[FairfieldLife] Allan Ginsberg - the Sunflower Sutra
http://www.tinyurl.com/2xpc8s Sunflower Sutra I walked on the banks of the tincan banana dock and sat down under the huge shade of a Southern Pacific locomotive to look at the sunset over the box house hills and cry. Jack Kerouac sat beside me on a busted rusty iron pole, companion, we thought the same thoughts of the soul, bleak and blue and sad-eyed, surrounded by the gnarled steel roots of trees of machinery. The oily water on the river mirrored the red sky, sun sank on top of final Frisco peaks, no fish in that stream, no hermit in those mounts, just ourselves rheumy-eyed and hungover like old bums on the riverbank, tired and wily. Look at the Sunflower, he said, there was a dead gray shadow against the sky, big as a man, sitting dry on top of a pile of ancient sawdust-- --I rushed up enchanted--it was my first sunflower, memories of Blake--my visions--Harlem and Hells of the Eastern rivers, bridges clanking Joes Greasy Sandwiches, dead baby carriages, black treadless tires forgotten and unretreaded, the poem of the riverbank, condoms pots, steel knives, nothing stainless, only the dank muck and the razor-sharp artifacts passing into the past-- and the gray Sunflower poised against the sunset, crackly bleak and dusty with the smut and smog and smoke of olden locomotives in its eye-- corolla of bleary spikes pushed down and broken like a battered crown, seeds fallen out of its face, soon-to-be-toothless mouth of sunny air, sunrays obliterated on its hairy head like a dried wire spiderweb, leaves stuck out like arms out of the stem, gestures from the sawdust root, broke pieces of plaster fallen out of the black twigs, a dead fly in its ear, Unholy battered old thing you were, my sunflower O my soul, I loved you then! The grime was no man's grime but death and human locomotives, all that dress of dust, that veil of darkened railroad skin, that smog of cheek, that eyelid of black mis'ry, that sooty hand or phallus or protuberance of artificial worse-than-dirt--industrial-- modern--all that civilization spotting your crazy golden crown-- and those blear thoughts of death and dusty loveless eyes and ends and withered roots below, in the home-pile of sand and sawdust, rubber dollar bills, skin of machinery, the guts and innards of the weeping coughing car, the empty lonely tincans with their rusty tongues alack, what more could I name, the smoked ashes of some cock cigar, the cunts of wheelbarrows and the milky breasts of cars, wornout asses out of chairs sphincters of dynamos--all these entangled in your mummied roots--and you there standing before me in the sunset, all your glory in your form! A perfect beauty of a sunflower! a perfect excellent lovely sunflower existence! a sweet natural eye to the new hip moon, woke up alive and excited grasping in the sunset shadow sunrise golden monthly breeze! How many flies buzzed round you innocent of your grime, while you cursed the heavens of the railroad and your flower soul? Poor dead flower? when did you forget you were a flower? when did you look at your skin and decide you were an impotent dirty old locomotive? the ghost of a locomotive? the specter and shade of a once powerful mad American locomotive? You were never no locomotive, Sunflower, you were a sunflower! And you Locomotive, you are a locomotive, forget me not! So I grabbed up the skeleton thick sunflower and stuck it at my side like a scepter, and deliver my sermon to my soul, and Jack's soul too, and anyone who'll listen, --We're not our skin of grime, we're not our dread bleak dusty imageless locomotive, we're all beautiful golden sunflowers inside, we're blessed by our own seed golden hairy naked accomplishment-bodies growing into mad black formal sunflowers in the sunset, spied on by our eyes under the shadow of the mad locomotive riverbank sunset Frisco hilly tincan evening sitdown vision. Allen Ginsberg Berkeley
[FairfieldLife] Poet Ginsberg: The Maharshi and me
at http://www.tinyurl.com/2p7pvh Allen says MMY is dim-witted in politics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What are other groups saying about Maharishi?
---Used car salesman. Would that be Werner Erhard of est fame? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: I'm on a few spiritual forums, and on only one of them has Maharishi's name even come up. Hey, Barry, you forgot to mention your other favorite spiritual forum: It is a real blessing that now we can read the full text of the self-serving little used-car salesman's efforts to make a name for himself at the expense of Guru Dev and everything good that Guru Dev once stood for. TM-Free Blog: http://tmfree.blogspot.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: tony nader and bevan are stupid, maharishi is not in heaven
---Precisely! and btw; promoting just the technique is problematic since TM is fully entrenched within the Holy Tradition, part and parcel of Sanatana Dharma; all wrapped within a cake. The frosting on the cake is the outer covering of what people call religion. So, no, one cannot really separate TM from Hinduism. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nadarrombus royboyunity@ wrote: maharishi is not in heaven, any sane person who has studied his knowledge knows that one of the goals of yoga is to stay away from heaven. you have to come back to earth after you burn your good karma in heaven. maharishi wrote about this in his translation of the gita. why does tony treat the situation as if he is talking to young children. it is as if the catholic church is burying a pope. maharishi had his limits in what he could achieve and the most obvious to me is the poor intelligence of the leaders he left behind. fortunately humanity is surely going to have to evolve beyond the illusion of leadership. not only do we not need these strange ego personalities and their delusions but they hold back real peace and fulfillment. individual independence of conscious awareness has always been manipulated in this way. treat others as ignorant children for their own good. it is obvious that the leaders of the tmo fall flat of their stupid faces when they perform and that is just a shame. i love you maharishi but you sure did attract some creepy garbage. not that your listening to me from heaven. by the way the vedic descriptions of heaven are of a seemingly endless music and sex orgy party. so tony thanks for that fantasy, maharishi in your mind is getting his groove on with the celestial nymphs!!??? You can only blame MMY for their stupidity! They're Yoga dummies! MMY couldn't afford to teach real Yoga, he would have had to compromise his Thru the window of *science* we see the dawn of the Age of Enlightenment dream! Science can only teach true Religion (Sanatana Dharma) so far and then you fall head long into Religion...the real home of Yoga, from which it is best taught and understood! So be it, many benefited none the less!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: My work is done Farewell
---Question to anyone: What was MMY's original objective?. Was it accomplished...if not fully, what %? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An MUM Governor-faculty member sent this to a friend, as fairly accurate notes of today's most historic time of all time I am grateful for this warm send off of invincibility to the whole world for all times to come. Now today I am closing my designated duty to Guru Dev. I can only say live long in peace, happiness, prosperity, and freedom from suffering. Today this farewell marks the establishment of invincibility for all mankind under silent capable rulership of Maharaja Nader Ram and the capable guidance of all the ministers and all the glorified minds in terms of all dignity, delight in invincibility for every country. For every country and my satisfaction that I offer is to the lotus feet of Shri Guru Deva. Prime Minister offer my blessings to Guru Dev and offer my blessings of invincibility, his everything to the blessings of Guru Dev. This will provide all glories to life. Jai Guru Dev. Express my delight that world for all millennia will be a happy world. Brahmananda Saraswati Trust will be a glory for the entire world and take the world to invincibility and that is my delight. World is going to be a happy world for all millennium to come. The future of the world is bright and that is my delight. From another source Maharishi-Jii (1-9-2008): I would like to make a wish and see if all the Rajas can give Me a gift. Somewhere or everywhere we want the Rajas to ... We want to perpetuate this some ... For invincibility because we have had the honor of creating the invincibility for the world and we want to make it really a perpetual shrine for the world. A place of ... Should think of a memorial of the world transformed into invincibility. Will all the rajas consider where it can be created? I feel just now My work is done. My work is done. On whatever day we would like to create a memorial for an invincible world. Just talk for five minutes and see if I deserve such a gift. I have really, really completed My work. ... It was the creation of invincibility for the world ... We want to see if all the Rajas will give Me a gift of, what? I have completed My work and that's it. This is a good point that has come out. These 48 Bramananda Saraswati Nagars - where we should build them; and where we should have invincible towers in the world? I will leave it up to the Rajas. I would like a gift of having achieved the goal. See if I deserve that because the history of the world will never be the same. All the countries - where you would like to have a memorial of That the world will never be the old suffering world. I think I have done whatever can be done, and I am very sensitive about it. I'm making an appeal to the Rajas. Do it in the name of Guru Dev - in the 48 cities. We want to associate our success with Guru Dev, and Guru Dev with the Jyotir Lingas Rajas, continue for five minutes and then give Me a farewell. Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:unknown 117.jpg (JPEG/«IC») (00425CA0) I have to open the petals of knowledge that are still calling me to put the attention and open-open the lotus flower petals and make the petals in the opening. Nothing should remain hidden from view, either from the level of Being, from the level of intellect, from the level of mind, from the level of behaviour-all these different values of knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. 'Just that example, the lotus petals are closed. They will open up. And they only can be opened up from inside. Lotus petals have to be opened from inside, from the gap within, which is level of pure knowledge.- Maharishi, 11-22- 2007 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1218 - Release Date: 1/10/2008 1:32 PM
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stumbleupon vs TM
---Interesting anti-TM diatribe. Who wrote that, Manning? -ro-flex? OK, what's his (Manning, if you're reading this...) solution to life's problems. Do nothing? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.suggestibility.org/surprise.php Stumbleupon.com finally sent me to the above site -- that's the first anti-TM anything from Stumbleupon for me -- after a couple hundred clicks, but still, who's clicking on this page often enough to have it move up the list until the likes of me are served the page? Edg
[FairfieldLife] Re: The truth about flying, Cc in 5-8, etc.
---True, but not all paths have the same objective. Some want the 72 Virgins. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Steve, that sounds really sensible. steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really enjoyed reading your post Curtis.Very well said. Occassionally there are some really good things written here, you just have to filter thru the nonsense sometimes. The link t oGuru Devs page was great. As for Steve Shimer, I knew him well in his later years in napa,calif. we were hanging out with shree Maa at her ashram. He was married to Kathy Unger. He became an acupuncturist and was a truly humble soul to the day he dies in Aug of 2005. We put his body into the crematorium right there at the funeral home in Fairfield, calif. he and kathy had justurned me on to deeksha a few weeks prior to his passing. The chemofrom his cancer treatment killed him. As for meI love meditating twice a day. Shree Maa once commented tha tMMY had used good dung(fertilizer) on me. My meditations are deeper and more blissful than ever. I think the deeksha is responsible for that and I have had more profound experiences since the deeksha than I had in almost all the previous 30+ years of just doing the TM and TM siddhis. just my observation. MMY got millions of us off onthe right foot. The rest is up to us. It was a good start and we had some great and memorable times and made some great friends. imho NO ONE HAS ALL THE ANSWERS. Not MMY, Amma, Shree maa, AMMABHAGAVAN, SAI BABA etc. I feel respectful to allpaths as long as they are not fundamentalists about it and try t osave me. Ramakrishna has said As many people, so many paths. Om namah shivaya __ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Regarding Judy's Comment/ Is Ego an I or a Me?
