Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-10-01 Thread Michael Jackson
Well I'll be darned! So EFT is magic - who would-a thunk it. Here in the 
states, EFT is being used by a number of different clinics and programs 
treating vets with PTSD.





 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 10:53 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re I also used EFT tapping to deal with cookie cravings :   

Share, EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) IS PRECISELY MAGICK in Crowley's 
sense!  

Look, you want to achieve some result (say, to stop gorging on cookies). You 
decide on some ritual (it's arbitrary what you choose - you could have decided 
to recite backwards the first paragraph of George W. Bush's memoir while 
standing on your head, but let's say you choose the EFT technique) and you say 
to yourself: Performing *this* ritual IS EQUIVALENT TO stopping my craving for 
cookies. You do the ritual (in your case the EFT routine) and your 
subconscious (which ignores surface, conscious rationalisation which is 
thinking: what the fuck am I doing this idiotic rigmarole for?) automatically 
follows through. The ritual means: I don't want cookies; and afterwards 
abracadabra you don't want cookies! It is so simple that people naturally 
dismiss it out of hand as worthless. Those who have actually tried it (like 
you!) found that it is effective. 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, 5 yrs ago the doc told me I was headed for Type 2 diabetes. So the 
first week of my new diet, I ate no sugar or carbs or dairy. Right away my body 
looked better and that motivated me to continue dieting, not as strictly as I 
had, but I return to that strategy when I need to. I also used EFT tapping to 
deal with cookie cravings. When I stopped smoking about 40 yrs ago, I NEVER 
wanted another cigarette which I think was just grace.





 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re Steve Sundur's  Hey Judy, sorry for any nastiness. Seraphita's analysis of 
the book touched on some of the reasons I did like the book.  Addiction issues 
have always been of interest to me . . . when the discussion of this book came 
up before, many years ago, I was more confident that the modality put forth in 
the book could be effective.:

If we are still talking about Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend, I mentioned 
above that he himself never lost his heroin habit. The drug was prescribed for 
his asthma so maybe he never had a fighting chance to stay clean. 

Curiously, I used the Beast's ideas when I quit smoking. The gist of Crowley's 
thinking here is that when a man (say) decides to stop a drug habit (let's say 
smoking) his surface consciousness comes up with lots of reasons - my clothes 
stink/it's an expensive habit/I'm coughing up phlegm/ . . . - but his deeper 
nature (his True Will) is actually rather keen on puffing away. The man has set 
up an uneven contest that he's destined to lose.

When I stopped smoking I did two things. First I decided to only stop for a 
week. That way it couldn't be any worse than having a dose of flu and there 
wouldn't be that nagging, horrid thought I will never again know the pleasure 
of inhaling on a cigarette. Secondly, as I've always been inordinately curious 
about whatever takes my fancy doesn't that suggest inordinate curiosity is part 
of my True Will? So I thought, I'll treat the experience of going cold turkey 
as if I'd just ingested a novel, experimental drug and I had to keep track and 
report back on what the effects were. In other words, I made the quitting into 
a game - and a game that would just be a short, sharp shock. At the end of the 
week I'd (more-or-less) sailed through the adventure and I knew I'd never smoke 
a cigarette again. Hey, maybe I should set up shop as an addiction counsellor!




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-10-01 Thread Share Long
Seraphita, that's very cool about rituals and the subconscious. I would LOVE to 
see that tested with an fMRI machine. Regarding EFT, as you probably know, it 
involves tapping the meridian points of TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine). So 
maybe we could call it Ritual Plus!





 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:53 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re I also used EFT tapping to deal with cookie cravings :   

Share, EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) IS PRECISELY MAGICK in Crowley's 
sense!  

