Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
One of the movies that has come out of late in my neck of the woods which I've mentioned before is The Last Mountain - it's the story of the coal miners and mountaintop mining in West VA. It really is a compelling little documentary that raises and presents the big picture and small potatoes and tells a pretty great story...and it's got a Kennedy in it :) Don't know if it's available yet on DVD. This picture of Don Blankenship - recently retired CEO of Massey Energy - is priceless! --- On Thu, 7/28/11, wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com wrote: From: wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 1:19 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. I think in our society, just about the only way to change people's minds and/or to mobilize them to make demands of corporate America is through a movie, or several, that get the information out in a simple, vivid, unambiguous form. Most people don't want to think too much or deeply about anything complicated. So the movies would need to be compelling, clear, somewhat simple, and appeal to a variety of issues that affect us. People would have to get that without change, they are hurt financially, and that with change, they will benefit financially. Along with the movie some simple, inexpensive ways to put pressure on corporations has to be available. But I hold little hope that anything would work. If climate change and health insurance are examples of our behavior on issues, despite how important they are, then everyone will just follow along in their same thought patterns. What I see is that the only reason most people are interested in driving a smaller, gas efficient car now is because the cost of gas bothers them. And most don't want national health insurance because, God forbid, they might end up paying a few pennies for some disabled or unemployed person's health care, too. We here in the US don't do much to help the group - our individualism is entrenched strongly. Of course, Obama may be deciding that his life is more importantremember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence.  While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK.  --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.pall@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 4:36 AM  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: We don't need a 3rd party.  We need to primary Obama with a Democrat who will stand up and say Obama doesn't represent the party of FDR, he represents the blood suckers on Wall Street. Bernie Sanders agrees we should primary Obama hoping it would push Obama further to the left. It's not going to happen. Obama has a lock on plenty of money for a campaign that would (if 2008 is any lesson) trash the reputation of the challenger, have the DNC cheat for him and play the race card for good measure. Obama is on the right, has always been on the right and will stay on the right regardless of a primary. The debt ceiling debate is just kabuki to make the rubes believe that the only choice, Flimflam Man has to save the county from defaulting on its debt is sacrifice Social Security and Medicare when in truth that is exactly what Obama was hired to do. If Obama were a Democrat, he would have stopped all
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington - no not you Tom
Politics is difficult and depressing and crazy-making - and I make myself crazy at times if I delve too far into the mania. Amazing, I wish the pain projecting liberals can come to a conclusion like you. Till the pain ends politics can be a great place for all the projections of a perfect world outside of us. I was lost in it till 2008, couldn't wait for the Rethuglican era to end, they looked evil to me, I'm glad I didn't invest my pain stock with Dolly Lama, Gandhi and MLK..LOL.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: Of course I wasn't calling you that...I was actually calling myself that.  Politics is difficult and depressing and crazy-making - and I make myself crazy at times if I delve too far into the mania.  Your opinion is certainly as valid as mine and likely more so (I do not have my bibliography to post online.  I am feeling like I am wasting precious time in life by allowing the politics to affect me at all in this reactive way. I needed some exercise - went for a long swim and my brain is functioning again and feeling  more optimistic.  I get depressed - I'm heading into the big M (and no, that is not M for Maharishi).  It's a brave new world on all fronts. If I don't get exercise, life looks a lot bleaker.  And no, I don't want to pay your property taxes - I just found out mine are the highest in the neighborhood!  Must be because I stupidly told the assessor about the renovations I'd done when I moved in - I've been paying higher taxes for years.  It's endless.  This is why I get so annoyed about corporate america's aversion to paying their fair share - I do. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.pall@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 6:08 PM  On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote:  I ask myself, why bother with acting like an ignorant pundit?  I choose to retreat from here and spend my time on staying alive.  Survival is a basic instinct, afterall. Well, you also have the choice of being an ignorant feminazi and instead of having a single original thought, post URLs and what they've read in HuffPost and other online rags. You've written some things here that amazed me. So well articulated, so well reasoned, so well thought out that I composed a couple of posts asking you to give the attribution of the source you copied your words from, since except for bitching, there's next to no articulated cogent writing on politics here that's original. I googled and was amazed to find that I couldn't find what you had written anywhere except in FFL. Amazing. BTW, if you were calling me an ignorant pundit, well when you start paying my property taxes, I'll let you guide my life a bit. Maybe even a FF like life coach, which according to the last US census, was the stated profession of 80% of all ru women in FF. Otherwise, I'll assume you were talking about our feminazis and not me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