---No, you're wrong. In a broad definition of individual, one can define an entity as become composed of relative components that do not converge on a entity called the I. Thus, Ramana Maharshi is definitely an individual, otherwise he would not dare use such words as I and me in the context of one person vs. another. The term individual doesn't automatically imply that the person is claiming a convergent false I. One can be an individual and yet be composed (relatively speaking) of the many components that make up the holographic personality: Such components include the body, mind, habits, clothes, manner of interacting, speaking, etc. Nowhere is anybody claiming that such an entity as an individual also has a false I. Are you saying MMY is not an individual? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- yagyax [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, the false I does vanish but this is only one component of what makes up a person, which distinguishes one person from another: MMY is not SSRS, etc. What distinguishes MMY from SSRS are space/time qualities. Of course these are different from one another. They have distinct personalities shaped by genes and environmental factors. But what they are, what is there instead of a separate sense of me is exactly the same as one another-just consciousness. That's what makes up an individual, in the broadest sense or definition. No. What makes up an individual is not the space time parts of a personality, but the subjective sense of I that is identified with those parts. In Realization, all the parts are still there, but that identity is completely gone. Everything is still there as before, but now there is no subjective I that can be located. What has occured is the cessation of consciousness identifying with mind. In this broad context, rocks can be individuals since each of them differs from the others. Thus, semantics enters into the picture, true. Rocks have no self-referential consciousness so they are not individuals. __ __ Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/
[FairfieldLife] individual clarified
Individual defined as: (online dictionary). 1. a single human being, as distinguished from a group. 2. a person: a strange individual. 3. a distinct, indivisible entity; a single thing, being, instance, or item. 4. a group considered as a unit. 5. Biology. a. a single organism capable of independent existence. b. a member of a compound organism or colony. 6. Cards. a duplicate-bridge tournament in which each player plays the same number of hands in partnership with every other player, individual scores for each player being kept for each hand. The above definition includes entities which upon closer inspection, are composed of components making up a unit, as opposed to other units. The defintion says nothing about a false or delusional I; which is simply another component. When the false I vanishes, other components that make up the individual such as body, habits, manner of speech, etc; remain, and it is these components together as a unit that is the referent when the person himself/herself (as MMY, Ramana, etc), says I or me, AFTER getting Enlightened.
[FairfieldLife] Crows (Schmopcircles (Re: New Cropcircles))
-`Be that word our sign of parting, bird or fiend!' I shrieked upstarting - `Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore! Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken! Leave my loneliness unbroken! - quit the bust above my door! Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door!' Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting coincidence below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: **snip** I love crows. A friend of mine turned me on to an old text from Tibet, which he had published privately, written in an archaic Sanskrit in the 9th century and called the Kakajarita. (more properly kAka- cAritra, On the behavior of crows). Kaka, much like that familiar sound Caw! Caw! is the Sanskrit work for crow. The text was translated by a pandit named Danacila into the Tibetan language as Bya-rog-gi skad brtag-par bya-ba, or Investigating the Cries of Crows. It eventually found it's way into the Buddhist Canon, the Tanjur, and thus became a commonly used text there. TMers can relate to it as what the presence of crows indicates from the POV of Unity Consciousness. Here's some of it: Divination through observation of crows in Tibetan tradition is founded on the following principles: 1. Crows are of varying distinction and intelligence, therefore notice must be taken of the varying classes of crows. 2. Crows respond to events with characteristic behavioral patterns, therefore by noting the character of the response one may learn the character of the event. 3. Crow behavior and response differs according to time of day. 4. The angle of direction between the observer and the crow has significance. The general predictions governing crow calls are given as follows, categorized by the time of day and the direction in which the call is observed. First Watch 6:00 am - 9:00 am East: Wishes will be fulfilled Southeast: An enemy will approach South: A friend will visit Southwest: Unexpected profit will accrue West: Great wind will rise Northwest: A stranger will appear North: Scattered property will be found Northeast: A woman will come Zenith: A demon will appear Second Watch 9:00 am - 12:00 pm East Near relatives will come South Flowers and areca-nuts obtained Southwest Numerous offspring West You will set out on a distant journey Northwest One king replaced by another North Good news will be received Northeast Disorder breaks out Zenith Fulfillment of your wishes Third Watch 12:00 pm - 3:00 pm East: You will obtain property Southeast: A battle will arise South: A storm will come Southwest: An enemy will come West: A woman will come Northwest: A relative will come North: A good friend will come Northeast: A conflagration breaks out Zenith: You will gain profit by being taken care of by the king Fourth Watch 3:00 pm - 6:00 pm East: Great fear predicted Southeast: Great gain coming South: A stranger will come Southwest: A storm will rise in seven days West: Rain and wind will come Northwest: Scattered property found North: A king will appear Northeast: You will obtain rank Zenith: Hunger predicted Sunset East An enemy appears on the road Southeast A treasure will come to you South You will die of disease Southwest The wishes of one's heart fulfilled West Relatives will come Northwest Obtaining property predicted North Homage will be done to the king Zenith You will obtain advantage you hoped for General Observations Crow on right: good journey Crow behind: you obtain siddhi A crow flapping his wings, calls: great accident Crow pulls human hair: death Crow eats dirty food: food and drink about to come Crow on thornbush: enemy Crow on milksap tree: milkrice to you Crow on withered tree: no food and drink Crow on palace: excellent halting place Crow on divan: enemy will come Crow facing door: peril at frontier Crow pulling dress: dress to you Crow on skull: death Crow with red thread on house: fire **end** In the waning days of the Merv wave I was teaching TM outside of Philadelphia (Chestnut Hill/Erdenheim) and a young man, Carlos, already a meditator, contacted me and asked me to initiate his dying, elderly mother who was bedridden in her home somewhere in North Philly. I gave her the first two lectures in one and arranged to come and do the initiation in her bedroom where she was confined. When I came back the next day after initiation for the first day of checking she told me that she had heard a crow call to her outside her bedroom window (south, if I recollect correctly) during her first
[FairfieldLife] Re: From a realized devotee of Ramana Maharishi
--thanks, I have that book; but he's incorrect: the mind doesn't die. An I associated with mind-identification dies. Mind was a medium by which the message of Sri Lakshmana was conveyed to David Godman. Therefore, it's very much alive. Also, shortly after Lakshmana realized the Self, he went to Ramana and handed him a piece of paper saying I have realized the Self. Ramana then smiled in a silent acknowledgement. Again, mind was part of a process through which the message was conveyed. It was alive before his Realization and also afterwards. False identification died, not the mind. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Non-Dual Viewpoint on mind, levels, vision The following is a quote from Sri Lakshmana Swami, a realized devotee of Ramana Maharshi, from No Mind - I Am The Self; The Lives and Teachings of Sri Lakshmana Swamy and Mathru Sri Sarada, (p.102-3) by David Godman. Question: What are the different stages or levels of the mind that one passes through before realising the Self? Sri Lakshmana Swami: Mind is only thoughts. The more easily you can be without thoughts, the nearer you are to a direct experience of the Self. To make the mind die you must deprive it of thoughts. The effortless thought-free state is the highest level of practice. There are no states or degrees of realization, there are only stages of spiritual practice. The final stage of sadhana is this effortless thought-free state. If this state can be maintained, then the I will sink into the Self and it will experience the bliss of the Self. These experiences are only temporary; the I will continue to reassert itself until the moment of realization. Realization can only happen in this effortless thought-free state, for it is only in this state that the Self can destroy the I- thought. The I-thought, which is the mind, must die completely before Self-Realization occurs. Question: How is one to make the mind die? Sri Lakshmana Swami: The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death; it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like the theif who poses as a policement in order to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape. SImilarly with the mind. The mind will engage in sadhana, thinking it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink into the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the mind's self-defence mechanism, and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need the grace of the Guru. When you concentrate on the name and form of the Guru, or try to be without thoughts, the grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it to overcome the fear which would otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. Question: Whyis it necessary for the mind to die? Sri Lakshmana Swami: The mind must die, there is no other way to realize the Self. Some people say that complete equanimity of mind is Self-Realization, but this is not true. Thius is only a stage one passes through on the way to Self-Realizaiton. Other people say that seeing the Self or God everywhere is Self-Realization, but this is not true either. To see the Self everywhere there must be an I who sees, and while that I exists the mind will also exist. The jnani does not see anything because the seeing entity in him has died. In the Self, there is no seeing, only being. When the mind still exists one can reach a stage where one can see the whole world as a manifestation of the Self, but when the mind dies, there is no one who sees and no world to be seen. If you have a mind then the earth, the sky, and the stars will exist, and you will be able to see them. When the mind dies there will be no earth, no sky, no stars, and no world. The world of objects, names, and forms is only the mind, and when the mind dies, the world dies with it. Only the Self then remains. Seeing everything as the Self gives the impression that the Self is equally distributed everywhere. This is also an idea in the mind. When the mind finally dies you realize that there is no distribution and no everywhere.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris, New Article
---quite true, authfriend, I like your analysis! Looks like she was on the verge of a genuine spontaneous breakthrough into pure Consciousness (the Presense mentioned); but the organized Church is basically incapable of providing a nurturing environment for such development; since although there are major differences between Catholocism and Evangelical theology, the bottom line is that the Christian experience is all about one's dualist relationship to Jesus, not a direct experience of the nondual Presence. Thus, she was destined to find no sympathy for nondualism in the Catholic Tradition. She might have taken the course of action taken by former Nun Karen Armstrong, who was able ultimately to clearly distinguish between Fundie dualism and the experiential wisdom of Gnosis. She chose the latter and became a best selling author, (leaving the Nunnery far behind). In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: He's so intellectually dishonest. He says, Teresa's response to her own bewilderment and hypocrisy (her term) reveals just how like quicksand religious faith can be. But then he doesn't tell us what her response *was*, so his comparison of religious faith to quicksand is just an empty assertion. I think it was her reaction that makes this a story at all, she kept quiet about it carrying on with her I have a special relationship with God routine. That's what I thought he was referring to. But he didn't say any of that. I think he didn't have a clue how to describe her response so it would fit with his quicksand analogy, so rather than discard the analogy, he just left out anything about her response and hoped nobody would notice, just as he hoped nobody would notice that he failed to say anything at all about what had been the motivating force of her entire life, what she perceived to be the experience of God's presence. That's why she started the whole Calcutta deal, after all. She was on her way to a vacation from her order when she believed she heard God's voice telling her to start a mission to help the poor and homeless instead. It was only after she had overcome all kinds of obstacles and actually managed to get the thing going that this sense of presence suddenly vanished, for the first time in her life. It's no wonder Harris didn't know how to characterize her response; he left out what she was responding *to*. She wasn't bewildered because she was having doubts, she was bewildered because God seemed to have left her in the lurch, shut her out of his presence. Of course *one* of her reactions was going to be to begin to wonder whether God really existed, but from what I've read of those letters, most of her questioning had to do with why God had deserted her and how she was supposed to deal with that. I'm no big fan of Mother Teresa, by the way. I just am appalled at the cavalier and dishonest way Harris dismisses her struggle.
[FairfieldLife] Re: An Inspiring Visit to Baba Muktananda
---Somebody mentioned that an insult naming an anatomical part would be inappropriate. Saythe part that follows from go suck your.. Of course, this would be the elbow since that would not only be inappropriate, but impossible for most people. Instead of medications, I would recommend DHA plus PS (phosphatidylserine). The PS part is often overlooked but this is a safe brain nutrient and can be beneficial to children. Check out http://www.phospholipidsonline.com PS carrying DHA omega-3 is a pivotal molecule for brain function. ells of the healthy brain incorporte the two into their membranes as needed. Taking PS against a background of good DHA status is likely to be more beneficial than taking PS without having sufficient DHA in the body. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote: Dr Peter Sutphen wrote: Richard should consider going back on his antipsychotic medication. Quack! Thank you for your healthy response, Richard! It appears to be given in the same spirit that I told you to return to your antipsychotic medication. Some people really got bent out of shape regarding my rhetorical flourish in my attempt to say, You're crazy. Someone mentioined apologize. For what? And I thought Richard was crazy! Funny, I explained in some detail what the problem was, then went through it all again when Peter asked me directly, but he apparently never read any of what I wrote. That way he can continue to pretend he doesn't know what the fuss is all about. Wouldn't you just *love* to have him as your therapist? Such integrity...makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, don't it? Judy, I haven't replied to your post yet because I read it once and when I returned to it the next day it was gone because for some reason I only can keep a certain number of post in my mail box. Your original argument was ridiculous when you claimed that I had violated some sort of confidentiality with Richard and could only say what I did if I had his informed consent. You embarassed yourself with such an absurd argument because you obviously do not understand the nature of a confidential relationship, who holds the priviledge of confidentiality and what informed consent is. If you do understand these terms then your usually sharp intellect was clouded by your emotions. Your second argument, however, does have some merit IMHO. It refers to behavior by psychologists in a non-professional context where some people could attribute more authority to their words or behaviors because they know they are a psychologist. The APA struggles with this one to. In this instance with Richard I basically was calling him crazy using rhetorical excess based upon my knowledge of psychological disorders and medications to treat those disorders. The intent of this was a clever insult. Some of you took this way too seriously and assumed I was seriously diagnosing Richard and then revealing some sort of confidence in asking him to return to a specific anti-psychotic medication. It was a joke. Abuse of power? I could see how it could be taken this way. But it seems that Richard as well as many other got my intent. Others misunderstood it and I understand why they did. But apologize? PLEASE! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ __ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search? fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidscs=bz
[FairfieldLife] Buddhist Britney
http://theworsthorse.net/brit.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jesus Did Not Die For Our Sins.'
