[FairfieldLife] Re: Nice example of utter BS in Youtube?

[he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

 Yep, and his explanations are folk etymology nothing short of at its worst!

[FairfieldLife] Re: Nice example of utter BS in Youtube?

[srijau]

yes you are right it is laughable. Was just watching an archeology program on 
TV where they are starting to acknowledge a million years of human habitation 
in Britain. So why should I care about someones one thousand year old God 
concept. It is just a tiny blip in time.  his claim of Islam being more recent 
than the Mahabharata is ridiculous.

[FairfieldLife] Re: For Example:

[anon_alias]

"She [Clinton] went toe-to-toe with Russia and lodged protests when they went 
into Georgia." — Kaine
 

 This is an odd, inaccurate comment. The Russia-Georgia war took place in 2008, 
when Clinton was still a U.S. senator. Bush’s secretary of state, Condoleezza 
Rice, lodged the protests...
 

 Fact-checking the vice-presidential debate between Kaine and Pence 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/05/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-kaine-and-pence/?tid=a_inl
 
 
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/05/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-kaine-and-pence/?tid=a_inl
 
 
 Fact-checking the vice-presidential debate betwee... 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/05/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-kaine-and-pence/?tid=a_inl
 Here's our roundup of 25 suspect facts uttered during the debate between Sen. 
Tim Kaine and Gov. Mike Pence
 
 
 
 View on www.washingtonpos... 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/10/05/fact-checking-the-vice-presidential-debate-between-kaine-and-pence/?tid=a_inl
 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
   ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


 Pence couldn't begin to defend the indefensible...
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pence-kaine-debate-vice-president_us_57f3b692e4b0d0e1a9a9a98b
 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pence-kaine-debate-vice-president_us_57f3b692e4b0d0e1a9a9a98b



  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Another example of why Neo-Advaita is B.S.

[Richard J. Williams]

emptybill:
 Enlightenment is freedom from dependence on desired 
 and feared objects...

Shankara Advaita is for the most part a Vedic purist 
reaction to the teaching of Nagarjuna and his four-part
negation. You seem to be quite slow on the uptake, 
EMPTY! LoL! 

Yeah, I think that's Asanga that I quoted. And, that's 
what I've been saying for about ten years. Judy and Vaj 
were the respondent who understand the TMer parallels 
to the Vijnanavada. Go figure.

The real is non-dual. It's neither existence nor 
non-existence, neither affirmation nor negation, neither 
identity nor difference, neither one nor many, neither 
pure nor impure, neither production nor destruction. 
- Arya Asanga, 'Mahaayaana Sutralamkaara' 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/308218

and 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/308188

Subject: gauDapAdIya kArikAs
Author: willytex
Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 10:08:04 -0600
Local: Sun, Dec 8 2002 11:08 am
http://tinyurl.com/c962jvb

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: fun example of distributed computing

[Bhairitu]

On 07/19/2012 05:43 PM, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:
 http://constantin.glez.de/mandelbrot

 This is written in the lingua franca of the Internet, Javascript. It 
 apparently divides the processing time between several computers around the 
 world, so that it goes much faster than the same program would run if you 
 ran it on your own computer.

 Very cool.

 L.

 I thought the lingua franca of the web was HTML. This page you mentioned 
 displays as follows if javascript is disabled, as it sometimes must be when 
 disabled people use the web. Currently only 1% to 2% of users seems to have 
 javascript disabled; the percentage used to be much higher. If you want 
 everyone who accesses the Internet to be able read what is on a page, there 
 must be alternatives to whatever content is rendered with javascript. For 
 example, Flash does not work without javascript - no video. Some people have 
 to listen to the Internet, for example if they are blind; alternately they 
 can use an active Braille terminal, but much of the material rendered by 
 javascript is not accessible to these users. However text rendered within 
 HTML without scripting is always accessible.

 --
 Here's an experimental Mandelbrot Set web service. The picture you see below 
 is created by a node.js script running in the most excellent Joyent Cloud.

 Check out the Mandelbrot web service in Node blog post here.

 Sorry, this page needs JavaScript enabled in order to work correctly, but 
 JavaScript is not available or disabled on your browser.

 Click on any point in the image to set a new center, or play with the buttons 
 below.

 Over time, this page will get some cool new features, so check back often.
 -
 Enjoy!

Yup, JavaScript has become a defacto standard and indeed a lot of pages 
won't load without it.  I recently downloaded a free trial of a web 
authoring software and put together a simple test web site to see what 
it did.  It general A LOT of JavaScript.  And that I didn't like.

I try to author sites without JavaScript to the extent of using drop 
down menus that only use CSS.  I also like to use PHP, which is server 
side because it is easier to upgrade sections of pages that way.  Just 
edit the file not the whole page.  And of course there are all kinds of 
cool tricks one can do with PHP.

I was amused a while back at looking at Android job reqs.  Many 
mentioned things like REST.  Though I wasn't familiar with the term I 
found out looking it up it wasn't anything that complicated other than a 
method to look up a specific page.  IOW, if the page is updated (it 
could even have it's own index file) it doesn't matter because the link 
remains the same which is usually a number.  Good example are the 
IMDB.com pages we often upload here.  There are a lot of these very 
important looking things in job reqs that can probably be learned in a 
day or two by any seasoned programmer.

Problem is that many programming or engineering directors who are 
usually too young to understand THINK they are very important. They'll 
be more likely to hire someone who has already worked with this even 
though they have a tiny fraction of the experience that a seasoned 
programmer has.

[FairfieldLife] Re: fun example of distributed computing

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote:

 http://constantin.glez.de/mandelbrot
 
 This is written in the lingua franca of the Internet, Javascript. It 
 apparently divides the processing time between several computers around the 
 world, so that it goes much faster than the same program would run if you ran 
 it on your own computer.
 
 Very cool.
 
 L.

I thought the lingua franca of the web was HTML. This page you mentioned 
displays as follows if javascript is disabled, as it sometimes must be when 
disabled people use the web. Currently only 1% to 2% of users seems to have 
javascript disabled; the percentage used to be much higher. If you want 
everyone who accesses the Internet to be able read what is on a page, there 
must be alternatives to whatever content is rendered with javascript. For 
example, Flash does not work without javascript - no video. Some people have to 
listen to the Internet, for example if they are blind; alternately they can use 
an active Braille terminal, but much of the material rendered by javascript is 
not accessible to these users. However text rendered within HTML without 
scripting is always accessible.

--
Here's an experimental Mandelbrot Set web service. The picture you see below is 
created by a node.js script running in the most excellent Joyent Cloud.

Check out the Mandelbrot web service in Node blog post here.

Sorry, this page needs JavaScript enabled in order to work correctly, but 
JavaScript is not available or disabled on your browser.

