and papers, of course. But one perhaps ought to take a look. Here's a list of his papers: http://rajpatel.org/academic/ Here's one from that list on food sovereignty, the same topic as in the clip (I haven't read it): http://rajpatel.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Feminist.pdf Here's one on the World Bank: http://rajpatel.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/actionaid.pdf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ShempMcGurk shempmcg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Bizarre. It isn't just his memory regarding dates that's faulty. Here's the last paragraph of the statement: As for the allegation that, had it not been for their break up from the Maharishi, the Beatles would have been more prolific in their creative output and remained as a group or longer. I am not an expert musician, but I do note that some of the best music ever composed by them was composed after their return from the Ashram, for example their most famous song, 'Imagine' and 'Hey Jude'. I found that last paragraph bizarre also but for the following reason: I remember seeing a Derek (Derek Taylor?) who was later or is still now a higher-up in Apple being interviewed and his comment was something to the effect that during the Beatles' stay in Rishikesh that they had a prolific output of composition and music. I had heard that claim made somewhere else as well. Shemp. Imagine isn't a Beatles' song. Lennon wrote it after they broke up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
On Mar 6, 2010, at 4:50 PM, ShempMcGurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Joe wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Interesting Geez. This means that Chopra's and George Harrison's gloss about 'what really happened on the Rishikesh TTC' is somewhat moot, no? Uh, no, Vaj. It's the other way around. That would mean that George Harrison's rendition of what really happened would make Magic Alex's rendition somewhat moot. How's that? Please explain. They weren't doing LSD as claimed. And he witnessed a pass on some female student. MMY didn't deny it, but only said he was human. At least he was honest. And this isn't a defense of Maharishi; I don't give a flying f*** whether he bonked Mia Farrow and all those babes that Rick has been unstressing on for the last decade and a half 'cause my TM will or will not work regardless. But Alex's credibility is diminished by two things in my eyes: (1) his screwing up on the length of time he and the Beatles were in Rishikesh; and (2) his claim about the output of music. I wasn't there, so I don't know how long he was there, so it's not for me to say. It did sound too long. I just assumed it was a hastily written statement, a sort of catch up to the various defamations which had taken place while he was out of touch in Greece (or wherever). But I do know the Beatles did compose a lot of great music after they left his influence, esp. solo works like Imagine. However the counterclaim could easily be made that their experience of TM, and perhaps Saraswati, continued to inspire their music for the rest of their lives!
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: Fairfield - is that special ? Fairfield is the home of Maharishi University of Management, and just outside Fairfield is Maharishi Vedic City. This is basically the center of all things TM in the Unites States.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
On Mar 6, 2010, at 4:46 PM, ShempMcGurk wrote: I found that last paragraph bizarre also but for the following reason: I remember seeing a Derek (Derek Taylor?) who was later or is still now a higher-up in Apple being interviewed and his comment was something to the effect that during the Beatles' stay in Rishikesh that they had a prolific output of composition and music. I had heard that claim made somewhere else as well. And, yes, the lengths of time Alex claims he and the Beatles were there sound way offtoo long. They wrote a huge number of songs either in Rishikesh or thereafter. We have the demos for many of these songs now, so we know when they were first put to tape. Suffice to say, the White Album owes many songs to the Rishikesh TTC. I think you're right on the time being too long. I have an diary of that time, I will look it up.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 6, 2010, at 4:50 PM, ShempMcGurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Mar 6, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Joe wrote: I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf Interesting Geez. This means that Chopra's and George Harrison's gloss about 'what really happened on the Rishikesh TTC' is somewhat moot, no? Uh, no, Vaj. It's the other way around. That would mean that George Harrison's rendition of what really happened would make Magic Alex's rendition somewhat moot. How's that? Please explain. If my choice is between Magic Alex's version of what George Harrison saw and said versus George Harrison's version of what George Harrison saw, I'd say George Harrison's version of is more credible. That's why I said it's the other way around. Plus the lessening of credibility for Alex because of his getting the time line wrong. They weren't doing LSD as claimed. And he witnessed a pass on some female student. MMY didn't deny it, but only said he was human. At least he was honest. And this isn't a defense of Maharishi; I don't give a flying f*** whether he bonked Mia Farrow and all those babes that Rick has been unstressing on for the last decade and a half 'cause my TM will or will not work regardless. But Alex's credibility is diminished by two things in my eyes: (1) his screwing up on the length of time he and the Beatles were in Rishikesh; and (2) his claim about the output of music. I wasn't there, so I don't know how long he was there, so it's not for me to say. It did sound too long. I just assumed it was a hastily written statement, a sort of catch up to the various defamations which had taken place while he was out of touch in Greece (or wherever). But I do know the Beatles did compose a lot of great music after they left his influence, esp. solo works like Imagine. However the counterclaim could easily be made that their experience of TM, and perhaps Saraswati, continued to inspire their music for the rest of their lives!
