Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 5:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis snip great stuff Have a great time in Amsterdam where your free choices will be challenged by a cornucopia of delights. Can we predict which ones you will freely choose? Possibly, possibly not. I have to admit that it was a really great day, and that getting to know this lady was the most fun I've had in a long time. You know that thing where two people just make each other laugh...that happened, so no complaints from my side, whether I chose my decisions freely, or not. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 5:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living room looks like a training camp for Cirque! Plus I have had to spend some time in assisted living facilities for personal and professional reasons lately so this is an up topic for me. I am still sorting out what the positions are with regard to free will so this is my best guess. I believe you are continuing to make the intuitive case FOR free will. This is exactly why we believe in free will. We are obviously able to influence our unconscious processes through such things as exercises and this will influence our future positively. It all makes perfect sense until we look at what actually happens in the lives of the elderly. First, other than a suicidal person (and there are some in these homes but not many) there is no reason for an older person to FREELY CHOOSE to fall down and hurt themselves. Second, It seems logical that if this exercise could help them choose not to fall, they would all be doing them. Last, they don't! I have been preaching this message to my Dad for years and he buys into it even. His physical therapist preaches this message to every person in his facility. But if you talk with any therapist in a facility you will uncover their frustration that they cannot get the residents to do their exercises once they are out of his or her sight. Everyone believes this is a good idea and if the elderly could truly freely choose they would. But they cannot because their choices are not free. They are determined by a lifetime of not exercising this way. (This is a cautionary time to automate this activity now before auto pilot removes this choice.) While this is all interesting, I don't consider any of it a lack of free will. They ARE exhibiting free will by continuing to indulge in behaviors that are bad for them, just as cigarette smokers are. They can fully understand the benefits of exercising to improve their balance (or not smoking) on an intellectual level and not do it, but I don't see that as an example of lack of free will. In Buddhist thought, we still have samskaras (influences) that affect us and urge us to act in certain ways. If you don't like the Buddh-ese, you can just as easily call them habit patterns. But I have certainly had the subjective experience of resisting the urges and catching myself when about to fall into an old habitual pattern, and then doing something else. But check this out. I can only act this way myself because of a habit I formed long ago. I am not freely choosing this behavior to affect myself in the future, it is just the luck of the draw that I happened to be a skier and got a bolo board as a kid and then happened to continue to buy them as I got older. I never fell off one and hurt myself which might have derailed my owning one now. So all those events conspired to make it mandatory for me to act the way I do. So can I claim free will, really? You may not feel that you can, but I certainly could, given the same circumstances. Without the element of free will, I would have to believe that someone or something else was in charge of all my decisions, and as you say, that does not feel intuitively correct. So I'm gonna stick with the intuitive approach BECAUSE, as we've already established, there is really no other option. We all ACT as if we have free will, whether we do or not, so I honestly don't see any value in (for me) pretending that we don't when subjectively we obviously do. I cannot think of an up side to believing in a lack of free will. What is different between me and everyone else who would benefit from this exercise? The influences from my past which I am not choosing to abide by in the present, they compel me. Have a great time in Amsterdam where your free choices will be challenged by a cornucopia of delights. Can we predict which ones you will freely choose? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I'm going to be in Amsterdam today and thus not following FFL, but I thought I'd use my free will :-) to throw out one last set of thoughts that your writings on the free will issue have triggered in me. Probably because I just finished writing a short article about proprioception, in my mind many of these supposed neurological studies about whether we have free will link with that phenomenon in my mind. I think that the neuroscientists might be confusing the distinction between *conscious* decision-making and *unconscious* decision-making when trying to prove their contention that we have no free will. *Both* forms of decision-making are present at all times. It has been estimated that fewer than 1% of the mind-body processes that keep
[FairfieldLife] Word of God = = biija-mantra??
Heb. 4:12 12 For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 12 For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 12 for the reckoning of God is living, and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart;
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Buddhists celebrate no self
Speaking purely for myself, TM is different to other forms of meditation but the effects of the other types my be be more useful if you have the sort of health issues that TM claims (but fails) to address. And may be more useful anyway.. Mindfulness can be highly beneficial for anxiety and depression states where TM is patently not. But if you're just going to judge everything by the EEGs what are you going to find out about it? Not much I would have thought. Here's the shocking truth; different types of meditation can affect and enhance the way you react to things that happen in your life, or because of things that happened previously, in different ways. The immediacy of experience that mindfulness gives you can help you live more spontaneously by freeing you from negative reaction patterns you may have picked up. It can also target things that bother you rather than let you sit around hoping that some stress is going to be released at some point in the future and you'll suddenly be able to cope better with problems. This approach can be of enormous value and it's something that EEG research isn't going to be able to help you with. You are way too fixated on this stuff Lawson. Did you read the Stanford research paper MJ posted about how they tested TM claims about stress release and anxiety reduction and found the TMO was exaggerating, mistaken or lying about the long term effects? We all know many people that don't fit the TM model of perfect functioning and would undoubtably all know many more if a large majority didn't quit the practise in the first few months, regardless of what their EEGs might be telling us. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Former TMers enjoy claiming that TM has the same effects as all other practices, but anyone who looks at the EEG signature of various practices instantly realizes that such people are either speaking from ignorance (willful or otherwise) or deliberately lying. Here's a discussion of no-self and American Buddhism in the context of a course on Buddhist philosophy and how it fits in with the research on Buddhist meditation (mindfulness, though focussed attention practices such as Benson's Relaxation Response, Samatha and Metta, all have teh same overall effect): http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2014/05/buddhism-and-modern-psychology-week-five-looking-at-meditation.html http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2014/05/buddhism-and-modern-psychology-week-five-looking-at-meditation.html Now that we’ve seen it suggested that the modular theory of the mind dovetails with the Buddhist theory of not-self, we look at how meditation might fit in to our picture. The first way this is discussed comes by looking at the Default Mode Network, which is the part of the brain that is active when our mind isn’t focused on anything. Brain scans have shown that meditation quiets this network. The activation of the Default Mode Network (DMN) becomes greater during TM. Coincidentally, activation of teh DMN is associated with sense of self, so the fact practice of meditation techniques that quiet the DMN also quiet sense of self is, well, a no-brainer. Likewise, the fact that TM, a mind-wandering practice, enhances teh activity of the DMN (including strengthening the activity of the brain associated with sense of self) is a no surprising, either. People who insist that all meditation practices eventually lead to the same place are fooling themselves. Mindfulness and concentrative practices, in the long run, distort the functioning of the Default Mode Network. Maharishi called this subtle damage to the nervous system. TM enhances the normal restful functioning of the brain, aka the Default Mode Network, which becomes active whenever the mind is allowed to wander. There's no reconciling the two approaches to spirituality.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Great information, anartaxius. Wolfram's theories kinda mesh with mine, in that I don't see any *need* to postulate free will when both the complexity and the seeming order we see around us can just as easily be explained by random collisions within a somewhat-ordered but fundamentally random system. One of the ways I think some spiritual people get a bit off in their thinking about determinism or a lack of free will is that they're trying to impose their hierarchical *intellectual understanding of a certain subjective state onto the universe as a whole and say, That's it. That's how it works. That is how the universe IS at its most fundamental level. I am speaking, of course, of the Not the doer experience. Most on this forum have heard about it; many have experienced it. I have, too. And it's an interesting feeling, being so in the flow of life that it seems as if you are a mere puppet dancing to someone or something else manipulating the puppet strings. I have NO PROBLEM with this feeling or subjective experience existing. I've had it myself. What I *don't* do is assign that subjective experience a *value* of being higher or more fundamental than any other subjective experience. Not the doer is, for me, Just Another Experience, Just Another State Of Attention. I think many spiritual folks have been taught that it ISN'T Just Another State Of Attention, it's the HIGHEST State Of Attention, and that one should aspire or seek to having it all the time. You pay yer dues on the spiritual path, and finally you get to live in this highest state all the time. That, of course, is the basis of Maharishi's Seven States Of Consciousness. Completely and utterly hierarchical. As I've stated before, I don't believe that life or the universe IS hierarchical. And I don't believe that any subjective state of attention -- even Unity or Brahman as described by MMY -- is the highest or best or most fundamental state of attention. It's just another one. But if you believe this Not the doer feeling is *more* than a feeling, and how things should be when you've reached some supposed pinnacle of human evolution, you might come to believe that the subjective feeling is somehow correct or the baseline of existence and that you have no free will. I don't buy it. I think that the Not the doer thang, however interesting it may be, is -- as I said -- Just Another State Of Attention, and no closer to any fundamental truth about the universe than any other state. So there is no impetus on my part to want to believe that my personal Not the doer feelings were anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They're just different states, that's all. No hierarchy or better about either one. From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis Based on ideas that began with the work of mathematicians Benoit Mandelbrot and John Conway, the physicist Stephen Wolfram has some interesting ideas on the nature of free will. Wolfram has been investigating simple computational systems that have very simple starting conditions and very simple rules which nonetheless result in extremely complicated results, as the rules are applied to the system iteratively ad infinitum. The results of these simple systems have been extraordinary order as well as what seems like total chaos. Here is what Wolfram, from his book A New Kind of Science says about free will: The Phenomenon of Free Will Ever since antiquity it has been a great mystery how the universe can follow definite laws while we as humans still often manage to make decisions about how to act in ways that seem quite free of obvious laws. But from the discoveries in this book it finally now seems possible to give an explanation for this. And the key, I believe, is the phenomenon of computational irreducibility. For what this phenomenon implies is that even though a system may follow definite underlying laws its overall behaviour can still have aspects that fundamentally cannot be described by reasonable laws. For if the evolution of a system corresponds to an irreducible computation then this means that the only way to work out how the system will behave is essentially to perform this computation--with the result that there can fundamentally be no laws that allow one to work out the behaviour more directly. And it is this, I believe, that is the ultimate origin of the apparent freedom of human will. For even though all the components of our brains presumably follow definite laws, I strongly
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
turq, I think most humans have a hierarchy, if only in that they have preferred states. Your preferred state is to view all conditions as equal in value. But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:03 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Great information, anartaxius. Wolfram's theories kinda mesh with mine, in that I don't see any *need* to postulate free will when both the complexity and the seeming order we see around us can just as easily be explained by random collisions within a somewhat-ordered but fundamentally random system. One of the ways I think some spiritual people get a bit off in their thinking about determinism or a lack of free will is that they're trying to impose their hierarchical *intellectual understanding of a certain subjective state onto the universe as a whole and say, That's it. That's how it works. That is how the universe IS at its most fundamental level. I am speaking, of course, of the Not the doer experience. Most on this forum have heard about it; many have experienced it. I have, too. And it's an interesting feeling, being so in the flow of life that it seems as if you are a mere puppet dancing to someone or something else manipulating the puppet strings. I have NO PROBLEM with this feeling or subjective experience existing. I've had it myself. What I *don't* do is assign that subjective experience a *value* of being higher or more fundamental than any other subjective experience. Not the doer is, for me, Just Another Experience, Just Another State Of Attention. I think many spiritual folks have been taught that it ISN'T Just Another State Of Attention, it's the HIGHEST State Of Attention, and that one should aspire or seek to having it all the time. You pay yer dues on the spiritual path, and finally you get to live in this highest state all the time. That, of course, is the basis of Maharishi's Seven States Of Consciousness. Completely and utterly hierarchical. As I've stated before, I don't believe that life or the universe IS hierarchical. And I don't believe that any subjective state of attention -- even Unity or Brahman as described by MMY -- is the highest or best or most fundamental state of attention. It's just another one. But if you believe this Not the doer feeling is *more* than a feeling, and how things should be when you've reached some supposed pinnacle of human evolution, you might come to believe that the subjective feeling is somehow correct or the baseline of existence and that you have no free will. I don't buy it. I think that the Not the doer thang, however interesting it may be, is -- as I said -- Just Another State Of Attention, and no closer to any fundamental truth about the universe than any other state. So there is no impetus on my part to want to believe that my personal Not the doer feelings were anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They're just different states, that's all. No hierarchy or better about either one. From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis Based on ideas that began with the work of mathematicians Benoit Mandelbrot and John Conway, the physicist Stephen Wolfram has some interesting ideas on the nature of free will. Wolfram has been investigating simple computational systems that have very simple starting conditions and very simple rules which nonetheless result in extremely complicated results, as the rules are applied to the system iteratively ad infinitum. The results of these simple systems have been extraordinary order as well as what seems like total chaos. Here is what Wolfram, from his book A New Kind of Science says about free will: The Phenomenon of Free Will Ever since antiquity it has been a great mystery how the universe can follow definite laws while we as humans still often manage to make decisions about how to act in ways that seem quite free of obvious laws. But from the discoveries in this book it finally now seems possible to give an explanation for this. And the key, I believe, is the phenomenon of computational irreducibility. For what this phenomenon implies is that even though a system may follow definite underlying laws its overall behaviour can still
