[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Janet Hoffman is one-pointed and very effective. She publishes the Center's inventory of Maharishi's Tapes regularly, so we can know the Knowledge available. On a side-note Judy, my memories of the SRM Center on West End Avenue are sweet. I continue to live on West End, so pass by the location regularly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@ wrote: [Rick wrote:] Probably because it's the only TM center in the country that has had the same center chairman (Janet Hoffman) since the 1960's. Exactly, and she seems very organized and careful. Janet's a pistol. Gave (no doubt still gives) the best intro lecture I ever heard. Haven't seen her in many years; I'm amazed she's still at it. Can't imagine how she managed to keep her wits through all the various upheavals the Manhattan Center has had. I was initiated at the satellite center on West End Avenue, which was just a couple of blocks from where I was living. Intimate and comfy; I was sad when it closed. But I never had any trouble with my records. Janet must have appropriated whatever it had and put it together with what she had.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra. Wait, there's a how? L.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Last time we went down this path I gave you a summary of Yogic Vedanta's definitions of states of unity consciousness. I did this because I doubted that you had access to the source material. It took me a lot of time because I work slowly, carefully and with continual measurement of the way we know what we know. This time is ain't necessarily so. Go read the discussions in the Meno between Socrates and the slave boy on recollection and innate knowledge. Then read his statements about mere opinion, true opinion and knowledge. Thank you. I do like books. And I appreciate your past references. Some of which I found of great value. However, I also like to go beyond book learning and understand things experientially, in ways that affect and nurture my living of life. My question was innocent, the direction perhaps not clear. I will restate, for my own value, I assume that you may punt (which is fine). In your day to day, real world living, outside of the domain of books, pure intellectual frameworks, and quoting of lofty sages, when do YOU (not plato, socrotes, shankara or any number of wise people) know that something is absolutely true, and not simply a byproduct of the way your mind, samskaras (roasted or not), culture, personal experience, biases (known and unknown), projection, wish fulfillment, hopin' and prayin' (and more crazy stuff that distorts our take on how things are) -- that I (perhaps crudely) lump together and term opinion. Some people claim a state that is irrefutably true, self-validating, and obvious. however, when the same claim flimsy, secondhand knowledge which is clearly not valid, well research or thought through as irrefutable, I tend to go back to the null hypothesis -- even in lofty spiritual matters, that ultimately its all opinion -- in the sense state above -- that is we see things through our own glasses and there is no such thing as an absolutely clear lens (unless you are Krishna or somebody -- I use Krishna as a metaphor for the perfect, flawless instrument (nervous system) to see things as they really are) -- and since I only know glimpses of Krishna, through my own distorted lens (I may be seeing nothing at all in reality) how could I possibly know what he knows and perceives.) If you can share how you personally have disproved the null hypothesis, I would be all ears. If you think you know how others did it, Socrotes, Shankara and who ever, thats interesting. But not to my point -- and while of some interest, is not the object of my full interest and attention at the moment. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. To hold that there is something other than opinion implies you know something that is absolutely true. Can you share?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Last time we went down this path I gave you a summary of Yogic Vedanta's definitions of states of unity consciousness. I did this because I doubted that you had access to the source material. It took me a lot of time because I work slowly, carefully and with continual measurement of the way we know what we know. This time is ain't necessarily so. Go read the discussions in the Meno between Socrates and the slave boy on recollection and innate knowledge. Then read his statements about mere opinion, true opinion and knowledge. Thank you. I do like books. And I appreciate your past references. Some of which I found of great value. However, I also like to go beyond book learning and understand things experientially, in ways that affect and nurture my living of life. My question was innocent, the direction perhaps not clear. I will restate, for my own value, I assume that you may punt (which is fine). In your day to day, real world living, outside of the domain of books, pure intellectual frameworks, and quoting of lofty sages, when do YOU (not plato, socrotes, shankara or any number of wise people) know that something is absolutely true, and not simply a byproduct of the way your mind, samskaras (roasted or not), culture, personal experience, biases (known and unknown), projection, wish fulfillment, hopin' and prayin' (and more crazy stuff that distorts our take on how things are) -- that I (perhaps crudely) lump together and term opinion. Some people claim a state that is irrefutably true, self-validating, and obvious. however, when the same claim flimsy, secondhand knowledge which is clearly not valid, well research or thought through as irrefutable, I tend to go back to the null hypothesis -- even in lofty spiritual matters, that ultimately its all opinion -- in the sense state above -- that is we see things through our own glasses and there is no such thing as an absolutely clear lens (unless you are Krishna or somebody -- I use Krishna as a metaphor for the perfect, flawless instrument (nervous system) to see things as they really are) -- and since I only know glimpses of Krishna, through my own distorted lens (I may be seeing nothing at all in reality) how could I possibly know what he knows and perceives.) If you can share how you personally have disproved the null hypothesis, I would be all ears. If you think you know how others did it, Socrotes, Shankara and who ever, thats interesting. But not to my point -- and while of some interest, is not the object of my full interest and attention at the moment. Another side of opinion is projection. We not only see the world though our own lenses -- the lens are who we are, IMO. Thus, we see our take on things, we see our values, our inner states projected out onto the world. I suggest that we see absolutely nothing else, that is we cannot see outside of what we are and what we project onto the world. Where some see pure assholes, I sometimes do not always share that perception / projections. What has always struck me with some, MMY, SSRS, Amma, and others is that they always saw me in a better light than I saw myself. That is because they were seeing themselves, infinite awareness, infinite love, in me. That is my personal experience with them, others may have had different ones, I can only speak for myself. When I see people constantly characterizing others as assholes (assholes being a short hand for lump sum of all insults) I can only surmise that their inner world is assholish not unbounded, not filled with unconditional infinite love. When some act as such, but claim infinite love (or states that have that attribute) I am simply struck with wonder. I don't refute their claims, but I hardly can give them much credence either. Its simply an unexplained wonder. So, as I asked one of our esteemed posters* 4-5 years ago, is it all projection (which is the flip side of the question I asked last night Is it all opinion) I ask you all: Is it all projection? (And interestingly, this poster is the only one who, having implied or claimed sustained altered states, never (except once briefly) has exhibited anger or spewed insults in 1000 plus posts. Not proof of any sustained altered state, but such behavior does not disprove the null hypothesis either (in my perhaps warped view of things). Null hypothesis in this case is Is enlightened. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. To hold that
