[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, llundrub llund...@... wrote: It's now the 6th technique and it no longer has the sanskrit and so you just place attention. It's a good technique. For a while it was the 4th technique, it was when I learned it. Some had good results, many had none at all, many people who have clear CC had nil results with this one. I think results or lack of results with this technique probably depend more on one's suggestibility than clarity of experience of PC. It's very similar to the kind of visualization exercises people get up to in various new agey groups, and a lot of those people will report amazing results. I'm flat out nil with this kind of procedure and I know that I'm a bad subject for hypnosis as well. It would be nice if someone did a study looking at people's susceptibility to suggestion and their experiences with the different techniques. I suspect a lot of these techniques rely on suggestibility rather than level of C and this is definitely one of them. But of course MUM researchers would never look for anything so obvious. If they did do the research then they'd be able to point people to the techniques that might work for them. People will be paying mega bucks for this technique but if they knew in advance that they're not the suggestible type and it's not going to work for them they could skip it and do something else.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
On Mar 14, 2009, at 5:36 AM, guyfawkes91 wrote: It would be nice if someone did a study looking at people's susceptibility to suggestion and their experiences with the different techniques. I suspect a lot of these techniques rely on suggestibility rather than level of C and this is definitely one of them. But of course MUM researchers would never look for anything so obvious. Already been done back in the 70's. One of the prominent personality traits of TMers is one called absorption. The absorption scale tests for primarilly a capacity for episodes of absorbed and 'self- altering' attention that are sustained by imaginative and 'enactive' representation. It correlates somewhat with hypnotic suggestibility. People who are adherent meditators scored highly on absorption. People who aren't interested in TM actually score near zero. It's interesting to me because it's become apparent as I've gotten older the difference between egocentric and allopathic meditation styles. In allopathic meditators, in hanging out with them, they seem to gain a greater interest in their interconnection with others. Consequently they tend to talk about the world and how their relationship with it can alter the world for the better. Talking about themselves is not so important. Egocentric meditators are all about what the researchers called 'self-altering' attention that are sustained by imaginative and 'enactive' representation. They are enthralled by their own inner experiences and about discussing them. They're also very protective of their inner experiences as if they were property and very sensitive about others commenting on them. They'll even form groups just to talk about, essentially, me and my experiences. In such situations, it can become a sort of one- upmanship of experience show-and-tell, each vying for the upper hand. If there is a given or chosen template for enlightenment, the experiences will all tend to cluster around the indoctrinated template and rely heavily on wording using in it's description, with little variation or fresh enlightened-insight. Since this eventually gets boring, it's not unusual for people to borrow experience lingo from groups with overlapping similarity.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
No offense but I always liked it because when one had meditated then they stirred their mind in a bunch of directions and it was stabilizing. BTW - Llundrub is myself and none other. I don't understand what suggestibility has to do with it considering there is no intention beyond the practice. I think people should understand that for a Hindu anyone can do puja or yajna however they are able so long as it's for benefit or wish for all, thus since TM mantras have no specific intention beyond the form of the ishtadevata one is safe from results of intention maybe making more samskaras, as is the fear of misuse of tantra. However, Maharishi tried with his mantras according to varnashrama to correctly apply the correct ishtadevata based in age. We know that Goddess is Goddess ultimately as Saraswati is God, or hey, you didn't think a Lingam gave birth did you? Hehe. Then his answer to the TM Sidhis was to make mini pundits with the readings. If you have read/heard the readings then you must wonder (maybe?) what that was all about. On the other hand - key of turning of wheel of dharma is mind and intention. How does that go again? So many disparate threads here on positives and negatives. I expect a bit less dualisms from you peeps. - Original Message - From: guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, llundrub llund...