[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-27 Thread Ingegerd
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/26/06 2:37 AM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   He had success -
   Millions of people learned TM - but that did not last - 
because the
   foundation was weak (wrong), built on many lies and broken 
promises.
   We see the result now. If he had been honest, without fear, 
not so
   many had learned TM - but it would have been a much more 
healthier
   Organisation - more lasting - more blissfull.
 
 I liked all your points but disagree that not as many would have 
learned TM.
 I think more would have, one of the reasons being that more would 
have
 stayed with it, and recommended it to others.

You are probably right about that.
Ingegerd








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-26 Thread Ingegerd
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, geezerfreak 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@
 wrote:
 
  Turquoise welcome back ...
  Somebody high-ranking in the TMO asked me some time back, 
whether I 
  would like him to act on my behalf, to get myself back in favour.
  I asked why.
  He seemed puzzled at my question, but hesitantly mumbled 
something 
  about 'getting the knowledge that Maharishi is giving out' (sic).
  Well, I was left puzzled, and am still puzzled.
  I thought that, according the TM dictum, all you needed to do 
was to 
  learn TM, which I had, and all else will be added unto you, 
which to 
  some extent it has. What would I need to do cosying up to 
someone who 
  would sweettalk me into an organisation that has black lists, 
and 
  doesn't even feel open enough to reprint the satsangs of 
its 'guiding 
  light' - Guru Dev? 
  
  Is that cos Guru Dev is competition too

I have had some thoughts about that. If MMY who is saying that he 
tried to be like Guru Dev - read his mind - walked in his footsteps -
 had lived like Guru Dev - it would have been a different TMO. If 
MMY had given out exactly what Guru Dev said - (I know your quotes, 
Paul), it would have been very obvious that MMYs teaching is 
different from Guru Devs teaching in many ways. Like - if you take 
money to give out Mantras, you come to Hell etc. etc. 
I think MMY is aware of that he is fooling people in the West 
around, and that is why he is so strong about not to see other 
Gurus. With more knowledge and logical thinking, we are able to see 
tha Black Holes in MMYs teaching. He has to protect himself and what 
he has done - that is were all his fear comes from. He had success - 
Millions of people learned TM - but that did not last - because the 
foundation was weak (wrong), built on many lies and broken promises. 
We see the result now. If he had been honest, without fear, not so 
many had learned TM - but it would have been a much more healthier  
Organisation - more lasting - more blissfull. 
Ingegerd
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@
   wrote:
   
Why is john Hagelin a coward???
What is he afraid of???

...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!

Why is john Hagelin a coward???
What is he afraid of???

...answer this
   
   Ah, a perfect opportunity to re-emerge after my shorter-
   than-expected vacation. 
   
   It's been fascinating being away from the fray, traveling
   about and being around normal people most of the time. :-)
   
   On returning from my Road Trip, I spent about an hour 
   catching up, and I thank those who encouraged me to stick
   around. I've decided to take you up on the offer, at least
   for a little while, and with some self-imposed restrictions.
   I plan to spend a maximum of 20 minutes a day :-) reading 
   FFL, and then to do so very, very selectively, reading only 
   what catches my eye, and avoiding those posters whom time 
   has proven a waste of time. If I post, it will be as an 
   exercise in writing, not as a prelude to or an invitation 
   to argue. 
   
   One of the spiritual teachers I worked with used to say, 
   Writers write because they're trying to figure things out. 
   For the record, that's all I'm doing...trying to figure 
   things out. These raps are not my idea of What Is True, 
   and I'm not trying to sell the ideas in them to anyone 
   or convince anyone that they're true or right.  
   
   I post the comments as what they are, Just My Opinion. I 
   will not respond to any comments others make about them, 
   and to be honest can't even promise to read the followups,
   if there are any. Unlike many of the people here, I don't 
   really feel any need to defend my opinions as anything other 
   than what they are -- just my opinions, made at a particular
   point in time, possibly changing at another point in time. 
   If others want to comment on them, that's their business. 
   The posts themselves are the only comments I have to offer.
   
   Here's the first of them:
   
   
   
   Reading some of the FFL posts from the last month, pretty 
   much at random, I came across a few (both the opinions of
   FFL regulars and quotes from others in the TMO) that 
   suggest to me that TM has degenerated into a path in 
   which the few lingering True Believers are acting out 
   of a profound fear of CC.
   
