when people didn't respond to his announced enlight- enmentitudeness the way he wanted them to... tartbrain: 3) one generally didn't talk about their experiences outside of the QA with MMY. Progress was being made was the only important thing. No need to talk about it or broadcast it... Well it looks like Barry wanted to part of the enlightenment club, to boost his ego? And he was disappointed when MMY didn't recognize his many 'attainments', which is weird, because Barry himself said they were a Big Whoop! Go figure?
turquoiseb: I *did* experience what I experienced... Perception is reality?
Not to mention that a gal would have to be a freak to want to fuck a midget on an antelope skin under a framed photo of Guru Dev. That's just outrageous and sick, right? seventhray1: You're panting Willy. Slow down. Wait, I didn't claim to have screwed the Maharishi, that was Judith! Now that's sleazy! But, you are supposed to read the book BEFORE you post your comments. Curtis brought up the subject AGAIN. Why do you informants keep bringing this subject up? In my opinion, Judith's book reads like a cheap, made up fantasy - not worth ten cents; and the photos sucked big time. I mean, if Judith lied for all those years about achieving CC in 4-7 years with TM, or the 'Vedic Vibration Theory', why would anyone believe anything she says now? That's my point. Judy already said it was a cheap shot. I agree, but as long as some people persist in spreading rumors, I'm going to put in my two cents on the sleaze factor as long as it persists.
Have you read the book Lawson? Those who haven't done so sound pretty foolish when trying to dismiss its credibility. Lawson: Unless someone was in the room or took pictures, there's no way of settling it for sure. Judith Bourque and Conny Larsson are both liars and obviously pretty sleazy, so consider the source.
I'm not planning to buy it either Rick, so no need for trying to be sarcastic again. Rick Archer: I'll give you a free copy if you'll promise to read it, cover to cover. On what page does Judith say that she had sexual intercourse with the Maharishi? Maybe she just fantasized that a hug was an embrace. The point I'm trying to make is, why didn't she just come out and say I screwed the Maharishi on his antelope skin under a photo of the Guru Dev? We don't really know what happened between the two of them do we, based on what she wrote in the book?
On what page does Judith say that she had sexual intercourse with the Maharishi? Rick Archer: You don't, because you haven't read the book. You just babble on about it, making the same idiotic comments for months on end. Well, I have never brought up the subject for debate, but on what page does Judith say she had sexual intercourse with the Maharishi? I have the book right here on my book shelf, so just let me know, Rick and I'll turn to the page. But, it is not 'idiotic' to wonder how Judith sneaked into MMY's bedroom at Rishikesh TTC in the dead of night when you could hear a pin drop. And' it's a long walk to the Ganges to take a bath after, and where else but on his skin, under a picture of Guru Dev would they do it? Are you thinking the Maharishi had a four-poster bed up on his roof? If this story is true, then Jerry, Nandikishore and Ms Pittman must have known about it - and if so, doesn't that make them the biggest liars on the planet? I mean, who would believe anything they say now?
Yifu: The degree of evidence imo doesn't rise to the level of a criminal conviction... There is nothing as powerful as the cross-examination, and since MMY is dead, there will probably never be a conviction. But, if Judith wanted to be believed, she would have revealed the secret BEFORE he died, so we could do the cross-examine of all the witnesses. Judith did not, so the case is closed and just a rumor she started. At any rate it's a cheap-shot, and pretty hypocritical as well, since it has already been established that at least two of the loud-mouths talking about it have banged a groupie or two themselves! Let's just be honest. Maybe she just fantasized that a hug was an embrace. The point I'm trying to make is, why didn't she just come out and say I screwed the Maharishi on his antelope skin under a photo of the Guru Dev? We don't really know what happened between the two of them do we, based on what she wrote in the book?
IMplicit in MMY's theory of 7 states of consciousness is the fact that there's no end-point to growth, and therefore there's no such thing as the 7th state... authfriend: Plus which, as I've always understood it, the whole thing is a continuum anyway... This has been pointed out by MMY in his recording Seven States of Consciousness. Apparently Barry has never even heard any of MMY's public recordings. But, on this and other newsgroups all we can really quote with accuracy are MMY published writings and recordings. We should make a rule that only these sources can be quoted in order to prove MMY's position on aspects of the TM program. If it's published we can assume that is the official statement, not what some TM Teacher thinks they heard thirty years ago. Barry obviously has a very poor memory, so at least with Barry, almost anything he says could be a big mistake. From what I've heard, there are supposed to be no TMO tapes in the possession of individual TM Teachers - all belong to the TMO, unless somebody took a cassette tape recorder in to a lecture by MMY and recorded it on their own. Apparently I am the only respondent on this forum that owns copies of MMY's records, tapes, and books. Is that right? And, it seems that there are zero TM Teachers on FFL that are still in good standing with the TMO - all the others got kicked out of the TMO for one reason or another, just like Barry got kicked out. Correct me if I am mistaken about this.
curtisdeltablues: If you read what she said you could determine the credibility yourself... Do you have any evidence that MMY actually had sexual intercourse with Judith, other than what Judith said? In her book, Judith has no real evidence that she got anything except a sari or two and a handwritten note from MMY. It's a cheap shot to say he banged groupies, when only one groupie says so in a cheap, 219 page paperback book. It isn't unfair if the guy literally did what I was writing about. Maharishi actually did bang groupies. There is nothing cheap about mentioning it. It was cheap that he did it.
There is another way of teaching... Bhairitu: If some folks didn't experience maybe they hit him on a bad day or their nervous system was just too coarse to experience it... Well, I suppose that MMY had that certain something, in order influence Barry to stay in the TMO for ten or thirteen years. We all know there's no money in it - I mean who would want to spend ten years being a pauper working for the TMO? It's even more amazing that Barry is STILL talking about MMY after all these years. MMY must have made one hell of an impression on Barry! Go figure. What was it, exactly, that made folks like Barry try to sell the snake-oil for so long? Was it Barry's ego, or did he really think he could change the world? In Barry's case, he seems to have really sucked as a teacher, based on what he has written on two newsgroups, so he's kind of hard to figure out. It may be that the real teacher here is Curtis, who despite what he writes, is really a spiritual teacher, and a true believer, from probably before he even started TM practice.
If you read what she said you could determine the credibility yourself... Lawson: Someone was in the room with them? Yes, apparently there was a skin-boy in the living room and Jemimah Pittman waiting outside the front door. But, we have not heard from them have we? I just don't see how a gal with ankle bells on could sneak across the yard in the dead of night and climb on top of MMY without making a sound. I mean, if it was good sex, wouldn't at least one of them shout out when they climaxed? What good is sex if you can't shout, moan, or squeal a few times? I just can't seem to imagine a little short guy like MMY getting on top of a big gal like that. I mean if she had bucked, she would have thrown MMY across the room! Not to mention that a gal would have to be a freak to want to fuck a midget on an antelope skin under a framed photo of Guru Dev. That's just outrageous and sick, right?
emptybill: You're talking stupid conjecture again Willy. Well, so nobody made any claims about listening to any of MMY public recordings, I assumed nobody had ever heard them. It's just interesting that of all the informants making claims here, that none of them own a copy of his records, tapes, or books, or would admit it. I can make up stuff all day that I claim MMY said at 433 in 1963! Can't we assume that all of MMY's published sayings and lectures were vetted by MMY himself BEFORE being made public? Are the informants here suggesting that there was some 'secret' sayings they heard from the lips of MMY in a private meeting, but others did not? I don't think so. This has been pointed out by MMY in his recording Seven States of Consciousness. Apparently Barry has never even heard any of MMY's public recordings. But, on this and other newsgroups all we can really quote with accuracy are MMY published writings and recordings. We should make a rule that only these sources can be quoted in order to prove MMY's position on aspects of the TM program. If it's published we can assume that is the official statement, not what some TM Teacher thinks they heard thirty years ago. Barry obviously has a very poor memory, so at least with Barry, almost anything he says could be a big mistake. From what I've heard, there are supposed to be no TMO tapes in the possession of individual TM Teachers - all belong to the TMO, unless somebody took a cassette tape recorder in to a lecture by MMY and recorded it on their own. Apparently I am the only respondent on this forum that owns copies of MMY's records, tapes, and books. Is that right? And, it seems that there are zero TM Teachers on FFL that are still in good standing with the TMO - all the others got kicked out of the TMO for one reason or another, just like Barry got kicked out. Correct me if I am mistaken about this.