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Your phrase pure intellectual frameworks shows a common notion of thinking as mere conceptuality. Intellectus/Nous did not originally mean that - it did not mean mind but rather knowing. Reality, knowing and the knowable cohere in the intellect but not the rational mind. That means that what we are is more essential than mind and also that there can be fundamental accord and adequateness between knower and known. You don't seem to give much credence to that possibility. As far as a written essay or a book is concerned, Plato called it a formula for forgetting. As we all know,most education trains people to read rapidly and get the main points. Then they write it down for a test and forget about it. This trains us in certain mental skills but also trains us to only move on to the next thought, the next thing. There is another way, another mode ... contemplative reading.Contemplation/theoria means to move into an idea beyond mere associative thinking until that idea stands alone and transparent to intelligence. The idea may prove to be a mere verbal/conceptual formulation not pointing beyond its own swollen denotation. But if it is full of vertical opulence and degrees of being, an idea can catapult us into that which is not sensory, not verbal and not conceptual because it is purely noetic and trans-rational. There is another level - the ineffable that which is knowable but not describable. However, although more interesting in some ways, I don't have the time to consider that here. So I'll leave you with one of those merely intellectual quotes: As far as pure and absolute truth, it can only be found beyond all its possible expressions; these expressions, as such, cannot claim the attributes of this truth, their relative remoteness from it is expressed by their differentiation and multiplicity, by which they are strictly limited. - Frithjof Schuon .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Thank you. I do like books. And I appreciate your past references. Some of which I found of great value. However, I also like to go beyond book learning and understand things experientially, in ways that affect and nurture my living of life. My question was innocent, the direction perhaps not clear. I will restate, for my own value, I assume that you may punt (which is fine). In your day to day, real world living, outside of the domain of books, pure intellectual frameworks, and quoting of lofty sages, when do YOU (not plato, socrotes, shankara or any number of wise people) know that something is absolutely true, and not simply a byproduct of the way your mind, samskaras (roasted or not), culture, personal experience, biases (known and unknown), projection, wish fulfillment, hopin' and prayin' (and more crazy stuff that distorts our take on how things are) -- that I (perhaps crudely) lump together and term opinion. Some people claim a state that is irrefutably true, self-validating, and obvious. however, when the same claim flimsy, secondhand knowledge which is clearly not valid, well research or thought through as irrefutable, I tend to go back to the null hypothesis -- even in lofty spiritual matters, that ultimately its all opinion -- in the sense state above -- that is we see things through our own glasses and there is no such thing as an absolutely clear lens (unless you are Krishna or somebody -- I use Krishna as a metaphor for the perfect, flawless instrument (nervous system) to see things as they really are) -- and since I only know glimpses of Krishna, through my own distorted lens (I may be seeing nothing at all in reality) how could I possibly know what he knows and perceives.) If you can share how you personally have disproved the null hypothesis, I would be all ears. If you think you know how others did it, Socrotes, Shankara and who ever, thats interesting. But not to my point -- and while of some interest, is not the object of my full interest and attention at the moment. Another side of opinion is projection. We not only see the world though our own lenses -- the lens are who we are, IMO. Thus, we see our take on things, we see our values, our inner states projected out onto the world. I suggest that we see absolutely nothing else, that is we cannot see outside of what we are and what we project onto the world. Where some see pure assholes, I sometimes do not always share that perception / projections. What has always struck me with some, MMY, SSRS, Amma, and others is that they always saw me in a better light than I saw myself. That is because they were seeing themselves, infinite awareness, infinite love, in me. That is my personal experience with them, others may have had different ones, I can only speak for myself. When I see people constantly characterizing others as assholes (assholes being a short hand for lump sum of all insults) I can only surmise that their inner world is assholish not
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record of you having learned, practiced or taught TM. Perhaps Mr. Enlightened would like to tell us where and how he verified that there is no record of this. Or maybe we should assume that because even everyday TM teachers don't have access to this kind of inform- ation, Jim (never having become a teacher) is...uh... lying about it. Bottom line for me is that unless Jim can tell us exactly which TMO database he queried to supposedly find this information, and provide us with the exact details so that we can replicate and verify it our- selves, I have to assume that he is lying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons pushed and then spending endless posts throwing out insults? Declaring other people to be liars while exposing himself as one? I'm not sure what distresses me the most about long- term TMers, their gullibility or their vindictiveness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons pushed and then spending endless posts throwing out insults? Declaring other people to be liars while exposing himself as one Even if he did you wouldn't believe him anyway. If that rascal Vaj claims it not to be correct you will simply write off Jim's clame as an lie, in this case not even an opinion.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record of you having learned, practiced or taught TM. Perhaps Mr. Enlightened would like to tell us where and how he verified that there is no record of this. Or maybe we should assume that because even everyday TM teachers don't have access to this kind of inform- ation, Jim (never having become a teacher) is...uh... lying about it. Bottom line for me is that unless Jim can tell us exactly which TMO database he queried to supposedly find this information, and provide us with the exact details so that we can replicate and verify it our- selves, I have to assume that he is lying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons pushed and then spending endless posts throwing out insults? Declaring other people to be liars while exposing himself as one? I'm not sure what distresses me the most about long- term TMers, their gullibility or their vindictiveness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Apart from this issue, you weigh the credibility of sources just as I do, just as anyone does. But you may not be aware of this annoying habit you have of denigrating sources or opinions you happen to disagree with. You do it the name of busting boundries. Hey that sounds pretty good, Barry The Boundry Buster. Even kind of manly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I have heard from two people who applied for dome badges in Fairfield that the TMO could find no record of them ever having learned TM. Both were TM teachers, and had to prove who they were by bringing in course photos from their TTC. Same thing happened (although in L.A., not Fairfield) with a couple who were trying to go on the TM-Sidhis course. The TMO could find no record of them ever having started, and when they suggested that the course office just call their initiator, the TMO could find no record of him, either. They had to track down his phone number themselves and give it to the TM National Center. :-) But that's just everyday, ordinary incompetence. What you're doing is outright lying, and you know it. We all know your track record of lying here -- posting under several aliases while denying it was you until you fucked up and posted one of your shitty songs under the alias that listed its copyright under your real name. You've *still* never owned up to having been all those other people. I don't find Vaj terribly credible, but until you or someone else can *deliver* definitive proof of your claim, a claim it remains, made by someone with an actual *proven* track record of lying on this forum. I'll be interested to see what happens with the pile on from this. Will