Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
functioning based on the principle of three gunas: Rishi - Davata- Chanddhas
Is this the exact term Maharishi uses to discribe these three things.?? "Gunas"
You can fix a thought (or a an object), but it has to automaticallyturn into something else, otherwise it would "burn" a hole in your mind, in case it stayed at the same spot.
The object turns into something else.?? How does it burn a "hole" in the Mind.??
Samadhi is the sattwa guna of the mind (pure ground of consciousness).
Generaly it is thaught that, Samadhi is above mind. Above sattwa guna also. Could you exactly Quote, where Maharishi said this.??
if Samadhi starts to render its influence, it needs its rajas-nature inherent in it in order to give place for a new result (manifestation), which is also part of the sattwic force.
Samadhi needs it's rajas nature for a new result.?? And the new result is also a part of the sattwic force.?? Sounds contradictory. Could you give me some source for this statement. Did Maharishi or somebody say this.??
Ravishankar would be ready to let me initiate "hundreds and thousands of his followers" provided a) I got an authorisation from the TM-Movement to do so and
RaviShankar knows TM and himself can initiate all his followers. Why the TM-org didn't reply.??
His way of talking with a nonchalant voice, reminded me to a plagiarism of Maharishi's typical self-_expression.. trying to imitate his former master.
Is there anything original in this Universe.??
But it is for sure that you will hardly find the academic recognition of Robert Keith Wallace's findings at Harvard Medical School in the early Seventies, especially the clear defintion of a fourth state of consciousness, which is unlike sleep, dreaming and waking state in scientific literature.
I understand your concern and frustration about this, but could the CIA do something to deny academic recognition.??
Viktor Schauberger, Wilhelm Reich and Nicolas Tesla have found out that there is an energy, which can be activated by gentle methods, who unfold a mulitifold strengthof powers than conventional energies.
Are you talking about Zero-point energy.?? I heard that you need a huge industrial plant like think to extract it[future]. are you saying there is something applicable at present and not being tapped into.??
---OriginalMessage--
From: "Hagen J. Holtz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 00:14:01 +0100 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
dhyana ("gliding")
Are they really Gliding.??
The mind is always by its functioning based on the principle of three gunas: Rishi - Davata- Chanddhas
"I am Hagen" (subject - awareness - object) or "You question me" etc.. There is nothing les than three. If you take one aspect, trying to isolate it, the two others
silently come along. Think about it thoroughly !
If you say "I" and you stop saying more, trying to hide that you wanted to say sometzhing more, then silently at least the question "I" means what ? By this the three gunas have been joining together automatically. Either you can make some statement or you are speech- and meaningless. If you state something, the three are obviously involved. If you do not state sonething, they are still involved, because the avoidance as such implies the same again.
Dharana - Dhyana-Samadhi are synonyms of this first "triangle" of attributes, the same as sat-chit-ananda are synonyms to the second triangle, Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva another one orsattwa-rajas-tamasand so forth.
Dr. Peter Plichta has been findinginnumerous of such three-attributes based principles in variousscience disciplines(see alsoGod's secret formula, Element Books).
Even without practicing the siddhis you areunder the influence of the same mind-principles. You can fix a thought (or a an object), but it has to automaticallyturn into something else, otherwise it would "burn" a hole in your mind, in case it stayed at the same spot. This act of metamorphosis is the gliding-aspect, which ends up in an "ecstasy" or new manifestation.
(Some practical exercise: Draw a cube ona piece of paper and let your mind contemplate on the form with open eyes. Try to fix it as good as you can. After a few seconds it will turn its space-direction from back-ground to fore-ground and after a few seconds back again and so forth.)
If you start with a mantra you will easily glide (slipping on a bananapeel - see Course on SCI !!)
automatically into samadhi (pure consciousness).
Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi.
What does three gunas has to do with Samadhi.??
