[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim and Rory back!

2007-12-05 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If you leave, I'd consider it a very great loss.
 Angela

Angela, I love You; You know where to find me :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim and Rory back!

2007-12-05 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Jim and Rory exceeded their posting limits (Jim � 55; Rory, 56).
  I�ve blocked their posting privileges and will restore them next
  Tuesday night.
  
 Welcome back, guys. Go forth and sin no more.

Thanks, Alex! My apologies, all, for overposting. I too relied on the 
evidently all-too-unreliable Yahoo advanced search, which repeatedly 
assured me I had posted only in the mid-20's, when the actual count 
must have been at least 25 higher by then. When I thought I was still 
safely under 35, I was actually at 56. It looks as though e-mail or 
hand tallies are the only ways to go here.

The forced time-out has shown me, though, that there really is no 
common ground here on FFL -- the fundamentally 
paradoxical Knowledge or Unknowing remaining when all beliefs are 
discarded, is consistently taken here by those who have not done this 
work, as simply another fundamentalist belief. Understandable, but 
evidently a waste of time to discuss further. Might as well stick to 
movies and martial arts and other subjects within the Matrix :-)

So could you unsubscribe me, please? So long, and thanks for all the 
fish!

*L*L*L*







[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim and Rory back!

2007-12-05 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I may be misjudging this, but I'm sensing a I'm taking my football 
and
 going home reaction in Rory's and Jim's desire to drop out because 
they
 were shut down for a week. Not that it's their football, but 
somehow they
 seem miffed. As if they were asked to take a timeout from the game 
and their
 response was, I'm quitting altogether. I didn't want to play this 
game
 anyway.
 
I can see how it would look that way, Rick, but with the time-out I 
just realized I am spending waaay too much time and attention here, 
and I just can't afford it. I tried unsubscribing via email with no 
result, and was hoping that actually being off the list would be a 
good way to quit this addiction cold-turkey. It has been an immense 
lot of fun, and I am really grateful to you and to everyone here, but 
the cost/benefit ratio has simply gotten too out of hand. 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would 
 rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my 
 Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental 
 Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman--
  Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; 
 deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation 
 and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness.

Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming 
tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely 
unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the 
absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting 
themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not 
even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and 
congratulating themselves on the trade.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
R: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming 
  tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely 
  unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the 
  absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting 
  themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright 
not 
  even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles --
 and 
  congratulating themselves on the trade.
  
  
 Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This time, Rory, you are not speaking from any kind of experience. 
Have you seen war?  You may be able to argue that most of us are 
living in a world of psychological misery of our own making because 
we are not enlightened, but we are still spoiled Americans with the 
money, leisure, and comfort to have spiritual concerns of some sort.  
 And again, just because we see something coming down the road 
doesn't mean we're afraid.  a

Anything out there is Disneyland, period. If it really matters, I 
remember war. I am still standing amidst the ashes, rubble, bones, 
and stink of an incinerated Germany and knowing nothingness, and 
utter humiliation and failure to protect my people. 

What's going on in here is far worse: because it has a sugar 
coating, allowing us to ignore a far more horrendous and insidious 
tyranny that robs us of utter freedom, doesn't allow us to have a 
truly clear thought, or perceive clearly that we aren't actually 
free. And again, I'm not speaking of mere political freedom. I'm 
speaking of a thought-control so subtle we aren't even aware that 
it's there or that we're fearfully chained by it, until it Dies.

We're afraid, all right. 







[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming 
  tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely 
  unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the 
  absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are 
subjecting 
  themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their 
birthright not 
  even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -
- and 
  congratulating themselves on the trade.
 
 
 
 Can't you just enjoy your own inner world without taking a shot at
 others Rory?  Seriously man, you have no idea what other people are
 experiencing in their lives.  I am happy for you that you have an
 internal state that you value.  So do I.
 
 Am I missing something here or are you trying to piss on my parade? 
 Who are you talking about here?

AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for 
you, feel free to ignore it, of course. 

FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish 
you nothing but the best.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OK, if you want to call the rubble, bones, and stink of an 
incinerated Germany Disneyland, you've got a point.  But I don't think 
that this is using language with any kind of precision.  

I do.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for 
  you, feel free to ignore it, of course. 
  
  FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish 
  you nothing but the best.
 
 
 Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened
 scamp aren't I?

 I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at 
that.

I'm not here to keep quiet about what I see, or to lie to you to make 
you feel better, if that's what you want. 

I'm here to tell the truth as simply and as clearly as I can -- I feel 
I owe you that much.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Its a comparison of *behaviors* in several people
 who have stepped up to the plate here on FFL and
 made statements about their supposed state of
 consciousness. My point was simply that one of
 them has done so with class, and two have done
 so without an ounce of class.

You mean, one of Us is not threatening your Buddhi-tyranny at the 
moment, and the other two of Us are? 

You're just like Vaj, aren't you? You want us all to keep quiet, to not 
rock the boat?

The only good Dead-guy is a dead Dead-guy! 

*lol*




[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

A: I understand your point about Disney Land.  It's the usual 
statement about it all being illusory.  Nevertheless, Rory, given the 
choice, what sort of life while still in the body would you choose? 
 Are there differences among the various stations in Disney Land?  
Does being tortured to death in a prison sound as lovely as dying 
fully conscious in good humor and surrounded by loved ones?  That is 
what I meant, and I suspect you knew it. 

R: Of course, Angela; all things being equal, I like a movie with a 
nice pat (fat) happy Hollywood ending, like all dumb Americans (I 
am not implying by these quotes that this term or idea is yours; I am 
merely laughing at us a little) :-)

But it's still only a movie, and to be bound to a nice movie is 
infinitely worse -- INFINITELY worse -- than being free in a nasty 
one. We can truly *enjoy* the nasty one if we are free, for freedom 
is bliss. We cannot truly *enjoy* the happy one if we are bound, for 
we are bound in fear.

A:And if you are so enlightened as to have no preference in the 
matter, then why are you not more compassionate towards those who do? 
a

R: Truly, I don't know how to say this any more clearly, I am not at 
all enlightened, as the word is apparently commonly understood. 
That's only an I-max movie too, as far as I can see. I am just a 
simple ordinary guy, or better yet, virtually nothing at all. I'm 
dead; that's all. :-)

And I know it probably doesn't seem like it, but it is in -- and out 
of -- love and laughter and compassion that I am being as truthful as 
I can in speaking out (where I have at least a remote chance of being 
heard) and pointing out the tyrannical conspiracy that lies around 
the heart of things -- just as you do.

Love You,

R.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes, excellent point.  I've never seen MMY actually communicate with 
anyone.  Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to 
have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across.  Maybe they 
just don't give a shit.  a

Not enlightened, just doing the best I can, with the narrow set of 
skills at my disposal :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 or to lie to you to make  you feel better, if that's what you 
want
 
 That's all I ever wanted from you Rory.  You don't call you don't
 write, and is it too much to ask for a box of chocolates once in a
 while?  You can keep the flowers I got allergies, now pull up a 
chair
 and eat, you look like a skeleton, what they don't have any kugel or
 borscht where you live? Eat and stop with all the fercockt 
meshuggina
 and stop acting like a zhlub or you'll never find a shadkhen to
 introduce you to a nice zaftig shiksa to shtup with yer shvantz, ya
 nudnik! I don't mean to kvetch.  Enough with the schmaltz Bubbala, 
I'm
 getting ver clempt.
 
 Now gay ga zinta hate, stop being such a fershtinkiner, just tone 
down
 the chutzpah bissel.  Fershtay?
 
 I hope that makes my position a bit clearer.

Yeah, yeah, Ma, I get it; don't rock the boat, go along to get along, 
you gotta be polite to get ahead in the world, when am I going to get 
a real job and make you proud. It's just not me. But thanks for the 
borscht :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed 
the post]

Didn't miss it; just didn't think you really wanted to converse :-)

 Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took 
decades
snip
 
 
 If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years

It's been 25 years since I saw that 'states' were completely 
irrelevant.

 and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his
 consciousness to simple civil effective communication.

It is civil and effective for those who are not resisting; for those 
who still identify with the Tyrannical Buddhi, it is seen quite 
rightly as an Act of War :-)
 
 [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that 
problem.]

Here's a little hint from me to you: If you are still resisting Us, 
then did you really let Guru Dev and MMY finish the job? If you 
didn't, are you really in any position to judge which of Us is more 
effective at liberating you? 

Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff

Nablusos:  A couple of fellows are shaking their anti-TM boat where 
it used 
 to 
  be so comfy. No wonder they are upset. :-)
 
 jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

Unfortunately not upset enough to capsize the boat into the ocean 
 though...


Ha! Just what I was thinking. 

I love how the flea sits on the elephant's rump, thinking it can 
control the elephant :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

R: Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-)
 
 
 Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that
 your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate
 people.   GUFFAW! 

No, not at all. I repeat: Apparently we are *all* still failing 
miserably :-)


As far as I can see, people either liberate themselves or they stay 
in bondage. 

Death or cake? Oooh, cake, please! 

*lol*




[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  But it's still only a movie, and to be bound to a nice movie is 
  infinitely worse -- INFINITELY worse -- than being free in a nasty 
  one. We can truly *enjoy* the nasty one if we are free, for freedom 
  is bliss. We cannot truly *enjoy* the happy one if we are bound, 
for 
  we are bound in fear.
 
 I dunno... I'm pondering the pre- and post- Dark Night of the Soul
 states, and the gap between them just isn't striking me as infinite.
 Probably because in both states, I'm still largely preoccupied with
 disliking parts of the movie. Same shit, different day, except now
 there's some internal spaciousness helping to maintain a degree of
 freeing dissociation from the story.

