[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-20 Thread authfriend
Barry's already made two WHOPPING bloopers today, but I guess he figures he 
needs to round things off with a third. And what a third...
 

 When Barry's panties get in a twist, it has the effect of shutting down what 
little is left of his brains.
 

 Of all the mind-numbingly stupid posts he's made--and I have 18 years' worth 
from which to choose--this one tops them all.
 

 (snip)
 Barry wrote:
 

  Anyone daring to use the term anti-Semitic has already

  withdrawn from the company of thinking individuals on
 planet Earth.
 
  You're implying that one group of people's fantasies about
 how the universe works are more important than, more true
 than, and and more inviolable than, anyone else's.

 Me, I class ALL religious beliefs as fantasies. I think that
 qualifies me as an egalitarian, unlike some who get their
 panties in a twist when their particular fantasies are
 challenged. :-)



[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-20 Thread authfriend
Here's one you might find of interest, Seraphita, albeit not an easy read: 
Julian of Norwich, Theologian, by Denys Turner. (Julian is best known for the 
famous quote All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing 
shall be well. But Turner has some startling insights into her theology that 
go way beyond the traditional take on her work.)
 

 Seraphita wrote:

For those interested in the Christian faith can I recommend two books by Alan 
Watts. He made a name for himself with his books on Zen and eastern religions. 
Those books are all readable and rewarding - if approached with caution - but 
I've found his earlier works on Christianity both better written and more 
suggestive. 
 

 Myth and Ritual In Christianity (only available second-hand) approached 
Christianity by ignoring completely its truth or falsity and treating the 
sacraments purely as myth. Behold the Spirit is one of the best books that 
Watts wrote (it's my personal favourite), a wonderfully perceptive account of 
the mystical strain in Christianity.
 

 Pity he was a (genuine) sex addict and a serious alcoholic. The two vices are 
linked as he said he only felt sexy when he was drunk. And he knew even less 
about meditation than I do! Still, his faults were his problem; we can enjoy 
his insights. 
 
 




[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-20 Thread s3raphita
Re A much more interesting read is Watts' The Supreme Identity (1950) which is 
largely based upon the insights of Rene Guenon.:
 Yes, I've been intending to read that. As you have given it the thumbs up, if 
it turns up in a second-hand bookshop I'll definitely grab it. It's out of 
print of course.
 (Beyond Theology was another Watts' book in this field but I found it a 
disappointment. Psychotherapy East and West is another title some people rave 
about but I found it pedestrian.) 
 

 On a completely different topic: Alan Watts' The Joyous Cosmology (ghastly 
title!) is the best description of the LSD experience. It's even better than 
Huxley's classic Doors of Perception. Philosophy as poetry - and short and 
sweet. Check it out.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 A much more interesting read is Watts' The Supreme Identity (1950) which is 
largely based upon the insights of Rene Guenon.

 

---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote:

 For those interested in the Christian faith can I recommend two books by Alan 
Watts. He made a name for himself with his books on Zen and eastern religions. 
Those books are all readable and rewarding - if approached with caution - but 
I've found his earlier works on Christianity both better written and more 
suggestive. 
 

 Myth and Ritual In Christianity (only available second-hand) approached 
Christianity by ignoring completely its truth or falsity and treating the 
sacraments purely as myth. Behold the Spirit is one of the best books that 
Watts wrote (it's my personal favourite), a wonderfully perceptive account of 
the mystical strain in Christianity.
 

 Pity he was a (genuine) sex addict and a serious alcoholic. The two vices are 
linked as he said he only felt sexy when he was drunk. And he knew even less 
about meditation than I do! Still, his faults were his problem; we can enjoy 
his insights. 
 

---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 Barry's already made two WHOPPING bloopers today, but I guess he figures he 
needs to round things off with a third. And what a third...
 

 When Barry's panties get in a twist, it has the effect of shutting down what 
little is left of his brains.
 

 Of all the mind-numbingly stupid posts he's made--and I have 18 years' worth 
from which to choose--this one tops them all.
 

 (snip)
 Barry wrote:
 
 
  Anyone daring to use the term anti-Semitic has already

  withdrawn from the company of thinking individuals on
 planet Earth.
 
  You're implying that one group of people's fantasies about
 how the universe works are more important than, more true
 than, and and more inviolable than, anyone else's.

 Me, I class ALL religious beliefs as fantasies. I think that
 qualifies me as an egalitarian, unlike some who get their
 panties in a twist when their particular fantasies are
 challenged. :-)


 

 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
We do not know exactly what plant, of all the plants available to them, 
that Adam and Eve ate of, while in the Biblical Garden of Eden 
(Genesis 3:6).


It has been suggested that it was a fruit that Eve partook of, perhaps 
an apple, which certainly shows a certain amount of Euoro-centrism. 
However that may be, if it was a tree, it may have been a fig tree, 
similar to the Bodhi Tree of Indian Buddhist legend - the sacred ficus 
religiosus.


The sacred tree in Micronesian mythology is the banana tree, whose 
origin is tied up in the idea of manna and the myth of the Tree of 
Plenty and the mythology of the the dying and rising tree spirit.


Why Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of this one particular tree is 
somewhat of a metaphysical mystery, not fully explained. The question 
is, why would God enslave Adam and Eve to work on a fruit farm in the 
first place?


Go figure.

