[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
New Morning et al snipped : But my view doesn't include a "SHOULD", its more of a visionary "could". TomT: Absolutely agree. But in order to spring fully into the could I find I need to see the perfection of what IS and not as a static IS but an everchanging, ever perfect IS. As one friend recently commented. The only thing he is absolutely sure is the very next moment. After that all bets are off as IS likes to keep it all in ever changing change. New M et al: Thats a nice poetic vision. But clearly you are not offering it up as an inevitable, tightly honed causal relationship. Tom T; That is exactly what I am saying and that was the message I heard from her. It is also my experience of how I live my life. Since this all me the closest and most effective place to work on the could is right here at home inside (or outside depending on the day)the one thing I have the most knowledge about and the greatest place I have the chance of seeing my could is right here and now on my obvious defects of character. Change it here and it changes there. Really too simple and the easiest place to focus. Find out what part of me the could can come to life in and then see what happens to the rest of Me. New: Sort of parallel to, greatly paraphrasing, "the consciousness of christ stretch so tightly over the entire surface and scope of the universes it makes you shiver. -- per larry of madision. Tom: Actually it is scary as heck. It will change how you see the creation when it is all You. Enjoy Tom PS: Will be traveling for 10 days starting Thursday so I may not a chance to respond for a while.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
Tom, thanks for you reply. Thoughts (not arguments) below. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > New Morning et al: writes snipped > ___Thus, for example, I understand, directly, that thoughts, and > the subset of thoughts called desires, is not from any > individualities' effort. Thus, the nuance, that "might" be sympathetic > and understanding of Jim's and Rory's apparent position of: they don't > desire the end to suffering in Iraq because they are not in control of > such a desire, and such a thought never arose in them. > > (On of the several things that is odd, IMO, here is that EVEN if the > thought to end suffering did not arise in them, at all, through > natural observation and interaction with the world, then at least it > was introduced to them as a possibility in the on-line discussion. And > yet "the thought to help the suffering in Iraq never arises in me, > thus how can I fulfill that desire" is the thought that still arises > in them.) > > TomT: > In the past I have shared here an experience at the end of a Byron > Katie weekend workshop where she asked three questions of the 100+ > folks on the weekend. 1. Who is Happy with their weight? 2. Who is > happy with the way they look? 3. WHo is happy with their life?. If you > are happy leave your hand down, if you answered No to any of the > question then put up your hand. There were only three hands down in a > sea of NO's. most folks were unhappy with their lot after a full > weekend of focusing on Loving What IS. Its a nice story and demonstrates a good point. And, as in prior discussions, there are a number of things to love in what IS. I choose to love the IS that IS -- AND for which i see has inherent -- deep within itself -- power to constantly and eternally change, and transform itself in to ever new possibilities. The forms of life, superficial or deep, will always change. Pick your flavor perhaps. I sense others, from their words, love a more static IS. Thats their POV and "choice". I wish them well. My view, its certainly open for discussion, is that we can also choose to direct that eternal change, in our little domain of things, towards the "positive". I know that statement is setting of 5 -alarm sirens in your head because, to you perhaps, that choice implies a "should", a bad ,bad word in your vocabulary, I know. But my view doesn't include a "SHOULD", its more of a visionary "could". In simple terms, what I view as positive, and any skills and resources which I have to enable change towards the positive, I have three choices with regards to deploying such: to use, not use, or do the opposite -- that is, work for what i believe to be negative outcomes. I am not offering up my view of the "Good" as Truth, or without good alternatives. To me its a "Wisdom of the Crowds" dynamic which has received a lot of substaniation in recent years. In this application, the the Wisdom of Crowds -- where everyone choosing to make a positive contribution -- may result in may different types of actions, some of them, many perhaps being contradictory. But as a whole, errors tend to cancel out and a greater good is achieved, a smarter decisions is made, than even if the smartest, brightest single person in the universe made it and said "this Should Be". That is another aspect or flavor of what is Perfect in the Now and its eternal unfoldment Thus per your example, I AM ecstatically HAPPY with my weight, appearance, and life. These are three things are the current outcomes of a fantastic, miraculous ancient journey through what I view as a result of utterly stunnning )"perfect if you will" evolutionary dynamics () of matter and soul) (which may include a lot of random factors, I am not talking determinism). What could not be more Perfect that what is currently at that current, yet always changing end-state? At the crest of that wave? But is this Perfect Now going to change? In form, yes, of course, always, eternally. "Fasten your set belts its going to be a bumpy ride "as the Seer BD cognized. The manifest form of the wave will/ It will always be changing, On the other hand, there is eternal satisfaction and glee of always being on the crest of the wave of Now. That perfection and the "surge" from riding the eternal Now will Never change. All sorts of possibilities exist for that change. My weight could balloon to 400 lb. Or shrink to 90. if that happened, then the forces behind it would be "perfect". But I can also nudge the wave, put a little slight pressure, an indentation towards the left or right. (Not that I am doing or desiring such -- but thats another theme -- where do thoughts really come from and are they mine?) I can nudge towards losing 20 lb or gaining 20 lb. Or more. And that inherent possibility in this Moment, nudge Eternal change, is Very Perfect. It is an inherent part of what IS. The Eternal sameness and the eternal changiness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Some additional things that came up whilst the eyes were closed. In > chapter 2 of Patanjali verses 34 and 35 (close quess as my copy is > still in a box somewhere). #34 goes like this. When the person is > established in truthfulness all actions achieve the desired results. > #35 When the person is established in integrity all riches flow. Again > this not a prescription but rather a description of how the awakening > unfolds. > Toms Take: > Until we are established in truthfulness about our dark sided monsters > how can we achieve the desired result of saving the earth. First we > know the truth about who we are light and dark both and then we can be > in integrity about our actions. Until we are willing to tell ourselves > the truth about us raw and uncensored we can not achieve the desired > result. We don't have to tell others but we need to discover the truth > for our own self. Tom > I feel like the guy in the Southern Baptist church shouting, "amen brother!"