Yeah, until we have the freeing dissociation, we can't really turn 
around and see the story as love-light-bliss. 

Death isn't an instant fix to everything, but it's only after Death 
that the real spiritual work really *begins* -- the alchemizing of 
all that old shit into gold.

:-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ha! Just what I was thinking. 
  
  I love how the flea sits on the elephant's rump, thinking it can 
  control the elephant :-)
 
 
 I sense some headway being made.  In this analogy I guess people 
like
 me are the flea and you guys are the elephant's ass right?

R: Ha! No, Curtis, I know I am both, but it wasn't until I saw the 
elephant's ass that I realized that the I that I had thought I was, 
was only a flea.

YMMV, of course; I really can't speak for you.

C: It is the assumption of superiority that is drawing the fire, not 
that
 you are rocking anyone's boat. 

R: Actually, I am not assuming any superiority *over you*, Curtis; I 
never have. I know that you and I are utterly the same. 

I am asserting superiority *over Tyrannical Buddhi*. If you are 
reading my lines as put-downs of You, I suspect it is because you are 
momentarily identifying with Tyrannical Buddhi. (Or of course it 
could simply be because I am an arrogant asshole :-) )

C: I am interested up to a point in
 reading about your experiences. But I have my own take on what is
 going on with your experiences. My take is of little value to you 
but
 it has value to me. But what I also get from your posts is you
 describing your relationship to me in unnecessarily hierarchical
 terms. I don't doubt that you believe this, and truthfully I think 
my
 perspective on life is better at least for me.  But that doesn't
 mean that I have to sprinkle my communications with little bombs 
about
 how I view your experiences to put you down.  I'm glad you feel all
 enlightened up.  Good for you.  But my enlightenment is just as
 valuable to me although we think of this term in radically 
different ways.

R: Where did I say it wasn't, Curtis, and where for that matter did I 
say you weren't enlightened ?
 
C: It isn't the fact that you guys think you have attained a higher 
state
 that causes communication trouble for you here, I dig that part, it 
is
 interesting.  It is a need to use that experience as a form of
 oneupsmanship. 

R: The only one-upmanship I am asserting is over *Tyrannical Buddhi*, 
not over You.

C: I think it may come from your belief that you have the
 truth rather than a POV to share.  I'll accept your POV as
 entertaining, but you can't sell it as more than that to other 
people
 unless they want to buy in, which apparently some do.  It just wont
 work.  This is a pretty elementary communication principle being
 violated here.

R: That is quite correct. I am not here just to shoot the shit and 
compare different realities. I realize this may look fundamentalist 
to you, but BTDT, and it's a waste of time. There is no real 
conversing with Tyrannical Buddhi, it only wants to lure Us into its 
mood-making stuporous haze with its logic and reasonableness.
 
C: I also think that people are taking time to respond in detail to 
how
 your communication comes across because you do have a genuine
 contribution.  I for one am happy to hear about TMers who feel they
 have reached higher states with TM.  


R: Not a TMer, and any higher states I reached were a complete 
fool's paradise. They were only useful in showing me what I *didn't* 
want -- which on reflection, was absolutely good enough, at that. 
Negative information is still information :-)

C: Because I have a different take
 on what these states mean I am completely comfortable with my 
decision
 to opt out of this path and still give your experiences a careful
 listen.  But human to human our internal experience of our selves or
 Selves if you prefer is of zero value outside the communications we
 use to describe them.  The responsibility for how we are coming 
across
 is our own.  I often need feedback to correct how I am coming across
 here.  Now it may be that you really don't give a shit as Angela
 proposed.  I am inviting you to care.  Mr. Gobachov tear down that
 wall! ZA VAS ! 

R: No wall whatsoever here, Curtis, except between me and Tyrannical 
Buddhi, and I can't help that. It wants to be the boss, and it's 
simply not smart enough for that :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Cool, thanks for responding Rory.  I feel heard and I hope you do too.

I love you, man. I wasn't kidding or making a put-down when I said I 
feel moved by your great heart. It's awesome.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
 On Nov 27, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Rory Goff wrote:
 
  You want us all to keep quiet, to not
  rock the boat?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Do I?
 
 Don't stop your klesha-dance on my behalf.

Nice ambiguity. Do you mean dance *of* the kleshas or dance *on* the 
kleshas, or is there a difference?

Are you implying that those are the only two choices, quiet or kleshas?

If there is a third choice, how would you know it?




[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 If you're really cogitating that much, I'd recommend ice-packs to 
the  
 skull and call me in the morning.
 
 Eat meat and potatoes in heavy gravy now or on arising.

Me? No. I just liked your term klesha-dance and was open to hearing 
more of your backstory.










[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  If you're really cogitating that much, I'd recommend ice-packs to 
 the  
  skull and call me in the morning.
  
  Eat meat and potatoes in heavy gravy now or on arising.
 
 Me? No. I just liked your term klesha-dance and was open to hearing 
 more of your backstory.

JOOC, have you ever used ice-packs to the skull and eaten meat and 
potatoes in heavy gravy to keep yourself from thinking too much?

What would have happened if you had let the thinking run its course, I 
wonder?




[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting stats

2007-11-27 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   If you're really cogitating that much, I'd recommend ice-packs 
to 
  the  
   skull and call me in the morning.
   
   Eat meat and potatoes in heavy gravy now or on arising.
  
  Me? No. I just liked your term klesha-dance and was open to 
hearing 
  more of your backstory.
 
 JOOC, have you ever used ice-packs to the skull and eaten meat and 
 potatoes in heavy gravy to keep yourself from thinking too much?
 
 What would have happened if you had let the thinking run its 
course, I 
 wonder?

... I suspect we might find that kleshas and quiet are concepts 
built of nothing -- but that believing in them serves nicely to keep 
the meaninglessness of Death away, and thus to keep one imprisoned by 
the Tyrannical Buddhi, but of course I could be Dead wrong.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Nice story.

You just said, To me, anything with words is a story. Even OM / AUM 
has its story ---
and is a story. If you take your stories so serious as to believe them
to be something else, then, as you please.

If so, typing Nice story is redundant and meaningless, as it's 
equally applicable to all conversation, isn't it?

So what did you really mean by the phrase? Are you trying to dismiss 
my observations of our interactions *within the story*? 

It just sounds to me like more of your snidely dishonest advaita 
shuffle, anything to avoid real introspection and Self-Work. 








[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 It should be, IMO. How you and Curtis manage the patience to wade  
 through their insufferably boring tracts is truly  beyond me.
 
 Sal

Go Know yourself, Sal -- and I don't mean just in the Biblical sense :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Nailing someone besides yourself is fun, too,  but I suspect that 
hasn't happened for you 
 for quite some time, even though your obvious creative ability could 
put someone else in 
 simultaneous ecstasy with you - a good thing.

Sweet; thank you!

Not to do the advaita shuffle, or anything, but I am not at all 
convinced that there *is* someone besides yourself, or myself, or 
whatever. How could we ever know?




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
 
  By these exchanges I see that Davies' point is either
  trivial, not clear or no point at all!
 
 That's definitely what you'd see in what hugheshugo
 says. And you're right, it's obviously not clear to
 either of you.

I am certainly not surprised that it's clear to you, Judy, as you 
obviously Understand that (y)our consciousness contains it all, but I 
must say I am a little surprised that another Dead guy claims that 
he doesn't get the self-evident bigger picture which Davies' work 
so clearly points to. 

Maybe Dr. Pete has forgotten what the world looks like to those who 
ain't No-one yet?

 :-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I am certainly not surprised that it's clear to you, Judy, as you 
 obviously Understand that (y)our consciousness contains it all, but I 
 must say I am a little surprised that another Dead guy claims that 
 he doesn't get the self-evident bigger picture which Davies' work 
 so clearly points to. 
 
 Maybe Dr. Pete has forgotten what the world looks like to those who 
 ain't No-one yet?
 
  :-)

Excuse me, Dr. Pete; I mean to say, maybe you have forgotten what the 
world looks like to those who don't know they are No-one yet?

Questioning the hitherto-unquestioned assumption that there is an 
external order to which the Universe conforms, is *huge*. IMO it shows 
a consciousness beginning to actually become aware of itself and its 
own participatory role in universe-manifestation. 



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Excuse me, Dr. Pete; I mean to say, maybe you have forgotten what 
the 
 world looks like to those who don't know they are No-one yet?
 
 Questioning the hitherto-unquestioned assumption that there is an 
 external order to which the Universe conforms, is *huge*. IMO it 
shows 
 a consciousness beginning to actually become aware of itself and its 
 own participatory role in universe-manifestation.

And I don't mean this in a purely intellectual way; his words *actually 
tickled and stirred Me* bodily. He is becoming a knower of Me, of That-
Self.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 When you say, actually tickled and stirred Me, don't you mean 
with 
 a particular sensation of bliss? The reason I ask is that I find it 
 quite easy sometimes to put my attention on a particular individual 
 and feel their vibrations regardless of their physical proximity, 
 and so can be stirred by their vibrations, which is not necessarily 
 an indication that the person is becoming a knower of Self (at 
least 
 not very quickly-lol). However, when someone has released 
themselves 
 into that which is universal, that which is enlightened, their 
 vibrations take on a blissy quality. I don't know how else to 
 describe it.

Yes, I can relate to that, Jim. A Knower of the Self *is* my Self. 

At present most people look/feel like love/light/bliss-points in me, 
which if drawn to do so I either pay attention to and watch 
them warm up or lighten up or quicken (as is usually the case 
nowadays), or else incarnate and experience from the inside out, if 
need be (which is actually quite seldom nowadays), and in either case 
only to whatever degree is appropriate. 

