[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. We tend to have something of a knee-jerk reaction to any phrase including the word dictatorship because the only examples we know about of such governance are so repellent. We seem therefore to be assuming that MMY's proposal can be nothing other than repellent and dump on him for even suggesting such a thing--when he may not be suggesting anything like what we imagine. Again, whether it makes any *practical* sense is really a different issue. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
on 4/18/06 11:55 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
On Apr 18, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Rick Archer wrote: Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? He a kindler, gentler dictator. Now shaddup and recertify. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
on 4/18/06 11:58 AM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=49377 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 11:55 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? That he doesn't have a clear notion of what these guys have inflicted on their countries? Or possibly that he thinks their one *good* point is that they're in a position to require their citizens to learn TM, and that once they're all meditating, they'll get rid of their current rulers? Thorn to remove a thorn... That seems to have been what happened in the Philippines (although correlation does not necessarily mean causation, of course). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
That his words can be twisted to the point that a pretzel would look like a straight line as long as it suits the person doing it...basically, whatever he says is right simply because he says it, and the rest of us are just too ignorant and/or blind to be able to ferret out his real meaning. And when his real meaning becomes clear, of course we will all agree with everything he has ever said, hosannas will be heard, God will be in his/her heaven, and all will be right with the world. :) Of course, alternatively, one could also conclude that these quotes are/were the ravings of someone a few French fries short of a Happy Meal (not to put too fine a point in it) and that those that try and twist are desperate to make some sense, any sense, out of what their leader has said. And don't forget Marcos. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Rick Archer wrote: > Granting your point above--and others along the same lines > having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation > --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been > overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened > dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely > resembling what we think of when we hear the word > dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That his words can be twisted to the point that a pretzel would look like a straight line as long as it suits the person doing it...basically, whatever he says is right simply because he says it, and the rest of us are just too ignorant and/or blind to be able to ferret out his real meaning. And when his real meaning becomes clear, of course we will all agree with everything he has ever said, hosannas will be heard, God will be in his/her heaven, and all will be right with the world. :) Of course, alternatively, one could also conclude that these quotes are/were the ravings of someone a few French fries short of a Happy Meal (not to put too fine a point in it) and that those that try and twist are desperate to make some sense, any sense, out of what their leader has said. I have nothing to add here, since we seem to be agreed. I'm replying just to thank you for a few French fries short of a Happy Meal. That cracked me right up. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm replying just to thank you for a few French fries short of a Happy Meal. That cracked me right up. :-) It seems to have really resonated with you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That his words can be twisted to the point that a pretzel would look like a straight line as long as it suits the person doing it... Just out of curiosity, how is suggesting that MMY may have had something in mind by enlightened dictatorship that is markedly different from our current notions of the nature of dictatorship twisting his words? basically, whatever he says is right simply because he says it, I guess you must have missed the part where I acknowledged that there's excellent reason to be skeptical of the *feasibility* of whatever it is he has in mind. and the rest of us are just too ignorant and/or blind to be able to ferret out his real meaning. And when his real meaning becomes clear, of course we will all agree with everything he has ever said, hosannas will be heard, God will be in his/her heaven, and all will be right with the world. :) You seem to have picked up Barry's tendency to fantasize. Either that, or you don't read so good. Maharishi's made some weird statements. Why on earth is exploring various possibilities as to what he may have meant equivalent, in your alleged mind, to asserting that one of the less-negative possibilities is the real meaning? Of course, alternatively, one could also conclude that these quotes are/were the ravings of someone a few French fries short of a Happy Meal (not to put too fine a point in it) and that those that try and twist are desperate to make some sense, any sense, out of what their leader has said. Or, they're putting up the best case they can to see whether someone can knock it down. That's what people *do*--rational people, anyway--when they're interested in weighing the validity of various points of view. Also like Barry, you're erroneously