[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
Should we take the delusions of these deranged men as divine religion.?? Semitic religions ie Christianity islam are Virus memes that have gone out of control. It's a form of collective madness that is very much similar to Slavery, Foot-binding, Female Circumcision, Sati burning and Female infanticide etc etc. boo_lives [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:00:25 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp Every single fundamentalist christian I've spoken to the past 30 years is absolutely convinced they are going to heaven and every non christian is going to hell. who cares how they justify it, conduct or grace or donations to the church, the point is that's their arrogant and closeminded belief. actually that fundamentalist christians don't give a rats ass about conduct is one of their big problems. have you read the immensely popular left behind books - floating up to heaven and not being left behind to get zapped with the non believers by jesus is the major motivator for them. for fundies grace is just a pretty word for superiority. - Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
On Jul 8, 2007, at 8:08 PM, off_world_beings wrote: The MSAE kids do remind me of what you are saying, the difference is they can refer to hundres of studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Well, understand that only TB types or the occasional outsider who is duped actually believe those studies. Yes, like several universities around the country and the NIH, several judges in Missouri and many others. And Vaj, i don't know if anyone ever taught you this, but belief has no place in science. Science is all about double-blind studies using rigorous methods - which the TM studies use the most rigorous. You might want to look up science, scientific method, peer-review, etc and get an education. You have no argument against hundreds of studies published in peer- reviewed journals. You point is pure prejudice. If people believe their biased studies then people should be flocking to Maharishi schools. Are they?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/9/07 7:09:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If people believe their biased studies then people should be flocking to Maharishi schools. Are they? Nearly every student can thrive in a small private school with small classes, lots of personal attention and teachers who care about the students. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/9/07 7:09:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If people believe their biased studies then people should be flocking to Maharishi schools. Are they? Nearly every student can thrive in a small private school with small classes, lots of personal attention and teachers who care about the students. As I well know, my own children going to private schools with small classes. But their schools are bursting at the seams to hold enough kids. There are waiting lists, etc. MSAE was barely afloat last I heard. Must be no support of nature? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:24 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/9/07 7:09:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If people believe their biased studies then people should be flocking to Maharishi schools. Are they? Nearly every student can thrive in a small private school with small classes, lots of personal attention and teachers who care about the students. As I well know, my own children going to private schools with small classes. But their schools are bursting at the seams to hold enough kids. There are waiting lists, etc. MSAE was barely afloat last I heard. Must be no support of nature? :-) MUM was saved from bankruptcy by importing africans and their student loans and hopes for green cards. I don't think that strategy will work at the high school level.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: Christians teach that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that non would perish And that if you do not believe in him and follow their doctrine and support their church above all other concerns, you will burn in hell fire for eternity. And, if true, think of all the company you'll have, and the parties, man. Compare and contrast to spending eternity in a heaven populated by the fundamentalist Christians you've known.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/7/07 4:50:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Where do you get this idea that Christians believe God hates anybody? The fundamentalists teach that God will Burn you in Hell for Eternity. If burning people for eternity is not hate, tell me what is. Or, at best, extinguish your soul forever, if you do not: Believe in Jesus, the resurrection, the miracles and that all other religions and meditations are evil and the work of Satan. Wake up ! This is what they believe. Christians teach that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that non would perish And that if you do not believe in him and follow their doctrine and support their church above all other concerns, you will burn in hell fire for eternity. OffWorld If you buy a car with full warranty, bumper to bumper coverage, and it breaks down and you refuse to take advantage of the manufacturer's guarantee, who's fault is it that your car is useless or you had to pay heavily for somebody else to try to fix the problem and they never get it right? If you have an issue, take it up with the manufacturer? It isn't Christian fundamentalists who wrote the Old Testament which required the ritualistic shedding of blood for the remittance of sin and promised a messiah. And if you don't believe in this God , why are you so upset at what He requires of mankind? As I said earlier, according to Judaic/ Christian belief God is love and loves his creation but He has zero tolerance for sin and at the same time is slow to anger and very patient. If you don't like His warranty for your life, fix it your self. By the way if you really look deeply into just about all other major religions of the world you will see that they claim their religion is either the only way or the best way since any other method is virtually futile. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