any real TM supporter have the guts to call you on doing the exact same thing you're claim- ing Vaj does? Or will they just hang back and be silent? I'll be particularly watching seventhray1. I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. Seems to me that if you had real evidence you'd produce it, just to see this happen. But you won't be able to. You won't even try. And the *same* people here who pile on to the Vaj never learned TM meme will let you get away with it, or support you in your lie, as they have done for years. If this is the result of practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, much less being enlightened, you're welcome to it. And all of this because someone dissed a dead man you never met. Pathetic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record of you having learned, practiced or taught TM. Perhaps Mr. Enlightened would like to tell us where and how he verified that there is no record of this. Or maybe we should assume that because even everyday TM teachers don't have access to this kind of inform- ation, Jim (never having become a teacher) is...uh... lying about it. Bottom line for me is that unless Jim can tell us exactly which TMO database he queried to supposedly find this information, and provide us with the exact details so that we can replicate and verify it our- selves, I have to assume that he is lying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons pushed and then spending endless posts throwing out insults? Declaring other people to be liars while exposing himself as one? I'm not sure what distresses me the most about long- term TMers, their gullibility or their vindictiveness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Or should it be, Barry The Buddhist Boundry Buster? Oh, I know you are not a card carrying Buddhist. But you do have some affinity for the tradition. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Apart from this issue, you weigh the credibility of sources just as I do, just as anyone does. But you may not be aware of this annoying habit you have of denigrating sources or opinions you happen to disagree with. You do it the name of busting boundries. Hey that sounds pretty good, Barry The Boundry Buster. Even kind of manly.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I'll be interested to see what happens with the pile on from this. Will any real TM supporter have the guts to call you on doing the exact same thing you're claim- ing Vaj does? Or will they just hang back and be silent? I'll be particularly watching seventhray1. There are people here including you, I believe, who know my full name, and other details. I have always appreciated that they not divulge this even in the midst of disagreements. But you are right, if Jim is going to make a statement or accusation like this, from an anonymous source, that is no different than what we see from Uncle Vaj.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
On May 27, 2011, at 8:15 AM, turquoiseb wrote: But you won't be able to. You won't even try. Of course, if he does, my attorney will have a hay-day with him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Again, nice try troll. I have no idea who you are. You have obviously read up thoroughly on the guy you are trying to impersonate. However the last thing Bozotronic Barry (my nickname for him) said to me was that he would rather urinate on me(!) vs. read my posts. So AGAIN, YOU ARE NOT HIM! Stop the nonsense troll. If anyone else wants to ask me about my facts regarding Vaj, they are free to do so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I have heard from two people who applied for dome badges in Fairfield that the TMO could find no record of them ever having learned TM. Both were TM teachers, and had to prove who they were by bringing in course photos from their TTC. Same thing happened (although in L.A., not Fairfield) with a couple who were trying to go on the TM-Sidhis course. The TMO could find no record of them ever having started, and when they suggested that the course office just call their initiator, the TMO could find no record of him, either. They had to track down his phone number themselves and give it to the TM National Center. :-) But that's just everyday, ordinary incompetence. What you're doing is outright lying, and you know it. We all know your track record of lying here -- posting under several aliases while denying it was you until you fucked up and posted one of your shitty songs under the alias that listed its copyright under your real name. You've *still* never owned up to having been all those other people. I don't find Vaj terribly credible, but until you or someone else can *deliver* definitive proof of your claim, a claim it remains, made by someone with an actual *proven* track record of lying on this forum. I'll be interested to see what happens with the pile on from this. Will any real TM supporter have the guts to call you on doing the exact same thing you're claim- ing Vaj does? Or will they just hang back and be silent? I'll be particularly watching seventhray1. I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. Seems to me that if you had real evidence you'd produce it, just to see this happen. But you won't be able to. You won't even try. And the *same* people here who pile on to the Vaj never learned TM meme will let you get away with it, or support you in your lie, as they have done for years. If this is the result of practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, much less being enlightened, you're welcome to it. And all of this because someone dissed a dead man you never met. Pathetic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record of you having learned, practiced or taught TM. Perhaps Mr. Enlightened would like to tell us where and how he verified that there is no record of this. Or maybe we should assume that because even everyday TM teachers don't have access to this kind of inform- ation, Jim (never having become a teacher) is...uh... lying about it. Bottom line for me is that unless Jim can tell us exactly which TMO database he queried to supposedly find this information, and provide us with the exact details so that we can replicate and verify it our- selves, I have to assume that he is lying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons pushed
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Um, its spelled heyday - one word. And I appreciate your efforts to sound bad-ass, but I don't think your attorney at HR Block provides the kind of services you are looking for.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 8:15 AM, turquoiseb wrote: But you won't be able to. You won't even try. Of course, if he does, my attorney will have a hay-day with him.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
On May 27, 2011, at 9:13 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Um, its spelled heyday - one word. And I appreciate your efforts to sound bad-ass, but I don't think your attorney at HR Block provides the kind of services you are looking for.:-) It would actually be an easy job, since I could easily provide evidence that shows your lying and committing slander. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 8:15 AM, turquoiseb wrote: But you won't be able to. You won't even try. Of course, if he does, my attorney will have a hay-day with him.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
