[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] The ultimate form of this enforced ignorance I'm talking about, of course, is when someone points out that the diehard TMer really doesn't know very much, they *admit* that they don't know very much, and then they try to make a case for not knowing very much being *superior*, a position that actually makes them *better* than those who know more than they do. Actually I know almost nothing... It's like listening to the George W. Bushes of spirituality. :-) :-) :-) Actually, he knows everyting, and knows it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. This question came up during my TTC and the instruction was that we invite the student to kneel; if he doesn't, that's his choice. That's been my experience and observation. I just wonder how Barry was taught to handle the situation given that he was taught: no kneelie, no mantra... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
So any who disagree will be lying? There is another possiblity. Wanna guess what that is? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... So any who disagree will be lying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditation techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. It really IS pretty amazing, isn't it? This entire group of people who have never tried any other technique of meditation or self discovery but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet they consider themselves authoritative about the subject of meditation as a whole. It's one of the things that keeps me fascinated by TMers, after all this time. I mean, you've been around the spiritual block a bit, right? Have you *ever* encountered any other group that knows as little as your standard TMer or TM teacher and yet believes that they know so much? I keep coming back to the teaching analogy that Maharishi used to use, in my opinion ironically. He used to speak about the kid who goes to his first day of school and learns A, B and C and then comes back and teaches his siblings A, B and C, because that's all he knows. As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, and studying directly with teachers who cover the subjects that can't be written down, I've probably encountered only seven or eight more letters of the alphabet. In this lifetime I'll never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge that is out there. But at the same time I've come to realize that (in my opinion) Maharishi himself was always seriously light in the loafers in terms of how much *he* knew. I honestly think that *he* was aware of only A, B and C, and knew little or nothing about the other spiritual letters of the alphabet, the other 90% of the body of spiritual knowledge. His genius, if it could be called that, was to convince stupid Westerners that he knew more than he did, and to keep repeating endless variations of A, B and C for forty years. Doing this, he *not only* convinced most of the people listening that they were hearing the entire alphabet of spiritual knowledge, but *also* convinced them that *they* knew more than seekers from any other tradition. He kept people SO spiritually sheltered and isolated that they never could become exposed to anyone who could tell them, Hey, I've listened to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are other letters? He created an environment in which fear of drifting off the program was so strong that most of his followers don't even have any *curiosity* about learning more; they're that convinced that they already know everything that is worth learning. It's a truly amazing accomplishment, in a strange sort of way... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist meditation that Vaj characterizes as effortless admonishes people to be vigilant in not letting oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of effort and control... Am I to ignore his own description of what he teaches? BTW, the people whom I *DO* trust to get it ala TM say things like the Way that can be spoken is not the Constant Way. Maharishi doesn't describe TM in detail either, and TM teachers are taught to be vague in describing TM in order to avoid putting expectations on people, or such is what I surmise as the reason why every official description of TM is vague: you can't really describe the practice of TM and to try actually risks destroying the practice both for the person hearing the description AND for the person attempting to make the description. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have children with severe medical problems who potentially require daily attention and supervision? I do. Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental problems myself, I am not sure that it would be healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave my home without repurcussions for my family. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. Nor am I speaking about the lack of integrity in the TMO that is so evident and definitely involves lying as in the pandit project, as in bold-faced promising recerts they would be paid as two of the most recent examples. I remain unconvinced on that point. Importing someone to cook for someone else is a very dodgey thing. There's no way to justify it using any of the green card/student visa things that I am aware of. It's conceivable that a private individual or someone on a dipolmatic passport can bring their own cook, but that's entirely different than what is going on in the case of the pundits. [...] I think it's a lot more difficult these days to teach TM without lying because everything a teacher says is belied by the lack of integrity of the organization. Where at one time, the organization could gain credence, plausibility, and a certain amount of leeway from the success of the techniques (which was, after all, what kept so many going in spite of the TMO), now the credibility of the technique(s) suffers becasue of the idiocy and lack of ethics of the organization. Idiocy, perhaps, but lack of ethics? Which context? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [...] When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have children with severe medical problems who potentially require daily attention and supervision? I do. Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental problems myself, I am not sure that it would be healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave my home without repurcussions for my family. Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. The thing is, some of us are aware that that's all they are -- excuses. You chose your priorities in life. Cool. But don't expected to be treated like someone who has paid his dues in the spiritual world if you never have. And don't expect to be treated as someone who is knowledgeable about meditation when you have only practiced one beginner's technique of meditation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers conforms precisely to your description of what you were told to teach. Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era (I learned in 73), the business about not teaching unless the student kneels isn't something that even makes sense. When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a course, someone from Spielberg's (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D video camera and wanted to film the Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started filming. I bowed my head respectfully with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that everyone else in the entire room-- with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was on oe of the larger courses)-- had fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the way around the room, threw my arms up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and knelt down... ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the flowers around to everyone again, explaining that due to a camera glitch they needed to refilm part of the Puja. They instructed us all to stand respectfully as they did the retake. I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal Of course, did the Powers That Be at the national level actually pocket the money themselves or did they make a hard-nosed business decision based on economic factors and the financial state of the TMO and what they thought they could get away with due to the good will of most TM teachers? That doesn't excuse what they did, but explains it in terms of [what they perceived of as] the higher good, rather than mere greed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [...] When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have children with severe medical problems who potentially require daily attention and supervision? I do. Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental problems myself, I am not sure that it would be healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave my home without repurcussions for my family. Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. The thing is, some of us are aware that that's all they are -- excuses. You chose your priorities in life. Cool. But don't expected to be treated like someone who has paid his dues in the spiritual world if you never have. And don't expect to be treated as someone who is knowledgeable about meditation when you have only practiced one beginner's technique of meditation. Heh. I don't think anyone is knowledgeable about TM, even MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers conforms precisely to your description of what you were told to teach. Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era (I learned in 73), the business about not teaching unless the student kneels isn't something that even makes sense. When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a course, someone from Spielberg's (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D video camera and wanted to film the Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started filming. I bowed my head respectfully with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that everyone else in the entire room-- with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was on oe of the larger courses)-- had fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the way around the room, threw my arms up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and knelt down... ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the flowers around to everyone again, explaining that due to a camera glitch they needed to refilm part of the Puja. They instructed us all to stand respectfully as they did the retake. I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I became a teacher in '73 and it was irrelevant whether the student stood, kneeled or laughed at that end of the puja. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist meditation that Vaj characterizes as effortless admonishes people to be vigilant in not letting oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of effort and control... Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit down to meditate and close eyes, maintain mindfullness to return to mantra, etc., etc.--the first stages of Shamatha (which is what I assume you are talking of) do also require effort/attention. This is typical of most intro meditation techniques and McMeditation techniques like TM are no different. *Any meditation technique that relies on a object of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* The higher stages of Shamatha practice are truly effortless in the yogic sense of that word: one decides how long to rest in samadhi and then emerges from samadhi at the end of the session. Unless you are actually familiar with the depth and breadth of meditation praxis experientially, this will not be obvious to you. So your above statement is incorrect--spiritually sheltered it would seem. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So any who disagree will be lying? There is another possiblity. Wanna guess what that is? Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite a lesson for me at the time. I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of throughout the years. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [...] When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Heh. You don't know me or anyone else who hasn't gone on the course. Do you have children, Unc? Do you have children with severe medical problems who potentially require daily attention and supervision? I do. Besides, given that I'm on medication for mental problems myself, I am not sure that it would be healthy for me to participate, even if I could leave my home without repurcussions for my family. Everyone has their excuses for why they didn't really walk the walk of their spiritual talk. The thing is, some of us are aware that that's all they are -- excuses. You chose your priorities in life. Cool. But don't expected to be treated like someone who has paid his dues in the spiritual world if you never have. That would be dues in the spiritual world as defined by Barry's Rules. There are, of course--according to Barry--no other ways to pay your dues in the spiritual world except those he defines as such. And don't expect to be treated as someone who is knowledgeable about meditation when you have only practiced one beginner's technique of meditation. As defined by Barry's Rules, of course. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, vajradhatu108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit down to meditate and close eyes, maintain mindfullness to return to mantra, etc., etc. The first effort--sitting down and closing the eyes--is irrelevant in this context. The second--maintain mindfulness to return to mantra--doesn't exist in TM, done properly. And who the heck knows what etc., etc. refers to here. Any meditation technique that relies on a object of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* Of course, it's never been established that what he said at Estes Park ever acknowledged any such thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This entire group of people who have never tried any other technique of meditation or self discovery but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet they consider themselves authoritative about the subject of meditation as a whole. None of whom, of course, are participants on this forum, given that many of the discussions here are about other techniques. snip He kept people SO spiritually sheltered and isolated that they never could become exposed to anyone who could tell them, Hey, I've listened to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are other letters? Note the hidden and unquestioned assumption here that in a series, such as the alphabet, the full series is of greater value than its initial elements by themselves. That's true, of course, in the case of the alphabet, but the metaphor may be seriously flawed when applied to the basis for techniques of awakening. As to lack of exposure, some of us have chosen to expose ourselves, outside the TM context, to a fairly wide range of what people say about the other letters. On the basis of our own experiential and intellectual understanding, we have concluded that D, E, F, etc., not only do not add anything to A, B, and C, but actually detract from the understanding (experiential as well as intellectual) of the fundamental nature and mechanics of consciousness. We think these additional letters represent a failure to grasp the significance and ramifications of A, B, and C and thus don't represent progress at all, they represent a *less* complete and, in some cases, downright incorrect understanding. A more appropriate metaphor might be the series that begins with elementary particles and ends with apparently solid objects. If knowledge of solid objects is not grounded in knowledge of elementary particles, it's not only incomplete, it's wrong, since the solidity of these objects is only apparent, not real. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 no_reply@ wrote: OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers conforms precisely to your description of what you were told to teach. Eeven allowing for Barry coming from a different era (I learned in 73), the business about not teaching unless the student kneels isn't something that even makes sense. When I went back to MUM/MIU in the mid-80's for a course, someone from Spielberg's (Lucas's?) studio had brought an experimental 3D video camera and wanted to film the Puja for MMY. They passed out flowers and started filming. I bowed my head respectfully with hands in the namaste form and then noticed that everyone else in the entire room-- with no exceptions (about 2000+ people since it was on oe of the larger courses)-- had fully kowtowed with head to floor. I glanced all the way around the room, threw my arms up at the ceiling dramatically and shrugged and knelt down... ..the next day, at another meeting, they passed the flowers around to everyone again, explaining that due to a camera glitch they needed to refilm part of the Puja. They instructed us all to stand respectfully as they did the retake. I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I became a teacher in '73 and it was irrelevant whether the student stood, kneeled or laughed at that end of the puja. I have initiated some Indian to TM. After the Puja I was standing, and they were kneeling. