[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-15 Thread nablusoss1008 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Louis:
 
 I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude 
towards 
 African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
 term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, 
such 
 as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
 indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:
 
 1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was 
asked 
 about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
 response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
 red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
 segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
 the stem, (and so on).
 
 2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
 Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to 
see 
 him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
 surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
 impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
 them to be intelligent at all.
 
 Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
 impressions that I did on this subject...

The only person Maharishi actively sought out from the darshan-line 
after our TTC was a black american (he was standing in the back of 
the crowd) saying while handing the fellow a flower: You are doing 
very well, uh ?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-15 Thread Louis McKenzie 
I dont think Maharishi was a racist.nbsp;nbsp; Most people prefer to look at 
it as there was/is definitely racism in the movement.nbsp;nbsp; Maharishi put 
his show on for whoever was paying and who would be able to contribute most to 
his objective.nbsp;nbsp; For Maharishi it was not about race.nbsp; You could 
say Maharishis race card was either colorless sap or green..

--- On Sun, 6/15/08, nablusoss1008 lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: nablusoss1008 lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 4:52 AM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; Louis:
gt; 
gt; I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude 
towards 
gt; African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
gt; term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans,

such 
gt; as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
gt; indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:
gt; 
gt; 1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was 
asked 
gt; about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
gt; response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
gt; red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
gt; segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
gt; the stem, (and so on).
gt; 
gt; 2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
gt; Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to 
see 
gt; him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
gt; surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
gt; impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
gt; them to be intelligent at all.
gt; 
gt; Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
gt; impressions that I did on this subject...

The only person Maharishi actively sought out from the darshan-line 
after our TTC was a black american (he was standing in the back of 
the crowd) saying while handing the fellow a flower: You are doing 
very well, uh ?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-15 Thread Louis McKenzie 
I dont think Maharishi was a racist.nbsp;nbsp; Most people prefer to look at 
it as there was/is definitely racism in the movement.nbsp;nbsp; Maharishi put 
his show on for whoever was paying and who would be able to contribute most to 
his objective.nbsp;nbsp; For Maharishi it was not about race.nbsp; You could 
say Maharishis race card was either colorless sap or green..

--- On Sun, 6/15/08, nablusoss1008 lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: nablusoss1008 lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 4:52 AM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; Louis:
gt; 
gt; I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude 
towards 
gt; African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
gt; term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans,

such 
gt; as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
gt; indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:
gt; 
gt; 1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was 
asked 
gt; about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
gt; response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
gt; red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
gt; segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
gt; the stem, (and so on).
gt; 
gt; 2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
gt; Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to 
see 
gt; him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
gt; surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
gt; impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
gt; them to be intelligent at all.
gt; 
gt; Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
gt; impressions that I did on this subject...

The only person Maharishi actively sought out from the darshan-line 
after our TTC was a black american (he was standing in the back of 
the crowd) saying while handing the fellow a flower: You are doing 
very well, uh ?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-15 Thread shempmcgurk 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 In all the world dark skin is thought of as less than except in 
central and west Africa. In South Africa during Aparthied there was 
whites Asians Colored and Blacks Asians and Colored were thought to 
be equal they all had to yield to the white.



Here's another question for you, Louis:

We've heard from another poster that in Rwanda over 800,000 people 
were slaughtered in the tribal warfare between Hutu's and Tsutsi's.  
Both people were black-skinned, so we don't tend to call 
this racism but I think you can agree that the conflict was based 
upon classifying people according to their membership in a group and 
people were killed according to their placement in one or the other 
group.

South Africa had a classification system as well.  It was called 
Apartheir in which people were segregated into different groups 
according to skin color (Black, White, Colored, Asian, etc.) In the 
fight to end Apartheid only a few thousand people over about 50 years 
were killed, at most.

Yet we had 800,000 black-skinned people killed under Rwanda's system -
- albeit a traditional non-legal system of classification.

