[FairfieldLife] Re: On belief
The myopic minds of our contemporary era. Relativism sets out to reduce every element of absoluteness to a relativity, while making a quite illogical exception in favor of this reduction itself. In effect, relativism consists in declaring it to be true that there is no such thing as truth, or in declaring it to be absolutely true that nothing but the relatively true exists. One might just as well say that language does not exist, or write that there is no such thing as writing. In short, every idea is reduced to a relativity of some sort, whether psychological, historical, or social. However, the assertion nullifies itself by the fact that it too presents itself as a psychological, historical, or social relativity. The assertion nullifies itself if it is true, and by nullifying itself logically proves thereby that it is false. Its initial absurdity lies in the implicit claim to be unique in escaping, as if by enchantment, from a relativity that is declared alone to be possible. Fritjof Schuon (from Logic and Transcendence)
[FairfieldLife] RE: On belief
[FairfieldLife] RE: On belief
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: On belief
Buck, you are typing in 4 pt font now? From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 8:09 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: On belief Dear Authfriend, Absolutely. Like the global climate change deniers, the gold standard people, an the meditation haters who can't allow themselves to believe the preponderance of what is in front of them. It then comes to seem like there is something wrong as a character flaw with their pre-set dispositions about what is 'the obvious' to most people. His is a great observation that you would expect a good philosopher to make. At a certain point you just can;t let some people hold everyone else up and the consensus of the group as hostage just has to go on without the idiot in the room. -Buck --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Those who believe that it is wrong, always and everywhere, to believe anything on insufficent evidence believe that very proposition on insufficient evidence, indeed on no evidence at all. --Bill Vallicella, Maverick Philosopher
[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/study-belief-in-an-angry-god-associated-with-variety-of-mental-illnesses/ http://tinyurl.com/d64krlk People who believe in an angry, punishing God are much more likely to suffer from a variety of mental illnesses, a scientific study published in the April edition of Journal of Religion Health finds. The study, conducted by Marymount Manhattan College Assistant Psychology Professor Nava Silton, used data from the 2010 Baylor Religion Survey of US Adults to examine the links between beliefs and anxiety disorders like social dysfunction, paranoia, obsession and compulsion. So this means the writers of the Tanakh and the versions of the Christian Old Testament were mentally ill?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/study-belief-in-an-angry-god-associated-with-variety-of-mental-illnesses/ http://tinyurl.com/d64krlk People who believe in an angry, punishing God are much more likely to suffer from a variety of mental illnesses, a scientific study published in the April edition of Journal of Religion Health finds. The study, conducted by Marymount Manhattan College Assistant Psychology Professor Nava Silton, used data from the 2010 Baylor Religion Survey of US Adults to examine the links between beliefs and anxiety disorders like social dysfunction, paranoia, obsession and compulsion. So this means the writers of the Tanakh and the versions of the Christian Old Testament were mentally ill? Well, Job certainly qualifies as depressed, and Abraham was ready to kill his son because he heard voices in his head. You do the math.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses
Why is this news to anyone? I mean, we're talking about people who not *only* believe that there's this Big Father Figure In The Sky who runs everything, but that he's *pissed off at them* because they don't live the way he wants them to. What an *incredibly* primitive and low-vibe belief system. If there is a God who is actually pissed off at His creations because they don't live the way he wanted them to, 1) it's His fuckin' fault for doing such a shitty job creating them, and 2) it's even more His fault for creating them and then never giving them a User's Manual for what he wanted them to do. He relied on dumbass humans to do that for Him, based on their own ignorance and prejudices. Believing in such a being just *has* to make one crazy! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/17/study-belief-in-an-angry-god-associated-with-variety-of-mental-illnesses/ http://tinyurl.com/d64krlk People who believe in an angry, punishing God are much more likely to suffer from a variety of mental illnesses, a scientific study published in the April edition of Journal of Religion Health finds. The study, conducted by Marymount Manhattan College Assistant Psychology Professor Nava Silton, used data from the 2010 Baylor Religion Survey of US Adults to examine the links between beliefs and anxiety disorders like social dysfunction, paranoia, obsession and compulsion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Spiritual belief as investment, or cheese
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Have you ever noticed how some people feel the need (nay, not just the need but the *compulsion*) to hang onto and defend beliefs they have invested in for years, or decades? It doesn't even seem to matter whether they *know* that the belief is on the slippery slide to being exposed as the idiocy it always was, they hang onto it anyway. Tonight I am relating this insight to a an old English music hall song, and to a quote attributed to some rich-ass guy whose name I can't remember: I made my money in the stock market by always selling too early. Interesting quote, this. The speaker (whoever it was) is *admitting* that he'd made a bad choice, and backed a losing proposition. Not necessarily. For example, let's take Google stock. I think everyone would agree it's a good, solid money-making company. Today's price for a share of Google is about $535.00. But in October of 2007 it was well over $700.00 and by November of 2008 had fallen below $300.00. But what if you had bought Google in August of 2004 when it was under $100? And then sold it in September of 2007 when it was $567.00? Sure, you would have sold it too early because it eventually went up to over $700.00 but you avoided the crash of the stock to when it went below $300.00 So I think it's a great quote you reproduced but I read it entirely differently than you did. And I think the axiom holds true: people make money in the stock market by NOT waiting until the stock eventually and inevitably goes into its bear phase and selling while there is still a profit to be made...even though it was too early because he didn't sell at the peak. How he'd made money was by realizing this *early*, and getting out while the getting was still good. Others hang onto the stock until it's worthless. I don't know if I'm really making a comment on anything or not here. I'm just rappin'. But it strikes me that -- in an olfactory sense if not a financial or spiritual sense -- hanging onto a belief or a belief system that is past its Use By date is lot like that old English music hall song I remembered today, which was about trying to pass off a gorgonzola cheese that is *way* past its Use By date. The Gorgonzola Cheese Song by Harry Champion, 1880 as performed by Robin williamson and his Merry Band (can't find a full-length audio version...sorry) Oh that gorgonzola cheese It wasn't over-healthy I suppose Our tom cat fell a corpse upon the mat When the niff went up his nose, Talk about the flavor Of the crackling on the pork Nothing could have been so strong As the beautiful effluvia that filled the house When the gorgonzola cheese went wrong.