   No, not Cosmic Consciousness. I'm talking about Cosmic 
   Cooties.
   
   Over the decades, the TM faithful have been told, by 
   Maharishi directly and by those he trained to parrot his 
   words, that certain things in life contain Cosmic Cooties, 
   and that to come in contact with these things is to chance 
   getting the cooties on yourself. 
   
   To doubt the infallible Truth of 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-26 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 I have had some thoughts about that. If MMY who is saying
 that he tried to be like Guru Dev - read his mind - walked
 in his footsteps - had lived like Guru Dev - it would have
 been a different TMO. If MMY had given out exactly what Guru
 Dev said - (I know your quotes, Paul), it would have been
 very obvious that MMYs teaching is different from Guru Devs
 teaching in many ways. Like - if you take money to give out 
 Mantras, you come to Hell etc. etc.

Or, that Guru Dev's teaching was deeply and explicitly
religious and specifically Hindu in nature, whereas MMY
wanted to teach something everyone could take advantage
of no matter what their religion (or nonreligion).

The more significant question, it seems to me, is
whether MMY teaches the core umiversal principles of
the nature and mechanics of consciousness as Guru Dev
taught them.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-26 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path





on 8/26/06 2:37 AM, Ingegerd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 He had success - 
 Millions of people learned TM - but that did not last - because the 
 foundation was weak (wrong), built on many lies and broken promises. 
 We see the result now. If he had been honest, without fear, not so 
 many had learned TM - but it would have been a much more healthier 
 Organisation - more lasting - more blissfull. 

I liked all your points but disagree that not as many would have learned TM. I think more would have, one of the reasons being that more would have stayed with it, and recommended it to others.

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-26 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
 marwincornyarmand@ wrote:
 snip
  I have had some thoughts about that. If MMY who is saying
  that he tried to be like Guru Dev - read his mind - walked
  in his footsteps - had lived like Guru Dev - it would have
  been a different TMO. If MMY had given out exactly what Guru
  Dev said - (I know your quotes, Paul), it would have been
  very obvious that MMYs teaching is different from Guru Devs
  teaching in many ways. Like - if you take money to give out 
  Mantras, you come to Hell etc. etc.
 
 Or, that Guru Dev's teaching was deeply and explicitly
 religious and specifically Hindu in nature, whereas MMY
 wanted to teach something everyone could take advantage
 of no matter what their religion (or nonreligion).
 
 The more significant question, it seems to me, is
 whether MMY teaches the core umiversal principles of
 the nature and mechanics of consciousness as Guru Dev
 taught them.


Shatananda and Vishdevananda apparently thought so.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-26 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
  marwincornyarmand@ wrote:
  snip
   I have had some thoughts about that. If MMY who is saying
   that he tried to be like Guru Dev - read his mind - walked
   in his footsteps - had lived like Guru Dev - it would have
   been a different TMO. If MMY had given out exactly what Guru
   Dev said - (I know your quotes, Paul), it would have been
   very obvious that MMYs teaching is different from Guru Devs
   teaching in many ways. Like - if you take money to give out 
   Mantras, you come to Hell etc. etc.
  
  Or, that Guru Dev's teaching was deeply and explicitly
  religious and specifically Hindu in nature, whereas MMY
  wanted to teach something everyone could take advantage
  of no matter what their religion (or nonreligion).
  
  The more significant question, it seems to me, is
  whether MMY teaches the core umiversal principles of
  the nature and mechanics of consciousness as Guru Dev
  taught them.
 
 
 Shatananda and Vishdevananda apparently thought so.


Shatananda...is that the past tense of Shitananda?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!
  
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...answer this
 
 Ah, a perfect opportunity to re-emerge after my shorter-
 than-expected vacation. 
 
 It's been fascinating being away from the fray, traveling
 about and being around normal people most of the time. :-)
 
 On returning from my Road Trip, I spent about an hour 
 catching up, and I thank those who encouraged me to stick
 around. I've decided to take you up on the offer, at least
 for a little while, and with some self-imposed restrictions.
 I plan to spend a maximum of 20 minutes a day :-) reading 
 FFL, and then to do so very, very selectively, reading only 
 what catches my eye, and avoiding those posters whom time 
 has proven a waste of time. If I post, it will be as an 
 exercise in writing, not as a prelude to or an invitation 
 to argue. 
 