Obama could save the day by invoking the 14th Amendment and shaming the Tea Party crazies for trying to burn down the house. It could be his ticket to victory in 2012, but will he do it? If he doesn't, Obama will be a one-term president. His base of loyal lefties is gone, the Tea Party wants his head, and the independents aren't impressed with his efforts to give away the farm. The manufactured debt ceiling crisis, the self-inflicted wound that has everyone disgusted with both parties, has made us ripe for the pickings by a stealth third party candidate that will be Obama's and our undoing. It won't be a Tea Party crazy. That would be too obvious. They need someone sneaky. It will be...drum roll please...an Ayn Rand, 3rd Reichian, uber-libertarian funded by Americans Elect, the spawn of Flat Earther, Thomas Friedman and the CATO institute. Their candidate will pose as a squeaky-clean man/woman of the people, a populist Bull Moose, Teddy Roosevelt type. Beware of any third party candidate faintly tainted by their stench. When I see a media promotion sponsored by Shell Oil like this: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/fast-fix/fast-fix-third-party-presidency-092236920.html I smell oil-billionaire-Koch-brother money priming the propaganda pump to make us believe anyone but a Republican or Democrat will magically fix the way Washington works. Sound familiar? Americans Elect seemingly comes from nowhere during an economic crisis. How did that happen? They are simply taking advantage of the disaster capitalism Naomi Klein warned us of in Shock Doctrine and they don't even have a candidate. They don't need one. They have cleverly hatched a plan to ask voters to nominate a candidate on the Internet. They promise the winner will be on the 2012 ballot in every state. Wow! Imagine the power every rube in the county will feel being involved in the nomination process instead of stuck with party picks. Americans Elect will give voters the illusion that they are picking a candidate when in fact it's a scam to solicit money for their Libertarian Super Pac so they can pick and promote whomever they damn well please. These jokers don't care about democracy. They care about bleeding the poor. Reagan was a big fan of Ayn Rand, which is why trickle down turned out to be an Orwellian trickle up from the have-nots to the haves. Libertarians cherish the vision of Ayn Rand world where, One puts oneself above all and crushes everything in one's way to get the best for oneself. They hate government regulation. They hate anything owned by the public...school, water, roads, energy. They hate government, especially government work programs to fix roads and bridges. Why raise taxes to fix anything when you can let it all go to hell, privatize the commons the sell it off to corporate globalists who pay slave wages? Libertarians are so fucking worried that grandma might have huge medical expenses; they rather cut off her Medicare than pay one dime more in higher taxes. Libertarians are evil, greedy bastards to the core. Real Democrats know in their bones that tax cuts only make the rich richer. Real Democrats know people need money in their pockets to drive the engine of economy. Real Democrats would fix our crumbling infrastructure and put people back to work as FDR did in the 1930's. That's how we got out of the Depression then and that's how we'll get out of hard times now. Real Democrats...I only wish.
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. Denise, I have been thinking about your question and just heard about this book by Ralph Nader, Only the Rich Can Save Us. The Amazon summary sounds fascinating. His basic positionis that the superrich (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc) have the means and power to make changes in various parts of our society (refomr of health care, education, government) if they decide to do so. Check it out if it sounds of interest to you. Of course, Obama may be deciding that his life is more importantremember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence.  While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK.  --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.pall@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 4:36 AM  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: We don't need a 3rd party.  We need to primary Obama with a Democrat who will stand up and say Obama doesn't represent the party of FDR, he represents the blood suckers on Wall Street. Bernie Sanders agrees we should primary Obama hoping it would push Obama further to the left. It's not going to happen. Obama has a lock on plenty of money for a campaign that would (if 2008 is any lesson) trash the reputation of the challenger, have the DNC cheat for him and play the race card for good measure. Obama is on the right, has always been on the right and will stay on the right regardless of a primary. The debt ceiling debate is just kabuki to make the rubes believe that the only choice, Flimflam Man has to save the county from defaulting on its debt is sacrifice Social Security and Medicare when in truth that is exactly what Obama was hired to do. If Obama were a Democrat, he would have stopped all the Republican crazy talk about the debt ceiling by simply saying he would invoke the 14th Amendment. Bill Clinton said he would invoke the constitutional option to raise the debt ceiling without hesitation, and force the courts to stop me in order to prevent a default. Now, there's a president with some balls. http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-the-14th-amendment/ For the past few weeks, Obama has shown no interest in involving Democrats in negotiating with Boehner, Cantor or McConnell because he couldn't have gotten