In Davies' case, he was *not* a bliss-point at all; he was right from 
the start an entire field, a significant portion of me. Not my Self, 
exactly, but ... definitely tickling in that vicinity *lol*



[FairfieldLife] Re: TurquoiseB dominates Straw Man Combat____was_Shotokan dominates Martial Arts

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  You just don't understand martial arts Turq.
  
  You have no idea of the bone shattering power, or organ collapsing 
  danger a Shotokan fighter is trained to give on the first strike.
 
 Wanna bet which of us has a higher belt rant in
 Shotokan karate?  

I don't know about Shotokan, but I'd say you guys are about equally 
tied in higher-belt rants :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Interesting observations-- I don't really get what you mean when you 
 say  incarnate and experience from the inside out, if need be 
 (which is quite seldom these days) Can you be a little bit more 
 specific?

Sorry; I was *wondering* if that sentence construction might not be all 
that clear. Simply meant incarnating or manifesting through (the 
various bodies of) another, coming up as a different wave of our ocean 
so to speak, to experience something of how another experiences Life -- 
also useful for tickling the bliss-points in another's physiology, to 
help facilitate their moving through their painful (mis)interpretations 
of that bliss, so we can meet and enjoy the bliss together. I think 
Patanjali 3:37 describes this briefly. All very much like what you were 
describing, I believe.

:-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Nice POV.

I had a *lot* of fun with it, thanks :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Good. 
 
 (And the rage part was a nice touch of inspired irony.)

Nice story.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not 
condemning 
 you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your 
 BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy.


Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately 
to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as 
a role model, which is what he thinks you want! 

You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but 
FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still 
thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices 
in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That 
everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take 
for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death 
and boredom and so on...






[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
   Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not 
  condemning 
   you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on 
 your 
   BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy.
  
  
  Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying 
 desperately 
  to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to 
 you as 
  a role model, which is what he thinks you want! 
  
  You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I 
admit, 
 but 
  FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still 
  thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic 
 choices 
  in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. 
 That 
  everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially 
 take 
  for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as 
 Death 
  and boredom and so on...
 
 Yes, scared to death of it. I know-- its weird and awful at the 
same 
 time. Such a horrible blasphemy upon such a person's inner nature. 
 Truly a black spot on the soul. I cannot concieve of the blindness 
 that creates this condition. 
 
 I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you-
 better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our 
 animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? 
Oh 
 my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why 
 don'cha???

*lol* Well, I just see it as what discrimination DOES -- it is always 
deciding which alternative is better. That's its job. It applies 
itself to everything. And when the unrecognized Self identifies with 
it and is obscured by it, there is no appreciation of the underlying 
perfect-USness everywhere, and so it creates nothing but misery. In 
fact it thrives on it, fights for it, as it feels it would have no 
reason to live if everything really IS perfect. The old great 
servant, lousy master routine. Gotta love it! :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
jflanegi@ 
   wrote:
Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not 
   condemning 
you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you 
 on 
  your 
BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy.
   
   
   Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying 
  desperately 
   to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to 
  you as 
   a role model, which is what he thinks you want! 
 
 and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!!

True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, 
many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice 
versa :-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.

2007-11-26 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying 
   desperately 
to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to 
   you as 
a role model, which is what he thinks you want! 
  
J: and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!!
 
 True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, 
 many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice 
 versa :-)

You watch; right now those Buddhis are interpreting *even this* 
conversation as elitist, special, attention-grabbing, unconvincingly 
mood-makey, etc. etc. etc. 

They *have to* or *they will Die* .. and identified-Buddhi is not at 
all psyched about the prospect of being dethroned, not until it 
actually comprehends the unceasing misery of identification with 
aversion-desire/spacetime.

Said it before, I'll say it again: Life is wasted on the so-called 
Living :-)






[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff

 TomT:
 From Jean Klein Transmission of the Flame page 65 snip
 Understanding, being the understanding, is enlightenment

YES -- Understanding is probably a better word than Knowledge as 
Now we both figuratively and literally Under-stand ourSelf, and it is 
truly and simply a whole-body BEing. 

It is the rock-solid bottom of the inquiry, Under-standing itSelf :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 As I understand his point, he's asking why there should
 be higher-order explanations of ontological facts in
 the first place. (That the explanations evolve as we
 learn more is beside the point.)
 
 Or to put it another way, why *don't* we reify the
 laws of physics?
 
 It's similar to the old question, Why is there something
 rather than nothing? except that Davies's question is,
 Why is there something orderly rather than something
 random?
 
 We take the fact that the universe is apparently orderly
 as a given; but how is that different from taking the
 existence of God as a given?
 
 The only real difference is that religionists label the
 big question mark God, whereas science doesn't put a
 label on it.
 
 But that doesn't make the question disappear. Davies
 finds it odd that all of science rests on that
 unanswered question.

I wrote a paper on this very subject while working on my Master's at 
Harvard Divinity School... That was in 1980 or so, right after 
constant immersion in the omnipresent gold light/angels/deities/blah-
blah-blah of Unity and immediately followed by 2 years of Dark 
Night. 

I wonder if there was a correlation *there*?

*lol*




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wrote a paper on this very subject while working on my Master's at 
 Harvard Divinity School... That was in 1980 or so, right after 
 constant immersion in the omnipresent gold light/angels/deities/blah-
 blah-blah of Unity and immediately followed by 2 years of Dark 
 Night. 
 
 I wonder if there was a correlation *there*?
 
 *lol*

(Dis/claimer to any and all of mySelf: Please, please, please -- plunge 
into the Dark, if that is where (y)our inquiry takes us! The True Dark 
is not bad -- or good for that matter -- it is not even Dark 
because of an absence of Light. It is Dark because it is *faster than 
light* -- outside of the bubble of illusory spacetime. That where 
ourSelf lies, Truly :-) )



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
 wrote:
   I wrote a paper on this very subject while working on my 
 Master's at 
   Harvard Divinity School... That was in 1980 or so, right after 
   constant immersion in the omnipresent gold 
 light/angels/deities/blah-
   blah-blah of Unity and immediately followed by 2 years of 
Dark 
   Night. 
   
   I wonder if there was a correlation *there*?
   
   *lol*
  
  (Dis/claimer to any and all of mySelf: Please, please, please -- 
 plunge 
  into the Dark, if that is where (y)our inquiry takes us! The True 
 Dark 
  is not bad -- or good for that matter -- it is not even Dark 
  because of an absence of Light. It is Dark because it is *faster 
 than 
  light* -- outside of the bubble of illusory spacetime. That where 
  ourSelf lies, Truly :-) )
 
 What an interesting statement, that of Dark being faster than 
 light...that certainly rings true when evaluating the Dark Night 
 experience, but how then do we integrate such an experience? 
Perhaps 
 the Dark Night experience is that of having transcended space time 
 intuitively, recognizing that transcendence as Reality, yet still 
 hanging on to the now empty husk of false identity? Then after a 
 long time of trying to miserably reanimate the false identity of 
 concepts and stories, we give up, and gracefully, magically 
 integrate ourselves into the Dark, now recognizing how to function 
 again in space time, while being true to our Selves.

Yes, nicely put (if I do say so mySelf *lol*); the omnipresent gold-
light/angels/deities/etc. would be the subjective (and by that I 
mean real) equivalent of attaining lightspeed and essential 
identity with the laws of nature; with further acceleration the 
inevitable onset of the Dark if resisted (and it usually is *lol*) 
with belief in stories, concepts, etc. brings suffering, as all 
resistance = suffering. Kind of like trying to crawl back into the 
spacetime womb, resisting one's own birth. But afterwards, we 
can program the particles and superimpose whatever story of duality 
they/we like on the emptiful-indescribable, but without that bind of 
identifying belief and consequent resistance, there is no suffering.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yes, nicely put (if I do say so mySelf *lol*); the omnipresent gold-
 light/angels/deities/etc. would be the subjective (and by that I 
 mean real) equivalent of attaining lightspeed and essential 
 identity with the laws of nature; with further acceleration the 
 inevitable onset of the Dark if resisted (and it usually is *lol*) 
 with belief in stories, concepts, etc. brings suffering, as all 
 resistance = suffering. Kind of like trying to crawl back into the 
 spacetime womb, resisting one's own birth. But afterwards, we 
 can program the particles and superimpose whatever story of duality 
 they/we like on the emptiful-indescribable, but without that bind of 
 identifying belief and consequent resistance, there is no suffering.

IOW, because we know we are nothing we can give our particles 
ANYthing they desire (desire = of the star(s); particular).

Our simple, ordinary thoughts are just thoughts to us, but they are 
concrete, physical, divine mandates to those particles/gods within us 
to whom we are God, and who make up our space-time physiology or body-
mind. 

By honestly attuning to our desire-particles, bestowing grace on them, 
and listening to their feedback, and adjusting our subsequent grace-
bestowals to meet their needs, we comb or align them into harmony with 
us, into integrity, converting the resistant or demonic aspects of 
ourselves into coherent or angelic polarity. 

Thereafter as we fluctuate from nothing or boundlessness 
into particular or spacetime bodymind, our bodymind now projects the 
paradise we have programmed...as it was always meant to do, and has 
been faithfully doing, ab principio *lol*



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 Oh, goodie. Story time. Tell us the one again about the infinitely
 radiant Pride. Ot the ones where particlees collide in this big
 chamber and go boom boom! Or one about dragons. I love the ones
 about dragons! 

It looks as if you are more than capable of generating your own :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
 
  
  
  Oh, goodie. Story time. Tell us the one again about the infinitely
  radiant Pride. Ot the ones where particlees collide in this big
  chamber and go boom boom! Or one about dragons. I love the ones
  about dragons! 
 