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:08 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite a lesson for me at the time. I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of throughout the years. Sal Helped crack me open in the end. I believed too easily. Something will replace TM or it will resurrect itself into something practical and useful later I know my experience was typical (as sad as that is). JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip This entire group of people who have never tried any other technique of meditation or self discovery but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet they consider themselves authoritative about the subject of meditation as a whole. None of whom, of course, are participants on this forum, given that many of the discussions here are about other techniques. snip He kept people SO spiritually sheltered and isolated that they never could become exposed to anyone who could tell them, Hey, I've listened to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are other letters? Note the hidden and unquestioned assumption here that in a series, such as the alphabet, the full series is of greater value than its initial elements by themselves. That's true, of course, in the case of the alphabet, but the metaphor may be seriously flawed when applied to the basis for techniques of awakening. As to lack of exposure, some of us have chosen to expose ourselves, outside the TM context, to a fairly wide range of what people say about the other letters. On the basis of our own experiential and intellectual understanding, we have concluded that D, E, F, etc., not only do not add anything to A, B, and C, but actually detract from the understanding (experiential as well as intellectual) of the fundamental nature and mechanics of consciousness. We think these additional letters represent a failure to grasp the significance and ramifications of A, B, and C and thus don't represent progress at all, they represent a *less* complete and, in some cases, downright incorrect understanding. A more appropriate metaphor might be the series that begins with elementary particles and ends with apparently solid objects. If knowledge of solid objects is not grounded in knowledge of elementary particles, it's not only incomplete, it's wrong, since the solidity of these objects is only apparent, not real. The ultimate form of this enforced ignorance I'm talking about, of course, Except, of course, as I pointed out, some of us have never paid any attention to the recommendation not to explore other traditions (as if that could ever *be* enforced on those not involved with the TMO). is when someone points out that the diehard TMer really doesn't know very much, they *admit* that they don't know very much, and then they try to make a case for not knowing very much being *superior*, It may be a matter of *what* one knows rather than *how much* one knows, a possibility that Barry's Rules are far too inflexible and doctrinaire even to consider. a position that actually makes them *better* than those who know more than they do. This would appear to be Barry's projection of his own sense of inadequacy, since nobody ever suggested such a thing. It's like listening to the George W. Bushes of spirituality. :-) :-) :-) I see a vastly closer resemblance to Bush-think in the postings of Barry and other True Non- believers than in those of the committed TMers here (in Barry's case, complete with the chronic tendency to promote knowing falsehoods, and the inability to address challenges). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditation techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. It really IS pretty amazing, isn't it? This entire group of people who have never tried any other technique of meditation or self discovery but TM, many of whom have been too afraid even to *read* about any other technique but TM, and yet they consider themselves authoritative about the subject of meditation as a whole. It's one of the things that keeps me fascinated by TMers, after all this time. I mean, you've been around the spiritual block a bit, right? Have you *ever* encountered any other group that knows as little as your standard TMer or TM teacher and yet believes that they know so much? I've always kept company with people from other organizations. Some were folks who had learned TM and looking for more and not finding it found it in other organizations. I learned a lot from them. Before learning TM I was trying other techniques. I can also say like those others I found myself wanting more but not finding in TM and moved on. I keep coming back to the teaching analogy that Maharishi used to use, in my opinion ironically. He used to speak about the kid who goes to his first day of school and learns A, B and C and then comes back and teaches his siblings A, B and C, because that's all he knows. As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, and studying directly with teachers who cover the subjects that can't be written down, I've probably encountered only seven or eight more letters of the alphabet. In this lifetime I'll never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge that is out there. My guru emphasizes this all the time that even what he knows is only a tiny part of the knowledge and it is impossible to know it all. But at the same time I've come to realize that (in my opinion) Maharishi himself was always seriously light in the loafers in terms of how much *he* knew. I honestly think that *he* was aware of only A, B and C, and knew little or nothing about the other spiritual letters of the alphabet, the other 90% of the body of spiritual knowledge. If we had a dime for every junior Hindu priest in India that knows a little or enough to teach a meditation course we'd be rich! :) They are all over the place there but most just stick close to their temples to seek enlightenment for themselves and serve their community. His genius, if it could be called that, was to convince stupid Westerners that he knew more than he did, and to keep repeating endless variations of A, B and C for forty years. Doing this, he *not only* convinced most of the people listening that they were hearing the entire alphabet of spiritual knowledge, but *also* convinced them that *they* knew more than seekers from any other tradition. He kept people SO spiritually sheltered and isolated that they never could become exposed to anyone who could tell them, Hey, I've listened to the stuff you talk about, and you never seem to get past A, B and C...don't you KNOW that there are other letters? He created an environment in which fear of drifting off the program was so strong that most of his followers don't even have any *curiosity* about learning more; they're that convinced that they already know everything that is worth learning. I've found that people from other organizations tend to treat TM folks respectfully from a distance knowing they have this 'tude. :) It's a truly amazing accomplishment, in a strange sort of way... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. This question came up during my TTC and the instruction was that we invite the student to kneel; if he doesn't, that's his choice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, and studying directly with teachers who cover the subjects that can't be written down, I've probably encountered only seven or eight more letters of the alphabet. In this lifetime I'll never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge that is out there. There's an irreconcilable difference between university and universal knowledge. Sure there are probably as many spiritual habits out there as there are people. Some of them are group habits which we call traditions. One approach is to experience as many of these group habits as possible, each with its own terminology, expressions, forms of meditation, conclusions, teachers, etc. I would call this approach the university approach, sort of like seeing how many books in the library I can read in a lifetime. The other approach is to find any technique out there which will allow the full exploration of any one object, be it a thought, a material object, a relationship, or a feeling. If there is consistent and continual transcending, a point can be reached where there is a familiarity with all objects. I would call this approach the universal approach. In my experience, the universal approach as I have defined it is without question the most satisfying. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I can tell, the entire range of know- ledge I ever read or was exposed to in the TM movement was just that -- A, B and C. Since leaving the TM movement and spending almost 30 years doing a lot of reading in other traditions, and studying directly with teachers who cover the subjects that can't be written down, I've probably encountered only seven or eight more letters of the alphabet. In this lifetime I'll never learn even a *fraction* of the knowledge that is out there. There's an irreconcilable difference between university and universal knowledge. Sure there are probably as many spiritual habits out there as there are people. Some of them are group habits which we call traditions. One approach is to experience as many of these group habits as possible, each with its own terminology, expressions, forms of meditation, conclusions, teachers, etc. I would call this approach the university approach, sort of like seeing how many books in the library I can read in a lifetime. The other approach is to find any technique out there which will allow the full exploration of any one object, be it a thought, a material object, a relationship, or a feeling. If there is consistent and continual transcending, a point can be reached where there is a familiarity with all objects. I would call this approach the universal approach. In my experience, the universal approach as I have defined it is without question the most satisfying. Many gurus call the university approach bookish or wooden knowledge and frown on it. After initiation and with practice of a technique the books might even take on different and deeper meaning that was not apparent at the superficial level. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, vajradhatu108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. That might be. However, one prominent exponent of the technique of Buddhist meditation that Vaj characterizes as effortless admonishes people to be vigilant in not letting oneself fall asleep or getting lst in thoughts, which to me, is a form of effort and control... Actually--as with TM where an effort must be taken to sit down to meditate and close eyes, maintain mindfullness to return to mantra, etc., etc.--the first stages of Shamatha (which is what I assume you are talking of) do also require effort/attention. This is typical of most intro meditation techniques and McMeditation techniques like TM are no different. *Any meditation technique that relies on a object of meditation, a mantra, the breath, etc. will by it's very nature have some subtle effort (as Mahesh acknowledged at Estes Park in regard to TM).* If MMY acknowledged that then he is wrong. The higher stages of Shamatha practice are truly effortless in the yogic sense of that word: one decides how long to rest in samadhi and then emerges from samadhi at the end of the session. Ah yes, the Decider. Truely an effortless thing. GW Bush the Indescribable? Unless you are actually familiar with the depth and breadth of meditation praxis experientially, this will not be obvious to you. So your above statement is incorrect--spiritually sheltered it would seem. Thanks for your kind correction. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. One can guess: if prospective student won't kneel, tell him he won't learn (thereby destroying the moment of piety that is supposed to be part of the ceremony, but nevermind). If he then kneels, teach him. If he still won't kneel, throw him out. If he threatens to sue, teach him, but report him to National... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm glad you got your credit redeemed, John, sorry that it took such an effort and that you were treated so shabbily. Experiences like yours pretty are pretty much along the lines of others I have heard of throughout the years. Sal Says Sal missing the fact that others didn't have those experiences. I've no doubt that the TMO has pulled many a fast one over the years, but not everyone has had teh same experience, even within the same time frame, or so it seems. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip I find it hard to believe that ANY TM teacher was ever instructed to require his/her students to kneel or they wouldn't be taught, not even the Indian ones teaching in India. I'm also wondering what the instructions could have been for implementing this rule. What would the teacher say to the prospective student at this point? What would happen if the student objected to being told s/he wasn't going to be taught? There must have been a whole script for dealing with the situation. One can guess: if prospective student won't kneel, tell him he won't learn (thereby destroying the moment of piety that is supposed to be part of the ceremony, but nevermind). If he then kneels, teach him. If he still won't kneel, throw him out. If he threatens to sue, teach him, but report him to National... Sure, but I wanna see the *script*. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? I know of one documented case in the movement. With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not more common among believers: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. It caused a weird cult of people accepting it around the time of Marcus Garvey. Nice topic! Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. defending everything you've been told by Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. And what you're upset about is that some of the TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Woof. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... Face it, dude...your whole life revolves around spending hours a day on this forum and on a.m.t. defending everything you've been told by Maharishi and the TMO as if it were The Truth. And what you're upset about is that some of the TM teachers are now telling you that it WASN'T The Truth -- it was just the lie they were taught to tell you in that type of situation. Believe it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Name three such things, please. Just three. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. Name three such things, please. Just three. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Name three such things, please. Just three. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. So... Examples please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. Cite three of these lies, please. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. Cite three of these lies, please. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. (That won't be Berry, though.) He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. Cite three of these fantasies, please. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. Speaking for myself, I'll withhold judgment until someone is willing to cite specifics rather than vague generalities. P.S.: Especially when the person spouting the vague generalities is a well-documented chronic liar himself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Nothing compared to the issues found in people who practice Kundalini techniques. How many TMers grab butcher knives and castrate themselves? I know of one documented case in the movement. With the popular teacher Jesus advocating it, I am surprised it is not more common among believers: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. It caused a weird cult of people accepting it around the time of Marcus Garvey. Nice topic! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the recertified teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Curtis! That's way interesting. The Finnish translation is, to say the least, rather lame; something like those, who have chosen not to marry. The Latin goes like qui se ipsos castraverunt... (those who castrate themselves), and the German die sich selbst verschnitten haben um des Himmelreichs willen. Thanks for the follow up. The Latin is even scarier especially considering Catholic's long reliance on that language. I like the Finnish dodge which is the current way to make the problem go away. That is does not make sense in the statement does not matter to believers. There is only one path to making oneself a eunuch! Anymore insights on the original words is appreciated. If it is all clear in Aramaic that would be interesting. From the Wikipedia article on eunuch: Non-castrated eunuchs There is much evidence indicating that ancient and medieval cultures used the term eunuch much differently than we do today. In the compendium of ancient Roman civil law created by Justinian I in the 6th century known as the Digest or Pandects, eunuchs are characterized as not diseased or defective and as physically capable of procreation (Digest 21.1.6.2) -- that is, unless they are missing a necessary part of their anatomy (D 21.1.7). This implies that some eunuchs are anatomically whole. The word eunuch is said to be a general designation that includes eunuchs by nature as well as those who have suffered some kind of physical injury (D 50.16.128). Eunuchs are also distinguished from castrati in the Roman laws: eunuchs, if not castrated, were eligible to marry women (D 23.3.39.1), institute posthumous heirs (D 28.2.6), and adopt children (Institutions of Justinian 1.11.9), while castrati were excluded from all of these rights. In her essay Living in the Shadows: Eunuchs and Gender in Byzantium, Kathryn M. Ringrose demonstrates how eunuch societies included not only castrated men but also homosexuals, transgenders, ascetics, celibates and a wide range of men who were technically impotent or disinterested in women for a wide range of reasons. In India, for instance, a recent study (Citation Needed) of eunuchs revealed that only 8% were actually castrated and less than 1% were intersexed (hermaphroditic). The vast majority of the Indian eunuchs studied were either effeminate homosexual men or crossdressing transgenders, causing many historians to wonder if a similar reality existed in other eunuch cultures around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunuch In other words, the Greek term translated eunuch, while it literally meant bed-keeper, referring to castrated men who guarded a ruler's bed chamber, was commonly used to mean simply a man who did not have sex with women. In that light, have another look at the Bible verse: Matthew 19:12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. The first appears to refer to men who are biologically and/or psychologically incapable of having sex with women (including, perhaps, gay men, as well as those who are impotent); the second to castrated (including self- castrated) men (perhaps also men who were not permitted to marry or even those who were sterile); and the third to men who were voluntarily celibate. It's interesting to note that in the Book of Daniel are these verses (1:3-4): The king spoke to Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring in certain of the children of Israel, even of the seed royal and of the nobles; youths in whom was no blemish, but well-favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and endowed with knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability to stand in the king's palace; and that he should teach them the learning and the language of the Chaldeans. The master of the king's eunuchs was asked to choose from among his charges young Jewish men in whom was no blemish. This obviously cannot refer to castrated men, yet they were called eunuchs. It's also important, as with virtually any Bible text, to look at the *context* (Matthew 19:1-11), in which Jesus is responding to a question concerning Moses, who sent his wife away so as not to be distracted in his mission of leading his people to the Promised Land. Jesus' disciples suggest that in such a situation-- nominally a divorce, which Jesus has just said is against God's law--it would be better not to marry at all. Jesus then goes on to deliver the teaching about eunuchs (Matthew 19:12), essentially asserting that not all men are *called* to be in a traditional marriage. In that context, eunuch clearly refers to those men who do not marry and have children, not just to those incapable of having sex with women,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Yeah, that is really taking one(or two) for the team! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: With a history of Castrati singers man's casual attitude towards another man's manhood is dark. This verse inspired a whole cult which swept through prisons in the South US to take him at his word. I am looking for the reference to those guys. The Heaven's Gate cult was a recent example of a castration cult. I guess I got off easy with TM! Maybe you just got out before it started being a requirement, eh? Haven't you noticed that a lot of the recertified teachers talk in a somewhat high, effeminate voice? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird - and some is of course healthy also - . I know one from Purusha that is not able to meditate more than a few minutes - the Sidhi-techniques is out of question. One from Mother Divine stopped with TM. The healthies ones, as I see it, is the people that have had a good balance between TM and Activity and balanced food - enjoying life outside meditation. Ingegerd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Of course the many examples of MMY himself lieing his ass off are also forgiven to preserve the perfect daddy guru. It is an interesting that this is not a topic most teachers would touch. Unless they never ran a center or taught long, they know better. The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. He asked me how can a spiritual group make a boldface lie like that, connecting its spiritual facade with even the lowest grade of ethics. Funny that Spraig should bring this up as the ultimate credibility challenge to me, that I claimed to have been taught to lie for MMY! What a joke. So... When were you taught to lie? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... OK, so the TM orgnizatio engages in shoddy, dishonest, even reprehensible business practices. That's a far cry from what Curtis was talking about to Skolnick. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. We have both been down this road before. Yup. I'll be interested to see how many, if any, of the other teachers on this forum are willing to mention some of the many ways in which they were instructed to tell lies by the TMO. It's possible that some will, but equally possible that this subject will be met with a complete and stony silence. :-) I'd be willing to bet that (as usual) it'll be the people who never had the balls to become teachers them- selves who will be screaming that we're liars and that *they* know the real truth about what TM teachers did and didn't do. Those who actually *did* become teachers, and actually taught, will probably either agree with us or remain silent... So any who disagree will be lying? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie. And this is Sparaig, who *still* hasn't gotten that what this admission means, if true, is that *his* teachers were taught to lie to *him*. I can think of dozens of instances in which I, as a TM teacher, was instructed to lie. About half of them were during my TTC, in terms of how to answer certain embarrassing questions, and the other half were while I was working for the National Center in L.A. OK. So howabout examples... No time today to do the subject justice, and probably no interest in doing it later in the week when things are less busy. I'll give you one example of the latter type of lie, the ones while working at National. After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. Interesting since I knew plenty of people who never knkelt and were still taught. In my latter days of learning advanced techniques, including when I took one from Neil Patterson, I didn't kneel and yet was still taught... about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. My little adventure was with National in DC when we were fixing-up the hotel on Purusha and I was in charge of housekeeping. I was in on the meeting when two people on national staff tricked a vaccum cleaner salesman into lending us about a dozen very high-end commercial vaccum cleaners ($1000.00 each) for the weekend. They essentially told him they were going to buy the vaccum cleaners but they had absolutely no intention of doing so. We used them for about 72 hours straight. They got very trashed and banged-up and then on Monday he came to collect his check and was told that we weren't interested in buying them. I was livid but the two National Staff guys told me to calm down. Real sleaze bag ethics. The TMO, behaind the scenes is replete with deception. And of course that grand daddy of them all: THE PUNDIT PROJECTS!!! Not one f*cking cent has gone towards bringing pundits to the US. Rationalize and double speak all you want, but it an outright con job orchestrated by MMY. TMO sleazy, or in some cases simply hardball business methods (not a crime, and done by many businesses -- MMY was a very hard and creative negotiator -- a postive trait in many businesses) is quite a different thing from what TM / SIMS teachers were taught to do when teaching. The latter is what I understand is the issue. Becasue MMY negotiated hard for hotels and vegetables (some funny stories), and later some real deceit and scams occurred on the organizational / Int'l levels, is not support for the assertion that SIMS teachers were systematically taught how to lie in their teaching intro courses. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Peter wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a few quick replies, even though we ALL know she'll do nothing with them but nitpick and claim Why those aren't really lies...they're just an alternative way of saying things. :-) :-) :-) It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the puja? Several: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. I never heard such questions asked and doubt they ever were. about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, What was the lie you were taught to tell about whether or not people were asked to kneel during the puja? -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. Never heard this asked either. However, when I learned, I did not kneel and was taught anyway, and I know many others for whom that was the case. about the number of mantras and how they were selected, What was the lie you were taught to tell about the number of mantras and how they were selected? -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. I never heard this question answered directly, either truthfully or with the hint Barry suggests. In any case, typically the question was How many mantras are there? not How many mantras are used in TM? -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. When I learned TM in 1976 and ever since, when that question was asked, what I heard was that the criteria were objective, period. There was never any suggestion as to the *number* of criteria. But we were told it was a very simple process. I'll let other teachers add their own if they care to. So far, every one of the teachers who has responded, with the sole exception of Curtis, has flatly contradicted Barry's assertion. I will not respond in any way to any of Judy's expected (and inevitable attempts) to turn this into another of her infinite argument sessions. Even if she has no life, I do, and it is calling this week. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: My guess is that TM teachers in the 60's and 70's were heavy into drugs before deciding to become TM teachers. and that THAT is what all the legends spring from: super-heavy unstressing of heavy dopers. Detox isn't pretty. Good dog. Blame the victim two more times and you'll earn the True Believer merit badge. :-) Just for fun - I went through the list of TM-Teachers and Purushas and Mother Divine that I know from Norway. It was really a sad thing. A good number got cancer - some mental illnesses - some suicide - some really weird Can you say Schaedenfreude, boys and girls? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for pitching in Turq. As we both know, there are no number of examples that will be considered proof. And if one believer teacher comes up to lie to protect daddy MMY, that will be considered the final word. Four so far have contradicted you and Barry: Shemp, new morning, Mark Reavis, and MDixon. So you're claming that these four are believer teachers who are lying to protect daddy MMY. snip The original quote Spraig brought up came from a guy from JAMA who had been lied to by the movement, Chopra at the time, on the disclosure of business relationships to their study. Skolnick did not tell you anything remotely like the whole story, Curtis. You might even say that by telling you misleading fractional truths, he lied to you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has been trying to portray me and several other people on this forum as liars for YEARS, to find that most posters still like us better than they like her. :-) And that they still read our posts and chuckle over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. Me, I think it's really funny. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: It's hugely ironic for Barry, who is a documented chronic, incorrigible liar, to take such a tough stance on people who say things not quite the way he would say them and declare them to be liars. And it must be frustrating for Judy, who has been trying to portray me and several other people on this forum as liars for YEARS, Correction: who has been *documenting* that you are liars for years. to find that most posters still like us better than they like her. :-) Unlike Barry, I don't care whether posters like me or not. And that they still read our posts and chuckle over many of them, whereas they killfile hers. The *overwhelming* majority of posters here read and respond to my posts. It must drive her crazy at night. Sorry. Crazier. I suspect it's Barry who is driven crazy at night by the recognition that his long campaign to have others killfile me has failed miserably. Me, I think it's really funny. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teachers were taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I was never taught that on my TTC. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear that Judy has never *had* that desire to help others, so I don't think it would ever have become relevant. All she's ever been interested in is sucking attention. All she'll EVER be interested in is sucking attention. It's just who she is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Remember: this is the guy who told Andrew Skolnick that TM teacherwere taught to lie Was it your experience of TTC that leads you to challenge that statement about what teachers were taught? Other teachers of TM want to weigh in? Were you taught to lie? Absolutely. About the contents of the puja, about whether or not people were asked to kneel during it, about the number of mantras and how they were selected, and about certain hot button subjects that were likely to come up in lectures or in interviews. For the latter, we were taught pat answers to use in each situation, answers that in many cases we knew not to be true. We were also taught things to say about other forms of meditation (that most of us had never practiced) that were 1) negative and 2) not true. But Sparaig won't believe this, and he similarly won't believe any other TM teacher who chimes in and answers his question with a hearty Yes. He's interested in perpetuating his fantasies that what he was told was Truth, not in realizing that many of the things he was told were calculated lies. The biggest lie I can think of was the notion that the TM technique comes from the Shankaracharya which they claim it does not. I think that annoys most TM teachers I know. Whether MMY made it up or found it in an ancient text he owes it to his teachers the real source of the techniques. For those who live a spiritually sheltered life and are not aware there are many methods of teaching the public yogic meditation among them methods based on astrology, ayurveda, favorite deity and Hindu stages of life. Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't know about Sparaig, but it seems clear that Judy has never *had* that desire to help others, so I don't think it would ever have become relevant. Of course, that's only clear in Barry's increasingly sick mind. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: [...] Who they? Annoop Chandola was taught to meditate by Swami Shantananda Saraswati, and he's under the impression that he learned TM or something extremely similar to it. TM is not that unique in its process. It is called yogic meditation in other circles. The actual use of the bijas particularly without OM is what is considered unorthodox. From what I've seen of how people describe other purportedly simple and easy meditatio techniques, very few are actually simple and easy. All that says is you haven't seen very much. Hence my term spirituality sheltered. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. Even if I had, I would have approved them for TTC because 1) it wasn't my *job* to make judgments like that, 2) seemingly unlike my fellow teachers, I never believed I was *capable* of making such judgments, and 3) I honestly think that the best thing Maharishi ever did was to give a few people the oppor- tunity to become teachers. They (we) weren't ready for it, they (we) were not adequately trained to do the job, and they (we) made lots of mistakes as they (we) tried to do the job. But at the same time we got to learn a lot, and to help a few people, and to exper- ience what it feels like to put your ego aside and work for the benefit of others. That smooths many rough edges. I'd give almost anyone who sincerely desired it that opportunity, rather than be the person who stood in their way. I mean, just look at the alternative, all the people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. So when I met someone who *was* actually willing to walk their talk and *do* something like becoming a TM teacher, I was NOT going to be the one to stand in their way. Think of the alternative, those people who never even *aspired* to become teachers. Look -- every day on this forum -- at how their lives turned out, and what they turned into. I like to think that the people I approved for TTC turned out better. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I mean, just look at the alternative, all the people on this forum who pretend to be spiritual and pretend to be gung-ho TMers, but who couldn't walk their talk on a bet. When are you *ever* going to see a Nablus showing up for a course, or a Sparaig, or a Peter Klutz, or a Judy Stein? Speaking for myself, you'll see me showing up for a course when it's possible for me to do so. They just talk. That's all they'll EVER do. Even now, when someone is willing to *pay* them to put their walk where their talk is and go on a course, they won't do it. They'll just talk. Has nothing to do with money, in my case. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Neither Sparaig nor Judy Stein ever attended TTC. The things they parrot here as if they were Great Cosmic Truths are things that were taught to them by people just like us, who had been trained to lie to them by giving them Pat Answer A (Lie A) whenever a certain subject (Example of Critical Thought A) came up. Because they're the kinds of people who *long* to be told that they know The Truth, they chose to believe everything they were told. The more they believed, the more they thought they knew. Now when former TM teachers suggest that some of the things they were told were NOT the truth, they freak out. It's understandable. Don't take their hostility personally. We are challenging their most cherished fantasies. OF COURSE they're going to hate it -- and us -- when we do so. Would you have approved them for a TTC? I approved everyone who ever applied at the centers I worked at. Several of them were blackballed by other teachers, for greivous sins like reading off-the-program books, living together while unmarried, being gay, etc., but I always thought that the desire to do something for others should be supported. So you never had anyone who was considered a loose cannon or unstable? I seem to recall several from my center who were turned down at the center level because they were that way. I think it was you who wanted to know of the organization that helps people who have overwhelming and/or psychotic experiences as a result of meditdation or another spiritual practice. Grof and Grof wrote a book called Spiritual Emergency and I believe their website is www.realization.com I do not know what happens when you contact them or who replies. You can also Google spritual emergency and get some info. That link is a training management firm. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. Nor am I speaking about the lack of integrity in the TMO that is so evident and definitely involves lying as in the pandit project, as in bold-faced promising recerts they would be paid as two of the most recent examples. But as far as teaching goes, my experience is closer to how new.moring describes it. Comments below to some of the specifics that Barry talks mentions though: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: -- When asked, Are the names of any Hindu gods mentioned in the puja? -- answer No. This is obviously not true. We were never told to say no if the question comes up. We were instructed to use the example of doctors taking the hypocratic oath to aphrodite and all the gods--A comparable level of relevance. -- When asked, Are the words 'I bow down' included in the puja, and does the teacher actually bow to any of the names mentioned? -- answer No. This is equally not true. We were never told this. Not to say that Barry wasn't, but we weren't. -- When asked, Is the TM puja a Hindu ritual? -- answer No. In reality, it is a hodge-podge of different verses from *many* different Hindu pujas and rituals. We were never told this either. The question didn't come up. Different era perhaps. -- When asked, Is it mandatory for the student to kneel during initiation? -- answer No. HOWEVER, in the explicit instructions given to me and other TM teachers I know when we were made teachers, we were epxlicitly told to never teach the person UNLESS they knelt. This is something we were definitely not told. Nor is it something I have ever even heard before. I'm curious now if this was a common instruction during that time. -- When asked, How many mantras are used in TM, we were told never to answer this question, but to hint that there were very many...dozens or more. We were never told to hint at any numbers at all, just to say--if pushed--we don't discuss that except in the context of teacher training. -- When asked, How are they selected? we were told never to say exactly how, but to imply that they were selected based on a large number of different criteria known to us as TM teachers. In fact, there is only one criterion. Set criteria; information on the interview form As new morning said, there is spin involved, sure. There is also ideology, belief, and paradigm. Those things can shift over time. It doesn't make one a retrospective liar to have believed something, or have believed in something. Again, I don't know what anyone else's experience on TTC was. I'm not saying others weren't told those things, only that we weren't. I think it's a lot more difficult these days to teach TM without lying because everything a teacher says is belied by the lack of integrity of the organization. Where at one time, the organization could gain credence, plausibility, and a certain amount of leeway from the success of the techniques (which was, after all, what kept so many going in spite of the TMO), now the credibility of the technique(s) suffers becasue of the idiocy and lack of ethics of the organization. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Peter wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: After my period as a State Coordinator, I was asked to take over Barney Potratz's job at National while he was away on his sidhis course. So for a few months I was asked to lie to employees there at National on pretty much a weekly basis, and to potential employees (the people I was interviewing) on pretty much a daily basis. Most of the lies had to do with the mythical course credit. When each of these existing employees had signed on, they had been told in explicit terms how much credit they would be earning each month towards ATR or TTC or their Sidhis course. Each of the new employees I was interviewing was told the same thing. But about the time I arrived, the higher ups (meaning, in this case, probably International Staff decided that they couldn't afford this any more, and thus had no intention of ever giving *any* of these people eve a penny towards any course. I was forbidden to tell them this. The way it worked was that when an employee applied to take the course they had been working towards, they were taken into an office and told that they had received no credit, and that this was a new policy that was a surprise to the person telling them this. (I never had to be the person who did this; I wouldn't have been able to pull it off.) If the employee spoke up about being ripped off, they were fired on the spot. After a couple of months of this, I quit and went to my own course, which fortunately I had enough money to pay for myself, and which even more fortunately turned out to be my last with the TM movement ever. This is just one example of how we were told to lie to people. There are many others. If the TM teachers here are honest, I'm sure they will come up with a few examples of their own... I honestly can't and have no clue what you're talking about...and, hey, I've got ALOT of complaints about the TMO and MMY but your litany is foreign to me. If you worked on National or International staff this type of behavior was quite common. We posted alot about it several years ago. I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hermandan0 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I'll jump in here, not for the sake of being argumentative, but just to relate my experience. I became a teacher much later than all of you pioneers, so I cannot speak to what you might have been told on your courses. What I, as a student, heard from TM teachers conforms precisely to your description of what you were told to teach. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite a lesson for me at the time. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
John, I had a front row seat for the fact that you were a sincere guy trying to do the right thing and support the World Plan of MMY. The fact that they screwed you over is on them, not you. I admire your dedication to your own experience. Because I was close enough to see some of it up close, your story moves me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 19, 2006, at 8:00 PM, jyouells2000 wrote: I've heard about thispolicy numerous times. What I don't understand is why nobody ever threatened to sue the SOBs. That's deception, pure and simple. Sal I used the word 'attorney' in a letter about an ATR credit refund and it got me blacklisted from courses for around 10 years even though I was a center chairman the whole time. I did get the money national promised me though. Yep, words like that usually work wonders with people intending to deceive. Sal I was naive. Supporting the center out of my own pocket. I had a signed agreement with the TMO for the return of ATR credit in cash. I fulfilled my obligation and they did not want to fulfill theirs. It was a friendly letter. They wanted to keep the refund that they promised, and keep the income that the local center generated. They were spiteful and coercive. They accepted everyone I sent to TTC, siddhis, advanced techniques etc, but I could not get on a residence course. I went an advanced technique. I was there first, but they taught about 300 before me, saying that they could not verify that I was a meditator. Even though they were teaching people that I initiated. At the end of a long day *my* initiator walked in and they finally taught me last. I stopped applying to courses after that. About 10 years later they asked me to come to a DC course and I told 'em I wanted an acceptance in writing, in advance. They actually sent it. By then, they just wanted the money. All this over $1100. Quite a lesson for me at the time. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is movement royalty and that has its advantages. The rest of the world would be a hard reality to face at this point I imagine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. That's great to hear; she must have gotten good treatment where she was hospitalized. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Yeah! Rich, starchy Movement food! --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. Well, then, in the non-8-hours in the Dome and the non-8-hours she is sleeping, have Little Debbie visit us here on this forum and tell us what life is like for her. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is movement royalty Does she get to have her weight in gold like the King did? and that has its advantages. The rest of the world would be a hard reality to face at this point I imagine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From a friend: rick, noticed the d.henning posts on fflife...i've been told she's staying in vedic city right now and doing the course...been out of the hospital for awhile...apparently gave a lot of money to the tmo but not all of it. Sounds Like Judy was right: was a depressiona thing after Doug died, not her family's decision to take her out of circulation (which is how theoriginal post sounded). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The movement is probably the most supportive environment for her socially. All the rounding may be destabilizing, but she is movement royalty Does she get to have her weight in gold like the King did? Is she a research scientist? Tony Nader's weight in gold was a publicity gimmick. He got that much money as a research grant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In fact all the cases of madness from TM that I know about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long program? She's going to relapse again if someone doesn't know what they are doing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In fact all the cases of madness from TM that I know about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long program? She's going to relapse again if someone doesn't know what they are doing. Well you had best immediately call the psychiatrists who diagnosed her, had her under her daily supervision and monitoring, and then deemed her able to go back to world and TMO stuff, and tell them, that you read an internet chat forum about Debbie and tell them, your diagnosis is TOTALY wrong and inappropriate! Distance ritam diagnoses are a wonderful thing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In fact all the cases of madness from TM that I know about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long program? She's going to relapse again if someone doesn't know what they are doing. It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A number of other cases as i recall. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning -- keep anonymous
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning -- keep anonymous on 9/18/06 1:59 PM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone Jessamine Verrill -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. No. in the courtyard at Pac Pal. Not for the reason you said. My wife was there. Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Swedish. Sten Sjostead (sp?) Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A student. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
new.morning wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A number of other cases as i recall. In my tradition we do not get lay people shakti mantras for this very reason. It is felt that they often cannot handle them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
Peter wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. In fact all the cases of madness from TM that I know about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get commited for psychotic symtoms. These can accompany severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that diagnosis. What th f*ck is she doing on a long program? She's going to relapse again if someone doesn't know what they are doing. Peter, the ayurvedic physician I had in the Bay Area back in the 1990's (has since moved out of the area) was a psychiatrist who was very into treating psychosis from meditation especially for TM'ers and tipped me to an organization and their website for practitioners who treat these disorders. I can't remember the organization and obviously its website, do you know about it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: It'll take at least one more Levi-Butler-type episode to get the TMO to institute guidelines. Probably three or four. Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A number of other cases as i recall. What's the average freakout rate among the normal population? And how does it compare to the freakout rate among TMers as a whole? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: If Debbie became psychotic the very last thing she needs is a long program! She needs to place her attention 100% in the relative and not drift off into some mental laya. Exercise, activity that fully engages her mind and FOOD. Who said she was ever psychotic? I can almost (almost) assure you that she has/had symptoms of psychosis, the most common psychological disorder from too much TM and TM-siddhis program. Especially in people who have just lost their spouse, right? In fact all the cases of madness from TM that I know about are experiences of psychosis. Also, you only get commited for psychotic symtoms. Definition of Psychosis Psychosis: In the general sense, a mental illness that markedly interferes with a person's capacity to meet life's everyday demands. In a specific sense, it refers to a thought disorder in which reality testing is grossly impaired. Symptoms can include seeing, hearing, smelling, or tasting things that are not there; paranoia; and delusional thoughts. Depending on the condition underlying the psychotic symptoms, symptoms may be constant or they may come and go. Psychosis can occur as a result of brain injury or disease, and is seen particularly in schizophrenia and bipolar disordersDiagnosis is by observation and interview. http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5110 These can accompany severe mood disorders, but I doubt Debbie had that diagnosis. You don't think she could have been clinically depressed? Would a suicide attempt be enough to have someone committed? Also, when someone is committed, as I understand it, it's because they aren't willing or able to sign themselves into the hospital. The original quote from Rick Ross's board says her parents had her admitted, not committed. That may be simply imprecise use of terminology; or it may reflect that her parents convinced (or pressured) her to sign herself in. It's possible she was clear-headed enough (if she were seriously depressed, say) to recognize that her parents were right and that she needed to be hospitalized (in which case she would not have had to have been psychotic per se). Because her parents apparently played a major role, we're assuming they went through the full-dress legal procedure and therefore that she must have been psychotic. But that's on the basis of an at least second-hand informal report, something the person says she was told (no source mentioned). The last three sentences of that post give a pretty clear idea of this person's agenda: The Inside TM-myth about Debbie's condition, 'Doug and Debbie were soul mates. They were totally connected as one soul in two bodies. When Doug died, Debbie no longer had a purpose for living' In reality, IMHO, once the guru got the bucks.. he had no further use for her. The individuality was erroded [sic] so slowly insidiously. The highly honored devotees at the top (of any cultic group) totally surrendered their sense of self to the leader.. It certainly sounds as though the Inside TM-myth is that Debbie was depressed, as I suggested. (I suspect that if she surrendered her sense of self to anybody, it was to Henning himself.) In any case, I wouldn't put it past this person to try to make it sound as though her illness were *so* bad her parents had to commit her, without actually using the term committed. This person may have no idea of the circumstances, and hence neither do we. What th f*ck is she doing on a long program? She's going to relapse again if someone doesn't know what they are doing. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Debbie Henning -- keep anonymous
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/18/06 1:59 PM, new.morning at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Barbara Wallace (Keith's first wife) shot someone Jessamine Verrill -- during flying session i think -- for being too loud. No. in the courtyard at Pac Pal. Not for the reason you said. My wife was there. How badly injured were they? Did they die? Is this the mother of the Wallace kids (around 25-30 now) who were onced featured on an TMO tape with MMY (two boys)? Norwegian ? purusha set him self on fire. Swedish. Sten Sjostead (sp?) Did he die? Some or someone threw them selves of FF RR tracks. A student. What happened to him? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
