Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. -Xenophaneros Anartaxius 404951 Oblivious or Willful morally unbound? Bringing in and using the TMO as an example may not be illustrative of the nature or nurture of spiritual enlightenment lived in life. Go too far with the TMO example polluted with the story of many people then the conversation goes over to entertaining negativity and would start in to denouncing people in culture. That goes beyond spirituality and enlightenment the way Fleet is clearly talking by example. -Buck anartaxius@... wrote : I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darkness and darkness the right hand of light. Two are one, life and death, lying together like lovers in kemmer, like hands joined together, like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com The Zen
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
Yes, just like that. Good example is Barry's naked and raw envy of my enlightened state. He is at no loss for insults and even screaming in print, about it. He doesn't realize the insights that enlightenment brings to oneself, and would never be able to continue his isolated and nasty existence, along with the deep silence of Being, that accompanies all states of enlightenment. He wants something that he really can't handle, and doesn't know it. It is truly a case of not wanting someone else to have something he cannot accomplish. A sad and frustrating place to be. As they say, it sucks to be him.:-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I never understood envy - what a useless emotion. Envy must be nature's way of saying, Get off your butt, and Do Something. I think you are absolutely right. Envy could lead to positive action. On the other hand, envy seems to stem from a kind of sense of entitlement. Envy does not take in the complexity of why or how someone has, owns or is what they do, it only seems to originate from the fact that someone wants, free, that as well. I have stopped envying anyone because you never know what things really cost or what someone's reality really is. Something seen from the outside is just the shell of the thing a lot of the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. I think it's lack of vision and, yes, envy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur wrote : I guess your TM obsession began the day Fred died? That would make sense. I think Edg called that one. Two teachers whose philosophy you bought into. The second one dies, and then you return to the first. Okay, makes a little more sense now. On 11/19/2014 9:02 AM, awoelflebater wrote: Edg delivered the most succinct and laser-like post to bawee I've ever read. I think bawee's hair is still on fire, the little he has left of it. /Years ago I tried to warn Barry to watch his big pie hole but he wouldn't listen to me - he got whipped real bad by Judy, Delia and Andrew over on Google Groups, which is why he came over to Yahoo Groups. But, he just couldn't shut up, so he copied a bunch of my messages from FFL and then went back over to *alt.meditation.transcendental*. and posted them, along with a challenge for Judy to come over here and continue the discussion. It was a really stooopid thing to do - he really did a bad thing. Apparently this is a pattern because he followed me over to *alt.religion.gnostic* and tried to pick a fight over there about the *Gnostics and the Silk Road*. Barry got really beat up bad by Kater - it was a real spectacle. (//Links on request)./ / /On 11/19/2014 8:40 PM, awoelflebater wrote: /Edg did a pretty good and very succinct job of it here the other day. I'm still marveling. See, I just sit back and do nothing and it accomplishes everything. / / It looks like Edg is on Barry's no-read list now. /// /The really funny thing is, after posting the challenge on Google Groups, Barry then refused to dialog with me, insinuating that I was just a military brat and a hick from Texas who had nothing better to do than screw prairie dogs. The cognitive dissonance is clear: he challenged me to a debate, copied my stuff and posted it, then refused to debate. Which is really weird, since he's a hick from Texas and a military brat with nothing better to do than copy my stuff. Go figure.// /
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
What were you expecting? From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitunoozguru@... [FairfieldLife]FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...[FairfieldLife] wrote: It'snot so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, butI've always gotten a chucklefrom TM is the fastest pathto enlightenment on theplanet, coming from anorganization that in over 50years has been unable toproduce even a single personthey can point at and say,This person is enlightened,and got that way as a resultof practicing TM. What organizationdoes? Just to make apoint about the kinds ofbullshit humans are willing toaccept, think about the TM salespitch for enlightenment,compared to almost anything elsebeing sold on this planet: -- So, that'syour introductory lecture. Justsign here, pay us your $75, andwe promise you that you will befully enlightened in fiveyears. (Please notethat this actually *happened
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Its interesting that so many people today who think Marshy was enlightened and who believe that TM can bring one to enlightenment do not seem to accept his very clear definition of enlightenment which he laid out in both his Gita blabber and his so-called Science of Being. They seem to want to find some OTHER definition of enlightenment that suits them better, like these Adyashanti types who seem to define enlightenment as pretty much whatever you want it to mean so they can claim the crown and get followers. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darknessand darkness the right hand of light.Two are one, life and death, lyingtogether like lovers in kemmer,like hands joined together,like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
like From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor On 11/19/2014 10:45 AM, Share Long wrote: The nutshell about behavior and enlightenement is this: basically in the Gita, God is telling a man to kill, but to do so established in Being. If it's ok to kill established in Being, then logically any action would be ok if the doer is established in Being. Actually it's much simpler than that, Share. We should all be established in Being no matter what we do, and then act. The point of the Gita is that you or I do not actually do anything at all - it is the gunas born of nature that are acting on each other, that are doing the actions - based on your karma. All you have to do is get established in Being and do your duty. It's not complicated. No wonder the CIA checked out the TMO! It's pretty revolutionary stuff if one gets the nitty gritty of it. Also there's a place in his Commentary where Maharishi explains that eventually one also has to become unattached to positivity. IMO, another great thought stopper! On Kohlberg's moral reasoning scale, TMers scored in the more developed category, which is morality unlimited by traditional religious rules. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
like From: 'Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor On 11/19/2014 7:39 AM, steve.sundur wrote: yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it. We are all in a state of cognitive dissonance simply because the world is not exactly as it appears - we don't see and sense things as they really are. There is always a transformation as soon as perception takes place and our consciousness actually changes what the senses perceive. Also the fact that we are living in the past - we don't sense things as they are right now - when we sense anything, it has already changed - we never see ahead because the action in the future is yet to be performed. We live in the past - everything we consciously perceive is at least one-third of a second old. I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/20/2014 9:30 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Its interesting that so many people today who think Marshy was enlightened and who believe that TM can bring one to enlightenment do not seem to accept his very clear definition of enlightenment which he laid out in both his Gita blabber and his so-called Science of Being. They seem to want to find some OTHER definition of enlightenment that suits them better, like these Adyashanti types who seem to define enlightenment as pretty much whatever you want it to mean so they can claim the crown and get followers. You are welcome to advance your own definition of enlightenment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment/spiritual/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_%28spiritual%29 Anyone that appears to be as happy as MMY was, I would consider to be in a state of enlightenment. He apparently had all of his desires fulfilled many times over. He had the ability to laugh and seemed to really enjoy life - he was a success and he attained his goal. You are confused because, there is in fact no objective enlightenment - it's a subjective experience. To be enlightened means simply to be in a natural state, free from suffering. /Confusion arises from erroneously identifying words, objects, and ideas with one another; knowledge of the cries of all creatures comes through perfect discipline of the distinctions between them./ - Patanjali, Yoga Sutras 3.17 *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). *Except *for *me, *there *is no Elohim; **I am forearming you, **yet you *do *not know me, **That they may **know, **From *the *rising of *the *sun and from *the *west, **that *there is *no *one *apart
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
or, or, or, maybe baby Michael has only babyfied understanding of what it entails. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Its interesting that so many people today who think Marshy was enlightened and who believe that TM can bring one to enlightenment do not seem to accept his very clear definition of enlightenment which he laid out in both his Gita blabber and his so-called Science of Being. They seem to want to find some OTHER definition of enlightenment that suits them better, like these Adyashanti types who seem to define enlightenment as pretty much whatever you want it to mean so they can claim the crown and get followers. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darkness and darkness the right hand of light. Two are one, life and death, lying together like lovers in kemmer, like hands joined together, like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. I've heard this rap from him before, and I think he's being simplistic. For example, his model doesn't work for me -- I've had enlightenment experiences, and the way I figure it, if I could have them, *anybody* could. So the belief that it can't happen is not in play. Instead, when I object to someone's claim of being enlightened, in almost every case it's because THEY ARE NOT WALKING THEIR *OWN* TALK. That is, they are acting contrary to their *own* definitions and descriptions of what enlightenment is. That was the problem with Maharishi, it was the problem with Rama-Fred Lenz, and it is *certainly* the problem with low-level poseurs like Jim Flanegin or Robin Carlsen. All four of these people IMO suffered from long-term narcissistic personality disorder all their lives, and so when they had some *minor* experience of boundlessness or witnessing, their own self-centeredness and narcissism made them assume that they were enlightened and they began to claim it to other people. The tell that none of them were, in fact, enlightened is that when all of them are called upon to define what enlightenment is or what it means, *their own thoughts, words, and actions* don't fit their own definitions. It's like they define enlightenment as A, B, and C but then act out X, Y, and Z. They're so narcissistic that they don't notice the discrepancy, and so they think no one will else notice. They're wrong. We notice.