Which system, to you, was worse?




 
 --- On Sun, 6/15/08, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From: shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African 
Americans is INSANE but true
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 1:33 AM
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, R.G. babajii_99@
 wrote:
 gt;
 gt;  (snip)
 gt; gt; Louis:
 gt; gt; 
 gt; gt; I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's 
attitude 
 towards 
 gt; gt; African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use 
the 
 gt; gt; term Black Africans to differentiate them from White
 Africans, 
 gt; such 
 gt;  (snip)
 gt; 
 gt; After years of British Rule in India, I think the Indian 
people 
 have 
 gt; had a love/hate relationship with the Brits...
 gt; They seem to like the orderliness, the Monarchy, different 
things 
 gt; about the Brits that has helped their culture.
 gt; While at the same time, they hate being regarded as 'Black'...
 gt; While traveling in Africa, Mahatma Gandhi experienced this 
 prejudice 
 gt; in South Africa, when he was teaching there.
 
 
 
 Actually, no.
 
 Gandhi was discriminated against but not because he was perceived 
 as Black. The South African apartheid system had its own 
 classification for Asians.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 gt; I assume the Indian People wanted to dissasociate themselves 
with 
 gt; anything to do with African or being 'Dark Skinned'.
 gt; 
 gt; 'Dark Skinned' people were always considered inferior to the
 Brits, 
 gt; right?
 gt;
 
 Dark Skinned Indians were always considered inferior to light-
 skinned Indians as well.  So, within Indian culture, darker skin is 
 not as preferred as light skin in many quarters.  This can be 
 witnessed in the movie Mississippi Masala which is a treatise not 
 only on the relationship between African-Americans and East Indians 
 but dark and light-skinned Indians as well.
 
 I wonder how many other cultures this prejudice to darker skin 
 exist.  I am thinking of a very beautiful Syrian girl I knew who 
was 
 one of about 6 siblings.  She once showed me a picture of all the 
 siblings together and she remarked -- negatively -- that she was 
the 
 darkest of the lot but, gee, look how light-skinned all her 
brothers 
 and sisters were!
 
 It may only be White people who actually prefer darker skin within-
 the-race so to speak.  Tanned people are very often considered more 
 beautiful and more healthy than pale, pasty white-skinned people.
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-15 Thread Louis McKenzie 
I dont know.nbsp;nbsp; The day that things got out of hand In Rwanda I was at 
a wedding for a Rwandan woman who was marrying a white guy.nbsp;nbsp; The 
wedding went well and we were waiting for the reception to begin.nbsp;nbsp; 
Things got quiet people began crying and getting very nervous.nbsp;nbsp; It 
was suggested that everyone go home.nbsp;nbsp; My friend a former MIU student 
Rwandan was my connection to everyone.nbsp;nbsp; I didn't know anything about 
Tutsi people at the time.nbsp;nbsp; Yet later I wouldnbsp; learn that they 
were considered to be gypsies.nbsp;nbsp; They are a nomadic tribe so it was 
not in their nature to be in one place.nbsp;nbsp; So this makes room for a 
land dispute.nbsp;nbsp; Also they have no problem with asking for what they 
want.nbsp; 

Well so when I found out what had occurred I was shocked.nbsp;nbsp; Yet the 
same things was happening in Bosnia, and other countries in Euro Slavic 
area.nbsp;nbsp; Religious wars are old.nbsp; Wars over difference are 
old.nbsp; Who can fathom why something like Rwanda could ever 
happen.nbsp;nbsp; What I do know is that Grace was one of my most beautiful 
friends physically and every other way.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; The idea that a large 
portion of her family was killed that day in those days was horrible.

