Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
the post I made had nothing to do with justification or not of TM - it was simply what I think is a well put together compilation of the intention and origins of M's movement that shows it was clearly religion - I thought the denizens of FFL would find it interesting - evidently not. The post doesn't require that anyone defend the fact they practice TM On Tue, 1/7/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014, 2:28 AM Thanks for saying this so well, Doc. I am a practitioner too in spirituality by meditation and Christianity. I am not much in to the religion end of either. I am though quite the satisfied customer of transcending meditations in spirituality and Christ. This was on the Zen calendar out in the outhouse on Friday. It is very Christian like in my experience, “The practice of meditation is not limited to the meditation mat. The practice of meditation is our entire life and is the very thread that binds our different lives together. Discovering this truth is called awakening, and it can take a circuitous route.”-Buck Doc wrote: I have a very simple justification for TM. It works. The practice mechanically allows my sense of myself to expand. Many times this has brought me into conflict with a facet of my self, or my life, that I did not want to face. The way through such circumstances, I found, is not to meditate more, but rather address what has been brought up. The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. Take it, or leave it - However, I find this simple alternation of TM, and its subsequent integration into daily life, is challenge enough for me, vs. questioning the basis or meaning of the tradition or teacher, it comes from. If it keeps working, I'll do it. If it stops working, I won't. After so many years [of doing TM], it really does boil down to just that. BTW, how was the stew?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: the post I made had nothing to do with justification or not of TM - it was simply what I think is a well put together compilation of the intention and origins of M's movement that shows it was clearly religion - I thought the denizens of FFL would find it interesting - evidently not. For some of us, Michael, the question doesn't bear pondering any more. We realized that the whole TM schtick was a disguised religion thirty or more years ago. The post doesn't require that anyone defend the fact they practice TM Or that we continue to beat a dead horse. No reflection on you, if you or your friend are dealing with this issue now and sensitive to it. It's just that for some of us it's so been there, done that that we have no interest in it any more. Like so many issues that people bring up on FFL, this one just smacks of Department of Redundancy Dept. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
On 1/7/2014 5:09 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: M's movement that shows it was clearly religion. You must have been taught a different basic TM than I was taught. There was no mention of any beliefs in my instructions from Jerry Jarvis. My instructions were so simple I could repeat the here in just a few words: Sit quietly and close your eyes, then feel the body as a whole; start the mantra, just like any other thought; when you realize you're not thinking about the mantra, just come back to it. Do this for about 20 minutes morning and evening. If you need tobe checked on your mediation, it's free. Nobody mentioned anything about God or gods in my instruction. It's pretty difficult to make a religion out of a simple stress relief program. From what I've read, you may have slipped into a trance-induction state. Some people also have a condition known as susceptibility in which they become very prone to being manipulated in order to get some free work done, such as baking bread for students in a cafeteria and living in a pod. You took a simple relaxation technique and tried to turn it into a religion - and when it became unsatisfying you quit the TM, but kept the conditioned mindset. In psychology this is called transference - you transferred your own personal spiritual failure to believe into a means to blame others for your down disapointment. If you had just stuck with the basic TM instead of trying to turn it into a cult, you would probably have done much better. You failed to realize that MMY or the TMO have NOTHING to do with your transcending.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
And may those of us for whom TM never was a religion continue to enjoy the benefits of practice while ignoring those who look down on us for having taken a more expansive view of it. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Well said Richard and if it wasn't tragic, quite funny too :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Bingo !