 One of the spiritual teachers I worked with used to say, 
 Writers write because they're trying to figure things out. 
 Big Snip  

 COOTIES RULE. Doubt and curiosity are the cornerstones 
 of a successful spiritual practice. Hate them and you 
 end up hating yourself, and spirituality itself.
 
 


Man, must have been a GOOD vacation. (Good clear info, smooth
transistions in emotional theme, and acronyms - FOCos, LOL!)
Good to see you back. 

JohnY





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
 the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
 *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
 infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
 evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
 the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
 awaits them.

The impression I have from the reports here is
that people who have seen other saints *are*
allowed to participate in the course if they
sign a statement vowing never to do so again.

Not good, obviously, but at least the TMO seems to
believe in the possibility of redemption.

snip
 I suggest all of this as a way to help the more 
 balanced posters here feel more compassion for some 
 of the more strident voices among them. The angrier 
 these voices get, the more they demonize others who 
 think for themselves and are honest about their doubts 
 and their extracurricular interests, the more angry 
 they really are at themselves. The more they demonize 
 these cootie-infested individuals, the more they 
 internally demonize themselves.

Funny, I've seen very little in the way of
demonizing of those with extracurricular
interests here lately.  In fact, most of the
demonizing seems to be going in the other
direction (as in this post of Barry's).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread Paul Mason
Turquoise welcome back ...
Somebody high-ranking in the TMO asked me some time back, whether I 
would like him to act on my behalf, to get myself back in favour.
I asked why.
He seemed puzzled at my question, but hesitantly mumbled something 
about 'getting the knowledge that Maharishi is giving out' (sic).
Well, I was left puzzled, and am still puzzled.
I thought that, according the TM dictum, all you needed to do was to 
learn TM, which I had, and all else will be added unto you, which to 
some extent it has. What would I need to do cosying up to someone who 
would sweettalk me into an organisation that has black lists, and 
doesn't even feel open enough to reprint the satsangs of its 'guiding 
light' - Guru Dev? 

Is that cos Guru Dev is competition too


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!
  
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...answer this
 
 Ah, a perfect opportunity to re-emerge after my shorter-
 than-expected vacation. 
 
 It's been fascinating being away from the fray, traveling
 about and being around normal people most of the time. :-)
 
 On returning from my Road Trip, I spent about an hour 
 catching up, and I thank those who encouraged me to stick
 around. I've decided to take you up on the offer, at least
 for a little while, and with some self-imposed restrictions.
 I plan to spend a maximum of 20 minutes a day :-) reading 
 FFL, and then to do so very, very selectively, reading only 
 what catches my eye, and avoiding those posters whom time 
 has proven a waste of time. If I post, it will be as an 
 exercise in writing, not as a prelude to or an invitation 
 to argue. 
 
 One of the spiritual teachers I worked with used to say, 
 Writers write because they're trying to figure things out. 
 For the record, that's all I'm doing...trying to figure 
 things out. These raps are not my idea of What Is True, 
 and I'm not trying to sell the ideas in them to anyone 
 or convince anyone that they're true or right.  
 
 I post the comments as what they are, Just My Opinion. I 
 will not respond to any comments others make about them, 
 and to be honest can't even promise to read the followups,
 if there are any. Unlike many of the people here, I don't 
 really feel any need to defend my opinions as anything other 
 than what they are -- just my opinions, made at a particular
 point in time, possibly changing at another point in time. 
 If others want to comment on them, that's their business. 
 The posts themselves are the only comments I have to offer.
 
 Here's the first of them:
 
 
 
 Reading some of the FFL posts from the last month, pretty 
 much at random, I came across a few (both the opinions of
 FFL regulars and quotes from others in the TMO) that 
 suggest to me that TM has degenerated into a path in 
 which the few lingering True Believers are acting out 
 of a profound fear of CC.
 
 No, not Cosmic Consciousness. I'm talking about Cosmic 
 Cooties.
 
 Over the decades, the TM faithful have been told, by 
 Maharishi directly and by those he trained to parrot his 
 words, that certain things in life contain Cosmic Cooties, 
 and that to come in contact with these things is to chance 
 getting the cooties on yourself. 
 
 To doubt the infallible Truth of the TM dogma is definitely 
 courting cooties. There can be no question of this -- all 
 you have to do is watch and see what happens to those in 
 the TMO who give expression to their doubts. They are 
 whisked out of sight and quarantined as quickly as a leper 
 would have been chased out of a medieval village. Doubt 
 cooties are *contagious*, after all, and you can't allow 
 those who have them to mingle among the uninfected.
 