Click on any point in the image to set a new center, or play with the buttons 
below.

Over time, this page will get some cool new features, so check back often.
-
Enjoy!

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:

  
  While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy going
  on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I had
  noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
  significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau. Like I
  was walking in place.
  

Something good was happening? Perhaps all kinds of flashy stuff
means the guNa_s are trying to lure one back into overrating the relative? A 
prime(?) example of the klesha called abhinivesha[1], which seems to be the 
worst of those five klesha_s:

avidyaasmitaaraagadveSaabhiniveshaaH kleSaaH.

puruSaartha-shuunyaanaaM guNaanaaM pratiprasavaH kaivalyam...


1. ^ The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy

The Klesha Abhinivesha, (literally abhi - to move toward, ni - near, vesha - 
life: To move toward liking life too much) or the fear of death is the greatest 
fear in existence and is the root of all other fears. It is said that even the 
most accomplished yoga practitioners can fall back into this state of fear. 

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of turquoiseb
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:36 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

My friend's response to Barry's comments:

 

How could one possibly describe that or know that? In my case I have
definitely become more even,more patient, more tender and loving towards all
things. Those things seem to come naturally with this experience over time.
So, relationships, especially marriage, have improved from my perspective,
at least. But I have not run out and joined Greenpeace or the Sierra Club. I
am not an activist, in that regard, never have been. People, I think, pretty
much remain who they are, keep their usual proclivities. Or, if they change
in any way, it is a very gradual unnoticeable thing. A kind of softening
takes place. But I have heard others say if anything they have become more
outrageous. So who knows?

As the Gita tells us, there are no outward manifestations of this. 

It seems to me the person making this comment may be missing the point here.
It is entirely likely to me that one does more good in the world by virtue
of who they are than what they do. I can't prove that, but that's what I've
always believed.

I would love to hear in what ways this person's experience has changed them
in the direction of doing good in the world. Maybe they could provide some
examples of what they mean.

 

Barry had said:

I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap, and I 
commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have some
writerly quibbles about some of the language, like
CC arrived and had come, because my similar exper-
iences, although more fleeting, had no sense whatsoever
of there being anything new, anything that had arrived
or come. It was more like finally noticing what had 
always already been present, every minute of my life.

What I'd be interested in, if this person ever feels
like writing it up, is whether he/she can pinpoint any
ways in which this subjective realization has been of
benefit to anyone else. That's the missing component
of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I
run across. It's almost as if the process of self
realization can be described more accurately as 
selfish realization in most of them. All that seems
to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
to hear more about that.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I 
  exited the Dome
  one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
  Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program 
  since 1978.
  
  How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is 
  it was clear that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me 
  as I exited the Dome. It was clear that soft transcendence, that 
  feeling of unboundedness I had become accustomed to in meditation 
  all those years ... was now with me in activity. Everything was 
  different C yet the same. This new element was with me as if 
  dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new purity,
  this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity. ...

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

  On Behalf Of turquoiseb
  
  My friend's response to Barry's comments:
 
 How could one possibly describe that or know that? In my case 
 I have definitely become more even,more patient, more tender 
 and loving towards all things. Those things seem to come 
 naturally with this experience over time.
 So, relationships, especially marriage, have improved from my 
 perspective, at least. But I have not run out and joined 
 Greenpeace or the Sierra Club. I am not an activist, in that 
 regard, never have been. People, I think, pretty much remain 
 who they are, keep their usual proclivities. Or, if they change
 in any way, it is a very gradual unnoticeable thing. A kind of 
 softening takes place. But I have heard others say if anything 
 they have become more outrageous. So who knows?
 
 As the Gita tells us, there are no outward manifestations of this. 
 
 It seems to me the person making this comment may be missing the 
 point here. It is entirely likely to me that one does more good 
 in the world by virtue of who they are than what they do. I can't 
 prove that, but that's what I've always believed.
 
 I would love to hear in what ways this person's experience has 
 changed them in the direction of doing good in the world. Maybe 
 they could provide some examples of what they mean.

My thanks to Rick's friend for his comments. 

My point was not to take on his experience per se, but
the general language of self discovery, which I cannot
help but notice sounds a lot like selfish discovery.

The supposed benefits of realizing enlightenment are almost
always presented in terms of I and me. The person who
is claiming enlightenment is saying things about how much
their subjective lives may have changed after this transition.
I'm just looking for someone to put things in terms that might
hint at a bit of care for others.

There are certainly attempts at this in some dogmas, which
tend to rely heavily on Woo Woo. The enlightened being is
supposed to be a benefit to society just by being. People
benefit from his/her vibes just by being around them. These
types of raps even go as far as to claim that violence and
other low mindstates aren't even *possible* in the vicinity
of an enlightened being. I'm thinking that Tat Wala Baba
wasn't notified of this before someone killed him. :-)

I really wasn't looking to put Rick's friend on the spot,
merely looking to make a point about the essentially selfish
nature of much of the language surrounding enlightenment. 
It's almost *always* about What it did for me (the person
claiming enlightenment). It's almost *never* about anyone
else. Doesn't that strike anyone else as a tad unbalanced?

As for the person's last comment, I do not and have never
claimed enlightenment. I've had some periods of being in
states of mind that I think match Maharishi's CC to a T,
but they only lasted weeks at a time and to be honest, 
they weren't interesting enough for me to make a goal
of reattaining them. They were what they were, and now is
what it is. All are on an equal footing in my opinion.

So the question of what my personal experience of doing
for others might be is kinda moot. I didn't experience 
it changing one iota while these experiences were going
on, and I'm not convinced that the subjective experience
of enlightenment causes a change in anyone else, either.

My point was about the essentially Enlightenment is 
important because it's important to *me* nature of 
much of the language of spirituality. That's all.

My 50+ year experience in spiritual movements leads me
to believe that most people don't ever even *notice*
this self-centered focus. I noticed. I'm more drawn
these days to groups that don't really give much of 
a shit about their personal enlightenment, and put
the majority of their focus on trying to help others
on a moment-to-moment basis.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Bhairitu]

On 05/02/2011 02:37 PM, Vaj wrote:
 On May 2, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 Logically CC should not be a binary experience.  IOW, a switch goes on
 and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For instance someone noticing,
 as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of
 meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along
 in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there.
 And more particularly over time should grow.  So some of these things
 are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say
 they popped into CC.  They were already there.

 TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but
 I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there
 and it was not that uncommon.
 Indians are an often superstitious people, so maybe they would believe that. 
 However yogis describe it as an extremely rare stage.