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Curtis, just to add the ideas of a Buddhist, Tara Goleman-Bennett in whose book I first encountered the notion that the brain's neural pathways are like ruts in a dirt road. The more we go down a specific direction, the deeper that rut becomes so that we're even more likely to take that direction the next time. But the first time we choose another behavior, a whole new set of neural pathways light up and become stronger, more likely to be followed the next time. The moment I'm fascinated by is that nano second when a person first chooses to go for a walk rather than light up a cigarette. If we could understand that nano second, we might be able to help ourselves with addictions, and even habits, that are less than beneficial. On Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:25 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living room looks like a training camp for Cirque! Plus I have had to spend some time in assisted living facilities for personal and professional reasons lately so this is an up topic for me. I am still sorting out what the positions are with regard to free will so this is my best guess. I believe you are continuing to make the intuitive case FOR free will. This is exactly why we believe in free will. We are obviously able to influence our unconscious processes through such things as exercises and this will influence our future positively. It all makes perfect sense until we look at what actually happens in the lives of the elderly. First, other than a suicidal person (and there are some in these homes but not many) there is no reason for an older person to FREELY CHOOSE to fall down and hurt themselves. Second, It seems logical that if this exercise could help them choose not to fall, they would all be doing them. Last, they don't! I have been preaching this message to my Dad for years and he buys into it even. His physical therapist preaches this message to every person in his facility. But if you talk with any therapist in a facility you will uncover their frustration that they cannot get the residents to do their exercises once they are out of his or her sight. Everyone believes this is a good idea and if the elderly could truly freely choose they would. But they cannot because their choices are not free. They are determined by a lifetime of not exercising this way. (This is a cautionary time to automate this activity now before auto pilot removes this choice.) But check this out. I can only act this way myself because of a habit I formed long ago. I am not freely choosing this behavior to affect myself in the future, it is just the luck of the draw that I happened to be a skier and got a bolo board as a kid and then happened to continue to buy them as I got older. I never fell off one and hurt myself which might have derailed my owning one now. So all those events conspired to make it mandatory for me to act the way I do. So can I claim free will, really? What is different between me and everyone else who would benefit from this exercise? The influences from my past which I am not choosing to abide by in the present, they compel me. Have a great time in Amsterdam where your free choices will be challenged by a cornucopia of delights. Can we predict which ones you will freely choose? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I'm going to be in Amsterdam today and thus not following FFL, but I thought I'd use my free will :-) to throw out one last set of thoughts that your writings on the free will issue have triggered in me. Probably because I just finished writing a short article about proprioception, in my mind many of these supposed neurological studies about whether we have free will link with that phenomenon in my mind. I think that the neuroscientists might be confusing the distinction between *conscious* decision-making and *unconscious* decision-making when trying to prove their contention that we have no free will. *Both* forms of decision-making are present at all times. It has been estimated that fewer than 1% of the mind-body processes that keep us alive ever register as conscious thoughts in the human mind. You don't have to consciously try to breathe, or to keep your heart beating. Similarly, in most cases you don't consciously have to try to keep your balance, because your proprioceptive system (in conjunction with the vestibular system and the visual system) enable you to do so without your conscious mind having to get involved. Specialized proprioceptor nerve cells transmit and receive signals to and from the cerebellum, reacting to changing stimuli (like Am I walking on a slippery surface?) from the muscles, tendons, joints, and skin. The cerebellum processes the incoming information -- literally millions of such impulses per hour -- and calculates how the muscles
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis turq, I think most humans have a hierarchy, if only in that they have preferred states. Your preferred state is to view all conditions as equal in value. But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! For *me*, Share. I didn't try to sell it to you. Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. Nonsense. People do this all the time, continue behaviors that they consciously *know* are detrimental to them. Their position within an imaginary hierarchy has no relationship to whether they continue those behaviors or not. My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. I think that the tendency to see the universe as hierarchical is a way of thinking that was *taught* to us -- so early and so often and for so long that most people don't even realize that it WAS *taught* to them. I do NOT believe it's inherent to the human condition. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:03 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Great information, anartaxius. Wolfram's theories kinda mesh with mine, in that I don't see any *need* to postulate free will when both the complexity and the seeming order we see around us can just as easily be explained by random collisions within a somewhat-ordered but fundamentally random system. One of the ways I think some spiritual people get a bit off in their thinking about determinism or a lack of free will is that they're trying to impose their hierarchical *intellectual understanding of a certain subjective state onto the universe as a whole and say, That's it. That's how it works. That is how the universe IS at its most fundamental level. I am speaking, of course, of the Not the doer experience. Most on this forum have heard about it; many have experienced it. I have, too. And it's an interesting feeling, being so in the flow of life that it seems as if you are a mere puppet dancing to someone or something else manipulating the puppet strings. I have NO PROBLEM with this feeling or subjective experience existing. I've had it myself. What I *don't* do is assign that subjective experience a *value* of being higher or more fundamental than any other subjective experience. Not the doer is, for me, Just Another Experience, Just Another State Of Attention. I think many spiritual folks have been taught that it ISN'T Just Another State Of Attention, it's the HIGHEST State Of Attention, and that one should aspire or seek to having it all the time. You pay yer dues on the spiritual path, and finally you get to live in this highest state all the time. That, of course, is the basis of Maharishi's Seven States Of Consciousness. Completely and utterly hierarchical. As I've stated before, I don't believe that life or the universe IS hierarchical. And I don't believe that any subjective state of attention -- even Unity or Brahman as described by MMY -- is the highest or best or most fundamental state of attention. It's just another one. But if you believe this Not the doer feeling is *more* than a feeling, and how things should be when you've reached some supposed pinnacle of human evolution, you might come to believe that the subjective feeling is somehow correct or the baseline of existence and that you have no free will. I don't buy it. I think that the Not the doer thang, however interesting it may be, is -- as I said -- Just Another State Of Attention, and no closer to any fundamental truth about the universe than any other state. So there is no impetus on my part to want to believe that my personal Not the doer feelings were anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They're just different states, that's all. No hierarchy or better about either one. From: anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis Based on ideas that began with the work of mathematicians Benoit Mandelbrot and John Conway, the physicist Stephen Wolfram has some
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
turq, I think it's hardwired into all life forms to survive and procreate. And any conditioning or teaching that happens after birth, is derived from that particular species acquired *knowledge* regarding both. And yes, people do what's detrimental all the time. But I think this indicates the presence of a mechanism for reaching, if not a state of happiness and peace, at least a state of homeostasis. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 6:25 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis turq, I think most humans have a hierarchy, if only in that they have preferred states. Your preferred state is to view all conditions as equal in value. But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! For *me*, Share. I didn't try to sell it to you. Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. Nonsense. People do this all the time, continue behaviors that they consciously *know* are detrimental to them. Their position within an imaginary hierarchy has no relationship to whether they continue those behaviors or not. My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. I think that the tendency to see the universe as hierarchical is a way of thinking that was *taught* to us -- so early and so often and for so long that most people don't even realize that it WAS *taught* to them. I do NOT believe it's inherent to the human condition. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:03 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Great information, anartaxius. Wolfram's theories kinda mesh with mine, in that I don't see any *need* to postulate free will when both the complexity and the seeming order we see around us can just as easily be explained by random collisions within a somewhat-ordered but fundamentally random system. One of the ways I think some spiritual people get a bit off in their thinking about determinism or a lack of free will is that they're trying to impose their hierarchical *intellectual understanding of a certain subjective state onto the universe as a whole and say, That's it. That's how it works. That is how the universe IS at its most fundamental level. I am speaking, of course, of the Not the doer experience. Most on this forum have heard about it; many have experienced it. I have, too. And it's an interesting feeling, being so in the flow of life that it seems as if you are a mere puppet dancing to someone or something else manipulating the puppet strings. I have NO PROBLEM with this feeling or subjective experience existing. I've had it myself. What I *don't* do is assign that subjective experience a *value* of being higher or more fundamental than any other subjective experience. Not the doer is, for me, Just Another Experience, Just Another State Of Attention. I think many spiritual folks have been taught that it ISN'T Just Another State Of Attention, it's the HIGHEST State Of Attention, and that one should aspire or seek to having it all the time. You pay yer dues on the spiritual path, and finally you get to live in this highest state all the time. That, of course, is the basis of Maharishi's Seven States Of Consciousness. Completely and utterly hierarchical. As I've stated before, I don't believe that life or the universe IS hierarchical. And I don't believe that any subjective state of attention -- even Unity or Brahman as described by MMY -- is the highest or best or most fundamental state of attention. It's just another one. But if you believe this Not the doer feeling is *more* than a feeling, and how things should be when you've reached some supposed pinnacle of human evolution, you might come to believe that the subjective feeling is somehow correct or the baseline of existence and that you have no free will. I don't buy it. I think that the Not the doer thang, however interesting it may be, is -- as I said -- Just Another State Of Attention, and no closer to any fundamental truth about the universe than any other state. So there is no impetus on my part to want to believe that my personal Not the doer feelings were anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Re-Facilitating a Future and the New TM Movement:
Let me reply on behalf of Michael. Ha! Proves It!. Just what we all suspected! Marshy tricked us all. Told us our meditation was the most important activity for the movement. But no, it was the kitchen activity. No doubt this was just a ploy on the his part to make us pay more for kitchen ingredients. Or, I know! He told us we needed to pay more for better ingredients, and the substituted cheap stuff. And no doubt Girish was there, making a note of it all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Before a meeting with scientists in Seelisberg Maharishi was asked; Who is the most important person here now. Maharishi replied: the cook ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 5/3/2014 4:25 PM, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote: Is this the same as heads I win, tails you lose I mean, many of your arguments are fashioned that way I think. This may have some partial truth to it, because anyone can tell that MJ has some mental and emotional instability problems. The question though, is did he have these problems before he started TM or as a result of rounding, or as a result of his upbringing. Go figure. Another question is, why don't the people at MUM screen people for these kinds of problems? Everyone knows that the mental condition and attitude of the cook at a yoga camp has a direct effect on the well being of the camp participants. When you've got a cook with a negative attitude you are going to have some real serious problems. In one case, the bad food almost caused a revolt, according to my sources. It's bad enough to have to eat cafeteria food, but it's just an insult to get a sarcastic dish washer as well. Only the most advanced meditators are allowed to even get near the kitchen at a Zen Session. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : you are wrong about that some aspects of the practice under certain circumstances leads to mental and emotional instability. This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
good points Share. what the Turq doesn't realize I think is that on some level, whether he wants to acknowledge it or not, is that his life is driven to gain more understanding, as is the same as most people. It is, as you say hard wired into us. And the funny thing is, that once you start having experiences of non doer stuff, etc., you really don't pay attention to them. you just let it happen, or not happen. what doesn't make sense, at least for me, is to make such a damn big deal about whether it is a big deal. It's not, unless you continue to make a big deal about it not being a big deal. (-: it's kind of like the only time you aren't aware of gravity, is when you are most under its influence. I think the spiritual game is like that. It propagates itself to some extent. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : turq, I think most humans have a hierarchy, if only in that they have preferred states. Your preferred state is to view all conditions as equal in value. But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:03 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... wrote: Great information, anartaxius. Wolfram's theories kinda mesh with mine, in that I don't see any *need* to postulate free will when both the complexity and the seeming order we see around us can just as easily be explained by random collisions within a somewhat-ordered but fundamentally random system. One of the ways I think some spiritual people get a bit off in their thinking about determinism or a lack of free will is that they're trying to impose their hierarchical *intellectual understanding of a certain subjective state onto the universe as a whole and say, That's it. That's how it works. That is how the universe IS at its most fundamental level. I am speaking, of course, of the Not the doer experience. Most on this forum have heard about it; many have experienced it. I have, too. And it's an interesting feeling, being so in the flow of life that it seems as if you are a mere puppet dancing to someone or something else manipulating the puppet strings. I have NO PROBLEM with this feeling or subjective experience existing. I've had it myself. What I *don't* do is assign that subjective experience a *value* of being higher or more fundamental than any other subjective experience. Not the doer is, for me, Just Another Experience, Just Another State Of Attention. I think many spiritual folks have been taught that it ISN'T Just Another State Of Attention, it's the HIGHEST State Of Attention, and that one should aspire or seek to having it all the time. You pay yer dues on the spiritual path, and finally you get to live in this highest state all the time. That, of course, is the basis of Maharishi's Seven States Of Consciousness. Completely and utterly hierarchical. As I've stated before, I don't believe that life or the universe IS hierarchical. And I don't believe that any subjective state of attention -- even Unity or Brahman as described by MMY -- is the highest or best or most fundamental state of attention. It's just another one. But if you believe this Not the doer feeling is *more* than a feeling, and how things should be when you've reached some supposed pinnacle of human evolution, you might come to believe that the subjective feeling is somehow correct or the baseline of existence and that you have no free will. I don't buy it. I think that the Not the doer thang, however interesting it may be, is -- as I said -- Just Another State Of Attention, and no closer to any fundamental truth about the universe than any other state. So there is no impetus on my part to want to believe that my personal Not the doer feelings were anything more *than* feelings. I don't have to try to postulate a lack of free will just because I've occasionally experienced something that feels like that subjectively. I don't buy the dogma that suggests that having an ego and a sense of self is in any way lesser than having a non-ego, not-the-doer sense of Self. They're just different states, that's all. No hierarchy or better about either one. From: anartaxius@... anartaxius@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:11 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis Based on ideas that began with the work of mathematicians Benoit Mandelbrot and John Conway, the physicist Stephen Wolfram has some interesting ideas on the nature of free will. Wolfram has been investigating simple computational systems that have very simple starting conditions and very simple rules which nonetheless result in
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
The Meissner Effect [ME] of consciousness coherence is a good descriptor for this phenomena too in nature. Is a remarkable discovery really and fabulous to be in the middle of a ME field effect where it occurs. One can feel quite sadly for these folks who so determinedly deny themselves in their own free will in the face of all the science, observation, and spiritual experience of the experience or the possibility of any such a field effect of consciousness coherence. Talk about bull-headed stubborn asses. Either its bad breeding or this must be something in their upbringing that they are of such a bad disposition and hyper-reactivity that they can deny and repeat such as they do with such venom and hate of the obvious good and benefits to meditating. Out-layers really. There is something going on with these apostates [likely effect of some bad upbringing or genetics] that is simply outside the normative that makes them asocial in a group. In the wider scholarly field of altruistic evolution it would make an interesting study to test the haters and deniers particularly here and around the internet for their spiritual efficaciousness, -Buck mjackson74 writes: The evidence that belies this crap the Movement puts out are the actual wars that exist all over the globe, the murders and rapes that take place in the heart of the Movement in Fairfield, a purusha man committing suicide by setting himself on fire in the basement of Marshy's home in Vlodrop, and many other suicides and attempted suicide in the TMO, the enforced slavery in Africa of children and use of child soldiers in wars there. The list goes on and on. As I have said numerous times here, the people of this world are screwed up, but they are not completely stupid. If this so-called technology worked, the people of the world would be clamoring to embrace it. In fact as I have also said here, EVERY Third World country would have ALREADY mandated that every citizen above the age of 12 practice TMSP in groups because that would make the country invulnerable to attack internally and externally. They have not, because it does not. This slavish adherence to an obviously false idea does no one any good. Yep, .the findings have been consistent across a large number of replications. As unlikely as the premise may sound, I think we have to take these studies seriously.”Ted Robert Gurr, PhD Emeritus Professor of Government and PoliticsUniversity of Maryland sri...@ymail.com writes: Permanent Peace: What's the Evidence Permanent Peace: What's the Evidence SUMMARY What’s the Evidence? View on http://www.permanentpeace.org/evidence/index.html http://www.permanentpeace.org/evidence/index.html .
[FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
Now that the introduction of Naharishi brahminism is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the participants more appreciative of Maharishi's knowledge, we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that reduce supperradiance by banning people from the domes for competing with the movement or visiting other spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis purity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Great oppurtunity for rethinking
sorry I meant opportunuity and Maharishi brahminism
[FairfieldLife] Re: American Buddhists celebrate no self
Stanford research paper? Do you mean the recent AHRQ meta-analysis of the effects of meditation on anxiety? I responded in the comment section to the Scientific American blog entry about it: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-meditation-overrated/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-meditation-overrated/ David Orme-Johnson wrote his own response in a Letter to the Editor in the journal where the meta-analysis itself was published. He was a consultant for the team that wrote the paper, but was obviously not pleased with the outcome. Another point about the metanalysis that I didn't go into in my comment, but David may: it only looked at clinical populations that were anxious and avoided looking at juvenile or non-clinical populations, which is the population that most of the TM research on anxiety has been drawn from. While I agree that TM studies need to have better control groups (active control group mentioned in the Scientific American blog is just the tip of the iceberg), there's an issue that you are not aware of: Out of the 16,000+ studies on meditation and anxiety examined in the meta-analysis, only 47 were deemed worth of of inclusion, or about 3 percent. There's only 350 studies on TM available, and 8 out of that 350 qualified, or about 17%. By the numbers, TM studies were nearly 6 times as likely to qualify as other meditation practices, putting the lie to the claim that TM studies are low quality when compared to studies on other forms of meditation. The flipside is that there ARE about 50 times as many non-TM studies to look at as TM studies, so there's an issue of sheer numbers. In any arbitrary meta-analysis, unless it is in an area where TM researchers have focused their attention consistently (such as heart disease where the AHA gives TM the nod), the fact that there are 50 times as many studies on other forms of meditation means that TM is likely going to lose due to not having enough studies to qualify for evaluation. I've pointed this out to John Hagelin and Michael Dillbeck, as well as the active group of TM researchers around the world: there will likely be more studies on mindfulness practice published in 2014 than have been published in the entire history of publishing research on TM. It's a huge issue, IMHO, and will require a multi-year (probably at least a decade of work) to address. This little graphic illustrates the issue: the number of studies published on mindfulness has been growing exponentially for the past 7 years, while the number of studies published on TM has remained flat: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203006996966605amp;set=pb.1555020826.-220752.1399207555.amp;type=3amp;theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203006996966605amp;set=pb.1555020826.-220752.1399207555.amp;type=3amp;theater That last data point drops down because the others are for the entire year, while that last is only the first month of data in 2014, even so the ratio remains pretty much as it was last year: 25x as many studies on mindfulness as on TM. My own belief, and I've made it clear to John and Michael and anyone else willing to listen, is that TM researchers need to perform head-to-head studies of TM vs whatever (especially mindfulness practices like MBSR) in order to leverage the landslide of researchers jumping on the mindfulness research bandwagon. The prototype for how that research would work is this study published by Charles Alexander of MIU and Ellen Langer of Harvard that compared TM and mindfulness and the Relaxation Response (low mindful relaxation) on a number of parameters. Each meditation practice had its own advocate on the team, and the study was jointly designed to make sure that all meditation practices were treated equally and that subjects had equal expectations for each practice (a major criticism of even active control group research): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2693686 The only way in which enough TM studies can be published to match the mindfulness onslaught is for TM researchers to participate in studies where mindfulness might prove to be superior to TM on one or more variables. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Speaking purely for myself, TM is different to other forms of meditation but the effects of the other types my be be more useful if you have the sort of health issues that TM claims (but fails) to address. And may be more useful anyway.. Mindfulness can be highly beneficial for anxiety and depression states where TM is patently not. But if you're just going to judge everything by the EEGs what are you going to find out about it? Not much I would have thought. Here's the shocking truth; different types of meditation can affect and enhance the way you react to things that
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Comments below... Because the thing is, humans, at a fundamental level, cannot prefer or value more highly, what they even unconsciously hold as detrimental. Nonsense. People do this all the time, continue behaviors that they consciously *know* are detrimental to them. Their position within an imaginary hierarchy has no relationship to whether they continue those behaviors or not. People can be very good at rationalizing behaviors they enjoy but know are detrimental. (Has nothing to do with the person's position within an imaginary hierarchy.) My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. It was a perceptive observation, not an attempt at a clever remark. And having a preference does imply having a hierarchy of personal values. Many of these are shared; some aren't. Many shared values are consonant with survival and reproduction. Whether that's because evolution built them into us is another question. And we may well have values that have nothing to do with survival of the fittest. So I don't think it's either/or.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
Quite simply, if Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit to begin with,
such policies and the attitudes they spring from could never have been born in
the first place. Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both
administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring
attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior.
On Sun, 5/4/14, sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 12:30 PM
Now that the introduction of Naharishi brahminism
is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the
participants more appreciative of Maharishi's knowledge,
we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that reduce
supperradiance by banning people from the domes for
competing with the movement or visiting other
spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their
adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis
purity.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. It was a perceptive observation, not an attempt at a clever remark. And having a preference does imply having a hierarchy of personal values. I disagree. Assuming you already like both flavors equally, you are offered either vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Does your choice at that meal imply that you feel the one you chose was higher or more valuable, of just that you had a preference for one of them that day? Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : The evidence that belies this crap the Movement puts out are the actual wars that exist all over the globe, the murders and rapes that take place in the heart of the Movement in Fairfield, a purusha man committing suicide by setting himself on fire in the basement of Marshy's home in Vlodrop, and many other suicides and attempted suicide in the TMO, the enforced slavery in Africa of children and use of child soldiers in wars there. The list goes on and on. As I have said numerous times here, the people of this world are screwed up, but they are not completely stupid. If this so-called technology worked, the people of the world would be clamoring to embrace it. In fact as I have also said here, EVERY Third World country would have ALREADY mandated that every citizen above the age of 12 practice TMSP in groups because that would make the country invulnerable to attack internally and externally. They have not, because it does not. This slavish adherence to an obviously false idea does no one any good. And as I have said, anyone with a smattering of common sense or who has lived and breathed and walked on this Earth for longer than 6 months would realize and understand that no matter how loudly or vehemently someone might proclaim from the very rooftops, something like the Maharishi Effect couldn't possibly exist. The only thing that could cause the cessation of all wars and strife on this planet would be for all life to cease to exist. Where there are human beings there are problems - there is unrest and there is greed, fear and jealousy. No amount of meditation or eating Rocky Road ice cream or canoeing is going to change that, no matter who tells you it will.
[FairfieldLife] America's disease of racism
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Silence+broken+Americas+quiet+bigotry/9803645/story.html http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Silence+broken+Americas+quiet+bigotry/9803645/story.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Quite simply, if Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring from could never have been born in the first place. Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior. Or, it may be that you are extrapolating your experience to the entire organization. Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't fit your agenda, you simply leave it out. at the introduction of Naharishi brahminism is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the participants more appreciative of Maharishi's knowledge, we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that reduce supperradiance by banning people from the domes for competing with the movement or visiting other spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis purity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. It was a perceptive observation, not an attempt at a clever remark. And having a preference does imply having a hierarchy of personal values. I disagree. Assuming you already like both flavors equally, you are offered either vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Does your choice at that meal imply that you feel the one you chose was higher or more valuable, of just that you had a preference for one of them that day? On that day, which flavor you choose has a higher value to you than the one you don't choose. Duh. Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) Actually it has to do with how one defines one's terms. If you find using your own idiosyncratic definitions of greater value than sticking to standard ones, that's your...uh...preference. Generally speaking, though, using standard definitions facilitates both thinking and communication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) Comment requiring no response: What I find odd, is that the person who just a day ago complained about someone coming in and spoiling a pleasant conversation is doing the same thing here. The only purpose of this last paragraph is to try to demean someone elses point of view. At least, that's the way I see it. Sorta like you can't disagree without a gratuitous personal dig.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
To demean points of view he disagrees with is high on Barry's list of personal values. Er, I mean, preferences... Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) Comment requiring no response: What I find odd, is that the person who just a day ago complained about someone coming in and spoiling a pleasant conversation is doing the same thing here. The only purpose of this last paragraph is to try to demean someone elses point of view. At least, that's the way I see it. Sorta like you can't disagree without a gratuitous personal dig.
[FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Quite simply, if Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring from could never have been born in the first place. Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior. That's because we are talking about human beings here. What did you think, because people meditate that they stop being human in some way? People are flawed, are weak, are full of all sorts of negative tendencies and traits. What magic potion did you think existed that could change that, fundamentally? Obviously I am missing the idealism gene because I never understood TM to be some airy fairy panacea that would eliminate the basic characteristics that single us out as humans - the need to be more powerful, better and privileged than the next guy (I'm exaggerating here. Most people would just be happy with a slightly bigger helping of Rocky Road ice cream.) Consequently, I was never surprised when assholes remained assholes and nice guys stayed nice, no matter how much they had been meditating or cavorting around the vicinity of MMY.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
Ok Michael, you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have pushed us over the edge. And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course is a Japanese translation of a Chinese term for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of the Caodong school of Zen Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated with the Soto school. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. The meditator strives to be aware of the stream of thoughts, allowing them to arise and pass away without interference. No, I am giving equal credit to both. Does this call for a Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
[FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. --- authfriend@... wrote : It was a perceptive observation, not an attempt at a clever remark. And having a preference does imply having a hierarchy of personal values. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : I disagree. Assuming you already like both flavors equally, you are offered either vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Does your choice at that meal imply that you feel the one you chose was higher or more valuable, of just that you had a preference for one of them that day? Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) The entities on the level of 'body, senses and mind' are bound by the great cosmic law of eternal fixation. The entities on the level of the intellect are bound by the great cosmic law of eternal change. The two great cosmic laws exist and operate side by side. It's important to understand this paradox first. Thus, the rules of existence change once the entity evolves to the intellectual level. In the movie matrix, Neo meets the architect and in that dialogue the notion of choice crops up. http://www.leesmovieinfo.net/special/ MatrixReloadedSpeech1.php http://www.leesmovieinfo.net/special/MatrixReloadedSpeech1.php This applies only to entities on the level of the intellect. I remember a master (forgot his name) saying, 'only entities on the lower order exist to survive. we are here only to understand.'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
You are so funny sometimes! I have to admit, I never thought of it before, but
eating ice cream will have as much effect on world peace as doing TMSP in the
Domes. So how do you account for the fact that Buck, Nabby, Sri, and a lot of
the folks in the Domes believes the Marshy Effect is real?
On Sun, 5/4/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:22
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mjackson74@... wrote :
The
evidence that belies this crap the Movement puts out are the
actual wars that exist all over the globe, the murders and
rapes that take place in the heart of the Movement in
Fairfield, a purusha man committing suicide by setting
himself on fire in the basement of Marshy's home in
Vlodrop, and many other suicides and attempted suicide in
the TMO, the enforced slavery in Africa of children and use
of child soldiers in wars there. The list goes on and on.
As I have said numerous times here, the people of this world
are screwed up, but they are not completely stupid. If this
so-called technology worked, the people of the
world would be clamoring to embrace it. In fact as I have
also said here, EVERY Third World country would have ALREADY
mandated that every citizen above the age of 12 practice
TMSP in groups because that would make the country
invulnerable to attack internally and externally. They have
not, because it does not. This slavish adherence to an
obviously false idea does no one any good.
And as I
have said, anyone with a smattering of common sense or who
has lived and breathed and walked on this Earth for longer
than 6 months would realize and understand that no matter
how loudly or vehemently someone might proclaim from the
very rooftops, something like the Maharishi Effect
couldn't possibly exist. The only thing that could cause
the cessation of all wars and strife on this planet would be
for all life to cease to exist. Where there are human beings
there are problems - there is unrest and there is greed,
fear and jealousy. No amount of meditation or eating Rocky
Road ice cream or canoeing is going to change that, no
matter who tells you it will.
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[FairfieldLife] A Proven Security Strategy
http://ny.thedailydigest.org/2014/04/27/proven-security-strategy-end-crisis-middle-east/ http://ny.thedailydigest.org/2014/04/27/proven-security-strategy-end-crisis-middle-east/ Complete and total World Peace is not so far away due to the work of people like Bob Roth, David Leffler, GCWP P.M. Bevan Morris, Raja Louis and Brahmachari Girish Varma. Together they are Maharishi, getting the word out and putting it into action. We can get there sooner or it would tragic for so many people if it is even a little bit later! Jai Guru Deva, Jai Maharishi, Jai Maharaja!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ok Michael, you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have pushed us over the edge. And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course is a Japanese translation of a Chinese term for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of the Caodong school of Zen Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated with the Soto school. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. The meditator strives to be aware of the stream of thoughts, allowing them to arise and pass away without interference. No, I am giving equal credit to both. Does this call for a Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration? I had to look that up! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : To demean points of view he disagrees with is high on Barry's list of personal values. Er, I mean, preferences... Compulsions. Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) Comment requiring no response: What I find odd, is that the person who just a day ago complained about someone coming in and spoiling a pleasant conversation is doing the same thing here. The only purpose of this last paragraph is to try to demean someone elses point of view. At least, that's the way I see it. Sorta like you can't disagree without a gratuitous personal dig.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
Just a little note: I feel like when when mentioning Shikantaza meditation, as when mentioning the Saint, May Peace Be Upon Him, that Shikantaza should not have to stand alone. You understand of course. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Ok Michael, you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have pushed us over the edge. And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course is a Japanese translation of a Chinese term for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of the Caodong school of Zen Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated with the Soto school. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. The meditator strives to be aware of the stream of thoughts, allowing them to arise and pass away without interference. No, I am giving equal credit to both. Does this call for a Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
[FairfieldLife] TM in business - Brasil
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204299152182778set=vb.1348046669type=2theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204299152182778set=vb.1348046669type=2theater
[FairfieldLife] 10 Scientific Studies Proving GMOs Harmful To Human Health
http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/08/10-scientific-studies-proving-gmos-can-be-harmful-to-human-health/ http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/08/10-scientific-studies-proving-gmos-can-be-harmful-to-human-health/ RAJA John Fagan - central to the victory over GMOs - Thank you Maharishi!! http://earthopensource.org/index.php/news/60-why-genetically-engineered-food-is-dangerous-new-report-by-genetic-engineers http://earthopensource.org/index.php/news/60-why-genetically-engineered-food-is-dangerous-new-report-by-genetic-engineers
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : You are so funny sometimes! I have to admit, I never thought of it before, but eating ice cream will have as much effect on world peace as doing TMSP in the Domes. So how do you account for the fact that Buck, Nabby, Sri, and a lot of the folks in the Domes believes the Marshy Effect is real? They carry that idealism gene that I lack - and evidently get enough Rocky Road to keep them from coveting their neighbors'. As I recall FF had a Baskin and Robbins that I frequented often, maybe that explains some of it. I have a terrible picture I am prepared to share with you taken at that very place back in the mid to late 70's. I don't remember what flavor it was, unfortunately but it must have been in the Rocky Road flavor category. (I would only post this photo for you MJ.)
