[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: Simple Mantra japa, though a good start, is far from knowing how to consciously withdraw to Samadhi. Most Westerners aren't ready for a Sat-Guru anyway and he probably knew that, (the demands a Sat-Guru places on a disciple aren't just *effortless*, ha, ha)! That's a good point. There were a lot of 'fairy tale' believers running around in the TMO who thought they were just going to glide right into enlightenment automatically because someone told them they will. Many of those people believed in the whole 100% effortless lifestyle that achieving enlightenment is supposed to give you. Many of those people, to include friends and family of mine, are now finding themselves in their 40's and 50's with no money, no job skills, no significant attributes to rely on, and no wealthy parents around to take care of them, and they're living a poor economy. It would be easy to blame it all on MMY, the TMO, or some of the people in the TMO elite inner circle. But i've always said that if you walk down a rough neighborhood dressed nicely with money in your wallet, it's going to get taken every time. You can curse the thug who took it, but you're the idiot who kept walking down the same street. I guess the conclusion they should be reaching (or should have reached years ago) is that 100% effortless lifestyle is bullshit. Sometimes simple mantra japa, is just simple mantra japa. Where your argument falls apart is that TM digs were made to look like palaces and the leader and his cronies did not look they were living in a rough neighborhood. Dressed in the finest silks, many insiders were quite wealthy (or at least tried to dress the part) and lived opulent lifestyles, it wasn't at all like your imaginary rough neighborhood. Unless you live in a ghetto where the books and the furniture are gold-gilt. ;-) The sattvic upside: bullshit is 100% organic when the right ingredients are ingested. But it's still inedible.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: That brings up another good point. When I was a student at MIU/MUM I remember a lot of anxiety going around regarding whether or not someone would attain enlightenment in this lifetime. Later in life, while studying Vedic teachings from someone else, I was exposed to the concept of Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha was supposed to be the Hindu equivelant of 'Heaven', and sometimes 'enlightenment'. According to the author, Vaikuntha directly translates as 'No Anxiety'. So essentially, 'enlightenment' and 'heaven' is the same thing as 'No Anxiety'. Yet it seemed to me that there was a lot of anxiety running around the TMO regarding whether or not we were doing enough for enlightenment, world peace, meditating enough, etc In other words, we were putting ourselves in a state of anxiety in order to achieve a state of no anxiety. seekliberation Good points! Why do you think they (the pundits, Bevan, etc.) kept chanting Maharishi is in heaven, Maharishi is in heaven when he had died? Because they believe incarnation into a heaven-dimension is a prerequisite for full awakening. Better luck next time!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- On Sat, 1/29/11, vajradhatu108 vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote: From: vajradhatu108 vajradh...@earthlink.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 5:30 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: That brings up another good point. When I was a student at MIU/MUM I remember a lot of anxiety going around regarding whether or not someone would attain enlightenment in this lifetime. Later in life, while studying Vedic teachings from someone else, I was exposed to the concept of Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha was supposed to be the Hindu equivelant of 'Heaven', and sometimes 'enlightenment'. According to the author, Vaikuntha directly translates as 'No Anxiety'. So essentially, 'enlightenment' and 'heaven' is the same thing as 'No Anxiety'. Yet it seemed to me that there was a lot of anxiety running around the TMO regarding whether or not we were doing enough for enlightenment, world peace, meditating enough, etc In other words, we were putting ourselves in a state of anxiety in order to achieve a state of no anxiety. seekliberation Good points! Why do you think they (the pundits, Bevan, etc.) kept chanting Maharishi is in heaven, Maharishi is in heaven when he had died? Because they believe incarnation into a heaven-dimension is a prerequisite for full awakening. Better luck next time! Nah, Maharishi was fully enlightened. He showed me his vast, blazing enlightenment. What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 6:20 PM, seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.netwrote: Better luck next time! Nah, Maharishi was fully enlightened. He showed me his vast, blazing enlightenment. What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. For someone who seems to have found a bigger, better way, Vaj sure spends a lot of time around here. I guess it must be dullsville where he has officially established his credentials, and so he comes here for kicks. But that does say something about his main sqeeze by my way of thinking. Of course here, he can throw around big names and concepts, and I don't really know (or care) what he is talking about. But it must make him feel important. He appears learned in those areas, and maybe he doesn't have an outlet elsewhere. At least he doesn't spam the group with Sanskrit text to show off what a pedant he is. Jeez. Sanskrit makes it look it's back to acoustical modem days and I've got the parity bits and baud rate set wrong in my Internet connection.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
On Jan 29, 2011, at 7:20 PM, seventhray1 wrote: Better luck next time! Nah, Maharishi was fully enlightened. He showed me his vast, blazing enlightenment. What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. For someone who seems to have found a bigger, better way, Vaj sure spends a lot of time around here. I guess it must be dullsville where he has officially established his credentials, and so he comes here for kicks. But that does say something about his main sqeeze by my way of thinking. Of course here, he can throw around big names and concepts, and I don't really know (or care) what he is talking about. But it must make him feel important. He appears learned in those areas, and maybe he doesn't have an outlet elsewhere. Don't be so uptight. It might help to check out the front page for this group Ray. It's not a TM-only discussion group. If anything it's more of a TM Watch - or whatever watch. Interesting you don't seem to respond directly to my comment. Why do YOU think his primary followers and pundits said he went to heaven? Last minute conversion to Christianity? Not enough time in the day to meditate? Enlighten us!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