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I guess your TM obsession began the day Fred died? That would make sense. I think Edg called that one. Two teachers whose philosophy you bought into. The second one dies, and then you return to the first. Okay, makes a little more sense now. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Yeah, the kinds of supporting myths TM teachers made up around Maharishi's dumb statements were pretty amazing. They felt that they *had* to accept any dumb thing he said, so they'd then have to jump through hoops like this guy to do so. Common sense never entered into it. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: Snip -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy: When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be fulfilled instantly Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know.. Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws of Nature so they may be different to what they are now More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel girlfriends? You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled So what will I desire then? Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job Huh? I don't even get free money? It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law But the Time Machine, I'll get that? I guarantee it (On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer. This guy had NO sense of humour)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Some funny points, like enlightenment would be an LSD trip. Hilarious what the mind imagines as a peaceful state, prior to accomplishing it. The ironic thing is, that once the state establishes itself, the world changes to one that was unimaginable anyway, because there is finally peace within, and that changes everything. As for the personality traits, I find myself more sensitive as the natural expansion of life continues, but otherwise, the main change is the lack of attachment, evident in CC, and so the personality actually gains a greater range, because there is nothing, except judgment, holding it back - everything becomes known, but not everything is expressed. That non-attachment allows the mind to go anywhere it likes; many more cultural and natural edges to explore. As far as old souls, I don't know what is old, except I do know some younger people who are fully enlightened, without having done any techniques, and who have absolutely no interest in spiritual pursuits like meditation. It is not a compartmentalized world for them, like it was for us, with a dedicated spiritual path - That sensitivity and awareness is already baked in, so although they recognize spiritual life and God as natural components to life, those elements have no special significance, because they came onto the planet with that consciousness, already. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : I've always said the experiencing enlightenment is the thing to say even if it is for a few minutes a day. Honestly, I think some folks believe that enlightenment will put them in a perpetual state of celestial consciousness as if you were always on LSD. That, of course, would not be very practical. Basically it is an inner silence which is not pervasive or you could never deal with everyday situations. You'd just have to sit there like a lump. People here who experience that inner silence (and I believe there are probably more than a few here who do) know that they have it when they focus on it but when they need to focus on worldly things it doesn't get in the way. I know a number of people who even just doing TM will say CC was a long time ago. Whether you got there or not seems to depend on your nervous system or maybe if you are more spiritually inclined then development in past incarnations. People like to say that those who popped into are probably old souls. So even the spiritual community will have a group who is sorry to say left behind. If you could force them into enlightenment they might not be able to handle it. Believe me, I also know people who practiced TM and said they never experienced transcendence just some relaxation. I hope they only paid no more than $75 for it then. Another faux paus is that some people believe there are personality markers that indicate enlightenment. That is not true at all. So you can't judge the book by it's cover especially on the Internet. ;-) On 11/18/2014 11:26 AM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people
Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it. I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Yes, the thing goes full circle, from chasing the dream of enlightenment, to gaining the reality of enlightenment (and losing the former dream of enlightenment), and finally, having the enlightenment recreate the dream, in reality. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it. I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : I guess your TM obsession began the day Fred died? That would make sense. I think Edg called that one. Two teachers whose philosophy you bought into. The second one dies, and then you return to the first. Okay, makes a little more sense now. Edg delivered the most succinct and laser-like post to bawee I've ever read. I think bawee's hair is still on fire, the little he has left of it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
LIKE (-: From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Yes, the thing goes full circle, from chasing the dream of enlightenment, to gaining the reality of enlightenment (and losing the former dream of enlightenment), and finally, having the enlightenment recreate the dream, in reality. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : yes, cognitive dissonance once we realize that the enlightened state does have all the outer attributes we associate with it. I have cognitive dissonance along these lines myself that I am working through, or in the discover phase of. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry, The Cave Boy from Leiden, raised by wolves, was the first image that came up - lol seriously, people get locked into all the past pictures of enlightened teachers, and even Maharishi was not exactly a slacks and polo type of guy. And the religions have fucked up the image for good, insisting that solely doing good works (according to them), keeping in line, reading surface prayers, and mouthing platitudes about helping the poor and being nice, will lead to our salvation. So it is a lot of context for us to overcome, to truly gain our freedom, our inner silence, and continue to be ourselves - even though that is the simple end result of enlightenment - fully being ourselves. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : that is funny Jim. a very simple, yet relevant observation. yes, Barry has embarked on the path that has enlightenment as it's conclusion, but just can't handle that someone may have reached the goal. maybe along the lines, if I can't have it, no one can. really, a childish attitude, indicating one might be stuck in a early stage of development. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... An excellent insight. I enjoy Adyashanti's clarity. He also comes from a town in the Bay Area that I am very familiar with, so it gives me an insight into his temperament. This is exactly why I talk about enlightenment - It is possible, and even likely, to realize enlightenment, using the TM and TMSP techniques, and not just by saintly folks, but by ordinary schlubs, like me! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Bhairitu, I find what you write here rich in both common sense and subtle insights. What's tricky about inner silence or the Self, etc. is that the minute you're talking about it, you've turned it into an object. And of course it isn't. For me, a better strategy has been to not try and do that at all. Except for this post (-: I sometimes envy the kapha types who seem so enlightened to me just because they're calm by nature. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I've always said the experiencing enlightenment is the thing to say even if it is for a few minutes a day. Honestly, I think some folks believe that enlightenment will put them in a perpetual state of celestial consciousness as if you were always on LSD. That, of course, would not be very practical. Basically it is an inner silence which is not pervasive or you could never deal with everyday situations. You'd just have to sit there like a lump. People here who experience that inner silence (and I believe there are probably more than a few here who do) know that they have it when they focus on it but when they need to focus on worldly things it doesn't get in the way. I know a number of people who even just doing TM will say CC was a long time ago. Whether you got there or not seems to depend on your nervous system or maybe if you are more spiritually inclined then development in past incarnations. People like to say that those who popped into are probably old souls. So even the spiritual community will have a group who is sorry to say left behind. If you could force them into enlightenment they might not be able to handle it. Believe me, I also know people who practiced TM and said they never experienced transcendence just some relaxation. I hope they only paid no more than $75 for it then. Another faux paus is that some people believe there are personality markers that indicate enlightenment. That is not true at all. So you can't judge the book by it's cover especially on the Internet. ;-) On 11/18/2014 11:26 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitunoozguru@... [FairfieldLife]FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...[FairfieldLife] wrote: It'snot so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, butI've always gotten a chucklefrom TM is the fastest pathto enlightenment on theplanet, coming from anorganization that in over 50years has been unable toproduce even a single personthey can point at and say,This person is enlightened,and got that way as a resultof practicing TM. What organizationdoes? Just to make apoint about the kinds ofbullshit humans are willing toaccept, think about the TM salespitch for enlightenment,compared to almost anything elsebeing sold on this planet: -- So, that'syour introductory lecture. Justsign here, pay us your $75, andwe promise you that you will befully enlightened in fiveyears. (Please notethat this actually *happened*with the TM movement.) --Sounds good, but looking intomy crystal ball that shows methe future, I can see that whatyou're trying to sell me isn'tgoing to cost me only $75, buttens of thousands ofdollars over 30 or 40 years, topay for all the extra coursesand 'add-ons' you'll try to sellme
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can (correction: can't) show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
What were you expecting? He's pretty normal, from what I can tell... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Fleetwood, I don't remember what I was expecting. Maybe for him to be as articulate in person as he is on paper? Doesn't matter. I still love his writing. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor What were you expecting? He's pretty normal, from what I can tell... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitunoozguru@... [FairfieldLife]FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@...[FairfieldLife] wrote: It'snot so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, butI've always gotten a chucklefrom TM is the fastest pathto enlightenment on theplanet, coming from anorganization that in over 50years has been unable toproduce even a single personthey can point at and say,This person is enlightened,and got that way as a resultof practicing TM. What organizationdoes? Just to make apoint about the kinds ofbullshit humans are willing toaccept, think about the TM salespitch for enlightenment,compared to almost anything
