[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wgm4u" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Very disturbing story, if true, and probably is. Although it doesn't > mean that TM doesn't work, just that MMY is promoting what I think is > just Neo-Hinduism. I think of it more as meta-Hinduism...
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > I remember Knapp always walking around stridently as a Movement > > minion while I was at Livingston Manor, like he had a pencil up his > > butt. He doesn't seem to have changed his personality much. Once a > > zealot, always a zealot I suppose. > > He strikes me as being in no less a state of polarity about TM as the > most ardent TM TB; he's merely flipped from one extreme to the > opposite extreme. And, he apparently fancies himself a therapist who > specializes in helping people who have left the TM org. But, can > someone in bondage to polarity who actively tries to recruit others > into the same state of polarity truly offer any degree of real freedom > as a therapist? I think a person who believes he was harmed by his > involvement with TM would be better served by a therapist with some > degree of equanimity. > Good point- I agree.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wgm4u" wrote: > > > > Very disturbing story, if true, and probably is. Although it doesn't > > mean that TM doesn't work, just that MMY is promoting what I think is > > just Neo-Hinduism. > > > > Just think...we don't even know what form of meditation MMY > > practiced/practices, and do we know if the Guru Dev taught TM? I know > > some were initiated by Guru Dev, but what did he teach? > > > > > > I guess some people will take anything seriously... > > In fact, it is doubtful that Gurudev taught TM exactly like MMY does because MMY himself > takes credit/blame for the specifics of TM, due to "direct inspiration" from Gurudev. > > On the other hand, Swami Shatanda Saraswati taught Anoop Chandola to meditate and the > local TM center policy was to treat him as a regular TMer as far as invitations to advanced > lectures and so on was concerned. Didn't someone on FFL say that they wer einitiated into > an Advanced Technique by Swami Satchananda, a brother-monk of the SBS lineage, but > that Satchananda paused during the TM puja for far longer than the average TM teacher > would have? > > It seems to me that you can make a case that MMY took various traditional techniques > taught by various traditions and transformed them into a consistent set based on his > intuitiion about what is what. IOW, he didn't make everything up, but he didn't learn it all > by rote from his guru, either. Sounds reasonable, it's a little disturbing to think he made it up as he went a long, but it's very possible. Charlie Lutes once made the comment that MMY said."I know not how this works on humans". Well, it seems to work, at least to some (greater or lesser) degree, I can say that I have experienced concentrated happiness (bliss) like MMY said.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wgm4u" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Very disturbing story, if true, and probably is. Although it doesn't > mean that TM doesn't work, just that MMY is promoting what I think is > just Neo-Hinduism. > > Just think...we don't even know what form of meditation MMY > practiced/practices, and do we know if the Guru Dev taught TM? I know > some were initiated by Guru Dev, but what did he teach? > > I guess some people will take anything seriously... In fact, it is doubtful that Gurudev taught TM exactly like MMY does because MMY himself takes credit/blame for the specifics of TM, due to "direct inspiration" from Gurudev. On the other hand, Swami Shatanda Saraswati taught Anoop Chandola to meditate and the local TM center policy was to treat him as a regular TMer as far as invitations to advanced lectures and so on was concerned. Didn't someone on FFL say that they wer einitiated into an Advanced Technique by Swami Satchananda, a brother-monk of the SBS lineage, but that Satchananda paused during the TM puja for far longer than the average TM teacher would have? It seems to me that you can make a case that MMY took various traditional techniques taught by various traditions and transformed them into a consistent set based on his intuitiion about what is what. IOW, he didn't make everything up, but he didn't learn it all by rote from his guru, either.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