--The bottom like is what is the meaning of redemption, of the purported substitionary death? I haven't seen any difference in the karma of fundie Christians and others. They seem to pay karmically just as others; if so, then the payoff could be after death? This is speculative. Personally, any allusion to redemption independent of Enlightenment is off the mark. Since E. is not incorporated into orthodox Monotheistic religions, these religions are a partial mismatch between claims (salvation,etc...) and the nondualist goal. But OTOH, the concept of Resurrection differs from E anyway. Resurrection refers to physically dead people, who will (supposedly, through Divine intervention) have their physical molecules reassembled into a perfect incorruptible body. (Cf. the words of St. Paul). In the Rapture theory, physically alive people are translated into a Heavenly state, vanishing from the earth. In the Jehovah's Witness concept of the future, physically alive people are awarded perfect physical bodies and remain on an earthly Paradise, (if they are not among the 144,000). There's no evidence of Jesus going to India. The monotheistic concepts of Resurrection and Rapture are markedly different from what's involved in non-dualist Hindu/Buddhist/Gnostic Sadhanas. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/4/07 11:50:47 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , MDixon6569@, MDi In a message dated 9/4/07 10:19:12 A.M. Central Daylight Time, MDixon6569@ MDixon6569@ In _FairfieldLife@ In _FairfieldLife@W (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) ) , MDixon6569@, M snip [quoting Isaiah] And because of what he has experienced, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of one who is mighty and great, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among those who were sinners. He bore the sins of many and interceded for sinners. Nothing about this servant's being the only-begotten Son of God, though, is there? Mighty and great, but nothing about being divine. There are approximately 127 prophesies in the Old Testament, might be a few more, none give all the information. However, Isaiah 53- 2 My servant grew up in the Lord's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a dry root in dry and sterile ground. I believe is referring to the virgin birth. Maybe (although it could be a reference to a previously barren woman suddenly being able to conceive by normal human means). But it's not explicitly about the servant being the only-begotten Son of God. It was John the Baptist who said that when he baptized Jesus, he heard the voice of God say This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased. But that's in the Christian Scriptures, it isn't a prophecy from the Hebrew Scriptures. The prophecy does say he is without sin and the Bible does say that no man since Adam has come into this world without sin. Just how *mighty and great* would one have to be to take on the sins of the world. Be exposed to death, to rise and have a multitude of Children and heirs and have kings stand before him speechless, clearly a reference to his Divine reign as King of Kings. Sorry, but it's not an explicit characterization of the servant as the only-begotten Son of God. One last thing to ad here is that Isaiah also said the suffering servant did no wrong and deceived no one and if indeed this prophecy is about Jesus, Jesus always referred to God as my Father. Only once does he call Him God and that is when he had became the embodiment of sin on the cross and said my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me. Of course there are many other examples of Jesus referring to himself as the Son of God and the Son of man. Son of Man, yes, a common expression referring to human beings. But none to being the only-begotten Son of God. Referring to God as Father is, of course, standard in Judaism, so that's no indication of anything. My point is that the Hebrew Scripture prophecies refer to an extraordinary human being who is obviously favored by God but do not indicate that he is to be of uniquely divine origin or status. That was an invention of Christianity that isn't found in the Hebrew Scriptures, and it's why Jews do not accept Jesus as their Messiah. John 10, 32-38 Jesus said , at my Father's direction I have done many things to help the people. For which one of these good deeds are you killing me? They replied,not for good work,but for blasphemy, because you , a mere man have made yourself God. Jesus replied, It is written in your own law
[FairfieldLife] Re: Heaven on Earth?
---It's either us getting control of the oil or them. Better us! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) Robert, we understand your point. But we cannot just criticize the system in this one particular country. IMHO, the attitude is pervasive throughout the world. Even here in the USA, one can find versions of this story. We are not allowed to marry four wives at a time, but we can get married to a person one at a time without any limit. (snip) Perhaps I'm just jealous, but I really don't care how many woman a man has sex with or vice-versa. This takes place all over the world, not just in Islamic countries; it is just not out in the open. What I am upset about is, I talked to a guy, who used to be in the military, but now works as a private contractor in UAE. He says there is so much money there because of the oil reserves, and that everyone drives a Mercedes... So, I guess what upsets me is the waste, and inequality in the way things are on the earth right now. We fight for oil in order to maintain our lifestyle, which includes big houses we don't need, SUV's that we don't need, and so on. It's just a big lie what we are fighting for. We are fighting to control the oil, plain and simple.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mother Teresa's Dark Night
---they could be extraterrestrial aliens, in which case they would be hatchlings. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, martyboi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was walking down a street in SF once when I came upon a clutch (gaggle, swarm, school?) of her sisters walking towards me. I heard they were running an AIDS hospice in the neighborhood. It seemed to me that they were doing a walking meditation as they appeared to have an interior focus and were manipulating their Rosary beads as they walked. They had such a kind and careworn look, with bright little eyes that shown out from wrinkled apple faces. One women in particular had a glow that was particularly radiant. Our eyes met for a second, and I saw infinity, love and abundant grace. I dunno about you, but I just want to hug those people!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Huen Tsiang on Uddiyana
---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garab_Dorje In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, billy jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Huen Tisang was as real/unreal as you or me. Uddiyana was as real/unreal as the USA. The muslims jihadists who murdered everyone and turned uddiyana into a wasteland were as real/unreal as the murdering jihadists today. What other real/unreal uddiyana are you referring to in your comment? If you are talking about the mythic dimension, as in Shambhala, then you need to address Vaj (Vajranath) on this forum. He claims to have a mythical, personal guru - Garab Dorje in fact. Perhaps he can talk with Garab Dorje for you. Perhaps he'll call himself TertonDorje and initiate a series of Mind Terma-s, just for you. Worth a try. Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neat, now what about the real Urgyen? - Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'The Twelve Disciples of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi'
---Below: Robert says we don't get Enlightened in order to perform magic tricks. First, true Siddhis are not tricks, by definition. Second, my POV is different. The whole point of Enlightenment is to reach a platform where (having captured the fort); one is in a position to evolve further in the relative and to acquire genuine Siddhis. Then, make use of the Siddhis for the benefit of mankind. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: --But none of these people can perform actual Siddhis. The disciples of Jesus [along with Paul] performed numerous miracles according to tradition, and some mentioned in ACTS; even raising the dead. The most MMY's disciples can aspire to is Doug Henning's magic tricks, not even on your list. s, go on, Between those fine linens? Well, that's exactly the same response we got from Pontius Pilot at the time: 'So, you are the King of the Jews, huh, Jesus, that's what I hear on the street?' 'So, let's see you perform one of your miracles, Jesus, Especially the one that is going to get you out of here, alive... Ha, ha! Can't perform Jesus?, Well, I'll just wash my pretty Roman hands of you! We don't become enlightened to do tricks- trix are for kids... We become enlightened to finish our earthly path, and to help other's t finish their's. We become enlightened to Know the Truth. We become enlightened to tell enlightening stories. We become enlightened whether we want to or not. Robert Gimbel 2007
[FairfieldLife] Re: If I were Jerry Jarvis . . .
--Be that word our sign in parting, bird or fiend, I shrieked, upstarting- Get thee back into the tempest and the Night's Plutonian shore! Leave no black plume as a token of that lie thy soul hath spoken! Leave my loneliness unbroken!- quit the bust above my door! Take thy beak from out my heart, and take thy form from off my door! Quoth the Raven, Nevermore. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: snip I'm quite a wonderful person, by most standards, but remember that Shakespeare ended the what a piece of work is man soliloquy with Why it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapors. Well, not exactly. Here's the speech (not a soliloquy; he delivers it to Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern, explaining that King Claudius has sent for them to try to jolly him, Hamlet, out of his depression): I have of late,--but wherefore I know not,--lost all my mirth, forgone all custom of exercises; and indeed, it goes so heavily with my disposition that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory; this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire,--why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason! how infinite in faculties! in form and moving, how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension, how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals! And yet, to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me; no, nor woman neither, though by your smiling you seem to say so. In other words: He's very clear--remarkably clear-- that it's not that he's suddenly realized that the earth is really nothing but a congregation of vapours, or that other people have no more value than dust. He's not passing judgment on the earth and human beings, he's saying there's something wrong *with him* that he can't take pleasure in their magnificence. It's a perfect description of the experience of clinical depression (say I, having also experienced it). Hamlet's not the only Shakespearean character who gives a good account of depression. Here's Macbeth: Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow Creeps in this petty pace from day to day To the last syllable of recorded time. And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player Who struts and frets his hour upon the stage And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing. I had a minor epiphany awhile back thinking about this soliloquy, and how it might be performed very differently: not as a descent into despair, but as an awakening, as a sudden realization of Self, of liberation. Here I've been going through all this agony of guilt and fear, and--it's meaningless! What have I been beating my head against the wall for? I'm not this walking shadow, this poor player strutting and fretting, and I never was. I envision the actor starting out sunk in utter misery. But by the time he gets to It is a tale told by an idiot, he begins to get it. And after signifying nothing, he breaks out in a peal of astonished, joyful laughter. Macbeth, the serial murderer, goes from the Dark Night of the Soul to emergence into the Light in ten lines. What a genius, that Shakespeare. Nice surfing Judy-- Beautiful!:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: conversation with Dana Sawyer
---except for the natural drugs (neurotransmitters) produced by your own body, some of them similar to the drug DMT. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: Yet Jim in a post yesterday dismissed the analogy of acid induced states of being as not valid because they were not permanent. Though it was Rory who said that, I did want to add that the quid pro quo regarding drug induced or enhanced spiritual experiences is that the experiences *are* produced by the drug, and so whatever the drug adds to the body and mind in order to produce an effect, must necessarily be depleted afterwards, so there is a net zero effect. The most commonly known of these depletion results is the alcohol induced hangover. This see-sawing of the physiology makes it impossible, as your friends noted, to induce permanent spiritual change solely through drug use, no matter how insightful the drug induced experiences might be.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Song for Barry and Judy: Onward TM Soldiers
---Onward TM Soldiers: Onward, TM soldiers, marching as to war, With the cross of The Mahareeshee going on before. King Nader, the royal Master, leads against the foe; Forward into battle see His banners go! Refrain: Onward, TM soldiers, marching as to war, With the cross of Bevan going on before. At the sign of triumph Satan's host doth flee; On then, TM soldiers, on to victory! Hell's foundations quiver at the shout of praise; Brothers lift your voices, loud your anthems raise. Like a mighty army moves the church of Brahman; Brothers, we are treading where the saints have trod. We are not divided, all one body we, One in hope and doctrine, one in charity. Crowns and thrones may perish, kingdoms rise and wane, But the church of the Holy Rajas constant will remain. Gates of hell can never 'gainst that church prevail; We have Bevan's own promise, and that cannot fail. Onward then, ye people, join our happy throng, Blend with ours your voices in the triumph song. Glory, laud, and honor unto MMY the King, This through countless ages men and angels sing Nice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Sung to the tune of the Beatles' It won't be long. Every day, when everybody has fun Here I am, planning another put-down I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong...but I'm more right than you. When you go, everyone is so nice Lots of smiles, flowers, sugar and spice I'll cross my tts and I'll dot my is 'cause I know if I don't You won't be nice, you won't be nice! Every night, I just simply can't stop Planning put-downs you won't be able to top. I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong...but I'm more right than you. Every day, we'll go on as before Through the years, until both of us are no more. I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong, yeah (yeah, yeah!) I could be wrong...but I'm more right than you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM in its original and pure form IS a Religion!
