[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
If this had been written about, say, black people rather than women, everyone would instantly recognize it as being heavily tinged with racism. And just on its own terms, there is so much wrong with it that it's hard to know where to start. For one thing, while success may indeed be the best revenge, most feminists--including those Barry deems faux feminists--aren't out for revenge, they're out to change attitudes and behavior. Women who become heads of companies may well have an effect on the attitudes and behavior of the men who work for and with them, but there's plenty of room for, and need of, women who don't achieve that lofty status but speak out and work at the grassroots level to make folks aware of women's situation. For another related point, not all women are even interested in becoming heads of companies--any more than all men are (Barry himself is content with his solo freelance gigs). That doesn't mean the women who choose a career that doesn't involve rising to the top aren't genuinely concerned with improving the status of women generally. I would suggest that Barry isn't threatened by women who achieve success in the corporate world because he isn't competing with them; corporate success isn't his goal. The women he finds threatening are those on his own level who are smarter than he is. Those are the women he wants to shut up about women's rights. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters *the same way he treats the men he encounters*. The real feminists I knew didn't *expect* to be treated any differently than the men around them, and so they weren't. No one cut them breaks, and no one treated them any differently than they did the guys. Many of these women are now the heads of companies that still contain other women employees complaining that they're being discriminated against, women who had *exactly* the same chance to advance in those companies as my friends did. Complaining and bitching never changed anything. DOING something is what changes things. My friends took responsibility for their own careers, and their own safety, and it *worked* for them. They would be as turned off by the sari-wearing, walk-several-paces- behind-their-Raja-husbands women we see in the TMO as I am. I still remember the day when a female friend of mine in the TM movement stood up in a lecture when Maharishi asked for Good news, and informed him that she had just been granted her *second* Ph.D. Maharishi's response was, Very good. That will make you a better conversationalist for your husband. She left that lecture -- and the TMO -- immediately after hearing that. She now has three Ph.D.'s, a shitload of books and published articles under her belt, and -- still -- no husband. She never needed one. I never heard *her* bitch and whine about men and male chauvinism and misogyny, either, even though she had ample cause to do so. She put her efforts into more productive pursuits, namely, Success is the best revenge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters *the same way he treats the men he encounters*. The real feminists I knew didn't *expect* to be treated any differently than the men around them, and so they weren't. No one cut them breaks, and no one treated them any differently than they did the guys. Many of these women are now the heads of companies that still contain other women employees complaining that they're being discriminated against, women who had *exactly* the same chance to advance in those companies as my friends did. Complaining and bitching never changed anything. DOING something is what changes things. My friends took responsibility for their own careers, and their own safety, and it *worked* for them. They would be as turned off by the sari-wearing, walk-several-paces- behind-their-Raja-husbands women we see in the TMO as I am. I still remember the day when a female friend of mine in the TM movement stood up in a lecture when Maharishi asked for Good news, and informed him that she had just been granted her *second* Ph.D. Maharishi's response was, Very good. That will make you a better conversationalist for your husband. She left that lecture -- and the TMO -- immediately after hearing that. She now has three Ph.D.'s, a shitload of books and published articles under her belt, and -- still -- no husband. She never needed one. I never heard *her* bitch and whine about men and male chauvinism and misogyny, either, even though she had ample cause to do so. She put her efforts into more productive pursuits, namely, Success is the best revenge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters *the same way he treats the men he encounters*. The real feminists I knew didn't *expect* to be treated any differently than the men around them, and so they weren't. No one cut them breaks, and no one treated them any differently than they did the guys. Many of these women
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
What martial arts have you studied? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Please tell us who this lady was who left Marshy - I wanna read some of her books, please! Sorry, I honestly don't remember her name. It was over 35 years ago, after all, and I didn't stay in touch with people when I bailed from the TMO. She was a sociologist, as I remember. We worked together for a short time on some project and I remember her fondly, but her name escapes me entirely. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream Misogyny over the use of a word they don't like, or over some man treating the women he encounters *the same way he treats the men he encounters*. The real feminists I knew didn't *expect* to be treated any differently than the men around them, and so they weren't. No one cut them breaks, and no one treated them any differently than they did the guys. Many of these women are now the heads of companies that still contain other women employees complaining that they're being discriminated against, women who had *exactly* the same chance to advance in those companies as my friends did. Complaining and bitching never changed anything. DOING something is what changes things. My friends took responsibility for their own careers, and their own safety, and it *worked* for them. They would be as turned off by the sari-wearing, walk-several-paces- behind-their-Raja-husbands women we see in the TMO as I am. I still remember the day when a female friend of mine in the TM movement stood up in a lecture when Maharishi asked for Good news, and informed him that she had just been granted her *second* Ph.D. Maharishi's response was, Very good. That will make you a better conversationalist for your husband. She left that lecture -- and the TMO -- immediately after hearing that. She now has three Ph.D.'s, a shitload of books and published articles under her belt, and -- still -- no husband. She never needed one. I never heard *her* bitch and whine about men and male chauvinism and misogyny, either, even though she had ample cause to do so. She put her efforts into more productive pursuits, namely, Success is the best revenge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: What martial arts have you studied? Many, never to the black belt level, although I was a brown belt in karate and was once in a match against Chuck Norris the year he first became World Karate Champion, before he got into being a bad actor. He whupped my ass so badly I don't even want to discuss it. :-) But along the way, without really mastering any of them, I studied Judo, Karate, Aikido, Iado, and Kenjutso. I'll probably try to teach Maya a few Judo falls and throws to see if she's interested, and if so, then steer her to good kids' Judo or Aikido classes. I really *do* believe that learn- ing the martial arts improves balance and self- confidence. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