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Louis McKenzie Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Thanks guys for your support. Everyone that has written I need it. I do chant Gayatri Mantra but I do not know Mahamritunjaya Mantra..If you know it please send it to me. If you know where I can hear it please send me to the link. THANKS ALL Your support is very helpful. I read your whole thing too and I really admire your integrity and determination. I hope you end up comfortably affluent without too much more stress and strain in getting there. Agreed totally. Thumbs up Louis ! And I think you gathered all that strenght from your character and your TM-Programme. Stay regular in your practise - no mumbo-jumbo-mantras necessary !
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I think the word you want is 'principle.' I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. I know that most here express sympathy for your situation, and I do as well, but this legitimate question remains unaddressed in your post. Please note that all of the following information in your post is about *you* and *your* family and *your* lifestyle: My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the three years from 2005 till 2008 I was able to send my step daughter to a Waldorf School and allow my wife the time to devote to our toddler. From 6 months pregnant to 3 years old my wife was able to dedicate herself to our children. In Brazil this is not valued, but for me it is very important. I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? I believe that within the next couple of days my funding will be finally in my account. I will put forth the first payment on our home and hopefully get my family back in order. And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. I'm sorry, but the almost complete self-absorbtion of your post leads me to believe they might have had some reason for doing so. Even if this is not true, the bottom line is that if you still owe them money, you still owe them money. They didn't *give* you the money, dude...they *invested* in you. If you don't repay their investment, you can write here all you want about how your vision helped you through the struggle, but that's like listening to Bill Gates spout bullshit about how he made billions by being so smart, when in fact he got rich by bailing on his debts.
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:28 AM I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. I'm sorry, but the almost complete self-absorbtion of your post leads me to believe they might have had some reason for doing so. Even if this is not true, the bottom line is that if you still owe them money, you still owe them money. They didn't *give* you the money, dude...they *invested* in you. If you don't repay their investment, you can write here all you want about how your vision helped you through the struggle, but that's like listening to Bill Gates spout bullshit about how he made billions by being so smart, when in fact he got rich by bailing on his debts. *
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one* of them ever felt bad about it. I think there is something *wrong* with this. I think that it's wrong when some meditator bums money to pay his rent because he's too evolved to work, and I think there is something wrong with it when someone meditator comes up with a get rich quick scheme and winds up defrauding a number of his meditating friends when the scheme goes belly up. Louis may NOT have had anything like this in mind; the whole problem may be that he wrote what he did without clarifying the details of these people who backed him who are now so unevolved as to want their money back. It could be a simple failure of language, and I may be up on my soapbox without cause. If so, I apologize in advance. But the whole schtick in this post was principle, and I for one couldn't help but notice that the one principle that kept getting ignored was *paying back* the people who invested money. If it had been me, I would have gone wherever I could have found work and paid back every penny. *Then* I would have started over on some new plan. That's my definition of commitment, belief, trust, and how to deal with adversity. You can call me non-spiritual for feeling this way if you want, but that's how I feel. Principle is not found in the glorious plans one talks about or pitches to others, but in what one DOES when those plans some- times don't work out. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:28 AM I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Thanks. I thought I made it clear but I guess I did not. My partners and the investors are different people. I have kept going the whole time to be able to pay the investors their money back. I have taken responsibility for their money even if they have not been willing to assist me at all. They invested because they thought I was working for my partners. They had a responsibility to cover the company and my personal expenses while I built the company. The Partners got friends to put up money and then they abandoned. They thought they had me in a position that they would own the major portion of the company even if they did not uphold their responsibilities. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 7:28 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I think the word you want is 'principle.' I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. I know that most here express sympathy for your situation, and I do as well, but this legitimate question remains unaddressed in your post. Please note that all of the following information in your post is about *you* and *your* family and *your* lifestyle: My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the three years from 2005 till 2008 I was able to send my step daughter to a Waldorf School and allow my wife the time to devote to our toddler. From 6 months pregnant to 3 years old my wife was able to dedicate herself to our children. In Brazil this is not valued, but for me it is very important. I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? I believe that within the next couple of days my funding will be finally in my account. I will put forth the first payment on our home and hopefully get my family back in order. And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. I'm sorry, but the almost complete self-absorbtion of your post leads me to believe they might have had some reason for doing so. Even if this is not true, the bottom line is that if you still owe them money, you still owe them money. They didn't *give* you the money, dude...they *invested* in you. If you don't repay their investment, you can write here all you want about how your vision helped you through the struggle, but that's like listening to Bill Gates spout bullshit about how he made billions by being so smart, when in fact he got rich by bailing on his debts. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Thanks. I thought I made it clear but I guess I did not. My partners and the investors are different people. I have kept going the whole time to be able to pay the investors their money back. I have taken responsibility for their money even if they have not been willing to assist me at all. They invested because they thought I was working for my partners. They had a responsibility to cover the company and my personal expenses while I built the company. The Partners got friends to put up money and then they abandoned. They thought they had me in a position that they would own the major portion of the company even if they did not uphold their responsibilities. So as I stated in the original post I had to agree to a settlement so the settlement is a payment not investment. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 7:28 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I think the word you want is 'principle.' I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. I know that most here express sympathy for your situation, and I do as well, but this legitimate question remains unaddressed in your post. Please note that all of the following information in your post is about *you* and *your* family and *your* lifestyle: My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the three years from 2005 till 2008 I was able to send my step daughter to a Waldorf School and allow my wife the time to devote to our toddler. From 6 months pregnant to 3 years old my wife was able to dedicate herself to our children. In Brazil this is not valued, but for me it is very important. I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? I believe that within the next couple of days my funding will be finally in my account. I will put forth the first payment on our home and hopefully get my family back in order. And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. I'm sorry, but the almost complete self-absorbtion of your post leads me to believe they might have had some reason for doing so. Even if this is not true, the bottom line is that if you still owe them money, you still owe them money. They didn't *give* you the money, dude...they *invested* in you. If you don't repay their investment, you can write here all you want about how your vision helped you through the struggle, but that's like listening to Bill Gates spout bullshit about how he made billions by being so smart, when in fact he got rich by bailing on his debts. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Pitty Party??? I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Anyway I dont know what you are talking about. I do know there is a difference between partnerships and investors. If one is a partner then that is much different than an investor. However I am not going into details about my business ventures. I only stated that I am learning what it takes to succeed. Even that you do not have to stop just because the money stops. Get rich quick scheme? dont understand. I thank you for getting one part of my post correct but I guess what you did not understand is a big part of the last three years has been keeping going so I did not lose the money and I would be able to pay the investors back. Partners who quit well maybe for me I have abandonment issues. Yet the investors I have taken the money as if it was my own. As in 100% responsibility for it. You assumed that I would rather buy a house instead of pay them. NoNot true. However I am taking care of my family as well this time. Since the investors could not send 50.00 for food for my family YES I AM PUTTING MY FAMILY FIRST --- On Mon, 8/25/08, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 8:34 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one* of them ever felt bad about it. I think there is something *wrong* with this. I think that it's wrong when some meditator bums money to pay his rent because he's too evolved to work, and I think there is something wrong with it when someone meditator comes up with a get rich quick scheme and winds up defrauding a number of his meditating friends when the scheme goes belly up. Louis may NOT have had anything like this in mind; the whole problem may be that he wrote what he did without clarifying the details of these people who backed him who are now so unevolved as to want their money back. It could be a simple failure of language, and I may be up on my soapbox without cause. If so, I apologize in advance. But the whole schtick in this post was principle, and I for one couldn't help but notice that the one principle that kept getting ignored was *paying back* the people who invested money. If it had been me, I would have gone wherever I could have found work and paid back every penny. *Then* I would have started over on some new plan. That's my definition of commitment, belief, trust, and how to deal with adversity. You can call me non-spiritual for feeling
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
My wife says the thing that has bothered her the most about me is my calmness. That I could pass through anything and just meditate and not have any negative emotion. JAI GURU DEV Once we were passing a moment of no money we went six weeks or two months with a rigged electric. Everyday day we chanted Gayatri mantra whole family even my son at the time age 18 months. Then WOW! we came into money again. We paid the light bill paid the school bill and went to the beach. GOD WORKS --- On Mon, 8/25/08, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 6:51 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Louis McKenzie Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Thanks guys for your support. Everyone that has written I need it. I do chant Gayatri Mantra but I do not know Mahamritunjaya Mantra..If you know it please send it to me. If you know where I can hear it please send me to the link. THANKS ALL Your support is very helpful. I read your whole thing too and I really admire your integrity and determination. I hope you end up comfortably affluent without too much more stress and strain in getting there. Agreed totally. Thumbs up Louis ! And I think you gathered all that strenght from your character and your TM-Programme. Stay regular in your practise - no mumbo-jumbo-mantras necessary ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. I thought I made it clear but I guess I did not. My partners and the investors are different people. I have kept going the whole time to be able to pay the investors their money back. I have taken responsibility for their money even if they have not been willing to assist me at all. Then you have my apologies for suggesting otherwise. As I explained in a subsequent post, I am a little sensitive on this subject. They invested because they thought I was working for my partners. They had a responsibility to cover the company and my personal expenses while I built the company. The Partners got friends to put up money and then they abandoned. They thought they had me in a position that they would own the major portion of the company even if they did not uphold their responsibilities. That is certainly possible, and I commisserate. I have seen this happen with vulture capitalists in the software business -- investing just enough money so that the business is designed to fail, at which point the vulture capitalists own all the intellectual property. Good luck in working things out, and I hope that you are able to make the business a success. My rant was aimed not at you personally but at people I've known who borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from friends to create a business, did so, and then spent the first five years' earnings from the business on new cars, houses, and an ostentatious lifestyle. The original friends had to finally sue them to make them pay back the money they could easily have paid back in the first year of successful oper- ation. Suffice it to say they are no longer friends. And all of these people meditated, and thought that they were better than those who didn't. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 7:28 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote: So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I think the word you want is 'principle.' I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. I know that most here express sympathy for your situation, and I do as well, but this legitimate question remains unaddressed in your post. Please note that all of the following information in your post is about *you* and *your* family and *your* lifestyle: My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the three years from 2005 till 2008 I was able to send my step daughter to a Waldorf School and allow my wife the time to devote to our toddler. From 6 months pregnant to 3 years old my wife was able to dedicate herself to our children. In Brazil this is not valued, but for me it is very important. I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? I believe that within the next couple of days my funding will be finally in my account. I will put forth the first payment on our home and hopefully get my family back in order. And again, your funding (theoretically, more investment in your business ideas) comes through, and the *first* you do with it is buy a house for you and your family? While the question of how much is left for the business idea or how much goes to repaying your original investors remains unaddressed? I lived in New Mexico for several years. Few people know that Microsoft started there, in Albuquerque. During my time there I ran into probably two dozen people who still spit every time they hear the name Bill Gates because he blew town and moved to Seattle owing them tens of thousands of dollars, and in a few cases hundreds of thousands of dollars. The richest man in the world has never paid those debts. He has never even *acknowledged* those debts. Bill Gates can give away billions of dollars to charity for the rest of his life, but not one of these people he left holding the bag are ever going to have an ounce of respect for him. All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. I'm sorry, but the almost complete self-absorbtion of your post leads me to believe they might have had some reason for doing so. Even if this is not true, the bottom