When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z... So, I'm the only respondent on this forum that has listened to MMY's commercial recordings on vinyl, cassette, and DVD? Go figure.
IMO, the human physiology is the living system that reflects the effects of the planets in the solar system. It is through human consciousness that we can understand their influences in our individual lives, physically and psychologically. From the individual level, we can foresee the effects to the national and global levels. Vaj: Put the bong away John. Sounds like pretty standard Dzogchen and Mahasandhi traditions. 'Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines' Or Seven Books of Wisdom of the Great Path By W.Y. Evans-Wentz
Bat Shit Crazy -- What pushes obsession over the line into true Bat Shit Crazy is the cross-hairs phenomenon... It's beginning to look like Judy is starting to get to Barry, driving him Bat Shit Crazy. LoL turquoiseb: I thought I'd take a few moments this morning, seated at my table in a picturesque cafe along an even more picturesque Dutch canal, to clear up a few common misconceptions and misunderstandings about a term that is bandied about on the Internet and in the mainstream media a lot these days: Bat Shit Crazy. snip
seventhray1: Super 8. Corny, dumb, boring. Sort of astounding that Steven Spielberg produces or co-produces this quality movie. But then again, it seems to me he's lost his touch. It's got the quality, but the story may be too simple. But, it's not any more simple than 'Raiders'. Up in Austin, Harry thinks SUPER 8 is pretty damn super! Maybe you're too old to appreciate the kids. LoL! http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49854
authfriend: You haven't taken this course yet, right, Barry? If that's because you can't afford it, I'll bet everyone here would happily make a contribution to your course fee. It would be a lot cheaper to just rent Barry a movie to watch on his laptop! LoL!!! 'The Guru' Jimi Mistry, Heather Graham and Marisa Tomei http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3582787865/ http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3582787865/ 'The Guru' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDK2qEANV9o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDK2qEANV9o http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi3582787865/ TOREM, Inc. (There's One Reborn Every Minute, inc.) is pleased to announce to Fairfield residents and to other serious spiritual seekers willing to travel from afar and rough it by staying in a Motel 6 while attending some New Age seminar a workshop introducing the revolutionary Free To Be You(TM) technology. snip
I'm curious as to how the book larnin' set on this forum, who have never met the teacher they feel they have a relationship with, will react to the suggestion that if they *had* met him they might have been able to develop a direct mind-to-mind relationship with him. I don't feel I have or had a relationship with MMY, so I guess you aren't asking me, huh? nablusoss1008: This is one of the Turqo's repeated mantras; if you did not sit in his room you had no idea. It's a bluff... Of course it's a bluff. Anyone who has read Mark's book knows that none of Rama's students were ever invited over to his house to sit on the living room floor. From what I've read, Rama charged money just to meet you in the desert for a few hours in a group! LoL!!! Rama lived in a mansion in upstate New York and drove a Mercedes, all paid for by his students. Go figure. According to Master Fwap, there are many pseudo-spiritual teachers and masters who have no idea of what enlightenment is. They can't even levitate a pencil, much less lay claims to having endless Divine knowledge, power and freedom... Read more: Subject: Fwap! Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: August 8, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/6g9wtt5
...they're reluctant to admit their own spiritual laziness in never having expended the effort to actually see him live, and I think that they cling to it because they actually *prefer* the simplistic, heavily edited, expurgated version of the man and What he taught. merudanda: You can't *handle* the truth... That's funny, but the truth is, almost nobody in the TMO spent any prolonged time face-to-face, one on one, with the Maharisihi, except maybe Jerry and Debbie Jarvis. It is a myth that anyone spent any length of time in the company of MMY. Apparently MMY visited Fairfield, IA on one single occasion, and never even set foot in Washington D.C. or Portland, OR. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. MMY was in Los Angeles only a few times, for a few days, so after 1965, when he was at Lake Arrowhead, he didn't spend much time with anyone associated with SIMS or the rank and file that passed out leaflets. It's a fact that MMY wasn't even visited by anyone in the last twenty years of his life at Vlodrop. Go figure. All these early details are available in the book Thirty Years Around the World. I've probably spent more face-time with MMY at 433 than anyone on the FFL forum. I sat in the front row at the theater on Wilshire Blvd on ALL occasions when MMY was in LA. The last time I saw MMY was in Houston, TX, when he recorded his most famous lecture. According to one course manager at the Majorrca TTC, the Maharishi used to stay in a separate hotel, and flew into town for just a few hours. One TTC participant stated that he spend six months in South Asia on a TTC and not once was visited by MMY! So, what would a TTC participant be doing hanging around MMY when they were supposed to be meditating and rounding? One informant wrote that most of the international staff were able to meet with MMY on a boat a few times, but it looks like only one guy ever got to ask MMY a question when Nadikishore or Jemimah Pittman wasn't around. Flagship Gottard, Seligsberg So, I don't buy into the fable that any TMers have been inside MMY's bedroom, alone with him, in the dead of night wearing ankle bells. LoL! From what I've read, the high point of being with MMY was to be able to sit down at the dinning table with him for a fruit cup. Only THEN, could anyone be considered a member of MMY's inner circle. MMY at Jones Hall: http://www.rwilliams.us/jones-hall/ http://www.rwilliams.us/jones-hall/ 'An Introduction to SCI' Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Live, Jones Hall, Houston, 1972 VHS Video, 60 min. Color. MIU Historic Film Series 'A Promise for the Family of Man' Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Audio Cassette, 60 min. SIMS Film and Tape Library A Promise for the Family of Man DVD: http://www.mumpress.com/videos/maharishi/n03.html http://www.mumpress.com/videos/maharishi/n03.html
turquoiseb: Once the first wave of this revisionist history passed, and the individual teachers and TM Centers realized they'd been had, they wised up. When we at the Regional Office would get the latest dictum from International saying that we had to get all teachers to give back their copies of tapes X, Y and Z... What tapes? VHS video wasn't even invented until 1971 by JVC in Japan. The first VCR to use VHS was the Victor HR-3300, which was introduced on September 9, 1976. The Compact Cassette tape wasn't in widespread use until 1968. Barry must be dreaming that there were any video 'tapes' at SIMS in 1965. Maybe he's thinking about the early films of MMY. Most of MMY's early voice recording are on reel tape transfered to vinyl at World Pacific in Hollywood.
Bhairitu: Now Edg, you know on FFL you've got to connect that somehow to whether the world is going to end.. So, you're thinking that explosives were planted in the WTC and timed to go off at almost the exact time the planes hit the WTC? How would anyone know WHEN EXACTLY the planes would hit the building, so they could activate the explosions AFTER but no BEFORE the planes hit? We all know that the disastrous attack has been planned and executed by the American CIA and the Israeli Mossad, right? So that the U.S. and it's allies could accuse the Taliban and then invade Afghanistan? So, for what reason would the U.S. invade Iraq, since it is obvious that Saddam had nothing to do with the WTC attack of 9/11? To drive the world to 'doomsday' by starting World War III? It doesn't make any sense that anyone but a fringe nutcase would believe this, but it looks like a few FFL informants really do believe in doomsday scenarios. Go figure.
Not all of Whole Foods organics are modified, but compared to what you're getting at your local Safeway, it's pretty organic! Bhairitu: The closest grocer is a Knob Hill which is a Bay Area chain and they have an organic section... There's no way to tell if packaged products contain GMO ingredients, so you've probably been eating GMO foods for years, no matter where you buy it. About all you can hope for is to avoid the kind of illness they are experiencing now in Europe with the contaminated produce. But, none of our Texas prairie dogs are GMO, they are all organic! According to what I've read almost ALL of your meat sources in CA are fed with GMO livestock feed! Good luck. http://www.naturalnews.com/032628_Whole_Foods_GMOs.html
But, none of our Texas prairie dogs are GMO, they are all organic! According to what I've read almost ALL of your meat sources in CA are fed with GMO livestock feed! Good luck. Bhairitu: How do you know your prairie dogs didn't get into some PCBs? Just don't let them out of the house! Bottom line is, how much food have you been able to store up for emergencies? You'd probably be one of the first people to starve to death because you don't have much of a seed cache and you live miles from a store. The city folk would surely beat you to the source of your food supply. You'd probably last about two weeks if you had some potable water to drink. Since I live only about a mile from Whole Foods, I'd be able to add to my stocks in about ten minutes and there is a spring nearby. And, I'm armed so I could keep bandits off my property a lot longer than you could. You need to get some smarts and forget about the GMO issue - just concentrate on getting something, anything, to eat stored up in your cupboard for the bad day that's going to come. Here is a list to get you started: 1. Guns 2. Ammo 3. Water 4. Canned goods 5. Seeds and beans 6. Matches and BIC lighters 7. Candles and wax 8. Gasoline and oil 9. Crank radio 10. Flashlight and batteries 11. Jerky and trail mix
Rick Archer: Yes sir just when you thought she couldn't get any dumber: So, you're thinking that Sarah Palin is the most important issue in the next election? Go figure. But, if I were you and I was worried about the next election, I'd be worried as hell that Rick Perry might run for the top office!