@... wrote: It's now the 6th technique and it no longer has the sanskrit and so you just place attention. It's a good technique. For a while it was the 4th technique, it was when I learned it. Some had good results, many had none at all, many people who have clear CC had nil results with this one. I think results or lack of results with this technique probably depend more on one's suggestibility than clarity of experience of PC. It's very similar to the kind of visualization exercises people get up to in various new agey groups, and a lot of those people will report amazing results. I'm flat out nil with this kind of procedure and I know that I'm a bad subject for hypnosis as well. It would be nice if someone did a study looking at people's susceptibility to suggestion and their experiences with the different techniques. I suspect a lot of these techniques rely on suggestibility rather than level of C and this is definitely one of them. But of course MUM researchers would never look for anything so obvious. If they did do the research then they'd be able to point people to the techniques that might work for them. People will be paying mega bucks for this technique but if they knew in advance that they're not the suggestible type and it's not going to work for them they could skip it and do something else. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Mar 14, 2009, at 5:36 AM, guyfawkes91 wrote: It would be nice if someone did a study looking at people's susceptibility to suggestion and their experiences with the different techniques. I suspect a lot of these techniques rely on suggestibility rather than level of C and this is definitely one of them. But of course MUM researchers would never look for anything so obvious. Of course, since discussion of meditation experiences outside specific contexts is discouraged by the TMO, the research you cite below may be a function of self-selection. Additionally, in contexts where there is a structured environment to practice TM (e.g. Quiet Time ala David Lynch Foundation), there's been no studies done to see what the result of regular TM practice does on those measures. FInally, just how wide-spread are these measures? Are they still used in modern studies? Already been done back in the 70's. One of the prominent personality traits of TMers is one called absorption. The absorption scale tests for primarilly a capacity for episodes of absorbed and 'self- altering' attention that are sustained by imaginative and 'enactive' representation. It correlates somewhat with hypnotic suggestibility. People who are adherent meditators scored highly on absorption. People who aren't interested in TM actually score near zero. It's interesting to me because it's become apparent as I've gotten older the difference between egocentric and allopathic meditation styles. In allopathic meditators, in hanging out with them, they seem to gain a greater interest in their interconnection with others. Consequently they tend to talk about the world and how their relationship with it can alter the world for the better. Talking about themselves is not so important. Egocentric meditators are all about what the researchers called 'self-altering' attention that are sustained by imaginative and 'enactive' representation. They are enthralled by their own inner experiences and about discussing them. They're also very protective of their inner experiences as if they were property and very sensitive about others commenting on them. They'll even form groups just to talk about, essentially, me and my experiences. In such situations, it can become a sort of one- upmanship of experience show-and-tell, each vying for the upper hand. If there is a given or chosen template for enlightenment, the experiences will all tend to cluster around the indoctrinated template and rely heavily on wording using in it's description, with little variation or fresh enlightened-insight. Since this eventually gets boring, it's not unusual for people to borrow experience lingo from groups with overlapping similarity.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig lengli...@... wrote: snip Of course, since discussion of meditation experiences outside specific contexts is discouraged by the TMO, the research you cite below may be a function of self-selection. Additionally, in contexts where there is a structured environment to practice TM (e.g. Quiet Time ala David Lynch Foundation), there's been no studies done to see what the result of regular TM practice does on those measures. FInally, just how wide-spread are these measures? Are they still used in modern studies? One also wonders how the measures would take into account the TMers bouncing their butts off in Fairfield and elsewhere for world peace, if, as Vaj would like us to believe, TMers are representative of egocentric meditators who have no concern for the world beyond their own inner experiences. [Vaj wrote:] snip It's interesting to me because it's become apparent as I've gotten older the difference between egocentric and allopathic meditation styles. In allopathic meditators, in hanging out with them, they seem to gain a greater interest in their interconnection with others. Consequently they tend to talk about the world and how their relationship with it can alter the world for the better. Talking about themselves is not so important. Egocentric meditators are all about what the researchers called 'self-altering' attention that are sustained by imaginative and 'enactive' representation. They are enthralled by their own inner experiences and about discussing them. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