 It looks as if you are more than capable of generating your own :-)

...by the bye, OMGAkashaNewMonitor, I seem to remember that you 
recently claimed you found me boring and didn't wish any further 
contact with me. Have you changed your policy, or was that or this 
but a momentary lapse, a verbal eructation as it were, indicative of 
a smidgen of mental indigestion, a bit of undigested beef? 

In any case, not to appear elitist or exclusive or anything, but it's 
a pretty fair bet that what I have recently been discussing with Jim 
will be of no real use to any who haven't yet embraced their Death in 
the perfection of the Here-Now. 

I could be wrong of course, but I don't think one can truly 
appreciate a star-particle point-self and its potential as 
emptifulness collapsed unless and until one has actually surrendered  
into emptiful Nothing. The Unsurrendered/Unrealized would tend to see 
it as just a fairy tale.

End of story! *lol*





[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 It occurred to me while writing my previous reply that it must 
sound 
 like quite a foreign language to some. Nonetheless to be able to 
 clarify and express elements of consciousness is too precious an 
 opportunity to be concerned about how it might look to someone else.

Yes -- I would write to you privately, but I do have a clear feeling 
these dialogues are actually useful to others of Us as well.

 As for those who ridicule such dialogues, it occurs to me that if 
 they find themselves fortunate enough to experience the death of 
all 
 illusion, their previous ridicule might be a somewhat humbling and 
 embarrassing memory.

*lol* Couldn't say, Jim, but God knows, I remain somewhat humbled 
and embarrassed by a good deal of my own thoughtless and immature 
behavior, both before and for some time after Death. 

I am constantly astonished at the sweet forgiving depths of  
understanding, love and grace in Him/Her, the Deep-Me against whom 
as a particle I so often believed I was rebelling:-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff

OK, let's compare and contrast the quality of this first post:

 Oh, goodie. Story time. Tell us the one again about the 
infinitely
radiant Pride. Ot the ones where particlees collide in this 
big
chamber and go boom boom! Or one about dragons. I love the 
ones
about dragons! 


With the attempt at philosophical justification with the follow up:

 To me, anything with words is a story. Even OM / AUM has its story -
--
 and is a story. If you take your stories so serious as to believe 
them
 to be something else, then, as you please.


...While ignoring my final line, below:

 
  End of story! *lol*


I repeat, End of story! *lol*

 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Taking Science on Faith

2007-11-25 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 Actually, as I recall, perhaps incorrectly, that you wished I would
 never use your name again. 

I replied to your post in which you had said I and others are making 
claims to enlightenment, or higher states of consciousness, or some 
such sweeping inaccuracy. (Again, even several years ago when I had 
said, I am enlightened, I also added, and so are you. This has 
always been my thrust here; I have not claimed enlightenment as a 
better-than-thou state, as you appeared to imply.) When I responded 
to your defamation, asking you to leave me out of it -- I can make 
no claims to anything but to having Died, I believe you replied to 
the effect that I bored you and you didn't particularly wish to 
converse. I said that we were in agreement then, and if you could 
refrain from bringing my name up here again, I could probably refrain 
from boring you further. 

I have tried to honor your wish. I did not
 realize you perhaps meant I could not post on things that strike my
 fancy. 

I perhaps incorrectly assumed that your not wishing to converse with 
me would actually include your not responding to my posts. 

Particulary since they are non-created by a  non-doer.

Do you know how snide this sounds? This is a category error, 
an advaita shuffle. Within the movie, I exist, I create, I destroy, 
I feel, and I am (sometimes) deadly serious about those who resist 
me, particularly with this type of evasive and snarky dishonesty.  

  Have you changed your policy,
 
 Diapers, policies and POVs are meant to be changed. 

Feel free to re-open the lines of conversation if and when you decide 
to get real about your feelings, instead of using Monist 
slipperiness as an excuse for snide remarks, which are in turn AFAI 
can see apparently an excuse for denied rage. Not too surprising in 
view of your past-stated belief that Brahman despite its wholeness 
must somehow exclude the quality of rage :-)

And yes, I *do* realize I am as always only talking to mySelf!

At the moment, I am playing St. George, lovingly spearing a 
particularly slippery dragon-coil of my DNA, a piece that has 
fearfully and hatefully eluded my attention until Now. There's 
the dragon-story you asked for!

Nailing me and loving it! :-)

*lol*



[FairfieldLife] Re: The Crone and Crystal-Month

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 FWIW, today is the start of Winter in the Rorian Taurus-Equinox 
(T-
 E) Calendar, when the Sun enters T-E Capricorn. This is the month 
of 
 the Indigo Mason, or Crone: Kali, Cailleach, Loki -- Saturn as 
Binah 
 the Sterile Mother -- she is the Critic, the Stonecutter, chipping 
 away all identification with the unTrue and unReal. She is Death to 
 all that is impermanent.
 
 These first 2.5 days of Crystal-Month are especially interesting, 
 when her mate the Violet Alchemist (Jupiter, ruler of T-E Aquarius) 
 slays his father, the Golden Solar Creator (Baeli-Braehim), by 
 blinding his right eye: as the Sun is the right eye of the Cosmic 
 Person, the death of the sun is the transcendence of the right eye, 
 or masculine pingala-current. This story finds echos in Loki's 
 instigation of the slaying of Baldur the Beautiful with the spear 
of 
 mistletoe, Lug's slaying of Balor of the Baleful Eye, St. George 
 (Gae-ourgi, earth-worker, but more accurately Molten-metal-
 worker) slaying the fiery dragon, and probably Odysseus's blinding 
 of the Cyclops and Samson (Shamash-On, Sun-God)'s blinding and 
 captivity in the mill of the North (the heavens turning about the 
 pole star).
 
 For us personally, it is a commemoration of the slaying of our 
 radiant Brahmic-ego, or Solar Angel, for its excessive pride. Not 
 surprising, I guess, that this issue has been lively for us again 
of 
 late ...
 

Maybe I should have made that clearer -- I am not
claiming to have vanquished *my* excessive pride; only that it has
been an issue of late, and I didn't even realize I was playing out
the drama of my own calendar-system!

And anyhow, the Brahmic-Solar-ego descends into the Northern
Underworld in a fortnight, and is reborn again around Dec. 24-25, and
so on and so on...nothing lasts forever, not even Death :-)





[FairfieldLife] Invincibility sucks (was Re: IMO from this point on the USA went downhill)

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  Who can say? Not I. But I do regret that America wound
  up so pussywhipped by fear and by the military-indus-
  trial complex for 60 years that they couldn't afford
  to provide the decent standard of living for its 
  people that I see in European nations that didn't
  have to spend that much to keep up with the Joneses.

 authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (Interesting that you refer to the military-industrial
 complex as pussies.)

I was struck by this one too. Must be that vagina dentata again.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I remain open to the claim from some folks that they
 no longer perceive a difference between shit and
 shinola -- both are just particles of their Self. 
 It's possible, and more power to 'em if they really do
 perceive that way. But to be honest I don't want to
 smell their shoes after they shine them.  :-)

I think Judy has pointed out could not function in this world without 
*some* discrimination; after Death it simply is not predominant, more 
like a fine, multi-colored oil-layer of variety on an ocean of 
ThatSelf. Call it leshavidya if you like, or simply keeping one eye 
on the movie :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: The Crone and Crystal-Month

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
  wrote:
  
   FWIW, today is the start of Winter in the Rorian Taurus-
Equinox 
  (T-
   E) Calendar, when the Sun enters T-E Capricorn. This is the 
month 
  of 
   the Indigo Mason, or Crone: Kali, Cailleach, Loki -- Saturn as 
  Binah 
   the Sterile Mother -- she is the Critic, the Stonecutter, 
chipping 
   away all identification with the unTrue and unReal. She is 
Death to 
   all that is impermanent.
   
   These first 2.5 days of Crystal-Month are especially 
interesting, 
   when her mate the Violet Alchemist (Jupiter, ruler of T-E 
Aquarius) 
   slays his father, the Golden Solar Creator (Baeli-Braehim), by 
   blinding his right eye: as the Sun is the right eye of the 
Cosmic 
   Person, the death of the sun is the transcendence of the right 
eye, 
   or masculine pingala-current. This story finds echos in 
Loki's 
   instigation of the slaying of Baldur the Beautiful with the 
spear 
  of 
   mistletoe, Lug's slaying of Balor of the Baleful Eye, St. 
George 
   (Gae-ourgi, earth-worker, but more accurately Molten-metal-
   worker) slaying the fiery dragon, and probably Odysseus's 
blinding 
   of the Cyclops and Samson (Shamash-On, Sun-God)'s blinding and 
   captivity in the mill of the North (the heavens turning about 
the 
   pole star).
   
   For us personally, it is a commemoration of the slaying of our 
   radiant Brahmic-ego, or Solar Angel, for its excessive pride. 
Not 
   surprising, I guess, that this issue has been lively for us 
again 
  of 
   late ...
   
  
  Maybe I should have made that clearer -- I am not
  claiming to have vanquished *my* excessive pride; only that it has
  been an issue of late, and I didn't even realize I was playing out
  the drama of my own calendar-system!
  
  And anyhow, the Brahmic-Solar-ego descends into the Northern
  Underworld in a fortnight, and is reborn again around Dec. 24-25, 
and
  so on and so on...nothing lasts forever, not even Death :-)
 
 
 Yeah. That explains EVERYTHING!  ;-)

Well, maybe it explains Christmas :-)
 
 Hey Rocky, wanna see me pull a rabbit outa my hat?

You saying I'm full of Bull...winkle?