 The other thing that definitely is infected with these 
 highly contagious cooties is being open to knowledge from 
 or representatives of other spiritual traditions. The 
 attitude could be emblazoned on a T-shirt: SEE A SAINT, 
 GET COOTIES!
 
 Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
 the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
 *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
 infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
 evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
 the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
 awaits them.
 
 I believe that this is a really sad phenomenon. Not just 
 for the organization that espouses it, but for the indi-
 vidual seekers who buy into this dogma of fear as Truth. 
 What it creates in them is a path based on self hatred, 
 because *they* have doubts, and cannot admit them. And 
 *they* are still curious about spiritual experience in 
 other traditions, and they cannot admit that, either.
 
 The True 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!
  
  Why is john Hagelin a coward???
  What is he afraid of???
  
  ...answer this
 
 Ah, a perfect opportunity to re-emerge after my shorter-
 than-expected vacation. 
 
 It's been fascinating being away from the fray, traveling
 about and being around normal people most of the time. :-)
 
 On returning from my Road Trip, I spent about an hour 
 catching up, and I thank those who encouraged me to stick
 around. I've decided to take you up on the offer, at least
 for a little while, and with some self-imposed restrictions.
 I plan to spend a maximum of 20 minutes a day :-) reading 
 FFL, and then to do so very, very selectively, reading only 
 what catches my eye, and avoiding those posters whom time 
 has proven a waste of time. If I post, it will be as an 
 exercise in writing, not as a prelude to or an invitation 
 to argue. 
 
 One of the spiritual teachers I worked with used to say, 
 Writers write because they're trying to figure things out. 
 For the record, that's all I'm doing...trying to figure 
 things out. These raps are not my idea of What Is True, 
 and I'm not trying to sell the ideas in them to anyone 
 or convince anyone that they're true or right.  
 
 I post the comments as what they are, Just My Opinion. I 
 will not respond to any comments others make about them, 
 and to be honest can't even promise to read the followups,
 if there are any. Unlike many of the people here, I don't 
 really feel any need to defend my opinions as anything other 
 than what they are -- just my opinions, made at a particular
 point in time, possibly changing at another point in time. 
 If others want to comment on them, that's their business. 
 The posts themselves are the only comments I have to offer.
 
 Here's the first of them:
 
 
 
 Reading some of the FFL posts from the last month, pretty 
 much at random, I came across a few (both the opinions of
 FFL regulars and quotes from others in the TMO) that 
 suggest to me that TM has degenerated into a path in 
 which the few lingering True Believers are acting out 
 of a profound fear of CC.
 
 No, not Cosmic Consciousness. I'm talking about Cosmic 
 Cooties.
 
 Over the decades, the TM faithful have been told, by 
 Maharishi directly and by those he trained to parrot his 
 words, that certain things in life contain Cosmic Cooties, 
 and that to come in contact with these things is to chance 
 getting the cooties on yourself. 
 
 To doubt the infallible Truth of the TM dogma is definitely 
 courting cooties. There can be no question of this -- all 
 you have to do is watch and see what happens to those in 
 the TMO who give expression to their doubts. They are 
 whisked out of sight and quarantined as quickly as a leper 
 would have been chased out of a medieval village. Doubt 
 cooties are *contagious*, after all, and you can't allow 
 those who have them to mingle among the uninfected.
 
 The other thing that definitely is infected with these 
 highly contagious cooties is being open to knowledge from 
 or representatives of other spiritual traditions. The 
 attitude could be emblazoned on a T-shirt: SEE A SAINT, 
 GET COOTIES!
 
 Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
 the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
 *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
 infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
 evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
 the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
 awaits them.
 
 I believe that this is a really sad phenomenon. Not just 
 for the organization that espouses it, but for the indi-
 vidual seekers who buy into this dogma of fear as Truth. 
 What it creates in them is a path based on self hatred, 
 because *they* have doubts, and cannot admit them. And 
 *they* are still curious about spiritual experience in 
 other traditions, and they cannot admit that, either.
 
 The True Believers who have been trained to be terrified 
 of Cosmic Cooties have also been trained to LIE -- not 
 only to the organization they belong to (which is sad 
 in itself), but to *themselves*, which is heartbreaking.
 