How is it possible for illiterate persons and children to do Gayatri Sadhana, for whom the pronunciation of the Mantra is somewhat difficult? Illiterate persons who cannot utter Gayatri Mantra correctly, can perform Jap of Panchakshari Gayatri Om bhoor Bhuvaha Swaha. If they cannot utter even these words correctly, they can perform Jap of Hari Om Tat-Sat. This also serves the purpose of Panchakshari Gayatri Mantra. http://www.mantravidya.com/Preparation-for-mantra.asp --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: --- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wgm4u@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Peter wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. Here's the original: Full Age of Enlightenment Technique After T[ranscendental]M[editation]S[idhi]P[rogram]: Place attention on the following in sequence: Nostrils Lips Ears Eyes Between Brows Top of head Whole head Throat Chest Stomach Sides of the body Back Upper back Shoulder blades Upper arms Lower arms Palms Fingers Upper legs Ankles Feet Whole body Then have sequential and growing awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras which follow: City you are in Country you are in Continent (North/SouthAmerica) Africa Europe Austral-Asia Whole world Earth and the Sun together The Solar System The Galaxy Clusters of Galaxies Whole Universe The Absolute The Whole Body Lokas (done simultaneously with the above): Om Bhu (mentally utter at level of clouds) Om Bhu Va (higher and higher) Om Sva Om Maha Om Jana Om Tapa Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of your head. Have an awareness of the Whole Body. Sutra: Soma, soma, soma. Rest 5-10 minutes. WOWI thought OM was a NO NO with MMY (for monks only), what happened? Maybe these purusha *were* being treated as monks and didn't even know it? Thanks,
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajrana...@... wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Peter wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. Here's the original: Full Age of Enlightenment Technique After T[ranscendental]M[editation]S[idhi]P[rogram]: Place attention on the following in sequence: Nostrils Lips Ears Eyes Between Brows Top of head Whole head Throat Chest Stomach Sides of the body Back Upper back Shoulder blades Upper arms Lower arms Palms Fingers Upper legs Ankles Feet Whole body Then have sequential and growing awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras which follow: City you are in Country you are in Continent (North/SouthAmerica) Africa Europe Austral-Asia Whole world Earth and the Sun together The Solar System The Galaxy Clusters of Galaxies Whole Universe The Absolute The Whole Body Lokas (done simultaneously with the above): Om Bhu (mentally utter at level of clouds) Om Bhu Va (higher and higher) Om Sva Om Maha Om Jana Om Tapa Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of your head. Have an awareness of the Whole Body. Sutra: Soma, soma, soma. Rest 5-10 minutes. WOWI thought OM was a NO NO with MMY (for monks only), what happened? Maybe these purusha *were* being treated as monks and didn't even know it? Thanks,
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. wg...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Peter wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. Here's the original: Full Age of Enlightenment Technique After T[ranscendental]M[editation]S[idhi]P[rogram]: Place attention on the following in sequence: Nostrils Lips Ears Eyes Between Brows Top of head Whole head Throat Chest Stomach Sides of the body Back Upper back Shoulder blades Upper arms Lower arms Palms Fingers Upper legs Ankles Feet Whole body Then have sequential and growing awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras which follow: City you are in Country you are in Continent (North/SouthAmerica) Africa Europe Austral-Asia Whole world Earth and the Sun together The Solar System The Galaxy Clusters of Galaxies Whole Universe The Absolute The Whole Body Lokas (done simultaneously with the above): Om Bhu (mentally utter at level of clouds) Om Bhu Va (higher and higher) Om Sva Om Maha Om Jana Om Tapa Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of your head. Have an awareness of the Whole Body. Sutra: Soma, soma, soma. Rest 5-10 minutes. WOWI thought OM was a NO NO with MMY (for monks only), what happened? Maybe these purusha *were* being treated as monks and didn't even know it? Thanks,