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
TurquoiseB wrote: All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. From 1988 to 1991, Rama's individual tuition rose from roughly one thousand to three thousand dollars per month. He told followers that since NPDS and ASI were actually furthering their careers, they should deduct the increasing payments from their taxes. This enabled Rama to dramatically increase his surprise gift reservoir - while bilking the IRS of millions, in a way that would be difficult to expose. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
TurquoiseB wrote: You can call me non-spiritual for feeling this way if you want, but that's how I feel. Principle is not found in the glorious plans one talks about or pitches to others, but in what one DOES when those plans some- times don't work out. So, you've still got some 'negative energy' to work out! In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/14.epil-3
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Well Forgiveness and mercy are always important. One thing I have learned is that the road to success is full of opportunity. Some opportunities are good and some not so good. One thing I have learned is that sometimes people dont really care about people. If I dont care about me maybe no one else will either. An investor is one thing a partner is someone with a particular responsibility that the person chooses to take on for a certain percentage of ownership. In this case just as that person is a partner so too am I . Why do you believe that one partner would be any more or less responsible for the results of things than the other. My so called partners in this particular venture thought I was weak and stupid. So they thought they could bully me into giving up my blank Instead they found something else. I dont know what I will do with them . The investors will get their money back, yet as I have never met them I will see what goes with so called partners. Investors= understanding Partners who quit or abandon = anger and uncertainty --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:36 AM TurquoiseB wrote: All I'm suggesting is that as things come around for you and you start to get back on your feet financially, you might want to put some thought into repaying the people who invested in you earlier, instead of referring to them as having backed out on you. From 1988 to 1991, Rama's individual tuition rose from roughly one thousand to three thousand dollars per month. He told followers that since NPDS and ASI were actually furthering their careers, they should deduct the increasing payments from their taxes. This enabled Rama to dramatically increase his surprise gift reservoir - while bilking the IRS of millions, in a way that would be difficult to expose. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
TurquoiseB wrote: My rant was aimed not at you personally but at people I've known who borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from friends to create a business, did so, and then spent the first five years' earnings from the business on new cars, houses, and an ostentatious lifestyle. Generally, this was to be paid in US $100 bills - higher vibratory energy, ex-members say. Gifts and costly special excursions are extra: In practice, members give Lenz almost all their money, according to published reports and ex-followers. They squeeze into shared, unfurnished apartments while he flies in a Lear jet between houses in Long Island, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
I don't know Rama. I once had a partner in another business whom when he was excited about things he went out and raised a whole lot of money. He did things and promised things that I would not do. Then when he got depressed he quit. Before he officially quit he told me that he would only quit when he was sure I could not continue. I was not sure what he meant by that. Then I started a venture that actually started making money. He called my new partner's wife a stupid bitch and told bank officers he was me. I began to understand him. I became weary of partners. When Partners lose they sometimes make excuses for the loss, by blaming others. So they bad mouth like gossipers. I like investors not so sure about partners. I have expectation with partners no expectation with investors. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:43 AM TurquoiseB wrote: You can call me non-spiritual for feeling this way if you want, but that's how I feel. Principle is not found in the glorious plans one talks about or pitches to others, but in what one DOES when those plans some- times don't work out. So, you've still got some 'negative energy' to work out! In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/14.epil-3 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
I am sorry you had this experience. I have seen worst probably called worst. Not a guru For me Sri Sri Ravi Shankar was/is my friend. If he was doing a project or was participating in a project to help other people I would do all I could to help him --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 11:00 AM TurquoiseB wrote: My rant was aimed not at you personally but at people I've known who borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from friends to create a business, did so, and then spent the first five years' earnings from the business on new cars, houses, and an ostentatious lifestyle. Generally, this was to be paid in US $100 bills - higher vibratory energy, ex-members say. Gifts and costly special excursions are extra: In practice, members give Lenz almost all their money, according to published reports and ex-followers. They squeeze into shared, unfurnished apartments while he flies in a Lear jet between houses in Long Island, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Generally, this was to be paid in US $100 bills - higher vibratory energy, ex-members say. Gifts and costly special excursions are extra: In practice, members give Lenz almost all their money, according to published reports and ex-followers. They squeeze into shared, unfurnished apartments while he flies in a Lear jet between houses in Long Island, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. I'm more impressed with the TMO's laundering skills. Turg, your former leader was either insane or the biggest asshole to ever occupy a human body. ...but mountain doesn't move! --- On Mon, 8/25/08, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 10:00 AM TurquoiseB wrote: My rant was aimed not at you personally but at people I've known who borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars from friends to create a business, did so, and then spent the first five years' earnings from the business on new cars, houses, and an ostentatious lifestyle. Generally, this was to be paid in US $100 bills - higher vibratory energy, ex-members say. Gifts and costly special excursions are extra: In practice, members give Lenz almost all their money, according to published reports and ex-followers. They squeeze into shared, unfurnished apartments while he flies in a Lear jet between houses in Long Island, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