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I was just curious - maybe he is not a very flamboyant speaker, or doesn't make an effort to connect with people in his audience?---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I don't remember what I was expecting. Maybe for him to be as articulate in person as he is on paper? Doesn't matter. I still love his writing. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor What were you expecting? He's pretty normal, from what I can tell... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darknessand darkness the right hand of light.Two are one, life and death, lyingtogether like lovers in kemmer,like hands joined together,like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Fleet, generally I eschew flamboyant speakers. But I think it's possible for a speaker to be lively without being flamboyant. It could have been the venue, a huge auditorium with tiers and tiers of seats. And it was packed for his event. From: fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I was just curious - maybe he is not a very flamboyant speaker, or doesn't make an effort to connect with people in his audience? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I don't remember what I was expecting. Maybe for him to be as articulate in person as he is on paper? Doesn't matter. I still love his writing. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor What were you expecting? He's pretty normal, from what I can tell... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitunoozguru
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Ah - sounds more like a concert venue. Wouldn't be fun. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleet, generally I eschew flamboyant speakers. But I think it's possible for a speaker to be lively without being flamboyant. It could have been the venue, a huge auditorium with tiers and tiers of seats. And it was packed for his event. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I was just curious - maybe he is not a very flamboyant speaker, or doesn't make an effort to connect with people in his audience? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Fleetwood, I don't remember what I was expecting. Maybe for him to be as articulate in person as he is on paper? Doesn't matter. I still love his writing. From: fleetwood_macncheese@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor What were you expecting? He's pretty normal, from what I can tell... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Funny about Adya, I love his writing. But when he came to FF and spoke in person, I was somewhat disappointed. Maybe he's an introvert by nature... From: anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. I think it's lack of vision and, yes, envy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
The nutshell about behavior and enlightenement is this: basically in the Gita, God is telling a man to kill, but to do so established in Being. If it's ok to kill established in Being, then logically any action would be ok if the doer is established in Being. No wonder the CIA checked out the TMO! It's pretty revolutionary stuff if one gets the nitty gritty of it. Also there's a place in his Commentary where Maharishi explains that eventually one also has to become unattached to positivity. IMO, another great thought stopper! On Kohlberg's moral reasoning scale, TMers scored in the more developed category, which is morality unlimited by traditional religious rules. From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). Except for me, there is no Elohim; I am forearming you, yet you do not know me, That they may know, From the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is no one apart from me; I am Yahweh, and there is no other. Former of light and creator of darkness, maker of good and creator of evil, I, Yahweh, make all these. Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too). There are similar passage in the Bhagavad-Gita. If everything, good and bad are integral in existence and are sourced from the same origin or have the same being, and we come to direct knowledge of that, what is to prevent us from being all those qualities that (some) people abhor? Light is the left hand of darknessand darkness the right hand of light.Two are one, life and death, lyingtogether like lovers in kemmer,like hands joined together,like the end and the way. —Ursula K. Le Guin From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
I never understood envy - what a useless emotion. Envy must be nature's way of saying, Get off your butt, and Do Something. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. I think it's lack of vision and, yes, envy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/19/2014 9:37 AM, Share Long wrote: Bhairitu, I find what you write here rich in both common sense and subtle insights. What's tricky about inner silence or the Self, etc. is that the minute you're talking about it, you've turned it into an object. And of course it isn't. For me, a better strategy has been to not try and do that at all. Except for this post (-: I sometimes envy the kapha types who seem so enlightened to me just because they're calm by nature. /There's just not much anyone can say about the Absolute except say what it isn't. One of the most absurd rumors I ever heard was the rumor about MMY promising enlightenment in 5-7 years, which is absurd because, by that time there were TMers who had been practicing TM for over 10 years in India. Go figure./ *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:13 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I've always said the experiencing enlightenment is the thing to say even if it is for a few minutes a day. Honestly, I think some folks believe that enlightenment will put them in a perpetual state of celestial consciousness as if you were always on LSD. That, of course, would not be very practical. Basically it is an inner silence which is not pervasive or you could never deal with everyday situations. You'd just have to sit there like a lump. People here who experience that inner silence (and I believe there are probably more than a few here who do) know that they have it when they focus on it but when they need to focus on worldly things it doesn't get in the way. I know a number of people who even just doing TM will say CC was a long time ago. Whether you got there or not seems to depend on your nervous system or maybe if you are more spiritually inclined then development in past incarnations. People like to say that those who popped into are probably old souls. So even the spiritual community will have a group who is sorry to say left behind. If you could force them into enlightenment they might not be able to handle it. Believe me, I also know people who practiced TM and said they never experienced transcendence just some relaxation. I hope they only paid no more than $75 for it then. Another faux paus is that some people believe there are personality markers that indicate enlightenment. That is not true at all. So you can't judge the book by it's cover especially on the Internet. ;-) On 11/18/2014 11:26 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com mailto:sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/19/2014 10:45 AM, Share Long wrote: The nutshell about behavior and enlightenement is this: basically in the Gita, God is telling a man to kill, but to do so established in Being. If it's ok to kill established in Being, then logically any action would be ok if the doer is established in Being. /Actually it's much simpler than that, Share. We should all be established in Being no matter what we do, and then act. The point of the Gita is that you or I do not actually do anything at all - it is the gunas born of nature that are acting on each other, that are doing the actions - based on your karma.// // //All you have to do is get established in Being and do your duty.//It's not complicated./ No wonder the CIA checked out the TMO! It's pretty revolutionary stuff if one gets the nitty gritty of it. Also there's a place in his Commentary where Maharishi explains that eventually one also has to become unattached to positivity. IMO, another great thought stopper! On Kohlberg's moral reasoning scale, TMers scored in the more developed category, which is morality unlimited by traditional religious rules. *From:* Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:20 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor I think this brings up an interesting point. How does one define 'enlightenment'. The most overreaching attempts include the entire universe as a connected unity, and that would imply simply that all that exists is what enlightenment is about. If you include everything you cannot define enlightenment as A, B, C minus some bad parts you do not like. So if, simplistically the universe is A, B, C, X, Y, and Z, you have to include them all. There is a phrase in Zen 'walk off with the farmer's ox, steal the blind man's food', which is an expression of unboundedness. This is kind of how the TMO behaves. From my perspective, enlightenment does not have any injunctions on behaviour in spite of advertisements to the contrary, all enlightenment does is reveal the connectedness of the universe, and if you want to be a 'good person', first you have to define what a good person is, and then you have to act that way, and that is a local phenomenon, an aspect of the universe far reduced from the whole. You could be enlightened and a criminal. If you listen to Charles Manson (I saw that picture online too), while he seems sort of crazy, he also often expresses unboundedness in his understanding of the world. Religions, which presumably have some connexion with the idea of enlightenment have all these rules for governing behaviour, and the question one could ask is, if religion is so great and will straighten people out, why are these rules necessary? (and one could also ask why are the rules inconsistent between religions regarding behaviour). If you say god created the universe and the way it runs, then the universe is a serial killer. Like father, like son and daughter. Looking at religious figures, gurus, etc., one cannot conclude that these rules and enlightenment techniques substantially affect behaviour that we would call 'bad'. This issue of behaviour is one which we in civilised society do not seem to have much of a clue on how to solve, and all the methods we have invented to fix it have failed. How do you traverse society without leaving mangled bodies, psychologically damaged bodies, emotionally damaged bodies, in your wake? There does not seem to be a direct connexion with seeing the world as unbounded, and acting in it in a bound way unless there is an internal switch that pains you if you cause harm. Some people do not seem to have that switch (sociopaths and psychopaths), or a 'damaged' switch and have reduced empathy. Some people are crushed by having too much empathy. If you eliminate pain and suffering from your own life, will you care about others if life no longer pains you? There seems to be a variable in all this that is not accounted for and which does not seem to be affected much by the things people do in the hope of gaining enlightenment. An example of unboundedness and unity from the Bible. Isaiah, in a literal translation (bolded are words in original Hebrew). *Except *for *me, *there *is no Elohim; **I am forearming you, **yet you *do *not know me, **That they may **know, **From *the *rising of *the *sun and from *the *west, **that *there is *no *one *apart from me; **I *am *Yahweh, and *there *is no **other. **Former//*of *light and creator*//of *darkness, **maker*//of *good*//*and creator*//of *evil, **I, Yahweh, **make*//*all these**.* * * Here you have all the darkness you would want emanating from the supposed source of creation (a great way to express narcissism too