On 10/17/2013 10:20 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:


*Thanks, this is great. For the moment, one question: The expulsion 
from the Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not 
vengeance so that humanity would not 'become immortal in sin.' What 
does immortal in sin mean, and how would that happen?*



*emptybill wrote:*

Read this and then see if you have questions.


http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/ancestral_versus_original_sin







Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread Share Long
My questions to emptybill are: what does Cyril of Alexandria mean by the sin of 
one? Also, if all sin is illness, does that mean that the orthodox fathers 
believe that all illness is indicative of sin?





On Friday, October 18, 2013 9:23 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com 
wrote:
 
  
We do not know exactly what plant, of all the plants available to them, that 
Adam and Eve ate of, while in the Biblical Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:6).

It has been suggested that it was a fruit that Eve partook of,
  perhaps an apple, which certainly shows a certain amount of
  Euoro-centrism. However that may be, if it was a tree, it may have
  been a fig tree, similar to the Bodhi Tree of Indian Buddhist
  legend - the sacred ficus religiosus. 

The sacred tree in Micronesian mythology is the banana tree, whose
  origin is tied up in the idea of manna and the myth of the Tree
  of Plenty and the mythology of the the dying and rising tree
  spirit.

Why Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of this one particular tree
  is somewhat of a metaphysical mystery, not fully explained. The
  question is, why would God enslave Adam and Eve to work on a fruit
  farm in the first place? 

Go figure.

On 10/17/2013 10:20 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:

  
Thanks, this is great. For the moment, one question: The expulsion from the 
Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not vengeance so that 
humanity would not 'become immortal in sin.' What does immortal in sin 
mean, and how would that happen?


emptybill wrote:

Read this and then see if you have questions.


http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/ancestral_versus_original_sin






Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread Mike Dixon
Because Ceasar Chavez hadn't come along yet, unless he was the snake in the 
tree.


From: Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

  
We do not know exactly what plant, of all the plants available to them, that 
Adam and Eve ate of, while in the Biblical Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:6).It 
has been suggested that it was a fruit that Eve partook of, perhaps an apple, 
which certainly shows a certain amount of Euoro-centrism. However that may be, 
if it was a tree, it may have been a fig tree, similar to the Bodhi Tree of 
Indian Buddhist legend - the sacred ficus religiosus. The sacred tree in 
Micronesian mythology is the banana tree, whose origin is tied up in the idea 
of manna and the myth of the Tree of Plenty and the mythology of the the 
dying and rising tree spirit.Why Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of this one 
particular tree is somewhat of a metaphysical mystery, not fully explained. The 
question is, why would God enslave Adam and Eve to work on a fruit farm in the 
first place? Go figure.On 10/17/2013 10:20 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
  
Thanks, this is great. For the moment, one question: The expulsion from the 
Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not vengeance so that 
humanity would not 'become immortal in sin.' What does immortal in sin 
mean, and how would that happen?


emptybill wrote: 
Read this and then see if you have questions.


http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/ancestral_versus_original_sin





RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread authfriend
Share wrote:
 
  My questions to emptybill are: what does Cyril of Alexandria
  mean by the sin of one?
 

 He means Eve's disobedience.
 


 (I'm sure emptybill will correct me if I get anything wrong.)
 

  Also, if all sin is illness, does that mean that the orthodox fathers
  believe that all illness is indicative of sin?

 

 Did you read this part?
 

 ...Sickness, suffering and death come and when they do God's grace is able to 
transform them into life-bearing trials, but are they God's will? Does God 
punish us when the mood strikes, when our behavior displeases Him or for no 
reason at all?

 

 The answer in the essay to these rhetorical questions is clearly no.
 

 






[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread authfriend
Seraphita wrote:

 
  Who is on those pictures, Daddy? 
  He replied, The Virgin Mary and Jesus. 
  She picked up the icon, kissed it and hugged it to her chest exclaiming, 
  Oh, daddy, they love you so much!
 Then, he told me, We understood. It's all about affection. 
 
  If it's really all about affection who needed Christianity? People have 
  been affectionate to their friends and family since time immemorial. And
  one can't be *affectionate* to one's enemies!
 

 Odd that you didn't quote the very next sentence:
 

 Love, in fact, is the heart and soul of the theology of the early Church 
Fathers and of the Orthodox Church (emphasis added).

 

 That would be God's infinite love and compassion, not ordinary human affection.
 

 The writer is making a distinction between (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity and 
Western Christianity and how and why they diverged after the first roughly four 
centuries following Christ's death (and presumably his resurrection). You'll 
need to read the rest of the essay to understand what that distinction is all 
about.
 

 Your other points are something of a straw man where Eastern Christianity is 
concerned, as you'll find if you read the rest of the essay. No version of 
Christianity can be really consonant with TM metaphysics, but it appears to me 
that there are some elements of Eastern Christian theology that are more 
resonant with TM than those of Western theology. (emptybill, 
corrections/reflections solicited.)
 

  Here's the simple alternative. If you look at the basic Advaita-Vedanta
  outlook isn't it saying that there is in reality only One Self. It is only 
  in
  appearance that there are many of us. If therefore any one individual
  sins we've all sinned as there is no difference between us *in reality*.
  One man slips up - Adam - and we all take a pratfall. No man is an
  island. 
 
  But if you recognise that there is just the Self as the one actor how can
  any one man be guilty? - that is precisely to imagine oneself apart from
  the whole. The forgiveness of sins balances Original Sin.
 





Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread Share Long
But Judy, earlier in the same paragraph with the Cyril quote Rev Hughes states: 
the Eastern Fathers assigned full responsibility 
for the sin in the Garden to Adam and Eve alone. 

So how is it a sin of one, I still wonder.





On Friday, October 18, 2013 12:21 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com 
authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
  
Share wrote:


 My questions to emptybill are: what does Cyril of Alexandria
 mean by the sin of one?

He means Eve's disobedience.

(I'm sure emptybill will correct me if I get anything wrong.)

 Also, if all sin is illness, does that mean that the orthodox fathers
 believe that all illness is indicative of sin?


Did you read this part?

...Sickness, suffering and death come and when they do God's grace is able to 
transform them into life-bearing trials, but are they God's will? Does God 
punish us when the mood strikes, when our behavior displeases Him or for no 
reason at all?


The answer in the essay to these rhetorical questions is clearly no.




RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread sharelong60
But again to Judy: Death is the natural result of turning aside from God, says 
Rev Hughes in the last sentence of the 5th paragraph under Approach of the 
Orthodox Fathers. From this I would extrapolate that illness, according to the 
Orthodox Fathers is also a natural result of turning aside from God.

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Share wrote:
 
  My questions to emptybill are: what does Cyril of Alexandria
  mean by the sin of one?
 
 


 He means Eve's disobedience.
 


 (I'm sure emptybill will correct me if I get anything wrong.)
 
 
  Also, if all sin is illness, does that mean that the orthodox fathers
  believe that all illness is indicative of sin?
 
 

 Did you read this part?
 

 ...Sickness, suffering and death come and when they do God's grace is able to 
transform them into life-bearing trials, but are they God's will? Does God 
punish us when the mood strikes, when our behavior displeases Him or for no 
reason at all?

 

 The answer in the essay to these rhetorical questions is clearly no.
 

 


 



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread Richard J. Williams
The question is, why would God enslave Adam and Eve to work on a fruit 
farm in the first place?


On 10/18/2013 10:48 AM, Mike Dixon wrote:
Because Ceasar Chavez hadn't come along yet, unless he was the snake 
in the tree.


*From:* Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 7:23 AM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique
We do not know exactly what plant, of all the plants available to 
them, that Adam and Eve ate of, while in the Biblical Garden of Eden 
(Genesis 3:6).It has been suggested that it was a fruit that Eve 
partook of, perhaps an apple, which certainly shows a certain amount 
of Euoro-centrism. However that may be, if it was a tree, it may have 
been a fig tree, similar to the Bodhi Tree of Indian Buddhist legend 
- the sacred ficus religiosus. The sacred tree in Micronesian 
mythology is the banana tree, whose origin is tied up in the idea of 
manna and the myth of the Tree of Plenty and the mythology of the 
the dying and rising tree spirit.Why Adam and Eve were forbidden to 
eat of this one particular tree is somewhat of a metaphysical mystery, 
not fully explained. The question is, why would God enslave Adam and 
Eve to work on a fruit farm in the first place? Go figure.On 
10/17/2013 10:20 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com 
mailto:authfri...@yahoo.com wrote:
*Thanks, this is great. For the moment, one question: The expulsion 
from the Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not 
vengeance so that humanity would not 'become immortal in sin.' What 
does immortal in sin mean, and how would that happen?*


*emptybill wrote:*
Read this and then see if you have questions.

http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/ancestral_versus_original_sin







RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread authfriend
Share wrote:
  
  But again to Judy: Death is the natural result of turning aside from God, 
  says Rev Hughes
  in the last sentence of the 5th paragraph under Approach of the Orthodox 
  Fathers. From
  this I would extrapolate that illness, according to the Orthodox Fathers is 
  also a natural
  result of turning aside from God.
 

 Well, you just go right ahead and extrapolate your little brains out, OK?
 

Share wrote:
 
  My questions to emptybill are: what does Cyril of Alexandria
  mean by the sin of one?
 
 


 He means Eve's disobedience.
 


 (I'm sure emptybill will correct me if I get anything wrong.)
 
 
  Also, if all sin is illness, does that mean that the orthodox fathers
  believe that all illness is indicative of sin?
 
 

 Did you read this part?
 

 ...Sickness, suffering and death come and when they do God's grace is able to 
transform them into life-bearing trials, but are they God's will? Does God 
punish us when the mood strikes, when our behavior displeases Him or for no 
reason at all?

 

 The answer in the essay to these rhetorical questions is clearly no.
 

 


 





[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-18 Thread authfriend
One can see how others might see this or that without necessarily going 
along with it oneself, especially when it comes to what Christ realized and 
taught, given that we have no historical record of same. Plus which, any 
exposition of nondualism in plain speech is automatically highly suspect, 
words being, you know, dualistic. And when you find yourself talking about 
Advaita positions, things get really dicey.
 

 Oh, and the doctrine of ex nihilo is a whole lot older than modern 
Christianity.
 
Seraphita wrote:

 Re The writer is making a distinction between (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity 
and Western Christianity and how and why they diverged after the first roughly 
four centuries following Christ's death (and presumably his Resurrection).:
 

 Yep - and I'm making a distinction between what Christ himself realised and 
taught and what the Church (east and west) later came to teach. 
 