No argument there :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  I remain open to the claim from some folks that they
  no longer perceive a difference between shit and
  shinola -- both are just particles of their Self. 
  It's possible, and more power to 'em if they really do
  perceive that way. But to be honest I don't want to
  smell their shoes after they shine them.  :-)
 
 I think Judy has pointed out could not function in this world without 
 *some* discrimination; after Death it simply is not predominant, 
more 
 like a fine, multi-colored oil-layer of variety on an ocean of 
 ThatSelf. Call it leshavidya if you like, or simply keeping one eye 
 on the movie :-)

This simile still implies that the oil-slick and the ocean are in 
someway different though, and that's not true. 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 This simile still implies that the oil-slick and the ocean are in 
 someway different though, and that's not true.

More accurate would be that old analogy of the ocean's depths and the 
minute vibration of its surface waves.

More like a constant collapse-and-return of the unbounded into the 
particle(s) and vice versa, with the particles' being essentially 
nothing but programmed unbounded; unbounded dreaming and acting out  
a what-if or let's pretend scenario.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
R: This simile still implies that the oil-slick and the ocean are 
in 
  someway different though, and that's not true.
 
 do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Thank God you cleared that up!!!  Now I can sleep peacefully tonight.

*lol* Saving the worldone particle at a time!

(DISCLAIMER to ANY and ALL of mySelf: The above is only a joke, an 
obsolete program, a work of fiction, which does not in any way reflect 
any true belief, attitude or opinion of anyone, or of no-one. More 
truly perhaps, there is no world to be saved, hence no savior(s) and no 
savee(s)...nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
wrote:
  
   
   This simile still implies that the oil-slick and the ocean 
are in 
   someway different though, and that's not true.
  
  More accurate would be that old analogy of the ocean's depths and 
the 
  minute vibration of its surface waves.
  
  More like a constant collapse-and-return of the unbounded into 
the 
  particle(s) and vice versa, with the particles' being essentially 
  nothing but programmed unbounded; unbounded dreaming and acting 
out  
  a what-if or let's pretend scenario.
 
 
 Any chance I can get a baguette with this word soup?  A nice crusty
 one would be nice.

You can pretend anything you like, crusty or not, as always :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  You can pretend anything you like, crusty or not, as always :-)
 
 
 Since nothing means anything, I'm sure you wont object to my taking
 the role of being rooted in absolute reality and you just
 pretending.  Think of it as that cute thing the unenlightened do.

I believe I have made it abundantly clear I am just pretending, 
Curtis. 

You may take any role you like, as always :-)



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  R: This simile still implies that the oil-slick and the ocean 
are 
  in 
someway different though, and that's not true.
   
 
 
 That well explains why some are so eternally slippery.

Braman is slippery -- MMY said it, too, so it must be true :-)

Seriously (more or less), what do you expect of something that is 
subtler than either-or, a priori to language? 

How many here understand that the Self is prior to discrimination? 
Mmm?

... Almost everybody.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Self prior to all distinction?  Doesn't that necessarily turn out to 
be a verbal quibble?  

Not IME, no.

To know itself as Self, doesn't it have to posit a  non-self?   

The memory of non-self remains, by which and through which the Self 
knows itself as the Self. It's not that *all* discrimination vanishes, 
necessarily; it just no longer predominates. It now serves the Self, 
rather than obscuring it.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi announces new role for himself.

2007-11-24 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
 mailander111@ wrote:
 
  Self prior to all distinction?  Doesn't that necessarily turn out 
to 
 be a verbal quibble?  
 
 Not IME, no.
 
 To know itself as Self, doesn't it have to posit a  non-self?   
 
 The memory of non-self remains, by which and through which the Self 
 knows itself as the Self. It's not that *all* discrimination 
vanishes, 
 necessarily; it just no longer predominates. It now serves the 
Self, 
 rather than obscuring it.

But to know itself as Self is not like any other knowledge, which 
is indeed dualistic and based on a comparison, on an either-or 
discrimination. 

That's why this Self-knowledge is so mind-blowing -- literally. It is 
so ordinary and so special, so still and so dynamic, so Dead and so 
Alive, so *this* and so *that* -- so slippery, so concrete, so in-
your-face paradoxical. Literally unimaginable, literally unspeakable. 

Yet it IS; I AM. 

Discrimination cannot capture it; discrimination can only surrender 
awe-struck.




[FairfieldLife] The Crone and Crystal-Month

2007-11-23 Thread Rory Goff
FWIW, today is the start of Winter in the Rorian Taurus-Equinox (T-
E) Calendar, when the Sun enters T-E Capricorn. This is the month of 
the Indigo Mason, or Crone: Kali, Cailleach, Loki -- Saturn as Binah 
the Sterile Mother -- she is the Critic, the Stonecutter, chipping 
away all identification with the unTrue and unReal. She is Death to 
all that is impermanent.

These first 2.5 days of Crystal-Month are especially interesting, 
when her mate the Violet Alchemist (Jupiter, ruler of T-E Aquarius) 
slays his father, the Golden Solar Creator (Baeli-Braehim), by 
blinding his right eye: as the Sun is the right eye of the Cosmic 
Person, the death of the sun is the transcendence of the right eye, 
or masculine pingala-current. This story finds echos in Loki's 
instigation of the slaying of Baldur the Beautiful with the spear of 
mistletoe, Lug's slaying of Balor of the Baleful Eye, St. George 
(Gae-ourgi, earth-worker, but more accurately Molten-metal-
worker) slaying the fiery dragon, and probably Odysseus's blinding 
of the Cyclops and Samson (Shamash-On, Sun-God)'s blinding and 
captivity in the mill of the North (the heavens turning about the 
pole star).

For us personally, it is a commemoration of the slaying of our 
radiant Brahmic-ego, or Solar Angel, for its excessive pride. Not 
surprising, I guess, that this issue has been lively for us again of 
late ...


*lol*



[FairfieldLife] Re: Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

2007-11-22 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think you forgot the part where they just aren't
 evolved enough to understand you. But they will be
 someday, by which time you'll have evolved to ZC
 and still be superior to them.
 

Not IME. Death is the great equalizer. 




[FairfieldLife] Re: Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

2007-11-22 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
   I think you forgot the part where they just aren't
   evolved enough to understand you. But they will be
   someday, by which time you'll have evolved to ZC
   and still be superior to them.
   
  
  Not IME. Death is the great equalizer.
 
 Funny that from certain people's perspective, they assume that once 
 they reach enlightenment, they will be superior to everyone. 
 
 Another case of the dualist mind imagining something it cannot 
 comprehend-- a state where everything is available, and no duality 
 occurs in our identity, where the idea of taking the Universe's 
gifts 
 and making them ours, against theirs, becomes not only 
impossible, 
 but absurd; when you have either nothing or everything, what 
 comparison is there to be made?

I don't know :-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Birthday Dr. Pete

2007-11-21 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm like MMY, the Divine plan changes based on my
 ADHD!!

ADHD + Alzheimer's = Line on Air. 

Happy Birthday  what were we just talking about?





[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi speaks candidly about those opposing him

2007-11-21 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
 
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest
   george.deforest@ wrote:
  
   I know I am being opposed. I am prepared to take and swallow 
and
   digest ninety-nine people opposing as long as I have one person 
to
   follow me.
  
  Absolute Being?  Maharishi doesn't sound here like a man who's 
fully
  confident in his position. He sounds like a guy who's arrogant,
  combative, defensive and vulnerable.
 
 And, a person who is convinced that he is RIGHT,
 and not open to any discussion on the topic. There
 is no room for feedback, because he's RIGHT. So
 anyone who is less than on board with what he
 wants to do is opposing him. The reason people
 might do this is because they're just not as
 evolved as he is. They'll understand when they
 get as evolved as he is.
 
 Sound familiar? We hear similar positions every
 week on FFL.


Wow. You're RIGHT!

:-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: New Age-Like Elements and the Third Reich

2007-11-21 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Fascinating, this historic scapegoating of Jews amazes me. When did 
 it start? was it really all because the elders of Jerusalem demanded 
 Christ be sacrificed? 


Joseph Atwill's Caesar's Messiah provides the most convincing 
evidence to date I've seen that Christianity was invented by the 
Flavian Roman emperors as a device to curb the Messianic zealotry of 
the Jews.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi speaks candidly about those opposing him

2007-11-21 Thread Rory Goff

R: Wow. You're RIGHT!

:-)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 No, You are wrong!

Hahahahaha. Wait a minute. Which one is You, again? I am like so 
confused. 

Anyway, as I think I was saying before I so rudely interrupted myself, 
Happy Birthday to Me.





[FairfieldLife] Re: New Age-Like Elements and the Third Reich

2007-11-21 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 On Nov 21, 2007, at 11:30 AM, hugheshugo wrote:
 
  I honestly don't think it's likely or, knowing the people I hang out
  with, even possible in the TMO. I think everyone would walk away
  sadly shaking their heads if it all got too weird.
 
 If?
 
 Sal


*Actually* laughed out loud at this one; thanks, Sal.




[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
   snip Certainly a large percentage
of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
some overwhelming emotion. snip
   
   Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol
  
  *lol* You crack me up.
 
 
 Who's 'me'?

Great question; let's keep asking.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 snip Certainly a large percentage
  of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
  by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
  some overwhelming emotion. snip
 
 Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol

*lol* You crack me up.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ 
 wrote:
  I haven't slept in meditation for 25 years. As usual Vaj is talking 
  about something he has no knowledge. In other words a fraud.
 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I haven't NOT slept in meditation for 25 years...


I haven't meditated for 25 years...



[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
 
snip Certainly a large percentage
 of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
 by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
 some overwhelming emotion. 

On the one hand, you're quite right; no emotion is a substitute 
for enlightenment; nothing transitory is a substitute 
for enlightenment. On the other hand, you're killing another straw-
man. I claim no experience as enlightenment. Nor does Jim, as far as 
I can see. 