Look, you want to achieve some result (say, to stop gorging on cookies). You 
decide on some ritual (it's arbitrary what you choose - you could have decided 
to recite backwards the first paragraph of George W. Bush's memoir while 
standing on your head, but let's say you choose the EFT technique) and you say 
to yourself: Performing *this* ritual IS EQUIVALENT TO stopping my craving for 
cookies. You do the ritual (in your case the EFT routine) and your 
subconscious (which ignores surface, conscious rationalisation which is 
thinking: what the fuck am I doing this idiotic rigmarole for?) automatically 
follows through. The ritual means: I don't want cookies; and afterwards 
abracadabra you don't want cookies! It is so simple that people naturally 
dismiss it out of hand as worthless. Those who have actually tried it (like 
you!) found that it is effective. 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, 5 yrs ago the doc told me I was headed for Type 2 diabetes. So the 
first week of my new diet, I ate no sugar or carbs or dairy. Right away my body 
looked better and that motivated me to continue dieting, not as strictly as I 
had, but I return to that strategy when I need to. I also used EFT tapping to 
deal with cookie cravings. When I stopped smoking about 40 yrs ago, I NEVER 
wanted another cigarette which I think was just grace.





 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re Steve Sundur's  Hey Judy, sorry for any nastiness. Seraphita's analysis of 
the book touched on some of the reasons I did like the book.  Addiction issues 
have always been of interest to me . . . when the discussion of this book came 
up before, many years ago, I was more confident that the modality put forth in 
the book could be effective.:

If we are still talking about Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend, I mentioned 
above that he himself never lost his heroin habit. The drug was prescribed for 
his asthma so maybe he never had a fighting chance to stay clean. 

Curiously, I used the Beast's ideas when I quit smoking. The gist of Crowley's 
thinking here is that when a man (say) decides to stop a drug habit (let's say 
smoking) his surface consciousness comes up with lots of reasons - my clothes 
stink/it's an expensive habit/I'm coughing up phlegm/ . . . - but his deeper 
nature (his True Will) is actually rather keen on puffing away. The man has set 
up an uneven contest that he's destined to lose.

When I stopped smoking I did two things. First I decided to only stop for a 
week. That way it couldn't be any worse than having a dose of flu and there 
wouldn't be that nagging, horrid thought I will never again know the pleasure 
of inhaling on a cigarette. Secondly, as I've always been inordinately curious 
about whatever takes my fancy doesn't that suggest inordinate curiosity is part 
of my True Will? So I thought, I'll treat the experience of going cold turkey 
as if I'd just ingested a novel, experimental drug and I had to keep track and 
report back on what the effects were. In other words, I made the quitting into 
a game - and a game that would just be a short, sharp shock. At the end of the 
week I'd (more-or-less) sailed through the adventure and I knew I'd never smoke 
a cigarette again. Hey, maybe I should set up shop as an addiction counsellor!




[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-10-01 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] Re: The Beast and the unborn

2013-10-01 Thread turquoiseb
s3raphita sez:

 Re Well  I'll be darned! So EFT is magic - who would-a thunk
 it. Here in the  states, EFT is being used by a number of
 different clinics and programs  treating vets with PTSD. :
 EFT does definitely work in some  cases and yet the
 *explanation* of why it works given by its own  practitioners -
 meridian lines in the body, etc. - would be treated with
 derision by scientists. Here's another example: here in the
 UK you can  get homeopathic treatment on the National
 Health Service. If homeopathy  works (does it? I don't know)
 how could you explain that success in  conventional scientific
 terms? It can't be done. If magicians are onto  something (as
 opposed to on something!) their explanation fits in both
 cases. The practitioners of homeopathy and EFT are
 unknowingly  imitating what occultists claim is a reliable
 technique. As I say, I'm  not an occultist but it's an intriguing
 idea, no? And the proof of the  pudding is in the eating.

The link you propose between such techniques and occult
or magickal practices is probably valid, if for no other reason
the all-important placebo effect.

It's growing stronger by the day, which is causing no end of
consternation to doctors and pharmaceutical companies.
They are literally unable to replicate the results of studies
that seemed clear-cut in the past, some of them for drugs
that are now approved and prescribed daily. In the old tests,
these drugs vastly outperformed the placebos; in the newer
tests, they can't. The number of patients reporting relief is
just as high for the placebos as for the actual drugs.