I learned TM in the old old days and never knew the name of my initiator. I only saw her once and then was checked by someone else the next day. When I got on TTC I was asked, How do we know that you ever learned TM? I said I wouldn't be there if I hadn't. They took my word for it. I was only 17 when I learned. It never occurred to me to ask the woman's name. I only saw her in the initiation room. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I have heard from two people who applied for dome badges in Fairfield that the TMO could find no record of them ever having learned TM. Both were TM teachers, and had to prove who they were by bringing in course photos from their TTC. Same thing happened (although in L.A., not Fairfield) with a couple who were trying to go on the TM-Sidhis course. The TMO could find no record of them ever having started, and when they suggested that the course office just call their initiator, the TMO could find no record of him, either. They had to track down his phone number themselves and give it to the TM National Center. :-) But that's just everyday, ordinary incompetence. What you're doing is outright lying, and you know it. We all know your track record of lying here -- posting under several aliases while denying it was you until you fucked up and posted one of your shitty songs under the alias that listed its copyright under your real name. You've *still* never owned up to having been all those other people. I don't find Vaj terribly credible, but until you or someone else can *deliver* definitive proof of your claim, a claim it remains, made by someone with an actual *proven* track record of lying on this forum. I'll be interested to see what happens with the pile on from this. Will any real TM supporter have the guts to call you on doing the exact same thing you're claim- ing Vaj does? Or will they just hang back and be silent? I'll be particularly watching seventhray1. I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. Seems to me that if you had real evidence you'd produce it, just to see this happen. But you won't be able to. You won't even try. And the *same* people here who pile on to the Vaj never learned TM meme will let you get away with it, or support you in your lie, as they have done for years. If this is the result of practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, much less being enlightened, you're welcome to it. And all of this because someone dissed a dead man you never met. Pathetic. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Vaj, that is impossible. Unlike most I know your birth name, not the phony one you use, and there is ABSOLUTELY no record of you having learned, practiced or taught TM. Perhaps Mr. Enlightened would like to tell us where and how he verified that there is no record of this. Or maybe we should assume that because even everyday TM teachers don't have access to this kind of inform- ation, Jim (never having become a teacher) is...uh... lying about it. Bottom line for me is that unless Jim can tell us exactly which TMO database he queried to supposedly find this information, and provide us with the exact details so that we can replicate and verify it our- selves, I have to assume that he is lying. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Steve (seventhray1) will probably believe Jim, and will feel no need to check out Jim's facts, just as he felt no need to check on Richard Nelson's. So, undoubtedly, will the rest of the pile on crowd. But I'm thinkin' a little proof is in order. Doesn't Jim ever THINK about what he's demonstrating as the behavior of the enlightened by doing this stuff? Getting his buttons
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I remember one fellow teacher, he opened the trunk to his massive maroon Fairlane and there were piles of scattered crumbled, grease and dirt stained initiation forms. These forms I assure you never got to national. Frankly, I have forgotten the protocol. My recollection is that we filed initiation forms at the center, I do not recall sending them to National (a la 1971-72 era.) And with centers moving, shutting down, popping up, teachers moving, etc., its a wonder if many initiation forms at the centers had a long and healthy life. And I spend a summer at Gayley, did some volunteer work around Regional and National. Though a nice facility, still, the majority were in their early to mid 20's, i could imagine a lot of stuff not filed correctly even if they got the forms. I was on the first team of guvs to hit the streets. That was chaotic, changing cast of characters, moving around to various places to give courses, abandonment of the group when the next organizational thing came along. Again, I don't recall the protocol -- I do remember the accounting forms to send National their cut. But the forms -- I don't recall sending them -- but that does not mean they were not sent. And I am SURE my course application to early courses like Squaw Valley and Asilomar are all in tact and in some data base! Ha! And my TTC and later coursing it up at later TTCs. These were last minute decisions to go to this or that course. Several I just jumped on a plane and showed up -- no prior course app or anything. Administrators were not even aware I was there for a while -- jumping around from hotel to hotel trying to find a quiet room. The point is, things were very loose, fluid, moving, people living out of suit cases, etc. That forms got tossed, not filed, etc was common. I was called up for an EMERGENCY group to go to Iran or somewhere -- after dropping everything, we sat around one of the Academies for weeks -- while plans were made (would have been nice if he plans were made prior to everyone dropping jobs, obligations etc to come.) Finally, when time to implement -- we were bussed to the airport and then it was discovered that some sterling administrator forgot the passports. This sort of exemplifies my view of how well SIMS / WPEC was organized and administered. The firm belief that everyone who was initiated in the 60's and early 70's is on some easily quieried central database is silly and laughable to anyone who was there at the time. I have heard from two people who applied for dome badges in Fairfield that the TMO could find no record of them ever having learned TM. Both were TM teachers, and had to prove who they were by bringing in course photos from their TTC. Same thing happened (although in L.A., not Fairfield) with a couple who were trying to go on the TM-Sidhis course. The TMO could find no record of them ever having started, and when they suggested that the course office just call their initiator, the TMO could find no record of him, either. They had to track down his phone number themselves and give it to the TM National Center. :-) But that's just everyday, ordinary incompetence. What you're doing is outright lying, and you know it. We all know your track record of lying here -- posting under several aliases while denying it was you until you fucked up and posted one of your shitty songs under the alias that listed its copyright under your real name. You've *still* never owned up to having been all those other people. I don't find Vaj terribly credible, but until you or someone else can *deliver* definitive proof of your claim, a claim it remains, made by someone with an actual *proven* track record of lying on this forum. I'll be interested to see what happens with the pile on from this. Will any real TM supporter have the guts to call you on doing the exact same thing you're claim- ing Vaj does? Or will they just hang back and be silent? I'll be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. Ha. Clearly you were not there in the later 60's an early 70's. Your critera and standards for irrefutable are so low, one could speculate that you may hold many other unfounded beliefs are also irrefutable. But for the sake of argument, lets assume that someone did not formally learn TM or the sidhis. Does that mean that they cannot have any knowledge of the practices and cannot compare such methods to others that they are learned in? If so, then MMY and a million TMO teachers must have been wrong. We were experts -- well we were taught to speak authoritatively, on a long list of techniques that we never had practiced (and why they were flawed relative to TM). I have never smoked crack or shot heroin (though I realize that upon reading some of my posts, some people are in disbelief) Does that mean that I have absolutely no platform to understand some of the physiology involved, the side effects, or even the experience it self? And that I can't generally compare such effects to other drugs? As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I remember one fellow teacher, he opened the trunk to his massive maroon Fairlane and there were piles of scattered crumbled, grease and dirt stained initiation forms. These forms I assure you never got to national. Frankly, I have forgotten the protocol. My recollection is that we filed initiation forms at the center, I do not recall sending them to National (a la 1971-72 era.) And with centers moving, shutting down, popping up, teachers moving, etc., its a wonder if many initiation forms at the centers had a long and healthy life. And I spend a summer at Gayley, did some volunteer work around Regional and National. Though a nice facility, still, the majority were in their early to mid 20's, i could imagine a lot of stuff not filed correctly even if they got the forms. I was on the first team of guvs to hit the streets. That was chaotic, changing cast of characters, moving around to various places to give courses, abandonment of the group when the next organizational thing came along. Again, I don't recall the protocol -- I do remember the accounting forms to send National their cut. But the forms -- I don't recall sending them -- but