 *EVERYONE* who has ever pursued a spiritual path has had
 doubts. Mature spiritual traditions accept this, and 
 accept that these doubts are a natural and a positive 
 aspect of the spiritual process. They have mechanisms in 
 place so that seekers within their traditions can safely 
 express their doubts. If the doubts grow strong enough, 
 these traditions have no problem with wishing the seeker 
 well on his or her Way as they take a leave of absence 
 to explore them, and then they are always willing to 
 welcome the doubter back into the 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 snip
  Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
  the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
  *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
  infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
  evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
  the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
  awaits them.
 
 The impression I have from the reports here is
 that people who have seen other saints *are*
 allowed to participate in the course if they
 sign a statement vowing never to do so again.
 
 Not good, obviously, but at least the TMO seems to
 believe in the possibility of redemption.
 

Redemption from what? The *fallen state* of seeing other saints.  
Talk about damning with 'faint praise'. The difference between being
completely over the top and just being over the top. The words 'vow'
and 'redemption' don't belong in this path. Then again neither do
crowns and raja's. Bagpipes are another question entirely. :-) 
Things have gone so wild that all perspective has been lost.

JohnY

 snip
  I suggest all of this as a way to help the more 
  balanced posters here feel more compassion for some 
  of the more strident voices among them. The angrier 
  these voices get, the more they demonize others who 
  think for themselves and are honest about their doubts 
  and their extracurricular interests, the more angry 
  they really are at themselves. The more they demonize 
  these cootie-infested individuals, the more they 
  internally demonize themselves.
 
 Funny, I've seen very little in the way of
 demonizing of those with extracurricular
 interests here lately.  In fact, most of the
 demonizing seems to be going in the other
 direction (as in this post of Barry's).








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  snip
   Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
   the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
   *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
   infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
   evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
   the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
   awaits them.
  
  The impression I have from the reports here is
  that people who have seen other saints *are*
  allowed to participate in the course if they
  sign a statement vowing never to do so again.
  
  Not good, obviously, but at least the TMO seems to
  believe in the possibility of redemption.
 
 Redemption from what? The *fallen state* of seeing other saints.  
 Talk about damning with 'faint praise'. The difference between being
 completely over the top and just being over the top. The words 'vow'
 and 'redemption' don't belong in this path. Then again neither do
 crowns and raja's. Bagpipes are another question entirely. :-) 
 Things have gone so wild that all perspective has been lost.

I agree with you.  Redemption was meant a bit
sardonically.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
 wrote:
   snip
Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
*admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
awaits them.
   
   The impression I have from the reports here is
   that people who have seen other saints *are*
   allowed to participate in the course if they
   sign a statement vowing never to do so again.
   
   Not good, obviously, but at least the TMO seems to
   believe in the possibility of redemption.
  
  Redemption from what? The *fallen state* of seeing other saints.  
  Talk about damning with 'faint praise'. The difference between being
  completely over the top and just being over the top. The words 'vow'
  and 'redemption' don't belong in this path. Then again neither do
  crowns and raja's. Bagpipes are another question entirely. :-) 
  Things have gone so wild that all perspective has been lost.
 
 I agree with you.  Redemption was meant a bit
 sardonically.


I didn't see it at that momment, it's hard to see loopsided smiles
thru the text, sometimes. :) I've seen quite a few people get turned 
off about TM lately after looking at the websites. It's too bad.


JohnY  






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread geezerfreak
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Turquoise welcome back ...
 Somebody high-ranking in the TMO asked me some time back, whether I 
 would like him to act on my behalf, to get myself back in favour.
 I asked why.
 He seemed puzzled at my question, but hesitantly mumbled something 
 about 'getting the knowledge that Maharishi is giving out' (sic).
 Well, I was left puzzled, and am still puzzled.
 I thought that, according the TM dictum, all you needed to do was to 
 learn TM, which I had, and all else will be added unto you, which to 
 some extent it has. What would I need to do cosying up to someone who 
 would sweettalk me into an organisation that has black lists, and 
 doesn't even feel open enough to reprint the satsangs of its 'guiding 
 light' - Guru Dev? 
 
 Is that cos Guru Dev is competition too
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
  wrote:
  
   Why is john Hagelin a coward???
   What is he afraid of???
   
   ...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!
   
   Why is john Hagelin a coward???
   What is he afraid of???
   
