[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268 Typical TM see-what-we-want-to-see-ness. It's clear that whoever wrote While some focused blame only on the gunman, world opinion over U.S. gun laws was almost unanimous: Access to weapons increases the probability of shootings has ever seen Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine. In that film he makes the point that Canada has almost exactly the *same* percentage of gun ownership per population as the US, but does *not* have anything even *close* to America's problems with gun-related violence. It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. If they didn't have access to guns they'd use knives and if they didn't have access to knives they'd use sticks and clubs and their own fists.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest george.deforest@ wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268 Typical TM see-what-we-want-to-see-ness. It's clear that whoever wrote While some focused blame only on the gunman, world opinion over U.S. gun laws was almost unanimous: Access to weapons increases the probability of shootings has ever seen Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine. In that film he makes the point that Canada has almost exactly the *same* percentage of gun ownership per population as the US, but does *not* have anything even *close* to America's problems with gun-related violence. It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. If they didn't have access to guns they'd use knives and if they didn't have access to knives they'd use sticks and clubs and their own fists. Although I didn't come away from seeing Bowling for Columbine with the same impression of common sense from Michael Moore as you did, I concur completely with your last paragraph. Indeed, if you factor out the most violent crimes and those most associated with guns, the crime rate between the U.S. and Canada, per capita, it's even a little higher in several categories in Canada. See table below. Note also that the most serious and violent crimes (the top three categories below) only represent about 6% of all crimes. 94% of the crimes are the bottome three categories and Canada is higher in all of them except other theft (where it is, basically, a dead heat). In fact, if you factor in the 3% of the U.S. population (estimated at about 10 million) of illegal immigrants in the U.S. that are NOT included in census figures (upon which these stats are based), the figures are even worse for Canada. Crime rate comparisons between Canada and the United States 2000 Canada United StatesReal terms Rate(1) Real terms Rate(1) Homicide 542 1.8 15,517 5.5 Aggravated assault(2) 43,933 143 910,744 324 Robbery 27,012 88 407,842 145 Break and enter 293,416 954 2,049,946 728 Motor vehicle theft 160,268 521 1,165,559 414 Other theft 683,997 2,224 6,965,957 2,475 Arson 13,724 45 78,280 321 Rates are per 100,000 population. 2 For comparison purposes, the Canadian category of aggravated assault includes attempted murder, assault with a weapon and aggravated assault. from:http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/011218/d011218b.htm
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268 Typical TM see-what-we-want-to-see-ness. It's clear that whoever wrote While some focused blame only on the gunman, world opinion over U.S. gun laws was almost unanimous: Access to weapons increases the probability of shootings has ever seen Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine. In that film he makes the point that Canada has almost exactly the *same* percentage of gun ownership per population as the US, but does *not* have anything even *close* to America's problems with gun-related violence. It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. If they didn't have access to guns they'd use knives and if they didn't have access to knives they'd use sticks and clubs and their own fists. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. You're saying foreigners are more likely to commit gun violence than Americans? You're way off on your world crime statistics.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:01 AM, boo_lives wrote: It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. You're saying foreigners are more likely to commit gun violence than Americans? You're way off on your world crime statistics. Not to mention that referring to him as a foreigner is really misleading. Officials say Cho Seung-hui, 23, was an English major at Virginia Tech who came to the U.S. in 1992 with his family and settled in Centreville, Va. School officials say he lived on campus in Harper Hall. Cho, 23, was a permanent U.S. resident who was born in South Korea and moved to the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington in 1992. Which would have made him about 8 or 9 when he came over. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/04/17/shooter/ http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/04/17/koreans_fleeing/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:19 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:01 AM, boo_lives wrote: It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. You're saying foreigners are more likely to commit gun violence than Americans? You're way off on your world crime statistics. Not to mention that referring to him as a foreigner is really misleading. Officials say Cho Seung-hui, 23, was an English major at Virginia Tech who came to the U.S. in 1992 with his family and settled in Centreville, Va. School officials say he lived on campus in Harper Hall. As a point of interest, my sister lives in Centreville and said the following (Ryan and Collin are her sons): Thank you all for calling with concern for Ryan. He goes to James Madison U. but has many friends at VT. Collin went to Tech. and is of course watching in all the news in Boulder. It turns out the shooter is from Centreville and was in Ryan's high school class. Ryan said he remembers him as very wierd. Two of the victims also went to his H.S. One was the sister of a former soccer team mate of Ryan's. Very sad. There is a huge Korean population in Centreville, getting bigger every day.