In terms of Aparthied the objective was never to extinguish anyone.nbsp;nbsp; 
The Blacks we good servants .nbsp;nbsp; It would have been economically and 
politically unacceptable to commit any form of ethnic cleansing.nbsp;nbsp; 
Yet the Afrikans had control issues.nbsp;nbsp; They used torture, segregation 
and violence to control people they tried to construe to be 
savages.nbsp;nbsp; The US system was even initially more brutal than 
apartheid.nbsp;nbsp; Who knows how many people were killed in the American 
Slavery system.nbsp; 

Yet after slavery we had apartheid.nbsp;nbsp; This apartheid system is still 
happening in America today.nbsp;nbsp; So do I think that apartheid saved the 
people of South Afrika for attack or genocide?nbsp; No, it was not the 
issue.nbsp;nbsp; What were the issues? control and domination.nbsp;nbsp; 
This control and domination by a few over a multitude will not happen.

--- On Sun, 6/15/08, shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 3:14 PM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; In all the world dark skin is thought of as less than except in 
central and west Africa. In South Africa during Aparthied there was 
whites Asians Colored and Blacks Asians and Colored were thought to 
be equal they all had to yield to the white.



Here's another question for you, Louis:

We've heard from another poster that in Rwanda over 800,000 people 
were slaughtered in the tribal warfare between Hutu's and Tsutsi's.  
Both people were black-skinned, so we don't tend to call 
this racism but I think you can agree that the conflict was based 
upon classifying people according to their membership in a group and 
people were killed according to their placement in one or the other 
group.

South Africa had a classification system as well.  It was called 
Apartheir in which people were segregated into different groups 
according to skin color (Black, White, Colored, Asian, etc.) In the 
fight to end Apartheid only a few thousand people over about 50 years 
were killed, at most.

Yet we had 800,000 black-skinned people killed under Rwanda's system -
- albeit a traditional non-legal system of classification.

Which system, to you, was worse?




gt; 
gt; --- On Sun, 6/15/08, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
gt; From: shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gt; Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African 
Americans is INSANE but true
gt; To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
gt; Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 1:33 AM
gt; 
gt; --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, R.G. babajii_99@
gt; wrote:
gt; amp;gt;
gt; amp;gt;  (snip)
gt; amp;gt; amp;gt; Louis:
gt; amp;gt; amp;gt; 
gt; amp;gt; amp;gt; I'm curious to know what you feel about
Maharishi's 
attitude 
gt; towards 
gt; amp;gt; amp;gt; African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use 
the 
gt; amp;gt; amp;gt; term Black Africans to differentiate them
from White
gt; Africans, 
gt; amp;gt; such 
gt; amp;gt;  (snip)
gt; amp;gt; 
gt; amp;gt; After years of British Rule in India, I think the Indian 
people 
gt; have 
gt; amp;gt; had a love/hate relationship with the Brits...
gt; amp;gt; They seem to like the orderliness, the Monarchy, different 
things 
gt; amp;gt; about the Brits that has helped their culture.
gt; amp;gt; While at the same time, they hate being regarded as
'Black'...
gt; amp;gt; While traveling in Africa, Mahatma Gandhi experienced this 
gt; prejudice 
gt; amp;gt; in South Africa, when he was

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread bob_brigante 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
 India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-law was 
black
 
 

*

Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
American blacks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html

So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or cultural 
prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a place 
like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:

In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of today's 
Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority of 
the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to centralize their 
administrations, they distributed land among individuals rather than 
agreeing for it to be held by the hereditary chieftains, who were 
mainly Hutu. Consequently, the aristocracy of Rwanda under the Mwamis 
were mainly Tutsi.