--- But why in the world would one want to be internalized in a disasociative state oblivous to the outside world? The idea that such a state of Samadhi is somehow an advanced symptom of Spirituality was propagated by Ramakrishna, who frequently went into Samadhi, all the while traveling (according to his own account) in some higher dimension while his body seemed like a corpse. Later out- of-body explorers duplicated Ramakrishna's behavior but after further development declared that such disasociative states were more symptomatic of a lack of Spirituality than true integration. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 12:46 PM, authfriend wrote: go into it at will and often chose the duration. This makes it easier to measure. Being insensible to surroundings is easy to measure. While the subject is in samadhi, you plunge the arm into ice cold water and look for a response to physiological measurements. Testing the startle reflex is another relatively simple test. That's a test for your (and Das and Gastaut's) definition of samadhi. And it isn't even an EEG test. Ooops! Actually their research was the first to discover the direct correlation between samadhi and high-amplitude gamma waves... Between their definition of samadhi (they refer to it as a state of mental concentration) and gamma waves, you mean. Vaj, you've made some high-sounding claims that you haven't even begun to document. But Judy, give him some slack. This is clearly the FIRST such lapse. :)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advice Sought
-- Below - primordial sounds prior to mantras. (Precisely the point of the Sant Mat Gurus!)the so-called Yoga of Light and Sound. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On May 23, 2007, at 11:49 AM, John Davis wrote: The concept/fact of the TM mantras being older than the Hindu religion, and so also older than the gods named after them, which might then be seen as personalisations of a pre-existing sound, makes a good deal of sense to me. Unfortunately, it is untrue. The mantras all come from ancient tantric traditions and are related to the gods they are associated with up to this day. TM mantras are not vedic, they are tantric. Be rather leery of anyone who tells you otherwise. There's a common myth in the TMO that TM mantras are Vedic (or I've even heard people claim they were from the Rig Veda!). It's simply untrue. Good luck! Hi John, The point can be made that vibration brings creation into being- certainly works with music! So if a sound is associated with a particular God, it follows that the primary characteristics of that sound precede as you say the personalization of that sound. The personalization of the sound is secondary, being associated with the 'discovery' of the God that it creates. Whether someone catalogues these sounds and dispenses them from a particular tradition, and what that tradition might be is then tertiary to the sound's origin, and the creation emanating from it. So whether the mantras are vedic or tantric doesn't matter at all- just that they work, and as you know they do work. I wish you the best of fortune with your ongoing practice of TM. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Ram Gidoomal, Hindu convert to Christianity
http://www.tinyurl.com/ypre54
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Two Paradigms = thanks Jim
-Seeing into the Buddha fields is irrelevant, unless you define it (the seeing of something) rather broadly. Did Shankara see into the Buddha fields? Did Ramana Maharshi.?? How about: seeing into the Ramana Maharshi fields as a requirement, or seeing into the SBS fields?? -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 20, 2007, at 3:24 PM, llundrub wrote: Did they all see into the Buddha fields? Then they were not awakened, just perhaps not dreaming any longer. So true.
[FairfieldLife] Re: time does not exist
---thanks, all has to do with the arrows of time; ie. about 8 semi- distinct (but all related) apparent, real, (or both) groups of phenomena which point to a linear progression of events which people interpret as time. Among the various arrows, physicists are MOST interested in the Entropic arrow of time, first elucidated around the turn of the 19-th to 20-centuries by Ludwig Boltzmann.; especially as it relates to Cosmology (investigated now by people like S. Hawking and A. Linde of Stanford). The problem with such cosmological studies is getting experimental data; as opposed to (say) molecular and atomic physics where one can observe the trajectories of particles in a cloud chamber. The various phenomena you mention (below); are key ingredients in the cosmological arrow of time which physicists like Hawking are investigating with a view to at least (short of outright proof); coming up with a plausible hypothesis. But even on that level there is much disagreement. The very first step is to ascertain whether there is a real arrow of time in physics, and not some illusion. It appears the answer is yes (again, strictly in the relative sense, since from the Neo- Advaitin POV, nothing exists anyway, so why bother!). In terms of quantum particles, the question of the existence of an arrow of time is somehow connected to chirality; i.e. right vs left- handedness. In other words, IF an arrow of time exists, then mathematical physicists are allowed to say things like IF, THEN this would imply that(...). For example, say a cosmic ray particle enters the earths atmosphere and it twists right or left. An equivalency might (I'm more or less making this one up) be something like: If an arrow of time exists, then we can expect more right twisting particles than left. Thus, short of actual proof, scientists look for circumstantial proof. The MOST important physical entity relating to an arrow of time is the Cosmic Background Radiation, left over fromt the Big Bang. But this begs the question (as you suggest), how and why is the universe winding down from the Big Bang. Of course, we know the answer (Hee hee!!): the universe is built on turtles,.all the aaa down!. Thus, the cause of any given turtle is the one below. If this sounds like an infinite regress, then check this out: http://www.tinyurl.com/26vmed ...but in answer to your question as to why galaxies die; we only have various hypotheses to go on. Of course, one could say that various universes (as eggs within the total Meta-universe or Metaverse). ...undergo cyclical incarnations; but those incarnations also seem to have an arrow of time. Mystery!. Another mystery is that most of the arrows exist only on a macro level. Time is fully reversible on a quantum level. The question of decoherance enters here. At what point does an Entropic arrow of time enter the picture? (ie. if you examine matter on a quantum level, then atomic, then molecular, etc; attempting to pin down how, when, and where the arrows of time enter the picuture is probably as difficult as ascertaining when GRAVITY enters the picture. (pointing to the biggest unanswered question of physics: reconciling quantum reality with the known facts about gravity). Another unanswered question pertains to Roger Penrose's speculations on the nature of MIND, (mind/brain); and to the extent to which mind participates in quantum reality. Given the notion that the mind is a quantum computer, then it should be capable of virtually instantaneous (and statistically correct ont he whole) findings!. Judging from the abundance of disagreements on this forum, it appears that there could be some glitches to Penrose's hypothesis. Either that, or there's an information glut: the various disagreements arise to the plethora of conflicting data. I suspect that most of the data is in perfect agreement. It's only the personalities that are in conflict. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting post. If time does not exist, why do people, civilizations, planets and galaxies die? I once read a passage from Swedenbourg, a European mystic, who stated that time does not exist in heaven. There are only changes of events. The angels and inhabitants of heaven apparently can remember all of the changes since they have attained enlightenment and immortality. Back on earth, we cannot remember well nor do we live forever. So, time is part of the manifest universe, just as the other three dimensions. Regards, John R. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, coshlnx coshlnx@ wrote: i.e. not from a neo-Advaitin point of view since nothing exists from that point of view. From a strictly relative point of view, Barbour argues that time doesn't exist. As a physicist, he has to support this by a mathematical proof or an abundance of
[FairfieldLife] Re: OffWorld on The Two Paradigms
---IMO : the pure (Consciousness only) neo-Advaitin viewpoint begs the question of why in the world one would even talk about Enlightenment, or even accept something such as the statement of a neo-Advaitin Guru such as HWL Poonja: Ye are already Enlightened. Doesn't make sense. If they are already Enlightened, then who needs Poonjaji to tell them?? I have a hypothesis: The neo-Advaitins have the need to fork over money for special courses, where the Gurus readily accept the money in payment for telling them they're aleady Enlightened!. It's a money making POONJA-SCHEME Hee Hee!!! In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip the two most prevalent approaches to Self Realization. Although there are more than two, of course, I think that one can safely sort them into two piles. The first pile has a label that says, Believes in the concept of non-enlightenment, and the existence of things that can prevent enlightenment. The second label says, Believes in the ever-present existence of enlightenment, that one is always already enlightened, that the only thing necessary to be enlightened is to *realize* that you already are enlightened, and that no obstacles to that realization can or do exist. Good start. Existentialism, and its opposite...Existentialism. It seems to me that TM and many other forms of spiritual development fall into the first box, Except that the most common phrase used by Maharishi over 50 years is the Self. Think about it Turquoise. whereas some forms of Advaita or Neo-Advaita or Zen or Taoism fall into the latter. *Both* of these approaches and ways of seeing are valid, in my opinion, in that they describe reality from a particular state of attention. One's *predilection* for one description or the other is all that matters. In the I believe in non-enlightenment box, there seems to me to be a fascination with BLAME. I'm not enlightened because of my stress/my samskaras/ my sins/the state of the world/other people fucking with me/all of the above. If these things weren't present, I'd have an easier pathway to enlightenment. In the I'm always already enlightened box, there seems to be no such fixation on BLAME. It's a path that is more concerned with CHOICE. At every moment of every day, I have the choice to realize and live my ever-present enlightenment. My ability to *make* that choice is not affected by anything. Kierkegaard also focused on the deep anxiety of human existence -- the feeling that there is no purpose, indeed nothing, at its core. Finding a way to counter this nothingness, by embracing existence, is the fundamental theme of existentialism, and the explanation for the philosophy's name. While someone who claims to believe in reality might be called a realist, or someone who believes in a deity a deist, someone who believes fundamentally only in existence, and seeks to find meaning in his life solely by embracing existence, is an existentialist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Major_concepts_in_existen tialism I kinda prefer the latter path, but I understand those who prefer the former. It's a safer path, full of prescriptions for the things one must do to avoid the obstacles and become enlightened, and equally full of proscriptions against doing any of the things that prevent enlightenment. The I'm already enlightened, if I just choose to realize that approach doesn't tend to have that many do's and don'ts. What would be the point, if neither the do's nor the don'ts have any effect on one's always-already-present enlightenment? They are one and the same. They are not different. It is like the Buddhist and the Vedantist argueing about about the Self (Atman) and the no-self (Anatman). They are the EXACTLY same thing, just that people like to argue for a hobby (kinda like this board really) OffWorld Anyway, I'm just throwing this out as a potential topic for discussion. If anyone is interested in the subject, pile on. If not, carry on and use your five posts as you choose.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sullivan replies to Sam Harris
--Re: Vaj says that Tibetan Buddhist yidam worship is not really god worship and therefore (a) is dissimilar to Hindui worship - being part of wisdom oriented sadhana.(b) doesn't fall under the scrutiny of Sam Harris' attacks on faith-based religion. Nope, factually incorrect since the Green Tara provides a counterexample to the sole motive of the quest for wisdom. The Green Tara can/is worshipped in Tibetan Buddhism for the expressed purpose (aside from the acquisitionof wisdom); of the attainment of material wealth, better health, eradication of all types of bad karma (and those types of bad karma specifically mentioned in a long shopping list: such as snake bites, boils, zits, etc...you name it (clearly items beyond the scope of pure wisdom.) Overall, Green Tara worship is supposed to offset bad karma on a global scale as well as on a personal level. Thus, Tibetan Buddhist teachers have the same types of motives behind such worship as many motivated Hindus in their worship, even though such Deities are not called gods per se in Tibetan Buddhism. OK, yidams. Also, there are many Hindus who are mostly into the wisdom aspect of Deity worship and would consider it beneath them to pray for material benefits. Thus, to be consistent, the Harris/Vaj criticism of god worship would have to include a good slice of Buddhism. Since Harris claims to be a Buddhist, doesn't make him (and Vaj) somewhat hypocritical? - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tanhlnx [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Vaj, you're not making sense. Regardless of the purpose, yidam (god) worship is all the same, call it what you want; but much of Tibetan Buddhism is similar to the god-worship of the Hindus. Even the iconography is similar, say Mahakali vs the same Mahakali in Hinduism; Ganesh worship in both religions. There are countless Hindus who regard these gods as wisdom-enhancing focal points; just as in your erronous rendition of Buddhism. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 22, 2007, at 8:57 PM, coshlnx wrote: Actually, Harris is critical of god worship only in the context of faith-based religious assumptions; and states that (something like this) is OK in his world-view: When I meditate on Jesus, I feel an ecstatic Spiritual epiphany, and therefore you should try it. That's an experiential type of statement that can be tested to a certain extent; since other people can follow up on the recommendation and try it for themselves. And of course, such an experiential approach similar to this might be compatible with Buddha-dharma, albeit with a number of caveats. But the idea of no-god-worship doesn't even make sense in the context of Buddhism since Tibetan Buddhism In regards to Tibetan (or other types of Buddhism) this is a false View. (apart from some Gurus like Vaj's Chogyal Norbu Rinpoche); is heavily involved with god-worship; i.e. the Tibetan Buddhist counterpart of the gods: yidams or whatever. There's Chenrizig, the Green Tara, the White Tara, MahaKali, numerous Dharma protectors, etc. But if these are worshipped as gods, then it isn't really Buddha- dharma, sorry. Now if they are used for Wisdom-consciousness realizing emptiness, that's a different story. But a yogin worshipping a god or gods or goddesses is not part of the ethic of a mantra Bodhisattva. Even in the outer tantras (e.g. kriya-tantra) where this may appear to be the case, that is certainly not the intention nor is it the correct View of the practitioner.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sullivan replies to Sam Harris
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Feb 22, 2007, at 7:45 PM, qntmpkt wrote: As could be expected, Harris batted Sullivan's pseudo-argument out of the park into the next county. I was tempted to abandon reading the entirety of Sullivan's text after a few paragraphs, but, optimist, kept doggedly on, wondering if he'd ever begin to make sense ... but, no, it was too much to expect. Bravo for Harris's well-reasoned dismantling of Sullivan's gibberish. Fortunately--having heard Sullivan's emotional reaching long before this debate started--I've not read more than a couple of paragraphs of his recent schlock. Long story short: go out, no RUN out and buy _Letter to a Christian Nation_ and read the 21st century version of what Frederick Nietzsche had to say in the last century and learn how the delusion of belief is the greatest threat to sentient life in the history of this planet. If you cannot do that, at least take the time to watch this 20 minute video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YOIImOoYM Then, maybe then, you'll realize *why* worship of god or gods is the greatest danger we all face. Actually, extreme attachment to an idea, whether it is that TM is the bestest or that Maharishi Mahesh Yogi is a pervert, is the greatest danger we all face. Simple worship of a god or gods ranks pretty low compared to THAT. Right, but this opens a can of worms since, who would be the judge of extreme?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Why would you believe someone is enlightened? The Gita?