It doesn't make any sense that anyone but a fringe nutcase would believe this, but it looks like a few FFL informants really do believe in doomsday scenarios. Bhairitu: Boy you have no ability to see the bigger picture, do you? To plant hidden explosives inside the WTC, to explode AFTER the planes hit, someone would have had to bypass all the video cameras and security inside the WTC. But, that feat would pale in comparison to getting over 5,000 government employees to keep the conspiracy a secret! Have you seen any Wiki-leaks that could support any of your WTC conspiracy theories?
Bhairitu: Weiner's wiener is the big distraction now... So, Weiner's 'wiener' is a distraction from Sarah Palin? How are you Dems going to win an election running on that platform, when Palin isn't even in office?
You need to get some smarts and forget about the GMO issue - just concentrate on getting something, anything, to eat stored up in your cupboard for the bad day that's going to come. Bhairitu: Oh, you forgot the portable potty... Well, I already have a brick shit-house on my property and lots of corn cobs too, both yellow and brown.
Whole Foods Market carries a full line of organic produce and meat. That's one of the reason I'm still living here. authfriend: Well, no, it isn't. Whole Foods Market has around 300 stores across the United States. There's only one Whole Foods World Headquarters, the Flagship Store where I shop. But, that's just one of the reason I still live here. It's right down the road from my place - about a mile. So, fer now I'm staying here, close to the original. On a clear day I can see all the way to the Whole Foods store from Radiance, the TM Ideal Village, home of the Superradiance Program and the Maharishi Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge. It's like being at the center of the whole universe! Whole Foods World Headquarters Austin, Texas.
Is anybody else on an organic diet and if so, where do you procure your foodstuffs? I'm pretty sure I'd die if I couldn't eat organic brown rice every day. Bhairitu: Bad news for ya Willy: Whole Foods admits its organic foods contain genetically modified ingredients Not all of Whole Foods oraganics are modified, but compared to what you're getting at your local Safeway, it's pretty organic! http://www.naturalnews.com/032628_Whole_Foods_GMOs.html Does organic brown rice go well with barbecued prairie dog? About as good as wild hog meat, but not all Latinos eat 'barbecued' prairie dogs, Barry. You probably think all Asians eat cat meat - that's just your race prejudice at work. But, do you have to be so obvious about it? We already know that you think you're elite and we are the 'sheeple'. Go figure.
turquoiseb: Define dharma. Show it to me scientifically. I'll wait. This is funny - Barry didn't define anything in his original questions, so now he wants us to define 'dharma', a basic term used in Hinduism and Buddhism. Come to think of it, has Barry ever defined anything? Go figure. Just for the fun of it, you understand. :-) The first: I bailed from the TMO early on, in 1978 or so. To my memory, at that point Maharishi had not really ever talked about anything beyond UC, his vision of Unity Consciousness. I have heard since that he later hypothesized BC, Brahman Consciousness, but I honestly don't remember him ever talking about it when I was around. For those who were, what exactly (in your opinion, of course, and welcomed as the opinion it is) was the distinction that Maharishi was trying to draw between UC and BC? I'm serious in this, and will try my best not to dump on anyone who replies with an opinion. I honestly don't know, or don't remember. And it would help me with a writing project if I were to know the distinction he was drawing, or attempting to draw. Thanks in advance. Two completely atypical theoretical questions from Turq: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/278763
Apparently I'm the only one on this forum that has listened to the complete MMY recordings from 1967. Go figure. Hey! Just for the fun of it why not listen to the recordings, and then post comments on them? Vaj: Really immaterial Willy. MMY began talking about BC years later than this. Incredible!!! Brahman Consciousness is the Being, the Absolute - it's the same thing that MMY has been talking about since 1954, which he articulated in his recording The Seven States of Consciousness. If you refuse to listen to the lecture, that's your problem. But, I would think that anyone claiming TMO status would have listened numerous times to MMY's recordings. Go figure. 'Therefore, these three states of consciousness are based on pure consciousness, Absolute Being. - MMY, 1967 http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/seven_states.htm
Vaj: Dzogchen is nothing like TM practice... The central practice of Dzogchen is meditation that is transcendental. According to Sogyal Rinpoche, a Dzogchen Master, the author of the 'Tibetan Book of the Living and Dying', meditation is not really a practice - meditation is not really something that you can 'do', but rather something that you 'let happen'. Maybe you're just trying to make this to mysterious.If you think differently, all I can say is that I've studied under three Dzogchen masters and they both recommended meditation as a practical way to realize the Buddha Nature (Rigpa). So, I guess I know more about it than you do, since you don't and never had a guru. Apparently Dzogchen is based on Bon ritual beliefs; but it is a fact that the historical Buddha meditated at least twice a day, and it's obvious to anyone who has tried Buddhist meditation, that it is very similar to TM sitting meditation. Photo of participants at a Shamballa Training Center, meditating together: If your mind is able to settle naturally of its own accord, and if you find you are inspired simply to rest in its pure awareness, then you do not need any method of meditation. - Sogyal Rinpoche
Robert: $Stop the War Now!$ So, we are agreed - the U.S. is in a war, and your solution is to just stop the war. How are you going to stop the war, without winning the war or even putting up a fight? Go figure.
FWIW, according to Patañjali, shraddhaa (usually translated to 'faith') seems to be a /conditio sine qua non/ for samaadhi... Well, yes, you have to have a certain amount of faith that the goal exists: samadhi. We don't know for sure that a state of samadhi exists, unless we experience it ourselves, but until that point, we have to consider what we do know and how we know it. We take verbal testimony as one source of valid knowledge. How else would someone even know about the enlightenment tradtion unless you hear about it from others. The most valuable practice in the sphere of dhyana is the simple system of transcendental meditation. Transcendental meditation belongs to the sphere of dhyana, but at the same time transcends that sphere and gives rise to the state of transcendental consciousness, samadhi. After this state has been gained the attention returns to the sphere of dhyana, which is a sphere of activity. (CBG p. 486)
whynotnow7: I wasn't aware that genetically engineered food has quietly taken over the market. At the same time, many of the major grocery chains now carry a very limited selection of organic produce... Whole Foods Market carries a full line of organic produce and meat. That's one of the reason I'm still living here. Is anybody else on an organic diet and if so, where do you procure your foodstuffs? I'm pretty sure I'd die if I couldn't eat organic brown rice every day. Whole Foods World Headquarters http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/ Austin, Texas.