With Mwami Rwabugiri on the throne, Rwanda became an expansionist 
state. Its rulers did not bother to assess the ethnic identities of 
conquered peoples brought under their sway, simply labeling all of 
them Hutu. The Hutu identity, consequently, was to be a trans-
ethnic one. Eventually, Tutsi and Hutu were seen to be economic 
distinctions, rather than particularly ethnic. In fact, there was 
social mobility between the Tutsis and Hutus, on the basis of 
hierachial status. One could kwihutura, or lose Hutuness, with the 
accumulation of wealth.[3] Conversely, a Tutsi bereft of property could 
gucupira, or lose Tutsiness.[4] Redistribution of land, between the 
1860s and 1890s, resulted in its owners demanding manual labor in 
return for the right to occupy their property. This system of 
patronage, known as uburetwa, i.e. work for access to land, left Hutus 
in a serf-like status, with Tutsis as their feudal masters.
(more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread Louis McKenzie 
But this is not Rwanda this is in The US.nbsp;nbsp; I would not have believed 
that this could be until I experienced it first hand.nbsp;nbsp; Absolute 
stupidity the racism that Indians have toward African 
Americans.nbsp;nbsp; I was actually told that I was of too low caste to be 
with the daughter of this woman.nbsp; So I went around trying to figure just 
what caste this cow was suggesting I was. Here in Brazil I have a person who 
lives in Canada a catholic who is a very dark skinned Indian fellow.nbsp; He 
tried to make out that he is in some way superior. nbsp; But he knows I know 
of his plight in India which he does not like to talk about. nbsp;nbsp;  That 
was the experience that made me look to places and traditions that would not 
think of me as next to dirt. Or 3/5 human.nbsp;nbsp; 

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, bob_brigante lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: bob_brigante lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 6:14 PM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
gt; India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-law was 
black
gt; 
gt; 

*

Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
American blacks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html

So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or cultural 
prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a place 
like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:

In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of
today's 
Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority of 
the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to centralize their 
administrations, they distributed land among individuals rather than 
agreeing for it to be held by the hereditary chieftains, who were 
mainly Hutu. Consequently, the aristocracy of Rwanda under the Mwamis 
were mainly Tutsi.

With Mwami Rwabugiri on the throne, Rwanda became an expansionist 
state. Its rulers did not bother to assess the ethnic identities of 
conquered peoples brought under their sway, simply labeling all of 
them Hutu. The Hutu identity, consequently, was to be a
trans-
ethnic one. Eventually, Tutsi and Hutu were seen to be
economic 
distinctions, rather than particularly ethnic. In fact, there was 
social mobility between the Tutsis and Hutus, on the basis of 
hierachial status. One could kwihutura, or lose Hutuness, with the 
accumulation of wealth.[3] Conversely, a Tutsi bereft of property could 
gucupira, or lose Tutsiness.[4] Redistribution of land, between the

1860s and 1890s, resulted in its owners demanding manual labor in 
return for the right to occupy their property. This system of 
patronage, known as uburetwa, i.e. work for access to land, left Hutus 
in a serf-like status, with Tutsis as their feudal masters.
(more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread Louis McKenzie 
But this is not Rwanda this is in The US.nbsp;nbsp; I would not have believed 
that this could be until I experienced it first hand.nbsp;nbsp; Absolute 
stupidity the racism that Indians have toward African 
Americans.nbsp;nbsp; I was actually told that I was of too low caste to be 
with the daughter of this woman.nbsp; So I went around trying to figure just 
what caste this cow was suggesting I was. Here in Brazil I have a person who 
lives in Canada a catholic who is a very dark skinned Indian fellow.nbsp; He 
tried to make out that he is in some way superior. nbsp; But he knows I know 
of his plight in India which he does not like to talk about. nbsp;nbsp;  That 
was the experience that made me look to places and traditions that would not 
think of me as next to dirt. Or 3/5 human.nbsp;nbsp; 

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, bob_brigante lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: bob_brigante lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 6:14 PM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
gt; India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-law was 
black
gt; 
gt; 

*

Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
American blacks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html

So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or cultural 
prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a place 
like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:

In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of
today's 
Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority of 
the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to centralize their 
administrations, they distributed land among individuals rather than 
agreeing for it to be held by the hereditary chieftains, who were 
mainly Hutu. Consequently, the aristocracy of Rwanda under the Mwamis 
were mainly Tutsi.