that does not mean they were not sent. And I am SURE my course application to early courses like Squaw Valley and Asilomar are all in tact and in some data base! Ha! And my TTC and later coursing it up at later TTCs. These were last minute decisions to go to this or that course. Several I just jumped on a plane and showed up -- no prior course app or anything. Administrators were not even aware I was there for a while -- jumping around from hotel to hotel trying to find a quiet room. The point is, things were very loose, fluid, moving, people living out of suit cases, etc. That forms got tossed, not filed, etc was common. I was called up for an EMERGENCY group to go to Iran or somewhere -- after dropping everything, we sat around one of the Academies for weeks -- while plans were made (would have been nice if he plans were made prior to everyone dropping jobs, obligations etc to come.) Finally, when time to implement -- we were bussed to the airport and then it was discovered that some sterling administrator forgot the passports. This sort of exemplifies my view of how well SIMS / WPEC was organized and administered. The firm belief that everyone who was initiated in the 60's and early 70's is on some easily quieried central database is silly and laughable to anyone who was there at the time. I have heard from two people who applied for dome badges in Fairfield that the TMO could find no record of them ever having learned TM. Both were TM teachers, and had to prove who they were by bringing in course photos from their TTC. Same thing happened (although in L.A., not Fairfield) with a couple who were trying
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Or should it be, Barry The Buddhist Boundry Buster? Oh, I know you are not a card carrying Buddhist. But you do have some affinity for the tradition. You don't? (!!??) No affinity or appreciation of (the many and varied) Buddhist traditions? Do you have affinity for or appreciation of any world traditions? If so, why is it noteworthy if someone appreciates Buddhist traditions? Most if not all world traditions point to similar things. While this or that may not be your cup of tea, your implication appears to be that appreciating Buddha is odd, if not off th program. I would think its odd NOT to appreciate Buddha and world traditions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
I have asked V a number of times for who, what, where he learned any meditation techniques. He avoids answering this and consistently disappears for a while after the query. At one point he claimed on the forum that he had received teaching from Namkhai Norbu and upon occasion indicated that he did some of Swami Rama's techniques. His avoidance is a sure sign he is hiding his actual or imaginary lineage. That usually indicates that someone has no real lineage. His only defenders here, Sing-along Sal and Bariatric-I, don't want to ask about this. After all there is only opinion and no truth to anything. So what would be the purpose? At this point, the people here seem to have decided that he is just making it all up to look important. In any case he ain't no Nicolas Flamel or Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim. It's his tough luck. We can only read it and weep about the humanity of it all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. Ha. Clearly you were not there in the later 60's an early 70's. Your critera and standards for irrefutable are so low, one could speculate that you may hold many other unfounded beliefs are also irrefutable. But for the sake of argument, lets assume that someone did not formally learn TM or the sidhis. Does that mean that they cannot have any knowledge of the practices and cannot compare such methods to others that they are learned in? If so, then MMY and a million TMO teachers must have been wrong. We were experts -- well we were taught to speak authoritatively, on a long list of techniques that we never had practiced (and why they were flawed relative to TM). I have never smoked crack or shot heroin (though I realize that upon reading some of my posts, some people are in disbelief) Does that mean that I have absolutely no platform to understand some of the physiology involved, the side effects, or even the experience it self? And that I can't generally compare such effects to other drugs? As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. I figured as much. Total bullshit. I really pity you, Jim. You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. I remember one fellow teacher, he opened the trunk to his massive maroon Fairlane and there were piles of scattered crumbled, grease and dirt stained initiation forms. These forms I assure you never got to national. Frankly, I have forgotten the protocol. My recollection is that we filed initiation forms at the center, I do not recall sending them to National (a la 1971-72 era.) And with centers moving, shutting down, popping up, teachers moving, etc., its a wonder if many initiation forms at the centers had a long and healthy life. And I spend a summer at Gayley, did some volunteer work around Regional and National. Though a nice facility, still, the majority were in their early to mid 20's, i could imagine a lot of stuff not filed correctly even if they got the forms. I was on the first team of guvs to hit the streets. That was chaotic, changing cast of characters, moving around to various places to give courses, abandonment of the group when the next organizational thing came along. Again, I don't recall the protocol -- I do remember the accounting forms to send National their cut. But the forms -- I don't recall sending them -- but that does not mean they were not sent. And I am SURE my course application to early courses like Squaw Valley and Asilomar are all in tact and in some data base! Ha! And my TTC and later coursing it up at later TTCs. These were last minute decisions to go to this or that course. Several I just jumped on a plane and showed up -- no prior course app or anything. Administrators were not even aware I was there for a while -- jumping around from hotel to hotel trying to find a quiet room. The point is, things were very loose, fluid, moving, people living out of suit cases, etc. That forms got tossed, not filed, etc was common. I was called up for an EMERGENCY group to go to Iran
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. You'll be able to entertain him for a moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
On May 27, 2011, at 2:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. You'll be able to entertain him for a moment. As someone who used to teach at the Maharishi School, Edg's opinions are valuable, esp. given his objectivity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Well said. I might add that most likely TB'ers never learned any other program either before or after doing TM. I suspect because once someone has learned something else TM doesn't look so good. Vaj definitely has a background with the Swami Rama group. When I visited Ammachi's ashram in Kerala folks were learning Sanskrit, Ayurveda and a number of other things probably considered a bit too esoteric to be taught in the TM movement (though maybe taught watered down). I've known people hot on TM then decided to go try a weekend intensive from the Muktananda camp and I never heard anything about TM from them after that. TM is yoga lite or a system for the masses. The interesting thing is that meditation for the masses across other camps is pretty much the same and differs from TM and more the way MMY originally taught. On 05/27/2011 10:54 AM, Duveyoung wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
