[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Monotonous Plan? That was before we had Transcendental Meditation and the Spiritual Regeneration Movement. Seize the day, we Know a lot more today. Make use of your time while you're here, the doors open at 7am for group meditation in the Domes everyday. -Buck He said: “Ours is an age in which everything is based on the premise that it is best to live as long as possible. The average life span has become the longest in history, and a monotonous plan for humanity unrolls before us.” ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re The average lifespan in the Middle Ages was 30, meaning that fewer than half the humans born reached that age. : Average lifespans are a dodgy statistic as in older societies with their very high infant-mortality rates that can badly skew the figures. Japanese novelist Yukio Mishima always looked back with nostalgia to the Roman period when most people died young - that way, he claimed, life was always lived at an ecstatic pitch. Mishima was turned on by the thought of gladiator fights so he may not be a good guide! He said: “Ours is an age in which everything is based on the premise that it is best to live as long as possible. The average life span has become the longest in history, and a monotonous plan for humanity unrolls before us.”
[FairfieldLife] Re: Unanswered question
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Although I cited the Gnostics with approval a few posts above I have to confess than when I read their literature there is definitely something slightly sinister about their texts. Too much distaste for the body and sex; too much yearning for escape. That could simply be a literary trope of course. We can't know for sure at this distance. That's sort of how I feel about the Cathars (whose philosophy was a distant branch of Gnosticism). While I admire some of the things about their culture (equal numbers of men and women priests, no paid clergy, everyone needing a profession that paid for their own lives so that no one got to ride on the coattails of others, etc.), I cannot identify in any way with their basic Dualist philosophy. There was no *concept* of Unity; everything was viewed in terms of a complete and eternal Duality. God was not even a *part* of this world ( long before Robin imagined God's tantrum yoga departure after a WWII bombing :-), and there was no way that one could reach God or even any form of happiness in one's lifetime. In addition, this world was viewed as a hellworld, created not by God but by the Other Guy, so life in the world was viewed as by definition living in hell. Add to this the fact that they believed in recincarnation so had nothing to look forward to at death other than more hell, and you could say they had a pretty fuckin' gloomy outlook on life. But then, you look at the world they lived in, and you can sorta understand why such beliefs might arise. The average lifespan in the Middle Ages was 30, meaning that fewer than half the humans born reached that age. Poverty, disease, and injustice was everywhere, the Church was totally corrupt and literally *sold* forgiveness for one's sins to the gullible, and to top it all off, no one bathed. Ever. No wonder they wanted to die, and *avoid* reincarnation. Who would want to be reborn into what they considered a hellworld. In this respect, they're not that different from Hindus and Buddhists who also seek total extinction, freedom from rebirth, and to get off the wheel. Me, I cannot help but think that anyone in any era who believes this has kinda missed the point. Hell is not determined by one's surroundings or circumstances, but by one's attitude. Have a good 'tude, and you can have a good time anywhere:
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Re The average lifespan in the Middle Ages was 30, meaning that fewer than half the humans born reached that age. : Average lifespans are a dodgy statistic as in older societies with their very high infant-mortality rates that can badly skew the figures. Japanese novelist Yukio Mishima always looked back with nostalgia to the Roman period when most people died young - that way, he claimed, life was always lived at an ecstatic pitch. Mishima was turned on by the thought of gladiator fights so he may not be a good guide! He said: “Ours is an age in which everything is based on the premise that it is best to live as long as possible. The average life span has become the longest in history, and a monotonous plan for humanity unrolls before us.”
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Why quote such a psuchophantic bullshitter. He committed seppuku without the honor of serving faithfully. Which one of MMY's seven states is this?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Why quote such a psuchophantic bullshitter. Because he was a great novelist. My favourite is The Temple of the Golden Pavilion in which a novice burns down the temple that has obsessed him. It's based on a true-life event but is essentially about someone desperately trying to escape from his own high (unrealistic) ideals which have finally suffocated him instead of liberating him. Mishima's own obsession with self-sacrifice for a cause - often an irrational cause - is at bottom a perversion of the religious impulse. But perversions (of all kinds) can tell us a lot about the human condition.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
An-artaxios sez: I recall reading something long ago about the gnostics, that our awareness is imprisoned, and there are seven levels to this prison and we have to escape each one before we are free. These stations are known as the toll-houses of the soul. Each one is controlled by an planetary Archon who demands a toll-price (secret word or idea) to ascend further towards some limitless heaven. The visible and invisible universe is considered to be a realm of imprisonment ruled by evil daimons - the sadam husseins of the celestial realm. Not just ancient history, I was on website where some Greek Orthodox priest recently gave this account and was swiftly condemned for offering a Gnostic heresy as an interpretative method of understanding the afterlife.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Right, as in the Sant Mat Tradition where the first main goal is rising above bodily consciousness...i.e. a near death experience without the near death. The subtle bodies separate out from the physical, which may (they say) appear as if dead. Then, the astral body is left behind and the Soul travels into higher planes. Then, leaving the mental body behind, the Soul (Sant Mat practitioners basically define the Soul as the Causal body), travels into the Causal plane. Finally, leaving the causal plane, the Soul is free of obstructions and realizes the Self; at least temporarily: a temporary experience of a variant of CC or Unity.. However, the rising above bodily consciousness part is actually a Sidhi, not the main goal per se as described in Advaitic literature such as SBAL. The Sant Mat Masters don't explain why :rising above bodily consciousness is necessary at all. In Kriya Yoga, this Sidhi or Kriya is one of the sign posts along the way to complete Self-Realization or Unity. ... Various Traditions may differ on what's experienced in the higher levels. A necessary ingredient in the Sant Mat Tradition is meeting up with the Radiant Form of the Master. ... Refer to the YouTube lectures of IshwarPuri, a living disciple of Sawan Singh (a major proponent of Sant Mat - died in the late 40's).