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur wrote : I guess your TM obsession began the day Fred died? That would make sense. I think Edg called that one. Two teachers whose philosophy you bought into. The second one dies, and then you return to the first. Okay, makes a little more sense now. On 11/19/2014 9:02 AM, awoelflebater wrote: Edg delivered the most succinct and laser-like post to bawee I've ever read. I think bawee's hair is still on fire, the little he has left of it. /Years ago I tried to warn Barry to watch his big pie hole but he wouldn't listen to me - he got whipped real bad by Judy, Delia and Andrew over on Google Groups, which is why he came over to Yahoo Groups. But, he just couldn't shut up, so he copied a bunch of my messages from FFL and then went back over to *alt.meditation.transcendental*. and posted them, along with a challenge for Judy to come over here and continue the discussion. It was a really stooopid thing to do - he really did a bad thing. Apparently this is a pattern because he followed me over to *alt.religion.gnostic* and tried to pick a fight over there about the *Gnostics and the Silk Road*. Barry got really beat up bad by Kater - it was a real spectacle. (//Links on request)./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. *From:* Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /(Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)* */ /* */-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it?/* */ /* */-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?/* */ /* */-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I never understood envy - what a useless emotion. Envy must be nature's way of saying, Get off your butt, and Do Something. I think you are absolutely right. Envy could lead to positive action. On the other hand, envy seems to stem from a kind of sense of entitlement. Envy does not take in the complexity of why or how someone has, owns or is what they do, it only seems to originate from the fact that someone wants, free, that as well. I have stopped envying anyone because you never know what things really cost or what someone's reality really is. Something seen from the outside is just the shell of the thing a lot of the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. I think it's lack of vision and, yes, envy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur wrote : I guess your TM obsession began the day Fred died? That would make sense. I think Edg called that one. Two teachers whose philosophy you bought into. The second one dies, and then you return to the first. Okay, makes a little more sense now. On 11/19/2014 9:02 AM, awoelflebater wrote: Edg delivered the most succinct and laser-like post to bawee I've ever read. I think bawee's hair is still on fire, the little he has left of it. Years ago I tried to warn Barry to watch his big pie hole but he wouldn't listen to me - he got whipped real bad by Judy, Delia and Andrew over on Google Groups, which is why he came over to Yahoo Groups. But, he just couldn't shut up, so he copied a bunch of my messages from FFL and then went back over to alt.meditation.transcendental. and posted them, along with a challenge for Judy to come over here and continue the discussion. It was a really stooopid thing to do - he really did a bad thing. Apparently this is a pattern because he followed me over to alt.religion.gnostic and tried to pick a fight over there about the Gnostics and the Silk Road. Barry got really beat up bad by Kater - it was a real spectacle. (Links on request). Edg did a pretty good and very succinct job of it here the other day. I'm still marveling. See, I just sit back and do nothing and it accomplishes everything.
Re: Enlightened householders [was Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor]
Re ENVY: Yes, I've always regarded it as an odd vice! It's really wishing that you weren't who in fact you are. I mean, I can idly fantasize about being a Wimbledon champion but as I'm not fit, I have minimal will power and couldn't be arsed to train every day, I've clearly never been Wimbledon material. So for me to be envious of someone who is a tennis star would be a very superficial and ridiculous reaction. Your remark about what someone else's reality really is hits the nail on the head. You have to start from where you are and either settle for it or up your game. The odd thing is that as we live in such a celebrity obsessed age our views are clearly not those of the majority. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : I never understood envy - what a useless emotion. Envy must be nature's way of saying, Get off your butt, and Do Something. I think you are absolutely right. Envy could lead to positive action. On the other hand, envy seems to stem from a kind of sense of entitlement. Envy does not take in the complexity of why or how someone has, owns or is what they do, it only seems to originate from the fact that someone wants, free, that as well. I have stopped envying anyone because you never know what things really cost or what someone's reality really is. Something seen from the outside is just the shell of the thing a lot of the time. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Yep. Seems like the idea of average people like me walking around enlightened, with the ability to act in a spontaneous way, is frightening to some. Must be an ego thing. I think it's lack of vision and, yes, envy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : So, there has never been a model, of how an enlightened person acts, as a householder. Maharishi brought out a lot of elements regarding diet, architecture, health, and even fashion (saris and crowns, robes and cream colored suits) that although provocative, and even quietly revolutionary, will only be adopted by a tiny minority. The trick is to weave an enlightened life within our own culture, and culture in the West favors the individual, so we are back to square one. :-) This is what I don't get, the idea that some people have that you can know who is enlightened and who isn't. The fact that they can have this ingrained set of ideas of how enlightened people act is quite hilarious. I mean, on what are these ideas based? Where did they come from? It seems like if enlightened people were to follow the 'guidelines' of what some here seem to think enlightenment means you'd be the most boring person on the planet. Perhaps their ideas are along the lines of acting like some bookish saint, doing plenty of volunteer time at your local food kitchen and ASPCA, donating a few organs and baking pies and casseroles for the neighborhood after having built your neighbor's barn and knitted a slew of sweaters for the needy. I say most have very old fashioned and limited views on this enlightenment business. What, an enlightened person can show anger or impatience? Pish posh.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi. As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one. This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps. But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but yourself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi. As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one. This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Made even more interesting in light of the assertion of Deepak Chopra that
Marshy himself was poisoned some years ago, with Deepak of course cast in the
role of savior, or co-savior perhaps
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here,
Vaj.
Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the
other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's
more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's
why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more
important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps.
But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he
got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him
because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I
hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but
yourself.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :
On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jacksonwrote:
Ithink I asked this once a long time ago, but I amposting this again if so:
Whatwas the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard?
The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on aninternet discussion group.
The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered hismaster SBS, by
poisoning his food in a conspiracy with theJyotirmath Ashram cook.
The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS'sspecial ring and
ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will,the cook would get the
Shankaracharya highchair at the UpperKashi.
As far as rumors go, it is going to bedifficult to top this one.
Thiswould be something that was not part of the official TMcannon, nor any of
the majorly accepted ones (likeMarshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or
yogicflying brings world peace)
I amtalking about the boundless rumors we all heard oncourses and in TM
facilities and from TM old timers.
Minewould I think have to be the idea that having animalsaround when you are
meditating drains your energy. Thatone supposedly came from Marshy himself but
who knows.
Otherthan that it would be Claire Baxter's classic nevermeditate with your hair
wet because the stress yourelease comes out of your crown chakra, and if your
hairis wet the stress slides down your hair and goes intoyour lower spine.
Iinclude that one second, just because I only heard itfrom that one person and
the animal energy drain was oneI heard a lot from lots of different people.
Howbout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed
by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
#yiv5602691872 #yiv5602691872 -- #yiv5602691872ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Made even more interesting in light of the assertion of Deepak Chopra that Marshy himself was poisoned some years ago, with Deepak of course cast in the role of savior, or co-savior perhaps I'd forgotten all that, the plot thickens! Is the spiritual world this crazy for people in other groups? From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps. But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but yourself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi. As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one. This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What
bs.
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group
headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
#yiv4168338311 #yiv4168338311 -- #yiv4168338311ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv4168338311
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for
the various levels. How is that different?
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment???
What bs.
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group
headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
#yiv6786144546 #yiv6786144546 -- #yiv6786144546ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Now you know that's not true - Marshy said Andy Rhymer and Robin Carlsen were
enlightened! There, proof positive that enlightenment does not carry decent
behavior with it, or more likely proof positive that Marshy was a liar and
huckster who would occasionally get caught in his own web of lies. What do you
do when some guy stands up in a group and talks experiences that are exactly
what the guru said constitutes enlightenment? You say Oh, yeah, you are
enlightened! See proof that my meditation works! then you bank on the fact
that these guys will fade away and people will forget about it. You don't
entertain the idea they may be child molesters of whacked out cult leaders to
be.