-- seriously, been focused on just what you are talking about, lately. And finding that by seeing clearly who I am, vs. who I wanted to think I am, I am more easily able to chart my course, having more freedom with regard to each sequence of events that I undertake, and how I can manage their unfoldment. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
Some additional things that came up whilst the eyes were closed. In chapter 2 of Patanjali verses 34 and 35 (close quess as my copy is still in a box somewhere). #34 goes like this. When the person is established in truthfulness all actions achieve the desired results. #35 When the person is established in integrity all riches flow. Again this not a prescription but rather a description of how the awakening unfolds. Toms Take: Until we are established in truthfulness about our dark sided monsters how can we achieve the desired result of saving the earth. First we know the truth about who we are light and dark both and then we can be in integrity about our actions. Until we are willing to tell ourselves the truth about us raw and uncensored we can not achieve the desired result. We don't have to tell others but we need to discover the truth for our own self. Tom
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
--- In
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 45. When a Shiva-yogi is completely established in God
Consciousness,
> he experiences this state spontaneously within and without or both.
>
> I take verse 45 to mean that some will see all things inside them.
> others will see all things as me but appearing to be outside as
> opposed to inside me, and some will have it both ways. Rory and I
got
> into it one day in a conversation as he definitely sees it all
inside
> him. I on the other hand see it as all me but my inside is
splattered
> all over creation so it feels like it is outside. When I finally
found
> the above reference in verse 45 it all made sense and we both could
> then understand the other. TOm T
> PS by the way verses 41 and 42 are not a prescription but a
> description of how it goes down.
>
Hi Tom, Thanks for this invaluable bit of research. My view is like
yours in that it is all me, but distinctly outside. I've been
contrasting mine with Rory's for awhile ("not that there's anything
wrong with it..."), and kept reaching the same conclusion as you
did, vis a vis verse 45.:-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-Annihilation of Everything Worth Anyth
New Morning et al: writes snipped ___Thus, for example, I understand, directly, that thoughts, and the subset of thoughts called desires, is not from any individualities' effort. Thus, the nuance, that "might" be sympathetic and understanding of Jim's and Rory's apparent position of: they don't desire the end to suffering in Iraq because they are not in control of such a desire, and such a thought never arose in them. (On of the several things that is odd, IMO, here is that EVEN if the thought to end suffering did not arise in them, at all, through natural observation and interaction with the world, then at least it was introduced to them as a possibility in the on-line discussion. And yet "the thought to help the suffering in Iraq never arises in me, thus how can I fulfill that desire" is the thought that still arises in them.) TomT: In the past I have shared here an experience at the end of a Byron Katie weekend workshop where she asked three questions of the 100+ folks on the weekend. 1. Who is Happy with their weight? 2. Who is happy with the way they look? 3. WHo is happy with their life?. If you are happy leave your hand down, if you answered No to any of the question then put up your hand. There were only three hands down in a sea of NO's. most folks were unhappy with their lot after a full weekend of focusing on Loving What IS. By the way Byron announced to the entire group that when they could be happy with the hand that was dealt to them then the War in Iraq was over for them. There seems to be an understanding that comes with the knowledge of who you are that it is all me and the only place I can fix is in me. The only place I have any control over is in me. The best thing one can do for all of creation is to deal with my monsters inside me and see how that changes me and the universe. The final verses of the Shiva sutras states it in a way that I find appealing. Third awakening from Swami Lakshmanjoo version 40. By the slight appearance of individual desire, one is carried far away from the state of God Consciousness. 41. By firmly establishing one's own Self in the state of Turiya, all desires disappear and individuality is lost into universality. 42. Such a yogi is liberated in life and as his body still exists, his is called bhuta-kanchuki - having his physical body as a mere covering just like an ordinary blanket. Hence he is supreme and one with the universal Self. 43. After remaining in this state of universal Transcendental God Consciousness, the functions of inhalation and exhalation automatically take place with the object that this whole universe of action and cognition is united in God Consciousness. 44. When one contemplates on the center of Universal Consciousness, what else remains there to be sought in the practice of prana, apana, and sushumna? 45. When a Shiva-yogi is completely established in God Consciousness, he experiences this state spontaneously within and without or both. I take verse 45 to mean that some will see all things inside them. others will see all things as me but appearing to be outside as opposed to inside me, and some will have it both ways. Rory and I got into it one day in a conversation as he definitely sees it all inside him. I on the other hand see it as all me but my inside is splattered all over creation so it feels like it is outside. When I finally found the above reference in verse 45 it all made sense and we both could then understand the other. TOm T PS by the way verses 41 and 42 are not a prescription but a description of how it goes down.