Very disturbing story, if true, and probably is. Although it doesn't mean that TM doesn't work, just that MMY is promoting what I think is just Neo-Hinduism. Just think...we don't even know what form of meditation MMY practiced/practices, and do we know if the Guru Dev taught TM? I know some were initiated by Guru Dev, but what did he teach? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Posted by John M. Knapp, >First there was the recent submission on the Transcendental Meditation Age of Enlightenment techniques. Then followed the lively discussion pointing out that the Maharishi tried first one version then another on unsuspecting 6-Month course participants. > > The guy was basically making it up as he went along. If one thing didn't work, why then he'd try something else. Older readers here may remember that the Maharishi referred to the Age of Enlightenment techniques and the later sidhis as "research experiments into consciousness" after all. > > As Joseppi justly pointed out, we were just lab rats to the Maharishi. Worse, we were paying lab rats. We paid not only the equivalent of $25,000 in today's money, we paid in time from our lives. And some of us paid in psychological damage from "spiritual" experiments that the Maharishi had no idea how they would turn out. Until we lined up to sip the psychological Kool Aid. > > This isn't just morally wrong. It's criminal. > > After the Nazi horrors of World War II, during which Nazi scientists experimented medically and psychologically on Jews and others, the world reacted with shock. They passed the Nuremberg Code of Ethics, parts of which were later incorporated into the Geneva Conventions. International law made it illegal to perform any type of human experimentation without the informed consent of participants. Informed consent requires that "test subjects" be told in advance that they are taking part in experimental procedures and the possible side effects. "Impermissible experiments" on humans explicitly included not just medical, but psychological experimentation as well. > > From the victims of the Maharishi's experiments known as the Fiuggi Flipouts, to the course participants of the 6-Month Course, to the continuing experiments of Ayur Veda and even the million-dollar Raja course, the Maharishi is conducting impermissible experiments on unsuspecting human subjects. > > Not informing us that he is experimenting, that there are unknown risks and dangers to physical and mental well-being that he is in fact making it up as he goes along is a crime against humanity. > > > > > > - > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I remember Knapp always walking around stridently as a Movement > minion while I was at Livingston Manor, like he had a pencil up his > butt. He doesn't seem to have changed his personality much. Once a > zealot, always a zealot I suppose. He strikes me as being in no less a state of polarity about TM as the most ardent TM TB; he's merely flipped from one extreme to the opposite extreme. And, he apparently fancies himself a therapist who specializes in helping people who have left the TM org. But, can someone in bondage to polarity who actively tries to recruit others into the same state of polarity truly offer any degree of real freedom as a therapist? I think a person who believes he was harmed by his involvement with TM would be better served by a therapist with some degree of equanimity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Posted by John M. Knapp, >First there was the recent submission on the Transcendental Meditation Age > of Enlightenment techniques. Then followed the lively discussion pointing out that the Maharishi tried first one version then another on unsuspecting 6-Month course participants. > > The guy was basically making it up as he went along. If one thing didn't > work, why then he'd try something else. Older readers here may remember that the Maharishi referred to the Age of Enlightenment techniques and the later sidhis as "research experiments into consciousness" after all. > > As Joseppi justly pointed out, we were just lab rats to the Maharishi. Worse, > we were paying lab rats. We paid not only the equivalent of $25,000 in today's money, we paid in time from our lives. And some of us paid in psychological damage from "spiritual" experiments that the Maharishi had no idea how they would turn out. Until we lined up to sip the psychological Kool Aid. > > This isn't just morally wrong. It's criminal. > > After the Nazi horrors of World War II, during which Nazi scientists > experimented medically and psychologically on Jews and others, the world reacted with shock. They passed the Nuremberg Code of Ethics, parts of which were later incorporated into the Geneva Conventions. International law made it illegal to perform any type of human experimentation without the informed consent of participants. Informed consent requires that "test subjects" be told in advance that they are taking part in experimental procedures and the possible side effects. "Impermissible experiments" on humans explicitly included not just medical, but psychological experimentation as well. > > From the victims of the Maharishi's experiments known as the Fiuggi Flipouts, > to the course participants of the 6-Month Course, to the continuing experiments of Ayur Veda and even the million-dollar Raja course, the Maharishi is conducting impermissible experiments on unsuspecting human subjects. > > Not informing us that he is experimenting, that there are unknown risks and > dangers to physical and mental well-being that he is in fact making it up as he goes along is a crime against humanity. > As the former grants administrator to MIU said, Maharishi is far worse than Jim Jones... Does anyone really take these guys seriously?