On Jul 7, 2007, at 4:18 PM, off_world_beings wrote: the MSAE, indoctrinated in Vedic Creation theory and encouraged to hop are so, so similar? I could see a similar documentary being done called Forest Academy and it would show the Vedic creationists urging their children on to their very first Forest Academy! Rather than writhing on the floor in ecstasy, these young yuppie kids aspire to foam. Yes, I have always seen the parallels. Did you ever see the original movie The Time Machine. I seem to remember the far-off future with some hippies hanging around some ruined domes, and them being herded off into an underground cavern. Walking to the dome with all those people (when men's dome entrance was underground) often reminded me of that. But it is just silly to compare them. Vaguely. The MSAE kids do remind me of what you are saying, the difference is they can refer to hundres of studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Well, understand that only TB types or the occasional outsider who is duped actually believe those studies. Most good private schools and some public schools have exemplary stats, they just don't use the pseudoscience marketing scam TM-based orgs are well known for. But do I think a X-tian based indoctrination method could not come up with a similar scam? Of course they could, they don't need to. This is America and Jesus sells. The Christians can not. This is the benchmark of a valid argument, and the MSAE kids have that. Plus they do not believe that others are inferior to them and hated by God, as Fundamentalist Christians believe. The number of times Maharishi has said that EVERY human being is WALKING VED is uncountable, and every person is a precious expression of Brahman, he emphasizes always. Well herein lies the real matter. Is indoctrinating a child, long before the age s/he can, of their own free will and accord, typically make a deep spiritual commitment, and be imprinted in light trance states on an entire mythos while their little brains are still developing, a good thing? They are not making a free choice, their parents decide to put them up for Vedic imprinting. So IF the studies are just partially containing some validity, it also means they may have come up with one of the best brainwashing schemes ever. BIG DIFFERENCE don't you think. Can you not see this?...but you Vaj would only look at the surface to make comparisons, since that is your habit with everything is it not? No, I was looking at the mind control equivalencies and the amount of coercion vs. freedom of choice. Nice synopsis of the US, too bad you can't apply the same razor of criticism at your own scorpionland... Why do Americans always assume that just because a person criticises the biggest superpower on Earth that they have not the same criticism of their own country. Perhaps I missed your previous critiques of Britain and Europe, I don't often read your posts. Do I HAVE to prep. everything by saying that I see just as many issues for Britain, but... Yes, that would give your posts a more balanced flavor. The problem with Britain was arrogant christian self-agrandizing Tony Blair and others. However, Britain will not be in Iraq much longer. Superpower USA will be stuck there. Sad but true. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/7/07 3:33:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Incorrect. It was entirely based on Bush et al's complete arrogance about themselves as superior fundie Christians Prove your point. You first. But, I will anyway, even though I know your arrogance and cannot accept that Bush et al were a bunch of bron again christians that believed that you are inferior and will go to hell. This is the doctrine. You are going to hell for not following them. Not only that oyu have to follow their particular brand of christianity or you are going to hell. Now, I actually know someone who grew up right next door to John Ashcroft and said he was a nice guy but a fanatic born again christian. Bush, Rice, Ashcroft, Rove, are self-confessed fundies and their doctrine is that god hates you, therefore will burn you in hell forever (the greatest statement of hatred ever made) Also, hundreds of inexperienced people placed in positions of authority just because they attended that fat preacher's christian fundamentalist college (some of them involved the US attorney debacle for example). Now, let's see if you are capable of logic MDIXON: as does Carl Rove, Rice, Ashcroft, and many wealthy supporters of Republicans are outright fanatics and you know it. Tedc Haggard claimed he coucelled Bush on the phone at least once a week. Ted Haggard, in case you don't know was a raving fundie making a lot of money from it, and who turns out to be having anal sex and taking hard drugs with male prostitutes on the fly. All these people claim to follow the born-again doctrine. That means: If you are not with their particluar sect of Christianity then you are with Satan and will go to Hell and burn eternally through Jesus' hatred of you forever and ever. Now, I know you won't be bothered to do the research to find this out, but this is the doctrine of the fundies. In addition, Blackwater, the largest mercenary private army in the world (each one getting paid 4 or 5 times a regular military guy - you might want to tell your relatives to leave the military and sign up for better pay with them eh?)...the person who started it and runs it is a rabid fundamentalist. Blackwater is highly active in Iraq as highly paid mercenaries. I also know you will try to avoid all this and change the subject. This method of yours shows a great fear in you to deal with things rationally. You know the doctrine, you know they believed it in their arrogant years (Bush: I take the council of a higher Father - not his own father, who was questioned the invasion of iraq). I believe these arrogant ignorant cowards have now waned in their beliefs but not entirely, and the NeoCons will decline, most of the big money comes from rich fundies. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