[FairfieldLife] Re: --- The most HOLY POEM ever written for Mankind !
Give me a link, give me a link, give me a link of that Kit Kat Bar. Just kidding. Give me a link to that youtube --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankha...@... wrote: So nice that comparison And You - what do you ? ankh ps That's almost like on my YOUTUBE channel of the same name They critizise my OBAMA BLUES but can't play a note on a key HâHâ See my song SHANDORA It will amaze you --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: Yes Like Denying Karma Conscience Jesus and Buddha attacked that ferociously I try what I can Anakan, you are such a hero. But you CAN do it, I know you can. In the tradition of the great Buddha, and Jesus, comes Anakan Skywalker. Light saber in one hand, and 1500 page book of the most HOLY POEM in the other. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, AnkhAton ankhaton@ wrote: I m at the end of my life somewhat warning around on Groups and Blogs against the dangers of Non Duality which is in itself very true but like Gravity is True The dangers of nonduality?
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Nothing: Raj Patel
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: snip many interesting thoughts It's refreshing to hear about possible alternatives, and obviously being able to envision them in the first place is a prerequisite to implementing these kinds of changes, but are they even remotely feasible in light of what exists now? Does it make sense to get all involved in contemplating how something so revolutionary would work if it takes time and energy away from doing what's currently possible around the edges? I think it is, but I may be deluded. And some of both is possible. Doing small things within the context and vision of the big thing would be best. In a nice bit of synchronicity, I'm currently copy-editing a collection of essays by women who lead various fairly radical reformist projects and organizations geared at empowering women. Some of the rhetoric is over the top and/or way out in left field, so to speak, but a lot of what they're actually doing appears to be just as you describe, little bitty nibbles in the context of the big visions. At times what they're up against seems so dauntingly huge it makes me want to go take a nap to think of how many of those little nibbles are going to be required to make more than a marginal difference. It's a bit of a classic dilemma. Taking big leaps for immediate progress or take smaller steps doing the right big thing -- after taking some time to get clear on what that right big thing is. Better to do one or the other of these than put ones head in the sand and get hoodwinked by flashy transient things. And I am not sure reaching the goal, or when, is critical. Its that we make effort and try to keep moving forward. Which may include rethinking, refining, recreating one's vision of the big thing. And if reincarnation is real, it opens up a larger playing field. Think and begin to implement the Big Plan, and if not successful this life, it will be ones deepest desire at death and become the core of one's future lifes' journies. Or, heck, the journeys of the next generations. Yes, thats actually a better way to put it. Plant a seed for the next generation to grow. And the next (or next next) generation may be us. Or not.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Raj Patel: Capitalism Built on Devaluing Women
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: I am certainly less impressed with this guy after this clip. He is advocating bringing motherhood, fatherhood and domestic life into the market economy -- to monetize it. Aside from being quite anti-humanistic, making the more precious and profound things in life to be part of the crass market economy, he seems oblivious to questions of implementation, incentives, abuse. Glib and fuzzy minded he is, thus far. Probably not a great idea to pass judgment on the basis of clips from TV interviews. He's talking about really complicated stuff, and you just can't expect that kind of detailed analysis in such a context. I agree. And shows like Colbert are not the place for deep, sustained analysis -- and Patel did get one point across -- the $200 hamburger -- which is possibly the most you can do when caught in the Colbert jagurnaught roller coaster. (I think Colbert is great, and he brings out great points in satire -- but its not Charlie Rose.) Could well be he's just as glib and fuzzy-minded in his books and papers, of course. But one perhaps ought to take a look. I will. Thanks. Here's a list of his papers: http://rajpatel.org/academic/ Here's one from that list on food sovereignty, the same topic as in the clip (I haven't read it): http://rajpatel.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Feminist.pdf Here's one on the World Bank: http://rajpatel.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/actionaid.pdf
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
On Mar 6, 2010, at 5:30 PM, ShempMcGurk wrote: If my choice is between Magic Alex's version of what George Harrison saw and said versus George Harrison's version of what George Harrison saw, I'd say George Harrison's version of is more credible. That's why I said it's the other way around. Plus the lessening of credibility for Alex because of his getting the time line wrong. I don't know that we ever heard it from George, but George via Deepak. According to George's autobiography I Me Mine, he went to Rishikesh on February 68 and returned in April 68. Can't find the old paperback on The Beatles Day by Day. Must be in storage. Anyways the guides course was 3 months according to the Beatles Books of Lists. Beatles rishikesh
