Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
emptyb, you may find this interesting. In exposition on Veda in human physiology, Rajaram writes that the science of Agama is part of Sthapatya Veda that deals with sculpture, specifically how to make a sculpture or statue come to life. He associates each of 28 individual agamas with 28 joints in the human body. For example, he finds a correlation between the right elbow and Prodgitagama. All of this discussion is located in the chapter VIII having to do with the Upa vedas. From: "emptyb...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 5:28 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition This is just Southern Tamil sewage asserting itself as "higher" than the Veda and more "pure" than anything accepted by those "northern brahmins". Here is a good general description: Agamas prescribe image worship in the place of rituals like Yajnas, mentioned in the Vedas. Agamas cover areas of worship inclusive of construction of the temples; the rules for installation and consecration of the deities; the methods of performing pujas in the temples; philosophy; recitation of mantras; worship involving figures or yantras; bhakti yoga; domestic rituals samskaras; rules of varnasrama-dharma and public festivals. Various Vaishnava traditions have different degree of adherence and various lists of texts included under the overall concept. The term Agama primarily means tradition; Agama represents the previously ordained practices generally held in regard (Agama loka-dharmanaam maryada purva-nirmita -Mbh 8.145.61). Agama is also that which helps to understand things correctly and comprehensively. Agama Shastras are not part of the Vedas. The Agamas do not derive their authority directly from the Vedas. They are Vedic in spirit and character and make use of Vedic mantras while performing the service. The Agama shastras are based in the belief that the divinity can be approached in two ways. It can be viewed as nishkala, formless – absolute; or as sakala having specific aspects. Nishkala is all-pervasive and is neither explicit nor is it visible. It is analogues, as the Agama texts explain, to the oil in the sesame-seed, fire in the fuel, butter in milk, and scent in flower. It is in human as antaryamin, the inner guide. It has no form and is not apprehended by sense organs, which includes mind. Sakala, on the other hand, is explicit energy like the fire that has emerged out of the fuel, oil extracted out of the seed, butter that floated to the surface after churning milk or like the fragrance that spreads and delights all. That energy can manifest itself in different forms and humans can approach those forms through appropriate means. The Agamas recognize that means as the archa, the worship methods unique to each form of energy-manifestation or divinity. The Vedas do not discuss about venerating the icons; though the icons (prathima or prathika) were known to be in use. Their preoccupation was more with the nature, abstract divinities and not with their physical representations. The Vedas did however employ a number of symbols, such as the wheel, umbrella, spear, noose, foot-prints, lotus, goad and vehicles etc. These symbols, in the later ages, became a part of the vocabulary of the iconography. There are also the Agama and Tantra ways of worship of the other gods, as Ganesa, Surya and Skanda. The Vaishnava theology of the Agama type is especially propounded in treatises like the The devotion with which the seeker of God tries to commune himself inwardly takes the shape of outer worship in the beginning with its usual traditions and regulations, requiring materials of worship such as flowers and offerings. There are three main divisions in Agama shastra, the Shaiva, the Shaktha and Vaishnava. The Shaiva branch of the Agama deals with the worship of the deity in the form of Shiva. This branch in turn has given rise to Shaiva Siddantha of the South and the Prathyabijnana School of Kashmir Shaivisim. The Shakta Agama prescribes the rules and tantric rituals for worship of Shakti, Devi the divine mother. The third one, Vaishanava Agama adores God as Vishnu the protector. This branch has two major divisions Vaikhanasa and Pancharatra. The latter in turn has a sub branch called Tantra Sara followed mainly by the Dvaita (Dualist) sects (i.e. Madhwas). Each Agama consists of four parts. The first part includes the philosophical and spiritual knowledge. The second part covers the yoga and the mental discipline. The third part specifies rules for the construction of temples and for sculpting and carving the figures of deities for worship in the temples. The fourth part of the Agamas includes rules pertaining to the observances of religious rites, rituals, and festivals. Agama is essentially a tradition and Tantra is a techniq
[FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
emptybill said " This is just Southern Tamil sewage asserting itself as "higher" than the Veda and more "pure" than anything accepted by those "northern brahmins". This can't be described as anything other than racist and name calling and lying about what I posted. You should be banned.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
You always accuse others of the bad behavior which you are perpetrating. You are the one who is engaged in nothing but name-calling and insults. I did nothing of the sort. You make assumptions about what I do or don't do or what I know or don't know with no basis whatsoever. You don't show the basic maturity required to engage in any kind of adult on-line discussion. You should delete your account or the moderator should have done it for you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