The MSAE kids do remind me of what you are saying, the difference is they can refer to hundres of studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Well, understand that only TB types or the occasional outsider who is duped actually believe those studies. Yes, like several universities around the country and the NIH, several judges in Missouri and many others. And Vaj, i don't know if anyone ever taught you this, but belief has no place in science. Science is all about double-blind studies using rigorous methods - which the TM studies use the most rigorous. You might want to look up science, scientific method, peer-review, etc and get an education. You have no argument against hundreds of studies published in peer- reviewed journals. You point is pure prejudice. Most good private schools and some public schools have exemplary stats, I never mentioned stats...who cares. But do I think a X-tian based indoctrination method could not come up with a similar scam? They have tried and failed. You cannot get stuff like that published in peer-reviewed journals by the hundreds. The Christians can not. This is the benchmark of a valid argument, and the MSAE kids have that. Plus they do not believe that others are inferior to them and hated by God, as Fundamentalist Christians believe. The number of times Maharishi has said that EVERY human being is WALKING VED is uncountable, and every person is a precious expression of Brahman, he emphasizes always. Well herein lies the real matter. Is indoctrinating a child, long before the age s/he can, of their own free will and accord, typically make a deep spiritual commitment, and be imprinted in light trance states on an entire mythos while their little brains are still developing, a good thing? They are not making a free choice, their parents decide to put them up for Vedic imprinting. As is the case with all education. I am bored with this, get back to me when you have several scientific studies that refute the TM research and when the NIH etc. stop funding the studies. And when the Christians come up with hundreds of studies saying prayer works the same, let me know. Otherwise no-one in the 21st century is going to listen to you or the fundies. Science reigns supreme, and these studies are robust. Tough luck people, you are screwed until you can come up with the same number saying the opposite or that something else works just as good. OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/8/07 6:58:28 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Incorrect. It was entirely based on Bush et al's complete arrogance about themselves as superior fundie Christians Prove your point. You first. But, I will anyway, even though I know your arrogance and cannot accept that Bush et al were a bunch of bron again christians that believed that you are inferior and will go to hell. This is the doctrine. You are going to hell for not following them. Not only that oyu have to follow their particular brand of christianity or you are going to hell. Now, I actually know someone who grew up right next door to John Ashcroft and said he was a nice guy but a fanatic born again christian. Bush, Rice, Ashcroft, Rove, are self-confessed fundies and their doctrine is that god hates you, therefore will burn you in hell forever (the greatest statement of hatred ever made) Also, hundreds of inexperienced people placed in positions of authority just because they attended that fat preacher's christian fundamentalist college (some of them involved the US attorney debacle for example). Now, let's see if you are capable of logic MDIXON: as does Carl Rove, Rice, Ashcroft, and many wealthy supporters of Republicans are outright fanatics and you know it. Tedc Haggard claimed he coucelled Bush on the phone at least once a week. Ted Haggard, in case you don't know was a raving fundie making a lot of money from it, and who turns out to be having anal sex and taking hard drugs with male prostitutes on the fly. All these people claim to follow the born-again doctrine. That means: If you are not with their particluar sect of Christianity then you are with Satan and will go to Hell and burn eternally through Jesus' hatred of you forever and ever. Now, I know you won't be bothered to do the research to find this out, but this is the doctrine of the fundies. In addition, Blackwater, the largest mercenary private army in the world (each one getting paid 4 or 5 times a regular military guy - you might want to tell your relatives to leave the military and sign up for better pay with them eh?)...the person who started it and runs it is a rabid fundamentalist. Blackwater is highly active in Iraq as highly paid mercenaries. I also know you will try to avoid all this and change the subject. This method of yours shows a great fear in you to deal with things rationally. You know the doctrine, you know they believed it in their arrogant years (Bush: I take the council of a higher Father - not his own father, who was questioned the invasion of iraq). I believe these arrogant ignorant cowards have now waned in their beliefs but not entirely, and the NeoCons will decline, most of the big money comes from rich fundies. OffWorld Sorry, you haven't proved your point . All you did was go on a diatribe about how you hate Christian fundamentalist. Was Clinton a Christian fundamentalist when he bombed Iraq, how about GHW Bush when he invaded Iraq to push them out of Kuwait. Was LBJ a Christian fundamentalist when he escalated the war in Vietnam. Was Roosevelt a Christian Fundamentalist when he asked for a declaration of war against Japan and Germany? No, I think not. Their decisions had nothing to do with their religious beliefs. Their decision, as Bush's, were based upon the oath they took, to protect and defend the constitution of The United States. If you want to call Bush stubborn or arrogant or anything else you like, that's your judgment. But to blame his decisions based upon his religious beliefs only shows your own ignorance of his religion and your own religious bigotry. