Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread TurquoiseBee
Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by someone 
who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after 
death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has anything to do 
with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in a God, 
but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking
 state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after 
physical death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either 
the existence of a God or the existence of any kind of morality or 
fairness as you imply with your notions about karma. 

I think 
that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they 
won't be so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's 
why they invent the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily 
have anything to do with the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great 
Mystery that we call death, I pass along an interesting song that will 
probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't a fan of the 
Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used to 
close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly
 chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to 
see her go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, 
as much in fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out 
soon enough ourselves. 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:


Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the 
atheist position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless

Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.

My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and 
that karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next. 
 To use a oft cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just 
merges back into nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people 
get away with murder?  Or no kudos for a generous life?  No second 
chance for a life cut down after one or two years?

Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.

[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
Personally, I think it would be cool if there was an afterlife of some 
description but it's the last thing I'm expecting. For there to be anything it 
would either have to have evolved (most likely impossible) or there is 
something fundamental we don't know about the universe which is possible but 
unlikely in a case like this because the potential for us to escape to another 
realm would have to have been waiting for us to evolve into it and it didn't 
happen like that, there was no goal for life to aim for. Unless that's the 
evidence for god that everyone seems to be looking for, but it's a bit of a hit 
and miss kind of god and he might have had a very long wait indeed as we 
needn't have survived this far. 

 This is what makes Hameroff's theory about quantum consciousness being a 
detachable soul such an attractive proposition, but it isn't one that I thought 
more than twice about. As far as I know (and it isn't much) quantum stuff 
couldn't survive either in the brain (too hot) or outside (too much 
interference) it would need some sort of motive force to hold it together and 
it's hard to see what that might be as quanta are supposed to be the ultimately 
small thing, there isn't anything else as far as we know. It sounds like 
desperate new age thinking to me.
 

 Other physicists dismiss it utterly, except people with books or prayers to 
sell like John Hagelin who talk vast amounts of shit of their own. Someone 
should draw a chart of unlikely claims made by quantum physicists so we can see 
just how relatively impossible each thing is.
 
 Research into NDEs could give us a clue, people report being outside of their 
bodies in operating rooms and claim to have heard conversations between doctors 
that they shouldn't have been able to hear due to being unconscious. To see if 
it's a real phenomena instead of a shift in consciousness in some way hospitals 
in England have things placed on high shelves out of the sight of people in the 
room. So if someone actually leaves their body they should be able to tell us 
what they saw which would qualify as objective proof of out of the body 
experiences. And, if it was repeated consistently it would cause a scientific 
revolution. So far nothing, but NDE's are rare and  you just might have other 
things on your mind than searching shelves for weird stuff. 
 

 And then, I remember reading a book about it and of the people who meet 
relatives on the other side, a third meet relatives who are still alive! That 
leaves it dead in the water as a theory about life after death but it's still 
interesting and one of the few paranormal things we can check.
 

 Or maybe when we die we have an NDE because of lack of oxygen or changes in 
the brain that makes us think we are heading towards an afterlife. That'd be a 
nice touch.
 

 Richard Dawkins is exasperated that people don't leave religions in flocks to 
join his intellectually superior atheist position. But certain annihilation of 
the soul at death is rather cold comfort and a bit of a tough call to rally 
round! So I live in hope, but not expectation.
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Not as long as you'd think, it's an old one. It originated here:  God, by 
definition, is that for which no greater can be conceived. God exists in the 
understanding. If God exists in the understanding, we could imagine Him to be 
greater by existing in reality. Therefore, God must exist.  

 I don't get the final therefore...  I can conceive of fabulous things but 
nature is under no obligation to create them to satisfy a dubious logical 
progression. 
 

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote:

 Logician Kurt Gödel's ontological proof for the existence of God.  (This 
should keep salyavin808 busy for a while.)
 Definition 1: x is God-like if and only if x has as essential properties those 
and only those properties which are positive Definition 2: A is an essence of x 
if and only if for every property B, x has B necessarily if and only if A 
entails 

[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
Karma, in the sense of some sort of payback scheme from the universe, I don't 
believe in. I believe positively in the principle of shit happens. The idea 
that something bad or good that happens to me is because of something I did in 
the past just doesn't work. 
 

 I remember the TMO trying to convince me about karma, probably as away of 
getting donations or selling yagyas, they had a cartoon of a stone dropping 
into a pond and the waves bouncing back from the sides to interfere with them. 
Karma is just like that they claimed. But what do the karma waves of my life 
bounce off of? How do they find me and not someone else? Why don't they 
dissipate when interfering with another persons karma? You can spot a poor 
theory when it raises more questions than it answers.
 

 Ditto for reincarnation and life after death. It's not to say it's impossible 
but that it's so far out of the way we normally think and experience things 
that these very human ideas have an awful lot of explaining to do if we are to 
look at them as discoveries rather than mere hopefulness. 
 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Personally, I think it would be cool if there was an afterlife of some 
description but it's the last thing I'm expecting. For there to be anything it 
would either have to have evolved (most likely impossible) or there is 
something fundamental we don't know about the universe which is possible but 
unlikely in a case like this because the potential for us to escape to another 
realm would have to have been waiting for us to evolve into it and it didn't 
happen like that, there was no goal for life to aim for. Unless that's the 
evidence for god that everyone seems to be looking for, but it's a bit of a hit 
and miss kind of god and he might have had a very long wait indeed as we 
needn't have survived this far. 

 This is what makes Hameroff's theory about quantum consciousness being a 
detachable soul such an attractive proposition, but it isn't one that I thought 
more than twice about. As far as I know (and it isn't much) quantum stuff 
couldn't survive either in the brain (too hot) or outside (too much 
interference) it would need some sort of motive force to hold it together and 
it's hard to see what that might be as quanta are supposed to be the ultimately 
small thing, there isn't anything else as far as we know. It sounds like 
desperate new age thinking to me.
 

 Other physicists dismiss it utterly, except people with books or prayers to 
sell like John Hagelin who talk vast amounts of shit of their own. Someone 
should draw a chart of unlikely claims made by quantum physicists so we can see 
just how relatively impossible each thing is.
 
 Research into NDEs could give us a clue, people report being outside of their 
bodies in operating rooms and claim to have heard conversations between doctors 
that they shouldn't have been able to hear due to being unconscious. To see if 
it's a real phenomena instead of a shift in consciousness in some way hospitals 
in England have things placed on high shelves out of the sight of people in the 
room. So if someone actually leaves their body they should be able to tell us 
what they saw which would qualify as objective proof of out of the body 
experiences. And, if it was repeated consistently it would cause a scientific 
revolution. So far nothing, but NDE's are rare and  you just might have other 
things on your mind than searching shelves for weird stuff. 
 

 And then, I remember reading a book about it and of the people who meet 
relatives on the other side, a third meet relatives who are still alive! That 
leaves it dead in the water as a theory about life after death but it's still 
interesting and one of the few paranormal things we can check.
 

 Or maybe when we die we have an NDE because of lack of oxygen or changes in 
the brain that makes us think we are heading towards an afterlife. That'd be a 
nice touch.
 

 Richard Dawkins is exasperated that people don't leave religions in flocks to 
join his intellectually superior atheist position. But certain annihilation of 
the soul at death is rather cold comfort and a bit of a tough call to rally 
round! So I live in hope, but not expectation.
 

 

 

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos 

Re: [FairfieldLife] The coming joy of Aquarius

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Ha ha ha ha ha! The TMO and Benj Creme have always dealt in futures, in what's 
GONE happen, not in what's happening now. Of course they make it sound like its 
just ABOUT to happen, just round the bend so the faithful will continue to fill 
the coffers. 


On Tue, 2/18/14, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The coming joy of Aquarius
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 1:05 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
   
   
 Better go tell
 the Maharishi jyotish
   folks then.  Maybe they need a checking.  :-D 
 
   
 
   On 02/17/2014 02:44 PM, nablusoss1008 wrote:
 
 
   
   
   
 I believe you are mistaken, the
 transformation towards a
   better world is happening now, as we speak. As
 confirmed
   by Maharishi, Theosophy and myself (:-))
   
   
   
   
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


[FairfieldLife] RE: Photoshopped?

2014-02-18 Thread cardemaister
If it ain't shopped, my hypothesis is that guy whas thrown towards the lake 
back first...



[FairfieldLife] Moonwalking Armadillo

2014-02-18 Thread turquoiseb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsmxsX7fo9I 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsmxsX7fo9I



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Oopsie-Barry. Nothing wrong with Stevie-boy's questions, but life after 
death wasn't part of the discussion, as Barry would have known had he read the 
posts.
 

 Barry's panties are really in a wad this morning. Yesterday he got slapped 
down because he mistakenly assumed I was trying to sell my beliefs (not 
having read my posts). So this morning he's trying to attack me for not trying 
to sell my beliefs. Too funny.
 

 In any case, anyone who has been reading my posts on a regular basis knows I'm 
not a believer. That really confuses Barry, because he has neither the 
intellect nor the principles to understand why someone would object to ignorant 
bigotry if one doesn't have a dog in the fight. Nor does he have the smarts to 
even grasp what the argument he's so contemptuous of has been about.
 

 Carry on, Barry. I'm sure you can manage to fuck up another few times today.
 

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 
 




 





[FairfieldLife] RE: The Skeptic and the Scientist

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
I know that dialogue must embarrass you, Salyavin. Much too accurate a satire 
for comfort. Not fun to realize that the New Atheist looks as insanely stupid 
to the philosopher of religion as the science skeptic looks to the scientist. 

  You wish.
 

 This hypothetical dialogue between a scientist and a skeptic is by the same 
philosopher who wrote the essay I just posted. As a satire of dialogues between 
atheist skeptics and philosophers of religion, it's a little exaggerated, but 
not much. There are several very close resemblances between this dialogue and 
the exchange I just had with Salyavin.  
 Skeptic: Science is BS.  Physicists believe in these things called “quarks,” 
which are little flavored particles that spin around and work like magic 
charms.  Their evidence is that they read about them in a James Joyce novel.  
Some of them think the universe is made up of tiny shoelaces tied together, 
though they admit that they have no evidence for this and have to take it on 
faith.  Einstein said morality is all relative – which is why he stole his 
ideas from this guy who worked in a patent office, and why Richard Feynman 
stole atomic secrets during WWII.  Meanwhile, the chemists contradict the 
physicists and believe instead in little colored balls held together by sticks. 
 Biologists believe monkeys can give birth to human beings.  What a bunch of 
crap!  It’s child abuse to teach kids about this stuff in schools.
 

 Scientist: Are you joking?  If not, I suggest that you actually read some 
science before criticizing it.
 

 Skeptic: I’ve already read a lot about it, in blog comboxes [i.e., comments 
sections--JS] like this one.  And why should I waste my time reading anything 
else?  I already know it’s all BS!  Didn’t you hear the examples I just gave? 
 

 Scientist: No, you’re missing my point.  You’ve completely distorted what 
scientists actually say.  It’s not remotely as silly as you think it is.  In 
fact it’s not silly at all.  But you need to actually read the stuff to see 
that.
 

 Skeptic: So you deny that physicists believe in quarks?  What flavor are your 
quarks, chocolate or vanilla?  Do you deny that they think we came from 
monkeys?  Which monkey was your mother?
 

 Scientist: No one says that monkeys gave birth to humans.  That’s a ridiculous 
caricature.  And of course I don’t deny that physicists believe in quarks, but 
you’re badly misunderstanding what they mean when they attribute “flavor” to 
them.  They don’t mean that literally…
 

 Skeptic: Oh so it’s just empty verbiage, then.  See, you’re just proving my 
point for me.
 

 Scientist: No, it’s not empty verbiage.  It’s technical terminology.
 

 Skeptic: I see, like magic spells.  That’s why they talk about “charm.”  
Really, you’re just digging the hole deeper.
 

 Scientist: Actually, it’s you who is digging your own hole deeper.  That’s not 
what they mean by “charm.”  If you knew anything at all about physics, you’d 
realize that.
 

 Skeptic: See, every time I debate people like you, you always whine about how 
everyone misunderstands what you mean.  You always say “Go read this shelf of 
books and come back when you know what you’re talking about.”  It’s like one of 
the naked emperor’s sycophants telling the kid who sees that he’s naked that he 
needs to read the learned works of Count Roderigo concerning the fine leather 
of the emperor’s boots, etc.
 

 Scientist: What a ridiculous analogy.  You’re just begging the question.  
Whether science is really comparable to the naked emperor is precisely what’s 
at issue.
 

 Skeptic: OK, I’ll bite.  Explain it to me, then.  Prove to me here and now in 
this combox that science is worth my time, as opposed to being the tissue of 
superstition, lies, and bigotry that I already know it to be.  And don’t get 
long-winded like you people tend to do, or start throwing around references to 
this scientist I should know about or that book I should have read.
 

 Scientist: What is this, an invitation to the Star Chamber?  How am I supposed 
to explain fields as complex as quantum physics, or evolutionary biology, or 
chemistry to the satisfaction of someone as hostile to them as you are in a 
combox comment, or even a blog post or series of blog posts?  Besides, there 
are so many things wrong with what you’ve said I don’t even know where to 
begin!  And if I keep it short, you’ll tell me that I’m dodging whatever issue 
I don’t address, while if I respond at greater length you’ll tell me I’m a 
windbag.  I can’t win!  But why are you wasting time in a combox anyway?  Why 
don’t you just read the work of some actual scientists?  It’s right there in 
the library or bookstore if you really want to understand it.
 

 Skeptic: I knew it.  You won’t defend yourself because you know you can’t.  
But then, arguing with people like you just gives you credibility.  That’s why 
you uneducated, irrational fanatical bigots need to be shouted down by 
reasonable, open-minded, 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may 
continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there 
is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity.  
 And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at 
birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people 
recalling things that they have no business recalling.  And when you bring up 
these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card 
such as, There's so much we don't know about genetics, or There's so much we 
don't know about the brain.  Sounds very much like, God works in mysteries 
ways.

 

 For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher 
power at work here.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't 
a fan of the Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used 
to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly 
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her 
go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in 
fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough 
ourselves. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 




 










[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock

 There is a difference between what the ill-informed layman 
apprehends about Science, and what scientists apprehend 
about science.

There is a difference between what the ill-informed layman 
apprehends about God, and what the serious Theist 
philosophers apprehend about God.

Creationist Theists  - how many of them are there?

Deistic Theists- how many of them are there?

Naturalist Theists   - how many of them are there?

Similarly, 

Mysterianist Atheists - how many of them are there?

Naturalist Atheists - how many of them are there?