How does the placebo effect work? No one knows. But
they *do* know that it *does* work. There is simply no
question about it. It works better if the patient believes
it will work, and interestingly it works better if the person
delivering the placebo believes it will work. That sure sounds
like magick or occultism to me.



http://blog.nj.com/njv_shenemans_sketchpad/2008/10/large_skittles.gif
http://blog.nj.com/njv_shenemans_sketchpad/2008/10/large_skittles.gif





[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-10-01 Thread s3raphita













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-30 Thread Share Long
Seraphita, 5 yrs ago the doc told me I was headed for Type 2 diabetes. So the 
first week of my new diet, I ate no sugar or carbs or dairy. Right away my body 
looked better and that motivated me to continue dieting, not as strictly as I 
had, but I return to that strategy when I need to. I also used EFT tapping to 
deal with cookie cravings. When I stopped smoking about 40 yrs ago, I NEVER 
wanted another cigarette which I think was just grace.





 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re Steve Sundur's  Hey Judy, sorry for any nastiness. Seraphita's analysis of 
the book touched on some of the reasons I did like the book.  Addiction issues 
have always been of interest to me . . . when the discussion of this book came 
up before, many years ago, I was more confident that the modality put forth in 
the book could be effective.:

If we are still talking about Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend, I mentioned 
above that he himself never lost his heroin habit. The drug was prescribed for 
his asthma so maybe he never had a fighting chance to stay clean. 

Curiously, I used the Beast's ideas when I quit smoking. The gist of Crowley's 
thinking here is that when a man (say) decides to stop a drug habit (let's say 
smoking) his surface consciousness comes up with lots of reasons - my clothes 
stink/it's an expensive habit/I'm coughing up phlegm/ . . . - but his deeper 
nature (his True Will) is actually rather keen on puffing away. The man has set 
up an uneven contest that he's destined to lose.

When I stopped smoking I did two things. First I decided to only stop for a 
week. That way it couldn't be any worse than having a dose of flu and there 
wouldn't be that nagging, horrid thought I will never again know the pleasure 
of inhaling on a cigarette. Secondly, as I've always been inordinately curious 
about whatever takes my fancy doesn't that suggest inordinate curiosity is part 
of my True Will? So I thought, I'll treat the experience of going cold turkey 
as if I'd just ingested a novel, experimental drug and I had to keep track and 
report back on what the effects were. In other words, I made the quitting into 
a game - and a game that would just be a short, sharp shock. At the end of the 
week I'd (more-or-less) sailed through the adventure and I knew I'd never smoke 
a cigarette again. Hey, maybe I should set up shop as an addiction counsellor!
 

[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-30 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-29 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-29 Thread s3raphita













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-29 Thread Steve Sundur

 


 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 11:46 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
  
   
 
Re Steve Sundur's  Hey Judy, sorry for any nastiness. Seraphita's analysis of 
the book touched on some of the reasons I did like the book.  Addiction issues 
have always been of interest to me . . . when the discussion of this book came 
up before, many years ago, I was more confident that the modality put forth in 
the book could be effective.:

If we are still talking about Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend, I mentioned 
above that he himself never lost his heroin habit. The drug was prescribed for 
his asthma so maybe he never had a fighting chance to stay clean. 

Curiously, I used the Beast's ideas when I quit smoking. The gist of Crowley's 
thinking here is that when a man (say) decides to stop a drug habit (let's say 
smoking) his surface consciousness comes up with lots of reasons - my clothes 
stink/it's an expensive habit/I'm coughing up phlegm/ . . . - but his deeper 
nature (his True Will) is actually rather keen on puffing away. The man has set 
up an uneven contest that he's destined to lose.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
 
Aleister Crowley
 
(I guess, one his more notable quotes, although I think I've gotten a little 
fuzzy about its meaning)