equating Maharishi says (or in this case, may mean) with What MMY says (or in this case, may mean) is right. Apparently, as far as you're concerned, anyone who proposes anything but the most jaded and negative view of what MMY does and says is guilty of being a nutcase. No alternative possibilities may even be considered. Funny, that's the same accusation frequently leveled here against TBs--that anyone who suggests a view different from theirs is labeled as crazy. And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. If I were a TMer version of Barry, I might suggest that you're overreacting so wildly because even the *possibility* that MMY isn't quite such a horrible person you want to believe he is scares you to death. Again I'll observe that the behavior of many of the True Non-Believers on this forum is *exactly the same* as--and often even worse than--the behavior of which they accuse the TBs, just in support of the opposite perspective. On Apr 18, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Rick Archer wrote: [I wrote:] Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
on 4/18/06 2:20 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. I was there. Many did start meditating. Some became teachers. Some are still teaching and are even on Purusha. Many wonderful people there. But we were locked in our hotel for a month as mobs protested our presence in the street below. There was a fatal fire or suspicious origin in one of our hotels. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that our activities resulted in Marcos' ejection. In fact, Maharishi did all he could to throw his support behind Marcos. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. Wow, not even the TMO has put out any fake superradiance research claiming this, have they? The TMO got run out of there after aligning themselves with Marcos (All Hail President Marcos! being the mantra MMY had the group chanting in some meetings) and trying to buy that university which got blocked after significant street protests by the people - clearly the non-meditating incoherent philipinos. As I recall, the marketing message being given to Marcos' people was that the TMO programs would increase social order and help put down the growing protests among the (pro-democracy rabble) people. My bet is that if you got MMY in a truthful moment he would say that Marcos not buying into our programs and next to no-one learning TM in the philippines at that time is the reason he got ousted. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/18/06 11:55 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? That he doesn't have a clear notion of what these guys have inflicted on their countries? Or possibly that he thinks their one *good* point is that they're in a position to require their citizens to learn TM, and that once they're all meditating, they'll get rid of their current rulers? Thorn to remove a thorn... That seems to have been what happened in the Philippines (although correlation does not necessarily mean causation, of course). That *good* point is probably why he said it, to get in their good graces. But I'm sure with a little more reflection he would have also seen that 'force' as in compelling, sets up it's own backlash because it's against the natual tendency for increasing (inner and outer) freedom - greater happiness. That's why it hasn't worked so far. The dictators can't be hoodwinked into doing something that could remove their power and control. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 2:20 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. I was there. Many did start meditating. Some became teachers. Some are still teaching and are even on Purusha. Many wonderful people there. But we were locked in our hotel for a month as mobs protested our presence in the street below. There was a fatal fire or suspicious origin in one of our hotels. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that our activities resulted in Marcos' ejection. In fact, Maharishi did all he could to throw his support behind Marcos. I said in another post, with reference to Marcos, that correlation didn't imply causation. I don't have the foggiest whether TM was the reason for Marcos being ejected, or whether it was on its way to happening anyway. If TM was the reason, I have no idea whether whether MMY expected that outcome, or whether it came as a surprise. If it was a surprise, I have no idea whether it was pleasant or unpleasant. But based on what little I know of the episode--including what you write above--I don't think one can unequivocally rule TM out as the cause of Marcos's downfall; I don't think we can assume with any certainty that the project was a failure, if the goal was to improve the lot of the people of the Philippines (at least for a while). I don't think the protests say anything at all about whether TM was the cause. That MMY threw his support behind Marcos *may* say something about what MMY expected, or maybe not; I don't know the specifics of that support (and I'd be interested to hear more if you care to share it). My real point in all this is what it usually is--simply that, objectively speaking, the extreme negative view of MMY is no more certain than the extreme positive view. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. Wow, not even the TMO has put out any fake superradiance research claiming this, have they? Does the TMO put out fake superradiance research? In this case, the TMO wasn't in a position to make a claim, with or without research, for exactly the reasons you state: getting rid of Marcos was not the goal the project had announced. But might it have been *nature's* goal? The TMO got run out of there after aligning themselves with Marcos (All Hail President Marcos! being the mantra MMY had the group chanting in some meetings) and trying to buy that university which got blocked after significant street protests by the people - clearly the non-meditating incoherent philipinos. As I recall, the marketing message being given to Marcos' people was that the TMO programs would increase social order and help put down the growing protests among the (pro-democracy rabble) people. You think he would have been receptive to the opposite message? Or was convincing him it would benefit him the only way to even begin to make any TM inroads in the Philippines? My bet is that if you got MMY in a truthful moment he would say that Marcos not buying into our programs and next to no-one learning TM in the philippines at that time is the reason he got ousted. Could be (but according to Rick, quite a few people *did* learn). And Philippine democracy isn't in such great shape at the moment, but it certainly had a hopeful start. MMY is obviously not very sophisticated in his knowledge of political science and government. I doubt he was all that well informed about what was going on in the Philippines under Marcos; I *very* seriously doubt he supports the kind of oppression and corruption that was characteristic of Marcos's regime. What MMY did know was that with Marcos's support, he could introduce TM to the country. But what happened from there on was up to nature, not MMY. I'll bet he would agree with that. There *is* such a thing as doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 2:20 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. I was there. Many did start meditating. Some became teachers. Some are still teaching and are even on Purusha. Many wonderful people there. But we were locked in our hotel for a month as mobs protested our presence in the street below. Funnily, the Beatles had the same experience. Because of some perceived snub of Marcos, the Beatles barely left the Phillipines with their lives. There was a fatal fire or suspicious origin in one of our hotels. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that our activities resulted in Marcos' ejection. In fact, Maharishi did all he could to throw his support behind Marcos. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [giant mercy snip] My real point in all this is what it usually is--simply that, objectively speaking, the extreme negative view of MMY is no more certain than the extreme positive view. Correction: the views on MMY are either knowledgeable or ignorant, or in between In your case they are painfully retarded. Assignement: when the impulse to ratch up your incessant babbling and lash out against a critic overcomes you when reading this - do the opposite: suck it up and remain silent and see what happens. Before thinking about sharing this with the rest of the world, consider the adage: talk is silver, silence is gold To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 11:55 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? *** That MMY is trying to smooth-talk thugs into being benevolent rulers? Certainly MMY could not blast them and hope to make any progress in getting TM into their countries. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 11:58 AM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=49377 For the umpteenth time, MMY is not the author of this press release. Generally, MMY is willing to praise dictators in order to pave the way for the TMO to get into the good graces of the country's leaders, but it certainly does not mean that he likes cruel leaders, as he has made clear many times in denouncing the low level of life represented by the current crop of world leaders. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
On Apr 18, 2006, at 5:15 PM, peterklutz wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [giant mercy snip] My real point in all this is what it usually is--simply that, objectively speaking, the extreme negative view of MMY is no more certain than the extreme positive view. Correction: the views on MMY are either knowledgeable or ignorant, or in between In your case they are painfully retarded. Assignement: when the impulse to ratch up your incessant babbling and lash out against a critic overcomes you when reading this - do the opposite: suck it up and remain silent and see what happens. Before thinking about sharing this with the rest of the world, consider the adage: talk is silver, silence is gold This is worth framing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 2:20 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. I was there. Many did start meditating. Some became teachers. Some are still teaching and are even on Purusha. Many wonderful people there. But we were locked in our hotel for a month as mobs protested our presence in the street below. There was a fatal fire or suspicious origin in one of our hotels. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that our activities resulted in Marcos' ejection. In fact, Maharishi did all he could to throw his support behind Marcos. * Did you ever hear of the Trojan Horse? MMY butters up Marcos and gets some influence in the Philippines, and that contribution to the national consciousness (bitterly resisted, as you note, by the forces of darkness, who protested the TM presence) leads to a higher national consciousness in which the low level of life represented by Marcos is no longer welcome. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