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. Oh thanks Buddy, but Dalai Lama says no difference between aims of Buddhism and Hinduism. They are same. Yes, lecture he gave in Bodhgaya. We don't spend time thinking about differences of absolute. Hehe. Giggle.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Kirk wrote: --- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. Oh thanks Buddy, but Dalai Lama says no difference between aims of Buddhism and Hinduism. They are same. Yes, lecture he gave in Bodhgaya. We don't spend time thinking about differences of absolute. Hehe. Giggle. Aims is probably the operative word. To the Dalai Lama, all religions have a similar aim. But that does not mean they are the same. Forms of Hindu awakening seek liberation, so does Buddhism, so they are similar in their aims, but not the same. He interestingly stated when he spoke at the Kumbha Mela that 'the time for conversion has ended' and that Hinduism and Buddhism shared a great bit. In other words, be happy with your chosen religion, don't go around trying to convert people to your religion. He believes people should seek out the awakening schools in their own religions. If you think about that and think of the bloodiest religions, probably Christianity and Islam, what would be the best course of action? Mass conversion? It makes sense to encourage people to seek out and therefore strengthen the awakening traditions in their own religions in order to encourage world peace. The Bodgaya Inteviews [with HHDL] Pg 21: Q: brief paraphrase (Can a master who is a Saivite and upholds strict discipline and selfless compassion attain liberation?) HHDL: During the Buddha's own time there were many non-Buddhist teachers whom the Buddha could not helptoday followers of Siva have their own religious practices and they reap some benefit through this their life will gradually changemy position is that Siva-ji's followers should practice according to their own beliefs...that is sufficient. Q: But they will not attain liberation! HHDL: We Buddhists ourselves will not be liberated at once. In our own case it will take time. Gradually we will be able to reach moksha or nirvana but the majority of Buddhists will not achieve this within their own lifetimes. So there's no hurry. If Buddhists themselves have to wait, perhaps many lifetimes...why should we expect different for non-Buddhists?. pg 23 Q But is it only the Buddha who can be the ultimate source of refuge? HHDL: it is necessary to examine what is meant by liberation or salvation. Liberation in which a mind that understands the sphere of reality is a state that only Buddhists can accomplish This kind of moksa or nirvana is only explained in the Buddhist scriptures and is achieved only through Buddhist practice. According to certain religions however, salvation is a placea beautiful paradise... To attain such a state as this, to achieve such a state of moksa, does not require the practice of emptiness, the understanding of reality. In Buddhism itself, we believe that through the accumulation of merit one can obtain rebirth in heavenly paradises like Tusita. Q: So, if one is a follower of Vedanta and one reaches the state of satcitananda, would this not be considered ultimate liberation? HHDL: Again, it depends upon how you interpret the words, ultimate liberation (then the original quote that you posted continues here).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
Yeah, I know, I was being nice. A khenpo I knew said Maharishi was very very smart. It's all not a wide divide. Shiva helps me much. How else could I have meditated in New Orleans for the last 20 years? I brought huge amounts of rudraksha and lingas and such to my home. Shiva is in my Buddhist sadhanas. There's no real saying that Kuntuzangpo and Siva are not one and the same if you consider their names, yes? Okay, now get a checking aye? We are already this tushita heaven, yes? Checking over. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975 On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Kirk wrote: --- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. Oh thanks Buddy, but Dalai Lama says no difference between aims of Buddhism and Hinduism. They are same. Yes, lecture he gave in Bodhgaya. We don't spend time thinking about differences of absolute. Hehe. Giggle. Aims is probably the operative word. To the Dalai Lama, all religions have a similar aim. But that does not mean they are the same. Forms of Hindu awakening seek liberation, so does Buddhism, so they are similar in their aims, but not the same. He interestingly stated when he spoke at the Kumbha Mela that 'the time for conversion has ended' and that Hinduism and Buddhism shared a great bit. In other words, be happy with your chosen religion, don't go around trying to convert people to your religion. He believes people should