On Jan 29, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Peter wrote: What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. I don't believe he would have approved of him teaching. But I'm sure his proximity helped him gain some spiritual power.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
Guru Dev was extremely powerful to create the momentum for Maharishi. Do you honestly think that someone such as Brahmananda Saraswati would've have been overly concerned about Maharishi teaching? The world is far larger than that to Guru Dev. Such a thing is just another working of the Cosmos to him. Why would he have more than one thought on the subject? If he had wanted Maharishi to teach, Maharishi would have taught. No question. And he did. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Jan 29, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Peter wrote: What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. I don't believe he would have approved of him teaching. But I'm sure his proximity helped him gain some spiritual power.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote: Nah, Maharishi was fully enlightened. He showed me his vast, blazing enlightenment. What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. Yeah, you KNOW MMY was enlightened, how so? It used to be said that in order to know if someone was enlightened, you yourself would have to be enlightened, are you enlightened Dr. Peter? I doubt it, at any rate, MMY never said he was enlightened, the best clue we have to what MMY's state of consciousness was is his book Love and God. It sounds like it there, but in the final analysis, nobody knows and nobody will know, MMY will always be an enigma, which I think in itself is kind of a disservice, FWIW. It would have been better if he had been upfront about it, one way or the other, IMO.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Guru Dev was extremely powerful to create the momentum for Maharishi. Do you honestly think that someone such as Brahmananda Saraswati would've have been overly concerned about Maharishi teaching? The world is far larger than that to Guru Dev. Such a thing is just another working of the Cosmos to him. Why would he have more than one thought on the subject? If he had wanted Maharishi to teach, Maharishi would have taught. No question. And he did. :-) Well, according to Charlie, SBS was a Master of Masters, yes, a *Master of Masters* AND he had/knew all the techniques to enlightenment AND he personally gave TM to MMY. No proof what-so-ever of this, but hey, it makes a good story, I guess,...I don't know!! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: Don't be so uptight. It might help to check out the front page for this group Ray. It's not a TM-only discussion group. If anything it's more of a TM Watch - or whatever watch. Interesting you don't seem to respond directly to my comment. Why do YOU think his primary followers and pundits said he went to heaven? Last minute conversion to Christianity? Not enough time in the day to meditate? Enlighten us! Uptight! Uptight! Who You Calling Uptight?! Now, to answer your question. Doesn't everybody go to heaven? As I understand it everybody gets to experience some heaven, and some hell. The degree and order and length depend on yo karma. And then it's back to the wheel to work on settling accounts and learning some lessons, unless one gets promoted, so to speak.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
Hey, who needs a fly on the wall, when you have such clear access to the akashic records. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Guru Dev was extremely powerful to create the momentum for Maharishi. Do you honestly think that someone such as Brahmananda Saraswati would've have been overly concerned about Maharishi teaching? The world is far larger than that to Guru Dev. Such a thing is just another working of the Cosmos to him. Why would he have more than one thought on the subject? If he had wanted Maharishi to teach, Maharishi would have taught. No question. And he did. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 29, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Peter wrote: What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. I don't believe he would have approved of him teaching. But I'm sure his proximity helped him gain some spiritual power.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
Heh heh I always get a kick out of your dry as sand wit, steve! I wouldn't even know at what rpm the akashic record plays. This statement is based on my sense of Guru Dev. Nothing more. It isn't meant to be definitive to anyone other than myself. Nonetheless, it is real enough to me, or was, for me to write down the way I have observed him. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Hey, who needs a fly on the wall, when you have such clear access to the akashic records. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Guru Dev was extremely powerful to create the momentum for Maharishi. Do you honestly think that someone such as Brahmananda Saraswati would've have been overly concerned about Maharishi teaching? The world is far larger than that to Guru Dev. Such a thing is just another working of the Cosmos to him. Why would he have more than one thought on the subject? If he had wanted Maharishi to teach, Maharishi would have taught. No question. And he did. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 29, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Peter wrote: What, You think Guru Dev made a chump? No, Maharishi was Guru Dev's darshan. I don't believe he would have approved of him teaching. But I'm sure his proximity helped him gain some spiritual power.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