A healthy dose of skepticism can be helpful, tempered by the prospect that the challenger may have a. arguments based on lies and false assumptions, and/or b. ulterior motives. If coupled with a. and b., one could compare the challenge to Swift Boating: Wiki: SBVT stated that Kerry's phony war crimes charges, his exaggerated claims about his own service in Vietnam, and his deliberate misrepresentation of the nature and effectiveness of Swift boat operations compel us to step forward.[6] The group challenged the legitimacy of each of the combat medals awarded to Kerry by the U.S. Navy and the disposition of his discharge. (See John Kerry military service controversy.) Further, SBVT said that Kerry's later criticism of the war was a betrayal of trust with other soldiers, and that by his activism he had caused direct harm to soldiers still at war. (See John Kerry VVAW controversy.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Well said. I might add that most likely TB'ers never learned any other program either before or after doing TM. I suspect because once someone has learned something else TM doesn't look so good. Vaj definitely has a background with the Swami Rama group. When I visited Ammachi's ashram in Kerala folks were learning Sanskrit, Ayurveda and a number of other things probably considered a bit too esoteric to be taught in the TM movement (though maybe taught watered down). I've known people hot on TM then decided to go try a weekend intensive from the Muktananda camp and I never heard anything about TM from them after that. TM is yoga lite or a system for the masses. The interesting thing is that meditation for the masses across other camps is pretty much the same and differs from TM and more the way MMY originally taught. On 05/27/2011 10:54 AM, Duveyoung wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis... turquoiseb: You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. So, as a computer professional, and a regional coordinator, you did not keep a database of your student initiations? Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. Incredible!!! Have you not heard of a file cabinet or an address book? You took their money and you were their TM Teacher, promising them enlightenment in 5-7 years fer chrissakes!!! I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. All Vaj has to do is name his initiator and what TTC he attended. It's that simple - I mean if he was at MUM, Rick would probably know him, right? Or, at the least someone would know him! But, what is really bizarre about this is that, what would Vaj be, if it turns out that did NOT get initiated into TM? That would certainly make Vaj a freak, if nothing else, for posting to TM groups for the past ten years! We can already see what a compulsive freak Barry is, after he quit TM practice nearly thirty years ago, and he still thinks that posting to Yahoo! FFL is his most important accomplishment. Go figure. It's funny, but Vaj won't admit that his gurus were Swami Rama, Trungpa Rinpoche and Kalu Rinpoche. I wonder why he makes the claim that MMY was his guru? Where is Dr. Pete when we need him?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Duveyoung: Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel... Only if you accept Vaj's premise that of all the meditation techniques known to man, TM is the only one that does NOT work. What's funny about this is that the meditation Vaj promotes, is the same thing as TM practice. So, ergo, NONE of the meditation techniques work as promised. Draw gun, shoot foot. In fact, TM is not the CAUSE of an enlightened state; TM just provides the ideal opportunity for the transcending. NO technique will cause a person to become enlightened and nobody can enlighten another. Not to mention the fact that Judy has proven Vaj to be a big fibber about MMY and TM. Where I come from, Ed, silence usually indicates agreement.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis... turquoiseb: You forget that I used to work at the Western Regional Office. At that time (the late 70s), there was no way we could check whether anyone had learned TM when they applied to go on a residence course. So, as a computer professional, and a regional coordinator, you did not keep a database of your student initiations? Actually, I was initiating in the 70's and kept a record and index file on everyone. But like many teachers of TM, when I moved I left the files with the people who replaced me. People were mobile then and there was no central repository of files since TM Centers also closed shop, relocated, changed leadership. National headquarters in Pacific Palisades was supposed to keep track of the info sent in on every person taught TM, but it seems lots got lost, never filed (very likely), blah blah. The whole TM thing in those days was filled with devotion and earnest young people doing their best to follow the guidelines...but it was not a streamlined professional org. In addition to having forms lost or never filed at local or national levels, there is another reason that I can think of that a person would not be listed as having learned TM - and that would be if the teacher never sent the money and forms in to national after the instruction. I am sure it happened, but not too often - karma and all. Early record keeping was so shoddy that there were records kept on fewer than half the people who had started. Incredible!!! Have you not heard of a file cabinet or an address book? You took their money and you were their TM Teacher, promising them enlightenment in 5-7 years fer chrissakes!!! I would be the first to give Vaj a serious truckload of shit if you could actually prove your claims, and I write this here as a promise, one that I can be held to. All Vaj has to do is name his initiator and what TTC he attended. It's that simple - I mean if he was at MUM, Rick would probably know him, right? Or, at the least someone would know him! Yes, if Vaj wants to clear this up he simply has to name his initiator and when and where he learned. It is quite simple. For some reason, he does not want to do this. But, what is really bizarre about this is that, what would Vaj be, if it turns out that did NOT get initiated into TM? That would certainly make Vaj a freak, if nothing else, for posting to TM groups for the past ten years! We can already see what a compulsive freak Barry is, after he quit TM practice nearly thirty years ago, and he still thinks that posting to Yahoo! FFL is his most important accomplishment. Go figure. It's funny, but Vaj won't admit that his gurus were Swami Rama, Trungpa Rinpoche and Kalu Rinpoche. I wonder why he makes the claim that MMY was his guru? Where is Dr. Pete when we need him?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Or should it be, Barry The Buddhist Boundry Buster? Oh, I know you are not a card carrying Buddhist. But you do have some affinity for the tradition. You don't? (!!??) Don't what(!!??)No affinity or appreciation of (the many and varied) Buddhist traditions? Tart, maybe you have just been dying to say this to someone because I'm not sure where you draw this conclusion. Do you have affinity for or appreciation of any world traditions? I guess. Why wouldn't I? If so, why is it noteworthy if someone appreciates Buddhist traditions? Hey, sounds good to me. I'll sign off on it. Most if not all world traditions point to similar things. Really? While this or that may not be your cup of tea, your implication appears to be that appreciating Buddha is odd, if not off th program. Tart, maybe step back a little. Not sure how you arrive at this conclusion. Certainly was not my intention. I was just kind of making a joke. I would think its odd NOT to appreciate Buddha and world traditions. Okay, sign me up. An honorary member of the Buddhist Appreciation Society.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
On May 27, 2011, at 4:48 PM, wayback71 wrote: Actually, I was initiating in the 70's and kept a record and index file on everyone. But like many teachers of TM, when I moved I left the files with the people who replaced me. People were mobile then and there was no central repository of files since TM Centers also closed shop, relocated, changed leadership. National headquarters in Pacific Palisades was supposed to keep track of the info sent in on every person taught TM, but it seems lots got lost, never filed (very likely), blah blah. The whole TM thing in those days was filled with devotion and earnest young people doing their best to follow the guidelines...but it was not a streamlined professional org. In addition to having forms lost or never filed at local or national levels, there is another reason that I can think of that a person would not be listed as having learned TM - and that would be if the teacher never sent the money and forms in to national after the instruction. I am sure it happened, but not too often - karma and all. I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:02 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM On May 27, 2011, at 4:48 PM, wayback71 wrote: Actually, I was initiating in the 70's and kept a record and index file on everyone. But like many teachers of TM, when I moved I left the files with the people who replaced me. People were mobile then and there was no central repository of files since TM Centers also closed shop, relocated, changed leadership. National headquarters in Pacific Palisades was supposed to keep track of the info sent in on every person taught TM, but it seems lots got lost, never filed (very likely), blah blah. The whole TM thing in those days was filled with devotion and earnest young people doing their best to follow the guidelines...but it was not a streamlined professional org. In addition to having forms lost or never filed at local or national levels, there is another reason that I can think of that a person would not be listed as having learned TM - and that would be if the teacher never sent the money and forms in to national after the instruction. I am sure it happened, but not too often - karma and all. I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal I was in the NYC TM center one time, maybe about 15 years after I had been initiated. Found all the boxes of 3-days-checking forms, organized by date, dug through them, and found my forms. July 25, 1968, Charlotte Peters.