With Mwami Rwabugiri on the throne, Rwanda became an expansionist 
state. Its rulers did not bother to assess the ethnic identities of 
conquered peoples brought under their sway, simply labeling all of 
them Hutu. The Hutu identity, consequently, was to be a
trans-
ethnic one. Eventually, Tutsi and Hutu were seen to be
economic 
distinctions, rather than particularly ethnic. In fact, there was 
social mobility between the Tutsis and Hutus, on the basis of 
hierachial status. One could kwihutura, or lose Hutuness, with the 
accumulation of wealth.[3] Conversely, a Tutsi bereft of property could 
gucupira, or lose Tutsiness.[4] Redistribution of land, between the

1860s and 1890s, resulted in its owners demanding manual labor in 
return for the right to occupy their property. This system of 
patronage, known as uburetwa, i.e. work for access to land, left Hutus 
in a serf-like status, with Tutsis as their feudal masters.
(more)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide




To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread shempmcgurk 
Louis:

I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude towards 
African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, such 
as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:

1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was asked 
about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
the stem, (and so on).

2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to see 
him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
them to be intelligent at all.

Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
impressions that I did on this subject...



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 But this is not Rwanda this is in The US.nbsp;nbsp; I would not 
have believed that this could be until I experienced it first 
hand.nbsp;nbsp; Absolute stupidity the racism that Indians have 
toward African Americans.nbsp;nbsp; I was actually told that I was 
of too low caste to be with the daughter of this woman.nbsp; So I 
went around trying to figure just what caste this cow was suggesting 
I was. Here in Brazil I have a person who lives in Canada a catholic 
who is a very dark skinned Indian fellow.nbsp; He tried to make out 
that he is in some way superior. nbsp; But he knows I know of his 
plight in India which he does not like to talk about. nbsp;nbsp;  
That was the experience that made me look to places and traditions 
that would not think of me as next to dirt. Or 3/5 human.nbsp;nbsp; 
 
 --- On Sat, 6/14/08, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 From: bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African 
Americans is INSANE but true
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 6:14 PM
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote:
 gt;
 gt; Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
 gt; India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-
law was 
 black
 gt; 
 gt; 
 
 *
 
 Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
 American blacks:
 
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html
 
 So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or 
cultural 
 prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a 
place 
 like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
 physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:
 
 In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of
 today's 
 Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority 
of 
 the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
 croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to centralize 
their 
 administrations, they distributed land among individuals rather 
than 
 agreeing for it to be held by the hereditary chieftains, who were 
 mainly Hutu. Consequently, the aristocracy of Rwanda under the 
Mwamis 
 were mainly Tutsi.
 
 With Mwami Rwabugiri on the throne, Rwanda became an expansionist 
 state. Its rulers did not bother to assess the ethnic identities of 
 conquered peoples brought under their sway, simply labeling all of 
 them Hutu. The Hutu identity, consequently, was to be a
 trans-
 ethnic one. Eventually, Tutsi and Hutu were seen to be
 economic 
 distinctions, rather than particularly ethnic. In fact, there was 
 social mobility between the Tutsis and Hutus, on the basis of 
 hierachial status. One could kwihutura, or lose Hutuness, with 
the 
 accumulation of wealth.[3] Conversely, a Tutsi bereft of property 
could 
 gucupira, or lose Tutsiness.[4] Redistribution of land, between 
the
 
 1860s and 1890s, resulted in its owners demanding manual labor in 
 return for the right to occupy their property. This system of 
 patronage, known as uburetwa, i.e. work for access to land, left 
Hutus 
 in a serf-like status, with Tutsis as their feudal masters.
 (more)
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread R.G. 
 (snip)
 Louis:
 
 I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude towards 
 African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
 term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, 
such 
 (snip)

After years of British Rule in India, I think the Indian people have 
had a love/hate relationship with the Brits...
They seem to like the orderliness, the Monarchy, different things 
about the Brits that has helped their culture.
While at the same time, they hate being regarded as 'Black'...
While traveling in Africa, Mahatma Gandhi experienced this prejudice 
in South Africa, when he was teaching there.
I assume the Indian People wanted to dissasociate themselves with 
anything to do with African or being 'Dark Skinned'.