There's a technique to lending money that works really well to increase the odds of getting repaid. When a person approaches you and asks to borrow, he is usually very upbeat, and cooperative with the terms, and the ' lender ' at that point has maximum leverage. As the potential lender, Ask the following questions: How much money do you need to borrow ? When do you need the money ? When can you repay ? After the borrower answers those three questions, the lender the directs the borrower to write a check to lender, for amount to be loaned, dated the agreed repayment date. Asking for the repayment check upfront as a necessary condition to the loan eliminates having to ' remind ' the borrower of his obligation, and prevents 'misunderstandings' and tremendously minimizes the hassle of lending. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one* of them ever felt bad about it. I think there is something *wrong* with this. I think that it's wrong when some meditator bums money to pay his rent because he's too evolved to work, and I think there is something wrong with it when someone meditator comes up with a get rich quick scheme and winds up defrauding a number of his meditating friends when the scheme goes belly up. Louis may NOT have had anything like this in mind; the whole problem may be that he wrote what he did without clarifying the details of these people who backed him who are now so unevolved as to want their money back. It could be a simple failure of language, and I may be up on my soapbox without cause. If so, I apologize in advance. But the whole schtick in this post was principle, and I for one couldn't help but notice that the one principle that kept getting ignored was *paying back* the people who invested money. If it had been me, I would have gone wherever I could have found work and paid back every penny. *Then* I would have started over on some new plan. That's my definition of commitment, belief, trust, and how to deal with adversity. You can call me non-spiritual for feeling this way if you want, but that's how I feel. Principle is not found in the glorious plans one talks about or pitches to others, but in what one DOES when those plans some- times don't work out. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 3:28 AM I'm sure it is. Did your original investors not getting their money back have any impact on *their* families or *their* lifestyles? And again, your funding (theoretically, more
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
this is a good technique as long as the person has the money by the time the check is deposited. Once I did that with a guy and he got money but did not pay. We called the bank verified the money was there and took it. He kept saying he did not have money. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:24 PM There's a technique to lending money that works really well to increase the odds of getting repaid. When a person approaches you and asks to borrow, he is usually very upbeat, and cooperative with the terms, and the ' lender ' at that point has maximum leverage. As the potential lender, Ask the following questions: How much money do you need to borrow ? When do you need the money ? When can you repay ? After the borrower answers those three questions, the lender the directs the borrower to write a check to lender, for amount to be loaned, dated the agreed repayment date. Asking for the repayment check upfront as a necessary condition to the loan eliminates having to ' remind ' the borrower of his obligation, and prevents 'misunderstandings' and tremendously minimizes the hassle of lending. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one* of them ever felt bad about it. I think there is something *wrong* with this. I think that it's wrong when some meditator bums money to pay his rent because he's too evolved to work, and I think there is something wrong with it when someone meditator comes up with a get rich quick scheme and winds up defrauding a number of his meditating friends when the scheme goes belly up. Louis may NOT have had anything like this in mind; the whole problem may be that he wrote what he did without clarifying the details of these people who backed him who are now so unevolved as to want their money back. It could be a simple failure of language, and I may be up on my soapbox without cause. If so, I apologize in advance. But the whole schtick in this post was principle, and I for one couldn't help but notice that the one principle that kept getting ignored was *paying back* the people who invested money. If it had been me, I would have gone wherever I could have found work and paid back every penny. *Then* I would have started over on some new plan. That's my definition of commitment, belief, trust, and how to deal with adversity. You can call me non-spiritual for feeling this way if you want, but that's how I feel. Principle
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Generally, this was to be paid in US $100 bills - higher vibratory energy, ex-members say. Gifts and costly special excursions are extra: In practice, members give Lenz almost all their money, according to published reports and ex-followers. They squeeze into shared, unfurnished apartments while he flies in a Lear jet between houses in Long Island, Santa Fe, and Los Angeles. I'm more impressed with the TMO's laundering skills. Turg, your former leader was either insane or the biggest asshole to ever occupy a human body. Very possibly both.
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Well, Louis, when he said he didn't have the money, perhaps he was thinking that his family, their shelter, and their food needs competed with the repayment. Did he offer a substantial partial repayment ? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is a good technique as long as the person has the money by the time the check is deposited. Once I did that with a guy and he got money but did not pay. We called the bank verified the money was there and took it. He kept saying he did not have money. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:24 PM There's a technique to lending money that works really well to increase the odds of getting repaid. When a person approaches you and asks to borrow, he is usually very upbeat, and cooperative with the terms, and the ' lender ' at that point has maximum leverage. As the potential lender, Ask the following questions: How much money do you need to borrow ? When do you need the money ? When can you repay ? After the borrower answers those three questions, the lender the directs the borrower to write a check to lender, for amount to be loaned, dated the agreed repayment date. Asking for the repayment check upfront as a necessary condition to the loan eliminates having to ' remind ' the borrower of his obligation, and prevents 'misunderstandings' and tremendously minimizes the hassle of lending. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one* of them ever felt bad about it. I think there is something *wrong* with this. I think that it's wrong when some meditator bums money to pay his rent because he's too evolved to work, and I think there is something wrong with it when someone meditator comes up with a get rich quick scheme and winds up defrauding a number of his meditating friends when the scheme goes belly up. Louis may NOT have had anything like this in mind; the whole problem may be that he wrote what he did without clarifying the details of these people who backed him who are now so unevolved as to want their money back. It could be a simple failure of language, and I may be up on my soapbox without cause. If so, I apologize in advance. But the whole schtick in this post was principle, and I for one couldn't help but notice that the one principle that kept
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