Samadhi is the sattwa guna of the mind (pure ground of consciousness). Dhyana is the rajas-aspect (dynamic movement) and
dharana is the tamas-aspect of the mind (fruit or result or manifestation out of the dynamics of the dhyana-force). The rsult has to to dissolve again, and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
I love ya Hagen! I'd pick you for my team anytime. --- Hagen J. Holtz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip You may remember the commentary on the Bhagavadgita, where Maharishi described the necessity to challenge one's master in order to make him set free more knowledge. (By the way this challenge according to my opinion is not being taking place sufficiently by his disciples). Now after this introductory citation I come back to the main general point by whose solution your fundamental questioning of authority makes most of the consecutive doubtfully interposed questions at least formally obsolete. I myself took the opportunity to challenge Maharishi several times in my life in direct contact, in order to get the validation of that answer, which I have already been giving to myself through mere setting free of inherent CI (= Creative Intelligence). This is the self-evident purpose and result of this spiritual practice (self-unfolding in double sense of the word). In one case I brought my challenge to the peak point, because I dared to doubt about an old-established model even, which Maharishi had launched as one of his most fundamental ones. The reaction of the master gave me the proof that it was worth to herald him at such high esteem, because his answer was clear, modest and onepointed; I told him that the bubble-diagram must be wrong, because transcending according to the law of irreversability of processes in nature dictates the mind to walk in one direction only, and that is from Atman (point value of inifinity = smaller than the smallest) to Brahman (expanded value of infinity = bigger than the biggest). In fact smaller than the smallest is essentially the same as bigger than the biggest. This is the only reason, why the mind is enabled to transcend, that is to say just by rescuing itself in the most expanded value in order to be able to come back to the starting point of all manífestation. So I said to Maharishi, Transcending is a process of constant engrossment of the mantra until it reaches its most expanded value and such the mind alone can find back to its source. Without hesitation Maharishi agreed. It was in late summer 1979 at the Golden Hall at Seelisberg-Switzerland. He literrally said to me in presence of the audience: You are absolutely right in what you say. We just held this model as a working model for practical reasons only. So thinking by yourself is not only allowed but vital necessary, as already the great philosopher Immanuel Kant found out. His maxims of human thinking (= emancipation) were: 1. Think ! 2. Think by yourself ! 3. Think consecutively ! 4. Think up to the end ! Very often I have to doubt, whether meditators - in their tendency to regressive development - have ever come beyond stage 2. Whereas the majority of the population at average moves at least somwhere in between stage 2 and 3. A genuine spiritual seeker is expetced to range somewhere between thinking level 3 and 4. Maharishi has never taught to surrender in a non-critical manner. This are old-fashioned concepts out of the moth's chest of topsy-turby theories on Yoga, where constantly cause and effect got fatalistically turned upside down (best example: concentration is the input of meditation even though it is the output of the interaction of the three gunas in the mind (= samyama, which leads to the state of ekagrata parinama or constant flow of the mind in one thought (= what is meant by the real meaning of the word concentration). And this again is identical with the state of at least savikalpa-samadhi). Samadhi is by the way also a constant process and not a static state, the same way as diving is always going along with some effort to be able to stay underneath the surface and not a static notion, staying at one spot without further invested dynamics. Now further to your questions as inserts; - Original Message - From: Jason Spock To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) functioning based on the principle of three gunas: Rishi - Davata- Chanddhas Is this the exact term Maharishi uses to discribe these three things.?? Gunas As I preliminarily introduced it is not important to ask, whether Maharishi used to describe this manner, but whether it could make sense to describe it in such manner. And the answer will be yes, if you ask your own Maharishi (= the complete seer) inside yourself. That is the best Maharishi you could ever have and he will always match with the outer Maharishi, which should always be the mile-stone and your measure-scale but never your mental hurdle (just because you do not
Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
Thanks a lot, for your reply taking much time of yours. I appreciate it. Few more clarifications. I told him that the bubble-diagram must be wrong, because transcending according to the law of irreversability of processes in naturedictates the mind to walk in one direction only, Mind walks in one direction only.?? In what mode of interpertaion is this.?? Did Maharishi say something like that.?? Samadhi is the same way "above" the mind as it is "part of it". The same way as the center of the wheel is "above" the wheel, because it is never reachable only by approximation and yet "part of it", because it is definitely "in" the wheel. This is the everlasting dialectics of all phenomena. There is no fixable halt. Centre of the wheel is above the wheel.?? I know that the centre of the wheel is part of the wheel. what you probably mean here is that the centre is the axis, the hub and it controls the wheel. It is said that by obeyance of certain laws of currents (to be taken ingeneral and not only the electric ones) without much usage of space or armatures it can be done. I am still stumped by this "free energy" What laws.?? General currents.?? From: "Hagen J. Holtz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:50:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...) Even if you may consider me as somehow arrogant,but