As to Share's assertion that certain groups claim many enlightened members,
if one takes Marshy's definition especially of enlightenment, there should be
obvious signs of many enlightened people from the absolute support of nature
these people would be getting, plus the waves of amazing vibes they should be
giving off - in short, it is a big fat fantasy on the part of the certificate
holders and a blatant and rather crude action on the part of the gurus to
maintain the gravy train.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
always strange, what makes a good day for some people. (-: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Made even more interesting in light of the assertion of Deepak Chopra that Marshy himself was poisoned some years ago, with Deepak of course cast in the role of savior, or co-savior perhaps I'd forgotten all that, the plot thickens! Is the spiritual world this crazy for people in other groups? From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps. But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but yourself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi. As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one. This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote :
Made even more interesting in light of the assertion of Deepak Chopra that
Marshy himself was poisoned some years ago, with Deepak of course cast in the
role of savior, or co-savior perhaps
I'd forgotten all that, the plot thickens! Is the spiritual world this crazy
for people in other groups?
It can get much worse. Any time you have a group of people so lacking in real
self-esteem that they gain pretty much ALL of their sense of self-worth from 1)
the teacher they work with, 2) the group of people they're part of, or 3) both,
you've got the potential for major craziness.
They feel the need to constantly invent new myth-pedestals to put their
teachers on, because they believe that the higher they can pretend their
teacher is, the higher they are. Even crazier, the groups feel the need to
constantly put down other groups, because they believe that if they can make
these other groups appear shorter, they'll appear taller.
Too bad it doesn't work that way.
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote :
Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here,
Vaj.
Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the
other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's
more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's
why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more
important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps.
But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he
got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him
because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I
hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but
yourself.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote :
On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jacksonwrote:
Ithink I asked this once a long time ago, but I amposting this again if so:
Whatwas the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard?
The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on aninternet discussion group.
The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered hismaster SBS, by
poisoning his food in a conspiracy with theJyotirmath Ashram cook.
The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS'sspecial ring and
ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will,the cook would get the
Shankaracharya highchair at the UpperKashi.
As far as rumors go, it is going to bedifficult to top this one.
Thiswould be something that was not part of the official TMcannon, nor any of
the majorly accepted ones (likeMarshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or
yogicflying brings world peace)
I amtalking about the boundless rumors we all heard oncourses and in TM
facilities and from TM old timers.
Minewould I think have to be the idea that having animalsaround when you are
meditating drains your energy. Thatone supposedly came from Marshy himself but
who knows.
Otherthan that it would be Claire Baxter's classic nevermeditate with your hair
wet because the stress yourelease comes out of your crown chakra, and if your
hairis wet the stress slides down your hair and goes intoyour lower spine.
Iinclude that one second, just because I only heard itfrom that one person and
the animal energy drain was oneI heard a lot from lots of different people.
Howbout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
uh, you might relate more to a certificate of bs. might fit your posting style a little better! lovin' ya, though! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Is this the reason you troll, so that others will expose your brokenness? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Made even more interesting in light of the assertion of Deepak Chopra that Marshy himself was poisoned some years ago, with Deepak of course cast in the role of savior, or co-savior perhaps I'd forgotten all that, the plot thickens! Is the spiritual world this crazy for people in other groups? It can get much worse. Any time you have a group of people so lacking in real self-esteem that they gain pretty much ALL of their sense of self-worth from 1) the teacher they work with, 2) the group of people they're part of, or 3) both, you've got the potential for major craziness. They feel the need to constantly invent new myth-pedestals to put their teachers on, because they believe that the higher they can pretend their teacher is, the higher they are. Even crazier, the groups feel the need to constantly put down other groups, because they believe that if they can make these other groups appear shorter, they'll appear taller. Too bad it doesn't work that way. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. Of course it was rubbish but it comes from the same sort of place that the other rumours have, the place where Marshy has to be a superman, obviously it's more inspiring if your guru has amazing powers like walking on water. That's why they invent these stories, it makes the decision to follow him to be a more important one than just choosing a type of meditation. Divine assurance perhaps. But I don't think Vaj invented it, it was part of Earl Kaplan's letter and he got it from whatever source in India he spoke to. I felt a bit sorry for him because he got duped by one cult and ran straight into the arms of another. I hope he's got some smarts at last and realised there is no authority but yourself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi. As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one. This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Good God woman, if you can seriously ask that question you need serious
intervention.
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery
for the various levels. How is that different?
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment???
What bs.
From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group
headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for the various levels. How is that different? I always thought that I should get a black belt for my yogic flying. I was proper good at it. Invincible defence from the unified field 3rd Dan, that was me. Sigh. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Great, salyavin! But did you ENJOY?
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for
the various levels. How is that different?
I always thought that I should get a black belt for my yogic flying. I was
proper good at it. Invincible defence from the unified field 3rd Dan, that was
me. Sigh.
From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment???
What bs.
From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed
by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Great, Salyavin! But did you ENJOY? At first I liked the TMSP but after a while it was more of a drag than a pleasure. Like TM I think most of the pleasure derived are from the effects are you are told are happening but aren't really. When you forget the hyperbole there isn't that much to TM (but I still enjoy it) I don't remember there being much of anything to the TMSP at all, some nice experiences occasionally but mostly the opposite. And then I resented the amount of time it took before finally giving up, why it took so long for me to quit is a sign of the teaching methods effectiveness, being involved in cultish behaviour like that can make it hard to look honestly at what you are doing. But one day, I looked around the flying room and concluded the whole thing was bollocks and walked out. I have been much happier ever since. Others I know still like it, go figure. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for the various levels. How is that different? I always thought that I should get a black belt for my yogic flying. I was proper good at it. Invincible defence from the unified field 3rd Dan, that was me. Sigh. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. Maybe you just met some more realistic teachers, I heard many say that TM isn't the only path but it's the fastest one And that the siddhi's were like getting into the fast lane and putting your foot down. And I would swear that I heard Maharishi say it all too but can't give any context like whether it was from an old tape or from the Marshy channel. But where do you suppose the teachers got it from if not from the reesh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Do your still TMSP practicing friends have tea with you, or do they avoid you
so as to not catch the OTP disease?
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
Great, Salyavin! But did you ENJOY?
At first I liked the TMSP but after a while it was more of a drag than a
pleasure. Like TM I think most of the pleasure derived are from the effects are
you are told are happening but aren't really. When you forget the hyperbole
there isn't that much to TM (but I still enjoy it) I don't remember there being
much of anything to the TMSP at all, some nice experiences occasionally but
mostly the opposite.
And then I resented the amount of time it took before finally giving up, why it
took so long for me to quit is a sign of the teaching methods effectiveness,
being involved in cultish behaviour like that can make it hard to look honestly
at what you are doing. But one day, I looked around the flying room and
concluded the whole thing was bollocks and walked out.
I have been much happier ever since. Others I know still like it, go figure.
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote :
MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for
the various levels. How is that different?
I always thought that I should get a black belt for my yogic flying. I was
proper good at it. Invincible defence from the unified field 3rd Dan, that was
me. Sigh.
From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment???
What bs.
From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed
by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them
certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of
seeker.