 Jesus *obviously* saw the truth of the Advaita position - I and My Father Are 
One -   and once you see that you also see that Original Sin and the 
Forgiveness of Sins are two sides of the same coin - that there is One Self 
(Christ Consciousness) which each of us is at root. 
 

 The reason modern Christians can't acknowledge that blindingly obvious fact is 
that they have to maintain the fiction that each soul was created ex nihilo. 
Only what isn't created is eternal. And what is eternal is the One Self. Read 
the Gospel accounts and you have to really work overtime not to see what Jesus 
was pointing to! The theological argy-bargy in the linked article isn't a 
problem IF you see that it is expressing in mythological terms what the 
non-dualists set out in plain speech.
 

---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 Seraphita wrote:

 
  Who is on those pictures, Daddy? 
  He replied, The Virgin Mary and Jesus. 
  She picked up the icon, kissed it and hugged it to her chest exclaiming, 
  Oh, daddy, they love you so much!
 Then, he told me, We understood. It's all about affection. 
 
  If it's really all about affection who needed Christianity? People have 
  been affectionate to their friends and family since time immemorial. And
  one can't be *affectionate* to one's enemies!
 
 

 Odd that you didn't quote the very next sentence:
 

 Love, in fact, is the heart and soul of the theology of the early Church 
Fathers and of the Orthodox Church (emphasis added).

 

 That would be God's infinite love and compassion, not ordinary human affection.
 

 The writer is making a distinction between (Eastern) Orthodox Christianity and 
Western Christianity and how and why they diverged after the first roughly four 
centuries following Christ's death (and presumably his resurrection). You'll 
need to read the rest of the essay to understand what that distinction is all 
about.
 

 Your other points are something of a straw man where Eastern Christianity is 
concerned, as you'll find if you read the rest of the essay. No version of 
Christianity can be really consonant with TM metaphysics, but it appears to me 
that there are some elements of Eastern Christian theology that are more 
resonant with TM than those of Western theology. (emptybill, 
corrections/reflections solicited.)
 

  Here's the simple alternative. If you look at the basic Advaita-Vedanta
  outlook isn't it saying that there is in reality only One Self. It is only 
  in
  appearance that there are many of us. If therefore any one individual
  sins we've all sinned as there is no difference between us *in reality*.
  One man slips up - Adam - and we all take a pratfall. No man is an
  island. 
 
  But if you recognise that there is just the Self as the one actor how can
  any one man be guilty? - that is precisely to imagine oneself apart from
  the whole. The forgiveness of sins balances Original Sin.
 
 


 




RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-17 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Dateline:
 Pope is 
 “Filled with light.”
 That is good and really mystical. 
 Pope Frances experienced the field of “glow”,
 of that Unified Field in nature.
 Maharishi Mahesh Yogi talked [taught] of that
 as he came out of India to the West.
 -Buck 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 can you ask them to compare and contrast the two and get back to us?
 
 On Mon, 10/14/13, awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... 
awoelflebater@... mailto:awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 Subject: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 14, 2013, 3:36 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Centering
 Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty
 much cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.
 Many of my closest six or
 seven friends moved to Colorado and spent vast amounts of
 time around Father Thomas Keating in the Benedictine
 monastery in Snowmass. It is an extraordinary place and
 Thomas Keating is equally as special. These were my friends
 'recovering' from their time around WTS and the
 trauma they experienced in the last few months in Victoria
 especially.
 These are also people who, I
 believe, reject TM absolutely and yet adopted and practiced
 and embraced centering prayer. They would probably have an
 interesting perspective on the differences or similarities
 of the two practices since most of them did TM for many
 years and more currently have been practicing centering
 prayer for probably even more years (25 or
 more). 



[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-17 Thread authfriend
empty, are you saying Pennington was a TM teacher? That was my understanding, 
but I didn't know whether it was correct, so I didn't mention it in my 
comments. How about Keating?
 
emptybill wrote:
 
 I had a long time friend who was a TM teacher in Thailand, Malaysia and 
Singapore in the mid-70's who talked with Basil Pennington on ATR.
 

 




[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-17 Thread authfriend
Well, at least he uses Christian sacred words rather than the Sanskrit 
mantras the devil prefers...
 

 On a different topic, I'd be interested to know more about what you said 
regarding Augustine and real Christianity, if you have the time and 
inclination. Where did Augustine go wrong?
 

 emptybill wrote:

Judy, 
 
I remember asking the same question to my friend as he repeated the 
conversation. He said I guess he was a TM teacher because you had to be one to 
be there on course. 

Mm ... a TM teacher.
If Basil is worse than a fallen Catholic then he must be a devil worshiper!
 




[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-17 Thread authfriend
Thanks, this is great. For the moment, one question: The expulsion from the 
Garden and from the Tree of Life was an act of love and not vengeance so that 
humanity would not 'become immortal in sin.' What does immortal in sin mean, 
and how would that happen?
 

 emptybill wrote:
 Read this and then see if you have questions.
 

 
http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/ancestral_versus_original_sin

 





[FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread TurquoiseB
BTW, Buck, before you go off on one of your Fascist Gotta
silence these neganauts on FFL rants, I am *not* saying
that the world would not benefit if more people learned to
meditate. I'm saying that I don't think that TM has a snowball's
chance in hell of being the form of meditation they learn.