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Barry wrote:] It's not the guns, it's their owners. Americans use their guns to kill people with because they're Americans and that's just what Americans DO. The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. According to the INTERPOL data, crime rate per 100,000 population in 2000: South Korea U.S. Murder 1.99 5.51 Rape4.86 32.05 Robbery11.55144.92 Aggravated assault 68.63323.60 Burglary7.43728.42 Larceny 296.96 1,401.26 All offenses 391.42 4,123.97 http://www- rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/asia_pacific/south_korea.html http://tinyurl.com/3bucso Cho Seung-liu immigrated to the U.S. with his family when he was 8 years old. He was a foreigner, but he was a permanent legal resident alien. The majority of school shooters in the U.S. are Americans (including in the worst massacres, e.g., the Texas bell tower and Columbine shootings). In South Korea, citizens may not own guns privately. There have been no known school shootings in South Korea. From Reuters: Asians fear backlash after Virginia Tech shooting Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:00PM EDT By Andrea Hopkins BLACKSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - Virginia Tech student Jiyoun Yoo was terrified when she heard a gunman had rampaged through her campus, killing 32 people. When news broke on Tuesday that the gunman was a South Korean student, her fear took a new direction. I'm from South Korea, so I am a little bit scared, said Yoo, 24, as she walked on campus. Only one person was responsible for the massacre, she said, but maybe it will affect all South Korean students If he speaks Korean, we'd maybe know him, but none of us does, she said. She said her family in Seoul had called overnight, very concerned Yoo might be a target if there was a backlash against Asian students at Virginia Tech. It is big news in South Korea. Yesterday they were worried if I'm safe, now they are worried there might be a risk that I'm South Korean, said Yoo. In Seoul, the South Korean government also expressed fears of a backlash. We are working closely with our diplomatic missions and local Korean residents' associations in anticipation of any situation that may arise, a Foreign Ministry official said http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1740954120070417 http://tinyurl.com/2vvx75
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
In a message dated 4/18/07 10:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. It wasn't his culture, it was his mind. They guy was mentally ill. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wasn't his culture, it was his mind. The guy was mentally ill. While I agree, as an American Ex-pat By Choice I have to try to remind those still living within the mindculture of America that this particular brand of mental illness is the first thing that most of the human beings on the planet Earth think of when they think of America. It's sad...near heartbreaking...to have to write that. It's sadder that it's probably accurate. I don't know about you guys, but I've spent my time since reading about this latest outrage not trying to find someone or something to blame, be it gun laws or immigrants or crazies, but trying to comprehend and somehow come to a sense of comfort with the sense of uncomfortableness that this latest news of the land of my birth has left me with. The closest I can come is Ani DiFranco's anthemic 'Tis Of Thee, one of the most compassionate song/poems I've ever heard. It won't really work for you without the music, but if you can find it online, I highly recommend it. But follow it up with her song Everest, just to balance things out... They caught the last poor man On a poor man's vacation They cuffed him and they confiscated his stuff They dragged his black ass down to the station And said, ok, the streets are safe now All your pretty white children can come out and see Spot run And they came out of their houses And they looked around But they didn't see no one My country 'tis of thee To take swings at each other on the talkshow TV Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you Above 96th street They're handing out smallpox blankets so people don't freeze The old dogs have got a new trick It's called criminalize the symptoms While you spread the disease And I hold on hard to something Between my teeth when I'm sleeping I wake up and my jaw aches And the earth is full of earthquakes My country 'tis of thee To take shots at each other on the primetime tv Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you They caught the last poor man Flying away in a shiny red cape They took him down to the station And they said, boy, you should've known better Than to try to escape I ran away with the circus Cuz there's still some honest work left for bearded ladies but Its not the same going town to town Since they put everyone in jail Except the Cleavers and the Brady's My country 'tis of thee To take swings at each other on the talkshow tv Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/18/07 10:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. It wasn't his culture, it was his mind. They guy was mentally ill. Very obviously mentally ill for quite some time. Paranoid personality disorder. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
In a message dated 4/18/2007 12:52:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com) , [EMAIL PROTECTED], MDi It wasn't his culture, it was his mind. The guy was mentally ill. While I agree, as an American Ex-pat By Choice I have to try to remind those still living within the mindculture of America that this particular brand of mental illness is the first thing that most of the human beings on the planet Earth think of when they think of America. It's sad...near heartbreaking.It's sad...near heartbr that. It's sadder that it's probably accurate. I don't know about you guys, but I've spent my time since reading about this latest outrage not trying to find someone or something to blame, be it gun laws or immigrants or crazies, but trying to comprehend and somehow come to a sense of comfort with the sense of uncomfortableness that this latest news of the land of my birth has left me with. The closest I can come is Ani DiFranco's anthemic 'Tis Of Thee, one of the most compassionate song/poems I've ever heard. It won't really work for you without the music, but if you can find it online, I highly recommend it. But follow it up with her song Everest, just to balance things out... They caught the last poor man On a poor man's vacation They cuffed him and they confiscated his stuff They dragged his black ass down to the station And said, ok, the streets are safe now All your pretty white children can come out and see Spot run And they came out of their houses And they looked around But they didn't see no one My country 'tis of thee To take swings at each other on the talkshow TV Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you Above 