From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to
present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Do your still TMSP practicing friends have tea with you, or do they avoid you so as to not catch the OTP disease? No one even mentions it, we don't talk much about movement things, except to find out what's going on with peace palaces and gossip etc. Or maybe they don't know! I haven't run into any real TBs recently but a few did tell me that I'll always be classed as a siddha even if I'm not doing it at the moment. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : Great, Salyavin! But did you ENJOY? At first I liked the TMSP but after a while it was more of a drag than a pleasure. Like TM I think most of the pleasure derived are from the effects are you are told are happening but aren't really. When you forget the hyperbole there isn't that much to TM (but I still enjoy it) I don't remember there being much of anything to the TMSP at all, some nice experiences occasionally but mostly the opposite. And then I resented the amount of time it took before finally giving up, why it took so long for me to quit is a sign of the teaching methods effectiveness, being involved in cultish behaviour like that can make it hard to look honestly at what you are doing. But one day, I looked around the flying room and concluded the whole thing was bollocks and walked out. I have been much happier ever since. Others I know still like it, go figure. From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 8:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for the various levels. How is that different? I always thought that I should get a black belt for my yogic flying. I was proper good at it. Invincible defence from the unified field 3rd Dan, that was me. Sigh. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /(Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)* */ /* */-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it?/* */ /* */-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?/* */ /* */-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it./* */ /* */-- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.'/* */ /* */-- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it?/* */ /* */-- That's right./* */ /* */-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce?/* */ /* */-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. /* */ /* */:-)/* It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the other front runners.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /(Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)* */ /* */-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it?/* */ /* */-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?/* */ /* */-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it./* */ /* */-- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.'/* */ /* */-- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it?/* */ /* */-- That's right./* */ /* */-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce?/* */ /* */-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. /* */ /* */:-)/* But now I have to ask: did you claim this in *your* intro lectures? Are you guilty as charged? I don't recall claiming this in mine. :-D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: Snip -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy: When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be fulfilled instantly Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know.. Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws of Nature so they may be different to what they are now More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel girlfriends? You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled So what will I desire then? Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job Huh? I don't even get free money? It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law But the Time Machine, I'll get that? I guarantee it (On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer. This guy had NO sense of humour)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the other front runners. Bhairitu, it's not guaranteeing enlightenment that I'm riffing on for hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never *producing* it I'm riffing on. That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too stupid to ever say, Now wait a minute...where are all these enlightened people you promised me I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to me. Show me an enlightened person. Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the counterpart of the line in the fairy tale that goes, Uh, guys...you *have* noticed that the Emperor has no clothes on, right? Asked to put up or shut up and actually *produce* a certified TM enlightened person, the TMO wouldn't have been able to do so. It's all a house of cards perpetuated by the fact that no one ever says, Show me an enlightened person.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) But now I have to ask: did you claim this in your intro lectures? Are you guilty as charged? I don't recall claiming this in mine. :-D The claims in intro lectures and printed brochures guaranteeing enlightenment in 5 to 8 years were from the 1967-1969 period. I didn't become a TM teacher until 1972. I am not enough of a TM movement historian to document exactly *when* such claims began to disappear from TM lectures and promotional materials, but I would bet that it was coincidentally about five years after they first appeared. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
That's excellent - a great summation of the TMO's sales pitches!
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
What organization does?
Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept,
think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything
else being sold on this planet:
-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and
we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note
that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)
-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I
can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but
tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra
courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and
that if it does, it's worth it?
-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the
lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have
everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?
-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this
'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many
people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out
the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is
all going to be worth it.
-- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our
individual state of consciousness.'
-- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can
guarantee has achieved it?
-- That's right.
-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?
-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker.
:-)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Share claims some orgs are giving out certificates in enlightenment so they
must guarantee it somehow or other.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
What organization does?
Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to
accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost
anything else being sold on this planet:
-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75,
and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please
note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)
-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future,
I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75,
but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra
courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and
that if it does, it's worth it?
-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the
lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have
everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?
-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that
this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are
many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out
the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is
all going to be worth it.
-- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about
our individual state of consciousness.'
-- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can
guarantee has achieved it?
-- That's right.
-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?
-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker.
:-)
It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of
guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's
progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means
would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's
nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the
other front runners.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Even after all I have seen and heard some of the TM junkie mentality is still
hard to believe.
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
It's not so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten achuckle from TM is the fastest path toenlightenment on the planet,
coming from anorganization that in over 50 years has been unableto produce even
a single person they can point atand say, This person is enlightened, and got
thatway as a result of practicing TM.
What organization does?
Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept,
think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything
else being sold on this planet:
Snip
-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?
-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker.
:-)
Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy:
When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be
fulfilled instantly
Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know..
Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws
of Nature so they may be different to what they are now
More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel
girlfriends?
You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled
So what will I desire then?
Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job
Huh? I don't even get free money?
It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law
But the Time Machine, I'll get that?
I guarantee it
(On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer.
This guy had NO sense of humour)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 3:59 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: Indeed. And it was put forward by the infamous Buddhist that used to post here, Vaj. And, don't forget the ColdBluIce, the discredited bhakti yoga impostor. According to these two rumor-mongers, SBS died because the Jyotirmath Ashram cook, in a conspiracy with the Mahesh Yogi, put poison in his food when they were down in Calcutta on a speaking tour. However, everyone knows that the cook was not even in Calcutta with SBS on that tour, and not even at the Jyotirmath - he was at the ashram in Allahabad when SBS died. According to the rumor, the cook was a guy named /Tilwari/, a former book-binder. In reality, the Jyotirmath cook was Swami Shantanand Saraswati, the foremost student of SBS. According to the rumor, the cook wanted to sit on the Shankaracharya high chair under the big umbrella, so he killed the Shankaracharya by putting something in his food. However, it should be noted that the cook, Shantanand, was mentioned in the will of SBS as his successor. So, Shantanand was the only direct-line disciple in the SBS succession tradition. Why would Shantanand want to kill SBS when he was already in direct line to succeed SBS in just a few years? It doesn't even make any sense. For the record, nobody has contested the SBS will in a court of Indian law. The rest of the rumor - /about the ring and the yantra/ - doesn't make any sens either. According to Perino and Vaj, the Mahesh Yogi couldn't get the high chair for caste reasons, so in a conspiracy with the ashram cook, SBS was murdered so that Mahesh could get the ring and the yantra. What ring? SBS didn't wear a ring on his finger and neither did MMY. It has not even been proven that SBS was in possession of a ruby-encrusted yantra - that's just another rumor! So, where is the SBS yantra and ring now? At Bevan's house? The whole rumor is just beyond belief and absurd on it's face put up by idiots. /That's what I think./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/17/2014 10:11 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: I think I asked this once a long time ago, but I am posting this again if so: What was the most absurd TM rumor you ever heard? /The most absurd rumor I ever heard was on an internet discussion group. The rumor posted claimed that the Maharishi had murdered his master SBS, by poisoning his food in a conspiracy with the Jyotirmath Ashram cook. The motive apparently was for the Mahesh Yogi to get SBS's special ring and ruby-encrusted yantra. And, with a forged will, the cook would get the Shankaracharya highchair at the Upper Kashi./ /As far as rumors go, it is going to be difficult to top this one./ This would be something that was not part of the official TM cannon, nor any of the majorly accepted ones (like Marshy's enlightened, TM brings enlightenment or yogic flying brings world peace) I am talking about the boundless rumors we all heard on courses and in TM facilities and from TM old timers. Mine would I think have to be the idea that having animals around when you are meditating drains your energy. That one supposedly came from Marshy himself but who knows. Other than that it would be Claire Baxter's classic never meditate with your hair wet because the stress you release comes out of your crown chakra, and if your hair is wet the stress slides down your hair and goes into your lower spine. I include that one second, just because I only heard it from that one person and the animal energy drain was one I heard a lot from lots of different people. How bout yours? Most absurd TM rumor?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 7:09 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: MJ, surely some qigong and kung fu programs offer certificates of mastery for the various levels. How is that different? /It's not any different, Share - it's just the cognitive dissonance with MJ. In fact, in Qigong they give out belts of various colors to signify attainment. Everyone already knows that. All schools have certificates - the only thing in doubt is if MJ ever got one in anything, even High School. Go figure./ *From:* Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:00 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. *From:* Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. /* */ /* */Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I only know that the Oneness organization headed by Bhagavan and Amma give such
certificates to those who are authorized to give diksha by touch. There are
only about 60 who give diksha by sight and their requirements are much more
strenuous.
From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Share claims some orgs are giving out certificates in enlightenment so they
must guarantee it somehow or other.
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
wrote:
It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet,
coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce
even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened,
and got that way as a result of practicing TM.
What organization does?
Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to
accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost
anything else being sold on this planet:
-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75,
and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please
note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)
-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future,
I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75,
but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra
courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince
me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and
that if it does, it's worth it?
-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8
years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the
lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have
everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of
thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?
-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that
this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are
many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8
years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out
the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is
all going to be worth it.
-- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about
our individual state of consciousness.'
-- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this
enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can
guarantee has achieved it?
-- That's right.
-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?
-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker.
:-)
It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of
guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's
progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means
would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's
nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the
other front runners.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
salyavin, I think few folks could match you for sense of humor. Yours is pretty
darn developed.
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBeeturquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
It's not so much a rumor, more ofa sales pitch or claim, but I've always
gotten achuckle from TM is the fastest path toenlightenment on the planet,
coming from anorganization that in over 50 years has been unableto produce even
a single person they can point atand say, This person is enlightened, and got
thatway as a result of practicing TM.