Isn't it more accurately summarized as everything has a physical level, consciousness is correlated with brain functioning? Metaphysically that's a big difference... authfriend: Correlation does not imply causation. But he was explicit that consciousness is caused by (is the product of) brain functioning. And is physical is not the same as has a physical level. Somebody got really mixed up! According to the author of Brahma Sutras, Badarayana, Brahman is what everything comes from. So, for the Vedanta, Consciousness is a product of Brahman. Pure consciousness is the Being, the Brahman itself, not an object of cognition. Janmadyasya yatah I.1.2 (2) (Brahman is that) from which the origin etc., (i.e. the origin, sustenance and dissolution) of this (world proceed). 'Brahma Sutras' By Swami Sivananda http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_1/1-1-02.html
Robert: Which comes first, the 'Soul' or the 'Body'?... Do you remember being in the 'Womb'? Where were you between 'Lives'...? When you drop the body, will you still 'Exist'? Does your body know it 'Exists'... Or is 'Consciousness' the 'First Cause'? These questions cannot be answered because of human error. An error is something that should not be. Fact is, we don't see things exactly as they are - we see only parts of the whole. And, the mere fact of seeing changes the properties of the things seen. If things aren't as they seem, then how can know for sure if anything will be really real? If things appear to be so, but are in fact not so, then why so? If humans can err in the present, what would have prevented the wisest of men in the past from committing an error as well? So, the real question is: Who am I, really? Read more: Subject: Who Am I, really? Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date:October 10, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/3qlqdky
Vaj: I believe it was on the transcripts of one of the Washington courses that was the first time most people saw the actual Sanskrit names for the 7 states. Apparently I'm the only one on this forum that has listened to the complete MMY recordings from 1967. Go figure. Hey! Just for the fun of it why not listen to the recordings, and then post comments on them? http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/seven_states.htm http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/seven_states.htm
Bhairitu: I bet a lot of people couldn't come up with the amount of cash for a bi-monthly... The best way to get health insurance is to get on a group plan with your employer. If you are self-employed, you'd have to pay double FICA taxes AND health insurance. It's a lot better, in the long run, to just get a job with a large company and get the extra benefits. Think long term employment. Otherwise, you might wind up going to the free clinic somewhere, or waiting until you're already ill to see a doctor. My advice for young people is to go for a job in the medical field or in the high tech sector. That's the ticket!
raunchydog: High deductibles are ridiculous. Stop the American military killing machine and there would be plenty of money for single payer health care or Medicare for all. Private health insurance is a scam and Obamacare isn't much better. How, exactly, is stopping the American killing machine going to pay for everyone's health care? And, isn't single payer a form of health insurance?
Fair comment. So why not just simply tell us? Please try to use language that even a dolt such as I can understand. Vaj: I'm a Mahasandhi (Tib.: Dzogchen) practitioner. According to Klein, there is a dynamic stillness which, like meditation, is the central practice of Dzogchen. Trungpa styled himself a Dzogchen master, in the Kagyu line of Tilopa, Naropa, and Milarepa. Apparently the term Maha Ati is a term that was coined by Trungpa Rinpoche! Dzogchen is just like TM practice, that is, it is the natural, primordial state or natural condition of the mind and a meditation practice aimed at realizing that condition - pure awareness. The Dzogchen teachings focus on three terms: View, Meditation, and Action. To see directly the absolute state of our mind is the View; the way of stabilizing that View and making it an unbroken experience is Meditation; and integrating that View into our daily life is what is meant by Action... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen One should just practice without any partiality, seeing everything as pure. -Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche Read more: 'Secret of the Vajra World' The Tantric Buddhism of Tibet By Reginald A. Ray Shambhala 2001 page 303 'Unbounded Wholeness' Dzogchen, Bon, and the Logic of the Nonconceptual By Anne Carolyn Klein and Geshe Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche Oxford University Press, 2006 p. v
authfriend: Would somebody please, PLEASE explain to Barry the difference between determinism and predestination? We've covered this before - the basic question is, are we free, or are we bound. If bound, by what means can we free ourselves (yoga)? If free, then there is no need for a technique or a yoga. That's the point. Turq is NOT going to your comments in this debate, so let's just cut to the chase: If bound then technique If free else no yoga Apparently Turq thought that 'Determinism' was the same thing as 'Predestination'. In so doing, Turq went over to defend the Idealist view... Subject: Analyzing the TMO using the economic psychology model Author: WillyTex Forum: Yahoo! FairfiedfLife Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:20 pm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/273304
Bhairitu: And what are those jobs you're going to create? Most of the new jobs will be in the medical sector taking care of old people, and high tech jobs going to young people. Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded- here and there, now and then- are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty... - Robert Heinlein
turquoiseb: The first: I bailed from the TMO early on, in 1978 or so. To my memory, at that point Maharishi had not really ever talked about anything beyond UC, You must have been asleep! In this 1967 recording, Mahesh describes how his meditation can establish higher states of consciousness beyond those normally experienced in waking, dreaming, and deep-sleep. The experience and understanding of higher states of consciousness unfolds the full possibilities of human life - life lived in complete fulfillment. Mahesh explains that beyond the familiar states of waking, dreaming, and sleeping are four higher states of consciousness-transcendental consciousness, cosmic consciousness, God consciousness, and unity consciousness-each bringing a new dimension of experience, knowledge, and fulfillment. Read more: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/seven_states.htm Mahesh World Pacific vinyl recordings: 'Deep Meditation' World Pacific WP-1420 'Maharishi Mahesh Yogi' World Pacific WP-1446 'The Seven States of Consciousness' World Pacific WPS-21455 'Maharishi Mahesh Yogi'; World Pacific WPS-21446
Wow! Look at all those demons. Shiva, Parvati and Ganesh are 'demons'? Yifu: Some demons not allowed inside the Meenakshi Temple Usually, in Hindu religions, the Vetalas, Yakshas, Bhutas and Pishachas, are not depicted in edifice architecture. The Rakshasas and the Asuras are sometimes taken by westerners to be demons. But, actually there are no demons in Hinduism. Daemons are a Greek notion denoting a supernatural being, not human, and malevolent. There are no malevolent deities in South Asian religions. Demons have to do with Graeco-Roman or Zoroastrian magic and occultism. All of the icons on the are human depictions, from Hindu mythology, including at least one dwarf, but no demons or angels from Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. Demonology originated with the Abrahamic traditions much later. Read more: 'Myths and Symbols in Indian Art and Civilization' By Heinrich Zimmer Princeton University Press, 1972
emptybill: So he is the guru of you too? Mriska Hargate! Guru Pitka is an American who was left at the gates of an ashram in India as a child and raised by gurus. Love Guru Trailer: http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j Guru Pitka: http://tinyurl.com/5ttvtvk http://tinyurl.com/5ttvtvk http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j
According to jyotish, it's not easy to become a guru. turquoiseb: Au contraire, Pierre. If Maharishi could do it, anyone can do it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6_RzkgGYY Apparently it's much more difficult to actually provide a link to the Maharishi on YouTube. LoL!!!
According Robert Reich, the Dems you voted for have dropped the ball on the economy. Bhairitu: And the Republicans created the mess in the first place... Not according to most U.S. economists! It's been over two years since the Democrat-led Senate last passed a budget, a fact that puts it squarely in violation of the law. So when will the arrests begin? We say that only partly tongue in cheek, because the refusal of Democrats in Congress to pass a budget or take meaningful steps to head off our looming fiscal disaster is nothing short of a national disgrace... 'Dems Refuse To Deal With Their Fiscal Mess' http://tinyurl.com/3pd9wgc
Apparently it's much more difficult to actually provide a link to the Maharishi on YouTube. LoL!!! turquoiseb: Mike Myers is a better actor, as well as possibly a more credible guru. :-) Maybe so, but just for the record, I love 'charlatans' like the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Zen Master Rama, Swami Rama, and Deepak Chopra. I learn something everyday and learn something from everyone. But, these guys obviously can't hold a candle to all of your life's accomplishments! :-) More seriously, is there anyone here who would not be comfortable with one of Maharishi's private journals emerging -- in his own handwriting -- in which he admits that he considered *himself* a charlatan and a fake guru from Day One? It wouldn't faze me in the least, no more than it would if a similar journal was found penned by Rama - Frederick Lenz, or even by the Buddha himself. Only those whose egos are so large that they think that no one could possibly fool them would IMO be upset with such a discovery. Me, I know better. I know full well -- from experience -- that I can be fooled by a good act, a good spiel, and a good costume. It's *no problem* for me to admit that. IMO the very thing that allows charlatanry to proliferate and succeed is the suckers' ego- based inability to believe that they could be fooled. That belief is synonymous for me with already being a fool. So, now you know why MMY was always laughing and giggling! It must be a real high to realize that people like you were hanging on his every word, when the instructions for TM are so simple, that I could teach TM to about anyone in a couple minutes - you and some others spent what, a decade trying to learn the mechanics of consciousness and at times you still don't seem to understand much.
emptybill: Wow! Look at all those demons. Shiva, Parvati and Ganesh are 'demons'?
turquoiseb: My guess is that at least 95% of the people on the planet who believe that there is no free will do so because of SOMETHING THEY WERE TOLD. By the spiritual teacher, scrip- tures, or religions they grew up with or adopted later... 99.9% of everything we know, we know because it's SOMETHING WE WERE TOLD. Almost everything you know is gained from the three valid means of knowledge: inference (observation), verbal testimony (guru, teacher), and the scriptures (books). We do not know anything apriori, that is, we do not know anything about a spiritual path or 'enlightenment' unless we read about it, or we are told about it. So, your belief in a 'free will' you either read about or were told about. We cannot infer a free will from experience because there is nothing in the percieved world that would indicate a a will or free will - that's is a metaphysical idea. So, it is a surprise that Barry would now adopt an idealist point of view! Can anyone figure this out?