away with unilaterally offering up programs to help the poor and women. Obama has continually lied about the strength and solvency of the social safety net and now he has accomplished what George W. Bush and every Republican before him could only dream of doing, destroy FDR's New Deal. What is going on here? I've been complaining about a lack of follow through, a lack of leadership.Yes, we're going to close GITMO, yes, gays in the military and so on yet when in office it's OK, at least two full scale wars are great, and we'll involve ourselves in civil wars as we do in Libya. It's Pax Americana all over again. We can't cut defense spending because when Obama became president he was born again and saw how important being involved in everybody else's life is good. Then there's the gay thing. Another president who cared would have used his powers as Commander in Chief. Another president would have said yes, I've got a duty to uphold the way, but I'm going to shirk my duty and tell Justice to lay off the DOM law. I've wondered where the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
On 07/29/2011 08:51 AM, wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evansdmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. Denise, I have been thinking about your question and just heard about this book by Ralph Nader, Only the Rich Can Save Us. The Amazon summary sounds fascinating. His basic positionis that the superrich (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc) have the means and power to make changes in various parts of our society (refomr of health care, education, government) if they decide to do so. Check it out if it sounds of interest to you. Problem is that Gates and Buffet type billionaires are the minority. There is a long history of older rich families who don't think much of the public and have little interest in saving anything. Look at the damage the Koch brothers are doing. We've spent centuries trying to rid ourselves of the landed gentry and we don't need to encourage retain that class division.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet just happen to have a value system with respect to social responsibiity that corresponds more closely to mine, persay. The Koch Brother's value system is antithetical to mine and, therefore, their influence and money-wielding power and control are damaging, to say the least. Oprah will save the day!! In all cases...too much money under too unilateral a controlof course, now the solution sounds like the dreaded socialism...and our president has already been accused of being a socialist in much bad press back in the good 'ol healthcare debate. Now we accuse him of being a pawn of the capitalists, a right-winger in sheep's clothing, a weak-willed community organizer, etc. I'm thinkin' prayer is the answer...and that action concept of non-violent defiance on the part of the people that was put forth in the ultimate conspiracy video of the illuminati posted here a few hundred posts back :) --- On Fri, 7/29/11, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 9:11 AM On 07/29/2011 08:51 AM, wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evansdmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. Denise, I have been thinking about your question and just heard about this book by Ralph Nader, Only the Rich Can Save Us. The Amazon summary sounds fascinating. His basic positionis that the superrich (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc) have the means and power to make changes in various parts of our society (refomr of health care, education, government) if they decide to do so. Check it out if it sounds of interest to you. Problem is that Gates and Buffet type billionaires are the minority. There is a long history of older rich families who don't think much of the public and have little interest in saving anything. Look at the damage the Koch brothers are doing. We've spent centuries trying to rid ourselves of the landed gentry and we don't need to encourage retain that class division.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
This makes enormous senseyou should publish this in the Op/Ed section :) --- On Fri, 7/29/11, raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com wrote: From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, July 29, 2011, 7:42 AM Obama could save the day by invoking the 14th Amendment and shaming the Tea Party crazies for trying to burn down the house. It could be his ticket to victory in 2012, but will he do it? If he doesn't, Obama will be a one-term president. His base of loyal lefties is gone, the Tea Party wants his head, and the independents aren't impressed with his efforts to give away the farm. The manufactured debt ceiling crisis, the self-inflicted wound that has everyone disgusted with both parties, has made us ripe for the pickings by a stealth third party candidate that will be Obama's and our undoing. It won't be a Tea Party crazy. That would be too obvious. They need someone sneaky. It will be...drum roll please...an Ayn Rand, 3rd Reichian, uber-libertarian funded by Americans Elect, the spawn of Flat Earther, Thomas Friedman and the CATO institute. Their candidate will pose as a squeaky-clean man/woman of the people, a populist Bull Moose, Teddy Roosevelt type. Beware of any third party candidate faintly tainted by their stench. When I see a media promotion sponsored by Shell Oil like this: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/fast-fix/fast-fix-third-party-presidency-092236920.html I smell oil-billionaire-Koch-brother money priming the propaganda pump to make us believe anyone but a Republican or Democrat will magically fix the way Washington works. Sound familiar? Americans Elect seemingly comes from nowhere during an economic crisis. How did that happen? They are simply taking advantage of the disaster capitalism Naomi Klein warned us of in Shock Doctrine and they don't even have a candidate. They don't need one. They have cleverly hatched a plan to ask voters to nominate a