What organization does?
Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept,
think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything
else being sold on this planet:
Snip
-- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to
something you'll later refuse to ever produce?
-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this
exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker.
:-)
Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy:
When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be
fulfilled instantly
Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know..
Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws
of Nature so they may be different to what they are now
More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel
girlfriends?
You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled
So what will I desire then?
Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job
Huh? I don't even get free money?
It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law
But the Time Machine, I'll get that?
I guarantee it
(On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer.
This guy had NO sense of humour)
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I'd forgotten all that, the plot thickens! Is the spiritual world this crazy for people in other groups? On 11/18/2014 7:09 AM, TurquoiseBee wrote: */It can get much worse. Any time you have a group of people so lacking in real self-esteem that they gain pretty much ALL of their sense of self-worth from 1) the teacher they work with, 2) the group of people they're part of, or 3) both, you've got the potential for major craziness./* /**/ Oh Gawd - this is getting to be too much for us to deal with - this is the exact opposite of what you just posted on your web site! /So what you do is, if you are not capable of going into samadhi yourself, you try and find a teacher who is, and you sit with them on a weekly or monthly or daily basis, depending on your proximity to the teacher. And just to be around them, if the teacher is truly enlightened, that energy and light is always coming forth from them./ - Rama */They feel the need to constantly invent new myth-pedestals to put their teachers on, because they believe that the higher they can pretend their teacher is, the higher they are. Even crazier, the groups feel the need to constantly put down other groups, because they believe that if they can make these other groups appear shorter, they'll appear taller. /* /To be in their physical presence is a great boon, not of the teacher but of that light which passes through them. If you can develop a connection, what we call an inner connection with the teacher, then it is not even necessary to be in the physical presence of the teacher, although it will always be stronger. - /Rama */Too bad it doesn't work that way./* How could a single person get so confused? Go figure. http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm03.html http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm03.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the other front runners. Bhairitu, it's not guaranteeing enlightenment that I'm riffing on for hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never *producing* it I'm riffing on. That, and the fact that they got away with it because their clientele was too stupid to ever say, Now wait a minute...where are all these enlightened people you promised me I'd be surrounded by and be one of? Point them out to me. Show me an enlightened person. Someone saying that -- *anyone* saying that -- would have been the counterpart of the line in the fairy tale that goes, Uh, guys...you *have* noticed that the Emperor has no clothes on, right? Asked to put up or shut up and actually *produce* a certified TM enlightened person, the TMO wouldn't have
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means would it be the fastest. It really is just a meditation for the masses. It's nothing special other than it was probably better organized than some of the other front runners. Bhairitu, it's not guaranteeing enlightenment that I'm riffing on for hopefully humorous purposes. It's the promising it for 50 years and never *producing* it I'm riffing
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it? -- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us? -- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk to them to figure out if this is all going to be worth it. -- Sorry. insert reverential tone of bullshit here 'We don't talk about our individual state of consciousness.' -- WTF? So you're saying that I just have to TRUST you about all this enlightenment stuff, and you are NEVER going to show me anyone who you can guarantee has achieved it? -- That's right. -- You DO know that this is insane, right? Promising the 'fastest path' to something you'll later refuse to ever produce? -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. :-) It's a path to enlightenment but my point was that no organization I know of guarantees it. You can't. It even goes against TM teaching because one's progress is dependent on the state of their nervous system. And by no means
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 7:12 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. It's an amazing case study, Steve. So, I wonder how a guy like Barry could get so totally turned around in such a short space of time? Why would anyone upload mystical phrases to their own web site, and then go on a public news group and disclaim everything they just wrote? Go figure. From Barry's own web site: /You don't need to be able to absorb a tremendous amount of the mystical kundalini to realize God. It's not necessary. You can do it through the supraconscious light; that is the easier way./ - Rama http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm03.html ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. /* */ /* */Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 7:17 AM, steve.sundur wrote: uh, you might relate more to a certificate of bs. might fit your posting style a little better! /Or, a GED certificate. / lovin' ya, though! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote : Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. *From:* Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. /* */ /* */Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I've always said the experiencing enlightenment is the thing to say even if it is for a few minutes a day. Honestly, I think some folks believe that enlightenment will put them in a perpetual state of celestial consciousness as if you were always on LSD. That, of course, would not be very practical. Basically it is an inner silence which is not pervasive or you could never deal with everyday situations. You'd just have to sit there like a lump. People here who experience that inner silence (and I believe there are probably more than a few here who do) know that they have it when they focus on it but when they need to focus on worldly things it doesn't get in the way. I know a number of people who even just doing TM will say CC was a long time ago. Whether you got there or not seems to depend on your nervous system or maybe if you are more spiritually inclined then development in past incarnations. People like to say that those who popped into are probably old souls. So even the spiritual community will have a group who is sorry to say left behind. If you could force them into enlightenment they might not be able to handle it. Believe me, I also know people who practiced TM and said they never experienced transcendence just some relaxation. I hope they only paid no more than $75 for it then. Another faux paus is that some people believe there are personality markers that indicate enlightenment. That is not true at all. So you can't judge the book by it's cover especially on the Internet. ;-) On 11/18/2014 11:26 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net mailto:noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com mailto:turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /(Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.)* */ /* */-- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth it?/* */ /* */-- Well, you just have to trust us. Give us your money now, and in 5 to 8 years (ooops, sorry about that) you'll be enlightened. And you've heard the lectures -- when you're enlightened, you'll be able to know everything and have everything you want just by wanting it. Isn't that worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars (ooops again) you'll wind up paying us?/* */ /* */-- It *might* be worth it, but what can you show me to prove to me that this 'enlightenment' you're selling me actually exists? For example, there are many people here in the room today who have been practicing TM for more than 8 years, the maximum time you say it will take to become enlightened. Point out the ones who are enlightened, and let me talk
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
The Zen trained Adyashanti had this to say about 'enlightenment success': 'When I looked around at the Buddhist tradition, I realized that the success rate was terrible. People were in it for enlightenment, but very few were actually getting enlightened. If this were a business, I thought, we'd be bankrupt.' 'I think it's unfortunate that a person can spend hour after hour, day after day, year after year, dedicating his life to enlightenment, and yet the very notion that anybody attains enlightenment is a taboo. We're all going after this; but God forbid somebody says they've realized it. We don't believe them, we're cynical, we have doubt; we go immediately into a semi- (or overt) attack mode. To me, it highlights the fact that people are chasing an awakening they don't believe could happen to them. That's a barrier, and the biggest one... And when people have breakthroughs and talk about them in public, awakening loses its mystique. Everyone else can see that it's not just special people who have deep awakenings, it's their neighbor or their best friend.' The TMO seemed to do pretty well for a while selling something nobody seems to have found. Perhaps one reason for this is the ideas we have in our heads about what enlightenment is supposed to be. The usual ideas about what enlightenment is, are something out of a comic book, something fantastical. Maybe it is something not quite so interesting to talk about, something so familiar that you discount it entirely. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote : MJ, speak for yourself! I was never chasing enlightenment. I simply wanted to fulfill my desires. From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor And yet from the very beginning of the Movement till about the 1980's enlightenment was what we were all chasing and what Marshy emphasized over and over. Till it became obvious that no one was getting enlightened even with the 10,000 times more powerful than TM TMSP program so he switched to world peace. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor First of all, I'm familiar with spiritual groups who proclaim people enlightened. I didn't always agree with their proclamations! And as mentioned, I know of a group who gives certificates of enlightenment. Maybe they use different criteria than me! I also know people in the TMO who I think are pretty darn enlightened. But of course they don't proclaim themselves as such. The whole thing is such a hodge podge that I simply ignore all the posturing and go by my own sense of a person. And actually, it doesn't matter to me whether or not they're enlightened. There are other qualities that I value more. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor From: Bhairitu noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] On 11/18/2014 09:17 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: From: Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. What organization does? Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet: -- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. (Please note that this actually *happened* with the TM movement.) -- Sounds good, but looking into my crystal ball that shows me the future, I can see that what you're trying to sell me isn't going to cost me only $75, but tens of thousands of dollars over 30 or 40 years, to pay for all the extra courses and 'add-ons' you'll try to sell me. What can you show me to convince me that this 'enlightenment' you're trying to sell me will actually occur, and that if it does, it's worth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 10:47 AM, fleetwood_macncheese wrote: Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. /You can pretty much forget getting any response about this from Barry. So, I'll tell you about the rumor According to the rumor, Barry himself made up the phrase about TM being the fastest way to enlightenment. It was Barry that made up the infamous posters that promised enlightenment in 5-7 years and he apparently posted them all over town. From what I've heard, Jerry was really pissed. That's just one of the reasons Barry got kicked out of the TMO - for making stuff up. Just like he makes up stuff about Rama levitating and stuff. Its a pattern./ ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. /* */ /* */Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path. /* */ /*