Most of those opinions came from yogis.  It may be considered rare 
because you have to be doing sadhana.  But IMHO it is a mechanical state 
induced by training the nervous system to adapt to the state.  I don't 
think there is anything supernatural about it.  After a while the 
rewiring is complete and at that state continued sadhana would not be 
needed as even living moment becomes sadhana.  The religious aspect of 
this philosophy is the idea that only special people achieve it.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of turquoiseb
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 11:07 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

My friend said, Well, we all have our own points of view. If doing for
others is what this person wants, sounds like a good plan to me.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

  On Behalf Of turquoiseb
  
  My friend's response to Barry's comments:
 
 How could one possibly describe that or know that? In my case 
 I have definitely become more even,more patient, more tender 
 and loving towards all things. Those things seem to come 
 naturally with this experience over time.
 So, relationships, especially marriage, have improved from my 
 perspective, at least. But I have not run out and joined 
 Greenpeace or the Sierra Club. I am not an activist, in that 
 regard, never have been. People, I think, pretty much remain 
 who they are, keep their usual proclivities. Or, if they change
 in any way, it is a very gradual unnoticeable thing. A kind of 
 softening takes place. But I have heard others say if anything 
 they have become more outrageous. So who knows?
 
 As the Gita tells us, there are no outward manifestations of this. 
 
 It seems to me the person making this comment may be missing the 
 point here. It is entirely likely to me that one does more good 
 in the world by virtue of who they are than what they do. I can't 
 prove that, but that's what I've always believed.
 
 I would love to hear in what ways this person's experience has 
 changed them in the direction of doing good in the world. Maybe 
 they could provide some examples of what they mean.

My thanks to Rick's friend for his comments. 

My point was not to take on his experience per se, but
the general language of self discovery, which I cannot
help but notice sounds a lot like selfish discovery.

The supposed benefits of realizing enlightenment are almost
always presented in terms of I and me. The person who
is claiming enlightenment is saying things about how much
their subjective lives may have changed after this transition.
I'm just looking for someone to put things in terms that might
hint at a bit of care for others.

There are certainly attempts at this in some dogmas, which
tend to rely heavily on Woo Woo. The enlightened being is
supposed to be a benefit to society just by being. People
benefit from his/her vibes just by being around them. These
types of raps even go as far as to claim that violence and
other low mindstates aren't even *possible* in the vicinity
of an enlightened being. I'm thinking that Tat Wala Baba
wasn't notified of this before someone killed him. :-)

I really wasn't looking to put Rick's friend on the spot,
merely looking to make a point about the essentially selfish
nature of much of the language surrounding enlightenment. 
It's almost *always* about What it did for me (the person
claiming enlightenment). It's almost *never* about anyone
else. Doesn't that strike anyone else as a tad unbalanced?

As for the person's last comment, I do not and have never
claimed enlightenment. I've had some periods of being in
states of mind that I think match Maharishi's CC to a T,
but they only lasted weeks at a time and to be honest, 
they weren't interesting enough for me to make a goal
of reattaining them. They were what they were, and now is
what it is. All are on an equal footing in my opinion.

So the question of what my personal experience of doing
for others might be is kinda moot. I didn't experience 
it changing one iota while these experiences were going
on, and I'm not convinced that the subjective experience
of enlightenment causes a change in anyone else, either.

My point was about the essentially Enlightenment is 
important because it's important to *me* nature of 
much of the language of spirituality. That's all.

My 50+ year experience in spiritual movements leads me
to believe that most people don't ever even *notice*
this self-centered focus. I noticed. I'm more drawn
these days to groups that don't really give much of 
a shit about their personal enlightenment, and put
the majority of their focus on trying to help others
on a moment-to-moment basis.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Agreed - it is mechanical. Enlightenment is for the masses, and becoming much 
less rare. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:

 On 05/02/2011 02:37 PM, Vaj wrote:
  On May 2, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
 
  Logically CC should not be a binary experience.  IOW, a switch goes on
  and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For instance someone noticing,
  as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of
  meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along
  in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there.
  And more particularly over time should grow.  So some of these things
  are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say
  they popped into CC.  They were already there.
 
  TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but
  I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there
  and it was not that uncommon.
  Indians are an often superstitious people, so maybe they would believe 
  that. However yogis describe it as an extremely rare stage.
 
 Most of those opinions came from yogis.  It may be considered rare 
 because you have to be doing sadhana.  But IMHO it is a mechanical state 
 induced by training the nervous system to adapt to the state.  I don't 
 think there is anything supernatural about it.  After a while the 
 rewiring is complete and at that state continued sadhana would not be 
 needed as even living moment becomes sadhana.  The religious aspect of 
 this philosophy is the idea that only special people achieve it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[wayback71]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of turquoiseb
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 11:07 AM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
 
  
 
 My friend said, Well, we all have our own points of view. If doing for
 others is what this person wants, sounds like a good plan to me.

I think it sounds as if Rick's friend has done a lot for others as just part of 
his daily life - it is an assumed thing.  He mentioned he had worked hard to 
earn a living and support his family.  That is an ongoing, daily, years-long, 
huge thing.  I am sure some Enlightened people like to do volunteer work. 
Others might not like that or have enough to do in family life.

As far as the language used being so focused on personal experiences, that is 
true - but if the transformation is about consciousness and the loss of the 
ego, that would pretty much guarantee the talk about the very foundation of how 
one experiences self and life and thoughts and action.  And it is possible that 
there is no outward change, it is all internal.  And still pretty amazing just 
for the awakened person.  That's a lot.

Having heard Adyashanti once for 2 hours, I would bet that he would honestly 
respond to your concerns, Barry.

   
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
   On Behalf Of turquoiseb
   
   My friend's response to Barry's comments:
  
  How could one possibly describe that or know that? In my case 
  I have definitely become more even,more patient, more tender 
  and loving towards all things. Those things seem to come 
  naturally with this experience over time.
  So, relationships, especially marriage, have improved from my 
  perspective, at least. But I have not run out and joined 
  Greenpeace or the Sierra Club. I am not an activist, in that 
  regard, never have been. People, I think, pretty much remain 
  who they are, keep their usual proclivities. Or, if they change
  in any way, it is a very gradual unnoticeable thing. A kind of 
  softening takes place. But I have heard others say if anything 
  they have become more outrageous. So who knows?
  
  As the Gita tells us, there are no outward manifestations of this. 
  
  It seems to me the person making this comment may be missing the 
  point here. It is entirely likely to me that one does more good 
  in the world by virtue of who they are than what they do. I can't 
  prove that, but that's what I've always believed.
  
  I would love to hear in what ways this person's experience has 
  changed them in the direction of doing good in the world. Maybe 
  they could provide some examples of what they mean.
 
 My thanks to Rick's friend for his comments. 
 
 My point was not to take on his experience per se, but
 the general language of self discovery, which I cannot
 help but notice sounds a lot like selfish discovery.
 