MMY tried to seduce Western Culture (and India) into adopting MMY Vedic Culture, he didn't come to the West to enlighten Joe Blow (you)as much as you might like to think. Taking everything i've seen in the TMO into consideration, I became convinced that the whole approach was one of two things: 1. They're trying to make a lot of money and develop an elitist organization with an inner circle that they are a part of and in control of. 2. Their approach to helping the world is like trying to become rich and win the lottery rather than work hard and diligently and intelligently towards the goal (like get a job, a degree, something like that). There always had to be a new mastermind plan involving the influence of government, always trying to think up something new that would instantly alter life on earth overnight. It just never dawned on the TMO to just make TM available, practice it, live it, and people will see as time goes on, and it could blossom as time goes on. I also think there was a lot of anxiety in the last years of MMY's life that he would never get to see the full benefit of his programs (although I think we may have already seen as far as it's going to go, but I hope i'm wrong). And he made no bones about it, his distaste for Western Democracies is well known. To do this he only taught the most simple techniques of Yoga (still very valuable). Yes, I became quite disgusted with his constant anger towards our culture. I have the same anger too, but I don't take it that personal that America is the way it is. India isn't doing that well either, but we don't go to his country and whine about their problems. I really took MMY's complaints about our government not adopting his offers as a grown man crying over spilt milk. As a Guru (whether you consider him one or not) I expect a little more maturity and acceptance of life's curve balls than what I witnessed in him during his later years. It is important, however, to pay attention to the fact that he never really went on any rants of anger until around the late 80's early 90's from what I remember. Before that it was all about TM and enlightenment, and that's about it. Simple Mantra japa, though a good start, is far from knowing how to consciously withdraw to Samadhi. Most Westerners aren't ready for a Sat-Guru anyway and he probably knew that, (the demands a Sat-Guru places on a disciple aren't just *effortless*, ha, ha)! That's a good point. There were a lot of 'fairy tale' believers running around in the TMO who thought they were just going to glide right into enlightenment automatically because someone told them they will. Many of those people believed in the whole 100% effortless lifestyle that achieving enlightenment is supposed to give you. Many of those people, to include friends and family of mine, are now finding themselves in their 40's and 50's with no money, no job skills, no significant attributes to rely on, and no wealthy parents around to take care of them, and they're living a poor economy. It would be easy to blame it all on MMY, the TMO, or some of the people in the TMO elite inner circle. But i've always said that if you walk down a rough neighborhood dressed nicely with money in your wallet, it's going to get taken every time. You can curse the thug who took it, but you're the idiot who kept walking down the same street. You could meditate 2X20 for a million years and not achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi and MMY even said as much in Fuiggi Fonte, Italy. That brings up another good point. When I was a student at MIU/MUM I remember a lot of anxiety going around regarding whether or not someone would attain enlightenment in this lifetime. Later in life, while studying Vedic teachings from someone else, I was exposed to the concept of Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha was supposed to be the Hindu equivelant of 'Heaven', and sometimes 'enlightenment'. According to the author, Vaikuntha directly translates as 'No Anxiety'. So essentially, 'enlightenment' and 'heaven' is the same thing as 'No Anxiety'. Yet it seemed to me that there was a lot of anxiety running around the TMO regarding whether or not we were doing enough for enlightenment, world peace, meditating enough, etc In other words, we were putting ourselves in a state of anxiety in order to achieve a state of no anxiety. seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: That brings up another good point. When I was a student at MIU/MUM I remember a lot of anxiety going around regarding whether or not someone would attain enlightenment in this lifetime. Later in life, while studying Vedic teachings from someone else, I was exposed to the concept of Vaikuntha. Vaikuntha was supposed to be the Hindu equivelant of 'Heaven', and sometimes 'enlightenment'. According to the author, Vaikuntha directly translates as 'No Anxiety'. So essentially, 'enlightenment' and 'heaven' is the same thing as 'No Anxiety'. Yet it seemed to me that there was a lot of anxiety running around the TMO regarding whether or not we were doing enough for enlightenment, world peace, meditating enough, etc In other words, we were putting ourselves in a state of anxiety in order to achieve a state of no anxiety. Excellent point, best one made here in quite some time...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Like a man dying of thirst in the desert, is given a canteen of water, slakes his thirst and then complains about the color of the canteen! Or, like a man who gives you a boat with one oar. Or, how about a man who gives you a three legged dog? :-) At any rate, you get my point, uh, no. I get Peter's point, (well, you know what I mean), and I think it is a damn fine point give credit where credit is due, but see it for what it is. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi was a manipulator.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wgm4u@... wrote: MMY tried to seduce Western Culture (and India) into adopting MMY Vedic Culture, he didn't come to the West to enlighten Joe Blow (you)as much as you might like to think. And he made no bones about it, his distaste for Western Democracies is well known. To do this he only taught the most simple techniques of Yoga (still very valuable). And he never did advance a technique for recluses (monks like Guru Dev). Why? you may ask, and ask, and ask,? well, we will never know! MMY was an enigma, and the speculation will continue about him until the cows come home! Simple Mantra japa, though a good start, is far from knowing how to consciously withdraw to Samadhi. Most Westerners aren't ready for a Sat-Guru anyway and he probably knew that, (the demands a Sat-Guru places on a disciple aren't just *effortless*, ha, ha)! You could meditate 2X20 for a million years and not achieve Nirvikalpa Samadhi How do you know? and MMY even said as much in Fuiggi Fonte, Italy. And how would HE know? Lawson