The guy was a sleeze bag. I dont know what you are thinking. but who said family come before being able to pay back. That is in your head not mine. Timing is my choice as it should be because if I had been of the mind that someone said and just went and got a job and worked to pay them off I would be looking good and taking care of myself. In truth when people say that what they really do is declare bankruptcy. Because in a normal job in a normal life the things that come are more important than the past and the mind does a great job of justification. Better to stick it out and make it work if you really intend to pay. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:42 PM Well, Louis, when he said he didn't have the money, perhaps he was thinking that his family, their shelter, and their food needs competed with the repayment. Did he offer a substantial partial repayment ? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is a good technique as long as the person has the money by the time the check is deposited. Once I did that with a guy and he got money but did not pay. We called the bank verified the money was there and took it. He kept saying he did not have money. --- On Mon, 8/25/08, mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mainstream20016 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 25, 2008, 12:24 PM There's a technique to lending money that works really well to increase the odds of getting repaid. When a person approaches you and asks to borrow, he is usually very upbeat, and cooperative with the terms, and the ' lender ' at that point has maximum leverage. As the potential lender, Ask the following questions: How much money do you need to borrow ? When do you need the money ? When can you repay ? After the borrower answers those three questions, the lender the directs the borrower to write a check to lender, for amount to be loaned, dated the agreed repayment date. Asking for the repayment check upfront as a necessary condition to the loan eliminates having to ' remind ' the borrower of his obligation, and prevents 'misunderstandings' and tremendously minimizes the hassle of lending. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: In the 1950's, a few people in India helped Maharishi a lot when he was struggling financially. Later on when Maharishi copyrighted the TM and started getting millions of dollars, he ignored them completely.!! He never even acknowledged those who helped him go to the west and establish himself financialy secure. Both Deepak Chopra's father and Chopra helped Maharishi a lot and yet in the end he kicked Chopra out.!! Perhaps both Bill Gates and Maharishi have something in common. Exactly. I know that this thread was supposed to be a kind of pity party for Louis and all he's been through, and that we were supposed to express our compassion and our admiration of him sticking to his principles throughout it all. Ok, I *do* feel compassion for his hard times. And on some level I feel some admiration for him sticking to his principles. I just couldn't help noticing that those principles don't seem to involve repaying the people who loaned him money or invested in his busi- ness ideas in the first place. The principles are more about sticking to the purity of his vision. Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't respect that as much as TMers and other spiritual people seem to. And the reason is that over the years I've loaned money to a *lot* of people, *none* of whom ever repaid a dime of it. None of them ever *thought* of repaying a dime of it. They used it to pay for their courses, or their rent, or their business schemes that never worked out, or in one case, their women. And they thought of all of these things they spent the money on as an integral part of their spiritual sadhana, and thus somehow off the books. The general attitude was that if it helps them pursue enlightenment (or what- ever their *personal* goals were), these are not debts that need to be respected but money flowing in from the universe -- an expression of support of nature. Excuse me, but the money flowing in was an expres- sion of a friend trying to help them, a friend who did not have that much money in the first place, and had to do without a few things himself f*in order to* help them out. Not a penny ever got repaid. And not *one
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Louis, I am really wishing you the best. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I passed the afternoon with my son and his mother, my wife. Recently we had a big challenge in our life. I don't know if I can say that I have passed this challenge or failed it. I know that all I could do is stay on purpose and keep my love and commitment to my wife and my family above all else. Living in Brazil as an American I do not have a lot of resources. Even I have a lot of limitation. For example because I do not have a permanent visa I can not just go out and get a job. As someone who has accepted money for investment I have certain responsibilities and limitations corporate as well as ethical, therefore for me to take a job in a country that my working without the appropriate documentation is in direct violation of the laws of the country and can lead to immediate deportation, I have had to depend on business partners for everyday existence. When all of my so called partners were no longer sending money I was able to keep going for two more years, on my own creativity. Finally one day the guy from the housing court was at the door to put me and my family out of our rented apartment. WOW! even though we knew the day would possibly arrive, we were shocked. Especially since funding that had been promised for one year and held up in the current banking collapse was about to be released. Anyway having to leave our apartment on an unplanned day, we were subject and dependent on my wife's family. In these moments families panic and being caught off guard I did not know how to respond. Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Yet I kept my head the best I could and when I found myself and my son in the home of my mother in law, and I was being asked to leave, I felt a fear and definite hurt. Yet I packed up my things and left. I had enough money to get a hotel room. I went to cheap hotels but they were the kind of places that would cost more than I was saving. So I found a moderate hotel. I could have gone to Rio and stayed with friends for no immediate cost, but I would not have been able to see my son every weekend or keep my presence with my family. I stayed within 10 minutes by car. Have you ever thought you were passing through something that was totally insane but knew you had to pass through it? That was what this has been like. My son was born shortly after my dad died. Even as my dad was dying I invited him to come to Brazil and fill the vacancy that was now available as my mate in Brazil was pregnant. He died in New Jersey, when I returned to Brazil and we went to Ob-Gyn the Doctor did an ultra sound and the baby waved and kicked open his legs to show he was a boy. So I have always had the belief that this being may well be my dad. I could never leave my dad no matter what. So I stayed. The US Laws are stupid when it comes to immigration, illegal aliens come into the US everyday but for me to bring my family it is a great process. So not being able to do so coming back to the US was not an option for me. Getting kicked out of Brazil for deliberately breaking the law (Taking a job without documentation) would be financially irresponsible. So I have done my best with the circumstances. In order to resolve my life I have even had to accept ridiculous changes in the amounts of funding I was to receive. So since I was asked to leave my mother in law's home I have spent more money than I thought I could. I believe I am at the end of this process, because I believe it has been a test. Having kept my eye on the result I have wanted I was able to buy an exceptional home . Set up various investment ventures in Real Estate such as the possibility of building homes in a city that is like the one that was mentioned in the post on earlier on the American Way. Toyota is even going to build a factory here. So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the three years from 2005 till 2008 I was able to send my step daughter to a Waldorf School and allow my wife the time to devote to our toddler. From 6 months pregnant to 3 years old my wife was able to dedicate herself to our children. In Brazil this is not valued, but for me it is very important. I believe that within the next couple of days my funding will be finally in my account. I will put forth the first payment on our home and hopefully get my family