candidate on the Internet. They promise the winner will be on the 2012 ballot in every state. Wow! Imagine the power every rube in the county will feel being involved in the nomination process instead of stuck with party picks. Americans Elect will give voters the illusion that they are picking a candidate when in fact it's a scam to solicit money for their Libertarian Super Pac so they can pick and promote whomever they damn well please. These jokers don't care about democracy. They care about bleeding the poor. Reagan was a big fan of Ayn Rand, which is why trickle down turned out to be an Orwellian trickle up from the have-nots to the haves. Libertarians cherish the vision of Ayn Rand world where, One puts oneself above all and crushes everything in one's way to get the best for oneself. They hate government regulation. They hate anything owned by the public...school, water, roads, energy. They hate government, especially government work programs to fix roads and bridges. Why raise taxes to fix anything when you can let it all go to hell, privatize the commons the sell it off to corporate globalists who pay slave wages? Libertarians are so fucking worried that grandma might have huge medical expenses; they rather cut off her Medicare than pay one dime more in higher taxes. Libertarians are evil, greedy bastards to the core. Real Democrats know in their bones that tax cuts only make the rich richer. Real Democrats know people need money in their pockets to drive the engine of economy. Real Democrats would fix our crumbling infrastructure and put people back to work as FDR did in the 1930's. That's how we got out of the Depression then and that's how we'll get out of hard times now. Real Democrats...I only wish.
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
Do you remember Unity 08? Americans Elect, run by the same people, spouts the same clap trap. Only this time they have more money from God knows where and a more sophisticated plan. The mustache himself, Tom Friedman, laid out his Americans Elect 3rd Party plan in an Op-Ed published in the New York Times. Unsurprisingly, Friedman never mentions the word Libertarian. It's a trap, folks, a veritable roach motel. It's inviting on the outside but deadly on the inside. An Americans Elect candidate probably won't win but could possibly siphon enough votes from Obama, that we'll be singing hail to the chieftess, Sarah Palin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwJvxY7uENM http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24friedman.html?_r=3 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: Obama could save the day by invoking the 14th Amendment and shaming the Tea Party crazies for trying to burn down the house. It could be his ticket to victory in 2012, but will he do it? If he doesn't, Obama will be a one-term president. His base of loyal lefties is gone, the Tea Party wants his head, and the independents aren't impressed with his efforts to give away the farm. The manufactured debt ceiling crisis, the self-inflicted wound that has everyone disgusted with both parties, has made us ripe for the pickings by a stealth third party candidate that will be Obama's and our undoing. It won't be a Tea Party crazy. That would be too obvious. They need someone sneaky. It will be...drum roll please...an Ayn Rand, 3rd Reichian, uber-libertarian funded by Americans Elect, the spawn of Flat Earther, Thomas Friedman and the CATO institute. Their candidate will pose as a squeaky-clean man/woman of the people, a populist Bull Moose, Teddy Roosevelt type. Beware of any third party candidate faintly tainted by their stench. When I see a media promotion sponsored by Shell Oil like this: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/fast-fix/fast-fix-third-party-presidency-092236920.html I smell oil-billionaire-Koch-brother money priming the propaganda pump to make us believe anyone but a Republican or Democrat will magically fix the way Washington works. Sound familiar? Americans Elect seemingly comes from nowhere during an economic crisis. How did that happen? They are simply taking advantage of the disaster capitalism Naomi Klein warned us of in Shock Doctrine and they don't even have a candidate. They don't need one. They have cleverly hatched a plan to ask voters to nominate a candidate on the Internet. They promise the winner will be on the 2012 ballot in every state. Wow! Imagine the power every rube in the county will feel being involved in the nomination process instead of stuck with party picks. Americans Elect will give voters the illusion that they are picking a candidate when in fact it's a scam to solicit money for their Libertarian Super Pac so they can pick and promote whomever they damn well please. These jokers don't care about democracy. They care about bleeding the poor. Reagan was a big fan of Ayn Rand, which is why trickle down turned out to be an Orwellian trickle up from the have-nots to the haves. Libertarians cherish the vision of Ayn Rand world where, One puts oneself above all and crushes everything in one's way to get the best for oneself. They hate government regulation. They hate anything owned by the public...school, water, roads, energy. They hate government, especially government work programs to fix roads and bridges. Why raise taxes to fix anything when you can let it all go to hell, privatize the commons the sell it off to corporate globalists who pay slave wages? Libertarians are so fucking worried that grandma might have huge medical expenses; they rather cut off her Medicare than pay one dime more in higher taxes. Libertarians are evil, greedy bastards to the core. Real Democrats know in their bones that tax cuts only make the rich richer. Real Democrats know people need money in their pockets to drive the engine of economy. Real Democrats would fix our crumbling infrastructure and put people back to work as FDR did in the 1930's. That's how we got out of the Depression then and that's how we'll get out of hard times now. Real Democrats...I only wish.