Also, you might try using standard HTML in the rich-text editor. Xenophaneros Anartaxius: This is a test of Fairfield Life's Yahoo Groups Rich Text Editor, to see how it supports standardised character encoding. 1. Straight Double Quotes (HTML): 2. Straight Double Quotes (XHTML) 3. Curly Double Quotes (Unicode UTF-8 / Mac OS X): â â 4. Curly Double Quotes (Windows): â â [not legal in UTF-8] 5. Em-Dash (Unicode UTF-8 / Mac OS X): â 6. Em-Dash: â (Windows) This editor seems to change some content, and certain characters do not seem to display properly, especially when cut and pasted into the subject line which is why some of us might see strange symbols in certain posts. The result also depends on how a web browser is set to display characters, or how an email reader interprets characters. The changes made by this editor look OK in preview mode, but once posted the result might be different. This happened to me in a post where a sequence of Greek letters was used, and it looked fine -- until I sent it in.
I figure the unions have driven many companies to seek cheap labor overseas. Who wants to pay assembly workers $30 an hour plus benefits? I think the days of buying American are over - it's a global economy now. These are liberals like President Obama at work - there's no more 'American Business Patriotism' these days. It's looking like GE has taken control of the White House and some of our news media! It's not going to do any good to yell and scream and foment a 'revolution' like Bhairitu wants - just think about who you're voting for next time! We've got to understand there's a fundamental difference between the competitiveness of these companies and the competitiveness of America and American workers. - Robert Reich Bhairitu: Willy really is all over the map isn't he? He's now quoting Robert Reich... Your political views are radically extreme, but mine are mainstream and practical: create jobs so people can make good money and pay their own way. You are not going to get that by starting a revolution - you'd go broke in a week and probably starve to death in a month. According Robert Reich, the Dems you voted for have dropped the ball on the economy. Romney is all about job creation and that is what Americans are going to vote for. None of your economic ideas are going to be practical - like starting a revolution - that's not going to happen, since we already have a democracy. The last thing most American voters want is a revolt in the streets. People want to make good money, not participate in a radical protest over the global profits of GE. You don't even take part in a tea-party protest! You're all hat, no cattle. Under normal circumstances, this would be the time for the federal government to take bold action to ward off a double dip. For example, it could put more cash in peoples' pockets while giving employers an extra incentive to hire by exempting the first $20,000 of earnings from payroll taxes, for a year or two... Read more: 'Back towards a US double-dip' By Robert Reich http://tinyurl.com/5sbj6gp
emptybill: One of your friends? Or is he another one of your gurus? Guru Pitka is an American who was left at the gates of an ashram in India as a child and raised by gurus. Love Guru Trailer: http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j Guru Pitka: http://tinyurl.com/5ttvtvk http://tinyurl.com/5ttvtvk http://tinyurl.com/67vz5j
Romney is all about job creation and that is what Americans are going to vote for... Bhairitu: Romney will never win as Americans won't vote for a cult member. You're not making any sense. What would a candidate's faith have to do with U.S. job creation? Under normal circumstances, this would be the time for the federal government to take bold action to ward off a double dip. For example, it could put more cash in peoples' pockets while giving employers an extra incentive to hire by exempting the first $20,000 of earnings from payroll taxes, for a year or two... Read more: 'Back towards a US double-dip' By Robert Reich http://tinyurl.com/5sbj6gp
turquoiseb: My particular confirmation bias, as a firm believer in Free Will... Maybe your belief in 'Free Will' is an indicator that you believe in the 'God of Free Will'. If anyone had free will, then they would be like a God, able to change something from one thing to another thing. But, there is nobody on this forum that can turn lead into gold, or able to leap tall buildings. And, no Buddhist believes in Free Will anyway, since the Buddha taught the 'Twelvefold Chain of Causation'. To be pragmatic, you'd have to believe in some kind of 'determinism' - that everything happens for a reason - instead of believing that a God can enter into the world and cause change at will. Change, according to some Buddhists, is impossible - things don't really move around from one place to another, or change - it's the mind that moves and changes.
My reluctance to get involved in Yet Another Discussion About Free Will is based on a belief in the value of some- thing that those trying to get me to become involved seem to lack: pragmatism. One of my favorite quotes in recent years is, In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. That kinda nails my pragmatic approach to life, to philosophy, and to the discussion of both. Many people try to lure others into arguments or discussions that are abstract and purely theoretical, as if such discussions had a value other than the mental masturbation I see them as having. Me, I like to limit myself to discussing things that seem to have an actual relationship to a concept I call real life. authfriend: Actually, the current discussion of free will you're semi-obliquely referring to involved that very concern: how does the issue affect real life? In fact, both articles that were cited as a basis for the discussion were focused on applying the concept that there is no free will to reforming the justice system. It doesn't get any more pragmatic than that. The pragmatic question has, moreover, been central to every discussion of free will we've had here. snip My suspicion is that if we were to ask either of these correctors (Specifically, Dan Friedman and Richard Nelson) And, Richard Williams - I've been correcting Barry on this 'Free Will' topic for over ten years, on FFL and on Usenet. TEN YEARS!!! How many times do you have to tell Barry read the posts BEFORE he post his comments? According to Buddha, there is causation, but there is no causal agent, for the simple fact that something does not come out of nothing. According to this logic, if there is no causal agent, then there is no creator, only dependent origination. This is basic Buddhism. Subject: Uncaused Cause Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: December 19, 2001 http://tinyurl.com/4y2bzes Subject: One of four humans, not counting a dwarf! Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: August 25, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/3k8932y snip
On another forum someone posted about today being a day to celebrate those who fought for liberty. I replied wars are for profit and revolutions for liberty... You sound pretty hopeful, but in the U.S., unlike over in Europe, it's usually the taxpayers who are behind the revolutions, not the parasites that pay no federal taxes. You mean the parasites like General Electric who pay no federal taxes? So, you're thinking that a company like GE, that creates jobs, would have a revolt by it's employees because the employees have to pay federal income tax? And it's the young we are motivating to revolution. What would your revolution slogan be? We pay no federal taxes and we want to pay even less? Or, We revolt because GE creates jobs that pay good money? Go figure. raunchydog: What jobs? GE has cut 20,000 American jobs over the previous decade. And now we have the U.S. government paying GE billions of dollars after that company makes billions in profit. GE has transformed from a major company working towards labor rights to a financial services conglomerate whose modern business plan has not benefited the average American. Go figure. I figure the unions have driven many companies to seek cheap labor overseas. Who wants to pay assembly workers $30 an hour plus benefits? I think the days of buying American are over - it's a global economy now. These are liberals like President Obama at work - there's no more 'American Business Patriotism' these days. It's looking like GE has taken control of the White House and some of our news media! It's not going to do any good to yell and scream and foment a 'revolution' like Bhairitu wants - just think about who you're voting for next time! We've got to understand there's a fundamental difference between the competitiveness of these companies and the competitiveness of America and American workers. - Robert Reich
...I'm on the free will side, but don't see how the question can be resolved logically. turquoiseb: IMO only those indulging in confirmation bias believe that ANY philosophical question can be resolved. :-) There are millions of proofs for determinism that can be cited every day - shit flows downstream and everything falls down. There is not a single proof for the existence of a 'Free Will'. Can you think of one? If there was a free will, you could fly up into the air and hover or change lead to gold. If there was free will, you will yourself to be enlightened and you would not have to practice yoga - you could just 'will' yourself to be anything you wanted to be. It is much more simple and pragmatic to just accept causation and forget the metaphysical. There once was a Chinese sage who, always looking up at the clouds, fell into a ditch and hurt himself real bad. So, be careful of what you believe in - like a snake picked up by the wrong end could bite you. You're already smarting from the licking you just got from Judy, so before you start posting your philosophy, THINK first.