[FairfieldLife] The Uncle Tantra Tour Of Amsterdam
Yesterday was really fun. I got to be the tour guide on a person's first walking tour of Amsterdam. I have a certain affinity for that city, having first gone there to teach meditation for free during the Rama days, and having had a great time doing it. I even wrote a few of the stories in Road Trip Mind about my experiences there. I don't -- or didn't, until yesterday -- know the lady I was showing around town very well. She had studied briefly with the Rama guy, so was interested in my stories of hanging with him there, but she was primarily my best friend's friend, and I didn't know her very well. But it was like platonic kismet. We had tremendous fun, laughed a LOT, shared stories about experiences we had had and power places we had visited, sat in cafes, and just wandered around soaking up the vibe of the place. The best moment of the day, for me, will not mean much to anyone who has never been to Amsterdam, or who has never learned the joys of surfing dimensions. That was what we used to do in the desert with Rama, walk between worlds, from one dimension that was powerful and had its own distinct vibe or flavor, and then BAM! you're in another one -- so different that the change is palpable, and stops you in your tracks. That's what Amsterdam has always been like for me. It's as if the different neighborhoods have different enough vibes that I could tell you which one I was in if you had led me there blindfolded. (I even tested this once, and succeeded.) You walk across a bridge, and the reality on the other side of the bridge is so palpably different than the one you just emerged from that it stops you in your tracks. I didn't tell my tour guest this. We just wandered. But crossing one of the most palpable borderlines between dimensions there in Amsterdam, she just stopped what she was saying in mid-sentence, stopped in her tracks, and said, Did you feel THAT? Made my day. Then I explained my theory of Amsterdam as a multi-dimensional place of power to her, she nodded in agreement, and we had fun the rest of the day walking around and feeling the different dimensional shifts as we passed from reality to reality. Mucho fun. It's one thing to have a slightly paranormal experience yourself, and be comfortable enough at having had it that you can assume that it is at least on one level real. But it's nice to have someone have the exact same experience, and at the exact same border crossings, without any prompting from me. Makes me think I'm saner than some here like to portray me. Or not. Whatever. Anyway, for those on this forum who seem to delight in thinking up weirdly perverse theories of What Turq/Barry/Uncle Tantra does for fun, this is the reality. Probably tamer than what you imagined, n'est-ce pas?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
I say this to you Steve and all my other critics here on FFL - If Marshy was
enlightened, and if the TMO does much more good in the world than harm, I am
willing to believe it, and I go on record that if those things can be proven to
me then I will reverse every criticism I have ever leveled against the TMO and
Marshy.
I will stop calling him, Marshy, Old Goat, lying son of bitch and all the other
names I have called him. I will become a spokesperson for the TMO, telling my
story of how I became convinced that TM is the best thing since sliced bread.
I will spearhead a push to get TM in ALL middle schools, high schools,
colleges, universities and trade schools in the country and in all US
protectorates around the globe.
I will be part of a supreme effort to get TM in every single US military
facility around the world, I will ask that TM and TMSP become part of every
soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guard basic training and
I will ask that Congress pass a law that every single congressman upon becoming
elected must learn TM and TMSP. I would also have it further mandated that
before ANY important vote on the house and senate floor the entire congress
would meditate together for half an hour.
Before Buck, Nabby, Feste, Sri and Steve spontaneously ascend into heaven over
the idea of all of the above, thus far I see no proof nor even any credible
evidence that Marshy was enlightened, nor that the TMO does more good than
harm. Mostly I see and hear evidence of quite the opposite. Stories of Marshy's
arrogance, elitist attitudes, Hindu fanaticism misuse and manipulation of
people, and a great deal more of both personal experience and the collective
experiences of friends, acquaintances and strangers that the TMO mainly tells
us that all sorts of grand things are GONE happen, they are not happening now
really for a variety of reasons but they are GONE happen, so keep giving
generously and keep buying abundantly all our goods, service and nostrums so
all this fabulous stuff will actually happen.
Mostly the Marshy did and the TMO still today tells everyone to do it and buy
it just cuz we say its real and true, not because it actually is true and real
and good. They ask everyone to suspend their own common sense, their own wisdom
and ability to discern truth and just believe whatever they are told by the TMO
especially where what the TMO says today contradicts what was said yesterday.
They want everyone just to believe and pay up even when the belief is obviously
superstition such as hiding under your desks during a solar eclipse As to the
claims and questionable research, I have to quote the wisdom of the Turq - If
TM (and its adjunct programs) were any good, they wouldn't have to lie to sell
them.
On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:27 PM
---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote
:
Quite simply, if
Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit
to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring
from could never have been born in the first
place.
Proximity to Marshy
and length of time spent both administering the Movement and
doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes
about common people, greed and a general display of poor
behavior.
Or, it may be that you are
extrapolating your experience to the entire organization.
Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of
such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that
could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't
fit your agenda, you simply leave it out.
at the introduction of
Naharishi brahminism
is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the
participants more appreciative of Maharishi's
knowledge,
we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that
reduce
supperradiance by banning people from the domes for
competing with the movement or visiting other
spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their
adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis
purity.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
I'm sure the people in the Ukraine will be thrilled to know this as they are
coming under the thumb of the Russian dictator and the Jews especially who are
now being required to register as a precursor to God knows what. Jai Guru
Stupidity.
On Sun, 5/4/14, sri...@ymail.com sri...@ymail.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:39 PM
It’s Official – Russia
Completely Bans GMOs
thank
you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai
Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
If you a stupid enough or insane enough to believe that the banning of GMO's is
proof of the ME when Putin is invading another country and requiring Jews to
register as Jews then you need to go check into your local state mental
hospital.
On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:57 PM
Ok Michael,
you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I
did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have
pushed us over the edge.
And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the
beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course
is a Japanese translation
of a Chinese term
for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of
theCaodong school of Zen
Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated
with the Soto school.
Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō
school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is
the largest of the three traditional
sects of Zen in
Japanese
Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It
emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no
objects, anchors,
or content.
The meditator strives to be aware of the stream
of thoughts, allowing them to arise and
pass away without
interference.
No, I am giving equal credit to
both.
Does this call for a
Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
It’s
Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs
thank you President Putin and Prime
Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai
Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
You get funnier by the minute!
On Sun, 5/4/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 2:08 PM
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mjackson74@... wrote :
You
are so funny sometimes! I have to admit, I never thought of
it before, but eating ice cream will have as much effect on
world peace as doing TMSP in the Domes. So how do you
account for the fact that Buck, Nabby, Sri, and a lot of the
folks in the Domes believes the Marshy Effect is
real?
They carry
that idealism gene that I lack - and evidently get enough
Rocky Road to keep them from coveting their neighbors'.
As I recall FF had a Baskin and Robbins that I frequented
often, maybe that explains some of it. I have a terrible
picture I am prepared to share with you taken at that very
place back in the mid to late 70's. I don't remember
what flavor it was, unfortunately but it must have been in
the Rocky Road flavor category. (I would only post
this photo for you
MJ.)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi Effect
On 5/4/2014 12:12 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: The evidence that belies this crap the Movement... Well, we know what MJ does on Saturday evenings. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
On 5/4/2014 1:39 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Possibly, possibly not. I have to admit that it was a really great day, and that getting to know this lady was the most fun I've had in a long time. You know that thing where two people just make each other laugh...that happened, so no complaints from my side, whether I chose my decisions freely, or not. :-) You were probably destined to meet your soul-mate at some point in time. That's the way things work sometimes. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Jedi, but why are we here to understand? Is it not at least to survive? Survive so that we can develop fully which is what I think we're here to do. Whatever the heck that will mean! All this discussion brings to my mind one of my favorite Maharishi ideas: save the psychology. Which I think neuroscience will allow us to do. Meaning that we won't have to label someone greedy, for example. We will simply note that a certain portion of their brain is not yet activated and or fully functioning. I actually think that many of these ancient traditions of human development, including but not limited to TM and Chinese medicine and the kahuna tradition, are all about full human development, full brain functioning. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 8:58 AM, jedi_sp...@yahoo.com jedi_sp...@yahoo.com wrote: My guess is that having preferences or hierarchies is hard wired into us for survival value. I disagree. I see nothing wrong with preference or believing in hierarchies, but I definitely don't see them as the same thing. Despite your attempt at what you thought was a clever remark earlier, having a preference does NOT imply believing in a hierarchy. --- authfriend@... wrote : It was a perceptive observation, not an attempt at a clever remark. And having a preference does imply having a hierarchy of personal values. --- turquoiseb@... wrote : I disagree. Assuming you already like both flavors equally, you are offered either vanilla or chocolate ice cream. Does your choice at that meal imply that you feel the one you chose was higher or more valuable, of just that you had a preference for one of them that day? Rhetorical question. No need to reply. I was just amused that neither you nor Share can conceive of having a preference without the presence of some kind of hierarchy. I would suggest that this is pretty limited thinking. But if it makes you unhappy, stick with it. :-) The entities on the level of 'body, senses and mind' are bound by the great cosmic law of eternal fixation. The entities on the level of the intellect are bound by the great cosmic law of eternal change. The two great cosmic laws exist and operate side by side. It's important to understand this paradox first. Thus, the rules of existence change once the entity evolves to the intellectual level. In the movie matrix, Neo meets the architect and in that dialogue the notion of choice crops up. http://www.leesmovieinfo.net/special/ MatrixReloadedSpeech1.php This applies only to entities on the level of the intellect. I remember a master (forgot his name) saying, 'only entities on the lower order exist to survive. we are here only to understand.'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I still think you're painting with too broad a brush when you use the term society. Some elements of society take the position you describe, but others do not. C: Seems like a reasonable objection. J: And the negative reaction to criticism from atheists has a great deal to do with its hostility quotient. Simple disagreement doesn't tend to provoke the same response as And you're stupid to believe this. C: Since Madalyn O'hair for whom this was true, I haven't seen this argument from any of the modern atheists. Which books have you read from them? I have seen them say that certain ideas like a 5,000 year old earth are stupid, but that is only because it really is. Given the barrage of death threats and ad hominem attacks that vocal atheist face, I think you might be holding them to a higher standard than you are the religious side. Check out some of the debates with religious people with Sam Harris. You will see much of his time spent deflecting personal attacks during a supposed discussion of ideas. I think you are putting the blame for this on the atheist as if they somehow deserve this abuse. I have seen numerous debates where this is not the case that the atheist started the personal attacks. I have even experienced it here on FFL in discussions. Who fires the first shot is perhaps a debatable point but in any case being stupid is not an atheist talking point about a god belief. It is that it is an idea with poor reasons supporting it. Personally I don't believe people who believe in some god are stupid since I have met people I consider smarter than I am who do. But whenever I have had a discussion with them about it I have found their acknowledgement that they have chosen to take a leap of faith and acknowledge that this choice is beyond reason. I respect that. I do not respect people who deny evolutionary science or try to get theological perspectives on creation into science curriculums in schools. J:Plus which, some of the most vocal atheists these days are also often quite ignorant about what religious belief entails. Not making the effort to acquaint oneself with what one is criticizing is perceived to be a function of intolerance, and rightly so, IMHO. Rather than facilitating full open discussion, it tends to slam the door on it. Those who most prominently speak for atheism need to get their act together, as far as I'm concerned (and speaking as a nonreligionist). C: One of the problems I learned from our Feser discussions is that atheists don't care about obscure ontological arguments about a god since it is the epistemological jumps that cause all the problems. As I pointed out, it is rare to find someone who does not include Aquinas in their classical version of god and this brings in the aspect of agency and interaction of god with the world and particularity with specific communications with mankind through certain books. That is the issue that concerns atheists. And once that jump has been made, the epistemological difference between an abstract spirit god who can still guide the hand of the writers (and translators) of the Bible and a fully decked out white bearded dude are insignificant. I know religious people make a big fuss about these distinctions and it rankles them to see what they think of as a more sophisticated version lumped in with versions they feel above intellectually. But once communication with a being with a personal agenda and ability to communicate that agenda to mankind specifically is claimed, these cherished distinctions are all a moot point. The bone of contention for atheists revolves around how we could be confident that this human claim is true or not. What is the claim based on. Not the imagined details of the being itself or himself or herself. The burden of proof is all on the man making the claim. Those other detail are all distractions to the epistemological issues. None of them improve or even hurt those knowledge issues. They are simply irrelevant to the real problem. No atheist I have read would have a problem with the kind of god that has zero interaction with humanity. That is just a speculation with zero consequences to the issues that concern atheists about the influence of the different god beliefs in societies around the world. Curtis, you way overstate the case. In this country, at least, there's oodles of criticism of biblical ideas, including ideas at the heart of Christian belief. Ever heard of the Jesus Seminar? And a currently popular book, How Jesus Became God, maintains that the idea of Jesus as God developed very much after the fact, that it was never anything Jesus said about himself. Those are just two examples of many. And I doubt you're going to find a whole lot of people who advocate slavery because the Bible does. Sure, there's always pushback, but to suggest
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Glad you had a great trip to the big A ! This is very interesting and I think you have put your finger on the most important issue that makes this topic fascinating to me. I hope there is this kind of choice point and am open to the idea that there might be techniques (perhaps meditation) that can improve our ability to make such choices. And we both agree that this represents our felt sense of how things are. We must act as it this is true. But I continue to be fascinated with the research and wouldn't mind if it turns out that this choice is another human illusion like my sense of self. So there are two forks in this discussion, the theoretical and the practical. I get which one you are into. But in the end, it may turn out that what seemed like just theoretical information actually improves our ability to find and execute such choice points in our life. I am predetermined to be an optimist about this possibility since I have grooved that in deeply through much practice! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, just to add the ideas of a Buddhist, Tara Goleman-Bennett in whose book I first encountered the notion that the brain's neural pathways are like ruts in a dirt road. The more we go down a specific direction, the deeper that rut becomes so that we're even more likely to take that direction the next time. But the first time we choose another behavior, a whole new set of neural pathways light up and become stronger, more likely to be followed the next time. The moment I'm fascinated by is that nano second when a person first chooses to go for a walk rather than light up a cigarette. If we could understand that nano second, we might be able to help ourselves with addictions, and even habits, that are less than beneficial. On Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:25 AM, curtisdeltablues@... curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living room looks like a training camp for Cirque! Plus I have had to spend some time in assisted living facilities for personal and professional reasons lately so this is an up topic for me. I am still sorting out what the positions are with regard to free will so this is my best guess. I believe you are continuing to make the intuitive case FOR free will. This is exactly why we believe in free will. We are obviously able to influence our unconscious processes through such things as exercises and this will influence our future positively. It all makes perfect sense until we look at what actually happens in the lives of the elderly. First, other than a suicidal person (and there are some in these homes but not many) there is no reason for an older person to FREELY CHOOSE to fall down and hurt themselves. Second, It seems logical that if this exercise could help them choose not to fall, they would all be doing them. Last, they don't! I have been preaching this message to my Dad for years and he buys into it even. His physical therapist preaches this message to every person in his facility. But if you talk with any therapist in a facility you will uncover their frustration that they cannot get the residents to do their exercises once they are out of his or her sight. Everyone believes this is a good idea and if the elderly could truly freely choose they would. But they cannot because their choices are not free. They are determined by a lifetime of not exercising this way. (This is a cautionary time to automate this activity now before auto pilot removes this choice.) But check this out. I can only act this way myself because of a habit I formed long ago. I am not freely choosing this behavior to affect myself in the future, it is just the luck of the draw that I happened to be a skier and got a bolo board as a kid and then happened to continue to buy them as I got older. I never fell off one and hurt myself which might have derailed my owning one now. So all those events conspired to make it mandatory for me to act the way I do. So can I claim free will, really? What is different between me and everyone else who would benefit from this exercise? The influences from my past which I am not choosing to abide by in the present, they compel me. Have a great time in Amsterdam where your free choices will be challenged by a cornucopia of delights. Can we predict which ones you will freely choose? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : I'm going to be in Amsterdam today and thus not following FFL, but I thought I'd use my free will :-) to throw out one last set of thoughts that your writings on the free will issue have triggered in me. Probably because I just finished writing a short article about proprioception, in my mind many of these supposed neurological studies about whether we have free will link with that phenomenon in my mind. I think that the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: American Buddhists celebrate no self