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/6/07 4:47:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. Let's address your premise. First of all Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with his religion or anybody else's. It was based on the history of Saddam Hussein and intelligence provided by the CIA as well as intelligence provided by other nations and the lack of compliance by Saddam with UN resolutions. The rest of your diatribe is equally flawed. BTW the Christians I know, don't feel superior to anybody. They don't believe they stand a snowball's chance in hell of entering the Kingdom of Heaven based upon their own works or efforts because they are just as flawed as a human Being as anybody else. I don't know a Christian who believes he deserves to go to heaven based upon his own conduct in life. They believe they are saved by the Grace of God by admitting they are flawed, repenting of their sins, and trusting Christ as their savior. Further more they believe it is a gift, free, not costing $ 2,500.00 or more, to all that call on the name of Christ. Your last sentence, above, can equally be said to describe an awful lot of Transcendental Meditators as well. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/6/07 4:47:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. Let's address your premise. First of all Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with his religion or anybody else's. It was based on the history of Saddam Hussein and intelligence provided by the CIA as well as intelligence provided by other nations and the lack of compliance by Saddam with UN resolutions. The rest of your diatribe is equally flawed. BTW the Christians I know, don't feel superior to anybody. They don't believe they stand a snowball's chance in hell of entering the Kingdom of Heaven based upon their own works or efforts because they are just as flawed as a human Being as anybody else. I don't know a Christian who believes he deserves to go to heaven based upon his own conduct in life. They believe they are saved by the Grace of God by admitting they are flawed, repenting of their sins, and trusting Christ as their savior. Further more they believe it is a gift, free, not costing $ 2,500.00 or more, to all that call on the name of Christ. Your last sentence, above, can equally be said to describe an awful lot of Transcendental Meditators as well. Every single fundamentalist christian I've spoken to the past 30 years is absolutely convinced they are going to heaven and every non christian is going to hell. who cares how they justify it, conduct or grace or donations to the church, the point is that's their arrogant and closeminded belief. actually that fundamentalist christians don't give a rats ass about conduct is one of their big problems. have you read the immensely popular left behind books - floating up to heaven and not being left behind to get zapped with the non believers by jesus is the major motivator for them. for fundies grace is just a pretty word for superiority.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:45 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/6/07 10:05:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From another list: analyze this _http://rapidshare.http://raphttp://rahttp://ra_ (http://rapidshare.com/files/41054578/jesus.wmv) 1. Klick rigth underneath on FREE 2. Type de code 3. download A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. This documentary, directed by Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, directors of the critically acclaimed The Boys of Baraka, follows Levi, Rachael, and Tory to Pastor Becky Fischer's Kids on Fire summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where kids as young as 6 years-old are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army. Imagine a place where focused, precocious kids pledge allegiance to a holy text and train as ideological warriors - even, yes, martyrs. You're imagining America - specifically, Kids on Fire, an evangelical madrassa devoted to fomenting a religiopolitical Children's Crusade. ''This world, all it feeds you is trash,'' says 12-year-old Levi. ''I want the meat.'' recensies: _http://www.rottentohttp://www.http://www.ro_ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jesus_camp/) _http://www.metacrithttp://www.mehttp://www.metac_ (http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/jesuscamp) Cut to the flickering images of children writhing in a spiritual trance on a chapel floor while being hectored about the glory of dying for Christ, and one knows exactly where the first Christian suicide bombers will come from. The problem here is Christianity has no concept of Jihad or conversion under the sword. When it was done, crusades and inquisition, it wasn't Biblically based. Children writhing in spiritual trance on the floor, could this be anything like sutra practice in which I have seen the same thing? Sounds like you fear Christians on fire with the Holy Spirit more than Muslims on fire with suicide belts. Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. This is what Bush believed. You are inferior to him and his buddies. American Christians have been getting high tech machines to murder people by the hundreds of thousands, and the government was DIRECTLY supported by them in large numbers. The Muslim fanatics manage to kill with suicide bombs and some lucky chances on 9/11. There is no difference between the two. The only difference is that you think the Iraq war was caused by political forces. It was not. It was fueled by fundamentalist fanaticism in the US and even in the US military, and the result is a quagmire you cannot get out of. No way out. No way to stay much longer either. No choices left for you. You are stuck there in a quagmire mess for many, many decades. You are naive if you think you can get out. Even if you get out for a short time, you will end up having to go back in in much larger numbers and with much greater casualties not long after. Fundamentalist Christian arrogance caused this quagmire, and fundamentalist Muslim arrogance is just as bad, only much less big guns and fighter jets. All of this Bush administrations ignorant mess was CAUSED DIRECTLY by the arrogance of a religious group who states that it follows God, therefore cannot do wrong. The other side is the satanic one. Both Muslim and Christian fundies are the same. You are incredibly naive to think that American fundamentalists do not kill for religion. Even some top positions in this administration were filled by inexperienced people who graduated from that fat preachers 'university'/madras, and they were all gung-ho to kill for Jesus. This administration believed they were the righteous saints, and now this quagmire you will not get out of and it is going to eat away at your national pride, national moral, and national budget in increasing clarity. I am not being a doomsayer, just saying what I and many others predicted would happen as a result of this ignorant action. Sure something had to be done about Saddam, but this was a massive and unprecedented strategic mistake and a blunder of historic proportions and the wrong way to go about it. Fortunately Jesus Camp is a bit dated now, and Ted Haggard who stars in it as an arrogant, self-agrandizing, christian fanatic, is outed as a drug toking, anus fucking,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 6, 2007, at 5:45 PM, off_world_beings wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 7/6/07 10:05:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, vajranatha@ writes: From another list: analyze this _http://rapidshare.http://raphttp://rahttp://ra_ (http://rapidshare.com/files/41054578/jesus.wmv) 1. Klick rigth underneath on FREE 2. Type de code 3. download A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. This documentary, directed by Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, directors of the critically acclaimed The Boys of Baraka, follows Levi, Rachael, and Tory to Pastor Becky Fischer's Kids on Fire summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where kids as young as 6 years-old are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army. Imagine a place where focused, precocious kids pledge allegiance to a holy text and train as ideological warriors - even, yes, martyrs. You're imagining America - specifically, Kids on Fire, an evangelical madrassa devoted to fomenting a religiopolitical Children's Crusade. ''This world, all it feeds you is trash,'' says 12-year-old Levi. ''I want the meat.'' recensies: _http://www.rottentohttp://www.http://www.ro_ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jesus_camp/) _http://www.metacrithttp://www.mehttp://www.metac_ (http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/jesuscamp) Cut to the flickering images of children writhing in a spiritual trance on a chapel floor while being hectored about the glory of dying for Christ, and one knows exactly where the first Christian suicide bombers will come from. The problem here is Christianity has no concept of Jihad or conversion under the sword. When it was done, crusades and inquisition, it wasn't Biblically based. Children writhing in spiritual trance on the floor, could this be anything like sutra practice in which I have seen the same thing? Sounds like you fear Christians on fire with the Holy Spirit more than Muslims on fire with suicide belts. Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. This is what Bush believed. You are inferior to him and his buddies. American Christians have been getting high tech machines to murder people by the hundreds of thousands, and the government was DIRECTLY supported by them in large numbers. The Muslim fanatics manage to kill with suicide bombs and some lucky chances on 9/11. There is no difference between the two. The only difference is that you think the Iraq war was caused by political forces. It was not. It was fueled by fundamentalist fanaticism in the US and even in the US military, and the result is a quagmire you cannot get out of. No way out. No way to stay much longer either. No choices left for you. You are stuck there in a quagmire mess for many, many decades. You are naive if you think you can get out. Even if you get out for a short time, you will end up having to go back in in much larger numbers and with much greater casualties not long after. Fundamentalist Christian arrogance caused this quagmire, and fundamentalist Muslim arrogance is just as bad, only much less big guns and fighter jets. All of this Bush administrations ignorant mess was CAUSED DIRECTLY by the arrogance of a religious group who states that it follows God, therefore cannot do wrong. The other side is the satanic one. Both Muslim and Christian fundies are the same. You are incredibly naive to think that American fundamentalists do not kill for religion. Even some top positions in this administration were filled by inexperienced people who graduated from that fat preachers 'university'/madras, and they were all gung-ho to kill for Jesus. This administration believed they were the righteous saints, and now this quagmire you will not get out of and it is going to eat away at your national pride, national moral, and national budget in increasing clarity. I am not being a doomsayer, just saying what I and many others predicted would happen as a result of this ignorant action. Sure something had to be done about Saddam, but