authfriend: I *understand* that Barry is deathly afraid to read anything I write (and why), but others here have answered his questions about free-will-as-illusion as well, yet he keeps asking the same questions they've already answered. Apparently he's also deathly afraid of encountering a rational case for the illusion premise, because he so desperately needs to believe in free will. So he simply doesn't read anything he thinks might present such a case. Rather than debug the faulty routine he's created, he'd rather keep running it unaltered and have it crash every time. That way he can point to it triumphantly and proclaim, See? I told you it doesn't compute! Garbage in, garbage out, Bar. Determinism is the general philosophical thesis that states that for everything that happens there are conditions such that, given them, nothing else could happen... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism Free will is the apparent ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will
Stay away from most popular entertainment. Most of what passes for legitimate entertainment is inferior or foolish and only caters to or exploits people's weaknesses. turquoiseb: This sentence has just accurately described all of the works of William Shakespeare. Just sayin'. :-) Did Shakespeare have a TV series? Maybe I missed it, but obviously you've read all Shakespeare's works, right? Quick! Name the three daughters of King Lear. You are quite slow! Goneril Cordelia Regan Now, which of these are Shakespeare comedies? A Comedy of Errors Romeo and Juliet
do.rflex: It's mainly due to our own actions that negatively affect nature... Somebody got really mixed up about karma! In general, followers of the Buddhism and many followers of Hinduism traditions consider the natural laws of causation sufficient to explain the effects of karma... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
In religious terminology, this is called the will of God... I'm much more comfortable with a more Buddhist view of the universe in which everyone has Free Will... There are no Buddhists that believe in a 'Free Will' because that would mean that they ascribe to the 'soul-monad' theory. A person would have to have a soul in order to have a will. In order to have a soul, the soul-monad would have to be a permanent, non-changing entity. But, nobody has ever seen a 'soul' or can describe it, because the belief in a soul is just a metaphysical speculation - a soul is not an object of cognition - it is merely another *belief*. So, it is really surprising that Barry would reverse himself now after ten years and state that he now believes in a Soul entity that has the power to change things and events, IMO. Go figure.
authfriend: Remember the Tea Party guy who famously yelled at his congressman, Keep your government hands off my Medicare? That's Barry: Keep your determinist hands off my free will! Xeno, excellent job of laying things out. I don't think it'll do any more good than explaining to the Tea Partier that Medicare has always been in the hands of the government, but it was worth a shot. Very well done. That's 50 and out for me. Well, actually people pay for their Medicare out of their payroll deductions over the course of their career, but their point is that they are opposed to Obama cutting 500 billion from Medicare and want Obama to keep his hands off. But, Barry thinks his free will can enable him to make better decisions - yet he doesn't seem to realize that almost everything he knows about the will, he read in books or he was told it. Nobody just instantly thinks they have free will - it takes a lifetime of intellectual persuasion for anyone to deny the obvious truth of causation, which we ALL experience every single day.
do.rflex: Paranoid Fox News chief Roger Ailes Don't you just hate those GOP 'teabaggers'! Subject: S.C. Teabagger Rally Fizzles Author: John Manning Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon, alt.religion, soc.culture.jewish, alt.atheism, alt.bible.prophecy Date: May 23, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/4yjd2mh
Bhairitu: Your tax dollars at work... Oh my Gawd, a jet plane flew over and disturbed the liberal hippies in the park on Memorial Day. This is just outrageous!!! Police said the gang members are part of a group of more than 1,000 youths who have used social media sites like Facebook to plan unruly gatherings on the beach on three of the past four nights... 'Fights break out at Carson Beach' http://tinyurl.com/3nhasaj
Bhairitu: On another forum someone posted about today being a day to celebrate those who fought for liberty. I replied wars are for profit and revolutions for liberty... You sound pretty hopeful, but in the U.S., unlike over in Europe, it's usually the taxpayers who are behind the revolutions, not the parasites that pay no federal taxes. The anger that fueled the Arab Spring is now boiling over in Europe. Could club-wielding protesters be in America's future, too? http://www.newsweek.com/2011/05/29/mad-as-hell.html
On another forum someone posted about today being a day to celebrate those who fought for liberty. I replied wars are for profit and revolutions for liberty... You sound pretty hopeful, but in the U.S., unlike over in Europe, it's usually the taxpayers who are behind the revolutions, not the parasites that pay no federal taxes. Bhairitu: You mean the parasites like General Electric who pay no federal taxes? So, you're thinking that a company like GE, that creates jobs, would have a revolt by it's employees because the employees have to pay federal income tax? And it's the young we are motivating to revolution. What would your revolution slogan be? We pay no federal taxes and we want to pay even less? Or, We revolt because GE creates jobs that pay good money? Go figure.
turquoiseb: I have to admit, as a lifelong fan of the cinema, that some of the best cinema I have been privileged to see in recent years wasn't in movies per se, but on television. Stay away from most popular entertainment. Most of what passes for legitimate entertainment is inferior or foolish and only caters to or exploits people's weaknesses. Avoid being one of the mob who indulges in such pastimes. Your life too short and you have important things to do. Be discriminating about what images and ideas you permit into your mind. If you yourself don't choose what thoughts and images you expose yourself to, someone else will, and their motives may not be the highest. It is the easiest thing in the world to slide imperceptibly into vulgarity. But there's no need for that to happen if you determine not to waste your time and attention on mindless pap. - Epictetus Having recently re-watched episodes of Spartacus: Blood and Sand and Game Of Thrones, I come away from the experience reminded that -- despite what Marshall McLuhan opined -- the medium is *not* the message. Only the message is the message. Both TV series contain some of the best writing, plotting, direction, and acting I have seen in recent years. For example, even if the Emmy Awards do not notice, I can think of few better performances in recent years by an actor than Viva Blanca as Ilythia or Sean Bean as Ned Stark. Both of their performances are transcendent of the characters they play, and their inner qualities. I repeat my movie crit thesis. A great movie is the counterpart of a great short story. There just is not enough time in a two-hour movie to do justice to a great myth or story. But television! In the wrong hands, it can be the lowest of artforms. In the right hands, it can be the highest. Oh,Yeah!!! The Hangover Part II http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1411697/
Beautifull news from Mongolia Vaj: The Global Bad News? Other rajas will follow and have sex with the best of the young women, as a demonstration of the real Maharishi effect! Is that a big deal? At least three of your own gurus apparently had sex with young women. What's up with that? Just be honest. Maybe you're biased, so why would anyone believe what you say about TM or Buddhism, or anything else?
Stay away from most popular entertainment. Most of what passes for legitimate entertainment is inferior or foolish and only caters to or exploits people's weaknesses. turquoiseb: This sentence has just accurately described all of the works of William Shakespeare. Just sayin'. :-) Did Shakespeare have a TV series? Maybe I missed it, but obviously you've read all Shakespeare's works, right? Quick! Name the three daughters of King Lear.
As one who leans toward determinism, I'm pleased to see such a clear explanation from Harris of why the standard notion of free will is untenable... authfriend: At any rate, terrific find... Well, this is one thread we probably will not see Barry responding to. I'm still laughing that Barry got 'determinism' mixed up with 'pre-destination'. LoL!!! That is, just like Descartes, we still believe (much as we pretend otherwise) that there is a magic component to human behavior. Here I argue that the way we use the concept of free will is nonsensical... http://www.pnas.org/content/107/10/4499.full Yesterday I made one simple post about M.O. (Modus Operandi), relating it to a theoretical FFL poster's oft-stated beliefs in the non-existence of free will, contrasted with that theoretical person's M.O. of continually -- for *years* -- attacking and berating other people for not using their free will. I pointed out that this doesn't make any sense... Subject: M.O., cont. (cool, calm free will harassed by Bloody Loco determin Author: TurquoiseB Forum: Yahoo! FairfieldLife Date: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:45 am http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/272642
...to justify a variety of immoral actions including having affairs with his students. Vaj: Yeah, Baleskar... Do all of your teachers share this tendency?
Bhairitu: The beasts hate that and have conspired to drive people out of their homes so they can buy them for pennies on the dollar... So, you've been squatting on the native inhabitants' land for what, 100 years, and now you think you own the land that was theirs, and they are the beasts? You're not even making any sense - the natives were here long before you guys from Europe came and took their land. If you're not interested in the money, just deed over your house and land to the original owners or their descendents.