--- Thanks, re: MMY not publishing the 2nd half of the Gita, some speculations have arisen on this point, from different quarters. The Hare Krishnas believe that he's being ignorant, obstinate, and malicious in leaving out Krishna-Bhakti. A few others have mentioned that the inclusion of Krishna-Bhakti in impersonalist literature (e.g. most of Shankara and the Yoga Vasista) might confuse people into not being oriented toward capturing the fort first..(but instead getting involved in dualist Vaisnavism). From a Hare Krishna POV (or Swami Prakashananda - another dualist Bhakti); the most important part of the Gita would be the latter part, especially Chapters 10 and 11 I believe (which tend to rely heavily on one's dual relationship with Krishna)rather than the first 6 chapters; which may easily (and rightly) be construed from an Impersonalist viewpoint. In addition, the Hare Krishna Guru (A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami), was a Skt. scholar whereas MMY isn't; and the former claims that MMY has mistranslated key words in the BG out of ignorance and evil intentions. One of those words (Skt scholars, help out here!) might be Brahm vs Brahma vs Brahman. Of course, one can roundly dismiss the Hare Krishna group and their dualist philosophy. Just last week they were dancing around near where I live, and I yelled out OM BHUR BHUVAH SVAH, TAT SAVITU VARENYAM, BHARGO DEVASYA DHIMAHI, DEEYOYONAH PRACHODAYAT, to one of them. Then I told the Krishna girl that I had read all of the works of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami including the 26 volumes of the Srimad Bhagavatam. This really impressed her. For the most part, I wish they would dance and yell elsewhere since I'm trying to watch Court TV when they come to my street making loud noise. FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: A new topic, hopefully bias- and argumentation-free. What criteria would convince you that someone you met was enlightened? Unc Take a look at the Gita. Maharishi seems to bat about 500. Does that make him half enlightened? Then, half mortal or immoral? [...] Don't wonder why Maharishi never published the second half of the Gita? Couldn't live up to it? Can you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do you go when you die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (below): typical Neo-Advaita nonsense. The discussion pertains to the body, in the relative sense. You are making assumptions out of waking state. In realization there is nobody to go anyplace. --- Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When one has *awakened* where do they go when they drop the body? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] The Practice of CHO
http://www.tibetancho.com/Assets/Cho.html
[FairfieldLife] Nisargadatta Maharaj
One might construe N's orientation as being fully non-attached ...or not; perhaps he lacks interest in relative considerations. Being external obserers, we don't know what the true situation is for sure. It's analogous to a Turing machine test: either a computer or a real person is answering questions behind some opaque substance which blocks our vision of the speaker. We are required to guess whether the speaker is a computer or a real person, based solely on the content of the answers. Short of magical knowledge or cheating, our decision must be based on common sense considerations. By analogy, consider the case of Nisagardatta Maharaj. Is his apparent lack of interest in things relative evidence of some deeper, more profound Realization than than possessed by MMY? I think not. Simply because MMY expresses more interest in things relative than N, such as accumulating wealth, establishing Heaven on Earth, etc; this cannot (IMO) be constued as evidence that MMY's realization falls short of N's.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Nisargadatta quote
-- Nisargadata Maharaj is one of those Neo-Advaitin Nihilists who states that he's Pure Consciousness, but refuses to acknowledge his existence in the relative world. (these teachings are inconsistent with what MMY says...since Brahman has two aspects in One, not one aspect in One.). Thanks anyway for the quote...a good illustration of a 100% teaching, as opposed to MMY's 200%. Buddhism, BTW on the whole; has a pure Consciousness only school; but on the whole (C.f. the statements of the Dalai Lama) is more down to earth than Nis.'s pie in the sky Nihilism. By looking tirelessly, I became quite empty and with that emptiness all came back to me except the mind. I find I have lost the mind irretrievably. I am neither conscious nor unconscious, I am beyond the mind and its various states and conditions. Distinctions are created by the mind and apply to the mind only. I am pure Consciousness itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in a more real state than yours. I am undistracted by the distinctions and separations which constitute a person. As long as the body lasts, it has its needs like any other, but my mental process has come to an end. My thinking, like my digestion, is unconscious and purposeful. I am not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing. Life will escape, the body will die, but it will not affect me in the least. Beyond space and time I am, uncaused, uncausing, yet the very matrix of existence.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sam Harris: Reply to Nicholas Kristof
---Thanks, actually Harris is a Buddhist, (although he tends not to publicize this fact); but in any event, he's a different brand of athiest than Dawkins and Dennett. He's not a great fan of scientism, but would prefer to have rational discourses on the nature of the mind, in the context of direct meditative experience. In his worldview, there's a place for mysticism, but he has an uncertain ambivalence toward the existence of an afterlife. Since the existence of higher or unseen dimensions and an afterlife is part and parcel of Buddhism (e.g. the Tibetan Book of the Dead); Harris may have painted himself into a corner in regard to the other athiests, who don't accept the existence of an after-physical life. Einstein was a fan of Buddhism but didn't believe in a life beyond the physical. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Letters to the New York Times in Response to Nicholas Kristof's A Modest Proposal for a Truce on Religion ~~ The New York Times printed responses from Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins today (December 5): To the Editor: Contrary to Mr. Kristof's opinion, it isn't intolerant or fundamentalist to point out that there is no good reason to believe that one of our books was dictated by an omniscient deity. Most people who like the Bible, whether as a religious text or just as literature, do not regard the book as being dictated by an omniscient deity. The Bible is seen as an attempt to understand man's place in the universe, and although it clearly falls short in that respect, so do science, which only unfolds greater fields of ignorance as it progresses. Given the astounding number of galaxies and potential worlds arrayed overhead, the complexities of life on earth and the advances in our ethical discourse over the last 2,000 years, the world's religions offer a view of reality that is now so utterly impoverished as to scarcely constitute a view of reality at all. Very funny! That some shmuck in a lab coat thinks he knows what the reality of life is...that arrogant scientism is the POV that is so utterly impoverished as to scarcely constitute a view of reality at all. Tell me, Sam, how you could possibly cite our barbaric age (Hiroshima, Rwanda etc) as evidence of advances in our ethical discourse over the last 2,000 years? This is at least as pathetic as some TV evangelist railing against teaching of evolution in schools.
[FairfieldLife] what happens to your computer icons at night?
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[FairfieldLife] Dog and Lion; Lightening
--Dog and Lion: --- http://www.leenks.com/link47604.htm Lightening: http://knuttz.net/hosted_pages/Lightnings-20060810 --- --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] small creatures, Most stupid Bush statements.