 The supposed benefits of realizing enlightenment are almost
 always presented in terms of I and me. The person who
 is claiming enlightenment is saying things about how much
 their subjective lives may have changed after this transition.
 I'm just looking for someone to put things in terms that might
 hint at a bit of care for others.
 
 There are certainly attempts at this in some dogmas, which
 tend to rely heavily on Woo Woo. The enlightened being is
 supposed to be a benefit to society just by being. People
 benefit from his/her vibes just by being around them. These
 types of raps even go as far as to claim that violence and
 other low mindstates aren't even *possible* in the vicinity
 of an enlightened being. I'm thinking that Tat Wala Baba
 wasn't notified of this before someone killed him. :-)
 
 I really wasn't looking to put Rick's friend on the spot,
 merely looking to make a point about the essentially selfish
 nature of much of the language surrounding enlightenment. 
 It's almost *always* about What it did for me (the person
 claiming enlightenment). It's almost *never* about anyone
 else. Doesn't that strike anyone else as a tad unbalanced?
 
 As for the person's last comment, I do not and have never
 claimed enlightenment. I've had some periods of being in
 states of mind that I think match Maharishi's CC to a T,
 but they only lasted weeks at a time and to be honest, 
 they weren't interesting enough for me to make a goal
 of reattaining them. They were what they were, and now is
 what it is. All are on an equal footing in my opinion.
 
 So the question of what my personal experience of doing
 for others might be is kinda moot. I didn't experience 
 it changing one iota while these experiences were going
 on, and I'm not convinced that the subjective experience
 of enlightenment causes a change in anyone else, either.
 
 My point was about the essentially Enlightenment is 
 important because it's

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of wayback71
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:14 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ]
 On Behalf Of turquoiseb
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 11:07 AM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
 
 
 
 My friend said, Well, we all have our own points of view. If doing for
 others is what this person wants, sounds like a good plan to me.

I think it sounds as if Rick's friend has done a lot for others as just part
of his daily life - it is an assumed thing. He mentioned he had worked hard
to earn a living and support his family. That is an ongoing, daily,
years-long, huge thing. I am sure some Enlightened people like to do
volunteer work. Others might not like that or have enough to do in family
life.

As far as the language used being so focused on personal experiences, that
is true - but if the transformation is about consciousness and the loss of
the ego, that would pretty much guarantee the talk about the very foundation
of how one experiences self and life and thoughts and action. And it is
possible that there is no outward change, it is all internal. And still
pretty amazing just for the awakened person. That's a lot.

Having heard Adyashanti once for 2 hours, I would bet that he would honestly
respond to your concerns, Barry.

 

I'm all for doing seva - selfless service. I think it helps the helpee more
than the helped, but that shouldn't be the motivation, or else it wouldn't
be selfless. And we absolutely need people out there helping tornado and
earthquake victims, providing food and medicine where needed, etc. But
ultimately, what do all those things do for people? They make them more
happy. So does enlightenment. So someone such as Adya, devoting his life to
enlightening others, is providing happiness by playing a role relevant to
his talents and to the needs of those attracted to him, most of whom
probably have their food and shelter needs covered. A doctor who joins
Doctors Without Borders is doing the same, in tune with his own skills, for
people in less fortunate circumstances. Both are valuable services. No one
can do everything. As my friend's comment implies, we do what we can,
relative to our talents and motivations. As for my friend, I find him
uplifting to be around, and I suppose others do too. So he's making a
contribution just by living his life. 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Relative to being selfless, what I have heard from many of those who are 
realized is about the huge reduction of thoughts in the mind during daily life, 
post-awakening. 

The mind is not stuck in drive any longer, relentlessly shoving forward the 
concept of a self. This simple change allows someone realized to meet each 
moment with more freshness, innocence and clarity. The term restful alertness 
comes out of the closet. More attention is available to devote to anything we 
want to do, including interacting with others. 

I agree with the mystery poster too that personality remains pretty much the 
same, pre- and post-awakening, with a softer yet more effective demeanor over 
time.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of wayback71
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:14 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
 
  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com ]
  On Behalf Of turquoiseb
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 11:07 AM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
 
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
  
  
  
  My friend said, Well, we all have our own points of view. If doing for
  others is what this person wants, sounds like a good plan to me.
 
 I think it sounds as if Rick's friend has done a lot for others as just part
 of his daily life - it is an assumed thing. He mentioned he had worked hard
 to earn a living and support his family. That is an ongoing, daily,
 years-long, huge thing. I am sure some Enlightened people like to do
 volunteer work. Others might not like that or have enough to do in family
 life.
 
 As far as the language used being so focused on personal experiences, that
 is true - but if the transformation is about consciousness and the loss of
 the ego, that would pretty much guarantee the talk about the very foundation
 of how one experiences self and life and thoughts and action. And it is
 possible that there is no outward change, it is all internal. And still
 pretty amazing just for the awakened person. That's a lot.
 
 Having heard Adyashanti once for 2 hours, I would bet that he would honestly
 respond to your concerns, Barry.
 
  
 
 I'm all for doing seva - selfless service. I think it helps the helpee more
 than the helped, but that shouldn't be the motivation, or else it wouldn't
 be selfless. And we absolutely need people out there helping tornado and
 earthquake victims, providing food and medicine where needed, etc. But
 ultimately, what do all those things do for people? They make them more
 happy. So does enlightenment. So someone such as Adya, devoting his life to
 enlightening others, is providing happiness by playing a role relevant to
 his talents and to the needs of those attracted to him, most of whom
 probably have their food and shelter needs covered. A doctor who joins
 Doctors Without Borders is doing the same, in tune with his own skills, for
 people in less fortunate circumstances. Both are valuable services. No one
 can do everything. As my friend's comment implies, we do what we can,
 relative to our talents and motivations. As for my friend, I find him
 uplifting to be around, and I suppose others do too. So he's making a
 contribution just by living his life.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote:

 Thanks for posting this. This is beautiful especially the parts - I
 know this is no accomplishment of mine and  If my life serves no other
 purpose, it is to demonstrate that, if this can happen to someone like
 me, it can happen to anyone - these definitely resonate with how I
 felt.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the
 Dome
  one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
  Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since
 1978.
 

adhunaa citi-shaktis tasya svaruupe pratitiSThati? :D

(YS IV 34:

puruSaartha-shuunyaanaaM guNaanaaM pratiprasavaH
kaivalyam *svaruupa-pratiSThaa vaa citishakter* iti.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote:

 Rick
 This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts. Thank you.


Agreed. An posted by none other than one of the foremost TMO-bashers of the 
century. Something good must be happening :-)

In addition to what you write I was struck by the simplicity in describing his 
state of consciousness. Very beautiful.


 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the Dome
  one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
  Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since 1978.
  