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's address your premise. First of all Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with his religion or anybody else's. Lol, you are incredibly naive about fundamentalist Christians and their (now waning) Fundamenstalist big money backers. It was based on the history of Saddam Hussein and intelligence provided by the CIA as well as intelligence provided by other nations and the lack of compliance by Saddam with UN resolutions. Incorrect. It was entirely based on Bush et al's complete arrogance about themselves as superior fundie Christians. They put pressure on everyone to sex up the intelligence and if you WERE NOT WITH THEM, YOU WERE AGAINST THEM. They outed CIA agent whose husband questioned the flawed and exaggerated intelligence. The UN inspectors said there was no evidence. The pressure to conform was HUGE on all those invlovled with the administration. It was not based on REASON, but on ARROGANCE, the absolute core of which was the administrations belief in their religious superiority. You don't even know that John Ashcroft, for example, (I know someone who knows him personally) was a FANATIC born-again Christian, and believed without any DOUBT, that you are inferior and that you are going to Hell. Bush, Rice, Rove, and several others believed the samevehemently. The rest of your diatribe is equally flawed. BTW the Christians I know, don't feel superior to anybody. They don't believe they stand a snowball's chance in hell of entering the Kingdom of Heaven based upon their own works or efforts because they are just as flawed as a human Being as anybody else. I don't know a Christian who believes he deserves to go to heaven based upon his own conduct in life. They believe they are saved by the Grace of God by admitting they are flawed, repenting of their sins, and trusting Christ as their savior. You do not know a lot of Fundamnetalist Christians if you have not heard that they believe you are going to Hell for your inferior religious stance, and that you work for Satan unless you conform, and they consider themselves superior to other humans...just like fundie Muslims do. Further more they believe it is a gift, free, not costing $ 2,500.00 or more, to all that call on the name of Christ. Strawman...plus THEY DO ASK FOR MONEY...BIGTIME, and make them feel guilty and terrorise them with threat of Hell, if you are not a good Chritstian, and a good Christian according to them supports the preachers with everything they can. How naive can you get !? last sentence, above, can equally be said to describe an awful lot of Transcendental Meditators as well. Not even close. Pure make-believe on your part. OffWorld .
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/7/07 10:01:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Every single fundamentalist christian I've spoken to the past 30 years is absolutely convinced they are going to heaven and every non christian is going to hell. who cares how they justify it, conduct or grace or donations to the church, the point is that's their arrogant and closeminded belief. actually that fundamentalist christians don't give a rats ass about conduct is one of their big problems. have you read the immensely popular left behind books - floating up to heaven and not being left behind to get zapped with the non believers by jesus is the major motivator for them. for fundies grace is just a pretty word for superiority. Yes, you are right that every fundamentalist Christian believes they are going to Heaven and anybody that has not accepted the gift of Salvation offered by God Almighty will burn in Hell for eternity. That is what their scripture teaches, and every human being has a choice. It's not arrogance, it's a matter of faith in their scripture. They all knew they were on the road to Hell just like anybody else till they had their epiphany. However the Christians I know also say that doesn't give them a license to behave badly. They know they are flawed and sinful and it is up to them to repent and change. Change doesn't come instantly and can be a work in progress, over the period of their entire life and still they may not finish that act of repenting, but they are forgiven. Now, maybe you would like to tell us about some of your beliefs, like an endless cycle of birth and death for all of creation unless you can escape it through the practice of Transcendental Meditation , Yogic Flying, Yagyas, Pancha Karma, living in specially built dwellings etc. Yet, I don't see one ounce of better behavior in your typical TMer than I see in the average church going fundamentalist Christian. In fact it may even be worse. Something was said earlier by OffWorld about Ted Haggart and his fall. I noticed he said nothing about all the Yogis, Swamis, Brahmacharyas, and Avatars that sexually exploit their disciples while claiming to be so pure and above all that. No , fundies don't claim to be pure or perfect, in fact, many will tell you they are or were total wretches, Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, but they believe that God gave all humanity a way to escape what they deserved. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/7/07 3:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The MSAE kids do remind me of what you are saying, the difference is they can refer to hundres of studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. The Christians can not. This is the benchmark of a valid argument, and the MSAE kids have that. Plus they do not believe that others are inferior to them and hated by God, as Fundamentalist Christians believe. Yet how many MSAE kids come out of school all messed up? I don't know, I've just heard the rumors. And most kids learn better in private schools anyway. The average Fundie would much rather send their children to a private Christian based school. Where do you get this idea that Christians believe God hates anybody? Christians teach that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that non would perish. They also teach that it is not people that God hates but that He is so Holy and pure that He can not look upon sin nor be in it's presence. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/7/07 3:33:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Incorrect. It was entirely based on Bush et al's complete arrogance about themselves as superior fundie Christians Prove your point. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