---Small creatures: --- http://knuttz.net/hosted_pages/Small-Creatures-On-Hands-20060810 Most stupid George Bush statements: http://tinyurl.com/hnqs5 --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Totalitarianism in the Dome'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel babajii_99@ wrote: My Dome Rejection From Shiva Ma Ryan FWD:From Shiva Ma Ryan, My Dome Rejection Please share this letter I wrote to John Hagelin with anyone you think may benefit from it. All Love, Shiva Ma My Dome rejection Shiva Ma Ryan to John Hagelin Reading Post # 108732, was really disturbing; What gives someone the right, to manipulate another like this. I'm sure it's not the fault of Jeff Cohen, as he is 'Just following orders'. Orders sound more like Bevan's policy. Anyway, it just reminds me of a totalitarian state, or a Facist regime, or something not good. No wonder the atmostphere, is not as it could be. Stiffled and compressed; fear mongering, and control. Why, is the only question to ask? why? Her tiny little ego is just crying out to continue its illusion of 'staying alive', in the face of its pending annihilation. Not a bad thing really.. . rephrase the above: The TMO ego is just crying out to continue its illusion of staying alive in the face of its pending annihilation. Not a bad thing, really... Rest in Peace, TMO...it's about time!...upon its well-deserved demise, such people (as the contributor in question) will feel no misgivings since attachments to the TMO...(and whatever entities that entails: the dome, MMY, Bevan, tweaked statistics, dishonesty...), will conveniently no longer exist. Poof! Cheshire cat gone. abilsincludilias the conpeo0pl final To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Flying vs. Hopping - statement of Charlie Lutes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock jedi_spock@ wrote: The flying program was not wonderful. A total failure. Yogic-flying is the biggest mistake Maharishi ever made in his life. 200 years in the future, if a histrorian conducts a post- mortem on the TM-movement, his conclusion will be, Yogic-flying destroyed TM - movement. Huh. I rather like it. YMMV. Well said. Thanks, statement of Charlie Lutes, circa 1977, Yogic flying is a bunch of crap Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The diabetes - Alzheimer's connection
--- Re: US News and World Reprt, July 24, 2006, An Alarming Link; New studies say diabetes leads to Alzheimer's. Still, that raises hope for novel brain treatments. More Evidence that Alzheimer's is Type 3 diabetes: http://www.tinyurl.com/fsgy9, http://www.tinyurl.com/kzznm Controlling blood sugar with cinnamon http://www.tinyurl.com/zjov9 Lipoic acid helps fight diabetes http://www.tinyurl.com/fcwgq Cinnamon reduces blood sugar levels http://www.tinyurl.com/a2qtz --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ken stops his brainwaves: source of Vaj;'s inspired statements
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (below: Peter says E not caused by a physiological state. ) I don't believe various groups of people are saying that. They are saying correlation, not cause. We can point to at least 3 known groups of people whose supporting researchers operate on the hypothesis of correlation: 1. Academics - East and West Coast, going all the way back to Dr. R.K. Wallace's Physiology of Meditation in Scientific American. Numerous people followed up with the physiological testing of trained meditators; in attempting to find out what exactly, are the correlates to meditative states and how such states differ from ordinary waking. Lately, Dr. Herbert Benson has expanded his research into studying the effectiveness of prayer (a different topic, for FWIW, his studies revealed a slight negative correlation: the patients being prayed for (in the group told about it), faired slightly worse than the other two groups. A second body of researchers testing the physiological correlation hypothesis is of course MUM; and apart from some fudging that we might expect on any statistics coming from MUM; I think (IMO) that there's a sufficiently large body of statistics from all combined souurces to support MMY's statement that for every state of Consciousness, there's a corresponding physiological state. Note that MMY never said caused. This could be a chicken and egg question. A third group of people are Tibetan monks in various sects, who have been urged by the Dalai Lama to participate in studies investigating the connection between states of Consciousness in experienced meditators, and corresponding physiological states. The fact that an Enlightened person can jump up and down and yell demonstrates nothing at all; since he/she may have passed through the correlative states accompanying CC, GC, and UC, before BC.; and only shows that the person is sufficiently integrated so that she can particupate in intense physical activities without any loss of integration. One of the problems in testing the hypothesis (ref to MMY's statement incorporating the word corresponding - i.e. a correlation) is that there may not be enough E'd people around to satisfy academic demands for what's reasonable in terms of statistics. Surely, just a few people would be insufficient. Now, in regard to those people either a. claiming that physiology is totally irrelevant, or b. just ignoring physiology altogether; we could easily point to the Neo-Advaitins and their founders: Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj, HWL Poonja, Gangaji, etc; but although Adi Da might be considered a Neo-Advaitin, he definitely supports the practice of various sadhanas designed to purify the body, and on many occasions, he uses expressions using the terms bodily purification. Perhaps somebody more familiar with Ken Wilber can bring up some of his statements regarding this - the question of any physiological correlate to states of Consciousness. --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 6/27/06 4:52 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no physiological component to enlightenment. Any physiological component has to do with mental conditions. Restful Alertness is a condition of mind neither closer nor further away from pure consciousness than any other physiological state. But still, enlightenment has an experiential component. The perceptual apparatus, intellect, emotions, etc., are functioning differently. There must be a physiological or neurological correlate to this. Maybe not restful alertness, but something. I agree to a point, but there is no causal relationship between brain functioning and Realization. Brain functioning does not and can not give rise to pure consciousness. It is supportless. In many post people seem to imply that Realization is somehow created or supported by a particular type of brain functioning. Ain't so Joe! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] When chimps outsmart humans
--Chimps have better short-term memory than humans. http://tinyurl.com/hsnqj --- --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TISQkA/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Hawking on backward causation of the universe.
--- http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060619/full/060619-6.html --- -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] How to become a god in the Mormon universe
--- ---Now I'm wondering if the Scientology Dark Lord Xenu was one of these Mormon gods in another universe. --- http://www.utlm.org/faqs/faqgeneral.htm Interesting set of questions and answers by Evangelical Christian (and great-great-granddaughter of LDS leader Brigham Young); Sandra Tanner. She now witnesses to Salt Lake City Mormons. Here's two of her questions and answers: 16. Does Mormonism teach that God was once a man on another world and progressed to become God of this world? Yes, Joseph Smith declared: God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345- 346). Another one of their leaders coined the phrase: As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become (The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.105-106). Brigham Young preached: It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290). 17. Does Mormonism teach that good Mormons can become Gods of their own worlds? Yes, one of their leaders wrote: since mortal beings are the spirit children of Heavenly Parents, as pointed out in the last chapter, the ultimate possibility is for some of them to become exalted to Godhood. (The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.104) Brigham Young declared: Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.245). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Charlie Lutes on the Monastery that burned to a crisp.
During the 70's a large Monastery existed in the Topanga/Malibu area; which was unfortunately leveled by a fire (not surprising, since fires are frequent in those hills). In regard to the contributor a few posts back who remarked that the karmic explanation for such events often serve no useful purpose; I agree with this, even though subscribing to the notion of ultimate cause and effect (karma) connections. But since karma is ultimately unfathomable, it's difficult to pass judgement on the why's and wherefore's of particular events; especially when our hearts go out to victims of myriad forms of disasters...and more so when the victims are young children. Once at an SRM lecture, Charlie answered somebody's question on why (meaning why as to karmic meaning...did this event have some purpose?).;...the Monastery burned down. Charlie answered something like it was in the way of a hot fire. Everybody laughed. In his usual blunt, but often funny way, Charlie seems to have answered the question! On another occasion, there was a middle aged woman in the audience whose face was prematurely aged, giving her the appearance of a weird wrinkled prune. Charlie was lecturing on the topic of karma and in the context of her question, the prune-like lady said something like I haven't experienced any bad karma. Then Charlie said ...Have you ever looked in the mirror. HA...I was totally blown away !!! There were plenty of laughs, but mostly of the muffled variety, lest somebody compound the effects on the wound on that poor woman's face. I prayed at that moment that she didn't get Charlie's joke. Charlie, shame on you! Well, both are dead now, in some Heaven, all hugs and kisses. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Dudjom Rinpoche on It.
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No words can describe it, No example can point to it, Samsara does not make it worse, Nirvana does not make it better, It has never been born, It has never ceased, It has never been liberated, It has never been deluded, It has never existed, It has never been nonexistent, It has no limits at all, It does not fall into any kind of category. Nyoshaul Kenpo Rinpoche said: Profound and tranquil, free from complexity, Uncompounded luminous clarity, Beyond the mind of conceptual ideas; This is the depth of the mind of the Victorious Ones. In this there is not a thing to be removed, Nor anything that needs to be added. It is merely the immaculate Looking naturally at itself. The above from The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche, p. 50. --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Pope Benedict at Auschwitz: Where was God?
--- good question!! Where was God?' The leader of 1.1 billion Roman Catholics also prayed for peace in his native German, which he has mostly avoided to not hurt Polish and Jewish sensitivities. He was forced to join the Hitler Youth and drafted into the army during the war. Scattered rain fell over Auschwitz until the main ceremony, when the skies cleared and a rainbow appeared. Benedict said it was almost impossible, particularly for a German Pope, to speak at the place of the Shoah. In a place like this, words fail. In the end, there can only be a dread silence, a silence which is a heartfelt cry to GodWhy, Lord, did you remain silent? How could you tolerate all this? Where was God in those days? Why was he silent? How could he permit this endless slaughter, this triumph of evil? Benedict, one of the Church's leading theologians, said humans could not peer into God's mysterious plan to understand such evil, but only cry out humbly yet insistently to Godrouse yourself! Do not forget mankind, your creature! --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Kurtz: Is God needed for people to be moral?
--- Paul Kurtz says no. (Free Inquiry, June/July, 2006, p. 33 Why I am a Skeptic about Religious Claims): ...theists maintain that one cannot be good unless one believes in God. Skepticism about God's existence and divine plan does not imply pessimism, nihilism, the collapse of all values, or the implication that anything goes. It has been demonstrated time and again, by countless human beings, that it is possible to be morally concerned with the needs of others, to be a good citizen, and to lead a life of nobility and excellence -- all without religion. Thus, anyone can be righteous and altruistic, compassionate and benevolent, without belief in a deity. A person can develop the common moral virtues and express a goodwill toward others without devotion to God. It is possible to be empathetic toward others and at the same time be concerned with one's own well-being. Secular ethical principles and values thus can be supported by evidence and reason, the cultivation of moral growth and development, the finding of common ground that brings people together. Our principles and values can be vindicated as we examine the consequences of our choices and modify them in the light of experience. Skeptics who are humanists focus on the good life here and now. They exhort us to live creatively, seeking a life full of happiness, even joyful exuberance. They urge us to face life's tragedies with equanimity, to marshall the courage and stoic forbearance to live meaningfully in spite of adversity, and to take satisfaction in our achievements. Life can be relished and is intrinsically worthwhile for its own sake, without any need for external support. --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Bios -- some notable secular humanists
--- http://www.pointofinquiry.org/ --- --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Paul Kurtz: secular humanist declaration on evolution
-- from http://www.secularhumanism.org Evolution Today the theory of evolution is again under heavy attack by religious fundamentalists. Although the theory of evolution cannot be said to have reached its final formulation, or to be an infallible principle of science, it is nonetheless supported impressively by the findings of many sciences. There may be some significant differences among scientists concerning the mechanics of evolution; yet the evolution of the species is supported so strongly by the weight of evidence that it is difficult to reject it. Accordingly, we deplore the efforts by fundamentalists (especially in the United States) to invade the science classrooms, requiring that creationist theory be taught to students and requiring that it be included in biology textbooks. This is a serious threat both to academic freedom and to the integrity of the educational process. We believe that creationists surely should have the freedom to express their viewpoint in society. Moreover, we do not deny the value of examining theories of creation in educational courses on religion and the history of ideas; but it is a sham to mask an article of religious faith as a scientific truth and to inflict that doctrine on the scientific curriculum. If successful, creationists may seriously undermine the credibility of science itself. --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Sam Harris on the religious roots of history's greatest atrocities.