   
  
  How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is it was clear
  that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me as I exited the Dome. It
  was clear that soft transcendence, that feeling of unboundedness I had
  become accustomed to in meditation all those years ... was now with me in
  activity. Everything was different © yet the same. This new element was with
  me as if dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new purity,
  this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity.
  
   
  
  As with most of us, I had a career to manage during all those years, and a
  family, with children, to support. But I made time for my program twice a
  day no matter what, even if it meant, as it often did, meditating in a bus,
  an airplane, a library or even more unlikely locations.
  
   
  
  It never occurred to me to stop meditating, or even miss a meditation. I
  knew before my intro lecture was half over, that I would do this TM thing,
  and would never stop.
  
   
  
  Over the years, I waited expectantly and patiently for cosmic
  consciousness to arrive. Always feeling it must be just around the corner.
  
   
  
  As decades of practice elapsed and I grew older, I began to abandon any
  notion that I would reach cosmic consciousness in this life. I never stopped
  believing it was a reality, nor that Maharishi's TM and TM-Sidhi program
  could lead one there. I just stopped believing that it was going to happen
  to me.
  
   
  
  While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy going
  on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I had
  noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
  significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau. Like I
  was walking in place.
  
   
  
  My general attitude was, OK, it's not going to happen in this life. But I
  know TM is a good thing. I've always known that, from my very first
  meditation. So, I'll just keep doing it because I should go as far as I can
  in this life. Who knows © maybe next time around ...
  
   
  
  So, when cosmic consciousness tiptoed up to me that November day, just after
  I turned 64, I was absolutely astounded and delighted. It seemed so
  delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not expect it to last. As days and
  weeks went by, the experience not only endured but grew in strength. I
  finally came to accept without any doubt -- it was here to stay.  With that,
  I began to relax into it and just let it be what it was...without any
  expectations or preconceived notions.
  
   
  
  I was as surprised as anyone that such a thing could happen to me. As far as
  I or anyone could tell from my life, I was as unlikely and undeserving a
  candidate for this as anyone I could think of. Even after years of
  meditating I still had flaws you could drive a truck through. I was nowhere
  near as well studied in the Vedic literature as so many around me. One might
  call my daily routine marginally ayurvedic, I suppose. But even that would
  be a stretch. Given all my responsibilities, I figured I was doing the best
  I could.
  
   
  
  Yet here IT was and IT was undeniable. I thought perhaps it was one of those
  1% chances of a cosmic mistake I heard Maharishi talk about once. And for
  quite a while was sure that as soon as the mistake was discovered by the
  Cosmic computer, it would be rectified.
  
   
  
  Two and half years later, to my increasing delight, the experience of cosmic
  consciousness has matured into something even grander. Being shines at me
  from all things and all people. My own Self is everywhere, in everything and
  everyone. The burdens, troubles and vicissitudes of life seem all but gone
  or, at least, drastically mitigated. In their place, is a lightness,
  delight, sweetness and ease ... that is absolutely indescribable.
  
   
  
  Believe me, I know this is no accomplishment of mine. Any kudos for this are
  due to Maharishi and Guru Dev alone. This is not false modesty. This is the
  truth.
  
   
  
  The only thing I ever did was to follow the simple (thank goodness)
  instructions Maharishi gave for the practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi program.
  Really, that's all I ever did. That it resulted in this experience for me

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 wayback71@... wrote:

 Rick
 This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts. 
 Thank you.

I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap, and I 
commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have some
writerly quibbles about some of the language, like
CC arrived and had come, because my similar exper-
iences, although more fleeting, had no sense whatsoever
of there being anything new, anything that had arrived
or come. It was more like finally noticing what had 
always already been present, every minute of my life.

What I'd be interested in, if this person ever feels
like writing it up, is whether he/she can pinpoint any
ways in which this subjective realization has been of
benefit to anyone else. That's the missing component
of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I
run across. It's almost as if the process of self
realization can be described more accurately as 
selfish realization in most of them. All that seems
to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
to hear more about that.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote:
 
  Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I 
  exited the Dome
  one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
  Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program 
  since 1978.
  
  How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is 
  it was clear that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me 
  as I exited the Dome. It was clear that soft transcendence, that 
  feeling of unboundedness I had become accustomed to in meditation 
  all those years ... was now with me in activity. Everything was 
  different © yet the same. This new element was with me as if 
  dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new purity,
  this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity. ...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Vaj]

On May 2, 2011, at 3:36 AM, turquoiseb wrote:


That's the missing component
of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I
run across. It's almost as if the process of self
realization can be described more accurately as
selfish realization in most of them.



It seemed typical of TMer realizations, selfish yes and parsed in the  
Same Old Language. Nothing new that I can see, and as always, tightly  
within TM Org CC indoctrination dogmas. Funny how it never strays  
outsides those bounds.


Experience junkies usually get better at being hyper-vigilant and  
parsing their inner states as time goes on and eventually that hyper- 
vigilance becomes normal. But they never seem to transcend the need  
for experiences (and endless discussion of them)--one of the  
hallmarks of real awakening, vs. NC (Narcissistic Consciousness).

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote
[regarding Rick Archer's post]:

I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap, and I commend whoever
wrote it for that. I might have some writerly quibbles about some of the
language, like CC arrived and had come, because my similar
experiences, although more fleeting, had no sense whatsoever of there
being anything new, anything that had arrived or come. It was more
like finally noticing what had always already been present, every minute
of my life.

What I'd be interested in, if this person ever feels like writing it up,
is whether he/she can pinpoint any ways in which this subjective
realization has been of benefit to anyone else. That's the missing
component of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I run
across. It's almost as if the process of self realization can be
described more accurately as selfish realization in most of them. All
that seems to matter is the person's subjective sense of their own
subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of ways in which this
subjective state proves itself of value to anyone else in the objective
world. I'd like to hear more about that.

Enlightenment, or any kind of realization for that matter, is simply
recognizing what is the case. How this experience develops varies from
person to person. Some experience it all at once, others may experience
it in various stages. It is internal and subjective, you cannot see it
on the outside, though you can infer certain things from what a person
says sometimes. Also we all speak in the language and manner with which
we are most familiar; a person who grew up in the shadow (or the light)
of the TMO will probably not speak of experience in terminology common
to another sector of the enlightenment game. But as it is subjective, a
change of perception and understanding, it is internalâ€who else
is going to know about it, unless the person who has the experience
decides to say something about what was experienced?

How this gets out to others is a function of how one grows into living
the experience for in many ways these experiences are like being born,
one is in a new world, even if it is just the same old world, but one
has to become accommodated to this change in experience before it might
make an impact on others, which means one must find a way to express the
experience in a manner that others can in some way get a handle on, and
it may take some longer to settle into to what happened. There is no law
that says you must talk about it, or storm the world to bring the
experience to everyone, as everyone already really has it. I think Mr.
Archer did well to describe this experience. If I were to describe mine,
it would not be the same way, some similarities maybe, a lot
differences, for sure.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:

 All that seems
 to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
 own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
 ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
 value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
 to hear more about that.