It would appear you're still managing to ignore me, as I repeat yet 
again that Death is the door to Life: everything false must die; 
the eye of the needle can accept nothing but Truth. 

No experience, no tradition, no concept, no belief, no attachment, 
no I can survive the Long View. Death is a sculptor/sculpture, 
carefully chipping everything away that is not Real. And that's 
every thing.

*After* Death, now -- that's different! But you're in no position to 
evaluate any of that until you Die. Surrender to the Crone, and then 
we'll talk.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ 
wrote:
 
 [snip]
 
 snip Certainly a large percentage
  of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
  by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
  some overwhelming emotion. snip
 
 Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol

*lol* You crack me up.
   
   
   Who's 'me'?
  
  Great question; let's keep asking.
 
 
 Can't answer?

Not if there's a you who's asking me, no. Duality is a lie.

Each of us has to chip away all the lies, all the beliefs, all the 
concepts, to find the answer for ourself. Remove all the Untruth, and 
the Truth is what's left.

That's what it means to Die.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ 
  wrote:
   
   [snip]
   
   snip Certainly a large percentage
of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
some overwhelming emotion. snip
   
   Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol
  
  *lol* You crack me up.
 
 
 Who's 'me'?

Great question; let's keep asking.
   
   
   Can't answer?
  
  Not if there's a you who's asking me, no. Duality is a lie.
  
  Each of us has to chip away all the lies, all the beliefs, all 
the 
  concepts, to find the answer for ourself. Remove all the Untruth, 
and 
  the Truth is what's left.
  
  That's what it means to Die.
 
 
 If you're dead then who is writing the posts under the name of 
Rory?

Who, indeed? You want me to spoonfeed you the answer? Can't be done. 
Find it for yourself. Die and find out. Who is me?

 You refer to a me yet you fail to identify who or what that me 
is. 

I have identified who me is, but I can't tell you, if you think you 
are other than me. You have to find out for yourSelf.

 With that kind of logic, your words are meaningless - so why bother?

It's not logic, because logic like language is based on duality -- 
either/or. I am prior to either/or, prior to discrimination. Atman 
is subtler than Buddhi.

So yes, the words are meaningless, in that they cannot directly 
convey the Real or the True, but they can help to chip away what is 
not Real and a Lie. 





[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 Possibly what Turq mistakes as the emotion of enlightenment-like 
 experiences is the more immediate emotion expressed as a result of 
 living Here and Now. Like when you stub your toe, cut your finger 
or 
 bang your head; its immediate, and expressed as such. No time for 
 concepts, postulates, discourse. Instead its here, now, in your 
 face, immediate, and so very very enjoyable. Life at one's 
 fingertips. That is the expression.
 
 As for Turq's contrast of emotion with hours long experience of no 
 thought samadhi, he sees this clearly as a great contrast and 
 relief from the endless stories and clutter that ordinarily inhabit 
 his mind. Whereas the experience of established enlightenment is 
 that typically nothing is in the mind. hours long samadhi...when 
I 
 read that, my reaction was, why only hours long? Seems so 
 limiting... After hours long samadhi, then what, go back to hell? 
 How is that possibly better than living in freedom 24x7?

Yes, exactly. Valuing Hours long samadhi is still just clinging to 
another experience, nothing whatever to do with Death or Life, 
really. Contrasting and comparing the hours long samadhi 
with anything else is just another good/bad duality of 
attraction/aversion.

Death shows us that the relative and the absolute are the same, that 
samadhi and not-samadhi are the same, spirit and matter are the same, 
self and not-self are the same, inner and outer are the same, and so 
on...

And from *this* place, experience shows itself to be as eternal as 
non-experience :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  Yes, exactly. Valuing Hours long samadhi is still just 
  clinging to another experience...
 
 I don't care what you two clowns argue about
 to defend your images of your selves as 
 enlightened. Not my interest.

No, your interest appears to be attacking something or somebody that 
only exists in your head.
 
 But for the record, I only mentioned hours-long
 experiences of samadhi to differentiate the
 experience from the momentary second-long-or-
 less flashes of thoughtlessness that most TMers
 seem to have, based on having taught and checked
 thousands of them. To get an idea of what
 samadhi actually is, you probably need some
 time to settle in to the experience, not just 
 a tiny flash. 

Who cares about any of that shit? It is of no lasting value; someone 
looking for more or longer samadhi is pathetic, just another addict 
looking for his fix. Anything to escape that nagging sense of 
futility and failure, eh? 

*lol*
 
 That could be in the form of hours-long periods 
 of samadhi during meditation, which some forms 
 of meditation can produce, or it could be in the 
 form of samadhi present for long periods of time 
 simultaneous with activity, as in what Maharishi 
 used to call CC. At one point that was *his* 
 definition of what a transcendental experience
 was. snip


If it's an experience, it is not Real or True. If it can be defined, 
it is still not Dead enough to Be of any value.





[FairfieldLife] Re: New Age-Like Elements and the Third Reich

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo
  richardhughes103@ wrote:
  
   I have reached a conclusion on the Hitler conspiracies, I 
   think it's all caused by fear. Fear that if Hitler wasn't 
   possessed/in league with aliens/ the devil etc. then he 
   must have been closer to us than we like to admit. Just 
   a man. How close to his madness are we? That, I think, 
   is the fear that drives this.
  
  Bingo.
  
  The higher the pedestal of evil folks place Hitler
  up on, the less they have to deal with the possibility 
  that he was Just Like Them.
  
 So, you don't do this, therefore you are Just Like Hitler??? sounds 
 terribly confused Turq...but, uh, sieg heil anyway I suppose.
 
  I actually see it as the *same* phenomenon as put-
  ting one's spiritual teachers up on pedestals of
  good. The further away folks make them, the less
  they ever have to deal with what these teachers 
  teach. The more they can make these guys special, 
  the more excuses they'll have to avoid realization, 
  because they're not *as* special.
 
 Huh? Are you just dancing here, or what?

Oh, I don't know; I'd say he's pretty close here -- his main hang-up 
seems to be he still thinks samadhi is special.






[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Funny, but in between 'communicating' with 'you' I watched this clip: 
 
 Doctor Who - Time Crash [he meets himself]
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtIXg7MzPUY


*lol* Brilliant! That's us, all right :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
jflanegi@ 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@
 wrote:
 snip Certainly a large percentage
  of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
  by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
  some overwhelming emotion. snip
 
 Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol

*lol* You crack me up.
   
   Who's 'me'?
  
  An unreal spewer of non-truth.
 
 Who seems to get away with it in Fairfield.
 What's up with that, huh? 
 
 The best I can figure is that after decades
 of empty TM promises people are so hungry 
 for some sign that enlightenment exists that
 they'll believe almost anyone who claims to
 have realized it.
 
 Tell me it isn't so, and that he has some
 phwam! in person, cuz he really doesn't 
 on the Net. 
 
 It's not an attacking thing on my part,
 as his ego likes to believe, it's just that
 I don't believe him, and he's uncomfortable
 with the fact that I don't believe him. If
 he weren't, and if there weren't a he 
 still in there *to* be uncomfortable,
 why all these endless defenses, eh?

 Same with Jimbo. The ladies doth protest
 too much, methinks.

This should be really good. Could you clarify for Turq, Alex?

*lol*




[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
 jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
no_reply@
  wrote:
  snip Certainly a large percentage
   of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
   by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
   some overwhelming emotion. snip
  
  Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol
 
 *lol* You crack me up.

Who's 'me'?
   
   An unreal spewer of non-truth.
  
  Who seems to get away with it in Fairfield.
  What's up with that, huh? 
  
  The best I can figure is that after decades
  of empty TM promises people are so hungry 
  for some sign that enlightenment exists that
  they'll believe almost anyone who claims to
  have realized it.
  
  Tell me it isn't so, and that he has some
  phwam! in person, cuz he really doesn't 
  on the Net. 
  
  It's not an attacking thing on my part,
  as his ego likes to believe, it's just that
  I don't believe him, and he's uncomfortable
  with the fact that I don't believe him. If
  he weren't, and if there weren't a he 
  still in there *to* be uncomfortable,
  why all these endless defenses, eh?
 
  Same with Jimbo. The ladies doth protest
  too much, methinks.
 
 This should be really good. Could you clarify for Turq, Alex?
 
 *lol*

(And you'd better make sure to add a super-duper extra helping 
of phwam! so it will be nice and *special* for him...)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Emotion Junkies (was New Age Elements of the Third Reich)

2007-11-20 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
jflanegi@ 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
snip Certainly a large percentage
 of the experiences claimed as enlightenment
 by Jim and Rory fall into the category of just
 some overwhelming emotion. snip

Wow-- you nailed it Turq! lol
   
   *lol* You crack me up.
  
  
  Who's 'me'?
 
 An unreal spewer of non-truth.


PHWAM! 


This IS the best description of 'me' EVER!










[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Actually it would still possess meaning with or without a direct  
 experience of the absolute. What's important to get is just 
because  
 someone tells you something represents the absolute does not mean it  
 is the  absolute. But the latter is common is diluted and/or  
 distorted traditions, like the TMO.


From here, arguing about meaning and distorted traditions or 
attaching any meaning to any tradition is completely laughable: 
just another way to deny the emptiful meaninglessness of one's a priori 
Death and attempt to cling to self-importance, judgment, specialness -- 
a complete waste of time and misuse of discrimination, IOW.

OTOH, in retrospect I see TM was an excellent anti-addiction 
addiction for us as it showed us how to transcend, or die, again and 
again: how to effortlessly give up control, again and again, until we 
were finally ready to face and surrender to the Big One.