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel > wrote: > > > > Posted by John M. Knapp, > >First there was the recent submission on the Transcendental > Meditation Age of Enlightenment techniques. Then followed the lively > discussion pointing out that the Maharishi tried first one version > then another on unsuspecting 6-Month course participants. > > > > The guy was basically making it up as he went along. If one thing > didn't work, why then he'd try something else. Older readers here > may remember that the Maharishi referred to the Age of Enlightenment > techniques and the later sidhis as "research experiments into > consciousness" after all. > > > > As Joseppi justly pointed out, we were just lab rats to the > Maharishi. Worse, we were paying lab rats. We paid not only the > equivalent of $25,000 in today's money, we paid in time from our > lives. And some of us paid in psychological damage from "spiritual" > experiments that the Maharishi had no idea how they would turn out. > Until we lined up to sip the psychological Kool Aid. > > > > This isn't just morally wrong. It's criminal. > > > > After the Nazi horrors of World War II, during which Nazi > scientists experimented medically and psychologically on Jews and > others, the world reacted with shock. They passed the Nuremberg Code > of Ethics, parts of which were later incorporated into the Geneva > Conventions. International law made it illegal to perform any type > of human experimentation without the informed consent of > participants. Informed consent requires that "test subjects" be told > in advance that they are taking part in experimental procedures > and the possible side effects. "Impermissible experiments" on humans > explicitly included not just medical, but psychological > experimentation as well. > > > > From the victims of the Maharishi's experiments known as the > Fiuggi Flipouts, to the course participants of the 6-Month Course, > to the continuing experiments of Ayur Veda and even the million- > dollar Raja course, the Maharishi is conducting impermissible > experiments on unsuspecting human subjects. > > > > Not informing us that he is experimenting, that there are unknown > risks and dangers to physical and mental well-being that he is in > fact making it up as he goes along is a crime against humanity. > > > > > I remember Knapp always walking around stridently as a Movement > minion while I was at Livingston Manor, like he had a pencil up his > butt. He doesn't seem to have changed his personality much. Once a > zealot, always a zealot I suppose. This fellow, as many others, are attracted by the smell of $; they think they have hit an opportunity. They have nowhere to go, and will get nowhere. If they sue the Movement they will loose, and having the thought in mind to harm Maharishi, they do even more damage to their own future lives. Simple rules of Karma really.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'TM-Flip-outs by JM Knapp, anti-TM blogger 1.19.2007
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Posted by John M. Knapp, >First there was the recent submission on the Transcendental Meditation Age of Enlightenment techniques. Then followed the lively discussion pointing out that the Maharishi tried first one version then another on unsuspecting 6-Month course participants. > > The guy was basically making it up as he went along. If one thing didn't work, why then he'd try something else. Older readers here may remember that the Maharishi referred to the Age of Enlightenment techniques and the later sidhis as "research experiments into consciousness" after all. > > As Joseppi justly pointed out, we were just lab rats to the Maharishi. Worse, we were paying lab rats. We paid not only the equivalent of $25,000 in today's money, we paid in time from our lives. And some of us paid in psychological damage from "spiritual" experiments that the Maharishi had no idea how they would turn out. Until we lined up to sip the psychological Kool Aid. > > This isn't just morally wrong. It's criminal. > > After the Nazi horrors of World War II, during which Nazi scientists experimented medically and psychologically on Jews and others, the world reacted with shock. They passed the Nuremberg Code of Ethics, parts of which were later incorporated into the Geneva Conventions. International law made it illegal to perform any type of human experimentation without the informed consent of participants. Informed consent requires that "test subjects" be told in advance that they are taking part in experimental procedures and the possible side effects. "Impermissible experiments" on humans explicitly included not just medical, but psychological experimentation as well. > > From the victims of the Maharishi's experiments known as the Fiuggi Flipouts, to the course participants of the 6-Month Course, to the continuing experiments of Ayur Veda and even the million- dollar Raja course, the Maharishi is conducting impermissible experiments on unsuspecting human subjects. > > Not informing us that he is experimenting, that there are unknown risks and dangers to physical and mental well-being that he is in fact making it up as he goes along is a crime against humanity. > > I remember Knapp always walking around stridently as a Movement minion while I was at Livingston Manor, like he had a pencil up his butt. He doesn't seem to have changed his personality much. Once a zealot, always a zealot I suppose.