When a crack, heroin, alcohol or food addict, gets clean, gets outside of the 
addiction, it appears that most don't say how selfish, its all about you and 
ask how did you help anyone else in the world? and what did you do for me 
today? 

While I am sympathetic to your POV, in the past I have asked, where are the 
human virtues?  However, we might be addicted to the introductory lecture 
(whether TM, neo-buddhism, or Andrew Carnegieism.) Intro lectures are 
simplified, dumbed down versions of things.

When someone loses the grip of their lives-long addiction to the thought-full 
mind, past and future, looking for satisfaction out there, blame, regret and 
judgement, I am not sure its uber-sane to ask, But what did you do for ME 
today?. Former mind and thought addicts don't owe you or me anything. Still, 
having one less person looking for love -- and satisfaction -- in all the wrong 
places seems to be a positive step for humanity.  

(And let us hear how the lessening of your addictive, monkey on your back, 
monkey mind, nature (inhert in all of us) has helped the world?) 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[turquoiseb]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
 
  All that seems
  to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
  own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
  ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
  value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
  to hear more about that.
 
 When a crack, heroin, alcohol or food addict, gets clean, 
 gets outside of the addiction, it appears that most don't 
 say how selfish, its all about you and ask how did you 
 help anyone else in the world? and what did you do for 
 me today? 

So you're suggesting that all but a handful of people
on this planet are the equivalent of crack, heroin,
alcohol, or food addicts because they're not enlight-
ened? How elitist is that? :-)

And how in line with much of the dogma of enlightenment.

 While I am sympathetic to your POV, in the past I have asked, 
 where are the human virtues?  However, we might be addicted 
 to the introductory lecture (whether TM, neo-buddhism, or 
 Andrew Carnegieism.) Intro lectures are simplified, dumbed 
 down versions of things.
 
 When someone loses the grip of their lives-long addiction to 
 the thought-full mind, past and future, looking for satisfaction 
 out there, blame, regret and judgement, I am not sure its uber-
 sane to ask, But what did you do for ME today?. 

I didn't use the word me. I carefully used the word
anyone. What have the supposedly-enlightened done
for ANYONE? What tangible benefit does *their* enlight-
enment have for anyone else? I think it's a viable
question.

 Former mind and thought addicts don't owe you or me anything. 

Yeah, because they were addicts, and now they're not.
Right. 

For the record, I see NO DIFFERENCE between the subjec-
tive state of non-enlightenment and the subjective
state of enlightenment. They're both just mindstates.
So, just as one could viably ask the addicts what
they have done for anyone else lately, one can ask
it of the supposedly enlightened. If they're so 
enlightened and all, 1) the question shouldn't bother
them and 2) they should have a ready answer. 

 Still, having one less person looking for love -- and 
 satisfaction -- in all the wrong places seems to be a 
 positive step for humanity.  

Only if one believes the dogma that there are wrong
places. And that those who are not claiming enlighten-
ment are the equivalent of junkies. I don't believe
that, and am a bit surprised that you do.

 (And let us hear how the lessening of your addictive, 
 monkey on your back, monkey mind, nature (inhert in all 
 of us) has helped the world?)

I help the world as much as I can. One of the ways I
do so is by not considering all but a handful of its
inhabitants to be monkeys and addicts. Can you
say the same?

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
  
   All that seems
   to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
   own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
   ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
   value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
   to hear more about that.
  
  When a crack, heroin, alcohol or food addict, gets clean, 
  gets outside of the addiction, it appears that most don't 
  say how selfish, its all about you and ask how did you 
  help anyone else in the world? and what did you do for 
  me today? 

I am suggesting that most of humanity is addicted to a thought-full mind, 
finding happiness in the past and future, and swimming in the joys of regret, 
blame and judgement. How that manifests may be different from crack addicts. 
Still its deeper addiction than to crack, IMO. Crack, people kick in a few 
months. The above addictions, people can't shake in many lifetimes. 

 
 So you're suggesting that all but a handful of people
 on this planet are the equivalent of crack, heroin,
 alcohol, or food addicts because they're not enlight-
 ened? How elitist is that? :-)

There are various degrees of addiction to the bag of addictions cited above. 
Some, like smack addicts, can be quite functional.

 
 And how in line with much of the dogma of enlightenment.
 

Well, I get your take that you are interpreting my comments as So 
Enlightenment is so special Just the opposite. Getting well, getting healed is 
absolutely nothing special. And may make one less special in terms of outer 
accomplishments, relations and all. 

  While I am sympathetic to your POV, in the past I have asked, 
  where are the human virtues?  However, we might be addicted 
  to the introductory lecture (whether TM, neo-buddhism, or 
  Andrew Carnegieism.) Intro lectures are simplified, dumbed 
  down versions of things.
  
  When someone loses the grip of their lives-long addiction to 
  the thought-full mind, past and future, looking for satisfaction 
  out there, blame, regret and judgement, I am not sure its uber-
  sane to ask, But what did you do for ME today?. 
 
 I didn't use the word me. 

And I assumed you understood that ME was not referring solely to YOU.  

I carefully used the word
 anyone. What have the supposedly-enlightened done
 for ANYONE? What tangible benefit does *their* enlight-
 enment have for anyone else? I think it's a viable
 question.

As are many Mu questions. They seem viable to the asker. Does not make them no 
Mu.
 
  Former mind and thought addicts don't owe you or me anything. 
 
 Yeah, because they were addicts, and now they're not.
 Right. 
 
 For the record, I see NO DIFFERENCE between the subjec-
 tive state of non-enlightenment and the subjective
 state of enlightenment. 

Of course there is no difference. These are mind states. Everyone has mind 
states.

 They're both just mindstates.

Ah, so we agree, ha.

 So, just as one could viably ask the addicts what
 they have done for anyone else lately, one can ask
 it of the supposedly enlightened. 

I don't ask anyone what they have done for me lately. Or for anyone else. I am 
content that people are working through their stuff and everyone is doing the 
best they can. Even the lesser addicted.

If they're so 
 enlightened and all, 1) the question shouldn't bother
 them and 2) they should have a ready answer. 

Well you seem bothered -- not sure it bothers anyone else.
 
  Still, having one less person looking for love -- and 
  satisfaction -- in all the wrong places seems to be a 
  positive step for humanity.  
 
 Only if one believes the dogma that there are wrong
 places. And that those who are not claiming enlighten-
 ment are the equivalent of junkies. I don't believe
 that, and am a bit surprised that you do.