Vaj: If Mahesh thinks that he is backed by Shankaracharya, then what is proper on his part is to tell people to take initiation from Shankaracharya... Stupid idiot - ordinary people can't take 'initiation' from a Shankaracharya, unless they are Brahmins! But, anyone can take initiation from a 'yogi', no matter what caste they come from. What an idiot. Obviously this Swami Svarupanand is a caste-monger of the lowest sort!
As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis... turquoiseb: You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. So, as a computer professional, and a regional coordinator, you did not keep a database of your student initiations? Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. Incredible!!! Have you not heard of a file cabinet or an address book? You took their money and you were their TM Teacher, promising them enlightenment in 5-7 years fer chrissakes!!! I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. All Vaj has to do is name his initiator and what TTC he attended. It's that simple - I mean if he was at MUM, Rick would probably know him, right? Or, at the least someone would know him! But, what is really bizarre about this is that, what would Vaj be, if it turns out that did NOT get initiated into TM? That would certainly make Vaj a freak, if nothing else, for posting to TM groups for the past ten years! We can already see what a compulsive freak Barry is, after he quit TM practice nearly thirty years ago, and he still thinks that posting to Yahoo! FFL is his most important accomplishment. Go figure. It's funny, but Vaj won't admit that his gurus were Swami Rama, Trungpa Rinpoche and Kalu Rinpoche. I wonder why he makes the claim that MMY was his guru? Where is Dr. Pete when we need him?
feste37: So, you poison your spiritual teacher, then for the rest of your life you choose to sit directly under his portrait, give him credit for everything you have done and are doing, and thank him by name after every speech or lecture you make. Does this scenario make any sense? No, none at all. Everyone knows that MMY would not have been able to become the next Shankaracharya at Jyotirmath. So, why would MMY think that by murdering his own guru, he could profit from it? It doesn't make any sense. But, there is no record of a Shankaracharya being murdered, in the whole history of Bharatvarsh! It's not mentioned in the Indian Press except by Vaj on FFL.* *With the exception of OldBluIce on Usenet, who tried to start a rumor that SBS was murdered by the Jyotirmath cook, who was not even with SBS at the time, down in Calcutta. Go figure. Read more: Conspiracy Theories - The Cook Did It! http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/shantanand3.htm 'Inside the Jyotirmath' http://tinyurl.com/y9sx55
Duveyoung: Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel... Only if you accept Vaj's premise that of all the meditation techniques known to man, TM is the only one that does NOT work. What's funny about this is that the meditation Vaj promotes, is the same thing as TM practice. So, ergo, NONE of the meditation techniques work as promised. Draw gun, shoot foot. In fact, TM is not the CAUSE of an enlightened state; TM just provides the ideal opportunity for the transcending. NO technique will cause a person to become enlightened and nobody can enlighten another. Not to mention the fact that Judy has proven Vaj to be a big fibber about MMY and TM. Where I come from, Ed, silence usually indicates agreement.
Apparently President Obama's call for Israel to accept a peace agreement based on the 1967 armistice lines is not a new proposal - it's the same proposal presented by Bill Clinton in 2000. authfriend Again: NOBODY HAS SUGGESTED RETURNING TO THE 1967 BORDERS AS A SOLUTION. Not Obama, not Clinton, NOBODY. You are incorrect, and in fact it is Hamas that will use the 'return to the 1967 borders' as a precondition for further peace talks. President Obama has apparently taken the side of Hamas. But, I seriously doubt that Israel will swap East Jerusalem and the Western Wall in a swap for a few apartments built on the side of a hill! Hamas is the determining factor in Palestinian decisions, Andrews said to TPM. They have yet to renounce [Hamas'] acts of terror. They are the ones who think that a Palestinian state should start with a return to the 1967 lines, and I think the President ratified that position... TPM: http://tinyurl.com/3c7pvbt The Hamas leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, said on Saturday his government was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders... Haaretz: http://tinyurl.com/37tx3yr The conditions included Israel's retreating to its pre-1967 borders and releasing Palestinian prisoners... YnetNews: http://tinyurl.com/3zyoxx8 You keep leaving out the crucial phrase: with mutually agreed swaps. This has been U.S. policy for *decades*. It means you *start* with the 1967 borders, and then make adjustments to those borders, one after another-- you give us this, we'll give you that--until both sides are satisfied with the new borders. THAT will be the solution. Whether you think that will work is *irrelevant* to the issue of what the policy is and has been. Let's review: The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that 'the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.' --From the joint statement by Clinton and Netanyahu, November 11, 2010, posted on the Web site of the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From Obama's speech: We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps. Non sequitur: IOW, when Dear Bibi claims Obama's speech represents a change in U.S. policy that throws Israel under the bus, he's lying. Not only is it *not* a change, *he himself is on record as agreeing with it* on his own country's foreign affairs Web site only a little over six months ago. Now he's trying to throw a monkey wrench in the bus's engine by pretending there's anything new about Obama's policy. And U.S. right-wingers--like you--are going along with Bibi's lie in an attempt to make Obama look unfriendly to Israel. It's despicable. Not to mention dangerous. As Feste just said about the wacko right, they'll say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad lightEvidence? No need to bother with it. Just get the smear out there and watch it do its work. This kind of stuff says more about the accusers than it does about the accused. And it's not just that they have no need to bother with evidence; they have no need to take account of *contrary evidence*. They just pretend it doesn't exist. Shameful. Disgraceful. Inexcusable.
Well, it looks like Obama wants to return to the 1949 border lines. authfriend: No, it doesn't look like that at all. yes, it looks like it - but the starting point for Hamas is that Israel does not exist, so that would make 1949 the starting point. The Gaza Strip continued to be occupied by Egypt. At first it administered the territory through the All-Palestine Government and then directly from 1959 until 1967, when Israel occupied it following the Six-Day War...Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip or Egypt were issued All-Palestine passports. Egypt did not offer the Palestinians citizenship... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
feste37: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light... Compared to the left-wing radicals on FFL, Vaj seems to be pretty mainstream - he can't stand people who take up for the Islamic terrorists. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Ed Schultz has been suspended from MSNBC for calling conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham a right wing slut on his syndicated radio show... http://tinyurl.com/3cjp5nv
Turquoiseb: The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down... In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it... Besides avoiding negative energy and sharpening the mind, computer work brings in a lot of money, the main requirement for membership in Lenz's group. Costs range from US$20 a month for neophytes to, at one point, US$3,500 a month for advanced students, according to ex-members who showed cancelled checks verifying payments of US$2,000 to Lenz's group... 'Controversial guru coming to Santa Fe' The Santa Fe New Mexican March 24, 1992 'Computer Cult: Is the Leader Here?' The Santa Fe Reporter March 25, 1992 Read more: Subject: Take Me For a Ride -- Epilog, Part 3 Author: an113729 Newsgroups: alt.buddha.short.fat.guy Date: Friday July 15, 1994 http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/14.epil-3
You do know that before Israel was founded that Jews and Palestinians lived side by side in peace? authfriend: In any case, nobody has suggested returning to the 1967 borders as a solution. That's just a blatant, deliberate falsehood. Apparently President Obama's call for Israel to accept a peace agreement based on the 1967 armistice lines is not a new proposal - it's the same proposal presented by Bill Clinton in 2000. The 1967 lines define the boundaries of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, east Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, which were all captured in the war from Jordan, Egypt and Syria... San Francisco Chronicle: http://tinyurl.com/3sy7qh4 Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel, in fact, made such a proposal to the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, in 2008, as the two sides rushed to complete a peace deal before Mr. Bush and Mr. Olmert left office... New York Times: http://tinyurl.com/42pebm8
As usual, you just make these things up, and quote them as if they are facts. Then when confronted on your statements, you run away like a little girl and never respond when criticized... sparaig: Its a bit silly for Vaj to say these things since BalRaj Maharishi's picture is still on the bottle. If he had REALLY objected, he could have sued to have it removed... Sort of like when Vaj claimed that MMY was not authorized to teach a basic meditation technique, yet everyone knows that SBS's successor, Swami Shantanand Saraswati, helped found the SRM in India and fully supported the teaching of TM for forty years.
The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Vaj: Actually I said he was a leading suspect. MMY being a leading suspect in the death of a Shankaracharya would have been mentioned in the Indian Press, right? To the best of my knowledge, no criminal lawsuits were filed against anyone, on the basis of the poisoning theory... The Jyotirmat.ha S'an.kara-ca-rya Lineage in the 20th Century: http://indology.info/papers/sundaresan/
Follow him and be free. Vaj: That'll be $49.95. What happens to all the money?