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Jerry Jarvis and the old secular TM movement, a lot of us started under that. Yes, spiritual and silent transcending meditations as “spiritual and not religious”. Clearly without religious requirement or formality; like the old founding primitive Quakers were to religions and church formalism as like the old Students International Meditation Society [SIMS] and International Meditation Society [IMS] were once spiritual and not religious in culture. For instance, Jerry Jarvis glowed spiritually and was very George Fox like in his role alongside the spiritual Christ-like Maharishi. Hinduism then coming now in to TM is a lot like Christian ideologues coming in to the Society of Friends and over-throwing Quaker Meetings in the 19th Century. Of course now with Bevan Morris the whole TM thing holds a confused split personality with hindu-istic pundits chanting and worshiping dieties as laws of nature and such all trying to look secular and scientific with our consciousness-based education, David Lynch, and Dome group Meissner Effect meditation practice as meditators on the other hand. Practically hardly any of the old Fairfield TM community really has much to do with the religious worship and stuff going on sponsored by that part of the movement up in the pundit compound north of M. Vedic City. -Buck ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about the nature of god, about getting the favor of gods, and about direct experience of God. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. TM teaches a system of beliefs concerning the nature of spiritual growth, for a fee
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: And may those of us for whom TM never was a religion continue to enjoy the benefits of practice while ignoring those who look down on us for having taken a more expansive view of it. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so. Can one be taking pity and laughing at someone at the same time? If so, what kind of pity is that? I will venture a guess and say it is not pity at all but complete, unmitigated scorn. With Bawwy there doesn't seem to be any middle ground; he either reveres something or he despises it. So much for nuance and intellectual sophistication.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Marshy and the leaders of the Movement were the ones who turned it all into a cult dummy On Tue, 1/7/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014, 12:52 PM On 1/7/2014 5:09 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: M's movement that shows it was clearly religion. You must have been taught a different basic TM than I was taught. There was no mention of any beliefs in my instructions from Jerry Jarvis. My instructions were so simple I could repeat the here in just a few words: Sit quietly and close your eyes, then feel the body as a whole; start the mantra, just like any other thought; when you realize you're not thinking about the mantra, just come back to it. Do this for about 20 minutes morning and evening. If you need tobe checked on your mediation, it's free. Nobody mentioned anything about God or gods in my instruction. It's pretty difficult to make a religion out of a simple stress relief program. From what I've read, you may have slipped into a trance-induction state. Some people also have a condition known as susceptibility in which they become very prone to being manipulated in order to get some free work done, such as baking bread for students in a cafeteria and living in a pod. You took a simple relaxation technique and tried to turn it into a religion - and when it became unsatisfying you quit the TM, but kept the conditioned mindset. In psychology this is called transference - you transferred your own personal spiritual failure to believe into a means to blame others for your down disapointment. If you had just stuck with the basic TM instead of trying to turn it into a cult, you would probably have done much better. You failed to realize that MMY or the TMO have NOTHING to do with your transcending.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
I got it - I didn't think of it from that point of view - thanks Barry - I had just not seen the items my buddy Bill put together quite that way. I think it is a good POV and info to present to those who are thinking of doing TM - I have to admit that is still a concern of mine. On Tue, 1/7/14, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014, 11:33 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: the post I made had nothing to do with justification or not of TM - it was simply what I think is a well put together compilation of the intention and origins of M's movement that shows it was clearly religion - I thought the denizens of FFL would find it interesting - evidently not. For some of us, Michael, the question doesn't bear pondering any more. We realized that the whole TM schtick was a disguised religion thirty or more years ago. The post doesn't require that anyone defend the fact they practice TM Or that we continue to beat a dead horse. No reflection on you, if you or your friend are dealing with this issue now and sensitive to it. It's just that for some of us it's so been there, done that that we have no interest in it any more. Like so many issues that people bring up on FFL, this one just smacks of Department of Redundancy Dept. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