'Dark Skinned' people were always considered inferior to the Brits, 
right?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread Louis McKenzie 
Maharishi in this area was perplex, because he had a mixed way.nbsp; I 
personally never had any interaction with Maharishi in that way so I cant 
say.nbsp;nbsp; But watching the videos it seemed like in general he placed to 
white people more.nbsp;nbsp; I have not seen one African or African American 
Raja.nbsp;nbsp; No Black guys as his favorites or any of that.nbsp;nbsp; He 
did do one course in Ethiopa to train teachers to teach in the inner 
city.nbsp;nbsp; 

Yet at the same time he did an interview with Ebony magazine in which they ask 
him about his color.nbsp; He said I know I am Black why do I need to talk 
about it.nbsp; The idea that people can talk about reincarnation and all of 
this spiritual stuff, invite one to their home treat you like family but the 
moment it comes to marriage they see it as a great disgrace.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 

That night when someone said that to me.nbsp; I had been a guest in their home 
for more than a week.nbsp;nbsp; I felt like I wanted to vomit every things I 
had eaten there.nbsp;nbsp; Yet you knownbsp; this mother did not see it that 
way she saw it as life as usual.nbsp;nbsp; She came to stay in my home and 
cooked for me.nbsp;nbsp; Was very nice...

Very crazy

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 11:51 PM

Louis:

I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude towards 
African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, such

as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:

1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was asked 
about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
the stem, (and so on).

2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to see 
him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
them to be intelligent at all.

Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
impressions that I did on this subject...



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; But this is not Rwanda this is in The US.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; I would not 
have believed that this could be until I experienced it first 
hand.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; Absolute stupidity the racism that Indians have 
toward African Americans.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; I was actually told that I was 
of too low caste to be with the daughter of this woman.amp;nbsp; So I 
went around trying to figure just what caste this cow was suggesting 
I was. Here in Brazil I have a person who lives in Canada a catholic 
who is a very dark skinned Indian fellow.amp;nbsp; He tried to make out 
that he is in some way superior. amp;nbsp; But he knows I know of his 
plight in India which he does not like to talk about. amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp;  
That was the experience that made me look to places and traditions 
that would not think of me as next to dirt. Or 3/5 human.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; 
gt; 
gt; --- On Sat, 6/14/08, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
gt; From: bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gt; Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African 
Americans is INSANE but true
gt; To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
gt; Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 6:14 PM
gt; 
gt; --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote:
gt; amp;gt;
gt; amp;gt; Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
gt; amp;gt; India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-
law was 
gt; black
gt; amp;gt; 
gt; amp;gt; 
gt; 
gt; *
gt; 
gt; Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
gt; American blacks:
gt; 
gt; 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html
gt; 
gt; So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or 
cultural 
gt; prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a 
place 
gt; like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
gt; physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:
gt; 
gt; In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of
gt; today's 
gt; Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority 
of 
gt; the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
gt; croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread Louis McKenzie 
Maharishi in this area was perplex, because he had a mixed way.nbsp; I 
personally never had any interaction with Maharishi in that way so I cant 
say.nbsp;nbsp; But watching the videos it seemed like in general he placed to 
white people more.nbsp;nbsp; I have not seen one African or African American 
Raja.nbsp;nbsp; No Black guys as his favorites or any of that.nbsp;nbsp; He 
did do one course in Ethiopa to train teachers to teach in the inner 
city.nbsp;nbsp; 