[FairfieldLife] Re: Magic Alex speaks about MMY/Rishikesh
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfr...@... wrote: That was really entertaining Joe, thanks for posting it. I especially enjoyed the list of inventions he had never worked on but had been accused of attempting. They were hilarious. I gather that this statement from Alex Mardas is in reaction to an earlier NY Times article about the Beatles and MMY. I note that his memory regarding dates of the Rishikesh course is a little fuzzy, but this is the first statement I've seen from him since the late 60s. The section of the statement dealing with MMY starts on page 7. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/arts/Mardas.pdf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stampede in an Indian Temple
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: While David Hume was magnificent, given that 90% of the known (known at present) universe is dark matter, and 99% of the known universe is dark energy (or figures equally astonishing), is there any slim possibility that Hume's abstract theoretical paper arguments may not have been comprehensive enough to reflect the totality and reality of the complete universe, past present and future? That was the brilliant epistemological Copernican shift from the scripture says so to what is the evidence for that claim? From we have solved life's deepest mysteries to it is still a mystery. And imaginary after life. Do you have the definitive proof its imaginary? For me, it seems plausible, while not (easily) provable. Of course you can't prove a negative so I can't prove that 72 virgins aren't going to meet the martyrs who blow themselves up. And of course you are not using that as as red herring or straw dog. I mean, even if 72 virgins is ridiculous (have you been to LA recently! as Bill Maher might say), that doesn't substantively refute the possibility that just as energy is never created or destroyed -- only transformed, that soul is similar. (What you don't have soul? dude!) Some excellent embedded jokes! For me it isn't a red herring to use the entertaining Muslim untested assertion as an example because it is no less valid than a proof by analogy. Equating the concept of soul with measurable energy and then ascribing it the same properties is on the same level of proof as just stating anything else about what survives death. But the source of these ideas can be traced to human beings who created them. So for me, so far, I only have evidence for human imagination. If you have a source of knowledge that is different I would be happy to discuss it. I have no definitive source. But one thing that keeps the thought a flicker are my being with blazing souls, who are Alive. And they all seem to accept reincarnation as a matter or course. I can't roll with proof by authority since I have no reason to believe that these people are not just passing on the stories of their religious traditions. Yes, so many epistimological holes there you could drive a truck through. But, knowing nothing, having no ability to know anything with certainty, I do piece together bits of evidence that make sense to me(and probably look like the interior of the back yard shed that they guy in Beautiful Mind would retire to -- massive array of strings connecting everything to everything and meaning nothing.) I think we all do that. And I think we can have some more confidence about some aspect of our knowledge than others. The humility about knowledge you express here seems appropriate to me. When it comes to the big questions we know very little which is not exactly represented in the assertive claims of certainty found in most religious traditions. And the silent energy/glow inside doesn't seem like it will just get up and die. But the joy is, if it does, I will never know it. Nicely said. If I could vote I sure would want more lives. That actually sounds much more appealing than the enlightened soul escaping the wheel of birth and death. I'm sorry they think like is shitty but personally I lucked out on a decent part of the planet to be born on so I'm having a blast. But my energy glow didn't even make it past the first few seconds of propofol during my last hospital visit so I'm not holding much hope for the rotting brain as much use keeping the lights on. It may be that after death one of the thousands of ideas humans have had about what happens does come true. Perhaps like on the Simpsons Christians will get to the pearly gates and and the guy at the front desk will say Oh sorry, the answer was Buddhist and send them to a fiery eternity. But I just haven't seen any credible evidence that any human has this specific knowledge and I don't believe that the beautiful works of literature in the scriptures has more authority than any other piece of man's writing. Scripture doesn't enter the picture for me. Other than at times providing great poetic images that charm if not thrill the soul. Excellent rap from you as usual Tartbrain. I am really enjoying your posts here. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: meetoo: Of more interesting to me when I first came to know of the differences in the systems... The depth of the Indian philosophical systems make