It just drags along with it too much baggage at this point,
caused by the crass commercialism, the fake (or, at best,
self-serving and exaggerated) research that's been used to
sell it, the haughty and superior attitude of those teaching
it, the incredibly bad taste left in everyone's mouth by it
being so hideously overpriced for so long, the add-on-
baggage of Ayurveda, S-V, yagyas, pundits and the (in the
eyes of most people in the world) laughable sidhis.

Then there's the all-important hipness factor. TM is about
as hip as 45rpm records. Ask around at any gathering of people
interested in meditation, and see what they think of TM and
TMers. Price too high? You couldn't *pay* many people enough
to entice them to learn TM, it has such a reputation for being
low-rent and uncool.

What is needed is a non-religious (TM is anything but), secular
practice with no Hindu trappings and no allegiances to any
long-standing Eastern religious culture, taught for free or for
a maximum of $25, in one weekend, and with no attempt to
rope people who learn it into any kind of organization or
into taking any kind of advanced add-on courses.

That can -- and will -- never happen with TM. In the spiritual
marketplace of the future, it's deader than Maharishi.

Just my opinion...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:
 
  There is the problem again. Better get on the stick and
  price TM so regular people can afford to try it. TM is
  going to get left deep in the dust if they don't get going
  really soon...

 Doug, with all due respect, that happened (TM being
 left in the dust) decades ago. The *only* people on
 earth who don't understand this are the TM dinosaurs
 who are still so convinced of their own superiority that
 they still believe they're part of something viable.





Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Jackson
I absolutely agree with what you are saying. In addition to the factors you 
mention, there is also the track record the Movement has created both amongst 
the long time practitioners of TM and the general public. 

One learns, if one does TM for any length of time and associates with the 
people who run the Movement and the Movement facilities, one will get screwed - 
the leaders and managers of the Movement just do not behave very well at all, 
certainly not like people who have mastered friendliness, happiness and 
compassion. 

The Movement has also demonstrated many, many times its unwillingness to work 
on common projects such as ayurveda with others who are not part of the 
Movement unless everyone gets on board with TM and the Movement gets to run the 
agenda - in other words for this example, the other folks like Vasant Lads 
people would cease to practice ayurveda and begin to promote Marshy Ayurveda. 
But I suppose that is included in their general arrogance and uncaring attitude 
toward what anyone else needs or wants.

And lastly the Movement has demonstrated time and time again it cannot be 
trusted and its methods of attempting to work with people and organizations 
outside the Movement typically runs along the lines of the other organization 
or people put up all the money, take all the financial risk, the Movement gets 
at least half the profits and all the praise and even then it is typical of the 
Movement to bail out on a project when its incomplete, leaving everyone else 
holding the bag. 

For these and the reasons Barry stated the TM deal will never catch on in 
public awareness ever again no matter how many celebrities David Lynch parades 
across the television screen stumping for TM.

Those like David who wish with all their hearts the general public would 
embrace TM and esp. TMSP should take the advice I gave a long time ago - break 
completely away form the Movement , distance yourself from Marshy and start 
fresh. Teach people without all the baggage - that MIGHT work, maybe. 

On Mon, 10/14/13, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 14, 2013, 10:26 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 BTW, Buck, before you go off on one of your Fascist
 Gotta
 silence these neganauts on FFL rants, I am *not*
 saying
 that the world would not benefit if more people learned to
 meditate. I'm saying that I don't think that TM has
 a snowball's
 chance in hell of being the form of meditation they learn.
 
 It just drags along with it too much baggage at
 this point,
 caused by the crass commercialism, the fake (or, at best,
 self-serving and exaggerated) research
 that's been used to
 sell it, the haughty and superior attitude of those
 teaching
 it, the incredibly bad taste left in everyone's mouth by
 it
 being so hideously overpriced for so long, the
 add-on-
 baggage of Ayurveda, S-V, yagyas, pundits and the (in
 the 
 eyes of most people in the world) laughable
 sidhis.
 
 Then there's the all-important hipness
 factor. TM is about
 as hip as 45rpm records. Ask around at any gathering of
 people 
 interested in meditation, and see what they think of TM and
 TMers. Price too high? You couldn't *pay* many people
 enough
 to entice them to learn TM, it has such a reputation for
 being
 low-rent and uncool. 
 
 What is needed is a non-religious (TM is anything but),
 secular
 practice with no Hindu trappings and no allegiances to any 
 long-standing Eastern religious culture, taught for free or
 for
 a maximum of $25, in one weekend, and with no attempt to
 rope people who learn it into any kind of
 organization or
 into taking any kind of advanced add-on courses.
 
 
 That can -- and will -- never happen with TM. In the
 spiritual
 marketplace of the future, it's deader than Maharishi. 
 
 Just my opinion...
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:
  
   There is the problem again. Better get on the
 stick and
   price TM so regular people can afford to try it.
 TM is
   going to get left deep in the dust if they
 don't get going
   really soon...
  
  Doug, with all due respect, that happened (TM being
  left in the dust) decades ago. The *only* people on
  earth who don't understand this are the TM
 dinosaurs
  who are still so convinced of their own superiority
 that
  they still believe they're part of something
 viable.
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique [1 Attachment]

2013-10-14 Thread anartaxius
Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much cover 
the TM and mindfulness marketplace.


RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 “Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of the Christian 
contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio 
Divina, (praying the scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross 
and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method of prayer [from 
Transcendental Meditation] in the 1970’s by three Trappist monks - Fr. William 
Meninger, Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the Trappist St. 
Joseph’s Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.”
 

 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much cover 
the TM and mindfulness marketplace.




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:

 Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of
 the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers
 and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the
 scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross
 and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method
 of prayer [from Transcendental Meditation] in the
 1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William Meninger,
 Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the
 Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.

  http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html
http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html

I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip
Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above
comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
that it has nothing to do with TM.

Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting
it as fact.

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
wrote:

  Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty
much cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.




Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread Richard Williams
So, it's all about Willytex. Go figure.


On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:46 AM, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote:

 **


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
 
  Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of
  the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers
  and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the
  scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross
  and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method
  of prayer *[from Transcendental Meditation]* in the
  1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William Meninger,
  Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the
  Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.
 
  http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html

 I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip
 Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
 misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
 she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above
 comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
 who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
 that it has nothing to do with TM.

 Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting
 it as fact.

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.comwrote:
 
  Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much
 cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.
 

  



RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Jackson
can you ask them to compare and contrast the two and get back to us?

On Mon, 10/14/13, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 14, 2013, 3:36 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
     
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Centering
 Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty
 much cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.
 Many of my closest six or
 seven friends moved to Colorado and spent vast amounts of
 time around Father Thomas Keating in the Benedictine
 monastery in Snowmass. It is an extraordinary place and
 Thomas Keating is equally as special. These were my friends
 'recovering' from their time around WTS and the
 trauma they experienced in the last few months in Victoria
 especially.
 These are also people who, I
 believe, reject TM absolutely and yet adopted and practiced
 and embraced centering prayer. They would probably have an
 interesting perspective on the differences or similarities
 of the two practices since most of them did TM for many
 years and more currently have been practicing centering
 prayer for probably even more years (25 or
 more).
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Jackson
and WTS refers to?

On Mon, 10/14/13, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 14, 2013, 3:36 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
     
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Centering
 Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty
 much cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.
 Many of my closest six or
 seven friends moved to Colorado and spent vast amounts of
 time around Father Thomas Keating in the Benedictine
 monastery in Snowmass. It is an extraordinary place and
 Thomas Keating is equally as special. These were my friends
 'recovering' from their time around WTS and the
 trauma they experienced in the last few months in Victoria
 especially.
 These are also people who, I
 believe, reject TM absolutely and yet adopted and practiced
 and embraced centering prayer. They would probably have an
 interesting perspective on the differences or similarities
 of the two practices since most of them did TM for many
 years and more currently have been practicing centering
 prayer for probably even more years (25 or
 more).
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Dear Turq; to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer was 
drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be more honest and 
accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation in the 1970's by the 
three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
 

 I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM] off 
for their own purposes.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
 
 Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of 
 the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers 
  and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the 
  scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross 
  and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method 
  of prayer [from Transcendental Meditation] in the 
  1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William Meninger, 
  Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the 
  Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.
 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html  

 I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip
Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above 
comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
that it has nothing to do with TM. 

Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting
it as fact.  

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: 
 
 Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much 
 cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.

 



RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Jackson
You mean the biter was bit? The pot got called black by the kettle? The crooks 
were hoist on their own petard? Caught in a cleft stick of their own cutting? 
The rip off artists got ripped off? Karma came home to roost?

On Mon, 10/14/13, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 14, 2013, 4:24 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
    Dear
 Turq;  to give credit where credit is due, actually
 Centering Prayer
 was drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics
 but to be
 more honest and accurate was distilled from Transcendental
 Meditation
 in the 1970's by the three monks and their brethren at
 St. Joseph's
 Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
 
 I
 know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental
 Meditation [TM]
 off for their own purposes.
 -Buck
 in the Dome 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 --- In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote:
  
  Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices
 of 
  the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the
 Fathers 
   and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the
 
   scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the
 Cross 
   and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a
 simple method 
   of prayer [from Transcendental Meditation] in
 the 
   1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William
 Meninger, 
   Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the 
   Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer,
 Massachusetts.
   
 
   http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
  
 
 
  I think we all know that The Corrector
 will probably rip
 Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
 misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
 she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets
 above 
 comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
 who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
 that it has nothing to do with TM. 
 
 Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and
 presenting
 it as fact.  
 
   ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
  
 
   Centering Prayer description and instructions. This
 seems to pretty much cover the TM and mindfulness
 marketplace.
 
 
 
  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Dear Turq; to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer was 
drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be more honest and 
accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation in the 1970's by the 
three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
 

 I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM] off 
for their own purposes.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
 
 Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of 
 the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers 
  and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the 
  scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross 
  and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method 
  of prayer [from Transcendental Meditation] in the 
  1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William Meninger, 
  Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the 
  Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.
 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html  

 I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip
Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above 
comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
that it has nothing to do with TM. 

Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting
it as fact.  

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: 
 
 Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much 
 cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.

 



RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Dear Turq; to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer was 
drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be more honest and 
accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation in the 1970's by the 
three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
 

 I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM] off 
for their own purposes.
 -Buck in the Dome
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
 
 Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of 
 the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers 
  and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the 
  scriptures),The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross 
  and St. Teresa of Avila. It was distilled into a simple method 
  of prayer [from Transcendental Meditation] in the 
  1970's by three Trappist monks - Fr. William Meninger, 
  Fr. Basil Pennington and Abbot Thomas Keating at the 
  Trappist St. Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, Massachusetts.
 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html 
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/Page_2.html  

 I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip
Buck a new asshole for running this tired and intentionally
misleading routine again, but just on the off chance that
she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above 
comes only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone
who reads the rest of the descriptions on that page knows
that it has nothing to do with TM. 

Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting
it as fact.  

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: 
 
 Centering Prayer description and instructions. This seems to pretty much 
 cover the TM and mindfulness marketplace.

 



RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread judy stein
Buck wrote:

 Dear Turq;  to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer
 was drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be
 more honest and accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation
 in the 1970's by the three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's
 Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
 
 I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM]
 off for their own purposes.

 -Buck in the Dome 
 
I'll confirm that the assumption among TMers that these three clerics' version
of Centering Prayer was based on TM was current back in the late 1970s. It
isn't something Buck made up. Photocopies of the chapter entitled TM and
Centering Prayer from Pennington's 1977 book Daily We Touch Him were
routinely passed around among TMers.

Moreover, if Barry had any curiosity at all, or any desire to get his facts 
straight,
he would have checked out the PDF that Xeno uploaded. It would be extremely
difficult for anyone familiar with TM instruction to read those two pages on 
how 
to do Centering Prayer and claim that it had nothing to do with TM. It's
obvious that the clerics did indeed rip off the instructions for TM, just as 
Buck
says above.

The mechanics of the techniques are virtually identical. The only two 
significant
differences are (1) that TM uses a teacher-assigned Sanskrit mantra, whereas
Centering Prayer uses a self-chosen sacred word from the Christian tradition;
and (2) that the explicit context of Centering Prayer is Christian, whereas 
TM's is
either secular, religious/nondenominational, or Hindu, depending on one's
approach.

--The Corrector



Barry wrote:
(snip) 
  I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip Buck a new asshole 
  for
  running this tired and intentionally misleading routine again, but just on 
  the off
  chance that she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above comes
  only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone who reads the rest of the
  descriptions on that page knows that it has nothing to do with TM. 
   
  Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting it as fact.  



RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
  
 And that's the truth.
 -Buck
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Buck wrote:
 
  Dear Turq; to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer
  was drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be
  more honest and accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation
  in the 1970's by the three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's
  Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
  
  I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM]
  off for their own purposes.
 
  -Buck in the Dome 
 
 I'll confirm that the assumption among TMers that these three clerics' version
 of Centering Prayer was based on TM was current back in the late 1970s. It
 isn't something Buck made up. Photocopies of the chapter entitled TM and
 Centering Prayer from Pennington's 1977 book Daily We Touch Him were
 routinely passed around among TMers.
 
 Moreover, if Barry had any curiosity at all, or any desire to get his facts 
straight,
 he would have checked out the PDF that Xeno uploaded. It would be extremely
 difficult for anyone familiar with TM instruction to read those two pages on 
how 
 to do Centering Prayer and claim that it had nothing to do with TM. It's
 obvious that the clerics did indeed rip off the instructions for TM, just as 
Buck
 says above.
 
 The mechanics of the techniques are virtually identical. The only two 
significant
 differences are (1) that TM uses a teacher-assigned Sanskrit mantra, whereas
 Centering Prayer uses a self-chosen sacred word from the Christian tradition;
 and (2) that the explicit context of Centering Prayer is Christian, whereas 
TM's is
 either secular, religious/nondenominational, or Hindu, depending on one's
 approach.
 
 --The Corrector
 
 
 
 Barry wrote:
 (snip) 
   I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip Buck a new 
   asshole for
   running this tired and intentionally misleading routine again, but just on 
   the off
   chance that she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above comes
   only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone who reads the rest of the
   descriptions on that page knows that it has nothing to do with TM. 
   
   Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting it as fact.  



RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread authfriend
Minor correction. I wrote:
 

  Photocopies of the chapter entitled TM and

  Centering Prayer from Pennington's 1977 book Daily We Touch Him were
 routinely passed around among TMers.


 The chapter title was TM and Christian Prayer, but it was about Centering 
Prayer specifically.
 

 BTW, Centering Prayer, even as taught by Catholic monks and priests, tends to 
be viewed with alarm by more doctrinaire Catholics because of its close 
association with Eastern meditation techniques and especially with TM.
 




RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-14 Thread dhamiltony2k5
  
 And that's the truth.
 -Buck
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Buck wrote:
 
  Dear Turq; to give credit where credit is due, actually Centering Prayer
  was drawn from the range of Christian and Eastern mystics but to be
  more honest and accurate was distilled from Transcendental Meditation
  in the 1970's by the three monks and their brethren at St. Joseph's
  Abbey in Spencer Massachusetts.
  
  I know, I was there and watched them rip Transcendental Meditation [TM]
  off for their own purposes.
 
  -Buck in the Dome 
 
 I'll confirm that the assumption among TMers that these three clerics' version
 of Centering Prayer was based on TM was current back in the late 1970s. It
 isn't something Buck made up. Photocopies of the chapter entitled TM and
 Centering Prayer from Pennington's 1977 book Daily We Touch Him were
 routinely passed around among TMers.
 