on 4/18/06 4:43 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 11:58 AM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=49377 For the umpteenth time, MMY is not the author of this press release. Generally, MMY is willing to praise dictators in order to pave the way for the TMO to get into the good graces of the country's leaders, but it certainly does not mean that he likes cruel leaders, as he has made clear many times in denouncing the low level of life represented by the current crop of world leaders. He's behind it. It wouldn't have been written without his consent and approval. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [giant mercy snip] My real point in all this is what it usually is--simply that, objectively speaking, the extreme negative view of MMY is no more certain than the extreme positive view. Correction: the views on MMY are either knowledgeable or ignorant, or in between And that's a correction exactly how? Say, I thought you were bragging that you were going to killfile me. Damn. And here I was hoping I could get the last word without having to deal with your nitwittery. Are you intent on going Barry one better, or what? In your case they are painfully retarded. But unfortunately, you will not be able to say why you believe this. Assignement: when the impulse to ratch up your incessant babbling and lash out against a critic overcomes you when reading this - do the opposite: suck it up and remain silent and see what happens. Nah, that's OK, I'll just babble away, thanks. Before thinking about sharing this with the rest of the world, consider the adage: talk is silver, silence is gold Hey, that might be something for you to consider. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 11:55 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? And Cheney shook hands with Saddam AFTER he ordered the Kurds killed... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. Haven't seen any Lord Ramas around to provide enlightened leadership. Even in the guru business, the enlightened have had a tough time. And that's a limited leadership role. We've had Muktananda, Maharishi, Swami Rama, Adi Da etc. They've tended to crash and burn at some point as a group. Maybe term limits? Ya, that's the ticket... Granting your point above--and others along the same lines having to do with the unlikelihood of practical implementation --it seems to me the original point Bob was making has been overlooked, which was that when MMY advocates enlightened dictatorship, he may not have in mind anything even remotely resembling what we think of when we hear the word dictatorship. We tend to have something of a knee-jerk reaction to any phrase including the word dictatorship because the only examples we know about of such governance are so repellent. We seem therefore to be assuming that MMY's proposal can be nothing other than repellent and dump on him for even suggesting such a thing--when he may not be suggesting anything like what we imagine. Again, whether it makes any *practical* sense is really a different issue. I'm making a point about the quality of the *enlightened* organisations. Are their leaders even qualified to recommend government structures, based on their own failures in their own organisations ? JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: And don't forget Marcos. Seems to me that project worked just fine. People started meditating, started thinking more coherently as a result, and promptly ejected Marcos from power. Wow, not even the TMO has put out any fake superradiance research claiming this, have they? The TMO got run out of there after aligning themselves with Marcos (All Hail President Marcos! being the mantra MMY had the group chanting in some meetings) and trying to buy that university which got blocked after significant street protests by the people - clearly the non-meditating incoherent philipinos. As I recall, the marketing message being given to Marcos' people was that the TMO programs would increase social order and help put down the growing protests among the (pro-democracy rabble) people. My bet is that if you got MMY in a truthful moment he would say that Marcos not buying into our programs and next to no-one learning TM in the philippines at that time is the reason he got ousted. Does it matter? On its face, MMY was buttering up a dictator because he thought the dictator was going to support MMY's programs. This is no different than what the US government does all the time, with even *worse* people than Marcos. E.G., some of the Northern Alliance folk vs the Taliban (who were less extremist, overall than some of the NA folk), and Saddam Hussein vs Iran during the Iraq-Iran war. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Enlightened leadership - Term Limits? Was: Forcing people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/18/06 11:58 AM, Rick Archer at fairfieldlife@ wrote: But Maharishi praises Fidel Castro, Robert Mugabe, and their ilk, so what are we to think? http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=49377 For the umpteenth time, MMY is not the author of this press release. Generally, MMY is willing to praise dictators in order to pave the way for the TMO to get into the good graces of the country's leaders, but it certainly does not mean that he likes cruel leaders, as he has made clear many times in denouncing the low level of life represented by the current crop of world leaders. It feels likei t could be taken from something MMY has said. That doesn't invalidate what you said before, also noting that IF the benefits of mass TMing were to be realized in one of these countries at the level that MMY predicts/wants/wishes/hopes, than there might well be some kind of beneficial effect for the ruler whoinstituted these changes. On the other hand, the ruler might not be able to deal with the new atmosphere because Nature won't allow them to continue, at least as the ruler, so they move on, either metaphorically or physically, or both. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