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. I think in our society, just about the only way to change people's minds and/or to mobilize them to make demands of corporate America is through a movie, or several, that get the information out in a simple, vivid, unambiguous form. Most people don't want to think too much or deeply about anything complicated. So the movies would need to be compelling, clear, somewhat simple, and appeal to a variety of issues that affect us. People would have to get that without change, they are hurt financially, and that with change, they will benefit financially. Along with the movie some simple, inexpensive ways to put pressure on corporations has to be available. But I hold little hope that anything would work. If climate change and health insurance are examples of our behavior on issues, despite how important they are, then everyone will just follow along in their same thought patterns. What I see is that the only reason most people are interested in driving a smaller, gas efficient car now is because the cost of gas bothers them. And most don't want national health insurance because, God forbid, they might end up paying a few pennies for some disabled or unemployed person's health care, too. We here in the US don't do much to help the group - our individualism is entrenched strongly. Of course, Obama may be deciding that his life is more importantremember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence.  While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK.  --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.pall@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 4:36 AM  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: We don't need a 3rd party.  We need to primary Obama with a Democrat who will stand up and say Obama doesn't represent the party of FDR, he represents the blood suckers on Wall Street. Bernie Sanders agrees we should primary Obama hoping it would push Obama further to the left. It's not going to happen. Obama has a lock on plenty of money for a campaign that would (if 2008 is any lesson) trash the reputation of the challenger, have the DNC cheat for him and play the race card for good measure. Obama is on the right, has always been on the right and will stay on the right regardless of a primary. The debt ceiling debate is just kabuki to make the rubes believe that the only choice, Flimflam Man has to save the county from defaulting on its debt is sacrifice Social Security and Medicare when in truth that is exactly what Obama was hired to do. If Obama were a Democrat, he would have stopped all the Republican crazy talk about the debt ceiling by simply saying he would invoke the 14th Amendment. Bill Clinton said he would invoke the constitutional option to raise the debt ceiling without hesitation, and force the courts to stop me in order to prevent a default. Now, there's a president with some balls. http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-the-14th-amendment/ For the past few weeks, Obama has shown no interest in involving Democrats in negotiating with Boehner, Cantor or McConnell because he couldn't have gotten away with unilaterally offering up programs to help the poor and women. Obama has continually lied about the strength and solvency of the social safety net and now he has accomplished what George W. Bush and every
[FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I've said for a long time that it is corporate that's running the show.  While I believe Obama thought he could usher in a more just and robust America, he wasn't able to and is now another pawn taking directions from the big Democratic party doners.  However, he faced unbelievable odds...Bush and the Republicans left this country in tatters after inheriting the strongest federal balance sheet in postwar history.  I have no understanding of how anyone could trust that agenda, which is why, when I look at the alternative to Obama, I get even more worried.  All politicians give us BS in their speeches - I can't tolerate listening to any of them on either side.  I think we need to get a message to the Democratic Party and our individual reps...they are just as bad right now in using sensationalism and self-righteousness to drum up money as the other side...two sides of the same coin.  It's a completely flawed system. Maybe there is value in a 4th party, I don't know. Until we, the people, address corporate america and demand that they work for us and not the other way around, we are screwed.  How do we do this?  I'd like to hear some ideas. Of course, Obama may be deciding that his life is more important I think Obama spent his entire life compromising and fitting in so he could get a good education, achieve and do something significant with his life. Compromising is his entrenched way of being. Times now might be calling for more forcefulness than he has. remember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence.  While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK.  --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.pall@... Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 4:36 AM  On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 9:40 AM, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: We don't need a 3rd party.  