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Louis, May abundant good fortune come to you and yours. Remain as ethical as possible - you will get strength to endure by doing so. Your thoughts are alway welcome here. A certain goodness and sincerity permeates everything you write about, and contributes to the a more positive tone to FFL. - Mainstream --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Louis, I am really wishing you the best. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote: Today I passed the afternoon with my son and his mother, my wife. Recently we had a big challenge in our life. I don't know if I can say that I have passed this challenge or failed it. I know that all I could do is stay on purpose and keep my love and commitment to my wife and my family above all else. Living in Brazil as an American I do not have a lot of resources. Even I have a lot of limitation. For example because I do not have a permanent visa I can not just go out and get a job. As someone who has accepted money for investment I have certain responsibilities and limitations corporate as well as ethical, therefore for me to take a job in a country that my working without the appropriate documentation is in direct violation of the laws of the country and can lead to immediate deportation, I have had to depend on business partners for everyday existence. When all of my so called partners were no longer sending money I was able to keep going for two more years, on my own creativity. Finally one day the guy from the housing court was at the door to put me and my family out of our rented apartment. WOW! even though we knew the day would possibly arrive, we were shocked. Especially since funding that had been promised for one year and held up in the current banking collapse was about to be released. Anyway having to leave our apartment on an unplanned day, we were subject and dependent on my wife's family. In these moments families panic and being caught off guard I did not know how to respond. Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Yet I kept my head the best I could and when I found myself and my son in the home of my mother in law, and I was being asked to leave, I felt a fear and definite hurt. Yet I packed up my things and left. I had enough money to get a hotel room. I went to cheap hotels but they were the kind of places that would cost more than I was saving. So I found a moderate hotel. I could have gone to Rio and stayed with friends for no immediate cost, but I would not have been able to see my son every weekend or keep my presence with my family. I stayed within 10 minutes by car. Have you ever thought you were passing through something that was totally insane but knew you had to pass through it? That was what this has been like. My son was born shortly after my dad died. Even as my dad was dying I invited him to come to Brazil and fill the vacancy that was now available as my mate in Brazil was pregnant. He died in New Jersey, when I returned to Brazil and we went to Ob-Gyn the Doctor did an ultra sound and the baby waved and kicked open his legs to show he was a boy. So I have always had the belief that this being may well be my dad. I could never leave my dad no matter what. So I stayed. The US Laws are stupid when it comes to immigration, illegal aliens come into the US everyday but for me to bring my family it is a great process. So not being able to do so coming back to the US was not an option for me. Getting kicked out of Brazil for deliberately breaking the law (Taking a job without documentation) would be financially irresponsible. So I have done my best with the circumstances. In order to resolve my life I have even had to accept ridiculous changes in the amounts of funding I was to receive. So since I was asked to leave my mother in law's home I have spent more money than I thought I could. I believe I am at the end of this process, because I believe it has been a test. Having kept my eye on the result I have wanted I was able to buy an exceptional home . Set up various investment ventures in Real Estate such as the possibility of building homes in a city that is like the one that was mentioned in the post on earlier on the American Way. Toyota is even going to build a factory here. So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away but I did not. In the
[FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
.You need to chant the Mahamritunjaya mantra at least 2 rounds per day, while giving full attention to the fulfillment of your desires. Or, the Gayatri mantra, or both; total, about 1 hour . These practices will give you a 25% boost in the alleviation of your suffering: (yin and yang - getting rid of what you don't what and obtaining what you do want); all in the context of Dharmic behavior. Don't listen to that utterly ridiculous discourse by Willytex on OM. We're talking about your LIFE here, not some nitpicking academic wrangling. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I passed the afternoon with my son and his mother, my wife. Recently we had a big challenge in our life. I don't know if I can say that I have passed this challenge or failed it. I know that all I could do is stay on purpose and keep my love and commitment to my wife and my family above all else. Living in Brazil as an American I do not have a lot of resources. Even I have a lot of limitation. For example because I do not have a permanent visa I can not just go out and get a job. As someone who has accepted money for investment I have certain responsibilities and limitations corporate as well as ethical, therefore for me to take a job in a country that my working without the appropriate documentation is in direct violation of the laws of the country and can lead to immediate deportation, I have had to depend on business partners for everyday existence. When all of my so called partners were no longer sending money I was able to keep going for two more years, on my own creativity. Finally one day the guy from the housing court was at the door to put me and my family out of our rented apartment. WOW! even though we knew the day would possibly arrive, we were shocked. Especially since funding that had been promised for one year and held up in the current banking collapse was about to be released. Anyway having to leave our apartment on an unplanned day, we were subject and dependent on my wife's family. In these moments families panic and being caught off guard I did not know how to respond. Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Yet I kept my head the best I could and when I found myself and my son in the home of my mother in law, and I was being asked to leave, I felt a fear and definite hurt. Yet I packed up my things and left. I had enough money to get a hotel room. I went to cheap hotels but they were the kind of places that would cost more than I was saving. So I found a moderate hotel. I could have gone to Rio and stayed with friends for no immediate cost, but I would not have been able to see my son every weekend or keep my presence with my family. I stayed within 10 minutes by car. Have you ever thought you were passing through something that was totally insane but knew you had to pass through it? That was what this has been like. My son was born shortly after my dad died. Even as my dad was dying I invited him to come to Brazil and fill the vacancy that was now available as my mate in Brazil was pregnant. He died in New Jersey, when I returned to Brazil and we went to Ob-Gyn the Doctor did an ultra sound and the baby waved and kicked open his legs to show he was a boy. So I have always had the belief that this being may well be my dad. I could never leave my dad no matter what. So I stayed. The US Laws are stupid when it comes to immigration, illegal aliens come into the US everyday but for me to bring my family it is a great process. So not being able to do so coming back to the US was not an option for me. Getting kicked out of Brazil for deliberately breaking the law (Taking a job without documentation) would be financially irresponsible. So I have done my best with the circumstances. In order to resolve my life I have even had to accept ridiculous changes in the amounts of funding I was to receive. So since I was asked to leave my mother in law's home I have spent more money than I thought I could. I believe I am at the end of this process, because I believe it has been a test. Having kept my eye on the result I have wanted I was able to buy an exceptional home . Set up various investment ventures in Real Estate such as the possibility of building homes in a city that is like the one that was mentioned in the post on earlier on the American Way. Toyota is even going to build a factory here. So I am writing all of this to say. Even though I may question if perhaps I am a little nuts. I have really gotten to see what happens when one puts principal ahead of security. I had received money to make an investment 3 years ago. The investors backed out they only want to know when I will give their money back or have money for them. My original partners abandoned me 3 years ago. I could have chosen to run away