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Jeesuuz Christ. I feel like I watching a WWII movie, or cowboy and indian movie where the cavalry or the reinforcements come charging over the hill in order to save the beseiged soldiers. BTW, I thought you made some excellent points! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal Interesting that you think lying would be fun.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:02 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM On May 27, 2011, at 4:48 PM, wayback71 wrote: Actually, I was initiating in the 70's and kept a record and index file on everyone. But like many teachers of TM, when I moved I left the files with the people who replaced me. People were mobile then and there was no central repository of files since TM Centers also closed shop, relocated, changed leadership. National headquarters in Pacific Palisades was supposed to keep track of the info sent in on every person taught TM, but it seems lots got lost, never filed (very likely), blah blah. The whole TM thing in those days was filled with devotion and earnest young people doing their best to follow the guidelines...but it was not a streamlined professional org. In addition to having forms lost or never filed at local or national levels, there is another reason that I can think of that a person would not be listed as having learned TM - and that would be if the teacher never sent the money and forms in to national after the instruction. I am sure it happened, but not too often - karma and all. I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal I was in the NYC TM center one time, maybe about 15 years after I had been initiated. Found all the boxes of 3-days-checking forms, organized by date, dug through them, and found my forms. July 25, 1968, Charlotte Peters. I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. I remember Charlotte Peters - great older lady with red hair and from the SRM days. I believe she continued to check people (and perhaps teach) on a regular schedule for many many years. .
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayback71 Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 6:02 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. I remember Charlotte Peters - great older lady with red hair and from the SRM days. I believe she continued to check people (and perhaps teach) on a regular schedule for many many years. Probably because it's the only TM center in the country that has had the same center chairman (Janet Hoffman) since the 1960's.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wayback71 Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 6:02 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. I remember Charlotte Peters - great older lady with red hair and from the SRM days. I believe she continued to check people (and perhaps teach) on a regular schedule for many many years. Probably because it's the only TM center in the country that has had the same center chairman (Janet Hoffman) since the 1960's. Exactly, and she seems very organized and careful.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
You call that psycho-rant objectivity? Ha! It's just more tricycle dust blown up to watch it swirl in the wind. Objectivity is YOU giving up your teachers, courses, gurus along with actual dates so we can verify it. You are really sounding more and more like some internet pseudo-Buddhist living a pilfered life of book dhyana-samaapatti-s. Norbu webinars don't mean anything. . --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 2:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. You'll be able to entertain him for a moment. As someone who used to teach at the Maharishi School, Edg's opinions are valuable, esp. given his objectivity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
On May 27, 2011, at 6:01 PM, wayback71 wrote: I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal I was in the NYC TM center one time, maybe about 15 years after I had been initiated. Found all the boxes of 3-days-checking forms, organized by date, dug through them, and found my forms. July 25, 1968, Charlotte Peters. I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. My point exactly~~would have been nearly impossible with all the moves many of the centers made, to have kept the records intact. And what about centers that closed entirely (which was most of them)? Rick picked one of the very few in the country that was able to hold on to their records. Sal
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 6:36 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM On May 27, 2011, at 6:01 PM, wayback71 wrote: I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. My point exactly~~would have been nearly impossible with all the moves many of the centers made, to have kept the records intact. And what about centers that closed entirely (which was most of them)? Rick picked one of the very few in the country that was able to hold on to their records. Sal I was a very prescient 18-year-old.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: [Rick wrote:] Probably because it's the only TM center in the country that has had the same center chairman (Janet Hoffman) since the 1960's. Exactly, and she seems very organized and careful. Janet's a pistol. Gave (no doubt still gives) the best intro lecture I ever heard. Haven't seen her in many years; I'm amazed she's still at it. Can't imagine how she managed to keep her wits through all the various upheavals the Manhattan Center has had. I was initiated at the satellite center on West End Avenue, which was just a couple of blocks from where I was living. Intimate and comfy; I was sad when it closed. But I never had any trouble with my records. Janet must have appropriated whatever it had and put it together with what she had.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. Oy gevalt...not by *my* definition of either logic or scalpel. I'd say he wields chop-logic like a rusty butter knife and frequently loses toes to those who are better armed. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. He certainly does his best to give that impression. Question is, is he speaking from experience or just parroting what he's read or heard from others? And how can you tell what he speaks about is far more subtle? Just because the descriptions use fancier terminology and lots of Sanskrit words? Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. Yeah? How about commenting on this assertion from Vaj: Of course mindfulness of mantra or 'waiting for the mantra' is a natural and important part of TM. Does that sound to you like anything a person who had taken TTC would come out with? Do you still remember your checking notes? Where exactly do they say anything about waiting for the mantra? Just so you know, four TM teachers here--raunchy, BillyG, the do.rk, and Nabby (and one uncertified checker trainee, moi)--have all said that this is completely wrong. I think Peter did as well at one point, but I haven't been able to locate that post. (Barry will have a little trouble, BTW, discrediting these teachers' verdict by claiming I recruited them to pile on Vaj, given that neither BillyG nor--most emphatically!--the do.rk is inclined to follow my lead on anything. Plus which, Barry recently declared the do.rk to be the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days. Heh heh. He's said outright he doesn't believe Vaj ever taught TM.)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: snip But for the sake of argument, lets assume that someone did not formally learn TM or the sidhis. Does that mean that they cannot have any knowledge of the practices and cannot compare such methods to others that they are learned in? It's not a matter of any, it's a matter of enough to make a valid comparison. TM and the TM-Sidhis are particularly dicey in that regard. If so, then MMY and a million TMO teachers must have been wrong. We were experts -- well we were taught to speak authoritatively, on a long list of techniques that we never had practiced (and why they were flawed relative to TM). I'd suggest that with most other techniques, the enough bar I mentioned above is considerably lower than it is for TM. That isn't to say by any means that TM teachers get everything about the other techniques 100 percent right, but that they probably get closer than someone who had never learned TM would be able to come to getting TM 100 percent right.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