And you're still misusing it's too. 

:-)





[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:19 AM, Rory Goff wrote:
 
  From here, arguing about meaning and distorted traditions or
  attaching any meaning to any tradition is completely laughable:
 
 In this context, tradition means practical tradition not merely  
 passing on of customs or some habitual cookie-cutter teaching.

In THIS context, any tradition, even a practical one is baloney. We 
don't die by acquiring more and more, we die by ourselves, naked and 
Alone.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 19, 2007, at 11:19 AM, Rory Goff wrote:
 
  And you're still misusing it's too.
 
 
 I've always been possessive of my pronouns.

It's a false possession: a misunderstanding to mistake a possession for 
a contraction. 

Not unlike one's attachment to tradition.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 It's a false possession: a misunderstanding to mistake a possession 
for 
 a contraction. 

And equally, as in your case, to mistake a contraction for a possession.

 
 Not unlike one's attachment to tradition.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
R:  In THIS context, any tradition, even a practical one is  
  baloney. We
  don't die by acquiring more and more, we die by ourselves, naked and
  Alone.
 
Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I don't know about you, but I plan on dying with my clothes ON  
 (unless of course I happen to be in the shower at the time or making  
 love)!

It is natural to trivialize and joke about it, in our attempt to avoid 
and deny it. 

Just dropping a friendly reminder that until we accept its presence 
wholeheartedly as Here and Now, our spiritual journey has not truly 
even begun.



[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 As we see from this world's great religions, lifetimes can be 
 spent deciding what to wear, what color, drape of fabric, what 
shoes 
 to put on, how to step, in what order progress will be made, what 
to 
 think, how others may have explained it in the dusty past, before 
 the very first step of the spiritual journey is made. What a waste 
 of time, and a waste of life.

Certainly looks like it, doesn't it? Life is wasted on the living. 

*lol*

But there's one thing I've learned here: the living can not really 
see the dead, and the dead cannot really speak to the living. 

To us the so-called living are like ghosts -- i.e., the dead who 
refuse to acknowledge they are dead, because of some attachment they 
still hold to earth, some overriding past-memory or future-desire 
keeping them out of Here and Now. We can speak to them, but they 
refuse to hear.

The dead can only be truly heard by the dead, or, on rare occasions, 
by someone on their death-bed. 

Then they can see us, and we can serve as a welcoming-committee, as 
was my pleasure with you :-)








[FairfieldLife] Re: Empty Bill's claims about alamabana

2007-11-19 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor 
 matrixmonitor@ wrote:
 
  ---I don't get it.  In reply to the statement that if people 
waste 
  their lives watching the NFL and drinking beer, Rory said This 
 could 
  be just what the doctor ordered.  Sounds like somebody wants to 
 have 
  it both ways. 
  
 Short answer, yes. And no problem with that. Mine was a personal 
 opinion, whereas Rory's was an observation. I should have clarified 
 that *for me*, the way the major religions approach enlightenment 
is 
 like someone who says they want to go bungee jumping, and instead 
of 
 doing so, spends all of their time taking measurements, studying 
 techniques, asking other's opinions, issuing pronouncements on what 
it 
 will feel like when the jump is made, instead of just jumping.

Agreed. It is not likely that watching NFL and drinking beer, and 
*not doing the inner work* will lead to enlightenment. 

Nor is it at all likely that any spiritual practice -- liturgic, 
yogic or otherwise -- that *avoids the inner work* will lead to 
enlightenment. 

From my point of view, that's absolutely OK. 

It is also a waste of time *if* one thinks one is going to get 
enlightenment by pursuing some means that allows them to distract 
themselves from embracing the reality of their own death Here and Now.

And that's perfectly OK too.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is FFL_Topic_Heading_Editor

2007-11-18 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Here here.
 (that means 'good point' in pompous british speak)

Actually, I think it's hear, hear, if one wishes to be truly 
pompous :-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: for Judy

2007-11-18 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Then you failed in your job.  You should have been taking a bunch of 
us to Valhalla. 

Only when we're truly dead. 

Many of us appear to be resisting that. 

It's only natural to see Death as the ultimate Demon to be feared, 
resisted, denied, trivialized, and ignored. I mean utter death, 
not death of the body or subtle body but my I-ness lives on denial. 

But I've never yet met a Demon that can be conquered by running away 
from it or denying it. The only way to escape the Crone is by 
complete surrender, by intercourse with Her -- that's the way to 
sovereignty. Support of Nature without utter surrender to Nature is 
half-baked tyranny and yet another ego-fantasy. 

It's interesting to see how universal the spiritual advice is that we 
can't really live until we have died. Until we *know* and accept utter 
futility -- utter meaninglessness, utter sameness, utter evanescence, 
utter emptiness, utter Nothingness -- our so-called spiritual path and 
progress is just play-acting: avoidance mechanisms, addictions to 
palliate and ignore the Here and Now.





[FairfieldLife] Re: Who is FFL_Topic_Heading_Editor

2007-11-18 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  Alles ist in ordnung.
 
 You see, already changes in titles has caused Rory to
 confuse this thread with the Germany invincibility
 thread!

You're right. Things are still *far* too confusing and out of kontrolle.

To macht things truly in ordnung, wir mussen find a way to make dem 
posts appearen in triplikat!





[FairfieldLife] Re: Updating Post Counts

2007-11-18 Thread Rory Goff
--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 n Nov 18, 2007, at 11:43 AM, ffl_topic_heading_editor wrote:
 
  Give the process several weeks. If it is not useful, it can be  
  abandoned.
 
  After this initial resettting of topic headings, I anticipate that
  this will not be needed any more than 2-5 times a week. And 
tapering
  down from there -- as people begin to change their topic headings
  naturally, as it becomes habit.
 
 JOOC, is this new morning here?
 
 Sal
 
 TomT:
 Yes that is new morning there playing emperor and relishing every
 moment. He is the one who has complained so bitterly of the total 
lack
 of control and order in this place. All hail the chief.


Sieg..HEIL! 

Sieg..HEIL!

Sieg..HEIL!








[FairfieldLife] Re: the amazing theater in Berlin

2007-11-17 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In answer to feste37 (see below), I'd like to ask, what if Marshy 
really is enlightened and is laughing his fool head off like Vaj and 
Curtisdeltablues and me?  What if Marshy is rolling around on the floor 
with us?  What if he's smart enough to deconstruct his whole movement, 
I mean MOVEMENT, excuse me, in the manner we have been witnessing these 
past few years?  
 snip

I don't know about MMY, but that video totally cracked me up; I haven't 
laughed that hard in years. I almost choked on my tongue!

In part, I think, it's a cautionary tale because in making overt claims 
of Invincibility and elimination of all negativity and all that, 
they are really speaking of extremely subtle, interior, Raam-Raj 
particle-loving and one's consequent integrity and harmony; of the true 
marriage of Purusha and Prakriti, but this video illustrates how 
hideously distorted those understandings can become when 
misinterpreted, misunderstood and misapplied by a separate small-mind, 
one that has not yet died. And I'm not speaking of the audience.

The way the Raj treated his particles in that video -- dully 
repeating Invincibility, over and over, like a mantra, and *louder* 
and *louder* to drown out the objections and consequent chaos, trying 
to get all his particles to sing along (which they do 
automatically, Vedically, when one is in harmony with them), refusing 
or unable to actually speak to their concerns, was a perfect example of 
the tyranny of Brahma-raj -- the fascism of the ignorant-I -- rather 
than the intimate sweetness of Raam-raj. 

David Lynch, OTOH, was a very impressive example of Raam-raj, I 
thought.

It was brilliant theater, truly brilliant.

And again, I am *not* judging the depth or breadth of *anyone's* 
actual enlightenment here, because there is no one here to 
be enlightened, to judge or be judged in reality: only appreciating 
aspects of my own understanding or lack of it, as illustrated by the 
*actors in the movie.* The Raaj did a beautiful job acting out the 
attempts and strategies of the unripe or not-yet-dead mind to control 
its environment. Lynch did a beautiful job acting out the ability of 
the dead to Be Here Now; to listen to feedback and begin to harmonize 
one's particles. Each played perfectly off the other. 

They're both perfect; both in reality just momentary fluctuations of 
emptiful Nothing, of Me, of the Self.







[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-14 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I like that analogy-- it works. After working with my mind to 
 refine, refine, refine, and discriminate, the most difficult thing 
 to get for me was the letting go, into enlightenment. It occurred 
 because I had exhausted everything else, and in the process had 
 refined my thought and action to become worthy of the state of 
 enlightenment. 
 
 So it seems like a very basic trap if you will, of everyone that 
 approaches, and eventually (who can say when?) completes this 
 process. Especially difficult for those who have spent so much time 
 on the refinement of thought and studying the process from a 
 dualistic standpoint. Very difficult to let go. So much 
 rationalization and false ownership for holding on to what has been 
 learned to that point. 
 
 Or in some cases the seeker tries to get it by declaring that all 
 viewpoints they have are essentially worthless, or distinctly 
 transient-- which is just another attempt to capture 
 enlightenment, by the dualistic mind; not enlightenment at all.


Yeah, true. Another thing about that canary-pecking-at-the-mirror 
analogy -- When we consider that the mirror completely surrounds and 
encases the canary, it could also be called an egg. And how do we get 
out of the egg except by peck, peck pecking at it?!

*rofl*




[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-14 Thread Rory Goff
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote:
 
  (P.S. It looks as though you've apparently chosen yet again 
  to ignore the main point of the post: the distinction between 
  sattva and purusha, or judging it's a really, really *good* 
  movie vs. actually freeing oneself from belief in the movie. 
  While I enjoy sattvic behavior as much as the next guy, judging 
  anyone's behavior as enlightened or not enlightened would 
  to me fall into the category of judging the quality of the movie.)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ah, the light dawns. 
 