Well there you go FFL, now you know why Barry is Barry - he got a TBI from facing Chuck Norriss - thank you for tell me that - I was wondering somehow if you have studied aikido. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: What martial arts have you studied? Many, never to the black belt level, although I was a brown belt in karate and was once in a match against Chuck Norris the year he first became World Karate Champion, before he got into being a bad actor. He whupped my ass so badly I don't even want to discuss it. :-) But along the way, without really mastering any of them, I studied Judo, Karate, Aikido, Iado, and Kenjutso. I'll probably try to teach Maya a few Judo falls and throws to see if she's interested, and if so, then steer her to good kids' Judo or Aikido classes. I really *do* believe that learn- ing the martial arts improves balance and self- confidence. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
Many, never to the black belt level, although I was a brown belt in karate and was once in a match against Chuck Norris the year he first became World Karate Champion, before he got into being a bad actor. He whupped my ass so badly I don't even want to discuss it. :-) Dude, you rock when you say shit like this. Thanks for being real. before he got into being a bad actor... - Nailed it!:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: What martial arts have you studied? Many, never to the black belt level, although I was a brown belt in karate and was once in a match against Chuck Norris the year he first became World Karate Champion, before he got into being a bad actor. He whupped my ass so badly I don't even want to discuss it. :-) But along the way, without really mastering any of them, I studied Judo, Karate, Aikido, Iado, and Kenjutso. I'll probably try to teach Maya a few Judo falls and throws to see if she's interested, and if so, then steer her to good kids' Judo or Aikido classes. I really *do* believe that learn- ing the martial arts improves balance and self- confidence. From: turquoiseb To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably
[FairfieldLife] Re: Faux feminists are part of the problem, not part of the solution
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote: Barry, I think you have mentioned this before - about how Rama really encouraged women to become independent and strong. This good. And things are changing so for young girls these days at least in the West. But the fact remains that many men are indoctrinated by their culture to treat women poorly, to keep them in lower wage positions, to ignore their needs, and to pay them less for similar work. It is great that some women refuse to accept all this, but it takes lots of effort to do this, to go against the cultural norms (many of which are really subtle and go unnoticed). Women often have to work harder, put more time and energy in, and get pushy just to get equal rights in any area of life. It is tiring and not possible for some people especially if they are raising children and must put their energies there, too. I agree with everything you have said. It is not easy, and not for some types of people in particular, introverts and such. Also, some women, like men, are not all that talented, they just want fair treatment for what they do at work and in life, too. they wob't be president of a company, ever, nor should they have to push for that just to be treated fairly. I hope my point was that these women I knew were treated fairly because they refused to entertain the idea of *not* being treated fairly. Rather than dwell on the obvious -- that misogyny and discrim- ination exist -- they focused on what they could personally do to not be affected by it. True, that is not everyone's path in life, but I confess to being more impressed by those who just get all Nike on misogyny's ass and Just Do It, rather than talking about it. *Admittedly*, somebody's got to talk about it, to get it before the eyes of a dumb public so they'll become more aware of the problems. But you'll have to excuse me if I believe that a few good *examples* of women bucking the system and succeeding *anyway* possibly does more to resolve the problems than bitching about the system. So great for your women friends, and I agree success is the best remedy for the women and for society. But let's recognize that it would help and is not being whiny or demanding on the part of women if they want society and men to behave differently. It should not be a burden only on women to succeed in spite of the unfairness around them. Society should help out, too. Agreed. And I hope that it does so. At the same time, I cannot help but applaud my friends who found a way to step out from under that burden and succeed anyway, long before society got clueful enough to help them out. I'm in the peculiar position of helping to raise a four-year-old girl in this world. The other people in my extended family are in charge of teaching her genteel manners and other things, but we've all pretty much agreed that I'm going to be the one to teach her martial arts. Starting early. If I do a good enough job, she will never have to use them to defend herself in her entire life. But they'll teach her balance, in many ways. And knowing that she *could* defend herself will IMO add greatly to her self confidence and her ability to find her own way in life, safely and successfully. Sounds wonderful to be raising her and sharing the joys and responsibilities - no one feels too burdened that way. She is a lucky girl, and how great o learn martial arts at a young age - it will just become a part of her. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: As you can probably tell, I have fairly strong views on the problem of rape and the subjugation of women. This 'tude was largely created as a result of being good friends with a number of very strong women in the Rama trip. Rama -- whatever his failings in many areas -- was a strong proponent of women's rights. He had all of his students -- male and female -- study martial arts, and work on their careers, such that they didn't have to be the victims of anyone, whether it be an employer or a criminal. As a result, many of the women I studied with -- and often worked with and went to dojos with as well -- turned into what I'd call real feminists. They didn't whine. They didn't *blame* men. Instead they became more successful than the men, made more money than the men, and kicked more ass than the men. One of my good friends from this period worked with me down on Wall Street, and one night as she left work late, four guys decided to try to rape her. As Ahnold said so well in Predator, Bahd idea. She was a third-degree karate black belt, and sent them first to the hospital, and then to jail. Compare and contrast to women who fly off the handle and scream