lets not forget it was your Christ-like Maharishi who brought the pundits into the deal to start with. On Tue, 1/7/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014, 2:29 PM Jerry Jarvis and the old secular TM movement, a lot of us started under that. Yes, spiritual and silent transcending meditations as “spiritual and not religious”. Clearly without religious requirement or formality; like the old founding primitive Quakers were to religions and church formalism as like the old Students International Meditation Society [SIMS] and International Meditation Society [IMS] were once spiritual and not religious in culture. For instance, Jerry Jarvis glowed spiritually and was very George Fox like in his role alongside the spiritual Christ-like Maharishi. Hinduism then coming now in to TM is a lot like Christian ideologues coming in to the Society of Friends and over-throwing Quaker Meetings in the 19th Century. Of course now with Bevan Morris the whole TM thing holds a confused split personality with hindu-istic pundits chanting and worshiping dieties as laws of nature and such all trying to look secular and scientific with our consciousness-based education, David Lynch, and Dome group Meissner Effect meditation practice as meditators on the other hand. Practically hardly any of the old Fairfield TM community really has much to do with the religious worship and stuff going on sponsored by that part of the movement up in the pundit compound north of M. Vedic City. -Buck ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
The really interesting thing is how he spouts all this stuff about how human beings are all equal and how awful it is when some people purportedly look down on those with whom they disagree, while at the same time making it crystal clear how he looks down on those with whom he disagrees (as here). And may those of us for whom TM never was a religion continue to enjoy the benefits of practice while ignoring those who look down on us for having taken a more expansive view of it. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so. Can one be taking pity and laughing at someone at the same time? If so, what kind of pity is that? I will venture a guess and say it is not pity at all but complete, unmitigated scorn. With Bawwy there doesn't seem to be any middle ground; he either reveres something or he despises it. So much for nuance and intellectual sophistication.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
(Trying again with this to get the formatting right) The really interesting thing is how he spouts all this stuff about how human beings are all equal and how awful it is when some people purportedly look down on those with whom they disagree, while at the same time making it crystal clear how he looks down on those with whom he disagrees (as here). And may those of us for whom TM never was a religion continue to enjoy the benefits of practice while ignoring those who look down on us for having taken a more expansive view of it. May those who still feel compelled to repeat the old meme TM is not a religion continue to do so. May those of us who laugh at and pity them continue to do so. Can one be taking pity and laughing at someone at the same time? If so, what kind of pity is that? I will venture a guess and say it is not pity at all but complete, unmitigated scorn. With Bawwy there doesn't seem to be any middle ground; he either reveres something or he despises it. So much for nuance and intellectual sophistication.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
Dear MJ, Actually I found your friends writing interesting. A lot of people here have sat with that too. Your friend seems a little racked by religion. Some thing spiritual that might help free him a little from a binding kinds of attachment to religiosity he may have, if he is indeed being spiritually held up or obstructed by religion, might be visiting with this person: http://www.divinemotheronline.net/about/about-the-founder-connie-huebner/ http://www.divinemotheronline.net/about/about-the-founder-connie-huebner/ I see she has a call-in scheduled for tomorrow nite, Weds. http://www.divinemotheronline.net/programs-offered/free-healing-sessions/ http://www.divinemotheronline.net/programs-offered/free-healing-sessions/ She has been very helpful towards getting people over these kinds of hang-ups over the years. This might be helpful to your friend towards surmounting religion and getting on with his spiritual life. Kindly, -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Richard, interesting take on transference. I've not heard it before, not sure I agree with it. But it's fun to percolate on! On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 6:52 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: On 1/7/2014 5:09 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: M's movement that shows it was clearly religion. You must have been taught a different basic TM than I was taught. There was no mention of any beliefs in my instructions from Jerry Jarvis. My instructions were so simple I could repeat the here in just a few words: Sit quietly and close your eyes, then feel the body as a whole; start the mantra, just like any other thought; when you realize you're not thinking about the mantra, just come back to it. Do this for about 20 minutes morning and evening. If you need tobe checked on your mediation, it's free. Nobody mentioned anything about God or gods in my instruction. It's pretty difficult to make a religion out of a simple stress relief program. From what I've read, you may have slipped into a trance-induction state. Some people also have a condition known as susceptibility in which they become very prone to being manipulated in order to get some free work done, such as baking bread for students in a cafeteria and living in a pod. You took a simple relaxation technique and tried to turn it into a religion - and when it became unsatisfying you quit the TM, but kept the conditioned mindset. In psychology this is called transference - you transferred your own personal spiritual failure to believe into a means to blame others for your down disapointment. If you had just stuck with the basic TM instead of trying to turn it into a cult, you would probably have done much better. You failed to realize that MMY or the TMO have NOTHING to do with your transcending.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