When I stopped smoking I did two things. First I decided to only stop for a 
week. That way it couldn't be any worse than having a dose of flu and there 
wouldn't be that nagging, horrid thought I will never again know the pleasure 
of inhaling on a cigarette. Secondly, as I've always been inordinately curious 
about whatever takes my fancy doesn't that suggest inordinate curiosity is part 
of my True Will? So I thought, I'll treat the experience of going cold turkey 
as if I'd just ingested a novel, experimental drug and I had to keep track and 
report back on what the effects were. In other words, I made the quitting into 
a game - and a game that would just be a short, sharp shock. At the end of the 
week I'd (more-or-less) sailed through the adventure and I knew I'd never smoke 
a cigarette again. Hey, maybe I should set up shop as an addiction counsellor!  
 
 

[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-29 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-28 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-28 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-28 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread authfriend













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread Share Long
Seraphita, I have not had any direct experience of abortion either in my own 
life or that of a family member. Nonetheless, I'm sure it must be an awful 
choice for any woman, maybe even in horrendous situations. And it has got to be 
one the *hottest* if not the hottest political issue around as well as being an 
ethical and moral and religious minefield. I'd recommend ignoring any esoteric 
info that isn't helpful and or comforting.





 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 12:02 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
The splendid rant by Aleister Crowley I posted originally is ambiguous: I 
consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest 
kinds of murder . . . : is he against all abortion - which happens to be a 
serious criminal offence at the time? Or is it just criminal abortion he's 
against? That is, he would be happy with legal clinics providing modern, 
hygienic standards as opposed to back-street walk-ups?  

Anyway, I only included the quote as a relish. The reincarnation-karma aspect 
is more intriguing.  

Re Share's I've also heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 months : 
that idea doesn't fly. Some people can recall their experiences in the womb so 
the soul has to be there at the stage when sense organs are developed enough. 
The simplest and most obvious implication is that it gets there at the moment 
of conception. Isn't the idea of a later arrival just too suspiciously 
self-serving? 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, I remember that the Natural Law Party many years ago was pro choice, 
recognizing that abortion is a tragedy and also that a woman has a right to 
choose. Their platform said it in a more expanded and elegant way but that was 
the gist of it. During my decades around spiritual groups, I've also heard that 
the soul enters the foetus at 3 months and that stillbirths, for example, occur 
when the soul changes its mind about incarnating and or experiencing that 
particular life path.





 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Beast and the unborn
 


  
As the magus Aleister Crowley was a sexual degenerate and hoovered up multiple 
partners during his career I'd rather lazily assumed that he would be in favour 
of abortion. I was surprised to come across this quote of his:

I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest 
kinds of murder. Apart from anything else, it nearly always ruins the health of 
the woman, when it fails to kill her. The vigour of my views on this point 
strengthens my general attitude on the question of sexual freedom. I believe 
that very few women, left to themselves, would be so vile as to commit this sin 
against the Holy Ghost; to thwart the deepest instincts of nature at the risk 
of health and Life, to say nothing of imprisonment. Yet criminal abortion is 
one of the commonest of crimes and one most generally condoned by what I must 
paradoxically call secret public opinion. And the reason is that our social 
system makes it shameful and punishable by poverty for a woman to do what 
evolution has spent ages in constructing her to do, save under conditions with 
which the vast majority of women cannot possibly comply. The remedy lies 
entirely with public opinion. Let
 motherhood be recognized as honourable in itself, and even the pressure of 
poverty would not prevent any but a few degenerate women, with perverse 
appetites for pleasure, from fulfilling their function. In the case of such it 
would indeed be better that they and their children perish.


So - not pulling any punches there! A lot of what Aleister objects to in the 
passage above could probably be answered by having the type of child-care 
provision we have in European-style welfare states. However, he raises a more 
interesting objection (though I couldn't immediately spot a quote via Google 
just now) when he claimed that belief in reincarnation implies a belief that 
abortion must be a crime. Why? Because, according to the doctrine a soul has 
chosen to incarnate in a particular foetus and to deny that life a chance to 
grow you have thwarted the true will of that soul. 