 --- authfriend authfriend@... wrote:
 
  I found this just now; it's from a blog post by a professional philosopher 
  who is a classical theist, explaining why Roberts's one god further 
  objection is an ignorant crock. (I was pleased to note that I covered most 
  of his points briefly in my responses to you, but he goes into a bit greater 
  detail. You won't read it because it's longish, but it's now on the record 
  here.)  

  CAVEAT: This is NOT an argument in favor of classical theism. The author 
  isn't a proselytizer but rather an educator. telling readers Classical 
  theism says..., not What classical theism says is true.
  

  ...The “Common Sense Atheist” or “one god further” objection supposes that 
  the God of classical theism is merely one further superhuman being alongside 
  others who have found worshippers – Thor, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, and so forth – 
  only a superhuman being of even greater power, knowledge, and goodness than 
  these other deities have.  But of course, that is not what God is at all.  
  He is not “a being” alongside other beings, not even an especially 
  impressive one, but rather Being Itself or Pure Actuality, that from which 
  all mere “beings” (including Thor, Zeus, and Quetzalcoatl, if they existed) 
  derive the limited actuality or existence they possess.  Neither does He 
  “have” power, knowledge, goodness, and the like; rather, He is power, 
  knowledge, and goodness [Excuse the gender pronouns. Gender does not 
  apply to the God of classical theism, nor does the writer intend to imply it 
  does, as should be obvious from his definition at the top. IMHO, it's a lazy 
  convention and he shouldn't use it.--JS]
  

  ...The “Common Sense Atheist” or “one god further” objection would be a 
  silly objection even if one had other grounds for rejecting classical 
  theismThe [objection represents] a failure to understand even the 
  fundamentals of the position one is attacking.
 

  It is no good replying that lots of ordinary religious people conceive of 
  God in all sorts of crude ways at odds with the sophisticated philosophical 
  theology developed by classical theists – ways that make of God something 
  like a glorified Thor or Zeus.  The “man on the street” also believes all 
  sorts of silly things about science – that Darwinism claims that monkeys 
  gave birth to human beings, say, or that molecules are made up of little 
  balls and sticks.  But it would be preposterous for someone to pretend he 
  had landed a blow against Darwinism or modern chemistry by attacking these 
  silly straw men.  Similarly, what matters in evaluating classical theism is 
  not what your Grandpa or your Pastor Bob have to say about it, but rather 
  what serious thinkers like Aristotle, Plotinus, Athanasius, Augustine, 
  Anselm, Aquinas, Avicenna, Averroes, Maimonides, and countless others have 
  to say.
  

  Nor would it be any good to insist that the “one god further” objection is 
  significant at least as a reply to the more anthropomorphic “theistic 
  personalist” conception of God that has replaced the classical theist 
  conception in the thinking of many modern theologians and philosophers of 
  religion.
  

  For one thing, most theistic personalists, though they depart in significant 
  (and in my view disastrous) ways from classical theism, are still committed 
  to a far more sophisticated conception of God than purveyors of the “one god 
  further” objection take as their preferred target.  (Comparing God to the 
  Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a serious reply to a theistic personalist 
  like Plantinga or Swinburne.)  More importantly, purveyors of this objection 
  take themselves to be presenting a serious criticism of Christianity, 
  Judaism, Islam, and philosophical theism as such – not merely of this or 
  that modern representative of these views – and the historically mainstream 
  tradition in these religions and in philosophical theology is classical 
  theist, not theistic personalist.  Hence to fail to address the classical 
  theist conception of God is ipso facto to fail seriously to address the 
  claims of these traditions.  
  

  In particular, unless one has made a serious study of philosophical theology 
  as it has been developed within the Neo-Platonic, Aristotelian, Thomistic 
  and other Scholastic traditions, one’s understanding of traditional 
  

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Poor Xeno. If he's read my post to Salyavin of yesterday afternoon quoting 
philospher and classical theist Edward Feser, he now knows he wasted a lot of 
his own time and ended up only making a fool of himself. He's just way, WAY out 
of his depth, in terms both of information and understanding. 

 If he wants further confirmation and humiliation, he can read Feser's detailed 
post on classical theism or any others of the posts on the page of links about 
classical theism from Feser's blog I also linked to. 

 (BTW, note that he doesn't cite any of the Web pages he claims to have 
consulted.)
 

 As I gathered my information from web pages entitled 'Classical Theism' the 
version or variation you imply here needs to be stated explicitly to show how 
what I wrote is not classical theism. You need to produce what you think 
classical theism is, if you want to correct what I said, otherwise you are 
saying nothing whatever to contradict what I said. So I say, your 
interpretation of classical theism is wrong. Provide the counter arguments. 
(you can reply to Salyavin if you like, to avoid certain repercussions). This 
might have to do with the use of English articles 'a', 'an', 'the'. In the 
Greek Christian Bible, for example god is usually written TON THEOS (THE GOD - 
first century Greek only had capital letters). If there is such a thing as 
absolute being, how many of it is or are there? If it is a unity, then one 
could say it's either absolute being, or the absolute being, since it is 
unique; if it were not unique, then it certainly would not be associated with 
the word god as you seem to imply but do not as yet say. I would venture to say 
that because nobody seems to ever exactly agree on just what god is, that 
'classical theism' is really just a general category for similar but not 
identical views and that the term classical theism really does not apply to a 
specifically definable idea. But you seem to have something specific in mind. 
Produce it or you lose the argument. 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 An/the absolutely metaphysically ultimate being is not how classical theism 
characterizes God. 

 If classical theism refers to god characterized as an/the absolutely 
metaphysically ultimate being having, 

 simplicity
 is all knowing
 is all powerful
 is all good
 is ultimate reality
 is transcendent
 is incorporeal
 is timeless
 is infinite
 is all intelligent
 

 This all sounds very grand, but it does not explain how simplicity can create 
complexity, does not explain why something that is separate from non-ultimate 
reality (the non-transcendent world) can interact with the non-transcendent 
world, and does not explain how that which is all knowing cannot explain why it 
cannot explain this. It does not explain how an all powerful being can produce 
a world with such weakness and defects and shoddy workmanship. It does not 
explain how evil can arise from something that is all good, or how deception 
and illusion can arise out of all goodness and what is ultimately real. It does 
not explain how incorporeality can make itself even known in the world, because 
in the world, all that can be imagined, invisible dragons, invisible 
cockroaches, other invisible gods etc., all appear the same (as in the cartoon 
Barry posted). It does not explain how the time bound human mind can conceive 
of timelessness, or infinity, or with our limited intelligence (having been 
somehow generated by something all intelligent) can even imagine something more 
intelligent than we are.
 

 simplicity / complexitynowing / ignorance
 powerful / weak
 good / evil
 reality / illusion
 transcendent / factual
 incorporeal / embodied
 timeless / time bound
 infinite / finite
 

 These opposites logically contradict one another and yet are somehow supposed 
to fit together, our world and the 'world' denoted by the token 'god', but a 
contradiction simply means that an argument is false. In other words classical 
theism is attempting to ignore half of reality by shunting it away under the 
rug and tacking the rest on a concept called 'god' which is walled off from the 
corruption of those superlatives. On the face of it, those superlatives look 
impressive. If you are a priest, a purveyor of a faith, it is really a great 
thing to be able to ride on the coattails of such a conception, because it 
makes you look good, because you have the appearance of being associated with 
something above and beyond the miserable herd you can look down upon. That is 
appearance only.
 

 Absolute being has nothing to do with metaphysics. Belief in something does 
not materialise that something, it is simply an idea that one thinks is true in 
the absence of whatever it is that one thinks is true. Metaphysics is an 
imaginary playground of the mind, an illusion, a make believe story, that 
exists as thought only. Absolute being has to do with concrete reality and 
experience, it is the very world you 

[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
Thanks for that reply.  I rushing a little here, but one take away I get is 
that for that to happen, (existence after death), there'd have to be something 
we are presently unaware of. 

 And yes, I don't care to speculate too much about things, but in my opinion, 
in our western dominated notions of medicine and the body, there are things, 
many things, that have escaped our ability to detect.  So, I would speculate 
that there are a so called causal body, or a subtle body that would be the body 
that does the crossing over.  
 

 Now, whether or not some evidence will come to the fore to support this, and 
other heretofore unexplored (at least by western medicine) such as different 
pranas, I have no idea.  But yes, causal bodies, subtle bodies would be part of 
my belief system.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Personally, I think it would be cool if there was an afterlife of some 
description but it's the last thing I'm expecting. For there to be anything it 
would either have to have evolved (most likely impossible) or there is 
something fundamental we don't know about the universe which is possible but 
unlikely in a case like this because the potential for us to escape to another 
realm would have to have been waiting for us to evolve into it and it didn't 
happen like that, there was no goal for life to aim for. Unless that's the 
evidence for god that everyone seems to be looking for, but it's a bit of a hit 
and miss kind of god and he might have had a very long wait indeed as we 
needn't have survived this far. 

 This is what makes Hameroff's theory about quantum consciousness being a 
detachable soul such an attractive proposition, but it isn't one that I thought 
more than twice about. As far as I know (and it isn't much) quantum stuff 
couldn't survive either in the brain (too hot) or outside (too much 
interference) it would need some sort of motive force to hold it together and 
it's hard to see what that might be as quanta are supposed to be the ultimately 
small thing, there isn't anything else as far as we know. It sounds like 
desperate new age thinking to me.
 

 Other physicists dismiss it utterly, except people with books or prayers to 
sell like John Hagelin who talk vast amounts of shit of their own. Someone 
should draw a chart of unlikely claims made by quantum physicists so we can see 
just how relatively impossible each thing is.
 
 Research into NDEs could give us a clue, people report being outside of their 
bodies in operating rooms and claim to have heard conversations between doctors 
that they shouldn't have been able to hear due to being unconscious. To see if 
it's a real phenomena instead of a shift in consciousness in some way hospitals 
in England have things placed on high shelves out of the sight of people in the 
room. So if someone actually leaves their body they should be able to tell us 
what they saw which would qualify as objective proof of out of the body 
experiences. And, if it was repeated consistently it would cause a scientific 
revolution. So far nothing, but NDE's are rare and  you just might have other 
things on your mind than searching shelves for weird stuff. 
 

 And then, I remember reading a book about it and of the people who meet 
relatives on the other side, a third meet relatives who are still alive! That 
leaves it dead in the water as a theory about life after death but it's still 
interesting and one of the few paranormal things we can check.
 

 Or maybe when we die we have an NDE because of lack of oxygen or changes in 
the brain that makes us think we are heading towards an afterlife. That'd be a 
nice touch.
 

 Richard Dawkins is exasperated that people don't leave religions in flocks to 
join his intellectually superior atheist position. But certain annihilation of 
the soul at death is rather cold comfort and a bit of a tough call to rally 
round! So I live in hope, but not expectation.
 

 

 

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Not as long as you'd 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
I mean, I guess it could boil down to one question.  
 

 If there is consciousness after physical death, why?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't 
a fan of the Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used 
to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly 
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her 
go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in 
fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough 
ourselves. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 




 





[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread s3raphita
Re But the necessary existence is another therefore... that doesn't follow 
from the previous statement.:
 The ontological argument re-phrased. 

 Definition: God = that than which nothing greater can be conceived.
 Claim: a Being that *cannot* be conceived not to exist is greater than a Being 
that *can* be conceived not to exist.
 

 Muse over that definition and claim and they both sound appropriate to our 
idea of God, no?
 

 An atheist or agnostic is therefore saying: Well, yes, IF God exists He would 
be a Being that cannot be conceived not to exist, but as we don't know whether 
or not He exists we're not getting anywhere. Let's unpack this sentence by our 
atheist: it comes down to this:
 God is a Being that *cannot* be conceived not to exist, but I *can* conceive 
of Him not existing. 
 

 That is a flat contradiction.
 

 The issue boils down to what Judy calls a category error. To imagine that 
God's existence could be doubted is to put God's existence in the same category 
as the existence of salted popcorn, unicorns or quarks. It's to imagine that if 
God does exist He just *happens* to exist (like you) and so might *happen* not 
to exist, but God's existence is super-essential. 
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Internet TV review: House Of Cards

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Reminds me of the time I was in Baltimore for a business convention and took a 
boat ride to the area where they had all the restaurants.  I had dinner at the 
place known for it's crap cakes, and sort of stuffed myself.  After dinner for 
some reason, I decided I wanted a cigar, so stopped into a tobacco store and 
got one, or maybe it was two. 

 Anyway, I walked around some smoking my cigars and finally got on the loaded 
boat to get to the place we started, and once on the boat I started to get 
light headed.  I said to myself, God, please don't let me throw up, please 
don't let me throw up.  But shortly thereafter I had to lean off the side of 
the board with a very loud throw up.
 

 Now, that was embarrassing!
 

 I guess God didn't come through for me in that instance. (-:
 

 I hope you went for distance and not style!
 

 

 

 

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 The first pizza joint I encountered was in HK, and the pizza guy only spoke 
Italian, in Hong Kong...Their pizza was really good, baked in a real pizza 
oven, so it took just minutes. The last time I was there, was with a buddy 
visiting from the Navy, on RR from Vietnam (1971-ish), and we smoked an 
authentic Thai Stick, and then got hungry - what a shocker. I recall trying to 
get up from the table, after eating pizza, and drinking Chianti, for what 
seemed like hours, and passing out very slowly and gracefully, onto my back, on 
 the cool stone floor, and then coming to, several seconds later, just like in 
the movies, with a bunch of faces staring down at me, quizzically. lol - I made 
it outside, and the fresh air revived me after awhile. Obviously, I never 
returned.:-)
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Parma Pizza.  Does anyone else remember Parma Pizza?  It was a frozen pizza, 
and I remember cutting open the little frozen plastic packet that contained the 
tomato sauce, and then the cheese.  Very fine indeed.  In fact with my favorite 
pizza now, it is the tomato sauce that makes it.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Interesting about the minimalist pizzas, since a lot of the Italian ones are 
like that - not the triple cheese and meat with pineapple monsters you 
encounter here. Garlic in the crust definitely rocks.
Even though it has been 40 years since I lived abroad, I am always a little 
surprised at how everything, pizza included, has gone global. There was a small 
amount of that, growing up - like seeing a Coca-Cola sign out in the middle of 
nowhere, on a tropical island, or the single outpost of Wimpys (British 
burger chain) in Hong Kong, that was unfortunately, inedible - not a lot of 
cattle ranching going on in Hong Kong.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 The best pizza in town (at least home-delivery pizza) is from a place 
ironically named New York Pizza. It's more thick crust than thin crust, and 
they sprinkle the crust liberally with garlic so it's much tastier than the 
thin, limp pizzas you get in other places here in Leiden. In general, Europeans 
tend to go for minimalist pizza, with only a couple of toppings, but this 
chain also allows you to build your own and create truly monumental one-dish 
meals. 