My buddy is also a big fan of batgap On Tue, 1/7/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014, 9:49 PM Dear MJ, Actually I found your friends writing interesting. A lot of people here have sat with that too. Your friend seems a little racked by religion. Some thing spiritual that might help free him a little from a binding kinds of attachment to religiosity he may have, if he is indeed being spiritually held up or obstructed by religion, might be visiting with this person: http://www.divinemotheronline.net/about/about-the-founder-connie-huebner/ I see she has a call-in scheduled for tomorrow nite, Weds. http://www.divinemotheronline.net/programs-offered/free-healing-sessions/ She has been very helpful towards getting people over these kinds of hang-ups over the years. This might be helpful to your friend towards surmounting religion and getting on with his spiritual life.Kindly, -Buck
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Marshy and Religion
I presume the interviews? Or is it the discussion forum? (not to be confused with a chat room) (-:
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
I have a very simple justification for TM. It works. The practice mechanically allows my sense of myself to expand. Many times this has brought me into conflict with a facet of my self, or my life, that I did not want to face. The way through such circumstances, I found, is not to meditate more, but rather address what has been brought up. The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. Take it, or leave it - However, I find this simple alternation of TM, and its subsequent integration into daily life, is challenge enough for me, vs. questioning the basis or meaning of the tradition or teacher, it comes from. If it keeps working, I'll do it. If it stops working, I won't. After so many years [of doing TM], it really does boil down to just that. BTW, how was the stew?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about the nature of god, about getting the favor of gods, and about direct experience of God. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. TM teaches a system of beliefs concerning the nature of spiritual growth, for a fee the organization offers spiritual ceremonies (Yagyas), performed by specialists, for obtaining the favors of the gods for the acquisition of specified blessings. All of these are based on faith in the accuracy of M’s teaching. : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group. There are many people who completely devote their lives and their fortunes to M and the TM movement. Full Definition of RELIGION 1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion The TM organization offers full time monastic positions to certain qualified persons, allowing them to become Hindu monks and nuns. b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance Success with the TM technique is based on regular practice. Initiates start out with 20 minutes twice a day, peopl with advanced training often graduate to 90 minutes twice a day. This is represents a serious commitment to “the supernatural”. While the benefits of TM help sustain this commitment, there is certainly an element of faith that is also required. M also talks about the necessity of faith to achieve the goals of TM. 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. The teaching of M (“attitudes, beliefs, and practices”) have certainly been codified and institutionalized over the past 50 years. 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness The term “scrupulous conformity” is a good description especially of the people that live in TM communities, in terms of dress, language, diet, and overall lifestyle. 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith The teachings of TM include a specific set of beliefs (life after death, reincarnation, the nature of spiritual growth, etc), and the “ardor and faith” to which these are held can be witnessed by speaking to almost any committed practitioner. M’s expressed goal of “spiritually regenerating the world” is a certainly a cause that many devote their lives to. The Bhagavad Gita and TM Holy Tradition As Scripture “The BG is the highest expression of divine intelligence understandable by man.” (4:1, p.252) This is a pretty profound religious statement. “This path of action for gaining success in the world and freedom in divine consciousness has a long tradition. In its content it is eternal. Even if in time its purity is lost and it is forgotten by man, each time it is restored in the world by a wave of revival that
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Not as good as the venison stew I made last week, but its ok. The brussel sprouts I put in both really lent themselves to the gamey taste of the venison more than the chicken. On Mon, 1/6/14, doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 4:23 PM I have a very simple justification for TM. It works. The practice mechanically allows my sense of myself to expand. Many times this has brought me into conflict with a facet of my self, or my life, that I did not want to face. The way through such circumstances, I found, is not to meditate more, but rather address what has been brought up. The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. Take it, or leave it - However, I find this simple alternation of TM, and its subsequent integration into daily life, is challenge enough for me, vs. questioning the basis or meaning of the tradition or teacher, it comes from. If it keeps working, I'll do it. If it stops working, I won't. After so many years [of doing TM], it really does boil down to just that. BTW, how was the stew?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about the nature of god, about getting the favor of gods, and about direct experience of God. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. TM teaches a system of beliefs concerning the nature of spiritual growth, for a fee the organization offers spiritual ceremonies (Yagyas), performed by specialists, for obtaining the favors of the gods for the acquisition of specified blessings. All of these are based on faith in the accuracy of M’s teaching. : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group. There are many people who completely devote their lives and their fortunes to M and the TM movement. Full Definition of RELIGION 1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion The TM organization offers full time monastic positions to certain qualified persons, allowing them to become Hindu monks and nuns. b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance Success with the TM technique is based on regular practice. Initiates start out with 20 minutes twice a day, peopl with advanced training often graduate to 90 minutes twice a day. This is represents a serious commitment to “the supernatural”. While the benefits of TM help sustain this commitment, there is certainly an element of faith that is also required. M also talks about the necessity of faith to achieve the goals of TM. 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. The teaching of M (“attitudes, beliefs, and practices”) have certainly been codified and institutionalized over the past 50 years. 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness The term “scrupulous conformity” is a good description especially of the people that live in TM communities, in terms of dress, language, diet, and overall lifestyle. 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith The teachings of TM include a specific set of beliefs (life after death
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about the nature of god, about getting the favor of gods, and about direct experience of God. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. TM teaches a system of beliefs concerning the nature of spiritual growth, for a fee the organization offers spiritual ceremonies (Yagyas), performed by specialists, for obtaining the favors of the gods for the acquisition of specified blessings. All of these are based on faith in the accuracy of M’s teaching. : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group. There are many people who completely devote their lives and their fortunes to M and the TM movement. Full Definition of RELIGION 1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion The TM organization offers full time monastic positions to certain qualified persons, allowing them to become Hindu monks and nuns. b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance Success with the TM technique is based on regular practice. Initiates start out with 20 minutes twice a day, peopl with advanced training often graduate to 90 minutes twice a day. This is represents a serious commitment to “the supernatural”. While the benefits of TM help sustain this commitment, there is certainly an element of faith that is also required. M also talks about the necessity of faith to achieve the goals of TM. 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices. The teaching of M (“attitudes, beliefs, and practices”) have certainly
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
he has had doubts as to whether or not TM and Christianity are compatible ever since I roomed with him on a residence course in 1975 - he has been having more doubts lately due to my corrupting influence as I pass on all things I find about TM both the positive and negative. I think he likes talking to Jerry on some level because it re-affirms his desire to believe TM is a good thang - he did touch on some of the allegations about M's dalliances with women with Jerry and Jarvis said those things absolutely never happened. At least, he never saw them. Were I to be asking the questions, I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. But maybe Bill will ask him that sometime. Jerry did tell my friend he is not too keen on the behavior of many of the TM big wigs these days, but they did not get into specifics. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 10:18 PM OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about the nature of god, about getting the favor of gods, and about direct experience of God. : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods. TM teaches a system
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. True, that!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
he has had doubts as to whether or not TM and Christianity are compatible ever since I roomed with him on a residence course in 1975 - he has been having more doubts lately due to my corrupting influence as I pass on all things I find about TM both the positive and negative. But presumably different kinds of doubts, right? I mean, not about compatibility per se? Has he ever thought about trying Centering Prayer? The technique itself is a blatant ripoff of TM, with Christian sacred words substituted for mantras and some Christian-oriented window dressing (IMO) in terms of the recommended attitude toward/during practice, but otherwise it's a clone. I would love to know what a person who had done TM for as long as he has but is otherwise a devout (fundamentalist) Christian would experience with Centering Prayer. (But some hard-nosed fundamentalists don't think even Centering Prayer is compatible with Christianity.) I think he likes talking to Jerry on some level because it re-affirms his desire to believe TM is a good thang - he did touch on some of the allegations about M's dalliances with women with Jerry and Jarvis said those things absolutely never happened. At least, he never saw them. Wow, huge gulf between I never saw it and Absolutely never happened. One worries a bit about Jerry's state of mind if he were ever to be convinced of the dalliances... Were I to be asking the questions, I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. Indeed. But maybe Bill will ask him that sometime. Jerry did tell my friend he is not too keen on the behavior of many of the TM big wigs these days, but they did not get into specifics. That's good to know, at least (that Jerry isn't keen on their behavior). On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 10:18 PM OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Brussel sprouts! Like Lima beans, you either love 'em or hate 'em. (Love 'em).