 Rory and Jim just don't have any *discrimination*.

In a sense, that's true; I don't haplessly identify with the 
discriminator as I did before dying, as THAT or the Me or the 
Self is behind discrimination, behind buddhi. 

In another sense, that's quite untrue, as you may recall I 
have discriminated into your sloppy thinking here on FFL, which 
oddly enough appears to be about when you stopped seeing me as a semi-
enlightened friend whose experiences you claimed to like to read, 
and started seeing me as a moodmake-y, unconvincing asshole. 

Of course, I am both, or neither. 

I repeat, I can make no claims to enlightenment or ignorance, I 
can make no claims to anything but having died, and even that from 
some POVs must be untrue, as here I apparently still am. 

As to shakti over the internet -- some get it, some don't. I couldn't 
care less either way. I think it's been pointed out many times on FFL 
that even the most inveterate shakti-junkies *still* manage to 
avoid dying. No great suprise there -- who would purposely trade 
all those great kicks for absolute Nothingness? Only those who have 
no choice. 

I am only here to (metaphorically) cut off your head, dance on it, 
throw your corpse into my fire, consume it utterly, and scatter the 
sparks to the breeze, and why would you want that unless you *knew* 
just how much suffering your head was causing you? 

I do not wonder how or why you so sedulously manage to ignore me. 

I'll wait.

*lol*

 
 



[FairfieldLife] ANOTHER New Idea For Posting Limits (Re: Jim Done)

2007-11-14 Thread Rory Goff
Thank you, but please remove my name from the list, Duve; I look 
forward if anything to making fewer, not more posts :-)



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Three folks now have voted.
 
 Next to the names are the number of votes received.
 
 Angela 1
 boo_lives 2
 cardemaister 2
 Curtis 2
 Judy 2
 Jim 2
 Lurk 2
 Marek 2
 Nabby 1
 Off 1
 Rory 2
 Richard J. Williams 2
 Turq 1
 Vaj 1
 
 Duveyoung, Curtis and Nabby have voted.
 
 
 
 
 Edg
 PS Curtis, let me get this straight, you're trying to enlist others
 here to help you grab my underpants?  
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  

So far, by my count, here's the vote tally so far, in 
alphabetical
   order:

Angela 1
boo_lives 2
cardemaister 2
Curtis 2
Judy 2
Jim 2
Lurk 2
Marek 2
Off 1
Rory 2
Richard J. Williams 2
Vaj 1

   
   
   So you are claiming that 21 people voted here in your little 
scheme to
   turn FFL into Junior High?  I don't believe you.
   
Duveyoung, and Nablusoss1008 have voted. 
  
  Or is it that you and Nabby only have voted for each of these 
people?
   If that is the case then thanks to Nabby. In the spirit of Junior
  High I vote for Nabby and Turq.  If they will meet me in the gym 
after
  PE we can give Edg a well deserved Atomic Wedgie.
  
  
   They may add more candidates
to the list, but not vote for any person more than once.

Edg
PS Bhairitu, no one here really wants to dance with you, so 
you can
just allemande-right out of here. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ 
wrote:

 Rick Archer wrote:
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  On Behalf Of Duveyoung
  Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:10 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] New Idea For Posting Limits (Re: 
Jim
  Done)
 
   
 
  To me FFL is broken if the efforts of the best-of-us are
  throttled.
 
  Trouble is, who decides who's best. A vote might result 
in
tyranny of the
  majority. We all have our favorites, and the idea does 
have some
merit, in
  that if people felt they were being evaluated and rewarded
 on the
basis of
  post quality, they might put more effort into their 
posts. But
judging them
  is a murky endeavor. Someone might write great stuff, but 
be
expressing
  unpopular ideas, and so be restricted. Also, I shy away 
from
anything that
  complicates my task as moderator. My vote is, that I'd be 
up for
the idea if
  a majority here wanted to do it, but so far you're the 
only one.
 That would be a miss-use of democracy which we have a lot of
 these 
 days.  Some people think it's their democratic right to 
drive
 a gas 
 guzzling pickup or SUV.  Fine, I say but just don't give 
them
 a tax 
 break on it and maybe require a truck license.  Miss-use of
  democracy 
 winds up giving us a country catering to the lowest common
denominator.  
 Jefferson thought there should be restrictions to who could 
vote
because 
 the uneducated would just wind up manipulated by the 
elite.  Of
   course 
 that never happened.
 
 But maybe this is your lab experiment in behaviorism to see 
how a
   bunch 
 of supposedly enlightened people behave when run through 
the
 mouse
maze.
 
 Edgy reminds me of someone who suddenly in a group meeting
 stands up
and 
 out of the blue starts calling a square dance.  :D

   
  
 





[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-13 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It's more than a premise IMO. Hang around enough saints and you 
begin  
 to recognize a spontaneous quality that can only be termed virtues  
 or virtuous. It's the Natural Condition. Co-emergent with that  
 recognition is our own Natural State, which is equally abundant in  
 what I call spontaneous qualities (of the enlightened state). Any  
 meditator will begin to recognize that quality in others. No  
 scientific research necessary, this is something most people would  
 recognize.

...as co-dependent moodmaking.


*lol*





[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-13 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 13, 2007, at 6:51 PM, Rory Goff wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   It's more than a premise IMO. Hang around enough saints and you
  begin
   to recognize a spontaneous quality that can only be 
termed virtues
   or virtuous. It's the Natural Condition. Co-emergent with that
   recognition is our own Natural State, which is equally abundant 
in
   what I call spontaneous qualities (of the enlightened state). 
Any
   meditator will begin to recognize that quality in others. No
   scientific research necessary, this is something most people 
would
   recognize.
 
  ...as co-dependent moodmaking.
 
  *lol*
 
 No, as spontaneous [excellent] qualities.

Apparently, one person's spontaneous [excellent] qualities are 
another's co-dependent moodmaking, then, Vaj; or maybe you meant to 
say, *our* group's enlightened qualities are spontaneous and 
excellent; *yours* are co-dependent moodmaking? 

Either way, one could probably make a good case for this whole line 
of thinking being baloney, along the lines of mistaking sattva (a 
guna) for purusha (free from gunas), or mistaking  making it a 
really, really *good* movie with actual freedom from belief in the 
movie.

 We already have one editor here, who needs a retired antiquarian?

Who indeed? If you still think you and I exist, then you do, 
apparently, as here I apparently am. 

Speaking of editing, perhaps you missed the editor's gentle hint the 
first time around: the possessive of it is its  -- not it's, 
which is only used by the literate as the contraction of it is.




[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-13 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Nov 13, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Rory Goff wrote:
 
  Speaking of editing, perhaps you missed the editor's gentle hint the
  first time around: the possessive of it is its -- not it's,
  which is only used by the literate as the contraction of it is.
 
 
V: Yes and my understanding (perhaps not of publishing genre) was that  
 it's ok per casual anglais.

Suit yourself; to me it reeks of ignorance. 

Speaking of ignorance (how's that for a segue), you apparently ignored 
the main point of the post, about sattva vs. purusha:

Apparently, one person's spontaneous [excellent] qualities are
another's co-dependent moodmaking, then, Vaj; or maybe you meant to
say, *our* group's enlightened qualities are spontaneous and
excellent; *yours* are co-dependent moodmaking?

Either way, one could probably make a good case for this whole line
of thinking being baloney, along the lines of mistaking sattva (a
guna) for purusha (free from gunas), or mistaking making it a
really, really *good* movie with actual freedom from belief in the
movie.

 
 I don't live by my c. 1977 Norton Reader or (heaven forbid) a  
 dictionary.
 
 I'm just an ordinary being.

If only. 





[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-13 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


As to your statement, Vaj, Yes and my understanding (perhaps not of 
publishing genre) was that it's ok per casual anglais, Judy would 
like to tell you (and I heartily agree) that it's not OK no matter 
how casual your anglais, unless perhaps you're spray-painting it on 
the subway walls.
 
And in response to your statements, I don't live by my c. 1977 
Norton Reader or (heaven forbid) a dictionary and I'm just an 
ordinary being, Judy points out that Many utterly ordinary beings 
have no need of the dictionary or Norton's Reader of any vintage to 
know the difference between a possessive and a contraction.

:-)

(P.S. It looks as though you've apparently chosen yet again to ignore 
the main point of the post: the distinction between sattva and 
purusha, or judging it's a really, really *good* movie vs. actually 
freeing oneself from belief in the movie. While I enjoy sattvic 
behavior as much as the next guy, judging anyone's behavior 
as enlightened or not enlightened would to me fall into the 
category of judging the quality of the movie.)

:-)




[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Improved Behavior

2007-11-13 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip... the distinction between sattva and 
 purusha, or judging it's a really, really *good* movie vs. actually 
 freeing oneself from belief in the movie. While I enjoy sattvic 
 behavior as much as the next guy, judging anyone's behavior 
 as enlightened or not enlightened would to me fall into the 
 category of judging the quality of the movie.

I'd like to refine this comparison a bit, because I think it's crucial, 
and it's come up a lot here on FFL lately.

Judging a person as enlightened or unenlightened by his or her 
behavior is somewhat like judging an actor in a movie as being a 
genuinely good or bad person *based upon one's response to the 
dramatic role s/he happens to be playing in the movie*, when the real 
issue is whether the spectator even knows s/he is watching a movie. 

Except it is even funnier than that, because it's not just a movie, 
it's a mirror, so we could see the whole judgment-process as more like 
the canary pecking away at his own reflection.

I don't know much about logic, but I imagine one could call it 
a category error. 

*lol*








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