On 5/4/2014 12:05 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Eckhart Tolle does not practice meditation, in fact he claims that meditation can be a hindrance to awakening. The dictionary term meditation means simply to think things over. Based on this definition, everyone who is awake and thinks about anything, is meditating; and everyone is transcending to a certain degree most of the time. You probably couldn't go through a single day without pausing once or twice to take stock of your own mental contents. To claim one doesn't meditate is thus a contradiction in terms, and is therefore absurd. Apparently Eckhart Tolle thinks about the NOW most of the time, but he also remembers his past as well. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Curtis, for me there is already a sense that human choice is an illusion: in the sense that life force, or whatever one might call it, is driving everything, even our neural firings! Probably even that nano second I mentioned before, when a smoker decides to go for a walk rather than light a cigarette. But I bet that another option between theory and practice is to suspend between any theory that came from one's very last practice. To suspend in that everythingness and see what behavior emerges, see what part of the brain gets activated. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 9:56 AM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: Glad you had a great trip to the big A ! This is very interesting and I think you have put your finger on the most important issue that makes this topic fascinating to me. I hope there is this kind of choice point and am open to the idea that there might be techniques (perhaps meditation) that can improve our ability to make such choices. And we both agree that this represents our felt sense of how things are. We must act as it this is true. But I continue to be fascinated with the research and wouldn't mind if it turns out that this choice is another human illusion like my sense of self. So there are two forks in this discussion, the theoretical and the practical. I get which one you are into. But in the end, it may turn out that what seemed like just theoretical information actually improves our ability to find and execute such choice points in our life. I am predetermined to be an optimist about this possibility since I have grooved that in deeply through much practice! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Curtis, just to add the ideas of a Buddhist, Tara Goleman-Bennett in whose book I first encountered the notion that the brain's neural pathways are like ruts in a dirt road. The more we go down a specific direction, the deeper that rut becomes so that we're even more likely to take that direction the next time. But the first time we choose another behavior, a whole new set of neural pathways light up and become stronger, more likely to be followed the next time. The moment I'm fascinated by is that nano second when a person first chooses to go for a walk rather than light up a cigarette. If we could understand that nano second, we might be able to help ourselves with addictions, and even habits, that are less than beneficial. On Saturday, May 3, 2014 10:25 AM, curtisdeltablues@... curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Barry, Your post is on point for a few reasons. One, I am crazy about proprioceptive exercises. My living room looks like a training camp for Cirque! Plus I have had to spend some time in assisted living facilities for personal and professional reasons lately so this is an up topic for me. I am still sorting out what the positions are with regard to free will so this is my best guess. I believe you are continuing to make the intuitive case FOR free will. This is exactly why we believe in free will. We are obviously able to influence our unconscious processes through such things as exercises and this will influence our future positively. It all makes perfect sense until we look at what actually happens in the lives of the elderly. First, other than a suicidal person (and there are some in these homes but not many) there is no reason for an older person to FREELY CHOOSE to fall down and hurt themselves. Second, It seems logical that if this exercise could help them choose not to fall, they would all be doing them. Last, they don't! I have been preaching this message to my Dad for years and he buys into it even. His physical therapist preaches this message to every person in his facility. But if you talk with any therapist in a facility you will uncover their frustration that they cannot get the residents to do their exercises once they are out of his or her sight. Everyone believes this is a good idea and if the elderly could truly freely choose they would. But they cannot because their choices are not free. They are determined by a lifetime of not exercising this way. (This is a cautionary time to automate this activity now before auto pilot removes this choice.) But check this out. I can only act this way myself because of a habit I formed long ago. I am not freely choosing this behavior to affect myself in the future, it is just the luck of the draw that I happened to be a skier and got a bolo board as a kid and then happened to continue to buy them as I got older. I never fell off one and hurt myself which might have derailed my owning one now. So all those events conspired to make it mandatory for me to act the way I do. So can I claim free will, really? What is different between me and everyone else who would benefit from this exercise? The influences from my past which I am not choosing to abide by in the present, they compel me. Have a great time in
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 9:21 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: If you a stupid enough or insane enough to believe that the banning of GMO's is proof of the ME Non sequitur. It does not follow that banning GMO's is proof of the ME, or that not banning GMO's is stupid or insane. when Putin is invading another country and requiring Jews to register as Jews Apparently Putin himself has not invaded another country and is not requiring Jews to register. You are probably thinking of the separatists in Eastern Ukraine. then you need to go check into your local state mental hospital. You seem to be confused - it is the U.S. that invaded another country. Maybe you should read a history book or at least get a newspaper. Checking into a mental hospital might be a good idea too. Or, at least get a cult exit counselor to talk to you. You've got John Knapp's number, right? --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
On 5/4/2014 6:22 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! For *me*, Share. I didn't try to sell it to you. It's kind of difficult to write computer code without using a hierarchy. Go figure. The first coding course I took was 'Structuring Programming Languages' at my local community college. At first, I thought I wouldn't like it much, because I was not very fond of diagramming sentences in elementary school. But, it made so much sense, that I enrolled for MS Visual Basic in the next semester. Subsequently I completed a course in Oracle, Database Management w/MS Access, and Programming in SQL with Macromedia Cold Fusion 6. According to my Professor, a programmer should graduate knowing at least three computer programming languages. So, not believing in a hierarchy is thus absurd. It doesn't even make any sense in the practical world. We observe hierarchy almost everywhere in nature, beginning with gravity sucks. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
From: curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 4, 2014 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris C: One of the problems I learned from our Feser discussions is that atheists don't care about obscure ontological arguments about a god since it is the epistemological jumps that cause all the problems. As I pointed out, it is rare to find someone who does not include Aquinas in their classical version of god and this brings in the aspect of agency and interaction of god with the world and particularity with specific communications with mankind through certain books. That is the issue that concerns atheists. And once that jump has been made, the epistemological difference between an abstract spirit god who can still guide the hand of the writers (and translators) of the Bible and a fully decked out white bearded dude are insignificant. I know religious people make a big fuss about these distinctions and it rankles them to see what they think of as a more sophisticated version lumped in with versions they feel above intellectually. But once communication with a being with a personal agenda and ability to communicate that agenda to mankind specifically is claimed, these cherished distinctions are all a moot point. The bone of contention for atheists revolves around how we could be confident that this human claim is true or not. What is the claim based on. Not the imagined details of the being itself or himself or herself. The burden of proof is all on the man making the claim. Those other detail are all distractions to the epistemological issues. None of them improve or even hurt those knowledge issues. They are simply irrelevant to the real problem. Bingo. One of the things that I don't think a number of theists or quasi-theists or theists-in-denial-that-they're-theists don't get on this forum is that what they call atheists barging into an otherwise pleasant conversation about God is that this barging in often comes after a few rounds of them hurling the word atheist around as if they were saying Nigger! or Spawn of Satan or rakshasa. They actually don't *get* that they look down on atheists as much as they do, and that this fact pervades their speech/writing. IMO, giving them a little taste of their own medicine at that point is well-deserved. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: One last set of thoughts for Curtis
Richard, I wonder if the whole hierarchical thing happened because homeo sapiens stood up on two legs! Then the tendency to think of development as being ONLY a vertical process took over. I now tend to think of human development as a multi directional process, thinking of the brain as maybe having the potential to develop in all directions. On Sunday, May 4, 2014 10:24 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/4/2014 6:22 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: But by that very preferring, you raise the state of no hierarchy to the top of the heap of states! For *me*, Share. I didn't try to sell it to you. It's kind of difficult to write computer code without using a hierarchy. Go figure. The first coding course I took was 'Structuring Programming Languages' at my local community college. At first, I thought I wouldn't like it much, because I was not very fond of diagramming sentences in elementary school. But, it made so much sense, that I enrolled for MS Visual Basic in the next semester. Subsequently I completed a course in Oracle, Database Management w/MS Access, and Programming in SQL with Macromedia Cold Fusion 6. According to my Professor, a programmer should graduate knowing at least three computer programming languages. So, not believing in a hierarchy is thus absurd. It doesn't even make any sense in the practical world. We observe hierarchy almost everywhere in nature, beginning with gravity sucks. Go figure. This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
Slow down, slow down! I don't really care what you do. Quit making such
grand proclamations. I've an idea. At the risk of sounding like I'm preaching,
why don't you work on number one a bit, and just see you have some pockets of
bitterness you need to smooth out. n'est 'ce pas. (-;
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
I say this to you Steve and all my other critics here on FFL - If Marshy was
enlightened, and if the TMO does much more good in the world than harm, I am
willing to believe it, and I go on record that if those things can be proven to
me then I will reverse every criticism I have ever leveled against the TMO and
Marshy.
I will stop calling him, Marshy, Old Goat, lying son of bitch and all the
other names I have called him. I will become a spokesperson for the TMO,
telling my story of how I became convinced that TM is the best thing since
sliced bread.
I will spearhead a push to get TM in ALL middle schools, high schools,
colleges, universities and trade schools in the country and in all US
protectorates around the globe.
I will be part of a supreme effort to get TM in every single US military
facility around the world, I will ask that TM and TMSP become part of every
soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guard basic training and
I will ask that Congress pass a law that every single congressman upon
becoming elected must learn TM and TMSP. I would also have it further mandated
that before ANY important vote on the house and senate floor the entire
congress would meditate together for half an hour.
Before Buck, Nabby, Feste, Sri and Steve spontaneously ascend into heaven over
the idea of all of the above, thus far I see no proof nor even any credible
evidence that Marshy was enlightened, nor that the TMO does more good than
harm. Mostly I see and hear evidence of quite the opposite. Stories of Marshy's
arrogance, elitist attitudes, Hindu fanaticism misuse and manipulation of
people, and a great deal more of both personal experience and the collective
experiences of friends, acquaintances and strangers that the TMO mainly tells
us that all sorts of grand things are GONE happen, they are not happening now
really for a variety of reasons but they are GONE happen, so keep giving
generously and keep buying abundantly all our goods, service and nostrums so
all this fabulous stuff will actually happen.
Mostly the Marshy did and the TMO still today tells everyone to do it and buy
it just cuz we say its real and true, not because it actually is true and real
and good. They ask everyone to suspend their own common sense, their own wisdom
and ability to discern truth and just believe whatever they are told by the TMO
especially where what the TMO says today contradicts what was said yesterday.
They want everyone just to believe and pay up even when the belief is obviously
superstition such as hiding under your desks during a solar eclipse As to the
claims and questionable research, I have to quote the wisdom of the Turq - If
TM (and its adjunct programs) were any good, they wouldn't have to lie to sell
them.
On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:27 PM
---In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
mjackson74@... wrote
:
Quite simply, if
Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit
to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring
from could never have been born in the first
place.
Proximity to Marshy
and length of time spent both administering the Movement and
doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes
about common people, greed and a general display of poor
behavior.
Or, it may be that you are
extrapolating your experience to the entire organization.
Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of
such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that
could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't
fit your agenda, you simply leave it out.
at the introduction of
Naharishi brahminism
is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the
participants more appreciative of Maharishi's
knowledge,
we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that
reduce
supperradiance by banning people from the domes for
competing with the movement or visiting other
spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their
adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis
purity.
#yiv0531876808 #yiv0531876808 --
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
On 5/4/2014 8:27 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior. Or, it may be that you are extrapolating your experience to the entire organization. Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't fit your agenda, you simply leave it out. This kind of attitude probably comes from a sense of being all alone when you get to college. A new student can feel alone at a large school - get lost in the crowd. I would think this feeling is more profound when you're not even a student, but merely on staff. You can get the feeling that you are nobody and not important - that your voice can't be heard. It can be frustrating when you are poor and lost and confused. It sometimes can make you angry that the teachers or administrators, with all their fancy titles, who don't even know who you are. We've probably all been exposed to a school requirement that we didn't agree with, but not everyone gets out of school with a lingering hatred of education. Even if you didn't like the short, fat, bald-headed teacher in your shop class.. You don't have to like your school, just follow the rules and graduate. You don't have to like your boss, just do what he says, and get paid. It's not complicated. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
hoo boy
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
If you a stupid enough or insane enough to believe that the banning of GMO's
is proof of the ME when Putin is invading another country and requiring Jews to
register as Jews then you need to go check into your local state mental
hospital.
On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@...
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:57 PM
Ok Michael,
you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I
did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have
pushed us over the edge.
And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the
beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course
is a Japanese translation
of a Chinese term
for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of
theCaodong school of Zen
Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated
with the Soto school.
Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō
school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is
the largest of the three traditional
sects of Zen in
Japanese
Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It
emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no
objects, anchors,
or content.
The meditator strives to be aware of the stream
of thoughts, allowing them to arise and
pass away without
interference.
No, I am giving equal credit to
both.
Does this call for a
Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration?