But this view is, I see, a commonplace one for those who hold to reincarnation. 
The following passage is lifted from the BBC website.

The doctrine of reincarnation, which sees life as a repeating cycle of birth, 
death and rebirth, is basic to Hindu thinking. The doctrine of reincarnation 
can be used to make a strong case against abortion: If a foetus is aborted, the 
soul within it suffers a major karmic setback. It is deprived of the 
opportunities its potential human existence would have given it to earn good 
karma, and is returned

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread Bhairitu
First off, nobody knows for sure but I go with the Hindu concept that 
the soul enters the body on the first breathe at birth.  That's when the 
prana enters the body with the shakti which is the power that drives the 
body and consciousness.  Anything else is just an offshoot of the mother 
and genetic memory.


Problem with the anti-abortion people in this country is they are so 
stupid they think that pro choice is pro abortion. It isn't nor has 
it ever been.  Once you are in unity consciousness you will realize 
that we are all just one being and duality was just an illusion.  It's 
just the Self enjoying ItSelf in many ways we can't even beging to 
comprehend.


On 09/27/2013 10:02 AM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote:


The splendid rant by Aleister Crowley I posted originally is 
ambiguous: I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever 
as one of the foulest kinds of murder . . . : is he against all 
abortion - which happens to be a serious criminal offence at the time? 
Or is it just criminal abortion he's against? That is, he would be 
happy with legal clinics providing modern, hygienic standards as 
opposed to back-street walk-ups?



Anyway, I only included the quote as a relish. The 
reincarnation-karma aspect is more intriguing.



Re Share's I've also heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 
months :


that idea doesn't fly. Some people can recall their experiences in the 
womb so the soul has to be there at the stage when sense organs are 
developed enough. The simplest and most obvious implication is that it 
gets there at the moment of conception. Isn't the idea of a later 
arrival just too suspiciously self-serving?




---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

Seraphita, I remember that the Natural Law Party many years ago was 
pro choice, recognizing that abortion is a tragedy and also that a 
woman has a right to choose. Their platform said it in a more expanded 
and elegant way but that was the gist of it. During my decades around 
spiritual groups, I've also heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 
months and that stillbirths, for example, occur when the soul changes 
its mind about incarnating and or experiencing that particular life path.




*From:* s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2013 9:00 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] The Beast and the unborn

As the magus Aleister Crowley was a sexual degenerate and hoovered up 
multiple partners during his career I'd rather lazily assumed that he 
would be in favour of abortion. I was surprised to come across this 
quote of his:


I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of 
the foulest kinds of murder. Apart from anything else, it nearly 
always ruins the health of the woman, when it fails to kill her. The 
vigour of my views on this point strengthens my general attitude on 
the question of sexual freedom. I believe that very few women, left to 
themselves, would be so vile as to commit this sin against the Holy 
Ghost; to thwart the deepest instincts of nature at the risk of health 
and Life, to say nothing of imprisonment. Yet criminal abortion is one 
of the commonest of crimes and one most generally condoned by what I 
must paradoxically call secret public opinion. And the reason is that 
our social system makes it shameful and punishable by poverty for a 
woman to do what evolution has spent ages in constructing her to do, 
save under conditions with which the vast majority of women cannot 
possibly comply. The remedy lies entirely with public opinion. Let 
motherhood be recognized as honourable in itself, and even the 
pressure of poverty would not prevent any but a few degenerate women, 
with perverse appetites for pleasure, from fulfilling their function. 
In the case of such it would indeed be better that they and their 
children perish.


So - not pulling any punches there! A lot of what Aleister objects to 
in the passage above could probably be answered by having the type of 
child-care provision we have in European-style welfare states. 
However, he raises a more interesting objection (though I couldn't 
immediately spot a quote via Google just now) when he claimed that 
belief in reincarnation implies a belief that abortion must be a 
crime. Why? Because, according to the doctrine a soul has chosen to 
incarnate in a particular foetus and to deny that life a chance to 
grow you have thwarted the true will of that soul.