 Moreover, if Barry had any curiosity at all, or any desire to get his facts 
straight,
 he would have checked out the PDF that Xeno uploaded. It would be extremely
 difficult for anyone familiar with TM instruction to read those two pages on 
how 
 to do Centering Prayer and claim that it had nothing to do with TM. It's
 obvious that the clerics did indeed rip off the instructions for TM, just as 
Buck
 says above.
 
 The mechanics of the techniques are virtually identical. The only two 
significant
 differences are (1) that TM uses a teacher-assigned Sanskrit mantra, whereas
 Centering Prayer uses a self-chosen sacred word from the Christian tradition;
 and (2) that the explicit context of Centering Prayer is Christian, whereas 
TM's is
 either secular, religious/nondenominational, or Hindu, depending on one's
 approach.
 
 --The Corrector
 
 
 
 Barry wrote:
 (snip) 
   I think we all know that The Corrector will probably rip Buck a new 
   asshole for
   running this tired and intentionally misleading routine again, but just on 
   the off
   chance that she doesn't, I will. The bolded section in brackets above comes
   only from Buck's fevered imagination. Anyone who reads the rest of the
   descriptions on that page knows that it has nothing to do with TM. 
   
   Buck's as bad as Willytex at making shit up and presenting it as fact.  



[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread srijau
I do as I was instructed so Im not trying and neither is the The Holy Father 

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... wrote:
 
 what a friend we have in Francis, uses the most well researched, 
 the effective technique, not for me to spell out better to just 
 connect dots please and than-you

 If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices 
TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 






[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread authfriend
Oh, snap. Barry isn't feeling so hot this morning. 
 
Barry wrote:
 (snip)
 If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices 
TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 






Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread Bhairitu

If you are implying that effortless meditation is unique to TM, it isn't.

On 10/13/2013 07:32 AM, sri...@ymail.com wrote:


I do as I was instructed so Im not trying and neither is the The Holy 
Father




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, srijau@... wrote:


 what a friend we have in Francis, uses the most well researched,
 the effective technique, not for me to spell out better to just
 connect dots please and than-you

If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices
TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html







RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread dhamiltony2k5

 Do a Google search for “Contemplative Outreach”.   
 

 The odds are much greater the modern Sancta Sedes practices “Centering Prayer” 
as widely taught by his church. It is now a huge meditation movement that 
dwarfs the other trademarked version we are familiar with in the marketplace of 
meditations. 
 http://www.centeringprayer.com/ http://www.centeringprayer.com/ 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 If you are implying that effortless meditation is unique to TM, it isn't.
 
 On 10/13/2013 07:32 AM, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote:
 
   I do as I was instructed so Im not trying and neither is the The Holy Father 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
srijau@... wrote:
 
  what a friend we have in Francis, uses the most well researched, 
  the effective technique, not for me to spell out better to just 
  connect dots please and than-you
 
 If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices 
 TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:
 
 http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Heck, everybody is offering instruction in effortless “Centering Prayer” 
meditation; protestants, catholics, jews, even methodists;
 http://www.centenary-ws.org/SF http://www.centenary-ws.org/SF 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 
 Do a Google search for “Contemplative Outreach”.   
 

 The odds are much greater the modern Sancta Sedes practices “Centering Prayer” 
as widely taught by his church. It is now a huge meditation movement that 
dwarfs the other trademarked version we are familiar with in the marketplace of 
meditations. 
 http://www.centeringprayer.com/ http://www.centeringprayer.com/ 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 If you are implying that effortless meditation is unique to TM, it isn't.
 
 On 10/13/2013 07:32 AM, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote:
 
   I do as I was instructed so Im not trying and neither is the The Holy Father 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
srijau@... wrote:
 
  what a friend we have in Francis, uses the most well researched, 
  the effective technique, not for me to spell out better to just 
  connect dots please and than-you
 
 If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices 
 TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:
 
 http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Pope Francis technique

2013-10-13 Thread dhamiltony2k5
 Seems to be a lot of group Meissner Effect [ME] group meditations most 
everywhere now when you start looking. Even in Pittsburgh!
 http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/ http://www.pghcenteringprayer.org/ 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

  
 Our organization is nondenominational and all are welcome to attend our prayer 
groups.
 Our mission is to help churches and parishes, schools and places of prayer 
establish a Centering Prayer Program
 

---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

  Heck, everybody is offering instruction in effortless “Centering Prayer” 
meditation; protestants, catholics, jews, even methodists;
 http://www.centenary-ws.org/SF http://www.centenary-ws.org/SF 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 
 Do a Google search for “Contemplative Outreach”.   
 

 The odds are much greater the modern Sancta Sedes practices “Centering Prayer” 
as widely taught by his church. It is now a huge meditation movement that 
dwarfs the other trademarked version we are familiar with in the marketplace of 
meditations. 
 http://www.centeringprayer.com/ http://www.centeringprayer.com/ 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 If you are implying that effortless meditation is unique to TM, it isn't.
 
 On 10/13/2013 07:32 AM, srijau@... mailto:srijau@... wrote:
 
   I do as I was instructed so Im not trying and neither is the The Holy Father 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
srijau@... wrote:
 
  what a friend we have in Francis, uses the most well researched, 
  the effective technique, not for me to spell out better to just 
  connect dots please and than-you
 
 If you're trying to imply that Pope Francis practices 
 TM, I for one suspect you may be correct:
 
 http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html 
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2013/10/11/21190631.html