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
It’s
Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs
thank you President Putin and Prime
Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai
Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
Comments below... Bingo. One of the things that I don't think a number of theists or quasi-theists or theists-in-denial-that-they're-theists Oh, you forgot to list the nontheists, like moi. don't get on this forum is that what they call atheists barging into an otherwise pleasant conversation about God is that this barging in often comes after a few rounds of them hurling the word atheist around as if they were saying Nigger! or Spawn of Satan or rakshasa. Sometimes, certainly not always. And in any case, much if not all of the theists' annoyance is a function of the BEHAVIOR of the atheists, not the fact that they're atheists. They actually don't *get* that they look down on atheists as much as they do, and that this fact pervades their speech/writing. Not me. Atheists are A-OK with me as long as they're relatively respectful of and courteous toward theists, and take the trouble to understand the theists' positions. IMO, giving them a little taste of their own medicine at that point is well-deserved. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
Just a friendly comment from the peanut gallery. You may think you don't have a hair trigger in this regard, but you might be mistaken. You also might want to examine which issues push your buttons and see if your reactions to the posting about such issues are in proportion to what is actually being discussed. Goose and gander type thing. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Bingo. One of the things that I don't think a number of theists or quasi-theists or theists-in-denial-that-they're-theists don't get on this forum is that what they call atheists barging into an otherwise pleasant conversation about God is that this barging in often comes after a few rounds of them hurling the word atheist around as if they were saying Nigger! or Spawn of Satan or rakshasa. They actually don't *get* that they look down on atheists as much as they do, and that this fact pervades their speech/writing. IMO, giving them a little taste of their own medicine at that point is well-deserved. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
On 5/4/2014 10:25 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: They actually don't *get* that they look down on atheists as much as they do, and that this fact pervades their speech/writing. According to what I've read, Sam Harris is opposed to the use of the word atheist, because it is not very defined. The word actually means someone who does not believe that deities exist. Which makes Barry seem confused, because he seems very interested in spiritual paths. Apparently Barry believes in a spirit or soul that at death, reincarnates in another human body. Which might lead one to ask: where exactly is the spirit located that reincarnates? Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 9:18 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I'm sure the people in the Ukraine will be thrilled to know this as they are coming under the thumb of the Russian dictator Apparently the majority of people living in Eastern Ukraine and the Crimea are of Russian descent and speak Russian. You do believe in self-determination, right? and the Jews especially who are now being required to register as a precursor to God knows what. Jai Guru Stupidity. Oh, so NOW you're taking up for the Jews in Ukraine, but in a previous post, you were in support of the Palestinians. You sound really confused. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
The US is unwise because companies like Monsanto have so many legislators in their pocket. They fool the people into believing that food prices are going to skyrocket just because of a little labeling on a package of food. The evil is amongst us and it is those who value profit over everything else including human life. On 05/04/2014 06:39 AM, sri...@ymail.com wrote: It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 11:11 AM, Bhairitu wrote: The US is unwise because companies like Monsanto have so many legislators in their pocket. They fool the people into believing that food prices are going to skyrocket just because of a little labeling on a package of food. The evil is amongst us and it is those who value profit over everything else including human life. The government of Syria drops barrel bombs on schools killing hundreds of students, but your enemy is Monsanto? Go figure. On 05/04/2014 06:39 AM, sri...@ymail.com wrote: It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
Syria isn't bombing you, Richard, but Monsanto *is. *So check your math. * *On 05/04/2014 09:43 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 5/4/2014 11:11 AM, Bhairitu wrote: The US is unwise because companies like Monsanto have so many legislators in their pocket. They fool the people into believing that food prices are going to skyrocket just because of a little labeling on a package of food. The evil is amongst us and it is those who value profit over everything else including human life. The government of Syria drops barrel bombs on schools killing hundreds of students, but your enemy is Monsanto? Go figure. On 05/04/2014 06:39 AM, sri...@ymail.com wrote: It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs http://www.avast.com/ This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
C'mon Stevie! I can be a great asset to the TMO! So prove all this stuff to me and I will become one. As to being bitter you are projecting your own bitterness on me. I have long ago gotten over any I had towards lying blowhard marshy and his movement. Now I simply report the facts. On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 3:38 PM Slow down, slow down! I don't really care what you do. Quit making such grand proclamations. I've an idea. At the risk of sounding like I'm preaching, why don't you work on number one a bit, and just see you have some pockets of bitterness you need to smooth out. n'est 'ce pas. (-; ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : I say this to you Steve and all my other critics here on FFL - If Marshy was enlightened, and if the TMO does much more good in the world than harm, I am willing to believe it, and I go on record that if those things can be proven to me then I will reverse every criticism I have ever leveled against the TMO and Marshy. I will stop calling him, Marshy, Old Goat, lying son of bitch and all the other names I have called him. I will become a spokesperson for the TMO, telling my story of how I became convinced that TM is the best thing since sliced bread. I will spearhead a push to get TM in ALL middle schools, high schools, colleges, universities and trade schools in the country and in all US protectorates around the globe. I will be part of a supreme effort to get TM in every single US military facility around the world, I will ask that TM and TMSP become part of every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guard basic training and I will ask that Congress pass a law that every single congressman upon becoming elected must learn TM and TMSP. I would also have it further mandated that before ANY important vote on the house and senate floor the entire congress would meditate together for half an hour. Before Buck, Nabby, Feste, Sri and Steve spontaneously ascend into heaven over the idea of all of the above, thus far I see no proof nor even any credible evidence that Marshy was enlightened, nor that the TMO does more good than harm. Mostly I see and hear evidence of quite the opposite. Stories of Marshy's arrogance, elitist attitudes, Hindu fanaticism misuse and manipulation of people, and a great deal more of both personal experience and the collective experiences of friends, acquaintances and strangers that the TMO mainly tells us that all sorts of grand things are GONE happen, they are not happening now really for a variety of reasons but they are GONE happen, so keep giving generously and keep buying abundantly all our goods, service and nostrums so all this fabulous stuff will actually happen. Mostly the Marshy did and the TMO still today tells everyone to do it and buy it just cuz we say its real and true, not because it actually is true and real and good. They ask everyone to suspend their own common sense, their own wisdom and ability to discern truth and just believe whatever they are told by the TMO especially where what the TMO says today contradicts what was said yesterday. They want everyone just to believe and pay up even when the belief is obviously superstition such as hiding under your desks during a solar eclipse As to the claims and questionable research, I have to quote the wisdom of the Turq - If TM (and its adjunct programs) were any good, they wouldn't have to lie to sell them. On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:27 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Quite simply, if Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring from could never have been born in the first place. Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior. Or, it may be that you are extrapolating your experience to the entire organization. Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't fit your agenda, you simply leave it out. at the introduction of Naharishi brahminism is getting an thoughtful reboot to make the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
And guess what else Russia in the supposedly purusha yogic flyer inspired
sattva is banning?
Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev has signed a decree banning foreign
same-sex couples -- as well as single people from countries where same-sex
marriages are legal -- from adopting Russian children.
Though there was no official ban until now, foreigners' attempts to adopt
Russian children before the decree generally would be unsuccessful if a
prospective adoptive parent was thought to be gay, international adoption
agencies based in Russia have said. Same-sex marriage is illegal in Russia.
So Jai Guru Stupidity and Moronic Adherence to the Non-Existent Marshy Effect.
On Sun, 5/4/14, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 4:44 PM
Syria
isn't bombing you, Richard, but
Monsanto is. So check your math.
On 05/04/2014 09:43 AM, Richard J. Williams
wrote:
On
5/4/2014 11:11 AM, Bhairitu
wrote:
The
US is unwise because
companies like Monsanto have so many
legislators in
their pocket. They fool the people into
believing that
food prices are going to skyrocket just
because of a
little labeling on a package of food. The
evil is
amongst us and it is those who value profit
over
everything else including human life.
The government of Syria drops barrel bombs on
schools
killing hundreds of students, but your enemy is
Monsanto? Go
figure.
On 05/04/2014 06:39 AM, sri...@ymail.com
wrote:
It’s
Official – Russia
Completely Bans GMOs
This email is free from viruses and
malware
because avast!
Antivirus
protection is active.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] The Uncle Tantra Tour Of Amsterdam
On 5/4/2014 9:08 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: Anyway, for those on this forum who seem to delight in thinking up weirdly perverse theories of What Turq/Barry/Uncle Tantra does for fun, this is the reality. Probably tamer than what you imagined, n'est-ce pas? So, you went for a walk in town. Nice. Did you get a chance to visit the Apple Store? It's supposed to be huge! Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin
The Jewish registration story turns out to have been what amounts to a hoax, Michael. A flyer with the announcement that Jews must register was distributed in one town in the Ukraine by three masked gunmen, but nobody has been able to determine where it originated--certainly not from Putin. In any case, Jews are not being required to register, so you can cross that off your list of grievances. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : If you a stupid enough or insane enough to believe that the banning of GMO's is proof of the ME when Putin is invading another country and requiring Jews to register as Jews then you need to go check into your local state mental hospital. On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wise President Putin To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:57 PM Ok Michael, you wanted proof, there you have it! The ME in spades. I did meditate twice this week, and I think that may have pushed us over the edge. And hey, I am not discounting, for a second, not for a second, the beneficial effect of Shikantaza meditation, which of course is a Japanese translation of a Chinese term for zazen introduced by Rujing, a monk of theCaodong school of Zen Buddhism. In Japan, it is associated with the Soto school. Sōtō Zen or the Sōtō school (曹洞宗 Sōtō-shū?) is the largest of the three traditional sects of Zen in Japanese Buddhism (the others being Rinzai and Ōbaku). It emphasizes Shikantaza, meditation with no objects, anchors, or content. The meditator strives to be aware of the stream of thoughts, allowing them to arise and pass away without interference. No, I am giving equal credit to both. Does this call for a Pappy's Van Winkle for celebration? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : It’s Official – Russia Completely Bans GMOs thank you President Putin and Prime Minister Medvedev. Jai Maharishi! Jai Raja Fagan! Jai Maharaja! Jai Guru Deva!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 11:44 AM, Bhairitu wrote: Syria isn't bombing you, Richard, but Monsanto *is. *So check your math. Syria bombing schools and killing children is more important to me that Monsanto selling GMOs in Russia. That's what I figure. * *On 05/04/2014 09:43 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 5/4/2014 11:11 AM, Bhairitu wrote: The US is unwise because companies like Monsanto have so many legislators in their pocket. They fool the people into believing that food prices are going to skyrocket just because of a little labeling on a package of food. The evil is amongst us and it is those who value profit over everything else including human life. The government of Syria drops barrel bombs on schools killing hundreds of students, but your enemy is Monsanto? Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Uncle Tantra Tour Of Amsterdam
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Yesterday was really fun. I got to be the tour guide on a person's first walking tour of Amsterdam. I have a certain affinity for that city, having first gone there to teach meditation for free during the Rama days, and having had a great time doing it. I even wrote a few of the stories in Road Trip Mind about my experiences there. I don't -- or didn't, until yesterday -- know the lady I was showing around town very well. She had studied briefly with the Rama guy, so was interested in my stories of hanging with him there, but she was primarily my best friend's friend, and I didn't know her very well. But it was like platonic kismet. We had tremendous fun, laughed a LOT, shared stories about experiences we had had and power places we had visited, sat in cafes, and just wandered around soaking up the vibe of the place. The best moment of the day, for me, will not mean much to anyone who has never been to Amsterdam, or who has never learned the joys of surfing dimensions. That was what we used to do in the desert with Rama, walk between worlds, from one dimension that was powerful and had its own distinct vibe or flavor, and then BAM! you're in another one -- so different that the change is palpable, and stops you in your tracks. That's what Amsterdam has always been like for me. It's as if the different neighborhoods have different enough vibes that I could tell you which one I was in if you had led me there blindfolded. (I even tested this once, and succeeded.) You walk across a bridge, and the reality on the other side of the bridge is so palpably different than the one you just emerged from that it stops you in your tracks. I didn't tell my tour guest this. We just wandered. But crossing one of the most palpable borderlines between dimensions there in Amsterdam, she just stopped what she was saying in mid-sentence, stopped in her tracks, and said, Did you feel THAT? Made my day. Then I explained my theory of Amsterdam as a multi-dimensional place of power to her, she nodded in agreement, and we had fun the rest of the day walking around and feeling the different dimensional shifts as we passed from reality to reality. Mucho fun. It's one thing to have a slightly paranormal experience yourself, and be comfortable enough at having had it that you can assume that it is at least on one level real. But it's nice to have someone have the exact same experience, and at the exact same border crossings, without any prompting from me. Makes me think I'm saner than some here like to portray me. Or not. Whatever. Anyway, for those on this forum who seem to delight in thinking up weirdly perverse theories of What Turq/Barry/Uncle Tantra does for fun, this is the reality. Probably tamer than what you imagined, n'est-ce pas? I don't know, sounds a little weird to me that you guys were surfing all over Amsterdam without a board or waves. As far as tame goes, it appears to be your middle name. Now feeling the different dimensional shifts as we passed from reality to reality sounds like some cheesy lyrics from some 60's song. Still, the important question: Did you hear any bicycle bells in your multi-dimensional wanderings? Did you see Rama?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Great oppurtunity for rethinking
Om; this memo, did it come from anybody who could actually affect change in the policy or is this more just “talking” around “the problem”? Just wondering who this came from, -Buck in the Dome sri...@ymail.com posts: Now that the introduction of Maharishi brahminism is getting a thoughtful reboot to make the participants more appreciative of Maharishi's knowledge, we have a great opportunity to rethink policies that reduce super-radiance by banning people from the domes for competing with the movement or visiting other spiritual guru types when they are not wavering their adherence to core values concerning the TM and TM Sidhis purity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 05/04/2014 10:41 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 5/4/2014 11:44 AM, Bhairitu wrote: Syria isn't bombing you, Richard, but Monsanto *is. *So check your math. Syria bombing schools and killing children is more important to me that Monsanto selling GMOs in Russia. That's what I figure. Who told you that Syrian government is bombing schools and killing children? The Mainstream Media? LOL! You should know better than to trust them. I've also heard the rebels are CIA backed which wouldn't surprise me since the CIA has been in business ever since it's inception to destabilize countries to profit American business interests. The food you eat and water you drink has glyphosates in it thanks to Monsanto. Other countries are running the GMO companies out because they don't want the US bombing them because Monsanto didn't get their seed fees. * *On 05/04/2014 09:43 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 5/4/2014 11:11 AM, Bhairitu wrote: The US is unwise because companies like Monsanto have so many legislators in their pocket. They fool the people into believing that food prices are going to skyrocket just because of a little labeling on a package of food. The evil is amongst us and it is those who value profit over everything else including human life. The government of Syria drops barrel bombs on schools killing hundreds of students, but your enemy is Monsanto? Go figure. http://www.avast.com/ This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
[FairfieldLife] Gotta Love It
Why I rejected religion and instead raised my son on Star Wars by Vishen Lakhiani May 4, 2014 I raised my son without religion. It was by design. I was raised a Hindu and my wife was raised Orthodox and Lutheran. But both of us slowly outgrew religion as we got older and instead adopted practices and beliefs consistent with our experiences in the real world. And so when Hayden was born we didn’t bother with religion at all. But we aren’t against it either. Because religion does have many beautiful aspects. And one of the biggest is that it teaches life lessons through stories. Problem is, it also conditions people to take those stories too literally. This leads to all sorts of dumb ideas that have held humanity backwards. Crimes against apostasy, treating gay people like outcasts, violation of women’s rights and even the act of not being able to enjoy a simple ham sandwich. Second, religion isn’t yet hackable. I can’t take the best of Christianity and combine it with the best of Islam and Hinduism. And to do so would cause awkward glares. There is much beauty in the teachings of Christ, the Sufism of Islam, the Bhagavad Gita or the Buddhist teachings of the Dalai Lama. Yet humanity has widely decided that religion should be absolutist. In short, pick one and stick to it for the rest of your life. Or worse – pass it on to your children through early indoctrination so they have to stick to one true path for the rest of their lives. Then repeat for generations. I want to break this pattern. So to avoid this with my son I decided to not teach my son religion at all. Hayden understands Newton’s Laws, the rotation of the planet, and gravity and electricity. At 6 he talks about atoms, DNA replication, Elon Musk’s rockets and admires Edison and the Mars Rover. Yet he has no idea what God is. This is by design. Simply because we, as a human race, don’t know what God is. And I refuse to pick ONE definition. Although I believe in God. I don’t think it’s write to teach this idea to a our child until he’s old enough to ask the right questions. It’s a fine line between education and indoctrination. So I believe that the only way to teach religion is to teach ALL religions. And I will. But only when Hayden is older and can make his own conclusions. But this left a dilemma. How then do I teach Hayden morality and lessons in life? I found the answer through Star Wars. Recently Hayden and I sat through 12 hours and all 6 Star Wars movies. It’s amazing how the mind of a 6 year old can get so engrossed with George Lucas’ fiction. But an unexpected benefit was the life lessons that I was able to share with Hayden via Star Wars. Here are the top 10 things that any parent can teach their child from Star Wars 1. Star Wars teaches you to Trust Yourself Luke: All right, I’ll give it a try. Yoda: No. Try not. Do… or do not. There is no try. [Using the Force, Yoda effortlessly frees the X-Wing from the bog] Luke: I don’t, I don’t believe it. Yoda: That is why you fail. The message here is to truly believe in yourself. Simplistic, I know. But Star Wars weaves the message into the story of Luke in such a beautiful way. We take Luke’s struggles and eventual success as parable for our own lives. 2. Star Wars teaches you to use the Power of Your Mind Hayden was fascinated by the “Force”. I explained it to him in Yoda’s words: “For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes.” ~ Yoda We used the metaphor of the force to teach Hayden mindfulness practices. I’d get him to close his eyes, relax and meditate. Sure he couldn’t last 90 seconds but its a start. But when Hayden fell ill, we used this same idea of the ‘force’ to teach him imagery therapy. He close his eyes and we’d ask him to visualize his lungs getting better. Hayden would do this every night before going to bed. There is a lot of evidence that imagery therapy accelerates healing. And that visualisation can help with goal setting. 3. Star Wars teaches you that We are all Connected This is very similar to Pantheism, what Richard Dawkins calls “Sexed up Atheism”. It’s the idea that all life is one and we’re all connected and that harming other lifeforms is not optimal. This is a great way to teach a child the Golden Rule. That we should not harm another because we’re all one. Even if you don’t buy the idea of oneness – at least it trains a child to understand that all life is special. It’s a great way to teach empathy and respect for the environment, plants and animals. Yoda: Ohhh. Great warrior. [laughs and shakes his head] Yoda: Wars not make one great. 4. Star Wars Teaches us to Trust our Intuition I believe in human intuition – the idea that we
[FairfieldLife] One for those few who can admit to having been Deadheads...