And they thought Bush was ignorant. Royal Flush! http://tinyurl.com/3d84jqd http://tinyurl.com/3d84jqd
Well, it looks like Obama wants to return to the 1949 border lines. authfriend: No, it doesn't look like that at all. yes, it looks like it - but the starting point for Hamas is that Israel does not exist, so that would make 1949 the starting point. Get some smarts, Judy. Until the Jordanian and Egyptian refugees in the West Bank and in the Gaza strip recognize the state of Israel, there is going to be no 'starting point' for peace in Israel. Mr. Netanyahu told Mr. Obama, in front of the media in the Oval Office on Friday, that the president's call for peace talks based on Israel's borders before it gained new territory in 1967, with negotiated land swaps, was a nonstarter... Wall Street Journal: http://tinyurl.com/3fmyco9
emptybill: Thermo-nuclear warefare is their destiny and their end... It would be suicide for Israel to return to the 1967 armistice between Jordan and Israel in order to support a two-state solution. Such borders would be indefensible and would lead to the destruction of Israel and millions of Jews. Can you say never again? So, why do you suppose that, if the Arab countries are so interested in helping their people, why have they denied them citizenship with the right to work in Jordan or in Egypt? This isn't about any pre-1967 borders - this is about the PLO and Hamas and the de-legitimizing of the state of Israel because they hate Jews. Over 1.5 million Europeans were raided, enslaved and sold between 1500 and 1800 AD... Well, it looks like Obama wants to return to the 1949 border lines. Maybe he is thinking the Israelis will give back the Golan Heights to Syria; take from Jordan the entire West Bank and give it to the PLO; then the Israelis could build a double fence from Jerusalem all the way to the Egyptian Gaza strip, with a nice road in between, so the Hamas leaders could drive up to the Jewish Western Wall! Read more: The president made waves on Thursday when he stated, The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps. Many analysts interpreted his remarks as a bold, new policy statement that the United States would pressure Israel to revert to its 1949 armistice lines... Huffington Post: http://tinyurl.com/43dfsxn
TurquoiseB: Richard Williams, the troll from Texas, picked up the same mindset from her and has been doing the same thing, for almost as long... Actually, I've been criticising you only since you called me a 'troll from Texas', and showed everyone your petty prejudices based on a person's birth circumstances, TEN YEARS AGO on Usenet - had nothing to do with Judy. Go figure.
It would be suicide for Israel to return to the 1967 armistice between Jordan and Israel in order to support a two-state solution. Such borders would be indefensible and would lead to the destruction of Israel and millions of Jews. Can you say never again? authfriend: From a joint statement by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued by the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, November 11, 2010: Swap the Western Wall in Jerusalem for a few blocks of apartments built on a hillside? Get real! Apparently Barack Obama is now thinking that the Israelis will give up the the Western Wall so that Jerusalem will be the capitol of a new Palestinian state - a return to the 1967 armistice. Israel is never going to agree to this swap and Israel is never going to return the Golan Heights it won from Syria in the Six Day War. It is totally impractical to have a new Palestinian state separated into two parts with a highway connecting the two in order to make it a contiguous state. Israel is never going to negotiate a two-state solution if it involves negotiating with Hamas, the current ruling political party in Gaza backed by Iran. That would be an act of suicide, fer sure. Suicide, national or personal, is rarely a wise career move, so I believe we can be pretty certain that Israel will ignore your suggestion. But your invocation of 1967 is by no means barren. I was talking to a friend last night who had this alternative suggestion. Leave Israel alone and roll back the U.S. Government to its 1967 size... President Obama's Excellent Idea: http://tinyurl.com/44csz4g The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that 'the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.' http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2010/Joint_statement_PM_Netanyahu_US_Sec_Clinton_11-Nov-2010.htm
History is clear, nations are built on war, with a strong army and war comes prosperity... Bhairitu: So there is big money in the legal murder business, eh? So, you're a radical extremist with a penchant for conspiracy theories? Based on what you've just written, the Cain/Palin ticket is looking really promising. Obviously, you're going to vote for Ron Paul instead of Mitt Romney. Go figure. He took a liberal state, with a hard-left legislature and a massive defecit, and somehow balanced the books without sending taxes through the roof. If fiscal restraint is the Tea Party's number one issue, how is this guy not the Tea Party favorite? http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/121203/
Alex Stanley: Barry finds himself in an afterlife where absolutely every surface is a mirror. Well, at least Barry called you by your real name instead of calling you by your email address! I've told him at least fifty times over the years that my name is Richard. Go figure. After TEN YEARS of reading posts by Barry, he still has not changed - probably never will. Barry is so obviously prejudiced based on birth circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if he still supports the Indian caste system. But, just for the record, I'm moving to Weed, CA. to retire and buy myself a pot farm, so Barry can henceforth call me 'WillyCal', if it makes him feel better to dehumanize me. LoL! WillyTex -- Emerges from the Bardo to find himself still in Texas. Nothing has changed. Nothing will ever change.
Duveyoung: Tell me I'm wrong, I dares ya! It would be an enormous relief if the recent attacks on the science of global warming actually indicated that we do not face an unimaginable calamity requiring large-scale, preventive measures to protect human civilization as we know it. - Al Gore http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/ http://globalwarminghoax.wordpress.com/
do.rflex: Tzipi Livni, leader of Israel's opposition Kadima party, also backed Mr Obama's two-state solution... In reality, it would be a three-state solution: Gaza, West Bank, and Israel. What would you do, build a road with walls on either side to connect the West Bank to Gaza? Go figure. Or, split Jerusalem down the middle with a fence keeping the Jews away from the Western Wall? If you want to return to 1967 borders, why not give the Golan Heights, the West Bank and Jerusalem back to Jordan and make the refugees Jordanians - they have a democracy in Jordan, right?
You sound pretty guilty - of joining a religion - and you're not elite enough from being considered part of the masses! It sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand religious mind control! Bhairitu: What religion would that be? Hinduism. So, what happens to all the money your guru sends over to India? What money? All the money he sends to his wife and kids and all his relatives in India and donations to the leaders of the Hindu Tantra religion in Tamilnad?
They want my head on a pike for eternity! Bastards...! Sal: Well said Curtis Don't you just hate those Milanarians and dooms-day fanatics! Less than 10 years. That, Gore warns, is all the time that leading scientists say we may have before we cross a point of no return -- unless we make a really good start toward dramatic changes to combat global warming http://tinyurl.com/3gpt9aq In politics, millenarianism is often, but by no means always, linked to radical ideologies that share a similar belief in a transformation of society. These can be based in secular or religious ideas. In this way millenarianism is closely linked to Apocalypticism... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenarianism
Bhairitu: BTW, did you hear the one that the reason Obama hasn't been seen pinning medals on the SEALs... Why pin medals on people if you are going to charge the same outfit with torture for getting the information that bin Laden was in Pakiistan, leading to his killing by U.S. Forces? Everyone knows that Obama is going to face murder charges for invading Pakistan and killing civilians without declaring in congress a state of war. In addition, a senior U.S. intelligence official told NBC News investigative producer Robert Windrem that both Mohammed, who was repeatedly waterboarded by the CIA, and al Libi, who was aggressively interrogated but not waterboarded, provided the nom de guerre of the courier... MSNBC: http://tinyurl.com/6f9p7nh
What religion would that be? Hinduism. Bhairitu: Better brush up on reading the Gita again... Cut the bullshit - everyone knows that Hinduism is a religion and tantra is a Hindu cult. You're guilty - just admit it! What money? All the money he sends to his wife and kids and all his relatives in India and donations to the leaders of the Hindu Tantra religion in Tamilnad? Why do you believe he does that? Have you asked him? Maybe your guru has no wife and no children, and no relatives, and no religious friends in India?
If you want to return to 1967 borders, why not give the Golan Heights, the West Bank and Jerusalem back to Jordan... You do know that before Israel was founded that Jews and Palestinians lived side by side in peace? authfriend: In any case, nobody has suggested returning to the 1967 borders as a solution. That's just a blatant, deliberate falsehood. President Obama was right to stick by his call for Israel's 1967 boundaries as a starting point for peace negotiations with the Palestinians... Baltimore Sun May 23, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3tanw9c