I allow myself to tell you that I would like to open your eyes a little bit now. First of all I have already been an independent mind before, while and after having started with TM. My master is my master but he is not my mental guardian or nurse. I am a free man and not a mental slave. This as first preliminary vedic ideal to be mentioned and herewithpostulated. Instead of asking, where Maharishi has been stating this or that the question would be much more intelligently raised by asking, how Maharishi would probablyreact in case you challenged his intellect bysome tricky problematics. You may remember the commentary on the Bhagavadgita, where Maharishi described the necessity to challenge one's master in order to make him set freemore knowledge. (By the way this challenge according to my opinion is not being taking place sufficiently by his disciples). Now after this introductory citation I come back to the main generalpoint by whose solution your fundamental questioning of authority makes most of the consecutive doubtfully interposed questions at least formally obsolete. I myself took the opportunity to challenge Maharishi several times in my life in direct contact, in order to get the validation of that answer, which I have already been giving to myself through mere setting free of inherentCI (= Creative Intelligence).This is the self-evident purpose and resultof this spiritual practice (self-unfolding in double sense of the word). In one case I brought my challenge to the peak point, because I dared to doubt about an old-establishedmodel even, which Maharishi had launched as one of his most fundamental ones. The reaction of the master gave me the proof that it was worth to herald him at such high esteem, because his answer was clear, modest and onepointed; I told him that the bubble-diagram must be wrong, because transcending according to the law of irreversability of processes in naturedictates the mind to walk in one direction only,and that is from Atman (point value of inifinity = smaller than the smallest) to Brahman (expanded value of infinity = bigger than the biggest). In fact smaller than the smallest is essentially the same as bigger than the biggest. This is the only reason, why the mind is enabled to transcend, that is to say just by rescuing itself in the most expanded value in order to be able tocome backto the "starting point" of all manífestation. So I said to Maharishi, "Transcending is a process of constant engrossment of the mantra until it reaches its most expanded value and such the mindalonecan find back to its source." Without hesitation Maharishi agreed. It was in late summer1979 at the Golden Hall at Seelisberg-Switzerland. He literrally said to mein presence ofthe audience: "You are absolutely right in what you say. We just held this model as a working model for practical reasons only." So thinking by yourself is not only allowed but vital necessary, as already the great philosopher Immanuel Kant found out. His maxims of human thinking(= emancipation) were: 1. Think ! 2.Think by yourself ! 3.Think consecutively ! 4.Think up tothe end ! Very often I have to doubt, whether meditators - in their tendency to regressive development - have ever come beyond stage "2". Whereas the majority of the population at average moves at least somwhere in between stage 2 and 3. A genuine spiritual seeker is expetced to range somewhere between thinking level 3 and 4. Maharishi has never taught to surrender in a non-critical manner. This are old-fashioned concepts out
[FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
The way I heard the story, it was the
Shankaracharya, or the guy MMY was propping up as
the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the details of
that whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick
trip to India during the Fiuggi course, that he
offer something more to the Westerners. So
Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began
experimenting on half a dozen of the M-group types around him
(I got this account from one of them).
This seems to be mere
speculation without argumentative basis. It is the same way typically mystifying circumstances as you are
claimingthem instead of as"to have been the cause of Maharishi's
decision".
The Siddhis are the logic
consequence out of TM. Look into the Samyama-principle: Dharana ("fixing"),
dhyana ("gliding") and samadhi ("landing"). These three parameters
(always)form the naturalmovement of the mind. The result is
"concentrating" (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with fixing the mantra in a
repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana. Due to the three-guna principle
the result is samadhi. In the siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the
back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana ("coming back to the simplest form of
awareness" -= siddhi-instruction). By this you pass through samadhi and end up
in dharana (fixation = manifestation). This is pure applicable science of
mind.
The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1%
effect came out when Domash was reigning physicist
in 1974. There was a campaign in the UK in
which one of the slogans was "you can be one of the 99 if you can
get one of your friends to be the one." Square
root of 1% came out soon after the
sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was
still Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory
preceded the research.
Yes you think but you don't know it. And anyhow it would not have
made any difference: In Science either theory precedes experience or vice versa.
This is nothing unusual. Important is that later on theory and practice or the
other way round have tomatch this or that
way. In other words, the theory
of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied about
before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent countless
hours discussing this and lecturing about it. It's
not like it was foisted on him by cunning
physicists. As always, he was calling the shots.
Was there anyharm in
it ?
He was
tickled pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having
to get 10% of the world's population
meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think this
particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement.