 

 And yes, it was fun. Many of my friends are ex-pats and all are...uh...shall 
we say...critical of the US, so seeing its politicians portrayed as they 
probably are in real life was right up their alley. Still, there were a few 
moments that no one was prepared for, such as the end of episode 1 of this new 
season. *Nobody* saw that coming.  

 

 From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 3:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Internet TV review: House Of Cards
 
 
   Oops - yeah, I fucked up on that one -- Much of the time, when you do not 
set the stage for your viewing pleasure, it sounds like you are holed up in 
your room, in front of the tube. But obviously, not always. Sounds like a great 
time!! Can the Dutch make a decent pizza - is it thin crust, or deep dish?


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Sounds to me as if you've never figured out that you can watch a TV series in 
the company of other people, in my case half a dozen friends who also liked the 
first season who took advantage of me being the first person in town to get the 
entire series.  We went through fairly extraordinary amounts of pizza and beer, 
and last I checked that constituted 'social interaction,' at least as it's 
practiced here in the Netherlands. :-)

Besides, watching characters on TV whom you suspect to be psychopaths beats the 
pants off of hanging around FFL and watching people *prove* that they're 
psychopaths. :-)

 From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread TurquoiseBee
From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...
  

 I mean, I guess it could boil down to one question.  
  If there is consciousness after physical death, why?

Why not? 

I differ with Curtis and others God-skeptics here in that I don't necessarily 
see a one-to-one mapping between brain chemistry and consciousness. I've had 
too many OOTB experiences and remembrances of time spent in the Bardo between 
death and life to not place some credence in them. 

True, they could all be illusions, mere brain farts that I am interpreting as 
memories, but they are just as strong and just as real as any other memories 
I've ever formed, so I give them the same weight. I've also studied enough 
Tibetan Buddhism to be comfortable with its 
descriptions of life after death, and had them resonate so deeply with my 
own memories that I pay that belief system heed.

Do I think about this stuff much? No way. It's just a baseline set of 
assumptions that I assume...for now. I certainly don't debate them or try to 
convince others to assume the same things. As I've said many times before, I 
don't see the percentage in dwelling on the subject too much. I've got my own 
version of Pascal's Wager, and it keeps me feeling fine and dandy, and focusing 
on life, not death. 

Pascal's Wager? Classic God/No God argument. I never liked it because it always 
struck me as entirely fear-based, but here goes. As I remember it, ole' Blaise 
came up with his strongest argument for believing in God, and phrased it in 
terms of a bet, a wager. You either bet that God exists, or you bet that he 
doesn't. This leads to four possible outcomes. If you bet that God doesn't 
exist and he doesn't...no harm, no foul. If you bet that he does exist and he 
doesn't...again no harm, no foul. If you bet that God does exist and he does, 
you win. If you bet that God doesn't exist and he doesbt...you lose. 
Especially if you believe in sin and punishment and a vengeful God and all 
that. Pascal figured that the safest bet was to wager that God exists. 

My wager is more like this, because I don't believe in any of that sin and 
vengeful God crap. If I believe in life after death and there is some, then I 
will be pleased by that and I win. If I believe that there is life after death 
and there is none, and everything just goes black, there will be no I present 
to even be disappointed, so again I win. 

So I'll stick with my win-win baseline set of assumptions for now. :-)





 From: steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...
 


  
I mean, I guess it could boil down to one question.  

If there is consciousness after physical death, why?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:


Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by someone 
who doesn't
even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing *literally*
just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after
death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has anything to do
with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in a God,
but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after
physical death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either
the existence of a God or the existence of any kind of morality or
fairness as you imply with your notions about karma. 

I think
that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they
won't be so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's
why they invent the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great
Mystery that we call death, I pass along an interesting song that will
probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't a fan of the
Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used to
close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to
see her go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery,
as much in fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out
soon enough ourselves. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:


Does
it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the
atheist position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless


Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence 

[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 But the necessary existence is another therefore... that doesn't follow 
from the previous statement. 

 The best way to kill the argument I think is to decide on moral 
interventionism. Seems reasonable to me that god would have a strong moral 
sense, stronger than mine even, and that he wouldn't like to see people suffer. 
If I see two yobs attacking an old lady I will intervene.
 

 Therefore (proper one this time) our perfect god who is bound to exist will 
not be able to help himself if he sees suffering. As he clearly does not 
intervene in his creation in this way we can conclude on of two things:
 That this logic is flawed and he doesn't exist or that he doesn't care, in 
which case he isn't the perfect being the logic claims he must be.
 

 Oh, this idea of God is a very limited one. Even if I did believe in God 
(which I happen to) God is not nearly so simplistic in either his/her/its 
methods and also I don't feel that most of us are given the depth of insight 
necessary to understand or conceive of how and why life is like it is. This 
last is proven if you simply look at how everyone flounders around trying to 
make sense of it all! So, we know one thing for sure, people can't really 
explain to the satisfaction of all or even comprehend for themselves the 
reasons for the complexity of their lives. This leads to all sorts of theories 
on the existence of God and being the limited creatures we are we try and place 
human traits and characteristics in a God or no God of our choice and making. 
There is an incomprehensible aspect to God and rightly so. Just because we 
can't justify or understand how God is operating hardly negates his/her/its 
existence. I don't know how or why the weather does what it does but that 
doesn't mean weather doesn't exist or that weather doesn't follow laws of 
physics and nature. I don't think anything is random. One thing leads to the 
next - energy shifts, changes form, moves stuff, creates other stuff and all 
the while the complexity and dynamic of it all is beyond anyone to comprehend 
and understand the nuances of it all. Similarly with this creator. But the 
creator is not necessarily some Being and I find it improbable we would 
recognize the creator as a person-like entity - either physically or in the 
characteristics he/she/it embodies. Not that the creator couldn't appear to us 
as such, I think it can and has - many times.
 

 There is of course a third option and it seems to me that it's as correct as 
my first one: Theology is a bunch of true believers sitting around trying to 
think up long winded arguments to defend something that patently doesn't exist 
in the way that all the old scriptures claim it does. It clearly takes a lot of 
work to wind your way to the conclusion you have decided upon.
 

 It's an odd way to go about things and this is why science has proved such a 
vastly superior explanatory system, there's no way a scientist would let the 
first assumption (or axiom) go past without it being tested against the 
evidence. 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote:

 Re I don't get the final therefore...  I can conceive of fabulous things 
but nature is under no obligation to create them.:
 

 Because only that than which no greater can be conceived has *necessary* 
existence. Everything else has accidental existence (you, for example). The 
necessary existence is God's unique selling point.
 An atheist is claiming that it's possible that God doesn't exist.
 Therefore, said atheist is claiming God doesn't necessarily exist.
 Therefore, said atheist is claiming God doesn't exist necessarily.
 But necessary existence is part of our definition of God so said atheist is 
caught in a logical contradiction. Ouch!
 








[FairfieldLife] Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread emptybill
My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my 
wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know that this internet 
troll is stalking her.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread Mike Dixon

Dude! You can *believe* in both, religion and science! And many of those 40% 
do! Equating anybody that is uninformed about the nature of the solar system 
with those that follow religion is just down right bigoted. BTW, criminalizing 
religion *is* a crime, check your first amendment. I know of no religion that 
currently teaches that the sun revolves around the earth. If you want to find 
blame, look at the education or lack of education young people are receiving 
today. There seems to be a lot of focus on raising little Johnny's self esteem 
and not hurting his *creative* thinking process by not telling him he's wrong 
when he is. I'm sure there has to be other things to consider as well but 
blaming people for being uninformed about the solar system on religion is just 
as ignorant. Personally, I think people tend to give stupid answers to 
pollsters just to have some fun or may have misunderstood the question or could 
be total stoners.



On Monday, February 17, 2014 11:35 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
  
  
Dude, I admire your optimism but 40% of Americans believe in creationism.

I blame the education system,(and what the hell are parents doing?),  thinking 
the sun goes round the earth is fair enough as that is how it appears, but for 
schools not to give you basic info about the planet we live on is a shocking 
state of affairs. I swear I knew this stuff before I could walk, but I am a 
born nerd so maybe that explains it...

Teaching creationism ought to be a crime though, children don't deserve to have 
their heads actually filled with nonsense. I hear there is a museum dedicated 
to creationism in America, with models of dinosaurs and people with sciencey 
sounding explanations about floods etc Would love to go, but it means 
giving money to creationists.

If you can get people to believe ridiculous things, it's easier to get them to 
do dangerous things








---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote:


That's what a survey showed.  But I can't help thinking some of these people 
intentionally answered the questionnaire incorrectly as a joke.

http://news.yahoo.com/quarter-americans-convinced-sun-revolves-around-earth-survey-062143342--abc-news-topstories.html


  
 

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote:

 My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my 
wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know that this internet 
troll is stalking her. 
 

 This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to someone's 
wall (or was it a private message?)  is stalking then Facebook is one big 
stalk. On the other hand, you didn't explain this clearly nor the context in 
which it happened.  Barry claimed I was stalking him on FB when I wrote a 
comment on someone else's wall in response to his comment. Hardly.



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread TurquoiseBee

Stalkers of a feather flock together. 




 From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:09 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention
 


  
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote:



My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my 
wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know that this internet 
troll is stalking her.

This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to someone's wall 
(or was it a private message?)  is stalking then Facebook is one big stalk. 
On the other hand, you didn't explain this clearly nor the context in which it 
happened.  Barry claimed I was stalking him on FB when I wrote a comment on 
someone else's wall in response to his comment. Hardly.


[FairfieldLife] RE: The Skeptic and the Scientist

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808

 Gosh, you are quite insane.
 

 I wonder what it must be like to be so lacking in self awareness.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 I know that dialogue must embarrass you, Salyavin. Much too accurate a satire 
for comfort. 



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may 
continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there 
is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity.  
 And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at 
birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people 
recalling things that they have no business recalling.  And when you bring up 
these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card 
such as, There's so much we don't know about genetics, or There's so much we 
don't know about the brain.  Sounds very much like, God works in mysteries 
ways.

 

 For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher 
power at work here.
 

 I do too. And I find it so strange when people say I want proof because it 
is everywhere. There is nothing but proof from the oatmeal you cook for 
breakfast to the airplane that flies. It is just so strange that everyone 
doesn't see that. It is like being in a garden and the person next to you asks 
where the flowers are.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't 
a fan of the Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used 
to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly 
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her 
go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in 
fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough 
ourselves. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 




 












[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
But god's existence isn't super essential. That's the point. It's all the wrong 
way round, I can conceive of a universe without god, I appear to be living in 
one. So the argument must be falling down somewhere, probably because I can 
conceive of him not existing - bit of a spanner in the philosophical works 
there. 

 How did you get on with the moral interventionism argument? God really is a 
git if he exists isn't he!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote:

 Re But the necessary existence is another therefore... that doesn't 
follow from the previous statement.:
 The ontological argument re-phrased. 

 Definition: God = that than which nothing greater can be conceived.
 Claim: a Being that *cannot* be conceived not to exist is greater than a Being 
that *can* be conceived not to exist.
 

 Muse over that definition and claim and they both sound appropriate to our 
idea of God, no?
 

 An atheist or agnostic is therefore saying: Well, yes, IF God exists He would 
be a Being that cannot be conceived not to exist, but as we don't know whether 
or not He exists we're not getting anywhere. Let's unpack this sentence by our 
atheist: it comes down to this:
 God is a Being that *cannot* be conceived not to exist, but I *can* conceive 
of Him not existing. 
 

 That is a flat contradiction.
 

 The issue boils down to what Judy calls a category error. To imagine that 
God's existence could be doubted is to put God's existence in the same category 
as the existence of salted popcorn, unicorns or quarks. It's to imagine that if 
God does exist He just *happens* to exist (like you) and so might *happen* not 
to exist, but God's existence is super-essential. 
 







[FairfieldLife] RE: Photoshopped?

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister@... wrote:

 If it ain't shopped, my hypothesis is that guy whas thrown towards the lake 
back first...


 

 This is so funny because this guy is having trouble keeping his balance in the 
air, like he is on a tight rope! Very funny and not believable as much as I 
wish it was.



[FairfieldLife] RE: The Skeptic and the Scientist

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Um, I'm lacking in self-awareness, but you were completely unable to recognize 
the similarities between Feser's satire and our discussion? That's pretty 
amusing. Right down to your unwillingness to crack a book to learn something 
about classical theism because you already know it's nonsense. And that even 
though most of what you said about classical theism was wrong... 

 Gosh, you are quite insane. 

 I wonder what it must be like to be so lacking in self awareness.
 

 I know that dialogue must embarrass you, Salyavin. Much too accurate a satire 
for comfort. 






[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
So basically what you are saying is that the early gods that man invented 
turned out to be too easily disposed of intellectually, so everyone is going 
out of their minds to make him as oblique and impenetrable as possible yet 
still keep him existing in some way. I'm a lot more interested in why the god 
meme stays relevant. What does it do for you? Or perhaps, what does the 
universe lack without whatever powers you are giving this supreme being? 

 



[FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jr_esq
Emptybill, 

 His language of delivery is seemingly friendly, but there is a needle point to 
make his intention known. :)


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 
Stalkers of a feather flock together. 
 

 In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.

 From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:09 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention
 
 
   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote:
 
 My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my 
wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know that this internet 
troll is stalking her. 

 

 This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to someone's 
wall (or was it a private message?)  is stalking then Facebook is one big 
stalk. On the other hand, you didn't explain this clearly nor the context in 
which it happened.  Barry claimed I was stalking him on FB when I wrote a 
comment on someone else's wall in response to his comment. Hardly.


 


 













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread Share Long
John, me being me, I wonder if it happened around the time of the full Moon. 
Plus all those malefics in Libra! 





On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:32 AM, jr_...@yahoo.com jr_...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
 
  
Emptybill,

His language of delivery is seemingly friendly, but there is a needle point to 
make his intention known. :)


[FairfieldLife] Why Can't Hinduism Rid Itself of Fake Gurus?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson

Why Can't Hinduism Rid Itself of Fake Gurus?

Shikha Dalmia|Nov. 3, 2013 10:00 am

Today is Diwali, the biggest Hindu holiday, when believers celebrate the 
victory of good over evil. Usually, nothing dampens the Diwali spirit among 
observant Hindus, but this year there is a cloud hanging over some 30 million 
followers of Asaram Bapu, one of India’s most popular Hindu gurus. This 
self-styled godman, a septuagenarian who has amassed a $1 billion empire by 
preaching the evils of sexual desire, is accused of raping the minor daughter 
of an ardent devotee.