96th street They're handing out smallpox blankets so people don't freeze The old dogs have got a new trick It's called criminalize the symptoms While you spread the disease And I hold on hard to something Between my teeth when I'm sleeping I wake up and my jaw aches And the earth is full of earthquakes My country 'tis of thee To take shots at each other on the primetime tv Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you They caught the last poor man Flying away in a shiny red cape They took him down to the station And they said, boy, you should've known better Than to try to escape I ran away with the circus Cuz there's still some honest work left for bearded ladies but Its not the same going town to town Since they put everyone in jail Except the Cleavers and the Brady's My country 'tis of thee To take swings at each other on the talkshow tv Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun Cuz we'll never live long enough To undo everything they've done to you Undo everything they've done to you And you think I'm the one they should reject from the dome. ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote: The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. I didn't even want to touch that one as it seemed there was so much inherent prejudice in the last 2 sentences. It's hard to imagine the mindset of someone who would say that, much less actually believe it. Reminds me of the OKC bombing, when it seemed everyone was convinced the perp must have been some crazy Arab national hell-bent on killing Americans. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 4/18/07 10:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [gullible fool wrote:] The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. [I wrote:] OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. It wasn't his culture, it was his mind. They guy was mentally ill. OF COURSE it wasn't his culture. That's why I posted the crime stats. South Korea has *vastly* less crime, including murders, than the U.S. Citizens aren't allowed to have guns, and there's never been a school shooting in South Korea. WaPo just reported that he'd been admitted to a psychiatric hospital two years ago because he seemed suicidal after two women had reported him to the campus police for stalking them (by phone, apparently). He had clearly had mental problems for quite some time. (MDixon, because you didn't include the attribution line for gulliblefool, your post made it appear that I had said what he'd said, when in fact I was disagreeing with him strenuously.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
Here's the conservative argument: arm the good guys. This, from the city where I work: http://tinyurl.com/ys7gvp At least nine bullets were fired in a shootout Saturday morning at a downtown bar that ended with the gunman who allegedly instigated the shooting hospitalized after he was shot twice by another customer. It's ironic to see the TMO decry our gun culture. Cultural integrity was once a strong component of Maharishi's teaching. The TMO could just as easily accept our culture, however foreign it may seem to others, in the name of respecting cultural integrity. Just add TM and guns would be used responsibly, I can hear the idealistic young TM teachers saying. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268 ** The Fairfield Ledger published an editorial condemning the sharp objects culture at MUM which cost a student's life in March 2004. Said the editor, Given the shaky mental health of many in the TM community, only the cooks at MUM should have knives, and those should only be on an as-needed basis for cutting veggies in a secure area. Pencils and pens should also be banned. Students can use crayons or the keyboard to complete assignments. How many MUM students will have to die before this careless availability of sharp objects will finally be contained?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
I remember a great bumper sticker that was popular on the M.I.U. campus in the winter of 1977-78: Support the Right to Arm Bears. Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the conservative argument: arm the good guys. This, from the city where I work: http://tinyurl.com/ys7gvp At least nine bullets were fired in a shootout Saturday morning at a downtown bar that ended with the gunman who allegedly instigated the shooting hospitalized after he was shot twice by another customer. It's ironic to see the TMO decry our gun culture. Cultural integrity was once a strong component of Maharishi's teaching. The TMO could just as easily accept our culture, however foreign it may seem to others, in the name of respecting cultural integrity. Just add TM and guns would be used responsibly, I can hear the idealistic young TM teachers saying. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, george_deforest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America's gun control laws criticized abroad 17 April 2007 - The shooting of 32 students at a US university campus, Virginia Tech, sparked criticism of US gun control laws around the world Tuesday. Editorials lashed out at the availability of weapons, and the leader of Australia--one of America's closest allies--declared that America's gun culture was costing lives ... continues at: http://globalgoodnews.com/world-peace-a.html?art=117683948813516268 - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM good news site blames US gun culture
I didn't even want to touch that one as it seemed there was so much inherent prejudice in the last 2 sentences. My attention was not to criticize the culture of the man's birth country, only to refute the statement some were making here that this kind of thing is just so very American. Sure, it happens here, but it happens elsewhere, too, and when it happens here, it's often by people who came from other countries. --- Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote: The perpetrator in this case was not an American. He was a foreigner, something I suspected as soon as I was made aware of this incident. Examine his culture. OK, let's examine the crime culture of South Korea as compared with that of the U.S. I didn't even want to touch that one as it seemed there was so much inherent prejudice in the last 2 sentences. It's hard to imagine the mindset of someone who would say that, much less actually believe it. Reminds me of the OKC bombing, when it seemed everyone was convinced the perp must have been some crazy Arab national hell-bent on killing Americans. Sal __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