We need to primary Obama with a Democrat who will stand up and say Obama doesn't represent the party of FDR, he represents the blood suckers on Wall Street. Bernie Sanders agrees we should primary Obama hoping it would push Obama further to the left. It's not going to happen. Obama has a lock on plenty of money for a campaign that would (if 2008 is any lesson) trash the reputation of the challenger, have the DNC cheat for him and play the race card for good measure. Obama is on the right, has always been on the right and will stay on the right regardless of a primary. The debt ceiling debate is just kabuki to make the rubes believe that the only choice, Flimflam Man has to save the county from defaulting on its debt is sacrifice Social Security and Medicare when in truth that is exactly what Obama was hired to do. If Obama were a Democrat, he would have stopped all the Republican crazy talk about the debt ceiling by simply saying he would invoke the 14th Amendment. Bill Clinton said he would invoke the constitutional option to raise the debt ceiling without hesitation, and force the courts to stop me in order to prevent a default. Now, there's a president with some balls. http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/19/bill-clinton-says-he-would-use-the-14th-amendment/ For the past few weeks, Obama has shown no interest in involving Democrats in negotiating with Boehner, Cantor or McConnell because he couldn't have gotten away with unilaterally offering up programs to help the poor and women. Obama has continually lied about the strength and solvency of the social safety net and now he has accomplished what George W. Bush and every Republican before him could only dream of doing, destroy FDR's New Deal. What is going on here? I've been complaining about a lack of follow through, a lack of leadership.Yes, we're going to close GITMO, yes, gays in the military and so on yet when in office it's OK, at least two full scale wars are great, and we'll involve ourselves in civil wars as we do in Libya. It's Pax Americana all over again. We can't cut defense spending because when Obama became president he was born again and saw how important being involved in everybody else's life is good. Then there's the gay thing. Another president who cared would have used his powers as Commander in Chief. Another president would have said yes, I've got a duty to uphold the way, but I'm going to shirk my duty and tell Justice to lay off the DOM law. I've wondered where the leadership's been. Why not stand up against the Repubs. FDR did, LBJ did, Bill Clinton acted presidential. I'm starting to agree with you, RD. It's looking like we have
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 4:22 PM, wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com wrote: remember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence. Â While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK. Â I expected that Obama would meet the same fate as the 3 mentioned, only sooner. But he's a crafty one. Indeed he got by by being the affirmative action token who appealed to the black, Hispanic and liberal vote and accommodation. That's what community organizers do. And lawyers plea bargain be it in criminal or civil matters. Instead of carrying out 1% of what he promised, he chose life and re-election rather than principle. The three men mentioned would not have done that. The 3 men mentioned were of the Great War generation. They knew what principle was, what conviction was (*JFK wrote Profiles in Courage*). If offered a choice beforehand, each would, IMO, have chosen to give up his live. The Kennedy's, if they had been told what would follow their demise would have had a different idea about giving up their lives for principle. Seeing that they'd be dying so what they were most against would win out. Well, kind of. JFK's death got the Great Society. But it also got the Vietnam disaster. These are days where it's not principle. It's way beyond the ME Generation. And of course what party operative from Chicago ever had principles?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
All in all, reality dictates that the majority of us live within the systemand most of us, including myself, are still struggling within such system. Currently, you have three choices...Republican or Democrat or Independent...if you choose to participate in our political system. We are all disappointed in various ways, but I still have way more faith in Obama then I do in the fungus underneath any one of the current Republican leaders toenails. I don't think any of us, including myself, can even hope to say anything intelligent about what we know nothing about, such as doing the job ourselves, what he is up against, etc. I see many signs that he is fighting the fight, but perhaps not in the way that is recognizable to everyone. I think that overall, he has accomplished an amazing amount. We know this by how hard the other party is fighting and slamming every aspect of him, if we don't bother to check it out ourselves. While I refuse to give money to any political party, I would vote for Obama again, as I think he has done more to start the correction in the nightmare that is Washington and our Congress than anyone could have and I don't see a worthy alternative. Yes, he is a compromiser and an intellect and perhaps he is too wedded to the ideal that we will all come together, but he represents us and until we come up with a better solution, he should have our support. A Republican regime right now, IMHO, would be selling our soul to an even greater extent. I will never concede that the Bush years did anything but badly destabilize every part of our country and relationship to the planet. Talk is cheap and so are my words, which are worth little. We have no control and no insight that is worth anything really. I ask myself, why bother with acting like an ignorant pundit? I choose to retreat from here and spend my time on staying alive. Survival is a basic instinct, afterall. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 3:20 PM On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 4:22 PM, wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com wrote: remember what happens to those who are too outspoken and gain too much influence. Â While I have no proof of course.I always think about JFK, Bobby Kennedy, and MLK. Â I expected that Obama would meet the same fate as the 3 mentioned, only sooner. But he's a crafty one. Indeed he got by by being the affirmative action token who appealed to the black, Hispanic and liberal vote and accommodation. That's what community organizers do. And lawyers plea bargain be it in criminal or civil matters. Instead of carrying out 1% of what he promised, he chose life and re-election rather than principle. The three men mentioned would not have done that. The 3 men mentioned were of the Great War generation. They knew what principle was, what conviction was (JFK wrote Profiles in Courage). If offered a choice beforehand, each would, IMO, have chosen to give up his live. The Kennedy's, if they had been told what would follow their demise would have had a different idea about giving up their lives for principle. Seeing that they'd be dying so what they were most against would win out. Well, kind of. JFK's death got the Great Society. But it also got the Vietnam disaster. These are days where it's not principle. It's way beyond the ME Generation. And of course what party operative from Chicago ever had principles?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Denise Evans dmevans...@yahoo.com wrote: I ask myself, why bother with acting like an ignorant pundit? I choose to retreat from here and spend my time on staying alive. Survival is a basic instinct, afterall. Well, you also have the choice of being an ignorant feminazi and instead of having a single original thought, post URLs and what they've read in HuffPost and other online rags. You've written some things here that amazed me. So well articulated, so well reasoned, so well thought out that I composed a couple of posts asking you to give the attribution of the source you copied your words from, since except for bitching, there's next to no articulated cogent writing on politics here that's original. I googled and was amazed to find that I couldn't find what you had written anywhere except in FFL. Amazing. BTW, if you were calling me an ignorant pundit, well when you start paying my property taxes, I'll let you guide my life a bit. Maybe even a FF like life coach, which according to the last US census, was the stated profession of 80% of all ru women in FF. Otherwise, I'll assume you were talking about our feminazis and not me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington - no not you Tom
Of course I wasn't calling you that...I was actually calling myself that. Politics is difficult and depressing and crazy-making - and I make myself crazy at times if I delve too far into the mania. Your opinion is certainly as valid as mine and likely more so (I do not have my bibliography to post online. I am feeling like I am wasting precious time in life by allowing the politics to affect me at all in this reactive way. I needed some exercise - went for a long swim and my brain is functioning again and feeling more optimistic. I get depressed - I'm heading into the big M (and no, that is not M for Maharishi). It's a brave new world on all fronts. If I don't get exercise, life looks a lot bleaker. And no, I don't want to pay your property taxes - I just found out mine are the highest in the neighborhood! Must be because I stupidly told the assessor about the renovations I'd done when I moved in - I've been paying higher taxes for years. It's endless. This is why I get so annoyed about corporate america's aversion to paying their fair share - I do. --- On Thu, 7/28/11, Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #f@ckyouwashington To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, July 28, 2011, 6:08 PM On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Denise Evans dmevans...@yahoo.com wrote: I ask myself, why bother with acting like an ignorant pundit? I choose to retreat from here and spend my time on staying alive. Survival is a basic instinct, afterall. Well, you also have the choice of being an ignorant feminazi and instead of having a single original thought, post URLs and what they've read in HuffPost and other online rags. You've written some things here that amazed me. So well articulated, so well reasoned, so well thought out that I composed a couple of posts asking you to give the attribution of the source you copied your words from, since except for bitching, there's next to no articulated cogent writing on politics here that's original. I googled and was amazed to find that I couldn't find what you had written anywhere except in FFL. Amazing. BTW, if you were calling me an ignorant pundit, well when you start paying my property taxes, I'll let you guide my life a bit. Maybe even a FF like life coach, which according to the last US census, was the stated profession of 80% of all ru women in FF. Otherwise, I'll assume you were talking about our feminazis and not me.