seek out the awakening schools in their own religions. If you think about that and think of the bloodiest religions, probably Christianity and Islam, what would be the best course of action? Mass conversion? It makes sense to encourage people to seek out and therefore strengthen the awakening traditions in their own religions in order to encourage world peace. The Bodgaya Inteviews [with HHDL] Pg 21: Q: brief paraphrase (Can a master who is a Saivite and upholds strict discipline and selfless compassion attain liberation?) HHDL: During the Buddha's own time there were many non-Buddhist teachers whom the Buddha could not helptoday followers of Siva have their own religious practices and they reap some benefit through this their life will gradually changemy position is that Siva-ji's followers should practice according to their own beliefs...that is sufficient. Q: But they will not attain liberation! HHDL: We Buddhists ourselves will not be liberated at once. In our own case it will take time. Gradually we will be able to reach moksha or nirvana but the majority of Buddhists will not achieve this within their own lifetimes. So there's no hurry. If Buddhists themselves have to wait, perhaps many lifetimes...why should we expect different for non-Buddhists?. pg 23 Q But is it only the Buddha who can be the ultimate source of refuge? HHDL: it is necessary to examine what is meant by liberation or salvation. Liberation in which a mind that understands the sphere of reality is a state that only Buddhists can accomplish This kind of moksa or nirvana is only explained in the Buddhist scriptures and is achieved only through Buddhist practice. According to certain religions however, salvation is a placea beautiful paradise... To attain such a state as this, to achieve such a state of moksa, does not require the practice of emptiness, the understanding of reality. In Buddhism itself, we believe that through the accumulation of merit one can obtain rebirth in heavenly paradises like Tusita. Q: So, if one is a follower of Vedanta and one reaches the state of satcitananda, would this not be considered ultimate liberation? HHDL: Again, it depends upon how you interpret the words, ultimate liberation (then the original quote that you posted continues here).
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
Another interesting quote on how in Buddhist terms, an Advaitin would not become a Buddha, (but, of course, a Buddhist would not become a jivanmukta or a paramahamsa either!): Dalai Lama: If we view the world's religions from the widest possible viewpoint, and examine their ultimate goal, we find that all of the major world religions are directed to the achievement of permanent human happiness. They are all directed toward that goal. To this end, the different world's religions teach different doctrines which help transform the person. In this regard, all religions are the same, there is no conflict. Liberation in which 'a mind that understands the sphere of reality annihilates all defilements in the sphere of reality' is a state that only Buddhists can accomplish. This kind of moksa or Nirvana is only explained in the Buddhist scriptures, and is achieved only through Buddhist practice. Questioner: So, if one is a follower of Vedanta, and one reaches the state of satcitananda, would this not be considered ultimate liberation? Dalai Lama: Again, it depends upon how you interpret the words, 'ultimate liberation.' The moksa which is described in the Buddhist religion is achieved only through the practice of emptiness. And this kind of nirvana or liberation, as I have defined it above, cannot be achieved even by Svatantrika Madhyamikas, by Cittamatras, Sautrantikas, or Vaibhasikas. The follower of these schools, though Buddhists, do not understand the actual doctrine of emptiness. Because they cannot realize emptiness, or reality, they cannot accomplish the kind of liberation I defined previously. Source: The Bodhgaya Interviews, Snow Lion, 1988 On Mar 13, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Vaj wrote: On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Kirk wrote: --- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. Oh thanks Buddy, but Dalai Lama says no difference between aims of Buddhism and Hinduism. They are same. Yes, lecture he gave in Bodhgaya. We don't spend time thinking about differences of absolute. Hehe. Giggle. Aims is probably the operative word. To the Dalai Lama, all religions have a similar aim. But that does not mean they are the same. Forms of Hindu awakening seek liberation, so does Buddhism, so they are similar in their aims, but not the same. He interestingly stated when he spoke at the Kumbha Mela that 'the time for conversion has ended' and that Hinduism and Buddhism shared a great bit. In other words, be happy with your chosen religion, don't go around trying to convert people to your religion. He believes people should seek out the awakening schools in their own religions. If you think about