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
True, that! TM's shiny little secret.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. We've only heard from about three skin boys so far, and none of them said they saw anything with their own eyes. From what I've read, MMY used to have an open door most of the time with a TMr guard at the door all the time. None of the skin boys I've read about ever saw MMY having sex with anyone. This is a fact. Otherwise, I guess we would have heard something more about it.Go figure. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.comwrote: he has had doubts as to whether or not TM and Christianity are compatible ever since I roomed with him on a residence course in 1975 - he has been having more doubts lately due to my corrupting influence as I pass on all things I find about TM both the positive and negative. I think he likes talking to Jerry on some level because it re-affirms his desire to believe TM is a good thang - he did touch on some of the allegations about M's dalliances with women with Jerry and Jarvis said those things absolutely never happened. At least, he never saw them. Were I to be asking the questions, I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. But maybe Bill will ask him that sometime. Jerry did tell my friend he is not too keen on the behavior of many of the TM big wigs these days, but they did not get into specifics. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 10:18 PM OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin”, the accomplishment of this aim would represent no less an event in spiritual significance than the life and death of Jesus Christ. It is difficult to talk about TM not being a “religion” for those who center their lives around the practice of the technique, and study the teaching’s of M. For those people who take TM “seriously”, who devote themselves to both the practice and to M, the following statements (in italics below) concerning an online Webster dictionary definition of religion can be honestly made: Webster Definition Of Religion re·li·gion noun \ri-ˈli-jən\ : the belief in a god or in a group of gods. TM teaches a great deal about
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Thanks for saying this so well, Doc. I am a practitioner too in spirituality by meditation and Christianity. I am not much in to the religion end of either. I am though quite the satisfied customer of transcending meditations in spirituality and Christ. This was on the Zen calendar out in the outhouse on Friday. It is very Christian like in my experience, “The practice of meditation is not limited to the meditation mat. The practice of meditation is our entire life and is the very thread that binds our different lives together. Discovering this truth is called awakening, and it can take a circuitous route.” -Buck Doc wrote: I have a very simple justification for TM. It works. The practice mechanically allows my sense of myself to expand. Many times this has brought me into conflict with a facet of my self, or my life, that I did not want to face. The way through such circumstances, I found, is not to meditate more, but rather address what has been brought up. The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. Take it, or leave it - However, I find this simple alternation of TM, and its subsequent integration into daily life, is challenge enough for me, vs. questioning the basis or meaning of the tradition or teacher, it comes from. If it keeps working, I'll do it. If it stops working, I won't. After so many years [of doing TM], it really does boil down to just that. BTW, how was the stew?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
Thank you, Buck. I appreciate your [spiritual] dedication - it is a rare thing. Yeah, the experience of Christ strikes at our very heart, and TM brings us the universe (totality), on the side, or vice-versa. I was told as an altar boy (of the Episcopalian church), at the age of 13, not to bow so deeply in front of the Cross and altar, so that brought me pause (in addition to closely passing out, twice, in the 100+ degree heat, in all of my robes - Manila, Philippines, 1968). Though the transcendent value of the Christian religions is always *easy* to find. and I enjoy your quiet humor, too! Thanks for saying this so well, Doc. I am a practitioner too in spirituality by meditation and Christianity. I am not much in to the religion end of either. I am though quite the satisfied customer of transcending meditations in spirituality and Christ. This was on the Zen calendar out in the outhouse on Friday. It is very Christian like in my experience, “The practice of meditation is not limited to the meditation mat. The practice of meditation is our entire life and is the very thread that binds our different lives together. Discovering this truth is called awakening, and it can take a circuitous route.” -Buck Doc wrote: I have a very simple justification for TM. It works. The practice mechanically allows my sense of myself to expand. Many times this has brought me into conflict with a facet of my self, or my life, that I did not want to face. The way through such circumstances, I found, is not to meditate more, but rather address what has been brought up. The practice itself, is easy and refreshing. However, like all things in life, there is another side to it. There is a lot of hard work, self reflection, and unbiased glimpses of one's truth, that occur along with TM 20 min. 2x/day, over the years. Take it, or leave it - However, I find this simple alternation of TM, and its subsequent integration into daily life, is challenge enough for me, vs. questioning the basis or meaning of the tradition or teacher, it comes from. If it keeps working, I'll do it. If it stops working, I won't. After so many years [of doing TM], it really does boil down to just that.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion
I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. Correction: The so-called personal secretaries and/or door-watchers were Conny Larsson, Billy Clayton, Rob McCutchean, Ned Wynn, and Casey Coleman; and NONE of them were ever skin boys. From what I've read, nobody working for MMY could even keep up with him on any given day. So, if true that MMY was that active way past 12:00 AM at night after everyone else had gone to sleep, and STILL managed to get up the next morning at daybreak and then work all day, I'd say this guy was simply AWSEOME! On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:15 PM, Richard Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. We've only heard from about three skin boys so far, and none of them said they saw anything with their own eyes. From what I've read, MMY used to have an open door most of the time with a TMr guard at the door all the time. None of the skin boys I've read about ever saw MMY having sex with anyone. This is a fact. Otherwise, I guess we would have heard something more about it.Go figure. On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.comwrote: he has had doubts as to whether or not TM and Christianity are compatible ever since I roomed with him on a residence course in 1975 - he has been having more doubts lately due to my corrupting influence as I pass on all things I find about TM both the positive and negative. I think he likes talking to Jerry on some level because it re-affirms his desire to believe TM is a good thang - he did touch on some of the allegations about M's dalliances with women with Jerry and Jarvis said those things absolutely never happened. At least, he never saw them. Were I to be asking the questions, I would like to know how so many other skin boys saw and heard that which Jerry did not. But maybe Bill will ask him that sometime. Jerry did tell my friend he is not too keen on the behavior of many of the TM big wigs these days, but they did not get into specifics. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 10:18 PM OK, thanks. I don't understand how he can do both with full commitment if he's so sure TM is a religious practice. TM would be OK with his being an evangelical, but evangelicalism would most definitely not be OK with his doing TM. Please do pass on anything he tells you about his conversations with Jerry Jarvis. (You could pass on to him--to Bill--my comments too if you wanted to. I'd be fascinated to hear his response.) He does his program every day, twice a day now that he's retired. Goes to church a couple times a week too - he also has been having ongoing conversations with Jerry Jarvis the last couple months. He spoke with him a couple hours last about a week before Christmas. I'll pass on any good info or stories if Bill gives me any. On Mon, 1/6/14, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Marshy and Religion To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:44 PM What do you mean by TM aficionado? He sure doesn't sound like one to me. In honor of what FFL was supposed to be and sometimes is, I offer a piece of writing sent to me by a friend who is both a devout Christian and a TM aficionado. Those of you reading may not agree or like it, but I think it makes a number of good points. Maharishi Defines Himself Through the Spiritual Regeneration Movement M defines himself as the instrument through which a precious knowledge, lost after Shankara’s revival, will be given back to the world: “It was the concern of Guru Deva, His Divinity Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, to enlighten all men everywhere that resulted in the foundation of the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement in 1958, five years after his departure from us.”(p.16) And again, “...the SRM (was) founded with the sole purpose of spiritually regenerating the lives of all men in every part of the world. (p.21) Guru Deva was M’s guru, the Spiritual Regeneration Movement (SRM) was created by M, and it is significant that the original name for M’s movement was “Spiritual Regeneration”. This is heavy stuff. These are words that belong to the domain of religion and can only be understood in that context. If M’s explicit aim was to “spiritually regenerate the world” by spreading enlightenment, creating a society where every action of the individual was “in accordance with all the laws of nature”, i.e. in Christian terms “without sin