Jeez, can't you reduce this to more black and white even more, and get rid of 
any speck or semblance of original context and meaning?



 
  (And let us hear how the lessening of your addictive, 
  monkey on your back, monkey mind, nature (inhert in all 
  of us) has helped the world?)
 
 I help the world as much as I can. 

Isn't that special. (as the Church Lady would say)


 One of the ways I
 do so is by not considering all but a handful of its
 inhabitants to be monkeys and addicts. 

Ah,you are the pillar of human virtues.

Me, I am dog poo -- I am quite comfortable with that.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Barry appears endlessly frustrated by his own efforts as a seeker,externalizing 
his frustrations instead on 'others' . I'd answer his question by saying there 
is no apparent benefit of a self realized person to others, only to themselves. 
Further, the ripening state of self realization is one in which the boundaries 
between the self and others begins to dissipate, so draw your own conclusions.

Thanks for your response Tartbrain. Enjoyed it. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
   
All that seems
to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
to hear more about that.
   
   When a crack, heroin, alcohol or food addict, gets clean, 
   gets outside of the addiction, it appears that most don't 
   say how selfish, its all about you and ask how did you 
   help anyone else in the world? and what did you do for 
   me today? 
 
 I am suggesting that most of humanity is addicted to a thought-full mind, 
 finding happiness in the past and future, and swimming in the joys of 
 regret, blame and judgement. How that manifests may be different from crack 
 addicts. Still its deeper addiction than to crack, IMO. Crack, people kick in 
 a few months. The above addictions, people can't shake in many lifetimes. 
 
  
  So you're suggesting that all but a handful of people
  on this planet are the equivalent of crack, heroin,
  alcohol, or food addicts because they're not enlight-
  ened? How elitist is that? :-)
 
 There are various degrees of addiction to the bag of addictions cited above. 
 Some, like smack addicts, can be quite functional.
 
  
  And how in line with much of the dogma of enlightenment.
  
 
 Well, I get your take that you are interpreting my comments as So 
 Enlightenment is so special Just the opposite. Getting well, getting healed 
 is absolutely nothing special. And may make one less special in terms of 
 outer accomplishments, relations and all. 
 
   While I am sympathetic to your POV, in the past I have asked, 
   where are the human virtues?  However, we might be addicted 
   to the introductory lecture (whether TM, neo-buddhism, or 
   Andrew Carnegieism.) Intro lectures are simplified, dumbed 
   down versions of things.
   
   When someone loses the grip of their lives-long addiction to 
   the thought-full mind, past and future, looking for satisfaction 
   out there, blame, regret and judgement, I am not sure its uber-
   sane to ask, But what did you do for ME today?. 
  
  I didn't use the word me. 
 
 And I assumed you understood that ME was not referring solely to YOU.  
 
 I carefully used the word
  anyone. What have the supposedly-enlightened done
  for ANYONE? What tangible benefit does *their* enlight-
  enment have for anyone else? I think it's a viable
  question.
 
 As are many Mu questions. They seem viable to the asker. Does not make them 
 no Mu.
  
   Former mind and thought addicts don't owe you or me anything. 
  
  Yeah, because they were addicts, and now they're not.
  Right. 
  
  For the record, I see NO DIFFERENCE between the subjec-
  tive state of non-enlightenment and the subjective
  state of enlightenment. 
 
 Of course there is no difference. These are mind states. Everyone has mind 
 states.
 
  They're both just mindstates.
 
 Ah, so we agree, ha.
 
  So, just as one could viably ask the addicts what
  they have done for anyone else lately, one can ask
  it of the supposedly enlightened. 
 
 I don't ask anyone what they have done for me lately. Or for anyone else. I 
 am content that people are working through their stuff and everyone is doing 
 the best they can. Even the lesser addicted.
 
 If they're so 
  enlightened and all, 1) the question shouldn't bother
  them and 2) they should have a ready answer. 
 
 Well you seem bothered -- not sure it bothers anyone else.
  
   Still, having one less person looking for love -- and 
   satisfaction -- in all the wrong places seems to be a 
   positive step for humanity.  
  
  Only if one believes the dogma that there are wrong
  places. And that those who are not claiming enlighten-
  ment are the equivalent of junkies. I don't believe
  that, and am a bit surprised that you do.
 
 Jeez, can't you reduce this to more black and white even more, and get rid of 
 any speck or semblance of original context and meaning?
 
 
 
  
   (And let us hear how the lessening of your addictive, 
   monkey on your back, monkey mind, nature (inhert in all 
   of us) has helped the world?)
  
  I help the world as much as I can. 
 
 Isn't that special. (as the Church Lady would say)
 
 
  One of 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[tartbrain]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote:
 
 
  Still, having one less person looking for love -- and 
  satisfaction -- in all the wrong places seems to be a 
  positive step for humanity.  
 
 Only if one believes the dogma that there are wrong
 places. 

Quoting a song and having it understood in a precise literal sense is 
interesting. 

Some places bring quick satisfaction. But it doesn't last. Its not present. 
Other ways provide satisfaction 24/7. If one is looking for permanent 
satisfaction, there are some suboptimal paths, IMO. But yes, over a long span 
of time, licking the dewdrops of grasses in the meadow will quench ones thirst. 
This is not a wrong way or wrong place (you do like polarizations don't you). 
However, the nearby lake gives abundant thirst satisfaction 24/7. That doesn't 
make it the RIGHT place. But you do the math.
   

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of nablusoss1008
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:33 AM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

  



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , wayback71 wayback71@...
wrote:

 Rick
 This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts. Thank you.

Agreed. An posted by none other than one of the foremost TMO-bashers of the
century. Something good must be happening :-)

In addition to what you write I was struck by the simplicity in describing
his state of consciousness. Very beautiful.

The guy is a good friend of mine. I know his experience is genuine. It's the
true believers who bash him. He wrote to me yesterday when I encouraged him
to do a BatGap interview:

As for hiding my light under a bushel, what has become obvious to me is
that to speak this out in any public way is to invite criticism, ridicule,
and skepticism. I actually overheard another course participant quip while
reading my original description, sounds like a bunch of hippy drivel to
me. Not really the response one hopes to achieve, is it?

I have never bashed the TMO. I only shine a light on hypocrisy. There's
plenty of good in the TMO, and I'm quick to point that out. IOW, I don't
have a lop-sided agenda like you do Nabby. I'm able to embrace paradoxical
viewpoints and information. 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Bhairitu]

On 05/02/2011 12:36 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71wayback71@...  wrote:
 Rick
 This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts.
 Thank you.
 I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap, and I
 commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have some
 writerly quibbles about some of the language, like
 CC arrived and had come, because my similar exper-
 iences, although more fleeting, had no sense whatsoever
 of there being anything new, anything that had arrived
 or come. It was more like finally noticing what had
 always already been present, every minute of my life.