Asaram is under arrest and, regardless of the final verdict, is finished. But 
he’s not the first Hindu guru to go rogue, and he won’t be the last. That’s 
because to the extent that the loose and amorphous Hindu faith has avoided the 
tendency to militancy, internecine conflict and intolerance experienced by the 
more organized monotheistic faiths, it is at the price of opening itself to 
charlatans and cults.

A thousand gurus have always bloomed among Hindus.  In the 1980s, there was 
Osho Rajneesh, whose fleet of Rolls Royces’ and message of free love got him 
ejected from Oregon after a four-year stay. Among the new generation is the 
Hugging Amma, who has accumulated a net worth of about $250 million by jet 
setting around and giving 33 million hugs . Then there is Nirmal Baba, the TV 
phenom, who advises women to eat green—not red—chutney with samosas to get 
pregnant.

Bigger than all was Asaram. He combined a message that appealed to Hindus’ 
puritanical sensibilities—renunciation of sensual pleasures and material 
comforts—with impressive oratory to generate a worldwide following. His 
devotees include a former prime minister, leading politicos, rich businessmen 
and professionals. The donations he raked in allowed him to erect 1,700 
religious schools and 435 ashrams the world over.

The antics of gurus provide steady fodder for comedy in India. But Asaram’s 
behavior was raising eyebrows even before the rape accusations. His anti-sex 
crusade had morphed from nuttiness (advising couples to avoid having sex on 
religious holidays) to extremism (demanding that Valentine’s Day be replaced 
with Parent Worship Day).

Some details of Asaram’s rise-and-fall are unique, but the basic plotline of a 
guru corrupted by power is as familiar as a B-grade Bollywood movie. The puzzle 
is why can't Hinduism, the world's oldest religion, rid itself of fake gurus?

Hinduism, unlike Christianity, is not an organized faith with settled dogmas, 
an established church and a priestly hierarchy handing down truths worked out 
top-down as in Catholicism. Nor does it prescribe a strict and elaborate code 
of law as Judaism’s torah and Islam’s sharia.

Rather, it is an open-ended faith that has a core goal—experiencing the God 
within and releasing oneself from the cycle of birth and rebirth — but no set 
prescription for achieving it. It simply calls upon believers to overcome their 
inner demons and find their own unique path to enlightenment. But a good guru, 
who has overcome the vices of ordinary mortals and reached a higher state of 
consciousness, can greatly accelerate the journey.

The effect of such radical openness, on the one had, is that Hinduism has 
produced an “absolutely staggering” body of “scientific, faith-based and 
experience-based knowledge,” notes Josh Schrei, a religion writer. 
Diametrically opposed paths for achieving inner bliss have been explored: 
asceticism and materialism; intoxication and sobriety; sensuality and celibacy; 
solitude and communion.

On the other hand, Hinduism’s spiritual laissez faire means that it lacks the 
inner resources of other religions for quality control. Unlike monotheistic 
faiths, Hinduism is not preoccupied with policing superstition, idolatry, and 
heresy.  Literally anyone with a formula for enlightenment—and the charisma to 
sell it—can hang a shingle saying “guru inside” and wait for the flock to 
arrive. (This was perfectly captured by the recent documentary Kumare in which 
an Indian American born and raised in New York, moves to Arizona feigns a guru 
accent, invents some mumbo jumbo, and quickly acquires a devoted following.)

While there is no external hierarchy minding the gurus, there is an extreme 
internal hierarchy between the guru and the disciple. The guru’s superior 
consciousness is neither visible nor describable. The only way for the faithful 
to reach it is by surrendering completely. Questioning the guru is not a sin, 
but it is counterproductive. “Faith is to believe what you do not see,” 
explained Swami Chinmayananda, one of Hinduism’s greatest theologians. “The 
reward of faith is to see what you believed.”

Observers of Hinduism sometimes regard this total lack of oversight of gurus 
who can “simply make things up” to wield enormous powers over disciples as a 
defect. But that betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the mind of its 
adherents: They are not gullible fools. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Country Chuckles

2014-02-18 Thread Pundit Sir
Don't find fault. Find a remedy. - Henry Ford


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.com wrote:

 The best place to find a helping hand is at the end of your own arm. -
 Swedish proverb


 On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.com wrote:

 The wise man has long ears and a short tongue. - Anonymous


 On Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 Don't mess with old men, they didn't get old by being stupid. - Will
 Rogers


 On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 11:15 AM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 Anyone can fail many times, but you aren't a failure until you begin
 to blame somebody else. - John Burroughs


 On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 Doing nothing is hard to do - you never know when you're finished. -
 Leslie Nielsen


 On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse. - Will
 Rogers


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Pundit Sir pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 10:27 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:






 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

 That's it, Richard! I'm in love with Will Rogers. Is he still
 alive? (-:

 Long dead, Share:
 On August 15, 1935, Rogers was on a flight to Asia with the famous
 pilot Wiley Post when the craft developed engine troubles and crashed 
 near
 Point Barrow, Alaska http://www.history.com/topics/alaska. The
 crash killed both men. Rogers was only 55.



  On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:46 AM, Pundit Sir punditster@...
 wrote:

 Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance. -
 Will Rogers


 On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Share Long sharelong60@...wrote:


 Richard, I love this guy! I bet he was enlightened (-:

 PS Maharishi said that at the deepest level of every atom, even
 every atom of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. Go figure!




  On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:14 AM, Pundit Sir punditster@...
 wrote:

 Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
 it. - Will Rogers


 On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Pundit Sir punditster@... wrote:

 Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your mouth is
 moving. - Will Rogers


 On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 10:54 AM, authfriend@... wrote:


 So what was the good catch you said I made, Share? I don't
 believe you've responded to that question.

  Keep 'em coming Richard and thank you... 








  











Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jr_esq
Share, 

 I would assume it's the full moon which brings about strange behavior in some 
people.  But those malefics in Libra are much more destructive than a nasty 
email.  The eruption of a volcano in Indonesia is much more representative of 
the malefic effects.
 

 We should keep a careful watch for bad news in countries where there are 
already ongoing wars and in those countries with unstable leadership, like 
North Korea.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 8:45 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
If I believe that there is life after death and there is none, and 
everything just goes black, there will be no I present to even be 
disappointed, so again I win. 


So, who does the winning?


Re: [FairfieldLife] The coming joy of Aquarius

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/18/2014 4:59 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 they make it sound like its just ABOUT to happen, just round the bend 
 so the faithful will continue to fill the coffers. 
 
Sometimes you just have to keep working in order to get the PC to boot 
up. If you fail, there will be NOTHING to fill your coffers. Just keep 
at and don't give up - if all else fails try booting from a disk to get 
into the BIOS.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Internet TV review: House Of Cards

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/17/2014 8:06 PM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:
Many of my friends are ex-pats and all are...uh...shall we 
say...critical of the US


Now that's funny - expats in Leiden, NE, that are still interested in 
U.S. politics, watching an American TV show, and eating Italian food 
called New York pizza. Some expats just feel better when they have 
someone to talk to I guess. Go figure.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
Yes, yes, yes! Thanks Ann and Steve.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may 
continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there 
is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity.  
 And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at 
birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people 
recalling things that they have no business recalling.  And when you bring up 
these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card 
such as, There's so much we don't know about genetics, or There's so much we 
don't know about the brain.  Sounds very much like, God works in mysteries 
ways.

 

 For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher 
power at work here.
 

 I do too. And I find it so strange when people say I want proof because it 
is everywhere. There is nothing but proof from the oatmeal you cook for 
breakfast to the airplane that flies. It is just so strange that everyone 
doesn't see that. It is like being in a garden and the person next to you asks 
where the flowers are.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't 
a fan of the Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used 
to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly 
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her 
go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in 
fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough 
ourselves. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 




 














Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
On the other hand, I was appalled at a book my granddaughter brought over, 
several years ago, when she was about six. Her mom is the perfect born again 
(I tend to think of them as, reheated, vs. reborn) Xtian hypocrite.
It was a creationist coloring book, stating that the earth was just 6,000 years 
old, and that man existed with the dinosaurs, etc. After I saw that bullshit, 
the book somehow got lost, and ended up in the recycling bin.:-)
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mdixon.6569@... wrote:

 Dude! You can *believe* in both, religion and science! And many of those 40% 
do! Equating anybody that is uninformed about the nature of the solar system 
with those that follow religion is just down right bigoted. BTW, criminalizing 
religion *is* a crime, check your first amendment. I know of no religion that 
currently teaches that the sun revolves around the earth. If you want to find 
blame, look at the education or lack of education young people are receiving 
today. There seems to be a lot of focus on raising little Johnny's self esteem 
and not hurting his *creative* thinking process by not telling him he's wrong 
when he is. I'm sure there has to be other things to consider as well but 
blaming people for being uninformed about the solar system on religion is just 
as ignorant. Personally, I think people tend to give stupid answers to 
pollsters just to have some fun or may have misunderstood the question or could 
be total stoners.
 
 
 On Monday, February 17, 2014 11:35 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   Dude, I admire your optimism but 40% of Americans believe in creationism.
 

 I blame the education system,(and what the hell are parents doing?),  thinking 
the sun goes round the earth is fair enough as that is how it appears, but for 
schools not to give you basic info about the planet we live on is a shocking 
state of affairs. I swear I knew this stuff before I could walk, but I am a 
born nerd so maybe that explains it...
 

 Teaching creationism ought to be a crime though, children don't deserve to 
have their heads actually filled with nonsense. I hear there is a museum 
dedicated to creationism in America, with models of dinosaurs and people with 
sciencey sounding explanations about floods etc Would love to go, but it 
means giving money to creationists.
 

 If you can get people to believe ridiculous things, it's easier to get them 
to do dangerous things
 

 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote:

 That's what a survey showed.  But I can't help thinking some of these people 
intentionally answered the questionnaire incorrectly as a joke. 

 
http://news.yahoo.com/quarter-americans-convinced-sun-revolves-around-earth-survey-062143342--abc-news-topstories.html
 
http://news.yahoo.com/quarter-americans-convinced-sun-revolves-around-earth-survey-062143342--abc-news-topstories.html
 

 








 


 














[FairfieldLife] 'thot'

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
My latest - surfing the line between music and thinking. Two minutes:
https://app.box.com/s/1umn41y4wd8vmgif2w4u 
https://app.box.com/s/1umn41y4wd8vmgif2w4u
copyright Temple Dog 2014

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock

   --- turquoiseb turquoiseb@... wrote:
   
  Stalkers of a feather flock together. 
 
 --- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:
 

  In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
  is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.

I think he enjoys making false accusations, and probably 
enjoys being stalked as well.

I wonder how many people he has accused of stalking?

I think narcissists like Uncle Tantra love attention, which 
is apparent from his posts.
 
   --- emptybill emptybill@... wrote:

 My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message 
 to my wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know 
 that this internet troll is stalking her. 


   --- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:
   

This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to 
someone's wall (or was it a private message?)  is stalking then 
Facebook is one big stalk. On the other hand, you didn't explain this 
clearly nor the context in which it happened.  Barry claimed I was 
stalking him on FB when I wrote a comment on someone else's wall in 
response to his comment. Hardly.


 


 















[FairfieldLife] An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
From my adventures a couple of days ago - this rock has a lot of awareness (and 
I am not referring to myself!):
https://app.box.com/s/32pdpokzgr5h0f8fs0b5 
https://app.box.com/s/32pdpokzgr5h0f8fs0b5

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
Mom and apple pie.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jedi_spock@... wrote:

   --- turquoiseb turquoiseb@... wrote:
   
  Stalkers of a feather flock together. 
 
 

 --- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:
  

  In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
  is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.

 I think he enjoys making false accusations, and probably 
enjoys being stalked as well.

I wonder how many people he has accused of stalking?

I think narcissists like Uncle Tantra love attention, which 
is apparent from his posts.
 
   --- emptybill emptybill@... wrote:

 My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message 
 to my wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know 
 that this internet troll is stalking her. 


--- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:
   

This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to 
someone's wall (or was it a private message?)  is stalking then 
Facebook is one big stalk. On the other hand, you didn't explain this 
clearly nor the context in which it happened.  Barry claimed I was 
stalking him on FB when I wrote a comment on someone else's wall in 
response to his comment. Hardly.


 


 















[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you 
want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to 
say he stalks more than anybody else here. 

   Stalkers of a feather flock together.
 

  In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
  is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.
 

 I think he enjoys making false accusations, and probably 
 enjoys being stalked as well.

I wonder how many people he has accused of stalking?

I think narcissists like Uncle Tantra love attention, which 
is apparent from his posts.
 













Re: [FairfieldLife] An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
That's pretty cool - where is it? Is it on public land?

On Tue, 2/18/14, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com 
wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] An amazing rock
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 6:17 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   From my adventures a couple of days ago - this rock
 has a lot of awareness (and I am not referring to myself!):
 https://app.box.com/s/32pdpokzgr5h0f8fs0b5
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread Share Long
I agree, Doc, and would add: this rock is a Being! Love the view too. Thanks 
for posting such an awesome photo.





On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:17 PM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com 
doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote:
 
  
From my adventures a couple of days ago - this rock has a lot of awareness 
(and I am not referring to myself!):
https://app.box.com/s/32pdpokzgr5h0f8fs0b5


Re: [FairfieldLife] 'thot'

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Man post some more of that - playing that really amped up the bliss I am 
currently perceiving (no joke, it did!)

On Tue, 2/18/14, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com 
wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] 'thot'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 6:10 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   My latest - surfing the line between music and
 thinking. Two minutes:
 https://app.box.com/s/1umn41y4wd8vmgif2w4u
 copyright Temple Dog 2014
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may 
continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there 
is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity.  
 And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at 
birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people 
recalling things that they have no business recalling.  And when you bring up 
these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card 
such as, There's so much we don't know about genetics, or There's so much we 
don't know about the brain.  Sounds very much like, God works in mysteries 
ways.

 

 For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher 
power at work here.
 

 I do too. And I find it so strange when people say I want proof because it 
is everywhere. There is nothing but proof from the oatmeal you cook for 
breakfast to the airplane that flies. It is just so strange that everyone 
doesn't see that. It is like being in a garden and the person next to you asks 
where the flowers are.
 Ah, now I see where you are coming from



 














Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Share Long
Salyavin, I actually find these questions quite profound, worth mulling over, 
etc. I also like your question about what is my karma bouncing off of but won't 
address that here and now.

Anyway, when I think about my belief in a supreme existence, I realize what it 
does for me is create a possibility of a unity underlying all the separate 
existences I know via my senses. That FEELS right to me even though I can't 
prove it.




On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:45 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
  
So basically what you are saying is that the early gods that man invented 
turned out to be too easily disposed of intellectually, so everyone is going 
out of their minds to make him as oblique and impenetrable as possible yet 
still keep him existing in some way. I'm a lot more interested in why the god 
meme stays relevant. What does it do for you? Or perhaps, what does the 
universe lack without whatever powers you are giving this supreme being?