--- from http://www.secularhumanism.org 2. If religion were necessary for morality, there should be some evidence that atheists are less moral than believers. People of faith regularly allege that atheism is responsible for some of the most appalling crimes of the twentieth century. Are atheists really less moral than believers? While it is true that the regimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were irreligious to varying degrees, they were not especially rational. In fact, their public pronouncements were little more than litanies of delusiondelusions about race, economics, national identity, the march of history, or the moral dangers of intellectualism. In many respects, religion was directly culpable even here. Consider the Holocaust: the anti- Semitism that built the Nazi crematoria brick by brick was a direct inheritance from medieval Christianity. For centuries, Christian Europeans had viewed the Jews as the worst species of heretics and attributed every societal ill to their continued presence among the faithful. While the hatred of Jews in Germany expressed itself in a predominantly secular way, its roots were undoubtedly religiousand the explicitly religious demonization of the Jews of Europe continued throughout the period. (The Vatican itself perpetuated the blood libel in its newspapers as late as 1914.) Auschwitz, the Gulag, and the killing fields are not examples of what happens when people become too critical of unjustified beliefs; on the contrary, these horrors testify to the dangers of not thinking critically enough about specific secular ideologies. Needless to say, a rational argument against religious faith is not an argument for the blind embrace of atheism as a dogma. The problem that the atheist exposes is none other than the problem of dogma itselfof which every religion has more than its fair share. I know of no society in recorded history that ever suffered because its people became too reasonable. --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Critique of The Transcendental Temptation
--- Religion Paranormal The Transcendental Temptation: A Critique of Religion and the Paranormal by Paul Kurtz. Published by Prometheus Books. Guide Rating - Is there some basic connection between religious beliefs and paranormal beliefs? Some commonality which helps explain not only their similarities, but also why they have been so appealing to so many people throughout human history? Although there are many books which offer critiques of either religion or the paranormal, few are willing to do both, probably because people who are skeptical of one aren't necessarily skeptical of the other. But Paul Kurtz is willing to create such a unified critique, and his book The Transcendental Temptation is the result of his efforts. In it, he argues that there are some striking similarities between religion and the paranormal which can account for their natures and their popularity. The first part of the book comprises of a solid explanation and defense of both skepticism and the scientific method. There are, on the one hand, people who defend a practical stance towards knowledge and belief - people who are usually called empiricists, rationalists or skeptics. But on the other hand are people who are not content with mundane reality and who are susceptible to claims about deeper mysteries and truths which require faith for acceptance. Being a skeptic does not mean disclaiming any access to knowledge in the world - it is possible to form rational beliefs based upon the use of reason and logic. Faith, however, is the antithesis of both reason and logic. Following a lengthy critique of faith-based religious and paranormal beliefs, including Jesus and other prophets, UFOs, ESP and more, Kurtz examines one of the primary causes of people accepting such faith: what he calls the transcendental temptation. The basis for this temptation is magical thinking - the belief that people or events are magical, in that they have access to an unseen and hidden realm of power which lies behind our visible world but which can nevertheless be tapped into and used to affect our lives. People tend to associate such thinking with primitive cultures, but it continues even today and early scholars of religion, like Sir James G. Frazer, identified magical thinking as constituting the core of religion. Magical thinking, whether involved with supernatural or paranormal beliefs, requires two preconditions. The first is an actual ignorance of the natural causes of events in question, and the second is the assumption that, in the absence of an obvious natural cause, there must be an unknown and un-natural cause. These two factors in conjunction allow for the development of ad hoc explanations, often relying upon an assumption that correlation demonstrates causation. For example, praying just before something good happens leads one to the belief that the positive event was caused by the prayer. This magical thinking is certainly irrational, in that it deliberately bases conclusions upon a clear lack of demonstrable evidence and without regard for logical coherence or consistency. It is also anti-scientific because methodologically, science seeks knowable, testable and repeatable explanations for events. Science does not get involved with ad hoc pseudoexplanations which cannot be tested or understood in by any coherent means. But where does the temptation part come in? It is obvious how this magical thinking can be described as transcendental, because it seeks to find explanations which transcend our normal world and experience, but why are people tempted to accept these stories? The explanation is twofold - first our innate creativity, and second our penchant for seeking patterns. Together, they can lead people to false beliefs: The imagination draws a fanciful picture of a transcendental reality, some kind of celestial kingdom. Time and again theistic myth appeals to the hungry soul; it feeds the creative imagination and soothes the pain of living. There must be something beyond this actual world, which we cannot see, hear, feel or touch. There must be a deeper world, which the intellect ponders and the emotions crave. Here is the opening for the transcendental impulse. Yes, says the imagination, these things are possible. It then takes one leap beyond mere possibility to actuality. Religous and paranormal belief systems then become constructions of this process of imagination. The patterns we see in events in our lives become the symbols of this hidden world, open to view for those who know enough to properly interpret and understand them. They thus provide explanations for what is currently happening in our lives and tell us where we are heading in the future, providing solace on both fronts. Because of the comprehensiveness of Kurtz's analysis, this book provides valuable insights which other books on skepticism and atheism fail to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Charlie Lutes and Sidhis
--Right, Charlie wasn't interested in the Sidhis crap. The question is, what's right for YOU? Try the following program, and you will see noticeable benefits in 30 days: 1. Practice TM 2. Take one tablet of Vinpocetine sublingual before meditation. (warning - be careful if you are taking too many blood thinners). 3. Practice Ramana Maharshi total immersion - get all of the DVD's and audio CD's from Arunachala.org. Do the above and your meditations will get deeper and deeper and wrote: I heard that Charlie Lutes did not think the Sidhis were of much value but was sold out on plain TM. Is there any research which differentiates results based on Sidhis versus TM alone? I don't do the siddhis regularly. Just out of curiousity I tried the naasikaantarmadhyasaMyama mentioned in the second last of the (tantric) Shiva-suutras. After doing it for a while I noticed that the first siddhi-suutras (F, C, H, SoE[?; I have them in my own language, LOL!]...) started being more effective than before. Actually, PVTM, apart from causing the fourth praaNaayaama (caturthaH praaNaayaamaH) tends to make me feel somewhat dysthymic, but the naasika and siddhis often make me feel better in that respect (I hope that makes some sense. I'm struggling to find some meaningful expressions...) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] physics and the transcendent
Some of the early quantum pioneers considered the relationship between pure Consciousness and phenomena, concluding that the Transcendent in the context of Brahman points to analogous concepts in physics; but contrary to what MMY would have people believe, there is no physics of his Unified Field. The same term should not be conflated with Einstein's lifelong quest to unify the fundamental forces of nature. In terms of that quest, the unification applies to something relative, not transcendental. Nobel Prize winning physicist, Erwin Schrodinger says the following that relates directly to Berkeley's philosophy: In all the world, there is no kind of framework within which we can find consciousness in the plural; this is simply something we construct because of the spatio-temporal plurality of individuals, but it is a false construction. Because of it, all philosophy succumbs again and again to the hopeless conflict between the theoretically unavoidable acceptance of Berkeleian idealism and its complete uselessness for understanding the real world. The only solution to this conflict, in so far as any is available to us at all, lies in the ancient wisdom of the Upanishads. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Nope, no connection here
The QM theories of Hagelin, et al; are relative considerations and have nothing to do with the topic of Pure Consciousness. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flipped_SU(5) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Girlfriends Galore for MMY, eh?
--- HMuktananda's case differed since strong evidence points to the victims being underage. Thus, they (some, many, all?) were not adults. Thus, they were victims. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd marwincornyarmand@ wrote: I have been working with women that has been abused. And I have no doubt that a sexual relationship between the Guru/Maharishi and a devotee, is abuse. The feelings of love that we had for MMY (both men and women), the power of his charisma, made these women to victims. snip It can be difficult for men to understand how a woman feels when an unwanted person expresses sexual interest in her. What can help men get it is to think of how it would feel to all you heterosexual guys to have another man come on to you, touch you, etc etc. IN addition, there is the huge issue of abuse of power. Imagine your male guru or mentor doing it, using you. feste37 wrote: How do you know what happened? Were you there? You talk about abuse and victims but you can't possibly know what actually went on, if anything. Why are you so ready to assign blame for incidents you know so little about? I think that based on reading the Files here and the FFL discussions, she believes these things happened. In these situations there are never other people around... I just think that to call these women victims is pathetic. They weren't victims of anything. They were adult women who were free to do whatever they wanted. They weren't coerced. And as far as abuse of power is concerned, it seems to me that if these incidents did occur, it was the women who held the power over the guru, not the other way round. Except for the last point, I wholeheartedly agree. A few years ago I made this very point when someone who had been involved with Muktananda and had been abused had visited our site. After I said what I did, one of the FFL members emailed me on the side telling me how horrible I was to suggest such a thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] religious affiliation of comic Superheros
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Says Superman is Methodist and Kryptonian. http://tinyurl.com/gmk73 --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Superheros organized by religion
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (has a sprinkling of Hindus and Buddhists, but no TM'ers - as a religion). This shows that the TM'ers are unlikely to develop into Superheros without some Supernatural guidance. http://tinyurl.com/j7rpm --- End forwarded message --- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Dalai Lama : Deity yoga is the essence of mantra
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], quantum packet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note: forwarded message attached. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] hypothetical responses of Gurus
--- Imaginary scenario...what are the responses of the Gurus?: A Guru is lecturing in a hall with devotees, when some terrorist bandits come in and demand money from everyone; if the money is not forthcoming, the Guru's fingers will be cut off. Some people in the group fail to fork over their money and the terrorists cut off 2 of the Guru's fingers. Then, the police come in and round up the bandits, after which the lecture continues... [Q = question from the audience]; [R = response of the Guru]: Q: [the Guru is Nisargadatta Maharaj]: Oh Guru, how do you feel that your fingers were cut off? R: Ask, who is the I of the person whose fingers were cut off. Q: [the Guru is MMY - pronounced Maharshee - otherwise you sit in the back if pronounced Mahareeshee]: Maharshee, who do you feel that your fingers were cut off? R: A person in Unity cannot suffer. Besides, we just meditate and take it as it comes. Q: [the Guru is Ramesh Balsekar] Ramesh, how do you feel that your fingers were cut off? R: No problem, it's all part of the total functioning of the Universe. Q: [The Guru is Ramana Maharshi, addressed as Bhagavan] Bhagavan, how do you feel that your fingers were cut off? R: What is fated to happen, will happen. The best thing to do is to remain silent. --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Follow-up for Turquoise
---Effortless or not (nothing in the world is absolutely effortless btw); the key point is Transcendental awareness. If it (pure Consciousness, Self-awareness), occurs for you regardless of the amount of effort, excellent. Having exposed the primary goal, the question of effort is important in distinguishing TM from other traditional forms of meditation which require forced attention on the mantra. The fact that something - a method - is effortless is not necessarily good unless it fulfills an objective: here, Transcendental Consciousness. Countless endeavors are nearly effortless but don't produce the results in question. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Could you describe in a bit more detail the effortless technique you claim you learned there? Glad to. It was a walking meditation that involved paying attention to what was going on internally and externally. Isn't unintentional walking effortless per se? Or is there a difference between intentional effortlessness and unintentional non-effort, in the same way as easy is not the same as effortless, and detached is just different to non-attached? Is it enough that things are effortless, or do we have to experience the effortlessness as well? Could anybody please explain the difference to me, as I am getting confused. Btw. being the non-doer, it is not 'I' who does the effort, rather the effort simply happens, that is is unintentional and therefore truely effortless. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Chogyal Norbu Rinpoche - Crystal and Way of the Light
--- http://www.snowlionpub.com/chapters/crwali.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Realization of the Absolute
--- http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/realis/realis_1a.html#15 --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sam Harris on Mysticism vs Faith based religion.