...or human. These are a few moments of one of the unsung heroes of the Grateful Dead finally being recognized for what he brought to their mystique. If you weren't ever there, don't even bother to read further...you won't get it, because you missed it entirely. For those of you who were, hopefully this should serve as a reminder of what one person who devotes himself to his art can actually *do* with his life. Will anyone remember *your* songs when you're dead? If the answer is No, the fault is only yours. If you ever understood the Grateful Dead, you will understand the feeling behind this awards presentation. If you never did, well what do you matter? :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDw5LFiwoK4 If you can't last through the full nine minutes, chances are you missed the entire period of time this presentation celebrates, and will have missed it for all time. Your loss, OH so literally.
[FairfieldLife] Re: One for those few who can admit to having been Deadheads...
And Barry, of course, is Oh-So-Superior to us poor benighted less-than-human losers who missed it. No hierarchy there, nope nope nope. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : ...or human. These are a few moments of one of the unsung heroes of the Grateful Dead finally being recognized for what he brought to their mystique. If you weren't ever there, don't even bother to read further...you won't get it, because you missed it entirely. For those of you who were, hopefully this should serve as a reminder of what one person who devotes himself to his art can actually *do* with his life. Will anyone remember *your* songs when you're dead? If the answer is No, the fault is only yours. If you ever understood the Grateful Dead, you will understand the feeling behind this awards presentation. If you never did, well what do you matter? :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDw5LFiwoK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDw5LFiwoK4 If you can't last through the full nine minutes, chances are you missed the entire period of time this presentation celebrates, and will have missed it for all time. Your loss, OH so literally.
[FairfieldLife] Karen Tate: New Interview on Buddha at the Gas Pump - 05/03/2014
blog updates from Buddha at the Gas Pump https://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/star.gif If you are not doing so already, please consider donating a minimum of $1 or $2 per month to help offset basic monthly expenses associated with hosting, MailChimp, etc. Of course, larger donations for other expenses are very much appreciated and needed. Donate button on http://batgap.com http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=43eed858a5e=16e07f16fe . published 05/03/2014 228. Karen Tate http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=c426952ff5e=16e07f16fe May 02, 2014 07:28 am | Rick As an independent scholar, speaker, radio show host, published author, sacred tour leader and social justice activist, Karen’s work for three decades has been inspired by her interests and passion for travel, comparative religions, ancient cultures, women’s her story and … Continue reading http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=c2f3b60c74e=16e07f16fe → The post 228. Karen Tate http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=4340ad5c17e=16e07f16fe appeared first on Buddha at the Gas Pump http://batgap.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=38228c2f4ce=16e07f16fe . http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/images/mime-type/mp3.png 228_karen_tate.mp3 http://batgap.us2.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=fb627b4907e=16e07f16fe 67.1 MB comments http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=f09a4f82dbe=16e07f16fe | read more http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=a943561804e=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=af436c06eee=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=670a05b5fce=16e07f16fe http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=d733e9dbb5e=16e07f16fe http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/frond.gif Elsewhere * http://batgap.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=fd797fab8ae=16e07f16fe Visit My Blog * http://us2.forward-to-friend.com/forward?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=13493441e3e=16e07f16fe Share This with a friend * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=1583da1bcce=16e07f16fe Follow me on Twitter * http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=67cdd783e3e=16e07f16fe RSS feed http://gallery.mailchimp.com/e709a491029b04e745834d34d/images/shim.gif | Regular announcement of new interviews posted at http://batgap.com. Buddha at the Gas Pump 1108 South B Street Fairfield, Iowa 52556 Add us to your address book http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/vcard?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=b0e5d0d53a Copyright (C) 2014 Buddha at the Gas Pump All rights reserved. http://www.mailchimp.com/monkey-rewards/?utm_source=freemium_newsletterutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=monkey_rewardsaid=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5afl=1 http://batgap.us2.list-manage.com/track/open.php?u=62b7e50ba8598f35e2edf91d5id=13493441e3e=16e07f16fe
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis - Sam Harris
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : I still think you're painting with too broad a brush when you use the term society. Some elements of society take the position you describe, but others do not. C: Seems like a reasonable objection. J: And the negative reaction to criticism from atheists has a great deal to do with its hostility quotient. Simple disagreement doesn't tend to provoke the same response as And you're stupid to believe this. C: Since Madalyn O'hair for whom this was true, I haven't seen this argument from any of the modern atheists. Which books have you read from them? I have seen them say that certain ideas like a 5,000 year old earth are stupid, but that is only because it really is. Indeed. But what does that make the person who believes it? Given the barrage of death threats and ad hominem attacks that vocal atheist face, I think you might be holding them to a higher standard than you are the religious side. Check out some of the debates with religious people with Sam Harris. You will see much of his time spent deflecting personal attacks during a supposed discussion of ideas. I think you are putting the blame for this on the atheist as if they somehow deserve this abuse. I have seen numerous debates where this is not the case that the atheist started the personal attacks. I have even experienced it here on FFL in discussions. Who fires the first shot is perhaps a debatable point but in any case being stupid is not an atheist talking point about a god belief. It is that it is an idea with poor reasons supporting it. Personally I don't believe people who believe in some god are stupid since I have met people I consider smarter than I am who do. But whenever I have had a discussion with them about it I have found their acknowledgement that they have chosen to take a leap of faith and acknowledge that this choice is beyond reason. I respect that. But many if not most atheists don't--they think it's stupid to make a choice beyond reason. I do not respect people who deny evolutionary science or try to get theological perspectives on creation into science curriculums in schools. J:Plus which, some of the most vocal atheists these days are also often quite ignorant about what religious belief entails. Not making the effort to acquaint oneself with what one is criticizing is perceived to be a function of intolerance, and rightly so, IMHO. Rather than facilitating full open discussion, it tends to slam the door on it. Those who most prominently speak for atheism need to get their act together, as far as I'm concerned (and speaking as a nonreligionist). C: One of the problems I learned from our Feser discussions is that atheists don't care about obscure ontological arguments about a god since it is the epistemological jumps that cause all the problems. The question is whether the atheists understand the ontological arguments well enough to dismiss their significance. The arguments are philosophical, of course, not empirical, which changes the role of epistemology in evaluating their validity. And Feser repeatedly makes the point that some of the most important terms and concepts of the Thomist arguments have been misunderstood by modern theologians and philosophers (e.g., the distinction between act and potency). As I pointed out, it is rare to find someone who does not include Aquinas in their classical version of god and this brings in the aspect of agency and interaction of god with the world and particularity with specific communications with mankind through certain books. That is the issue that concerns atheists. A lot of this and the paragraph that follows depends on what you mean by interaction, communications, personal agenda, etc.--specifically, the degree of anthropomorphism involved. The God of classical theism is the ultimate abstraction. According to Aquinas, describing God in human terms, like those I just quoted, can never be anything more than analogical. The distinction between God as a being and God as Beingness Itself is crucial. It absolutely rules out the white bearded dude (as well as the one God less attempt at rebuttal). And as I noted, it changes the role of epistemology. And once that jump has been made, the epistemological difference between an abstract spirit god who can still guide the hand of the writers (and translators) of the Bible and a fully decked out white bearded dude are insignificant. I know religious people make a big fuss about these distinctions and it rankles them to see what they think of as a more sophisticated version lumped in with versions they feel above intellectually. But once communication with a being with a personal agenda and ability to communicate that agenda to mankind specifically is claimed, these cherished distinctions are all a moot point. The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Gotta Love It
Yep, I agree it is really a wonderful secular theology of the Unified Field. Was a consequent part of the rising of the Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment. And Star Wars theology also turned the baby-boom generation itself who also watched StarWars along with their kids into the measurable spiritual but not religious demographic. May the Unified Field Be with You, -Buck in the Dome Why I rejected religion and instead raised my son on Star Wars by Vishen Lakhiani May 4, 2014 I raised my son without religion. It was by design. I was raised a Hindu and my wife was raised Orthodox and Lutheran. But both of us slowly outgrew religion as we got older and instead adopted practices and beliefs consistent with our experiences in the real world. And so when Hayden was born we didn’t bother with religion at all. But we aren’t against it either. Because religion does have many beautiful aspects. And one of the biggest is that it teaches life lessons through stories. Problem is, it also conditions people to take those stories too literally. This leads to all sorts of dumb ideas that have held humanity backwards. Crimes against apostasy, treating gay people like outcasts, violation of women’s rights and even the act of not being able to enjoy a simple ham sandwich. Second, religion isn’t yet hackable. I can’t take the best of Christianity and combine it with the best of Islam and Hinduism. And to do so would cause awkward glares. There is much beauty in the teachings of Christ, the Sufism of Islam, the Bhagavad Gita or the Buddhist teachings of the Dalai Lama. Yet humanity has widely decided that religion should be absolutist. In short, pick one and stick to it for the rest of your life. Or worse – pass it on to your children through early indoctrination so they have to stick to one true path for the rest of their lives. Then repeat for generations. I want to break this pattern. So to avoid this with my son I decided to not teach my son religion at all. Hayden understands Newton’s Laws, the rotation of the planet, and gravity and electricity. At 6 he talks about atoms, DNA replication, Elon Musk’s rockets and admires Edison and the Mars Rover. Yet he has no idea what God is. This is by design. Simply because we, as a human race, don’t know what God is. And I refuse to pick ONE definition. Although I believe in God. I don’t think it’s write to teach this idea to a our child until he’s old enough to ask the right questions. It’s a fine line between education and indoctrination. So I believe that the only way to teach religion is to teach ALL religions. And I will. But only when Hayden is older and can make his own conclusions. But this left a dilemma. How then do I teach Hayden morality and lessons in life? I found the answer through Star Wars. Recently Hayden and I sat through 12 hours and all 6 Star Wars movies. It’s amazing how the mind of a 6 year old can get so engrossed with George Lucas’ fiction. But an unexpected benefit was the life lessons that I was able to share with Hayden via Star Wars. Here are the top 10 things that any parent can teach their child from Star Wars 1. Star Wars teaches you to Trust Yourself Luke: All right, I’ll give it a try. Yoda: No. Try not. Do… or do not. There is no try. [Using the Force, Yoda effortlessly frees the X-Wing from the bog] Luke: I don’t, I don’t believe it. Yoda: That is why you fail. The message here is to truly believe in yourself. Simplistic, I know. But Star Wars weaves the message into the story of Luke in such a beautiful way. We take Luke’s struggles and eventual success as parable for our own lives. 2. Star Wars teaches you to use the Power of Your Mind Hayden was fascinated by the “Force”. I explained it to him in Yoda’s words: “For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes.” ~ Yoda We used the metaphor of the force to teach Hayden mindfulness practices. I’d get him to close his eyes, relax and meditate. Sure he couldn’t last 90 seconds but its a start. But when Hayden fell ill, we used this same idea of the ‘force’ to teach him imagery therapy. He close his eyes and we’d ask him to visualize his lungs getting better. Hayden would do this every night before going to bed. There is a lot of evidence that imagery therapy accelerates healing. And that visualisation can help with goal setting. 3. Star Wars teaches you that We are all Connected This is very similar to Pantheism, what Richard Dawkins calls “Sexed up Atheism”. It’s the idea that all life is one and we’re all connected and that harming other lifeforms is not optimal. This is a great way to teach a child the Golden Rule. That we should
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ending the Use of Dirty Fuels, Years of Living Dangerously...global warming
Maharishi: It can be. Vernon: But in this age where there is so much stress and tension? Maharishi: For one thing, there could be a national policy to have an hour's silence morning and evening. An hour of silence. All the busses, all the trains, everything stops. No movement. Aeroplanes don't take off. And then a national calm hour, morning and evening for the whole country. … It could be put on an automatic basis -some automatic timing devices. Everything should be purposely put off, everything stopped. And then the workers don't go to the factory at seven o;clock -only at nine o'clock, ten o'clock. They should have some life at home -in the freshness of the mornings. p-377-8 Conversations with Maharishi, Vol I. Vernon Katz MUM Press 2001 At home, in the workplace, at school. Meditating A third of a day everyday for everyone now. The world would be so much a better place for everyone in so many ways if people everywhere would just stop to take quiet time meditation. People spending more quiet time, spent in effective spiritual practice, is really the only antidote. We simply must break the materialism of the world now. -Buck in the Dome !Picturing Armageddon! http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27232523 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27232523 To really mediate this, we need much better public school education using and teaching all that is scientific towards a more invincible future. Like taking more quiet time employing effective transcending meditation into the educational design of our schools, employing quiet time meditation in to our workplaces, and taking meditation in to our homes and home-life. -Buck We need a revolution in the spiritual outlook of humanity right now. This is about public education. An Entrenched Materialism of our vast human race is the problem at core. The problem is fundamentally spiritual. We Must, End the Use of Dirty Fuels, Now. .. http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27008352 The problem is way too beyond just sustainability. We are talking survival. As a species. It is quite time for a change. Radical change. -Buck in the Dome The World Simply Must End the Use of Dirty Fuels, Rampant Materialism, Hyper-Industrial Production and the Over-consumption of the consumer economies of the world at too high a level by too many people to be sustainable is the problem. sharelong60 writes: What does the Syrian war, destruction of Indonesian parks and Texas have in common? The premiere of a new Showtime series, Years of Living Dangerously, unexpectedly on global warming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brvhCnYvxQQ Its 1 hour. . Om Shant . . .
RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
I’m going to read all of his books before even inviting him, and take notes as I go along, which I’ll share and discuss with you. Then I’ll carefully compose an invitation letter, which I’ll bounce off you also. So it may even be a year before the interview happens, if he agrees to one. But I would want it to be one that really did justice to the guy. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris Hey Rick, If you follow the threads from Lawson about Sam Harris you will gain some insight into Harris' world. In most debates and interviews he has to spend most of this time sorting out the misunderstandings about his position caused by people quoting people misrepresenting his ideas rather than his actual points in his books. Richard even posted a attribution to his book under statements from other people misrepresenting his positions, and this is very common all over the internet. If you get a chance to interview him your ability to state his actual points will be a huge rapport builder. And this seems like just an obvious point for any interview but controversial guys like him are more prone to people misrepresenting their ideas to make them look bad so he is extra touchy about this. Just focusing on his actual points that can be challenged for good reasons will make your interview a breath of fresh air for him I am sure.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
Hey Rick, Great plan. His books aren't too long I think you will motor through them pretty quickly. His first was his longest I think. I have no doubt you will do more than justice to him but will have POV he will enjoy interacting with. It will be important to have read the book that is coming out this Fall since that is going into topics of greatest interests to both of us I suspect. I think he will also recognize that you represent a chance to be heard by an entirely new market for him through your work with Batgap. I hope that will be enough of a draw fro him to take you up on your invitation. I am excited to any part of your feedback loop and will do what I can to live up to that trust. I'll have to reread his books myself to keep up with you! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : I’m going to read all of his books before even inviting him, and take notes as I go along, which I’ll share and discuss with you. Then I’ll carefully compose an invitation letter, which I’ll bounce off you also. So it may even be a year before the interview happens, if he agrees to one. But I would want it to be one that really did justice to the guy. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues@... Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris Hey Rick, If you follow the threads from Lawson about Sam Harris you will gain some insight into Harris' world. In most debates and interviews he has to spend most of this time sorting out the misunderstandings about his position caused by people quoting people misrepresenting his ideas rather than his actual points in his books. Richard even posted a attribution to his book under statements from other people misrepresenting his positions, and this is very common all over the internet. If you get a chance to interview him your ability to state his actual points will be a huge rapport builder. And this seems like just an obvious point for any interview but controversial guys like him are more prone to people misrepresenting their ideas to make them look bad so he is extra touchy about this. Just focusing on his actual points that can be challenged for good reasons will make your interview a breath of fresh air for him I am sure.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
One more thing Rick. The fact that you are reading his books already places you in an elite category of people he interacts with. So much of his time when he debates people is hacking through the forest of people who have not read what he has written, quoting people who have misconstrued what he wrote. You being in a position to actually discuss his ideas is huge. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : I’m going to read all of his books before even inviting him, and take notes as I go along, which I’ll share and discuss with you. Then I’ll carefully compose an invitation letter, which I’ll bounce off you also. So it may even be a year before the interview happens, if he agrees to one. But I would want it to be one that really did justice to the guy. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues@... Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris Hey Rick, If you follow the threads from Lawson about Sam Harris you will gain some insight into Harris' world. In most debates and interviews he has to spend most of this time sorting out the misunderstandings about his position caused by people quoting people misrepresenting his ideas rather than his actual points in his books. Richard even posted a attribution to his book under statements from other people misrepresenting his positions, and this is very common all over the internet. If you get a chance to interview him your ability to state his actual points will be a huge rapport builder. And this seems like just an obvious point for any interview but controversial guys like him are more prone to people misrepresenting their ideas to make them look bad so he is extra touchy about this. Just focusing on his actual points that can be challenged for good reasons will make your interview a breath of fresh air for him I am sure.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris
Jesus Christ, Rick, are you going to propose marriage to the guy, or just interview him! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rick@... wrote : I’m going to read all of his books before even inviting him, and take notes as I go along, which I’ll share and discuss with you. Then I’ll carefully compose an invitation letter, which I’ll bounce off you also. So it may even be a year before the interview happens, if he agrees to one. But I would want it to be one that really did justice to the guy. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of curtisdeltablues@... Sent: Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:59 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Note to Rick Conderning his interview with Sam Harris Hey Rick, If you follow the threads from Lawson about Sam Harris you will gain some insight into Harris' world. In most debates and interviews he has to spend most of this time sorting out the misunderstandings about his position caused by people quoting people misrepresenting his ideas rather than his actual points in his books. Richard even posted a attribution to his book under statements from other people misrepresenting his positions, and this is very common all over the internet. If you get a chance to interview him your ability to state his actual points will be a huge rapport builder. And this seems like just an obvious point for any interview but controversial guys like him are more prone to people misrepresenting their ideas to make them look bad so he is extra touchy about this. Just focusing on his actual points that can be challenged for good reasons will make your interview a breath of fresh air for him I am sure.
[FairfieldLife] Post Count Mon 05-May-14 00:15:06 UTC
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 05/03/14 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 05/10/14 00:00:00 208 messages as of (UTC) 05/04/14 23:56:37 43 Richard J. Williams 22 steve.sundur 22 Michael Jackson 22 LEnglish5 13 dhamiltony2k5 13 curtisdeltablues 13 awoelflebater 11 authfriend 10 srijau 9 TurquoiseBee 8 Share Long 4 anartaxius 3 jedi_spock 3 Bhairitu 2 nablusoss1008 2 jr_esq 2 cardemaister 2 Rick Archer 1 turquoiseb 1 salyavin808 1 s3raphita 1 John Carter Posters: 22 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: One for those few who can admit to having been Deadheads...
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote : And Barry, of course, is Oh-So-Superior to us poor benighted less-than-human losers who missed it. No hierarchy there, nope nope nope. He must be superior - he can walk through Amsterdam and visit multi-dimensional reality after reality and take his female visitor with him. The rest of us poor shmucks have to do mundane things like visit the Rijksmuseum, take a canal tour or wander along the Prinsengracht. As far as the Grateful Dead are concerned I chose to miss it, as I have written about before here. No loss there. My only question is: What songs has Bawee written and will we remember them after he is dead? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : ...or human. These are a few moments of one of the unsung heroes of the Grateful Dead finally being recognized for what he brought to their mystique. If you weren't ever there, don't even bother to read further...you won't get it, because you missed it entirely. For those of you who were, hopefully this should serve as a reminder of what one person who devotes himself to his art can actually *do* with his life. Will anyone remember *your* songs when you're dead? If the answer is No, the fault is only yours. If you ever understood the Grateful Dead, you will understand the feeling behind this awards presentation. If you never did, well what do you matter? :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDw5LFiwoK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDw5LFiwoK4 If you can't last through the full nine minutes, chances are you missed the entire period of time this presentation celebrates, and will have missed it for all time. Your loss, OH so literally.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Great oppurtunity for rethinking
to be more accurate, it is only the Brahmin pundits outside of India whose program is changing, they are going to get more knowledge of Maharishi's connections between modern science and Vedic science rather just a traditional Hindu perspective. I have no influence to change any policy myself Im giving an opinion.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Gotta Love It
On 5/4/2014 2:37 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Why I rejected religion and instead raised my son on Star Wars This is funny - Stars Wars is based on a belief in The Force. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 1:47 PM, Bhairitu wrote: The food you eat and water you drink has glyphosates... Addressing the important issues! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
[FairfieldLife] the great founder hero
of modern India and the Congress Party http://ofmi.org/gandhis-sexual-abuse-of-grandnieces/ http://ofmi.org/gandhis-sexual-abuse-of-grandnieces/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 1:47 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Who told you that Syrian government is bombing schools and killing children? BEIRUT, Lebanon — Organizers had worked until dawn hanging children’s artwork on the wall of an elementary school in Syria’s largest city: a bright green tank under a round yellow sun, a girl in pigtails defying a soldier’s bullets, a missile plunging from a warplane toward the school building... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/world/middleeast/syria.html?_r=0 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
You used to berate people who quoted the New York Times. Go figure... On 05/04/2014 08:03 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: On 5/4/2014 1:47 PM, Bhairitu wrote: Who told you that Syrian government is bombing schools and killing children? BEIRUT, Lebanon — Organizers had worked until dawn hanging children’s artwork on the wall of an elementary school in Syria’s largest city: a bright green tank under a round yellow sun, a girl in pigtails defying a soldier’s bullets, a missile plunging from a warplane toward the school building... http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/world/middleeast/syria.html?_r=0 http://www.avast.com/ This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus http://www.avast.com/ protection is active.
[FairfieldLife] NBA Playoffs [1 Attachment]
SAN ANTONIO --- Faced with the possibility of having a second straight season end with a Game 7 loss, the San Antonio Spurs played with emotion and let Tony Parker have some fun. http://www.newsobserver.com/parker-leads-spurs-past-mavs/ http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/05/04/3835511/parker-leads-spurs-past-mavs-in.html?sp=/99/103/122/ Dallas Mavericks - 96 San Antonio Spurs - 119 http://www.nba.com/spurs/playoffcentral Tony Parker --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Wise President Putin
On 5/4/2014 10:09 PM, Bhairitu wrote: You used to berate people who quoted the New York Times. Only if they were subscribers and paid for it. When we go to Starbucks it's either The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal. We like to see what the liberals and conservatives are saying, so I read the Times and Rita read the Journal. Nothing in either about Monsanto. Go figure. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] the great founder hero
On 5/4/2014 10:03 PM, sri...@ymail.com wrote: of modern India and the Congress Party http://ofmi.org/gandhis-sexual-abuse-of-grandnieces/ In the words of Ned Wynn, He's the classic backward Dravidian reactionary, sexually repressed, greedy, hypocritical, and a bald-faced liar. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/files/Odd_Side https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/files/TMO%20--%20the%20Odd%20Side/Sexy_Sadie.rtf --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking
Son that is a fool's proposition you are offering. It is not even worth taking the time to discuss with you. Your observations may be right but your thinking is wrong. You clearly are letting yourself be bound by some past thought forms lodge in your system and holding that as hostage against your self, your immortal Soul. Something like, you are 'putting your light under a hat'. You should drop this anti-nonsense before it is too late for you. I would kindly advise that you revisit FFL post #368621 Re: [FairfieldLife] : The Interpenetrating Subtle Spiritual System, MMY's Shakti. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/368621 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages/368621 A life well lived? Consider repenting your spiritual sins and then come back and stop calling him, Marshy, Old Goat, lying son of bitch and all the other names you have called him. It is not too late, -Buck in the Dome mjackson74 declares: I say this to you Steve and all my other critics here on FFL - If Marshy was enlightened, and if the TMO does much more good in the world than harm, I am willing to believe it, and I go on record that if those things can be proven to me then I will reverse every criticism I have ever leveled against the TMO and Marshy. I will stop calling him, Marshy, Old Goat, lying son of bitch and all the other names I have called him. I will become a spokesperson for the TMO, telling my story of how I became convinced that TM is the best thing since sliced bread. I will spearhead a push to get TM in ALL middle schools, high schools, colleges, universities and trade schools in the country and in all US protectorates around the globe. I will be part of a supreme effort to get TM in every single US military facility around the world, I will ask that TM and TMSP become part of every soldier, sailor, airman, marine and coast guard basic training and I will ask that Congress pass a law that every single congressman upon becoming elected must learn TM and TMSP. I would also have it further mandated that before ANY important vote on the house and senate floor the entire congress would meditate together for half an hour. Before Buck, Nabby, Feste, Sri and Steve spontaneously ascend into heaven over the idea of all of the above, thus far I see no proof nor even any credible evidence that Marshy was enlightened, nor that the TMO does more good than harm. Mostly I see and hear evidence of quite the opposite. Stories of Marshy's arrogance, elitist attitudes, Hindu fanaticism misuse and manipulation of people, and a great deal more of both personal experience and the collective experiences of friends, acquaintances and strangers that the TMO mainly tells us that all sorts of grand things are GONE happen, they are not happening now really for a variety of reasons but they are GONE happen, so keep giving generously and keep buying abundantly all our goods, service and nostrums so all this fabulous stuff will actually happen. Mostly the Marshy did and the TMO still today tells everyone to do it and buy it just cuz we say its real and true, not because it actually is true and real and good. They ask everyone to suspend their own common sense, their own wisdom and ability to discern truth and just believe whatever they are told by the TMO especially where what the TMO says today contradicts what was said yesterday. They want everyone just to believe and pay up even when the belief is obviously superstition such as hiding under your desks during a solar eclipse As to the claims and questionable research, I have to quote the wisdom of the Turq - If TM (and its adjunct programs) were any good, they wouldn't have to lie to sell them. On Sun, 5/4/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Great oppurtunity for rethinking To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 4, 2014, 1:27 PM ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Quite simply, if Maharishi's knowledge had been worth a shit to begin with, such policies and the attitudes they spring from could never have been born in the first place. Proximity to Marshy and length of time spent both administering the Movement and doing TMSP breeds arrogance, elitism, uncaring attitudes about common people, greed and a general display of poor behavior. Or, it may be that you are extrapolating your experience to the entire organization. Not to say that there aren't plenty of examples of such, but as usual, you are not interested in anything that could be described as fair and balanced. If it doesn't fit your agenda, you simply leave it out. at the introduction of Naharishi