that and think of the bloodiest religions, probably Christianity and Islam, what would be the best course of action? Mass conversion? It makes sense to encourage people to seek out and therefore strengthen the awakening traditions in their own religions in order to encourage world peace. The Bodgaya Inteviews [with HHDL] Pg 21: Q: brief paraphrase (Can a master who is a Saivite and upholds strict discipline and selfless compassion attain liberation?) HHDL: During the Buddha's own time there were many non-Buddhist teachers whom the Buddha could not helptoday followers of Siva have their own religious practices and they reap some benefit through this their life will gradually changemy position is that Siva-ji's followers should practice according to their own beliefs...that is sufficient. Q: But they will not attain liberation! HHDL: We Buddhists ourselves will not be liberated at once. In our own case it will take time. Gradually we will be able to reach moksha or nirvana but the majority of Buddhists will not achieve this within their own lifetimes. So there's no hurry. If Buddhists themselves have to wait, perhaps many lifetimes...why should we expect different for non-Buddhists?. pg 23 Q But is it only the Buddha who can be the ultimate source of refuge? HHDL: it is necessary to examine what is meant by liberation or salvation. Liberation in which a mind that understands the sphere of reality is a state that only Buddhists can accomplish This kind of moksa or nirvana is only explained in the Buddhist scriptures and is achieved only through Buddhist practice. According to certain religions however, salvation is a placea beautiful paradise... To attain such a state as this, to achieve such a state of moksa, does not require the practice of emptiness, the understanding of reality. In Buddhism itself, we believe that through the accumulation of merit one can obtain rebirth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
But you ignore overlapping of esoteric tantric systems mainly of Dakini/Shakta, (Read Buddhist Goddesses of India (Shaw) and basic sphere of Urgyen. All this other stuff is mere verbaige. Simple Dzogchen cuts through reams of scriptures. Only difference between Sanatana Dharma and Dzogchen is practitioner's good fortune. Nothing else. As for Buddhism I only know what they tell me. But I'm more down for Gauri yajnas and Sowbaugya. A good Chod is a blast, and I've been soaking in Tsok for years. David Bowie also still put out good music after '96.' Buddhists can't tell me that though. I have to ascertain it for myself. - Original Message - From: Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975 Another interesting quote on how in Buddhist terms, an Advaitin would not become a Buddha, (but, of course, a Buddhist would not become a jivanmukta or a paramahamsa either!): Dalai Lama: If we view the world's religions from the widest possible viewpoint, and examine their ultimate goal, we find that all of the major world religions are directed to the achievement of permanent human happiness. They are all directed toward that goal. To this end, the different world's religions teach different doctrines which help transform the person. In this regard, all religions are the same, there is no conflict. Liberation in which 'a mind that understands the sphere of reality annihilates all defilements in the sphere of reality' is a state that only Buddhists can accomplish. This kind of moksa or Nirvana is only explained in the Buddhist scriptures, and is achieved only through Buddhist practice. Questioner: So, if one is a follower of Vedanta, and one reaches the state of satcitananda, would this not be considered ultimate liberation? Dalai Lama: Again, it depends upon how you interpret the words, 'ultimate liberation.' The moksa which is described in the Buddhist religion is achieved only through the practice of emptiness. And this kind of nirvana or liberation, as I have defined it above, cannot be achieved even by Svatantrika Madhyamikas, by Cittamatras, Sautrantikas, or Vaibhasikas. The follower of these schools, though Buddhists, do not understand the actual doctrine of emptiness. Because they cannot realize emptiness, or reality, they cannot accomplish the kind of liberation I defined previously. Source: The Bodhgaya Interviews, Snow Lion, 1988 On Mar 13, 2009, at 4:50 PM, Vaj wrote: On Mar 13, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Kirk wrote: --- (below - the Lokas section)what I've been saying all along: chant the Gayatri mantra: OM Bhur Bhuvah Svah, Tat Savituh Varenyam, Bhargo Devasya Dhimahi, Dhiyoyonah Prachodatat. But I no longer chant that mantra. I chant Om Mani Padme Hum and a mantra to the Medicine Master Buddha. On the whole, Buddhism is superior. Oh thanks Buddy, but Dalai Lama says no difference between aims of Buddhism and Hinduism. They are same. Yes, lecture he gave in Bodhgaya. We don't spend time thinking about differences of absolute. Hehe. Giggle. Aims is probably the operative word. To