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 04:26 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: */It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM./* On 11/18/2014 10:54 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] wrote: What organization does? The Lenz cult sent out Barry to make claims, but they were more than just enlightenment claims - they made Barry swear to have seen Rama perform levitation tricks. The funny things is that Barry himslef admitted that Lenz had never been able to teach anyone else how to levitate - no cigar. /He didn't teach how to *do* these things, at least not in words, but there was an energetic component to these things that you could not help but experience yourself, subjectively./ - TurquoiseB You have to realize, Jim, that we are dialoging with a guy that doesn't even realize that he was practicing the /ME/ when he got together with Lenz and the other students in the desert to meditate. Go figure. /Some tantric traditions are very hip to the exchange of energies between individuals, and also hip to the fact that someone who knows how can artificially add to their own kundalini or life energy by getting people to focus on them, and then sorta sucking the energy from that focused attention. - /TurquoiseB
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
I don't know - When I was around the teachers, it was for a specific purpose - I was focused on the course, or the TMSP, or whatever it was. My path started to diverge from the orthodoxy of the seven states, a year or so after learning the TMSP, (1981-ish), being plunged into so many experiences of the finest relative, GC, (probably also referred to as the third eye opening, from descriptions I have read) while very much in waking state. I knew I hadn't been witnessing prior to all of this, and some of the stronger experiences incorporated witnessing too, so it was a very confusing time. Thankfully, I was also very busy with my life, and the intensity of the experiences became less important, in terms of family and career life. So, it has been 35 years, or so, since I considered what the speed of my path to enlightenment was. As long as it stayed interesting, I kept with it, though never losing sight of the everyday life, my values, and goals, as a reality check, vs. some teacher telling me something. That's the way it rolled for me, and continues to. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. Maybe you just met some more realistic teachers, I heard many say that TM isn't the only path but it's the fastest one And that the siddhi's were like getting into the fast lane and putting your foot down. And I would swear that I heard Maharishi say it all too but can't give any context like whether it was from an old tape or from the Marshy channel. But where do you suppose the teachers got it from if not from the reesh? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
What organization does? */Just to make a point about the kinds of bullshit humans are willing to accept, think about the TM sales pitch for enlightenment, compared to almost anything else being sold on this planet:/* */ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /* On 11/18/2014 11:52 AM, Bhairitu wrote: But now I have to ask: did you claim this in *your* intro lectures? Are you guilty as charged? I don't recall claiming this in mine. :-D The rumor is that's why he got kicked out of the TMO - for trying to act like a used car salesman, making stuff up, and charging $75 for a free TM introductory lecture. I wonder what he did with all the money? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
*/-- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. /* /* */ On 11/18/2014 11:54 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy: When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be fulfilled instantly Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know.. Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws of Nature so they may be different to what they are now More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel girlfriends? You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled So what will I desire then? Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job Huh? I don't even get free money? It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law But the Time Machine, I'll get that? I guarantee it (On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer. This guy had NO sense of humour) /And so you bought it, hook line and sinker, and stayed on at the TM Center for the next ten years. Go figure./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled Shame it didn't work out that way for MMY ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : -- You think WE'RE insane? Talk to the millions of people who bought this exact sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. On 11/18/2014 11:54 AM, salyavin808 wrote: Inspired. Here's a genuine conversation I had with a TM teacher at the academy: When you are enlightened you only have to desire something and it will be fulfilled instantly Really, what anything? I've got some pretty wild dreams you know.. Ah, but when you are enlightened your desires are fully in tune with the Laws of Nature so they may be different to what they are now More modest perhaps? Not so many lottery wins, time machines and supermodel girlfriends? You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled So what will I desire then? Rice and dhal. Provided you have a job Huh? I don't even get free money? It doesn't work with money, money isn't part of natural law But the Time Machine, I'll get that? I guarantee it (On my life that was a true conversation. Except for the rice and dhal answer. This guy had NO sense of humour) And so you bought it, hook line and sinker, and stayed on at the TM Center for the next ten years. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled Shame it didn't work out that way for MMY
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
*/ /* */-- So, that's your introductory lecture. Just sign here, pay us your $75, and we promise you that you will be fully enlightened in five years. /* But now I have to ask: did you claim this in *your* intro lectures? Are you guilty as charged? I don't recall claiming this in mine. :-D On 11/18/2014 12:13 PM, TurquoiseBee wrote: */The claims in intro lectures and printed brochures guaranteeing enlightenment in 5 to 8 years were from the 1967-1969 period. I didn't become a TM teacher until 1972./* This is false - there are no TMO posters or flyers /promising enlightenment in 5-8 years/ from 1967-1969, or any other time. If there were, we could read them on TranceNet or the TM-Free blog. This is just something Barry made up, like charging $75 for a free TM introductory lecture. Go figure. */I am not enough of a TM movement historian to document exactly *when* such claims began to disappear from TM lectures and promotional materials, but I would bet that it was coincidentally about five years after they first appeared. :-)/* http://minet.org/www.trancenet.net/secrets/ http://tmfree.blogspot.com/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
That is my recollection as well, as one who did give many lectures and teach courses. It just wasn't a talking point. Of course was going to produce dozens of teachers who claimed something, I forget what, a few days ago. I requested he produce one, which of course he couldn't. What the f, do you think the lurking reporters make of this guy? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
On 11/18/2014 5:59 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: You won't desire money or sex because your desires are already fulfilled Shame it didn't work out that way for MMY /Apparently MMY got everything he wanted or needed./
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Well, there is no one, not on this site, or probably anywhere in the world who thinks more about MMY, and the TMO, than our very own, Michael P. Jackson. Give up for the MJ, ya hear! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote : On 11/18/2014 7:17 AM, steve.sundur wrote: uh, you might relate more to a certificate of bs. might fit your posting style a little better! Or, a GED certificate. lovin' ya, though! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@... wrote : Well this is one I haven't heard before - certificates of enlightenment??? What bs. From: Share Long sharelong60@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor turq, if you are genuinely interested in such a path, the Oneness group headed by Bhagavan and Amma claim lots of enlightened followers, even give them certificates. This is the age in which we live, a path for every kind of seeker. From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Somebody's gotta be the drummer on this ship of 'oars.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Most Absurd Rumor
Same conclusion as everyone else's - Edg nailed it to the wall. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : That is my recollection as well, as one who did give many lectures and teach courses. It just wasn't a talking point. Of course was going to produce dozens of teachers who claimed something, I forget what, a few days ago. I requested he produce one, which of course he couldn't. What the f, do you think the lurking reporters make of this guy? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fleetwood_macncheese@... wrote : Barry is trolling. I have never heard anyone in the TM Org, including my teacher, say that TM was the fastest way to enlightenment. It is not on any tapes, or in any lectures, or books. I challenge Barry to find even one recorded instance of this phrase, used by anyone in the TMO. He is more interested in tooting his limp horn, than any sort of reality based conversation. As usual. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote : Actually, Barry, you've discounted Maharishi's progress on the spiritual path as someone who had achieved nothing. At the same time you've discussed your experiences practicing his technique, which happen to coincide with the signposts of higher consciousness outlined by M. I always had a feeling that it would emerge that you would in some way appoint yourself as being the One. Maybe consider changing your handle to Neo turq, or Neo Barry No need to be modest about it. Come out of the closet, boy. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : It's not so much a rumor, more of a sales pitch or claim, but I've always gotten a chuckle from TM is the fastest path to enlightenment on the planet, coming from an organization that in over 50 years has been unable to produce even a single person they can point at and say, This person is enlightened, and got that way as a result of practicing TM. Think of it...over 50 years with a single success story they're willing to present in public, and they still claim to be the fastest path.