In a message dated 7/7/07 3:33:25 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Further more they believe it is a gift, free, not costing $ 2,500.00 or more, to all that call on the name of Christ. Strawman...plus THEY DO ASK FOR MONEY...BIGTIME, and make them feel guilty and terrorise them with threat of Hell, if you are not a good Chritstian, and a good Christian according to them supports the preachers with everything they can. How naive can you get !? Nobody ever said they don't ask for money. But they don't make you buy your salvation. That, they tell you can not be bought. The principle of tithing and offering money to God is Biblically based, see Deuteronomy. You have a typically warped understanding of Christianity. Sounds like it is hate based. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/7/07 3:18:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The MSAE kids do remind me of what you are saying, the difference is they can refer to hundres of studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. The Christians can not. This is the benchmark of a valid argument, and the MSAE kids have that. Plus they do not believe that others are inferior to them and hated by God, as Fundamentalist Christians believe. Yet how many MSAE kids come out of school all messed up? I don't know, I've just heard the rumors. And most kids learn better in private schools anyway. The average Fundie would much rather send their children to a private Christian based school. Where do you get this idea that Christians believe God hates anybody? The fundamentalists teach that God will Burn you in Hell for Eternity. If burning people for eternity is not hate, tell me what is. Or, at best, extinguish your soul forever, if you do not: Believe in Jesus, the resurrection, the miracles and that all other religions and meditations are evil and the work of Satan. Wake up ! This is what they believe. Christians teach that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that non would perish And that if you do not believe in him and follow their doctrine and support their church above all other concerns, you will burn in hell fire for eternity. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 7/6/07 10:05:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From another list: analyze this _http://rapidshare.http://raphttp://rahttp://ra_ (http://rapidshare.com/files/41054578/jesus.wmv) 1. Klick rigth underneath on FREE 2. Type de code 3. download A growing number of Evangelical Christians believe there is a revival underway in America that requires Christian youth to assume leadership roles in advocating the causes of their religious movement. This documentary, directed by Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, directors of the critically acclaimed The Boys of Baraka, follows Levi, Rachael, and Tory to Pastor Becky Fischer's Kids on Fire summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where kids as young as 6 years-old are taught to become dedicated Christian soldiers in God's army. Imagine a place where focused, precocious kids pledge allegiance to a holy text and train as ideological warriors - even, yes, martyrs. You're imagining America - specifically, Kids on Fire, an evangelical madrassa devoted to fomenting a religiopolitical Children's Crusade. ''This world, all it feeds you is trash,'' says 12-year-old Levi. ''I want the meat.'' recensies: _http://www.rottentohttp://www.http://www.ro_ (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jesus_camp/) _http://www.metacrithttp://www.mehttp://www.metac_ (http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/jesuscamp) Cut to the flickering images of children writhing in a spiritual trance on a chapel floor while being hectored about the glory of dying for Christ, and one knows exactly where the first Christian suicide bombers will come from. The problem here is Christianity has no concept of Jihad or conversion under the sword. When it was done, crusades and inquisition, it wasn't Biblically based. Children writhing in spiritual trance on the floor, could this be anything like sutra practice in which I have seen the same thing? Sounds like you fear Christians on fire with the Holy Spirit more than Muslims on fire with suicide belts. Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. This is what Bush believed. You are inferior to him and his buddies. American Christians have been getting high tech machines to murder people by the hundreds of thousands, and the government was DIRECTLY supported by them in large numbers. The Muslim fanatics manage to kill with suicide bombs and some lucky chances on 9/11. There is no difference between the two. The only difference is that you think the Iraq war was caused by political forces. It was not. It was fueled by fundamentalist fanaticism in the US and even in the US military, and the result is a quagmire you cannot get out of. No way out. No way to stay much longer either. No choices left for you. You are stuck there in a quagmire mess for many, many decades. You are naive if you think you can get out. Even if you get out for a short time, you will end up having to go back in in much larger numbers and with much greater casualties not long after. Fundamentalist Christian arrogance caused this quagmire, and fundamentalist Muslim arrogance is just as bad, only much less big guns and fighter jets. All of this Bush administrations ignorant mess was CAUSED DIRECTLY by the arrogance of a religious group who states that it follows God, therefore cannot do wrong. The other side is the satanic one. Both Muslim and Christian fundies are the same. You are incredibly naive to think that American fundamentalists do not kill for religion. Even some top positions in this administration were filled by inexperienced people who graduated from that fat preachers 'university'/madras, and they were all gung-ho to kill for Jesus. This administration believed they were the righteous saints, and now this quagmire you will not get out of and it is going to eat away at your national pride, national moral, and national budget in increasing clarity. I am not being a doomsayer, just saying what I and many others predicted would happen as a result of this ignorant action. Sure something had to be done about Saddam, but this was a massive and unprecedented strategic mistake and a blunder of historic proportions and the wrong way to go about it. Fortunately Jesus Camp is a bit dated now, and Ted Haggard who stars in it as an arrogant, self-agrandizing,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp
--great quotes, I love them! In spite of the hoaky-looking bots in Transformers, it's an excellent movie, IMO. The various good vs evil themes in the movie seem to parallel in a round about way, Fundie theology: we're the good guys, they're the evil dudes. Kill them, and they're going to Hell. (the evil Deceptrons invading the earth were destroyed and their bodies dropped into a deep oceanic trench). - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he is being sarcastic, and had a low-level understanding of the point of my post. OffWorld --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Your quotations are a bit unfamiliar for us. Where did you get these tidbits? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock jedi_spock@ wrote: Yes, you could be Correct. Jesus said, Thou shall kill for me. Jesus also said, Whoever kills and murders innocents will sit with me and my father in heaven and have eternal life. Jesus also said, You can do no wrong, so don't ask for forgiveness. off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:45:56 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jesus Camp Er...hundreds of thousands killed, maimed, or displaced by an arrogant Christian fundamentalist regime (Bush, Ashcroft, Rice, Rove, and others). Are you that anive that you don't realise that the fanaticism that fuels the Christian taliban is the same fanaticicism and arrogance that caused GW Bush to say he follows a Higher Father, and he, by believed he therefore cannot do wrong. This is the EXACT philosophy of the Born-Again Christians, and they believe they are superior and you are going to Hell. This is what Bush believed. You are inferior to him and his buddies. American Christians have been getting high tech machines to murder people by the hundreds of thousands, and the government was DIRECTLY supported by them in large numbers. The Muslim fanatics manage to kill with suicide bombs and some lucky chances on 9/11. There is no difference between the two. The only difference is that you think the Iraq war was caused by political forces. It was not. It was fueled by fundamentalist fanaticism in the US and even in the US military, and the result is a quagmire you cannot get out of. No way out. No way to stay much longer either. No choices left for you. You are stuck there in a quagmire mess for many, many decades. You are naive if you think you can get out. Even if you get out for a short time, you will end up having to go back in in much larger numbers and with much greater casualties not long after. Fundamentalist Christian arrogance caused this quagmire, and fundamentalist Muslim arrogance is just as bad, only much less big guns and fighter jets. All of this Bush administrations ignorant mess was CAUSED DIRECTLY by the arrogance of a religious group who states that it follows God, therefore cannot do wrong. The other side is the satanic one. Both Muslim and Christian fundies are the same. You are incredibly naive to think that American fundamentalists do not kill for religion. Even some top positions in this administration were filled by inexperienced people who graduated from that fat preachers 'university' /madras, and they were all gung-ho to kill for Jesus. This administration believed they were the righteous saints, and now this quagmire you will not get out of and it is going to eat away at your national pride, national moral, and national budget in increasing clarity. I am not being a doomsayer, just saying what I and many others predicted would happen as a result of this ignorant action. Sure something had to be done about Saddam, but this was a massive and unprecedented strategic mistake and a blunder of historic proportions and the wrong way to go about it. Fortunately Jesus Camp is a bit dated now, and Ted Haggard who stars in it as an arrogant, self-agrandizing, christian fanatic, is outed as a drug toking, anus fucking, prostitute using, fake, and many other Christians are turning away from the fanatic arrogance that fueled the Neocons Talibanesque onslaught on civilization, and are turning to a more humble form of their religion. Bush is practically the most disgraced president of all time, and the US will have VERY a hard time recovering from the mess into which it has dug itself. Quagmire mess, soldiers returning home psychologically shaken, desertions fast on the rise, moral declining. Well done BushSheep. What an ubelievable mess. You will see prices rising across the board, and your income