I want to see Barack's initiation form certificate. (And GWB and father -- Mike love probably still has the forms.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sal Sunshine Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 5:02 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM On May 27, 2011, at 4:48 PM, wayback71 wrote: Actually, I was initiating in the 70's and kept a record and index file on everyone. But like many teachers of TM, when I moved I left the files with the people who replaced me. People were mobile then and there was no central repository of files since TM Centers also closed shop, relocated, changed leadership. National headquarters in Pacific Palisades was supposed to keep track of the info sent in on every person taught TM, but it seems lots got lost, never filed (very likely), blah blah. The whole TM thing in those days was filled with devotion and earnest young people doing their best to follow the guidelines...but it was not a streamlined professional org. In addition to having forms lost or never filed at local or national levels, there is another reason that I can think of that a person would not be listed as having learned TM - and that would be if the teacher never sent the money and forms in to national after the instruction. I am sure it happened, but not too often - karma and all. I really doubt any records back any length of time are kept or accessible in any way~~which is undoubtedly why they ask you your TTC and initiator over and over. Or at least they ddid. A fun way to check would be to register for a course and list a fake initiator. Bet that unless someone in the office knew you personally, they wouldn't have a clue. Sal I was in the NYC TM center one time, maybe about 15 years after I had been initiated. Found all the boxes of 3-days-checking forms, organized by date, dug through them, and found my forms. July 25, 1968, Charlotte Peters. I believe the NYC TM center is one of the few who still have records going back all those years. Some years ago I remember seeing thousands of index cards, all filed alphabetically and going back forever. Somehow, they kept all this stuff despite relocating many times. I remember Charlotte Peters - great older lady with red hair and from the SRM days. I believe she continued to check people (and perhaps teach) on a regular schedule for many many years. .
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. To hold that there is something other than opinion implies you know something that is absolutely true. Can you share? You'll be able to entertain him for a moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: What the fucking hell does anyone here care about the credentials about anyone else? It's the same damned deal as being a birther. Does anyone -- ANYONE -- think the Turq understands philosophy anywhere as deeply as Vaj? -- yet Turq taught TM for sure. Turq's credentials turn out to be merely an expired license to spread TM -- not Professor Emeritus Retired. Vaj has gone toe to toe toe with just about everyone here and has held his own consistently and courageously, and he wields logic like a scalpel. There's not a spiritual topic he doesn't have considerable wherewithal to address. Again and again he's been cogent and often speaking about far more subtle levels of consciousness than TM ever delineated. Anyone, by googling, can self-educate and become as knowing of the details as I was after nine months teacher training and thousands of hours in Maharishi's presence. If he's faking anything, he's doing a better job of knowing the TM POV than some TBers here, and when he counters the TM POV, those whose depths are lesser resort to personal attacks, because they just don't have the tee shirt to be in the discussion. When I left teacher training, I didn't know jack shit compared all the other ways to be spiritual that I now know about -- no TM teacher was taught to be a true scholar or even a true teacher of what they did know -- since they were instructed how to avoid uncomfortable questioning and TO AVOID LEARNING ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE OR ONE WOULD BE TOSSED OFF ALL COURSES AND ONE'S RIGHT TO BE A TEACHER TAKEN AWAY. To question Vaj's right to be here in this den of failures, blind TBs, braggarts, trolls, obvious psychopaths and sociopaths, wandering thinkers, true hearts and fly-by-scoundrels is to be about as fascistic as one can get. Let the man talk. If you disagree with him, it's your moment to gather the clarity to counter him such that both of you get a win/win. If you attempt anything else other than mutual clarity, you're a bullying bastard. Vaj is exactly the person I wish was in the audience of the very first lecture on TM I ever heard. Can you imagine how he would have made that lecture a shambles of patchwork ideas that do not cohere around axioms everyone accepts? In fact, anyone here could make mince-meat of the TM first lecture, and those that don't want to are the most intellectually dishonest amongst this pirate crew that's thinks it's okay to crash Rick's Party. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Nice try troll. Dude, Barry doesn't read my posts. Therefore I have no clue who you are, or how you gained access to his email account. There is NO WAY you are him - just some impostor troll. I DO have evidence though, not from a database, but from a real member of the TMO who has access to such things, and it is irrefutable. As I said before, Vaj has never learned, practiced or taught TM. He also knows nothing about the TM Sidhis. Hardly surprising considering his level of understanding regarding how TM works. He has even disclosed he has no idea of how to use the mantra.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: I have asked V a number of times for who, what, where he learned any meditation techniques. He avoids answering this and consistently disappears for a while after the query. Are techniques necessary?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
In this context, technique just mean method. Agni-hotra is a method, a technique. Mahamudra is a method with many techniques. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: I have asked V a number of times for who, what, where he learned any meditation techniques. He avoids answering this and consistently disappears for a while after the query. Are techniques necessary?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: I have asked V a number of times for who, what, where he learned any meditation techniques. He avoids answering this and consistently disappears for a while after the query. Are techniques necessary? I'm glad you are catching on tartbrain, you just intellectually fantasize that the world is full of joy, love and wonder and that should take care of it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. To hold that there is something other than opinion implies you know something that is absolutely true. Can you share? I believe there is something other than opinion and I can share something which is absolutely true - that you tartbrain are an idiot.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Vaj never learned, practiced, or taught TM
Last time we went down this path I gave you a summary of Yogic Vedanta's definitions of states of unity consciousness. I did this because I doubted that you had access to the source material. It took me a lot of time because I work slowly, carefully and with continual measurement of the way we know what we know. This time is ain't necessarily so. Go read the discussions in the Meno between Socrates and the slave boy on recollection and innate knowledge. Then read his statements about mere opinion, true opinion and knowledge. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Who the fucking hell cares what you have to say about this? Go talk to Bariatric-I whose opinion is that everything is opinion. To hold that there is something other than opinion implies you know something that is absolutely true. Can you share?