But this view is, I see, a commonplace one for those who hold to 
reincarnation. The following passage is lifted from the BBC website.


The doctrine of reincarnation, which sees life as a repeating cycle 
of birth, death and rebirth, is basic to Hindu thinking. The doctrine 
of reincarnation can be used to make a strong case against abortion: 
If a foetus is aborted, the soul within it suffers a major karmic 
setback. It is 

RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread doctordumbass













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread Share Long
noozguru, this makes a lot of sense about the first breath at birth. The reason 
people think pro choice equals pro abortion IMO is that the Republicans, maybe 
for decades, have been masters of spin.





 From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
First off, nobody knows for sure but I go with the Hindu concept that the 
soul enters the body on the first breathe at birth.  That's when the prana 
enters the body with the shakti which is the power that drives the body and 
consciousness.  Anything else is just an offshoot of the mother and genetic 
memory.

Problem with the anti-abortion people in this country is they are
  so stupid they think that pro choice is pro abortion. It isn't
  nor has it ever been.  Once you are in unity consciousness you
  will realize that we are all just one being and duality was just
  an illusion.  It's just the Self enjoying ItSelf in many ways we
  can't even beging to comprehend.

On 09/27/2013 10:02 AM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote:

  
The splendid rant by Aleister Crowley I posted originally is ambiguous: I 
consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest 
kinds of murder . . . : is he against all abortion - which happens to be a 
serious criminal offence at the time? Or is it just criminal abortion he's 
against? That is, he would be happy with legal clinics providing modern, 
hygienic standards as opposed to back-street walk-ups?  


Anyway, I only included the quote as a relish. The reincarnation-karma 
aspect is more intriguing.  


Re Share's I've also heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 months : 
that idea doesn't fly. Some people can recall their experiences in the womb so 
the soul has to be there at the stage when sense organs are developed enough. 
The simplest and most obvious implication is that it gets there at the moment 
of conception. Isn't the idea of a later arrival just too suspiciously 
self-serving? 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, I remember that the Natural Law Party many years ago was pro 
choice, recognizing that abortion is a tragedy and also that a woman has a 
right to choose. Their platform said it in a more expanded and elegant way but 
that was the gist of it. During my decades around spiritual groups, I've also 
heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 months and that stillbirths, for 
example, occur when the soul changes its mind about incarnating and or 
experiencing that particular life path.







 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Beast and the unborn
 


  
As the magus Aleister Crowley was a sexual degenerate and hoovered up multiple 
partners during his career I'd rather lazily assumed that he would be in 
favour of abortion. I was surprised to come across this quote of his:


I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the 
foulest kinds of murder. Apart from anything else, it nearly always ruins the 
health of the woman, when it fails to kill her. The vigour of my views on this 
point strengthens my general attitude on the question of sexual freedom. I 
believe that very few women, left to themselves, would be so vile as to commit 
this sin against the Holy Ghost; to thwart the deepest instincts of nature at 
the risk of health and Life, to say nothing of imprisonment. Yet criminal 
abortion is one of the commonest of crimes and one most generally condoned by 
what I must paradoxically call secret public opinion. And the reason is that 
our social system makes it shameful and punishable by poverty for a woman to 
do what evolution has spent ages in constructing her to do, save under 
conditions with which the vast majority of women cannot possibly comply. The 
remedy lies entirely with public opinion. Let
 motherhood be recognized as honourable in itself, and even the pressure of 
poverty would not prevent any but a few degenerate women, with perverse 
appetites for pleasure, from fulfilling their function. In the case of such it 
would indeed be better that they and their children perish.



So - not pulling any punches there! A lot of what Aleister objects to in the 
passage above could probably be answered by having the type of child-care 
provision we have in European-style welfare states. However, he raises a more 
interesting objection (though I couldn't immediately spot a quote via Google 
just now) when he claimed that belief in reincarnation implies a belief that 
abortion must be a crime. Why? Because, according to the doctrine a soul has 
chosen to incarnate in a particular foetus and to deny that life a chance to 
grow you have thwarted the true will of that soul. 