--- --- http://tinyurl.com/7j6nc and check out his website at http://www.samharris.org Here's an except from the above tinyurl in which Harris compares Western religion and Eastern Mysticism (particularly Buddhism).: With respect to spiritual practice, however, the disparity clearly runs the other way. While Eastern mysticism has its fair share of unjustified belief, it undoubtedly represents humankind's best attempt at fashioning a spiritual science. The methods of introspection one finds in Buddhism, for instance, have no genuine equivalents in the West. And the suggestion that they do is born of a desperate attempt on the part of Westerners to make all religious traditions seem equally wise. They simply aren't. When a Tibetan lama talks about nondual awareness (Tib. rigpa) and the Pope talks about God or the Holy Spirit (or anything else), they are not talking about the same thing; nor are they operating on the same intellectual footing. The lama is using some very precise terminology (albeit terminology that has no good English equivalent) to describe what countless meditators have experienced after very refined training in methods of introspection; while the Pope is merely reiterating unjustified and unjustifiable metaphysical claims that have been passed down to Christians in the context of a culture that has failed--utterly--to find compelling alternatives to mere belief. Such alternatives have existed for millennia, east of the Bosporus. This is not to ignore the Meister Eckharts of the world, but such mystics have always been the exception in the West. And it is important to remember that, being exceptions, they have been regularly persecuted for heresy. --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Passion of Christ
Note: Orthodox Christianity is all about getting Resurrected (acquiring a renewed body - a celestial Spiritual body); not becoming Enlightened. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Arunachala Ramana, another Neo-Advaitin
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.wheniawoke.com/Sages/ARamana.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Critiques of Neo-Advaitin brothers: I Nome Russell Smith
--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Can't find pics of these Dudes, but they claim to be Enlightend devotees of Ramana Maharshi. Website at http://www.satramana.org Various criticisms of interest; (the usual messing around with disciples wives, mismanagement of money...basically the Smith brothers don't work and live a life of luxury based on donations of followers. http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Yjeffruss.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] U.G. Krisnnamurti's meeting with Ramana Maharshi
--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0031.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Typical Neo-Advaitin double-talk
--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A closer examination of some of the Source material of the Neo- Advaitin school (Andrew Cohen, I Nome, Arunachala Ramana, Adyashanti, Gangaji...etc); reveals a distictive body of arguments designed to convert the aspirant to an immediate, radical understanding of the Self (HWL Poonja asks, Do You Get IT?) without the need for any progressive Sadhana. Needless to say from the point of view of Progressivists, the Neo- Advaitin approach might succeed for those who are already 99.% Self-Realized; but others like myself need an Enlightenment for Dummies course which includes TM. It's progressive, so what? I like it, works for me. Furthermore, I find the Neo-Advaitin admonishment of HWL Poonja (Give up all techniques and just BE) to be a circular argument which has as its main fault, the failure to recognize that the realization of the Self is most often a progressive affair due to built in stresses which unfortunately don't vanish at the stroke of I Get IT. The Neo-Advaitin source materials are the collected works of Ramana Maharshi, HWL Poonja (and his disciples: Gangaji among them); Nisargadatta Maharaj, and his disciple Ramesh Balsekar. Other living Neo-Advaitins are Arunachala Ramana of http://www.aham.org and I Nome of Society of Abidance in Truth, Santa Cruz. Here's an excerpt from Nisargadatta Maharaj. http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc100a.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] An important Neo-Advaitin: Douglas Harding
--- --- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Douglas Harding is an important Neo-Advaitin by virtue of his first book, On Having No Head...which ironically is all about a stage, or progressive level of attainment on the road to Enlightenment, but not quite there. His subsequent books go into the nature of complete Self- Relization which might be contrasted to On Having No Head, with the phrase: On Having No Body. Harding's first book might resonate with the experiences of TM practitioners: they transcend for a time during meditation; and eventually, transcend during the whole period of meditation but lose the experience of clear Transcendance outside of meditation. Eventually with further practice, transcendance occurs 24 hours a day; but is this necessarily Enlightenment? No, says Harding. It could be a certain level of clarity which he calls Having No Head. That is, part of the physiological apparatus is purified but not the whold body. A full, complete Awakening says Harding would be matched with the phrase On Having No Body. Such an attainment is discussed in Harding's subsequent books. Here's an excerpt: http://www.realization.org/page/doc1/doc106a.htm --- End forwarded message --- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Psychological time during meditation
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Get a synchronistic picture of your psychological state before and after meditation. Pics change each minute and are sent in from around the world: http://www.humanclock.com Click on to the square at top (view the clock); then scroll down to where it says random and click on to it. Each minute will have a new pic. On another topic, some of you may have seen Sri Ravi Shankar and Dr. Herbert Benson on CNN (Shankar came to Atlanta while Benson was at Harvard, consulted as an academic expert.). Benson displayed his usual level of ignorance but this is to be expected...the average CNN viewer (expect for the Chrstian fundamentalists), wouldn't discriminate between various forms of meditation/concentration/prayer/breathing exercises. Benson lumps them all together under the rubric of the relaxation response; and declares them all to be of equal value depending upon which you prefer coupled with your religious or non-religious background. I found it interesting that Benson borrowed an important concept from TM (since he was initiated into it long ago): that if you are consciously aware of a thought, innocently recognize it without using mental force to manipulate the mind; then allow the next thought to enter the mind...something like that (can't remember the exact words Benson used but it had a distinctive TM/MMY flavor). Benson has carved out a distinctive academic niche for himself at Harvard by declaring his they're all of equal value manifesto. I suppose that just from a physiological viewpoing, using gross parameters of relaxation such as breathing amd heart rate, brain waves, skin response, etc; such forms of meditation/prayers/breathing excercise might be somewhat equal with ballpark data; but the notion of transcendance hasn't apparently dawned on Benson, intellectually at least. Maybe he's experienced TC but has concealed the fact. After all, he has an academci career to protect and it's risky to entertain ideas far from the mainstream of academia. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Desires and Enlightenment
--That's the flaw in your reasoning, Peter: supposed multiple Dharmas. There's just Dharma...not one for CC, one for other states, etc. In any state of awareness, desires occur since they are DRIVEN by bodily impulses which are ingrained patterns of behavior. (occuring before, and after Enlightenment). The delusional ego in the state of ignorance is not the source of desires. It's only a fictional actor, while the real actor is the body. In Enlightenment, the fictional actor (the ego resulting from false identifcation) is absent; but the REAL actor with all of its impules, inihibitions, limitations, and ingrained behaviors remains, even beyond the grave. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- yhvhworld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --Is this supposed to be some type of excuse for immoral behavior? Things just don't happen. People (victims - women...get raped, for example, little boys get fondled.) These are crimes, not happenings.. Of course they are. Who said they aren't?. Waking state has its own dharma and CC has its own dharma. You can't cross understanding of these two dharmas or you come to these ridiculous conclusions. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An unenlightened person looks at an enlightened person and they appear to have desires. They talk, they move, they eat food, they do this and that, they prefer one thing over another. What is it that is actually driving the speach, movements, eating? And when there are preferences, why is one thing preferred over another? If an answer is Brahman then does Brahman have a sense of I?. Rick Carlstrom In waking state there is a foundational confound between consciousness and the experiential sense of I. This I is ego. Because consciousness is projected into and identified with body/mind there is a bound sense of self: individuality. This ego assumes ownership for action. Thus in waking state we assume that action occurs because I am intending it. But in enlightenment it becomes rather clear that there is no I to intend or not to intend anything. Action just occurs or not occurs. Thoughts just occur or not occur. Feelings just occur or not occur. There is no I that takes ownership. The I actually does not exist. But it appears to exist in waking state and is confused with consciousness. What drives the behavior/thought/feeling of the enlightened is what drives everything phenomenal: God/Nature/Mystery, whatever. This is actually driving people in waking state too, but they think that subjective sense of I is doing it. It's quite the delusion! In fact from the behavioral level there is no difference between the unenlightened and the enlightened. But the enlightened person is not there in the way the unenlightened person believes themselves to be. There is no sense of I or mine in the enlightened person. There is no subjective self that sees itself as me or I . That just goes in enlightenment. The best an enlightened person can say is that they are nothing. They aren't there in they way an unenlightened person believes they are there. There is no personal identity or self in enlightenment. The mind can't understand this because it confounds a sense of individual self with consciousness. The two have no relationship what so ever. A personal self is a product of consciousness projecting into mind and experiencing itself as bound. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Discover Yahoo! Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'
[FairfieldLife] Re: Siddhis after Enlightenment
-Excellent point! but even with evidence the diehard scientific materialists like the Amazing Randi, Michael Shermer, biologist Richard Dawkins, etcwouldn't even accept the reality of ordinary psychic experiences let alone the extraordinary ones. Basically, it (the paradigm shift) all boils down to a large body of people having their own remarkable Spiritual experiences...(especially those who require some relative proof, some tangible, experiential and sensory event; unlike those of us to whom Transcendence has the major appeal) My hypothesis is that a large wave of people formerly involved in Hinduism and Buddhism incarnated to be ready for the appearance of Gurus like MMY, Muktananda, etc; and for the most part, those people wanted to continue with the genuine Spiritual quest for Enlightenment, not requiring any special scientific or observable demonstration. Now, the crowd is different. People are demanding observable miracles; but even then, the majority of people still have a disdain for the scientific materialism element (the latter being more leftist oriented intellectuals) having stripes of a different color from the likes of Bush, Buchanan, the moral Majority, and the huge electorate of Christian fundamentalists in the U.S. - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I don't get is why, if someone has mastery of siddhis, this is not demonstrated publicly and scientifically, in order to facilitate the necessary paradigm shift. Siddhis for fun is like wasting time doing a crossword puzzle instead of solving a scientific problem of much greater significance.. Talk of enlightened people contributing secretely to mankind's wellbeing by their mere presence is one thing but if they can demonstrate siddhis inevitably scientific dogmatism would be undermined and interest in spiritual matters would soar - no matter if at first this just panders to sensationalism. Many people would get turned on to the genuine thing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The idea that an Enlightened person will not, should not, or doesn't desire to perform Siddhis after Enlightenment doesn't match the record; certainly there's no law written in stone in that regard. My Kriya Yoga Guru, Swami Satyeswarananda (initiated me into Kriya Yoga in 1982), stated that in his tradition, the Siddhi of controlled out of body travel was a desirable venture after Enlightenment...as I gathered from his viewpoint, it's like frosting on the cake. Besides, why NOT travel to other dimensions? Is there some restriction on fun? Here he is...: http://www.sanskritclassics.com/aboutbaba.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: After death
---Right! As a matter of fact, Ramakrishna Himself predicted a future incarnation of his own, (I believe 200 years after his death) In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shanti2218411 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---The assertion that enlightenment results in the cessation of the expereince of self and that then means the end of futher expereince of the relative with the death of the body is far from being universally agreed upon by individuals who have been acknowledged as enlightened eg The Great Swan:Meetings with Ramakrishna p156 Individual souls evolve naturally toward the full awareness of their intrinisic perfection,their infinite nature.After merging conciously with the Only Reality,souls may chose to shine forth again as concious rays of that Reality,during this or FUTURE incarnations(emphasis mine). Kevin In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happens to the individual when he drops his body after attaining enlightenment? One unbounded ocean of consciousness in motion? Nothing can happen to an enlightened individual after dropping the body because there is no individual for anything to happen to. You are understanding enlightenment in terms of waking state. Enlightenment can not be understood from waking state. Waking state assume there is an I that stuff happens to. That just is not true anymore in enlightenment. Yea, I know, it makes no sense to the mind, but then enlightenment has nothing to do with mind other than squashing it. -Squashed like bug To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Charlie Lutes on MIU science Siddhis.
In private conversations with Charlie Lutes, he stated that he didn't approve of the scientific baloney coming out of MIU; and he questioned MMY's wisdom in bringing the flying siddhi, saying it was a lot of crap. I tried to convince him to take over as leader of an alternative (to MIU and SIMS)faction of the TM Org; but in spite of his doubts about MMY's decisions, he chose to remain steadfast to MMY as his personal Guru. Then, I tried to persuade him to go over to Swami Muktananda; after which Charlie visited Muktananda once (at least) when the latter was in Santa Monica around 1980. Charlie seemed to be fascinated by Muktananda but told me he would always be loyal to MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The trouble with Buddhists
-More jewels of wisdom (below). In addition, most Buddhists are nihilists and have been duped into the false idea that after getting Enlightened, dropping the body (and all subtle bodies) is a higher state of evolution than maintaining a body. Even on logical grounds this is baloney since the Absolute is Absolute regardless of whether a body is present or not. Besides, why would one not maintain a body for an infinity of time in order to assist others in attaining the goal of Enlightenment. This is the Boddhisattva vow (valid for Buddhas who wish to maintain a body in some realm in order to help others). I don't see how others can be helped without bodies to do the work. However, the illogic of the nihilistic schools of Buddhism is not shared by the Pure Land School or the followers of Nichiren. In the Pure Land school, one attains Enlightenment then continues to live indefinitely with a subtle body in the Pure Land of the Amitabha Buddha. n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, demaris4 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good one... According to OUR SPIRITUAL HERITAGE (the book), the trouble with Buddhism is its pernicious egalitarianism. Hmmm. d4 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The trouble with Buddhists is that they are too attached to Buddhism to be Buddhists. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong
--Or, they are really Enlightened but Enlightenment isn't what it's cracked up to be. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 5/16/05 4:56 PM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've got a serious question for everybody and no implicit criticism is meant and I'm also curious if there is a legitimate/valid, whatever reason, someone can come up with that I'm not quite getting. Why do we need any story whatsoever regarding MMY? We can neither confirm nor disconfirm any story. The arguments go on and on. Most of our stories whether in the pro or con camp are simply narratives of what we already believe. All we have is our own experiences regarding MMY. The stories can never, ever resolve; they never make sense unless you deny huge chunks of contradictory material. So, why and what is this need that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with? -Peter Maybe trying to wrap your mind around irreconcilable paradoxes is enlightening. Maybe it's worthwhile trying to understand what enlightenment really is. Learning to accept that it doesn't necessarily fulfill idealist expectations. Or that it is more elusive than we realize, and many so-called enlightened were really short of the mark and self-deluded as to their attainment. And therein lay their downfall. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