Re: [FairfieldLife] An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread nablusoss1008
It certainly has personality and sensual lips :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock


 
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs20/i/2007/292/8/0/devID_version_1_by_bishie_stalker_club.jpg
 
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs20/i/2007/292/8/0/devID_version_1_by_bishie_stalker_club.jpg
 
--- authfriend authfriend@... wrote:

 Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you 
want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to 
say he stalks more than anybody else here. 
 
   Stalkers of a feather flock together.
 
 
  In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
  is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.
 

 
I think he enjoys making false accusations, and probably 
 enjoys being stalked as well.

I wonder how many people he has accused of stalking?

I think narcissists like Uncle Tantra love attention, which 
is apparent from his posts.
 











 



Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 12:23 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. 
But if you want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, 
then you have to say he stalks more than anybody else here.


By stalking, Barry probably means monitoring all his messages posted 
to FFL 24 x 7 from a home office by someone who is obsessed with 
correcting and commenting on his every word and every sentence. I'm 
convinced that someone, maybe more than one person, is monitoring all my 
posts to FFL. I came over here to Yahoo Groups from Google Groups way 
before Barry or Judy - why would they be monitoring all my posts more 
than anybody else here? Go figure.


[FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread jr_esq
Salyavin, 

 Here in the US, the people are free to believe in any religion or ideas they 
want just as long as they don't harm others in the process.  The founding 
fathers of this country were wise in including this freedom as part of the 
Constitution.  After seeing the religious persecutions in Europe at the time, 
they wisely created a government that was separate from religion or ideologies.
 

 Their ideas are still applicable today.  We see the destruction that happens 
when the Islamists in the Arab countries attempt to impose their wills on those 
who believe otherwise.  In the long run, there may be a world war caused by 
religious feuds in the Middle East that is equivalent to the biblical 
Armageddon.  And, there may be some Americans who would secretly or tacitly 
allow this to happen in the hope of realizing the Rapture.
 

 But I do believe that the creationists here in the US or elsewhere are wrong.  
They fail to understand that the Bible is not a scientific treatise that 
answers the questions relating to the Big Bang and the evolution of life here 
on earth or other planets in the universe.  The Bible should be understood as a 
testament of faith among the Hebrews and the subsequent Christian religion and 
denominations.
   
 



Re: [FairfieldLife] Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 8:53 AM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:
pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my wife's facebook 
page


My wife Rita, who works at Whole Foods in the vitamin section, said she 
got a call on the company phone during business hours from someone 
calling himself Bob wanting to know what kind of shampoo I use n my 
hair. For the record, I use Dr. Bronner's, if anyone else is interested. 
Go figure.


http://www.drbronner.com/


[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock


 

http://media.theweek.com/img/dir_0069/34631_cartoon_main/facebook-stalker.jpg 
http://media.theweek.com/img/dir_0069/34631_cartoon_main/facebook-stalker.jpg

 --- doctordumbass no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
  Mom and apple pie. 
   --- turquoiseb turquoiseb@... wrote:
   
  Stalkers of a feather flock together. 
 


 --- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:

  In your dreams, Bayyy. Always trying to make yourself feel important (or 
  is that impotent) in some way. You're a joke.

--- jedi_spock@... wrote:

 I think he enjoys making false accusations, and probably 
enjoys being stalked as well.

I wonder how many people he has accused of stalking?

I think narcissists like Uncle Tantra love attention, which 
is apparent from his posts.
 
   --- emptybill emptybill@... wrote:

 My oh-so-great buddy, pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message 
 to my wife's facebook page ...  I miss you. Nice for her to know 
 that this internet troll is stalking her. 


--- awoelflebater awoelflebater@... wrote:
   

This is stalking? It's Facebook,  Empty. If posting something to 
someone's wall (or was it a private message?)  is stalking then 
Facebook is one big stalk. On the other hand, you didn't explain this 
clearly nor the context in which it happened.  Barry claimed I was 
stalking him on FB when I wrote a comment on someone else's wall in 
response to his comment. Hardly.


 


 

















Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread jr_esq
Doc, 

 Your daughter-in-law must think you're misguided and must be saved.  :)


[FairfieldLife] RE: An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread jr_esq
Doc, 

 It's a rock and has an awareness of a rock.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread Share Long
Doc's Rock rocks (-:





On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:33 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com jr_...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
 
  
Doc,

It's a rock and has an awareness of a rock.


[FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
We have that freedom here John, I agree that everyone should be free to 
interpret the world as they please. Where we might disagree is whether lying to 
children harms them or not. I say an education that involves things known not 
to be true it leaves children intellectually badly equipped. It also means time 
that could be spent teaching them something useful is wasted. 

 Keep the creationism, geocentrism and anything else that is plainly wrong for 
kids to decide to believe when they are old enough to evaluate evidence 
properly. 
 

 World war starting in the middle east? Bound to happen sooner or later.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote:

 Salyavin, 

 Here in the US, the people are free to believe in any religion or ideas they 
want just as long as they don't harm others in the process.  The founding 
fathers of this country were wise in including this freedom as part of the 
Constitution.  After seeing the religious persecutions in Europe at the time, 
they wisely created a government that was separate from religion or ideologies.
 

 Their ideas are still applicable today.  We see the destruction that happens 
when the Islamists in the Arab countries attempt to impose their wills on those 
who believe otherwise.  In the long run, there may be a world war caused by 
religious feuds in the Middle East that is equivalent to the biblical 
Armageddon.  And, there may be some Americans who would secretly or tacitly 
allow this to happen in the hope of realizing the Rapture.
 

 But I do believe that the creationists here in the US or elsewhere are wrong.  
They fail to understand that the Bible is not a scientific treatise that 
answers the questions relating to the Big Bang and the evolution of life here 
on earth or other planets in the universe.  The Bible should be understood as a 
testament of faith among the Hebrews and the subsequent Christian religion and 
denominations.
   
 






Re: [FairfieldLife] Why Can't Hinduism Rid Itself of Fake Gurus?

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/18/2014 10:40 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 ...a fundamental misunderstanding of the mind of its adherents: They 
 are not gullible fools. They take a calculated risk that they 
 intuitively feel is worth the spiritual payoff. Going down the wrong 
 mystical path is an unavoidable hazard of their religion that they 
 knowingly accept. They are no more blind or blinkered than lovers 
 willing to repeatedly risk heartbreak to find a soul mate.
 
So, you took a calculated risk by going to work for a religious school 
in order to learn how to meditate for world peace, but you didn't get 
the payoff. Maybe you went down the wrong mystical path because you were 
blind and blinkered thinking you could find heaven on earth. Thank God, 
now you've come to your senses and you're back down to earth! You have 
the support of TM-Free and your own computer-repair business working out 
of your garage. Now that's better!


Re: [FairfieldLife] Internet TV review: House Of Cards

2014-02-18 Thread Bhairitu
You should  have had black bars at the top and bottom since it is shot 
and presented in 2:1 aspect ratio.  I didn't realize this with season 1 
because I watched it on my old HD RPTV which has overscan and cropped 
most if not all of the black bars.  The only way to fix that is to have 
the tubes shimmed which is something I didn't want to do myself though 
the tech who resoldered the power supply was willing to do for a fee. 
The new LED set came with overscan on but I turned it off to get the 
full aspect ratios.  So when I watched episode 1 of season 2 last night 
with no network problems there were the black bars at top and bottom.


FYI, Hannibal returns a week from Friday:
http://youtu.be/Y1LzcS7Db68


On 02/17/2014 09:24 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote:
I had it in 1080p full HD form before Netflix ever released it. 
Pirate. My versions were better quality than the streaming Netflix 
versions, which is why my friends came over to my place to binge-watch 
it. :-)



**




[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock


 
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-2OESjjhkhlQ/TrCE_-pDqBI/AWg/Zc4-2_ZBAUI/s1600/facebook.jpg
 
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-2OESjjhkhlQ/TrCE_-pDqBI/AWg/Zc4-2_ZBAUI/s1600/facebook.jpg


 On 2/18/2014 12:23 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote:

 Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you 
want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to 
say he stalks more than anybody else here. 
 --- WillyTex punditster@... wrote:
 
  By stalking, Barry probably means monitoring all his messages posted to 
  FFL 24 x 7 from a home office by someone who is obsessed with correcting and 
  commenting on his every word and every sentence. I'm convinced that someone, 
  maybe more than one person, is monitoring all my posts to FFL. I came over 
  here to Yahoo Groups from Google Groups way before Barry or Judy - why would 
  they be monitoring all my posts more than anybody else here? Go figure.

 



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

 Salyavin, I actually find these questions quite profound, worth mulling over, 
etc. I also like your question about what is my karma bouncing off of but won't 
address that here and now.
 

 A good mull does one good I think. 
 

 Anyway, when I think about my belief in a supreme existence, I realize what it 
does for me is create a possibility of a unity underlying all the separate 
existences I know via my senses. That FEELS right to me even though I can't 
prove it.

 

 Sounds like enlightenment is coming to FFL!
 
 
 On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:45 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
   So basically what you are saying is that the early gods that man invented 
turned out to be too easily disposed of intellectually, so everyone is going 
out of their minds to make him as oblique and impenetrable as possible yet 
still keep him existing in some way. I'm a lot more interested in why the god 
meme stays relevant. What does it do for you? Or perhaps, what does the 
universe lack without whatever powers you are giving this supreme being?
 

 


 


 












[FairfieldLife] Re: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread jedi_spock

 The so-called paradox of freedom is the argument that 
freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control 
must lead to very great restraint, since it makes the bully 
free to enslave the meek. The idea is, in a slightly 
different form, and with very different tendency, clearly 
expressed in Plato.

Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited 
tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we 
extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, 
if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against 
the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be 
destroyed, and tolerance with them. 

In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we 
should always suppress the utterance of intolerant 
philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational 
argument and keep them in check by public opinion, 
suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim 
the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for 
it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us 
on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing 
all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to 
rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them 
to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.

We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the 
right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that 
any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the 
law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and 
persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should 
consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the 
revival of the slave trade, as criminal. 

We must plan for freedom, and not only for security, if for 
no other reason than only freedom can make security more 
secure.

.. the attempt to make heaven on earth invariably produces 
hell. It leads to intolerance. It leads to religious wars, 
and to the saving of souls through the inquisition. And it 
is, I believe, based on a complete misunderstanding of our 
moral duties. It is our duty to help those who need help; 
but it cannot be our duty to make others happy, since this 
does not depend on us, and since it would only too often 
mean intruding on the privacy of those towards whom we have 
such amiable intentions. 

The open society is one in which men have learned to be to 
some extent critical of taboos, and to base decisions on the 
authority of their own intelligence.

~ Karl Popper

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Popper 
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Popper

 --- John jr_esq@... wrote:
 
  Salyavin,  

  Here in the US, the people are free to believe in any religion or ideas they 
  want just as long as they don't harm others in the process.  The founding 
  fathers of this country were wise in including this freedom as part of the 
  Constitution.  After seeing the religious persecutions in Europe at the 
  time, they wisely created a government that was separate from religion or 
  ideologies.
  

  Their ideas are still applicable today.  We see the destruction that happens 
  when the Islamists in the Arab countries attempt to impose their wills on 
  those who believe otherwise.  In the long run, there may be a world war 
  caused by religious feuds in the Middle East that is equivalent to the 
  biblical Armageddon.  And, there may be some Americans who would secretly or 
  tacitly allow this to happen in the hope of realizing the Rapture.
  

  But I do believe that the creationists here in the US or elsewhere are 
  wrong.  They fail to understand that the Bible is not a scientific treatise 
  that answers the questions relating to the Big Bang and the evolution of 
  life here on earth or other planets in the universe.  The Bible should be 
  understood as a testament of faith among the Hebrews and the subsequent 
  Christian religion and denominations.
   

 





Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Share Long

Sounds like enlightenment is coming to FFL!
Duck!




On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:54 PM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:
 
  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Salyavin, I actually find these questions quite profound, worth mulling over, 
etc. I also like your question about what is my karma bouncing off of but won't 
address that here and now.

A good mull does one good I think. 

Anyway, when I think about my belief in a supreme existence, I realize what it 
does for me is create a possibility of a unity underlying all the separate 
existences I know via my senses. That FEELS right to me even though I can't 
prove it.


Sounds like enlightenment is coming to FFL!



On Tuesday, February 18, 2014 9:45 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:

 
So basically what you are saying is that the early gods that man invented 
turned out to be too easily disposed of intellectually, so everyone is going 
out of their minds to make him as oblique and impenetrable as possible yet 
still keep him existing in some way. I'm a lot more interested in why the god 
meme stays relevant. What does it do for you? Or perhaps, what does the 
universe lack without whatever powers you are giving this supreme being?






Re: [FairfieldLife] Why Can't Hinduism Rid Itself of Fake Gurus?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Sometimes the article I might post here is just an article and has nothing to 
do with my former TM experience, Willy-Tex. I thought since many here on FFL 
have had a passing interest in that which the Hindu hath wrought, they might 
find it of interest.

On Tue, 2/18/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Why Can't Hinduism Rid Itself of Fake Gurus?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 7:44 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   On 2/18/2014 10:40 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 
  ...a fundamental misunderstanding of the mind of its
 adherents: They 
 
  are not gullible fools. They take a calculated risk
 that they 
 
  intuitively feel is worth the spiritual payoff. Going
 down the wrong 
 
  mystical path is an unavoidable hazard of their
 religion that they 
 
  knowingly accept. They are no more blind or blinkered
 than lovers 
 
  willing to repeatedly risk heartbreak to find a soul
 mate.
 
  
 
 So, you took a calculated risk by going to work for a
 religious school 
 
 in order to learn how to meditate for world peace, but you
 didn't get 
 
 the payoff. Maybe you went down the wrong mystical path
 because you were 
 
 blind and blinkered thinking you could find heaven on earth.
 Thank God, 
 
 now you've come to your senses and you're back down
 to earth! You have 
 
 the support of TM-Free and your own computer-repair business
 working out 
 
 of your garage. Now that's better!
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread anartaxius
Maybe not.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:
 Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you 
want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to 
say he stalks more than anybody else here. 
 

 Judy has made 22,444 posts
 Barry has made 21,209 posts
 

 Percentage frequency of certain words in these posts:
 

 
 Judy Barry no 84.77% 82.14% wrong 13.24% 11.16% liar 2.81% 1.77% hypocrite 
0.83% 0.40% deceptive 0.67% 0.13% 



[FairfieldLife] Avert the danger that has already come?

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
Got this in the post today. Bless them, but I can't help thinking it's a missed 
opportunity. The purpose of jyotish and yagya is to predict and avert dangers, 
not get a yagya together after it's stopped raining and half the country is 
underwater. Doh!  