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
Thanks guys for your support. Everyone that has written I need it. I do chant Gayatri Mantra but I do not know Mahamritunjaya Mantra..If you know it please send it to me. If you know where I can hear it please send me to the link. THANKS ALL Your support is very helpful. --- On Sun, 8/24/08, yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 10:57 PM .You need to chant the Mahamritunjaya mantra at least 2 rounds per day, while giving full attention to the fulfillment of your desires. Or, the Gayatri mantra, or both; total, about 1 hour . These practices will give you a 25% boost in the alleviation of your suffering: (yin and yang - getting rid of what you don't what and obtaining what you do want); all in the context of Dharmic behavior. Don't listen to that utterly ridiculous discourse by Willytex on OM. We're talking about your LIFE here, not some nitpicking academic wrangling. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today I passed the afternoon with my son and his mother, my wife. Recently we had a big challenge in our life. I don't know if I can say that I have passed this challenge or failed it. I know that all I could do is stay on purpose and keep my love and commitment to my wife and my family above all else. Living in Brazil as an American I do not have a lot of resources. Even I have a lot of limitation. For example because I do not have a permanent visa I can not just go out and get a job. As someone who has accepted money for investment I have certain responsibilities and limitations corporate as well as ethical, therefore for me to take a job in a country that my working without the appropriate documentation is in direct violation of the laws of the country and can lead to immediate deportation, I have had to depend on business partners for everyday existence. When all of my so called partners were no longer sending money I was able to keep going for two more years, on my own creativity. Finally one day the guy from the housing court was at the door to put me and my family out of our rented apartment. WOW! even though we knew the day would possibly arrive, we were shocked. Especially since funding that had been promised for one year and held up in the current banking collapse was about to be released. Anyway having to leave our apartment on an unplanned day, we were subject and dependent on my wife's family. In these moments families panic and being caught off guard I did not know how to respond. Needless to say I was flabbergasted. Yet I kept my head the best I could and when I found myself and my son in the home of my mother in law, and I was being asked to leave, I felt a fear and definite hurt. Yet I packed up my things and left. I had enough money to get a hotel room. I went to cheap hotels but they were the kind of places that would cost more than I was saving. So I found a moderate hotel. I could have gone to Rio and stayed with friends for no immediate cost, but I would not have been able to see my son every weekend or keep my presence with my family. I stayed within 10 minutes by car. Have you ever thought you were passing through something that was totally insane but knew you had to pass through it? That was what this has been like. My son was born shortly after my dad died. Even as my dad was dying I invited him to come to Brazil and fill the vacancy that was now available as my mate in Brazil was pregnant. He died in New Jersey, when I returned to Brazil and we went to Ob-Gyn the Doctor did an ultra sound and the baby waved and kicked open his legs to show he was a boy. So I have always had the belief that this being may well be my dad. I could never leave my dad no matter what. So I stayed. The US Laws are stupid when it comes to immigration, illegal aliens come into the US everyday but for me to bring my family it is a great process. So not being able to do so coming back to the US was not an option for me. Getting kicked out of Brazil for deliberately breaking the law (Taking a job without documentation) would be financially irresponsible. So I have done my best with the circumstances. In order to resolve my life I have even had to accept ridiculous changes in the amounts of funding I was to receive. So since I was asked to leave my mother in law's home I have spent more money than I thought I could. I believe I am at the end of this process, because I believe it has been a test. Having kept my eye on the result I have wanted I was able to buy an exceptional home . Set up various investment ventures in Real Estate such as the possibility of building homes in a city that is like the one that was mentioned in the post
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Louis McKenzie Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:40 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: commitment belief trust and adveristy Thanks guys for your support. Everyone that has written I need it. I do chant Gayatri Mantra but I do not know Mahamritunjaya Mantra..If you know it please send it to me. If you know where I can hear it please send me to the link. THANKS ALL Your support is very helpful. I read your whole thing too and I really admire your integrity and determination. I hope you end up comfortably affluent without too much more stress and strain in getting there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Religious Belief and Societal Health.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---: from Skeptic, Vol 12, #3, 2006. New Study Reveals that Religion Does not Lead to a Healthier Society http://tinyurl.com/dycnt Fig. 12 in the tinyurl article: There is a positive correlation between religiosity and homicide rate. [the figures show a positive correlation between homocide rates and ...any of the following: a. percentage who absolutely believe in God. Interesting study. But correlation does not imply or establish causation. Example: the percentage of believers is lower in Netherlands, GB, Sweden, Germany, France, Japan, and Norway, (having a lower homicide rate). b. Percentage who attend religious services at least several times a month; c. percentage who take the Bible literally. Fig 3: graphs 15-19 years old Mothers with abortions. Religious societies tend to have higher rates of abortion than secular ones. Fig. 5 and 6. Teenage Mothers: Secular societies generally have fewer teenage mothers than religious societies. The Skeptic writer Matthew Provonsha states, This study is complicated enough that I do not think that we can draw definitive negative conclusions about religion. But we can at least conclude, contrary to popular belief in this country, that it is not a given taht religious societies are better, healthier, or more moral. We can be clear about from this study is that highly religious societies can be dysfunctional, whereas by comparison secular societies in which evolution is largely accepted display real social cohension and society well-being. As is always the case in science, more data and additional research will help clarify our conclusions. Yes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