Yet at the same time he did an interview with Ebony magazine in which they ask 
him about his color.nbsp; He said I know I am Black why do I need to talk 
about it.nbsp; The idea that people can talk about reincarnation and all of 
this spiritual stuff, invite one to their home treat you like family but the 
moment it comes to marriage they see it as a great disgrace.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 

That night when someone said that to me.nbsp; I had been a guest in their home 
for more than a week.nbsp;nbsp; I felt like I wanted to vomit every things I 
had eaten there.nbsp;nbsp; Yet you knownbsp; this mother did not see it that 
way she saw it as life as usual.nbsp;nbsp; She came to stay in my home and 
cooked for me.nbsp;nbsp; Was very nice...

Very crazy

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 11:51 PM

Louis:

I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude towards 
African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, such

as Charlize Theron).  I'm thinking two such instances which gave an 
indication to me of Maharishi's thinking in this area:

1) in a video tape from La Antilla I think it was Maharishi was asked 
about the then-in-place Apartheid system in South Africa and his 
response was: (taking a flower in hand) see the flower, see how the 
red of the petal is segregated from the stem, see how the thorn is 
segregated from the leaves, see how the leaves are segregated from 
the stem, (and so on).

2) After a trip to Africa, he was relating his experience during a 
Question and Answer session he had with Africans who had come to see 
him at a lecture law.  The thrust of Maharishi's comments were how 
surprised he was at the intelligence of the questions.  He gave the 
impression that it threw him for a loop and that he didn't expect 
them to be intelligent at all.

Thoughts?  And I'd like to hear from anyone else who got the same 
impressions that I did on this subject...



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; 
wrote:
gt;
gt; But this is not Rwanda this is in The US.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; I would not 
have believed that this could be until I experienced it first 
hand.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; Absolute stupidity the racism that Indians have 
toward African Americans.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; I was actually told that I was 
of too low caste to be with the daughter of this woman.amp;nbsp; So I 
went around trying to figure just what caste this cow was suggesting 
I was. Here in Brazil I have a person who lives in Canada a catholic 
who is a very dark skinned Indian fellow.amp;nbsp; He tried to make out 
that he is in some way superior. amp;nbsp; But he knows I know of his 
plight in India which he does not like to talk about. amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp;  
That was the experience that made me look to places and traditions 
that would not think of me as next to dirt. Or 3/5 human.amp;nbsp;amp;nbsp; 
gt; 
gt; --- On Sat, 6/14/08, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
gt; From: bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]
gt; Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African 
Americans is INSANE but true
gt; To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
gt; Date: Saturday, June 14, 2008, 6:14 PM
gt; 
gt; --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Louis McKenzie ltm457@ wrote:
gt; amp;gt;
gt; amp;gt; Man accused in hired racial killing of son¡¦s wife
gt; amp;gt; India native charged with hiring killer because daughter-in-
law was 
gt; black
gt; amp;gt; 
gt; amp;gt; 
gt; 
gt; *
gt; 
gt; Indians are pretty dark skinned, maybe nearly as much so as most 
gt; American blacks:
gt; 
gt; 
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/business/worldbusiness/15ambani.html
gt; 
gt; So, in this case, it's not really about color, but ethnic or 
cultural 
gt; prejudice. Which type of prejudice is exemplified perfectly in a 
place 
gt; like Rwanda, where people who were completely indistinguishable in 
gt; physical terms hated each other enough to kill 800 thousands:
gt; 
gt; In the fifteenth century the Tutsis were the rulers of most of
gt; today's 
gt; Rwanda, with some Hutus among the nobility. Tutsis were a minority 
of 
gt; the population, mostly herders, and the majority Hutus were mostly 
gt; croppers. When the kings, known as Mwamis, began to

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread shempmcgurk 
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, R.G. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  (snip)
  Louis:
  
  I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude 
towards 
  African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
  term Black Africans to differentiate them from White Africans, 
 such 
  (snip)
 
 After years of British Rule in India, I think the Indian people 
have 
 had a love/hate relationship with the Brits...
 They seem to like the orderliness, the Monarchy, different things 
 about the Brits that has helped their culture.
 While at the same time, they hate being regarded as 'Black'...
 While traveling in Africa, Mahatma Gandhi experienced this 
prejudice 
 in South Africa, when he was teaching there.