 Still, a bit of affluence will be most welcome I'm sure...
 
 National Maharishi Yagyas sponsored by the United Kingdom
from February 18th to February 28th 2014
  
 Special Yagya to Avert Natural Disaster
  
 
 
 National Maharishi Yagyas for the United Kingdom.
 Dear Governors, Sidhas, and Meditators, 
  
 We are very happy to announce that as from February 18th the Maharishi Vedic 
Pandits are performing two National Maharishi Yagyas for the United Kingdom. 
  
 Because of the severe flooding and very high winds over the past weeks which 
have caused such devastation, we have organised a National Yagya to avert 
natural disaster. We would like to organise another of these Yagyas from March 
5th to 15th, and everyone is warmly invited to donate towards this. 
  
  The full purposes of these National Yagyas are:
 to promote affluence for the United Kingdom. to help avert natural disaster in 
the United Kingdom These Yagyas are being performed from February 18th to 
February 28th, and extend over February 27th, the very auspicious Vedic day of 
Mahashivaratri.
  
 The National Yagyas are being sponsored by the Governors, Sidhas and 
Meditators of the United Kingdom, and we are acknowledged as such in the Yagya. 
 
   
 During the time of these National Yagyas, anyone who wishes to do so is 
welcome to follow the Maharishi Yagya guidelines.  Please contact your local 
centre for these.


  
 We have been able to organise these and previous Yagyas thanks to the kind 
donations of our very generous donors. The next set of National Maharishi 
Yagyas will be performed from March 5th to March 15th, and if anyone would like 
to make a donation towards a Yagya during this time period, then the details of 
how to do so are shown below. 
  
 National Maharishi Yagyas are a great blessing for everyone and for the 
country as a whole.  We would like to warmly thank everyone who has been 
contributing to the Maharishi Vedic Pandit project and to the National 
Maharishi Yagyas recently and over the longer term. Your donations are so 
appreciated, and our collective contribution enables us all to participate in 
these beautiful Yagyas, and to enjoy their benefits.  
  
 Again, a very big thank you to everyone who is donating.
  
 With all best wishes for a wonderful year in Maharishi's 7th Year of 
Invincibility - Global Raam Raj.
  
 Jai Guru Dev   













 

 





[FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the Day,

2014-02-18 Thread dhamiltony2k5
“Today, with the discovery that within every brain physiology are tremendous 
powers, the world today is different than the world of yesterday. All those 
powers that are administering the individual life are those powers which 
together are administering the whole universe. That higher power can be 
enlivened in the brains of people in every nation, and this will free the life 
of every country from suffering, problems, and failures. Just free it and free 
it and free it. For this, we have Maharishi Open University. It will open the 
treasures of bliss, happiness, and energy that are there inside of everyone.” 
-Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, July 9, 1998, Guru Purnima 
 Nablusoss1008 writes:
 “The important thing is this: to be able, at any moment, to sacrifice what we 
are for what we could become” - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi -
 

 we  as individuals and we the peoples, humanity. When humanity collectively 
(more or less)  are willing to sacrifice our past for what we can become, then 
we stand at an important threshold; The Rising Sun of The Age of Enlightenment. 
This is what Masters are urging and inspiring us to become; a true humanity, 
brothers. All the Saints, the messengers of Godhead throughout recorded history 
gave voice to the same thing. Buddha, Maharishi, Jesus, Mohammad - same thing, 
same message.





Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread anartaxius
I arrived back late last night and read no posts except that one I responded 
to. I derived my material principally from the Wikipedia article, but what I 
asked you was what *you* thought classical theism was that resulted in your 
rejection what I presumed it was, not what someone else thought it was. So you 
still have not supplied a response. 

 All I am asking is what you think is wrong with the phrase which you specified 
negatively below, what is the correction you would supply?:
 

 An/the absolutely metaphysically ultimate being is not how classical theism 
characterizes God. ---Judy Stein

 

 

 
 











[FairfieldLife] RE: Avert the danger that has already come?

2014-02-18 Thread anartaxius
I think it would be more useful to do a yagya that would ameliorate the damage 
that have already occurred, and that would show evidence of efficacy, rather 
than averting a danger that has not been predicted and therefore can never be 
shown that it was averted. It just seems that dangers follow yagyas no matter 
what they are for, so why bother with them? Sucker bait.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:

 Got this in the post today. Bless them, but I can't help thinking it's a 
missed opportunity. The purpose of jyotish and yagya is to predict and avert 
dangers, not get a yagya together after it's stopped raining and half the 
country is underwater. Doh!  

 Still, a bit of affluence will be most welcome I'm sure...
 
 National Maharishi Yagyas sponsored by the United Kingdom
from February 18th to February 28th 2014
  
 Special Yagya to Avert Natural Disaster
  
 
 
 National Maharishi Yagyas for the United Kingdom.
 Dear Governors, Sidhas, and Meditators, 
  
 We are very happy to announce that as from February 18th the Maharishi Vedic 
Pandits are performing two National Maharishi Yagyas for the United Kingdom. 
  
 Because of the severe flooding and very high winds over the past weeks which 
have caused such devastation, we have organised a National Yagya to avert 
natural disaster. We would like to organise another of these Yagyas from March 
5th to 15th, and everyone is warmly invited to donate towards this. 
  
  The full purposes of these National Yagyas are:
 to promote affluence for the United Kingdom. to help avert natural disaster in 
the United Kingdom These Yagyas are being performed from February 18th to 
February 28th, and extend over February 27th, the very auspicious Vedic day of 
Mahashivaratri.
  
 The National Yagyas are being sponsored by the Governors, Sidhas and 
Meditators of the United Kingdom, and we are acknowledged as such in the Yagya. 
 
   
 During the time of these National Yagyas, anyone who wishes to do so is 
welcome to follow the Maharishi Yagya guidelines.  Please contact your local 
centre for these.


  
 We have been able to organise these and previous Yagyas thanks to the kind 
donations of our very generous donors. The next set of National Maharishi 
Yagyas will be performed from March 5th to March 15th, and if anyone would like 
to make a donation towards a Yagya during this time period, then the details of 
how to do so are shown below. 
  
 National Maharishi Yagyas are a great blessing for everyone and for the 
country as a whole.  We would like to warmly thank everyone who has been 
contributing to the Maharishi Vedic Pandit project and to the National 
Maharishi Yagyas recently and over the longer term. Your donations are so 
appreciated, and our collective contribution enables us all to participate in 
these beautiful Yagyas, and to enjoy their benefits.  
  
 Again, a very big thank you to everyone who is donating.
  
 With all best wishes for a wonderful year in Maharishi's 7th Year of 
Invincibility - Global Raam Raj.
  
 Jai Guru Dev   













 

 







Re: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger that has already come?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
THey love this kind of crap cause they can ask for heaps more money - and if 
their jyotish worked, why didn't they predict the rains and do a jyotish/yagya 
rain dance in reverse to avert the danger, before it arises! I wish I could 
find a copy of that old song - it was my favorite to mock even in my old TM 
junkie days.

On Tue, 2/18/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger that has already come?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 8:18 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Got this in the
 post today. Bless them, but I can't help thinking
 it's a missed opportunity. The purpose of jyotish and
 yagya is to predict
 and avert dangers, not get a yagya together after it's
 stopped raining and half the country is underwater.
 Doh! 
 Still, a bit of affluence will be
 most welcome I'm sure...
 National Maharishi Yagyas
 sponsored by the United Kingdom
 from February 18th to February 28th 2014 Special Yagya to Avert
 Natural Disaster 
  National Maharishi Yagyas
 for the United Kingdom.Dear
 Governors, Sidhas, and
 Meditators,  We are very happy to announce that
 as from February 18th the Maharishi Vedic Pandits are
 performing two National Maharishi Yagyas for the United
 Kingdom.  Because
 of the severe flooding and very high winds over the past
 weeks which have caused such devastation, we have organised
 a National Yagya to avert natural disaster. We would like to
 organise another of these Yagyas from March 5th to 15th, and
 everyone is warmly invited to donate towards
 this.   The full purposes of these
 National Yagyas are:to promote affluence
 for the United Kingdom.to help avert natural
 disaster in the United
 KingdomThese Yagyas are being
 performed from February 18th to February 28th, and extend
 over February 27th, the very auspicious Vedic day of
 Mahashivaratri. The National Yagyas are
 being sponsored by the Governors, Sidhas and Meditators of
 the United Kingdom, and we are acknowledged as such in the
 Yagya.        
        During the time of these National
 Yagyas, anyone who wishes to do so is welcome to follow the
 Maharishi Yagya guidelines.  Please contact your local
 centre for
 these. We have been able to organise these
 and previous Yagyas thanks to the kind donations of our very
 generous donors. The next set of National Maharishi Yagyas
 will be performed from March 5th to March
 15th, and if anyone would like to make a
 donation towards a Yagya during this time period, then the
 details of how to do so are shown
 below.  National Maharishi Yagyas are a
 great blessing for everyone and for the country as a whole.
  We would like to warmly thank everyone who has been
 contributing to the Maharishi Vedic Pandit project and to
 the National Maharishi Yagyas recently and over the longer
 term. Your donations are so appreciated, and our collective
 contribution enables us all to participate in these
 beautiful Yagyas, and to enjoy their benefits.
   Again, a very big thank you to
 everyone who is
 donating. With all best wishes for a wonderful
 year in Maharishi's 7th Year of Invincibility - Global
 Raam Raj. Jai Guru Dev
   
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


[FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Let me say it another way, since Xeno seems to have had a little trouble 
reading it the first time: 

 Nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you want to 
misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to say he 
stalks more than anybody else here.
 

 Plus which, as Xeno knows perfectly well, word-counting via Yahoo Advanced 
Search doesn't tell you how many times a word was used in original posts, so it 
can't be used the way he's pretending to use (th way Barry does) it to prove 
something. And of course a selection of five words doesn't tell you anything 
about negativity quotient either.
 

 Xeno is definitely picking up the tricks of the stalking trade from Barry. 
Frauds of a feather flock together.
 

 So much for the enlightened guru/grandfather figure/spiritual teacher image 
he's been trying to project. As I told him not long ago, he needs to tend to 
his own buttons before he sets himself up to advise anyone else on the 
importance of not letting them be pushed.
 

   Maybe not.
 

 Of course, nobody is stalking Barry. That's a misuse of the term. But if you 
want to misuse it to mean comment negatively, as he does, then you have to 
say he stalks more than anybody else here. 

 Judy has made 22,444 posts
 Barry has made 21,209 posts
 

 Percentage frequency of certain words in these posts:
 

 
 Judy Barry no 84.77% 82.14% wrong 13.24% 11.16% liar 2.81% 1.77% hypocrite 
0.83% 0.40% deceptive 0.67% 0.13% 







Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Xeno's questions are once again disingenuous. I think classical theism is what 
Feser says in his posts. That's, you know, why I posted them here, along with 
additional links. Nor have I ever seen any other classical theist describe it 
differently. In any case, of course it isn't a matter of what I think 
classical theism is. It's very well established what it is. 

 Xeno's question about why his statement is wrong is also disingenuous if he's 
been reading my posts, and if he read Feser's post.
 

 Xeno might also want to check with his mentor Barry concerning Wikipedia's 
reliability.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote:

 I arrived back late last night and read no posts except that one I responded 
to. I derived my material principally from the Wikipedia article, but what I 
asked you was what *you* thought classical theism was that resulted in your 
rejection what I presumed it was, not what someone else thought it was. So you 
still have not supplied a response. 

 All I am asking is what you think is wrong with the phrase which you specified 
negatively below, what is the correction you would supply?:
 

 An/the absolutely metaphysically ultimate being is not how classical theism 
characterizes God. ---Judy Stein

 

 

 
 













Re: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger that has already come?

2014-02-18 Thread salyavin808
They used to make regular pleas for money for yagyas because jyotishees had 
predicted trouble ahead from bad planetary influences. I used to tell anyone 
who would listen (not many to be honest) NOT to donate to the yagya, I reasoned 
that no prayer to the gods for intervention might be a good test of jyotish, if 
something terrible happened we'd have a positive result!   Sort of, you know 
what I mean 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 THey love this kind of crap cause they can ask for heaps more money - and if 
their jyotish worked, why didn't they predict the rains and do a jyotish/yagya 
rain dance in reverse to avert the danger, before it arises! I wish I could 
find a copy of that old song - it was my favorite to mock even in my old TM 
junkie days.
 
 On Tue, 2/18/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger that has already come?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 8:18 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Got this in the
 post today. Bless them, but I can't help thinking
 it's a missed opportunity. The purpose of jyotish and
 yagya is to predict
 and avert dangers, not get a yagya together after it's
 stopped raining and half the country is underwater.
 Doh! 
 Still, a bit of affluence will be
 most welcome I'm sure...
 National Maharishi Yagyas
 sponsored by the United Kingdom
 from February 18th to February 28th 2014 Special Yagya to Avert
 Natural Disaster 
  National Maharishi Yagyas
 for the United Kingdom.Dear
 Governors, Sidhas, and
 Meditators,  We are very happy to announce that
 as from February 18th the Maharishi Vedic Pandits are
 performing two National Maharishi Yagyas for the United
 Kingdom.  Because
 of the severe flooding and very high winds over the past
 weeks which have caused such devastation, we have organised
 a National Yagya to avert natural disaster. We would like to
 organise another of these Yagyas from March 5th to 15th, and
 everyone is warmly invited to donate towards
 this.   The full purposes of these
 National Yagyas are:to promote affluence
 for the United Kingdom.to help avert natural
 disaster in the United
 KingdomThese Yagyas are being
 performed from February 18th to February 28th, and extend
 over February 27th, the very auspicious Vedic day of
 Mahashivaratri. The National Yagyas are
 being sponsored by the Governors, Sidhas and Meditators of
 the United Kingdom, and we are acknowledged as such in the
 Yagya.
During the time of these National
 Yagyas, anyone who wishes to do so is welcome to follow the
 Maharishi Yagya guidelines.  Please contact your local
 centre for
 these. We have been able to organise these
 and previous Yagyas thanks to the kind donations of our very
 generous donors. The next set of National Maharishi Yagyas
 will be performed from March 5th to March
 15th, and if anyone would like to make a
 donation towards a Yagya during this time period, then the
 details of how to do so are shown
 below.  National Maharishi Yagyas are a
 great blessing for everyone and for the country as a whole.
  We would like to warmly thank everyone who has been
 contributing to the Maharishi Vedic Pandit project and to
 the National Maharishi Yagyas recently and over the longer
 term. Your donations are so appreciated, and our collective
 contribution enables us all to participate in these
 beautiful Yagyas, and to enjoy their benefits.
   Again, a very big thank you to
 everyone who is
 donating. With all best wishes for a wonderful
 year in Maharishi's 7th Year of Invincibility - Global
 Raam Raj. Jai Guru Dev





Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread anartaxius
The neo search function does not work very well, I could not find the material 
you mentioned. Can you give me the post number? There was no post I could find 
that credited Fesler directly in the past few days. Name the post number that 
has Fesler quotes that describe classical theism.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Some Americans Believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
Yes, of course. Haven't seen her for a couple of years, lowly sinner that I 
am.:-)
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote:

 Doc, 

 Your daughter-in-law must think you're misguided and must be saved.  :)




Re: [FairfieldLife] 'thot'

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
Yes, exactly! Not a big surprise - just play it repeatedly. Of course it comes 
from inside me, so I will sometimes listen to a song of mine thirty or forty 
times, to truly understand it. Fade The Cloth!!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 Man post some more of that - playing that really amped up the bliss I am 
currently perceiving (no joke, it did!)
 