   ...answer this
  
  Ah, a perfect opportunity to re-emerge after my shorter-
  than-expected vacation. 
  
  It's been fascinating being away from the fray, traveling
  about and being around normal people most of the time. :-)
  
  On returning from my Road Trip, I spent about an hour 
  catching up, and I thank those who encouraged me to stick
  around. I've decided to take you up on the offer, at least
  for a little while, and with some self-imposed restrictions.
  I plan to spend a maximum of 20 minutes a day :-) reading 
  FFL, and then to do so very, very selectively, reading only 
  what catches my eye, and avoiding those posters whom time 
  has proven a waste of time. If I post, it will be as an 
  exercise in writing, not as a prelude to or an invitation 
  to argue. 
  
  One of the spiritual teachers I worked with used to say, 
  Writers write because they're trying to figure things out. 
  For the record, that's all I'm doing...trying to figure 
  things out. These raps are not my idea of What Is True, 
  and I'm not trying to sell the ideas in them to anyone 
  or convince anyone that they're true or right.  
  
  I post the comments as what they are, Just My Opinion. I 
  will not respond to any comments others make about them, 
  and to be honest can't even promise to read the followups,
  if there are any. Unlike many of the people here, I don't 
  really feel any need to defend my opinions as anything other 
  than what they are -- just my opinions, made at a particular
  point in time, possibly changing at another point in time. 
  If others want to comment on them, that's their business. 
  The posts themselves are the only comments I have to offer.
  
  Here's the first of them:
  
  
  
  Reading some of the FFL posts from the last month, pretty 
  much at random, I came across a few (both the opinions of
  FFL regulars and quotes from others in the TMO) that 
  suggest to me that TM has degenerated into a path in 
  which the few lingering True Believers are acting out 
  of a profound fear of CC.
  
  No, not Cosmic Consciousness. I'm talking about Cosmic 
  Cooties.
  
  Over the decades, the TM faithful have been told, by 
  Maharishi directly and by those he trained to parrot his 
  words, that certain things in life contain Cosmic Cooties, 
  and that to come in contact with these things is to chance 
  getting the cooties on yourself. 
  
  To doubt the infallible Truth of the TM dogma is definitely 
  courting cooties. There can be no question of this -- all 
  you have to do is watch and see what happens to those in 
  the TMO who give expression to their doubts. They are 
  whisked out of sight and quarantined as quickly as a leper 
  would have been chased out of a medieval village. Doubt 
  cooties are *contagious*, after all, and you can't allow 
  those who have them to mingle among the uninfected.
  
  The other thing that definitely is infected with these 
  highly contagious cooties is being open to knowledge from 
  or representatives of other spiritual traditions. The 
  attitude could be emblazoned on a T-shirt: SEE A SAINT, 
  GET COOTIES!
  
  Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
  the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
  *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
  infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
  evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
  the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
  awaits them.
  
  I believe that this is a really sad phenomenon. Not just 
  for the organization that espouses it, but for the indi-
  vidual seekers who buy into this dogma of fear as Truth. 
  What it creates in them is a path based on self hatred, 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fear of CC: Self Loathing as Spiritual Path

2006-08-25 Thread geezerfreak
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 snip
  Such is the fear of Cosmic Cooties at this point that 
  the official TM organization won't allow anyone who has 
  *admitted to* any contact with either of the cootie-
  infested behaviors to be part of civilzed...uh, I mean 
  evolved...company. They are weeded out and sent off to 
  the hell world that the TBs have been trained to believe 
  awaits them.
 
 The impression I have from the reports here is
 that people who have seen other saints *are*
 allowed to participate in the course if they
 sign a statement vowing never to do so again.
 
 Not good, obviously, but at least the TMO seems to
 believe in the possibility of redemption.
 
 snip
  I suggest all of this as a way to help the more 
  balanced posters here feel more compassion for some 
  of the more strident voices among them. The angrier 
  these voices get, the more they demonize others who 
  think for themselves and are honest about their doubts 
  and their extracurricular interests, the more angry 
  they really are at themselves. The more they demonize 
  these cootie-infested individuals, the more they 
  internally demonize themselves.
 
 Funny, I've seen very little in the way of
 demonizing of those with extracurricular
 interests here lately.  In fact, most of the
 demonizing seems to be going in the other
 direction (as in this post of Barry's).

...and avoiding those posters whom time 
has proven a waste of time. 





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