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Maybe where you live. But, it's all pretty much laid out in Nader Raam's book, cited below. You probably wouldn't have read this book, since it costs $450.00, and you're not anywhere near a Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge, where you might have access to a copy. There's a copy at Radiance, the TM Ideal Village near Austin, TX where I was able to puruse the entire volume at my leisure a few years ago, and I took copious notes. The book is a veritable encyclopedia of knowledge about Veda and Vedic Literature, the various states of consciousness - it covers all the seven chakras, the nadis, and human physiology, including detailed lists of the various branches and sections of the Vedic Literature and their corresponding attributes: one becomes three, which becomes seven and eight, which becomes 24, then 96, then 192, etc. Work cited: 'Human Physiology: Expression of Veda and the Vedic Literature' by Prof. Tony Nader, M.D., Ph.D. Maharishi Vedic University, 1995 On 12/11/2013 10:31 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: No TMO's know anything about this. They are mere lap dogs.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
On 12/11/2013 10:42 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: The ancient Gnostics had a wonderful myth that awakened souls after death found themselves raised to the Moon There are many reason for identifying the Gnostic movement with the the appearance only theory of the Buddhist Mahayana, a fact that is well documented. And, there are clear links between the dualistic notions of the Gnostics and the Indian dualism found in Kapila's samkhya doctrine and the dualism of the Persian Mani. When we review these in the light of what we now have come to know, both from the Nag-Hamadi trove and from our understanding, recently gained, of the Docetic doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism (the growth and flowering of which exactly coincided with the high period of the Gnostic movement), the implications of their imagery can be judged with enlarged appreciation Work cited: The Masks of God' by Joseph Campbell The Illusory Christ, Volume III Occidental Viking, 1964 p. 364
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Although I cited the Gnostics with approval a few posts above I have to confess than when I read their literature there is definitely something slightly sinister about their texts. Too much distaste for the body and sex; too much yearning for escape. That could simply be a literary trope of course. We can't know for sure at this distance.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
I don't know where MMY got this schemata either. It is not some seven states schema found in some distant yogic or vedantic literature. I think MMY just made it up. However, I believe he made it up with a view towards traditional Vedanta's categories of states of consciousness. That involves interpretations (types of yogic phenomenology) of how subject-object perception changes and develops with meditative practice. He seemed to want to include bhakti orientation as a part of this orientation. MadhusUdana Saraswati (15th century) had already tried to include Chaitanya's type of bhakti, so perhaps MMY wanted to include and validate more theistic types of experiences as part of the baseline. No TMO's know anything about this. They are mere lap dogs.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
I don't know either, but a lot of history regarding spiritual traditions is lost to us, how different traditions might have traveled the roads in the past and intermingled. I recall reading something long ago about the gnostics, that our awareness is imprisoned, and there are seven levels to this prison and we have to escape each one before we are free. Now if you look at the seven states of consciousness that M speaks of, you can see them from either end. You can see them as a progression to higher states, or from the other end as a succession of lower states. The least low state is unity. The next state of delusion below that is God consciousness, etc. When you break free of unity, you have Brahman wherein you see the extent of your delusions. You get to dump unity along with the other states. These are all states of the mind's appreciation of experience, not expansion of consciousness. Consciousness remains unaltered, but the mind expands until it can go no further. Then you wake up, and the mind's grip on your life cracks and you begin to learn to live in freedom, though there is a joke in that freedom, because the nature of that freedom is not what you would initially regard as freedom. It is that the mind had some definite and perhaps some not so definite ideas of what you were and what everything else was, and those ideas were bullshit - you get free of those. The world still goes on as it always has, with its seeming causality and inevitable flow. The body and its environment are part of that flow, and the flow goes where it will. You can pretend you can control the flow, that is a useful fiction in some circumstances, but you know that is pointless to argue about. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote: I don't know where MMY got this schemata either. It is not some seven states schema found in some distant yogic or vedantic literature. I think MMY just made it up. However, I believe he made it up with a view towards traditional Vedanta's categories of states of consciousness. That involves interpretations (types of yogic phenomenology) of how subject-object perception changes and develops with meditative practice. He seemed to want to include bhakti orientation as a part of this orientation. MadhusUdana Saraswati (15th century) had already tried to include Chaitanya's type of bhakti, so perhaps MMY wanted to include and validate more theistic types of experiences as part of the baseline. No TMO's know anything about this. They are mere lap dogs.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
Re the gnostics, that our awareness is imprisoned, and there are seven levels to this prison and we have to escape each one before we are free.: The ancient Gnostics had a wonderful myth that awakened souls after death found themselves raised to the Moon (which gave the Moon its light and changing phases). When the Moon released its light (ie, the souls) the freed souls travelled up to the rest of the (classically recognised) seven planets shedding their shells as they rose until they reached final liberation. Quite a pretty conceit. I love the way those Gnostics dared to imagine their own cosmologies - true artists.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Unanswered question
the perception of the different lokas maybe. On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:42 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re the gnostics, that our awareness is imprisoned, and there are seven levels to this prison and we have to escape each one before we are free.: The ancient Gnostics had a wonderful myth that awakened souls after death found themselves raised to the Moon (which gave the Moon its light and changing phases). When the Moon released its light (ie, the souls) the freed souls travelled up to the rest of the (classically recognised) seven planets shedding their shells as they rose until they reached final liberation. Quite a pretty conceit. I love the way those Gnostics dared to imagine their own cosmologies - true artists.