 On Tue, 2/18/14, doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... 
mailto:doctordumbass@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] 'thot'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2014, 6:10 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 My latest - surfing the line between music and
 thinking. Two minutes:
 https://app.box.com/s/1umn41y4wd8vmgif2w4u 
https://app.box.com/s/1umn41y4wd8vmgif2w4u
 copyright Temple Dog 2014 



[FairfieldLife] RE: An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
Um...right. From each angle it presents another facet of its personality. I 
wish I didn't sound so crazy talking about this - it is a very cool object to 
have discovered - Would love to take it home for a front yard ornament.

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 4:00 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:

It's very well established what it is.


It may be very well established but let's review what we know about theism:

Monotheism, the belief in the existence of one transcendent God, is the 
classical use of the word theism in Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. 
Polytheism is the belief that there is more than one god, for example in 
Hindu, Egyptian, and Greek religions. First came polytheism, then can 
monotheism, and then came deism - the belief in reason and observation 
to determine the existence of God the Creator.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 4:00 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
Xeno might also want to check with his mentor Barry concerning 
Wikipedia's reliability.


We should probably also check the dictionary.

the·ism:

belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically :  belief in the 
existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and 
the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world .


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism


Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 3:49 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:

Let me say it another way


Let me say it another way: Maybe by stalking Barry means monitoring 
his messages on FFL. Internet stalking is defined as unwanted or 
obsessive attention by an individual or group toward another person. So, 
I'd say that if Judy is monitoring 24 x 7 every single message Barry 
posts to FFL and posting corrections and comments, then I'd say Judy is 
probably monitoring Barry. But, the real question is, why did Judy and 
Barry come over here from Google Groups to stalk and monitor me? Go figure.


Re: [FairfieldLife] Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread doctordumbass
...from someone calling himself Bob wanting to know what kind of shampoo I 
use n my hair. For the record, I use Dr. Bronner's, if anyone else is 
interested. Go figure.

Guilty. Hmmm, Rita told me you used Head and Shoulders, and then asked me for 
my phone number. Go figure...


[FairfieldLife] Post Count Wed 19-Feb-14 00:15:03 UTC

2014-02-18 Thread FFL PostCount
Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 02/15/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 02/22/14 00:00:00
513 messages as of (UTC) 02/18/14 23:57:44

 70 authfriend
 66 salyavin808 
 45 Richard J. Williams 
 44 awoelflebater
 30 Michael Jackson 
 27 doctordumbass
 27 Share Long 
 23 nablusoss1008 
 22 dhamiltony2k5
 20 anartaxius
 19 steve.sundur
 17 jedi_spock
 15 TurquoiseBee 
 14 Pundit Sir 
 13 Bhairitu 
  9 turquoiseb
  9 s3raphita
  9 jr_esq
  6 jchwelch
  5 emptybill
  5 emilymaenot
  5 cardemaister
  4 noozguru
  4 j_alexander_stanley
  2 Mike Dixon 
  1 Paulo Barbosa 
  1 Jason 
  1 Duveyoung 
Posters: 28
Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times
=
Daylight Saving Time (Summer):
US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM
Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM
Standard Time (Winter):
US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM
Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM
For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread authfriend
Feser's last name doesn't appear in the post except in the links, which use his 
full name edwardfeser (not Fesler). 

 The neo search function does not work very well, I could not find the material 
you mentioned. Can you give me the post number? There was no post I could find 
that credited Fesler directly in the past few days. Name the post number that 
has Fesler quotes that describe classical theism.


[FairfieldLife] Avert the danger, before it arises!

2014-02-18 Thread dhamiltony2k5
Avert the danger before it arises!
 
 
 Every nation wants to be invincible
 thirsting for underlying principle
 now we know the way
 dear Maharishi says: 
 
Avert the danger before it arises

 long before the army mobilizes.
 In raising world consciousness 
 world purity will grow
 no enemy will be born
 only happiness will grow
 ringing the bell of invincibility.
 

 mjackson74 writes:
 I wish I could find a copy of that old song - it was my favorite 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Internet TV review: House Of Cards

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
The funny thing was that I think people thought I was drunk, but I hadn't had 
anything to drink. But in order to save face, I did feel compelled to mention 
that fact to one or two people who were close by. 

 I also don't recall that anyone inquired about my well being.
 

 I mean here is a boat full of people on a Saturday night around 10:30, 
relaxing, coming back from having a nice dinner, and then there is some yahoo 
barfing off the side of the boat!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Reminds me of the time I was in Baltimore for a business convention and took a 
boat ride to the area where they had all the restaurants.  I had dinner at the 
place known for it's crap cakes, and sort of stuffed myself.  After dinner for 
some reason, I decided I wanted a cigar, so stopped into a tobacco store and 
got one, or maybe it was two. 

 Anyway, I walked around some smoking my cigars and finally got on the loaded 
boat to get to the place we started, and once on the boat I started to get 
light headed.  I said to myself, God, please don't let me throw up, please 
don't let me throw up.  But shortly thereafter I had to lean off the side of 
the board with a very loud throw up.
 

 Now, that was embarrassing!
 

 I guess God didn't come through for me in that instance. (-:
 

 I hope you went for distance and not style!
 

 

 

 

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 The first pizza joint I encountered was in HK, and the pizza guy only spoke 
Italian, in Hong Kong...Their pizza was really good, baked in a real pizza 
oven, so it took just minutes. The last time I was there, was with a buddy 
visiting from the Navy, on RR from Vietnam (1971-ish), and we smoked an 
authentic Thai Stick, and then got hungry - what a shocker. I recall trying to 
get up from the table, after eating pizza, and drinking Chianti, for what 
seemed like hours, and passing out very slowly and gracefully, onto my back, on 
 the cool stone floor, and then coming to, several seconds later, just like in 
the movies, with a bunch of faces staring down at me, quizzically. lol - I made 
it outside, and the fresh air revived me after awhile. Obviously, I never 
returned.:-)
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Parma Pizza.  Does anyone else remember Parma Pizza?  It was a frozen pizza, 
and I remember cutting open the little frozen plastic packet that contained the 
tomato sauce, and then the cheese.  Very fine indeed.  In fact with my favorite 
pizza now, it is the tomato sauce that makes it.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Interesting about the minimalist pizzas, since a lot of the Italian ones are 
like that - not the triple cheese and meat with pineapple monsters you 
encounter here. Garlic in the crust definitely rocks.
Even though it has been 40 years since I lived abroad, I am always a little 
surprised at how everything, pizza included, has gone global. There was a small 
amount of that, growing up - like seeing a Coca-Cola sign out in the middle of 
nowhere, on a tropical island, or the single outpost of Wimpys (British 
burger chain) in Hong Kong, that was unfortunately, inedible - not a lot of 
cattle ranching going on in Hong Kong.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 The best pizza in town (at least home-delivery pizza) is from a place 
ironically named New York Pizza. It's more thick crust than thin crust, and 
they sprinkle the crust liberally with garlic so it's much tastier than the 
thin, limp pizzas you get in other places here in Leiden. In general, Europeans 
tend to go for minimalist pizza, with only a couple of toppings, but this 
chain also allows you to build your own and create truly monumental one-dish 
meals. 

 

 And yes, it was fun. Many of my friends are ex-pats and all are...uh...shall 
we say...critical of the US, so seeing its politicians portrayed as they 
probably are in real life was right up their alley. Still, there were a few 
moments that no one was prepared for, such as the end of episode 1 of this new 
season. *Nobody* saw that coming.  

 

 From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 3:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Internet TV review: House Of Cards
 
 
   Oops - yeah, I fucked up on that one -- Much of the time, when you do not 
set the stage for your viewing pleasure, it sounds like you are holed up in 
your room, in front of the tube. But obviously, not always. Sounds like a great 
time!! Can the Dutch make a decent pizza - is it thin crust, or deep dish?


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Sounds to me as if you've never figured out that you can watch a TV series in 
the company of other people, in my case half a dozen friends who also liked the 
first season 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
Sure, thanks for elaborating.  Although I don't have any recall experiences of 
a previous existence, I think we all have spent some time trying to come to 
some understanding of what it all means
 

 Now, in my cosmology, I can't make sense of things without introducing the 
tenants of karma and reincarnation.  Having said that, it's not anything I 
think about regularly, at least anymore.
 

 Now, sal is on record here that he is baffled by karma - how it might work etc.
 

 Well, hell yea, I'm baffled too.
 

 But here is a bottom line for me.  Once you open yourself that we are not born 
as blank slate. Once you you open yourself to the notion of consciousness 
existing after physical death, then you might have to adjust your beliefs as to 
their being some sort of  higher power who has a hand in things.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...
  
  I mean, I guess it could boil down to one question.  
 
 If there is consciousness after physical death, why?

 Why not? 

I differ with Curtis and others God-skeptics here in that I don't necessarily 
see a one-to-one mapping between brain chemistry and consciousness. I've had 
too many OOTB experiences and remembrances of time spent in the Bardo between 
death and life to not place some credence in them. 

True, they could all be illusions, mere brain farts that I am interpreting as 
memories, but they are just as strong and just as real as any other memories 
I've ever formed, so I give them the same weight. I've also studied enough 
Tibetan Buddhism to be comfortable with its descriptions of life after death, 
and had them resonate so deeply with my own memories that I pay that belief 
system heed.

Do I think about this stuff much? No way. It's just a baseline set of 
assumptions that I assume...for now. I certainly don't debate them or try to 
convince others to assume the same things. As I've said many times before, I 
don't see the percentage in dwelling on the subject too much. I've got my own 
version of Pascal's Wager, and it keeps me feeling fine and dandy, and focusing 
on life, not death. 

Pascal's Wager? Classic God/No God argument. I never liked it because it always 
struck me as entirely fear-based, but here goes. As I remember it, ole' Blaise 
came up with his strongest argument for believing in God, and phrased it in 
terms of a bet, a wager. You either bet that God exists, or you bet that he 
doesn't. This leads to four possible outcomes. If you bet that God doesn't 
exist and he doesn't...no harm, no foul. If you bet that he does exist and he 
doesn't...again no harm, no foul. If you bet that God does exist and he does, 
you win. If you bet that God doesn't exist and he doesbt...you lose. 
Especially if you believe in sin and punishment and a vengeful God and all 
that. Pascal figured that the safest bet was to wager that God exists. 

My wager is more like this, because I don't believe in any of that sin and 
vengeful God crap. If I believe in life after death and there is some, then I 
will be pleased by that and I win. If I believe that there is life after death 
and there is none, and everything just goes black, there will be no I present 
to even be disappointed, so again I win. 

So I'll stick with my win-win baseline set of assumptions for now. :-)

 

 From: steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...
 
 
   I mean, I guess it could boil down to one question.  
 

 If there is consciousness after physical death, why?

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
well, it is an interesting point you make Ann.  I do think that the atheists, 
in general like keeping the discussion on a more abstract, highly philosophical 
track. 

 I mean, if I understand it correctly, an atheist would have to believe that we 
are born as a blank slate.  And that when we die, it is fade to black
 

 That has so many implications that fly in the face of everyday experience, me 
thinks.
 

 Twins separated at birth, growing up in different environments.  How could 
they in any way develop similarities as they are know to do.
 

 Or all the strange accounts of children recalling past lives and verifiable 
events.
 

 I mean, these things happen all the time, and I don't think the atheist has 
any sensible explanation for them, except, there is so much we don't know 
about brain functioning or genetics
 

 Anyway, that's my rant.
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Well, I think once you open the door to the possibility that consciousness may 
continue after physical death you open the door to the possibility that there 
is an agency at work behind the scenes organizing this activity.  
 And then there's there are the many anomalies such as twins separated at 
birth, who develop similar skills, or the hundreds of examples of people 
recalling things that they have no business recalling.  And when you bring up 
these examples to atheists, you sometimes hear them play a very Godlike card 
such as, There's so much we don't know about genetics, or There's so much we 
don't know about the brain.  Sounds very much like, God works in mysteries 
ways.

 

 For the record, I am pretty clueless about God, but I do believe in a higher 
power at work here.
 

 I do too. And I find it so strange when people say I want proof because it 
is everywhere. There is nothing but proof from the oatmeal you cook for 
breakfast to the airplane that flies. It is just so strange that everyone 
doesn't see that. It is like being in a garden and the person next to you asks 
where the flowers are.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote:

 Good questions, especially in an argument started by and perpetuated by 
someone who doesn't even have the balls to say what she believes. She's arguing 
*literally* just for the sake of arguing. Go figure. 

As for life after death, you didn't ask me but I don't see that this has 
anything to do with God or the belief or non-belief in one. I don't believe in 
a God, but I suspect (based on subjective experience of fairly dynamic waking 
state past-life flashbacks) that consciousness may continue after physical 
death. But that has nothing whatsoever IMO to do with either the existence of a 
God or the existence of any kind of morality or fairness as you imply with 
your notions about karma. 

I think that fairness is a human-invented concept that does not exist in 
nature, and never has. It's a myth that people think up so that they won't be 
so frightened of the idea of chaos and indeterminancy. That's why they invent 
the myth of God too IMO, but one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with 
the other. 

Anyway, as for the Great Mystery that we call death, I pass along an 
interesting song that will probably not mean anything to anyone here who isn't 
a fan of the Canadian TV show Lost Girl. This song (in its entirety) was used 
to close the last show of the season, in which one of everyone's favorite 
characters gets to explore the Great Mystery, and IMO it was brilliantly 
chosen, because all over Canada and North America fans were weeping to see her 
go. But as to WHERE she's going, that's still a Great Mystery, as much in 
fiction as in real life. No problemo...we'll all find out soon enough 
ourselves. 
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2fCcggNkTs


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 Does it advance the discussion in anyway to ask what you believe, say in 
regards to what happens when you die, or when anyone dies?  Is it the atheist 
position that it's lights out. Options - expire worthless 

 Now, I know one might say, I have no evidence that, that's not the case, but 
I'd like to know what you believe.
 