Calling Tamils sewage is just the latest from you that proves to anyone why you have zero credibility. My initial post was not directed at the Tamil people but to the typical arguments propounded by psuckophants like you ... people too ignorant to find out more. Your disingenuous reply is just an Alinsky-like, Neo-Marxist tirade - based upon name-calling. It suits you quite well. Unlike you, I perform a maha.rudra.abhishekam to Shiva - an intensely profound yajña from the Panchratra lineage of the South Indian Agama-s. That is Panchratra Agama. Get it? One Agama text that is available in English is: Lakshmi Tantra, A Pancharatra Text, by Sanjukta Gupta. https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/8120817354/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467657284&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=Sanjukta+Gupta+-+Laksmi+Tantra%2C+a+Pancharatra+text+ISBN+978-81-208-1735-7&condition=new https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/8120817354/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2_olp?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467657284&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=Sanjukta+Gupta+-+Laksmi+Tantra%2C+a+Pancharatra+text+ISBN+978-81-208-1735-7&condition=new Too bad you are a poorly informed ideologue, because you might learn something by reading it. Even better, pay a pundit to show you how to perform a puja-yajña to Shiva.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
Calling Tamils sewage is just the latest from you that proves to anyone why you have zero credibility.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Agamas more important and prior to Vedas in hindu tradition
This is just Southern Tamil sewage asserting itself as "higher" than the Veda and more "pure" than anything accepted by those "northern brahmins". Here is a good general description: Agamas prescribe image worship in the place of rituals like Yajnas, mentioned in the Vedas. Agamas cover areas of worship inclusive of construction of the temples; the rules for installation and consecration of the deities; the methods of performing pujas in the temples; philosophy; recitation of mantras; worship involving figures or yantras; bhakti yoga; domestic rituals samskaras; rules of varnasrama-dharma and public festivals. Various Vaishnava traditions have different degree of adherence and various lists of texts included under the overall concept. The term Agama primarily means tradition; Agama represents the previously ordained practices generally held in regard (Agama loka-dharmanaam maryada purva-nirmita -Mbh 8.145.61). Agama is also that which helps to understand things correctly and comprehensively. Agama Shastras are not part of the Vedas. The Agamas do not derive their authority directly from the Vedas. They are Vedic in spirit and character and make use of Vedic mantras while performing the service. The Agama shastras are based in the belief that the divinity can be approached in two ways. It can be viewed as nishkala, formless – absolute; or as sakala having specific aspects. Nishkala is all-pervasive and is neither explicit nor is it visible. It is analogues, as the Agama texts explain, to the oil in the sesame-seed, fire in the fuel, butter in milk, and scent in flower. It is in human as antaryamin, the inner guide. It has no form and is not apprehended by sense organs, which includes mind. Sakala, on the other hand, is explicit energy like the fire that has emerged out of the fuel, oil extracted out of the seed, butter that floated to the surface after churning milk or like the fragrance that spreads and delights all. That energy can manifest itself in different forms and humans can approach those forms through appropriate means. The Agamas recognize that means as the archa, the worship methods unique to each form of energy-manifestation or divinity. The Vedas do not discuss about venerating the icons; though the icons (prathima or prathika) were known to be in use. Their preoccupation was more with the nature, abstract divinities and not with their physical representations. The Vedas did however employ a number of symbols, such as the wheel, umbrella, spear, noose, foot-prints, lotus, goad and vehicles etc. These symbols, in the later ages, became a part of the vocabulary of the iconography. There are also the Agama and Tantra ways of worship of the other gods, as Ganesa, Surya and Skanda. The Vaishnava theology of the Agama type is especially propounded in treatises like the The devotion with which the seeker of God tries to commune himself inwardly takes the shape of outer worship in the beginning with its usual traditions and regulations, requiring materials of worship such as flowers and offerings. There are three main divisions in Agama shastra, the Shaiva, the Shaktha and Vaishnava. The Shaiva branch of the Agama deals with the worship of the deity in the form of Shiva. This branch in turn has given rise to Shaiva Siddantha of the South and the Prathyabijnana School of Kashmir Shaivisim. The Shakta Agama prescribes the rules and tantric rituals for worship of Shakti, Devi the divine mother. The third one, Vaishanava Agama adores God as Vishnu the protector. This branch has two major divisions Vaikhanasa and Pancharatra. The latter in turn has a sub branch called Tantra Sara followed mainly by the Dvaita (Dualist) sects (i.e. Madhwas). Each Agama consists of four parts. The first part includes the philosophical and spiritual knowledge. The second part covers the yoga and the mental discipline. The third part specifies rules for the construction of temples and for sculpting and carving the figures of deities for worship in the temples. The fourth part of the Agamas includes rules pertaining to the observances of religious rites, rituals, and festivals. Agama is essentially a tradition and Tantra is a technique; but both share the same ideology.But, Agama is wider in its scope; and contains aspects oh theory, discussion and speculation.The term Agama is used usually for the Shaiva and Vasishnava traditions and the Shakta cult is termed as Tantric. But, there is an element of Tantra in Agama worship too, particularly in Pancharatra.