But this view is, I see

RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread Duveyoung













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita













[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita













Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread Share Long
Seraphita, are you sure we're not in a saloon bar. People keep posting about a 
bear in a bar (-:





 From: s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:07 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
Re: I'd recommend ignoring any esoteric info that isn't helpful and or 
comforting.:

I see where you're coming from but I'm not sounding off in a saloon bar! To 
clarify: I don't *myself* believe in reincarnation! I don't *myself* oppose 
abortion! I'm just exploring the Beast's ideas because they intrigue me. 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, I have not had any direct experience of abortion either in my own 
life or that of a family member. Nonetheless, I'm sure it must be an awful 
choice for any woman, maybe even in horrendous situations. And it has got to be 
one the *hottest* if not the hottest political issue around as well as being an 
ethical and moral and religious minefield. I'd recommend ignoring any esoteric 
info that isn't helpful and or comforting.





 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 12:02 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn
 


  
The splendid rant by Aleister Crowley I posted originally is ambiguous: I 
consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest 
kinds of murder . . . : is he against all abortion - which happens to be a 
serious criminal offence at the time? Or is it just criminal abortion he's 
against? That is, he would be happy with legal clinics providing modern, 
hygienic standards as opposed to back-street walk-ups?  

Anyway, I only included the quote as a relish. The reincarnation-karma aspect 
is more intriguing.  

Re Share's I've also heard that the soul enters the foetus at 3 months : 
that idea doesn't fly. Some people can recall their experiences in the womb so 
the soul has to be there at the stage when sense organs are developed enough. 
The simplest and most obvious implication is that it gets there at the moment 
of conception. Isn't the idea of a later arrival just too suspiciously 
self-serving? 


---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:


Seraphita, I remember that the Natural Law Party many years ago was pro choice, 
recognizing that abortion is a tragedy and also that a woman has a right to 
choose. Their platform said it in a more expanded and elegant way but that was 
the gist of it. During my decades around spiritual groups, I've also heard that 
the soul enters the foetus at 3 months and that stillbirths, for example, occur 
when the soul changes its mind about incarnating and or experiencing that 
particular life path.





 From: s3raphita@... s3raphita@...
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Beast and the unborn
 


  
As the magus Aleister Crowley was a sexual degenerate and hoovered up multiple 
partners during his career I'd rather lazily assumed that he would be in favour 
of abortion. I was surprised to come across this quote of his:

I consider criminal abortion in any circumstances soever as one of the foulest 
kinds of murder. Apart from anything else, it nearly always ruins the health of 
the woman, when it fails to kill her. The vigour of my views on this point 
strengthens my general attitude on the question of sexual freedom. I believe 
that very few women, left to themselves, would be so vile as to commit this sin 
against the Holy Ghost; to thwart the deepest instincts of nature at the risk 
of health and Life, to say nothing of imprisonment. Yet criminal abortion is 
one of the commonest of crimes and one most generally condoned by what I must 
paradoxically call secret public opinion. And the reason is that our social 
system makes it shameful and punishable by poverty for a woman to do what 
evolution has spent ages in constructing her to do, save under conditions with 
which the vast majority of women cannot possibly comply. The remedy lies 
entirely with public opinion. Let
 motherhood be recognized as honourable in itself, and even the pressure of 
poverty would not prevent any but a few degenerate women, with perverse 
appetites for pleasure, from fulfilling their function. In the case of such it 
would indeed be better that they and their children perish.


So - not pulling any punches there! A lot of what Aleister objects to in the 
passage above could probably be answered by having the type of child-care 
provision we have in European-style welfare states. However, he raises a more 
interesting objection (though I couldn't immediately spot a quote via Google 
just now) when he claimed that belief in reincarnation implies a belief that 
abortion must be a crime. Why? Because, according to the doctrine

[FairfieldLife] RE: The Beast and the unborn

2013-09-27 Thread s3raphita