For
sure he was looking for some more efficient formula. But this was justfor
principle reasons and has nothing to do withhow many people were meant to
be practicing TM.
The failure of the movement is by the way its
present success. 99% of the TM-Teachers all over the world have been
leaving the movement. Many of them are still teaching. That is, what Maharishi
wanted. Because it secured that the secret agents in the movement have no access
anymore to destroy the movement. Their assumed success of having been destroying
nowhad become a success for Maharishi to have made so many minds become
independent, not anymore bound to the master. This is the lesson of freedom
Maharishi taught to us. He is always one step
ahead.
The
ideal of 10,000 or so at one place can grow now from the very grassroot
level. Once it has been established from there it will never be destroyable
anymore. Maharishi 1979 in Seelisberg: "I have to play a global game, which you
may not understand, but which will prevent the movement from
ultimatedestruction. I have to keep the appearance of the movement
ridiculous.Those who are able to think from the heart will yet join and be
withus."
It
is now up to us to organize and realizethis ideal step by
step.
Although the advent of the sidhis
sure scared off a lot of respectable folks who
were beginning to take it seriously.
What should these
folks havebeen taking more serious than the siddhis andscientific
research on TM?All this sounds a bit talkative from your
end.
In order to reach
Kaivalya even the Karma Mimamsa Sutras and the Vedanta Sutras have to be
practiced according to the Samyama-Principle. Only under these circumstances the
Siddhis could unfold to full extent anyhow.
Thanks Rick, for the History lesson, I
needed it. At any rate, it really supports my
contention that MMY has rested the entire welfare of the
TMorg's success on these bogus studies!!
Therewere no bogus
studies, there were only bogus interpretations (see those watery wisdoms in the
recent mail"Where is the truth ?", where pseudo-yogies are typically
misguiding people's minds, ending up in confusion like "everything is
truth").
It's psuedo-science, it hasn't been proven
satisfactorily. Remember.."thru the window of science".
Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote: Why does the TM-org rabidly criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim MMY called him Sugar-Caned poison.?? Duh. One word: competition. Falling mantra sales doesn't make M. happy. Isn't that obvious? Of course, it's also easy to rationalize it as some sort of cosmic scenario. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
On Nov 13, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Jason Spock wrote:The Siddhis are the logic consequence out of TM. Look into the Samyama-principle: Dharana ("fixing"), dhyana ("gliding") and samadhi ("landing"). These three parameters (always) form the natural movement of the mind. The result is "concentrating" (ekagrata parinama). In TM you start with fixing the mantra in a repetitive manner. The emphasis is on dharana. Due to the three-guna principle the result is samadhi. In the siddhis the fixing aspect is being put into the back-ground. Emphasis is on dhyana ("coming back to the simplest form of awareness" -= siddhi-instruction). By this you pass through samadhi and end up in dharana (fixation = manifestation). This is pure applicable science of mind.Siddhis, attainment of powers of all kinds, is a greattemptation in the life of an initiate. The danger in the pursuit ofsiddhis is twofold:1. At the slightest appearance of some hunch or some prediction coming through, and so forth, one begins to imagine himself as a siddha, an adept.2. One becomes tied down to the desires for such powers and dreams of subtle ego. One might say, "Oh, if only 1 had the power to read others' minds I could help many more students." But deep inside the sub-conscious, there lurks the impurity which would not help the students but simply invade the privacy of their minds and derive from these invasions certain vicarious pleasures. Or one thinks, "If only 1 could predict which horse would win the lottery I could help my guru financially." One day I asked Swamiji,"Why do you have to ask for funds! Why do you not simply buy a lottery ticket on a horse you know would win?" He told me quite sternly, "Don't you even think of that. Work honestly with your body. Work honestly to pay your karma and do not look or such easy ways out."If one finds that special experiences or powers are coming one's way, the injunction is to conceal them carefully and not make your meditation group into a gossip club, every one vying with each other, everyone saying, "wait till you hear my experience!" The siddhis are not in fact any kind of attainments in the sense that they are additions to one's personality. According to the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, they are simply the unblocking of power. As one advances on the path of meditation one begins to sense the presence of these faculties within. There is a great temptation to sit by the wayside watching this beautiful scenery of siddhis and if one does not resist, the path and the goal are forgotten. The recent trend in certain meditation circles to popularize siddhis and to sell them for a certain fee, is highly frowned upon by the masters of the Himalayas.-Pundit Usharbudh Arya, lineal holder of Patanjali YS tradition and expert on the practice and commentaries.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Earth turns around the sun not the other way: (How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...)
dhyana ("gliding")
Are they really Gliding.??