the Dalai Lama, all religions have a similar aim. But that does not mean they are the same. Forms of Hindu awakening seek liberation, so does Buddhism, so they are similar in their aims, but not the same. He interestingly stated when he spoke at the Kumbha Mela that 'the time for conversion has ended' and that Hinduism and Buddhism shared a great bit. In other words, be happy with your chosen religion, don't go around trying to convert people to your religion. He believes people should seek out the awakening schools in their own religions. If you think about that and think of the bloodiest religions, probably Christianity and Islam, what would be the best course of action? Mass conversion? It makes sense to encourage people to seek out and therefore strengthen the awakening traditions in their own religions in order to encourage world peace. The Bodgaya Inteviews [with HHDL] Pg 21: Q: brief paraphrase (Can a master who is a Saivite and upholds strict discipline and selfless compassion attain liberation?) HHDL: During the Buddha's own time there were many non-Buddhist teachers whom the Buddha could not helptoday followers of Siva have their own religious practices and they reap some benefit through this their life will gradually changemy position is that Siva-ji's followers should practice according to their own beliefs...that is sufficient. Q: But they will not attain liberation! HHDL: We Buddhists ourselves will not be liberated at once. In our own case it will take time. Gradually we will be able to reach moksha or nirvana but the majority of Buddhists will not achieve
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- On Fri, 3/13/09, BillyG. wg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: BillyG. wg...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, March 13, 2009, 11:46 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajrana...@... wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Peter wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. Here's the original: Full Age of Enlightenment Technique After T[ranscendental]M[editation]S[idhi]P[rogram]: Place attention on the following in sequence: Nostrils Lips Ears Eyes Between Brows Top of head Whole head Throat Chest Stomach Sides of the body Back Upper back Shoulder blades Upper arms Lower arms Palms Fingers Upper legs Ankles Feet Whole body Then have sequential and growing awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras which follow: City you are in Country you are in Continent (North/SouthAmerica) Africa Europe Austral-Asia Whole world Earth and the Sun together The Solar System The Galaxy Clusters of Galaxies Whole Universe The Absolute The Whole Body Lokas (done simultaneously with the above): Om Bhu (mentally utter at level of clouds) Om Bhu Va (higher and higher) Om Sva Om Maha Om Jana Om Tapa Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of your head. Have an awareness of the Whole Body. Sutra: Soma, soma, soma. Rest 5-10 minutes. WOWI thought OM was a NO NO with MMY (for monks only), what happened? Maybe these purusha *were* being treated as monks and didn't even know it? Thanks, There was no purusha in '75! To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. pure, unmitigated evil!
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. pure, unmitigated evil! On par with the execution of millions of Jews, for sure for sure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 20, 2007, at 9:30 AM, Peter wrote: This was not the most common A of E technique given out in '75. In fact, I've never heard of this specific technique before. MMY gave out many different ones and asked us to stay in touch with him by writing what our experiences were and sending him these reports. Here's the original: Full Age of Enlightenment Technique After T[ranscendental]M[editation]S[idhi]P[rogram]: Place attention on the following in sequence: Nostrils Lips Ears Eyes Between Brows Top of head Whole head Throat Chest Stomach Sides of the body Back Upper back Shoulder blades Upper arms Lower arms Palms Fingers Upper legs Ankles Feet Whole body Then have sequential and growing awareness of the following spaces, along with the mantras which follow: City you are in Country you are in Continent (North/SouthAmerica) Africa Europe Austral-Asia Whole world Earth and the Sun together The Solar System The Galaxy Clusters of Galaxies Whole Universe The Absolute The Whole Body Lokas (done simultaneously with the above): Om Bhu (mentally utter at level of clouds) Om Bhu Va (higher and higher) Om Sva Om Maha Om Jana Om Tapa Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) When you utter Sat Yam place attention on the top of your head. Have an awareness of the Whole Body. Sutra: Soma, soma, soma. Rest 5-10 minutes. Thanks for posting this. Very refreshing (though I just walked myself through it in 'waking state')!
[FairfieldLife] Re: A. Of E. Techniques- Circa 1975
Om Sat Yam (pron: Om Sut Yum) Yim yam yassa killy killy massa yim yam yoo, yim yam yoo :0