 My analysis compels me to believe that there is an element of karma, and that 
karma carries over from one existence to the next, and the next.  To use a oft 
cited example, the person who is a mass murderer, just merges back into 
nothingness upon death?  No consequences?  So people get away with murder?  Or 
no kudos for a generous life?  No second chance for a life cut down after one 
or two years?
 

 Step away from the theory for a moment and tell us, if you care to, what you 
believe in this regard.
 




 















Re: [FairfieldLife] Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread steve.sundur
I was shocked to discover a few months ago that Target sells Dr. B's.  On my 
second bottle. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote:

 On 2/18/2014 8:53 AM, emptybill@... mailto:emptybill@... wrote:

 pycho-Ravi, has sent another unsolicited message to my wife's facebook page 
 My wife Rita, who works at Whole Foods in the vitamin section, said she got a 
call on the company phone during business hours from someone calling himself 
Bob wanting to know what kind of shampoo I use n my hair. For the record, I 
use Dr. Bronner's, if anyone else is interested. Go figure.
 
 http://www.drbronner.com/ http://www.drbronner.com/
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Against

On Wed, 2/19/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 1:18 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Dear FFL I recently thought to
 share this with you;   So, I
 have been in meetings in this last week with both Drs. John
 Hagelin
 and Bevan Morris:  Instruction of new TM meditators is way
 up and
 growing consistently despite any bad past.  As we were long
 ago told,
 '. .the past is a lesser state
 of evolution',
 this seems could be true.  We are productively moving
 forward.  TM in
 nature now as a corporate organizational movement sect
 incorporating meditation, modern science and vedic science
 and now in its
 post-charismatic founder phase is moving manifestly forward
 again in good order.  
 
 It is going well again.  Will you come
 with us and
 move forward with us?  So, are you with us or are you against us in
 this? 
 Are you with us or are you against us moving forward?  It is
 time to
 move forward or at the least be 'silent' and get out
 of the way if
 you can't actively be helpful.  There is a great need
 for teachers of
 meditation right now in many places.  The news is quite good
 around
 TM and spiritual regeneration using meditation, modern
 science and
 vedic science together in the world.
 Yours in Revolution, 
 
 -U.S. Buck in the Dome
 One can conceive
 of gradients in spectrum of cults and sects.
 Paired data-points on Cartesian axis:  Like on one scale
 have it run
 from a low end of  immoral-sociopathic-NPDisordered then to
 highly
 transformative moral  and spiritual at the top of that
 scale.  That
 could work for sorting individuals or movement
 organizations.  On the
 other, 2nd axis have a scale of types of teachers or their
 organizations that run from just authors or lecturers, to
 sadhus,
 swamis, gurus, sat gurus, jagad gurus, saints and avatars at
 the top
 end.  X-Y axis.  Draw it and then place your person
 organization cult
 or sect vs the type of teacher or saint.  .  as a dot placed
 on the
 graph.  Knapp for instance, being in the news again here on
 FFL may
 appear to be down at the low of each scale on the graph. 
 That
 placement can change according to time and event horizon
 too.  Even
 can work to plot dynamic life-cycle of someone's
 spiritual teaching
 or organization through time.  Play with it.   
 -Buck
 
 DoctorDA writes: As far as the long time
 habit, and progression, of expanding
 one's awareness, through meditation, it has nothing to
 do with
 achieving signposts, or escaping this world, or acting like
 either an
 asshole or a saint. It is simply a means of discovering the
 full
 range of human experience, and integrating it. No robes or
 sexual
 exploitation, required.
 Graphing Data-pairs,  Charismatics and
 Spiritual 
movementshttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370787
 As Charisma:
  Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an 
individual
 personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and 
treated as
 endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional 
powers or
 qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but 
are regarded as
 of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual 
concerned is
 treated as a leader. 1
 Okay, no
 charismatic leader no cult.  It is just an
 organization.  So by more
 scholarly definition evidently your feelings around the TM
 movement
 is that TM never quite rose up to be a cult, but was/is a
 sect.   No
 charismatic leader, no cult.  It evidently was a
 movement that you were part of,-Buck
 See FFL Post 370565 for a
 discussion of the context of charisma, cults and
 
sects:https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370565
 
 salyavin808
 writes:As far as I'm concerned it
 never had a charismatic leader. Marshy's woolly,
 illogical and ignorant lecturing style always left me cold.
 Corporation is a good word for it though. As it sells both a
 product and a belief system that makes that product seem a
 lot more valuable than it actually is. Marshy's genius
 is the lectures he gave that conned everyone into thinking
 all the unified field, sci, land of the ved bollocks was an
 ultimate truth for all mankind and that he was its natural
 voice.
 awoelflebater
 writes:I'd have to agree with you about
 MMY not being the most riveting of speakers. He was a snooze
 for me but he certainly, at least, seemed like a pleasant
 enough guy but hardly profound, hardly magnetic and
 definitely not charismatic.
 TM, more
 accurately now is a [religious spiritual] sect in its
 post-charismatic leader phase.  As an organizational
 structure it is
 a corporation.  Fairly, TM is no longer a cult with a
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Against - a cult by any other name is still a cult

On Wed, 2/19/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 1:18 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Dear FFL I recently thought to
 share this with you;   So, I
 have been in meetings in this last week with both Drs. John
 Hagelin
 and Bevan Morris:  Instruction of new TM meditators is way
 up and
 growing consistently despite any bad past.  As we were long
 ago told,
 '. .the past is a lesser state
 of evolution',
 this seems could be true.  We are productively moving
 forward.  TM in
 nature now as a corporate organizational movement sect
 incorporating meditation, modern science and vedic science
 and now in its
 post-charismatic founder phase is moving manifestly forward
 again in good order.  
 
 It is going well again.  Will you come
 with us and
 move forward with us?  So, are you with us or are you against us in
 this? 
 Are you with us or are you against us moving forward?  It is
 time to
 move forward or at the least be 'silent' and get out
 of the way if
 you can't actively be helpful.  There is a great need
 for teachers of
 meditation right now in many places.  The news is quite good
 around
 TM and spiritual regeneration using meditation, modern
 science and
 vedic science together in the world.
 Yours in Revolution, 
 
 -U.S. Buck in the Dome
 One can conceive
 of gradients in spectrum of cults and sects.
 Paired data-points on Cartesian axis:  Like on one scale
 have it run
 from a low end of  immoral-sociopathic-NPDisordered then to
 highly
 transformative moral  and spiritual at the top of that
 scale.  That
 could work for sorting individuals or movement
 organizations.  On the
 other, 2nd axis have a scale of types of teachers or their
 organizations that run from just authors or lecturers, to
 sadhus,
 swamis, gurus, sat gurus, jagad gurus, saints and avatars at
 the top
 end.  X-Y axis.  Draw it and then place your person
 organization cult
 or sect vs the type of teacher or saint.  .  as a dot placed
 on the
 graph.  Knapp for instance, being in the news again here on
 FFL may
 appear to be down at the low of each scale on the graph. 
 That
 placement can change according to time and event horizon
 too.  Even
 can work to plot dynamic life-cycle of someone's
 spiritual teaching
 or organization through time.  Play with it.   
 -Buck
 
 DoctorDA writes: As far as the long time
 habit, and progression, of expanding
 one's awareness, through meditation, it has nothing to
 do with
 achieving signposts, or escaping this world, or acting like
 either an
 asshole or a saint. It is simply a means of discovering the
 full
 range of human experience, and integrating it. No robes or
 sexual
 exploitation, required.
 Graphing Data-pairs,  Charismatics and
 Spiritual 
movementshttp://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370787
 As Charisma:
  Weber, in an oft quoted passage, defined charisma as a certain quality of an 
individual
 personality, by virtue of which [s/]he is set apart from ordinary [people] and 
treated as
 endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional 
powers or
 qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but 
are regarded as
 of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual 
concerned is
 treated as a leader. 1
 Okay, no
 charismatic leader no cult.  It is just an
 organization.  So by more
 scholarly definition evidently your feelings around the TM
 movement
 is that TM never quite rose up to be a cult, but was/is a
 sect.   No
 charismatic leader, no cult.  It evidently was a
 movement that you were part of,-Buck
 See FFL Post 370565 for a
 discussion of the context of charisma, cults and
 
sects:https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/370565
 
 salyavin808
 writes:As far as I'm concerned it
 never had a charismatic leader. Marshy's woolly,
 illogical and ignorant lecturing style always left me cold.
 Corporation is a good word for it though. As it sells both a
 product and a belief system that makes that product seem a
 lot more valuable than it actually is. Marshy's genius
 is the lectures he gave that conned everyone into thinking
 all the unified field, sci, land of the ved bollocks was an
 ultimate truth for all mankind and that he was its natural
 voice.
 awoelflebater
 writes:I'd have to agree with you about
 MMY not being the most riveting of speakers. He was a snooze
 for me but he certainly, at least, seemed like a pleasant
 enough guy but hardly profound, hardly magnetic and
 definitely not charismatic.
 TM, more
 accurately now is a [religious spiritual] sect in its
 post-charismatic leader phase.  As an organizational
 structure it is
 a corporation.  

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/18/2014 7:55 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 Against - a cult by any other name is still a cult
 
Maybe it's time to review the definition of a cult:

A cult is a small group of people forming a new religious movement who 
use mind control, coercion, or brainwashing techniques in order to 
cultivate certain behaviors in members.

So how exactly, were you brainwashed or coerced into working in a school 
bakery? Go figure.






Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
Yep that's a fine description of what the TMO does these days

On Wed, 2/19/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Is TM a Cult?
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 2:09 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   On 2/18/2014 7:55 PM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 
  Against - a cult by any other name is still a cult
 
  
 
 Maybe it's time to review the definition of a cult:
 
 
 
 A cult is a small group of people forming a new religious
 movement who 
 
 use mind control, coercion, or brainwashing techniques in
 order to 
 
 cultivate certain behaviors in members.
 
 
 
 So how exactly, were you brainwashed or coerced into working
 in a school 
 
 bakery? Go figure.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger, before it arises!

2014-02-18 Thread Michael Jackson
was it Emily Levin who wrote that, or was it someone else?

On Wed, 2/19/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger, before it arises!
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 12:47 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Avert the danger before it arises!
 
 
 
 Every nation wants to be invincible
 thirsting for underlying principle
 now we know the way
 dear Maharishi says: 
 
 
 Avert the danger before
 it arises
 
  long before the army mobilizes.
  In raising world consciousness 
 
 world purity will grow
 no enemy will be born
 only happiness will grow
 ringing the bell of invincibility.
 mjackson74
 writes:I
 wish I could find a copy of that old song - it was my
 favorite 
    
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


[FairfieldLife] Empathy versus cruelty

2014-02-18 Thread s3raphita
Today I was walking past a department store when a sudden commotion caught my 
attention. A young man was being frogmarched to a waiting police car by two 
constables - obviously he was a shoplifter who hadn't been as careful as he 
should have been. But what appalled me was that everyone around me - fellow 
pedestrians, people in coffee shops, those waiting at the bus stop - were 
almost universally smiling and exchanging knowing glances. I've noticed that 
reaction countless times in similar situations. But me: I just felt depressed. 
Here was a youth, perhaps on his way to prison. His mum and dad and sisters, 
his other relatives and his friends would be shocked and saddened by the news 
of his arrest. What is there to smile about for God's sake? It's a reaction 
I've noticed about other misfortunes. People see drug addicts in the final 
stages of degradation and judge these unfortunates as being losers. I see the 
same people and wonder what sexual or physical abuse they suffered as children 
- or maybe as adults they encountered some other misfortune, perhaps having to 
see a loved one die slowly and painfully of cancer - and think to myself how 
lucky I am that I have never had to cope with such trauma. So is Seraphita a 
saint? Not bloody likely. I am as selfish, as self-centred, as narrowly 
concerned with my own well-being as anyone. The difference seems to be an 
ability to enter imaginatively into the suffering of others and appreciate what 
a raw deal they had. Of course, some shop-lifters and drug addicts are complete 
saddos and probably need a kick up the arse and told to get a grip. But many 
will have just been unlucky - and luck plays a dominant role in all our lives. 
Imagination is often dismissed as idle fancy but really it is a faculty in 
which we grasp real aspects of the world - just like perception and reason. But 
perhaps another cause for people to enjoy the misfortunes of others - complete 
strangers at that - is that they are unhappy (The mass of men lead lives of 
quiet desperation. - Thoreau) and seeing someone worse off than themselves 
gives them a boost. They suddenly see that their own lives could be even more 
miserable so for a brief moment they can feel complacently self-satisfied. 
 Alas - according to Nietzsche - pity is just cruelty disguised. There's a lot 
to be said for that view - just observe carefully how your friends and 
colleagues savour reports of disasters on the latest news bulletins while 
convincing themselves how compassionate they are. So what can we conclude? That 
Seraphita is a hypocrite! Heads you win; tails I lose.


[FairfieldLife] RE: Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread emptybill
There was no context to explain. Ravi decided to let my wife know he was 
thinking about her even though she doesn't know him except through my 
descriptions. Originally she had to ask me who this Ravi guy was. 
When someone you don't know writes I love you and I'm thinking of you on 
your Facebook page then I call it stalking. Perhaps, instead, you would feel 
pleased and excited and call it worship.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Avert the danger, before it arises!

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/18/2014 6:47 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Avert the danger before it arises!
 
pains 2 avoid

What is to be avoided is suffering that has not yet come. - Yoga Sutra 
2.16

It's a little easier to understand when you read the YS in context: 2:15 
- Everything is suffering for the wise man because of change, stress, 
and anxiety. 2:17 - The cause of the suffering is the super-imposition 
of the material onto the immaterial.


Re: [FairfieldLife] Ravi Yogi back at it - must need the attention

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams

On 2/18/2014 5:57 PM, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote:
Rita told me you used Head and Shoulders, and then asked me for my 
phone number.


That was the Rita at the Free Clinic - you should call them back right away!


[FairfieldLife] RE: An amazing rock

2014-02-18 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Um...right. From each angle it presents another facet of its personality. I 
wish I didn't sound so crazy talking about this - it is a very cool object to 
have discovered - Would love to take it home for a front yard ornament.
 

 Just more evidence of our cool and imaginative Creator!



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day...

2014-02-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/18/2014 6:41 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Feser's last name doesn't appear in the post except in the links, 
 which use his full name edwardfeser (not Fesler).
 
Just cut out all the double-speak - everyone knows that I'm the 
professor and the fester lives up in IA.


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