The mind is always by its
functioning based on the principle of three gunas: Rishi - Davata-
Chanddhas
"I am Hagen" (subject -
awareness - object) or "You question me" etc.. There is nothing les than
three. If you take one aspect, trying to isolate it, the two
others
silently come along.
Think about it thoroughly !
If you say "I" and
you stop saying more, trying to hide that you wanted to say sometzhing more,
then silently at least the question "I" means what ? By this the three gunas
have been joining together automatically. Either you can make some statement
or you are speech- and meaningless. If you state something, the three are
obviously involved. If you do not state sonething, they are still involved,
because the avoidance as such implies the same again.
Dharana - Dhyana-Samadhi
are synonyms of this first "triangle" of attributes, the same as
sat-chit-ananda are synonyms to the second triangle, Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva
another one orsattwa-rajas-tamasand so
forth.
Dr. Peter Plichta has
been findinginnumerous of such three-attributes based principles in
variousscience disciplines(see alsoGod's secret formula,
Element Books).
Even without practicing
the siddhis you areunder the influence of the same mind-principles. You
can fix a thought (or a an object), but it has to automaticallyturn into
something else, otherwise it would "burn" a hole in your mind, in case it
stayed at the same spot. This act of metamorphosis is the gliding-aspect,
which ends up in an "ecstasy" or new manifestation.
(Some practical exercise:
Draw a cube ona piece of paper and let your mind contemplate on the form
with open eyes. Try to fix it as good as you can. After a few seconds it will
turn its space-direction from back-ground to fore-ground and after a few
seconds back again and so forth.)
If you start with a
mantra you will easily glide (slipping on a bananapeel - see
Course on SCI !!)
automatically into
samadhi (pure consciousness).
Due to the three-guna principle the result is
samadhi.
What does three gunas has
to do with Samadhi.??
Samadhi is the sattwa
guna of the mind (pure ground of consciousness). Dhyana is the rajas-aspect
(dynamic movement) and
dharana is the
tamas-aspect of the mind (fruit or result or manifestation out of the dynamics
of the dhyana-force). The rsult has to to dissolve again, and that is being
done by the influence of transcendence (Samadhi). All three gunas can never be
seen as isolated.
That means, if Samadhi
starts to render its influence, it needs its rajas-nature inherent in it in
order to give place for a new result (manifestation), which is also part of
the sattwic force. This is an infinitely endless and minuteprocess,
taking place at every moment and everywhere, because there is no "space" left
in between any of these processes (advaita-aspect = non-divisibility). And in
thoses moments itself it takes place innumerable times.
99% of the TM-Teachers all over the world have been leaving the
movement. Many of them are still teaching. That is, what Maharishi
wanted.
made so many minds become
independent, not anymore bound to the master. This is the lesson of freedom
Maharishi taught to us
Why does the TM-org rabidly
criticise Deepak Chopra and Sri Sri. Ravishankar.?? TM-governors claim
MMY called him "Sugar-Caned poison".??
I do not know, whether
Ravishankar od Deppak had been called so. But I guess it would preferredly fit
to Ravishankar. When I was living at Gandhinagar/India between October 18,
1997 and September 11, 2001 (!!!) I got in touch with Ravishankars "Art of
Living", and I watched a group of Government-employees practicing "Sudarshan
Kriya" (I hope I remember the name of this practice correctly). I was
shockked, ´because I heard them breathing "like horses" close to be collapsing
into a hyperventilative cramp. It sounded so unnatural and disharmonious to me
that I had the instant impulse to undertake something.
I wrote a letter to him
and got an answer from his secretary: In short the answer was (out of which
you can make out my own inquiry), that Ravishankar would be ready to let me
initiate "hundreds and thousands of his followers" provided a) I got an
authorisation from the TM-Movement to do so and b) that the TM-Movement
stopped to behave like a "fanatic muslim organization"- I was positively
shocked and tried to get in touch with the TM-movement. No reply. Ravishankar
also invited me to come to his place at Andhra Pradesh, but unfortunately I
became sick at that time (getting Malaria) and could not attend the planned
meeting. Later on I did not succeed in getting further in touch with him, only
seeing him on the