Actually, no.

Gandhi was discriminated against but not because he was perceived 
as Black. The South African apartheid system had its own 
classification for Asians.






 I assume the Indian People wanted to dissasociate themselves with 
 anything to do with African or being 'Dark Skinned'.
 
 'Dark Skinned' people were always considered inferior to the Brits, 
 right?


Dark Skinned Indians were always considered inferior to light-
skinned Indians as well.  So, within Indian culture, darker skin is 
not as preferred as light skin in many quarters.  This can be 
witnessed in the movie Mississippi Masala which is a treatise not 
only on the relationship between African-Americans and East Indians 
but dark and light-skinned Indians as well.

I wonder how many other cultures this prejudice to darker skin 
exist.  I am thinking of a very beautiful Syrian girl I knew who was 
one of about 6 siblings.  She once showed me a picture of all the 
siblings together and she remarked -- negatively -- that she was the 
darkest of the lot but, gee, look how light-skinned all her brothers 
and sisters were!

It may only be White people who actually prefer darker skin within-
the-race so to speak.  Tanned people are very often considered more 
beautiful and more healthy than pale, pasty white-skinned people.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is INSANE but true

2008-06-14 Thread Louis McKenzie 
In all the world dark skin is thought of as less than except in central and 
west Africa. In South Africa during Aparthied there was whites Asians Colored 
and Blacks Asians and Colored were thought to be equal they all had to yield to 
the white.

--- On Sun, 6/15/08, shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt; wrote:
From: shempmcgurk lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Racism of Indians toward African Americans is 
INSANE but true
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 15, 2008, 1:33 AM

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, R.G. lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]gt;
wrote:
gt;
gt;  (snip)
gt; gt; Louis:
gt; gt; 
gt; gt; I'm curious to know what you feel about Maharishi's attitude 
towards 
gt; gt; African-Americans and Black Africans in general (I use the 
gt; gt; term Black Africans to differentiate them from White
Africans, 
gt; such 
gt;  (snip)
gt; 
gt; After years of British Rule in India, I think the Indian people 
have 
gt; had a love/hate relationship with the Brits...
gt; They seem to like the orderliness, the Monarchy, different things 
gt; about the Brits that has helped their culture.
gt; While at the same time, they hate being regarded as 'Black'...
gt; While traveling in Africa, Mahatma Gandhi experienced this 
prejudice 
gt; in South Africa, when he was teaching there.



Actually, no.

Gandhi was discriminated against but not because he was perceived 
as Black. The South African apartheid system had its own 
classification for Asians.






gt; I assume the Indian People wanted to dissasociate themselves with 
gt; anything to do with African or being 'Dark Skinned'.
gt; 
gt; 'Dark Skinned' people were always considered inferior to the
Brits, 
gt; right?
gt;

Dark Skinned Indians were always considered inferior to light-
skinned Indians as well.  So, within Indian culture, darker skin is 
not as preferred as light skin in many quarters.  This can be 
witnessed in the movie Mississippi Masala which is a treatise not 
only on the relationship between African-Americans and East Indians 
but dark and light-skinned Indians as well.

I wonder how many other cultures this prejudice to darker skin 
exist.  I am thinking of a very beautiful Syrian girl I knew who was 
one of about 6 siblings.  She once showed me a picture of all the 
siblings together and she remarked -- negatively -- that she was the 
darkest of the lot but, gee, look how light-skinned all her brothers 
and sisters were!

It may only be White people who actually prefer darker skin within-
the-race so to speak.  Tanned people are very often considered more 
beautiful and more healthy than pale, pasty white-skinned people.




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