 What I'd be interested in, if this person ever feels
 like writing it up, is whether he/she can pinpoint any
 ways in which this subjective realization has been of
 benefit to anyone else. That's the missing component
 of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I
 run across. It's almost as if the process of self
 realization can be described more accurately as
 selfish realization in most of them. All that seems
 to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
 own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
 ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
 value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
 to hear more about that.


Logically CC should not be a binary experience.  IOW, a switch goes on 
and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For instance someone noticing, 
as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there.  
And more particularly over time should grow.  So some of these things 
are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
they popped into CC.  They were already there.

TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
and it was not that uncommon.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Bhairitu
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:18 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

Logically CC should not be a binary experience. IOW, a switch goes on 
and you're there. It would be gradual. For instance someone noticing, 
as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
in activity. It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there. 
And more particularly over time should grow. So some of these things 
are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
they popped into CC. They were already there.

TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
and it was not that uncommon.

 

In my experience talking to people, some experience a clear demarcation, but
most ooze into it. You can get wet getting caught in a sudden downpour, or
you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either way you're wet, but in the
latter case, you can't really say when it happened.

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Vaj]

On May 2, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On 
 Behalf Of Bhairitu
 Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:18 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
  
 Logically CC should not be a binary experience. IOW, a switch goes on 
 and you're there. It would be gradual. For instance someone noticing, 
 as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
 meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
 in activity. It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there. 
 And more particularly over time should grow. So some of these things 
 are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
 they popped into CC. They were already there.
 
 TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
 I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
 and it was not that uncommon.
  
 In my experience talking to people, some experience a clear demarcation, but 
 most ooze into it. You can get wet getting caught in a sudden downpour, or 
 you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either way you’re wet, but in the 
 latter case, you can’t really say when it happened.

Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it 
very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the 
way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a 
violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not 
expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear people 
experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to jump to 
exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely acquired and 
grafted onto obsessions.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Vaj]

On May 2, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 Logically CC should not be a binary experience.  IOW, a switch goes on 
 and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For instance someone noticing, 
 as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
 meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
 in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there.  
 And more particularly over time should grow.  So some of these things 
 are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
 they popped into CC.  They were already there.
 
 TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
 I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
 and it was not that uncommon.

Indians are an often superstitious people, so maybe they would believe that. 
However yogis describe it as an extremely rare stage.

RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Rick Archer]

From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Vaj
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:36 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

 

  

In my experience talking to people, some experience a clear demarcation, but
most ooze into it. You can get wet getting caught in a sudden downpour, or
you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either way you're wet, but in the
latter case, you can't really say when it happened.

 

Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it
very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the
way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a
violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did
not expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear
people experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to
jump to exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely
acquired and grafted onto obsessions.

 

Have you undergone that transition? 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Vaj, you forgot to add, ...and because it happened as a result of TM, it 
cannot possibly be true in any way, shape or form..., but we heard it anyway, 
so no worries. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:

 
 On May 2, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] 
  On Behalf Of Bhairitu
  Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:18 PM
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
   
  Logically CC should not be a binary experience. IOW, a switch goes on 
  and you're there. It would be gradual. For instance someone noticing, 
  as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
  meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
  in activity. It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there. 
  And more particularly over time should grow. So some of these things 
  are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
  they popped into CC. They were already there.
  
  TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
  I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
  and it was not that uncommon.
   
  In my experience talking to people, some experience a clear demarcation, 
  but most ooze into it. You can get wet getting caught in a sudden downpour, 
  or you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either way you're wet, but in 
  the latter case, you can't really say when it happened.
 
 Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it 
 very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the 
 way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a 
 violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did 
 not expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear 
 people experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to jump 
 to exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely acquired and 
 grafted onto obsessions.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Buck]

Rick, what a fine account.  Could you use it on the home page for FairfieldLife?

You know, stick it underneath that Bertrand Russell quote and skip the rest of 
that other stuff there.  Just leave the FFL home page description with parts of 
this person's essay as FFL.  You know, 
let the meditation quitters eat their hearts out.

Best,
-Buck 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the Dome
 one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
 Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since 1978.
 
  
 
 How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is it was clear
 that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me as I exited the Dome. It
 was clear that soft transcendence, that feeling of unboundedness I had
 become accustomed to in meditation all those years ... was now with me in
 activity. Everything was different © yet the same. This new element was with
 me as if dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new purity,
 this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity.
 
  
 
 As with most of us, I had a career to manage during all those years, and a
 family, with children, to support. But I made time for my program twice a
 day no matter what, even if it meant, as it often did, meditating in a bus,
 an airplane, a library or even more unlikely locations.
 
  
 
 It never occurred to me to stop meditating, or even miss a meditation. I
 knew before my intro lecture was half over, that I would do this TM thing,
 and would never stop.
 
  
 
 Over the years, I waited expectantly and patiently for cosmic
 consciousness to arrive. Always feeling it must be just around the corner.
 
  
 
 As decades of practice elapsed and I grew older, I began to abandon any
 notion that I would reach cosmic consciousness in this life. I never stopped
 believing it was a reality, nor that Maharishi's TM and TM-Sidhi program
 could lead one there. I just stopped believing that it was going to happen
 to me.
 
  
 
 While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy going
 on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I had
 noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
 significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau. Like I
 was walking in place.
 
  
 
 My general attitude was, OK, it's not going to happen in this life. But I
 know TM is a good thing. I've always known that, from my very first
 meditation. So, I'll just keep doing it because I should go as far as I can
 in this life. Who knows © maybe next time around ...
 
  
 
 So, when cosmic consciousness tiptoed up to me that November day, just after
 I turned 64, I was absolutely astounded and delighted. It seemed so
 delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not expect it to last. As days and
 weeks went by, the experience not only endured but grew in strength. I
 finally came to accept without any doubt -- it was here to stay.  With that,
 I began to relax into it and just let it be what it was...without any
 expectations or preconceived notions.
 
  
 
 I was as surprised as anyone that such a thing could happen to me. As far as
 I or anyone could tell from my life, I was as unlikely and undeserving a
 candidate for this as anyone I could think of. Even after years of
 meditating I still had flaws you could drive a truck through. I was nowhere
 near as well studied in the Vedic literature as so many around me. One might
 call my daily routine marginally ayurvedic, I suppose. But even that would
 be a stretch. Given all my responsibilities, I figured I was doing the best
 I could.
 
  
 
 Yet here IT was and IT was undeniable. I thought perhaps it was one of those
 1% chances of a cosmic mistake I heard Maharishi talk about once. And for
 quite a while was sure that as soon as the mistake was discovered by the
 Cosmic computer, it would be rectified.
 
  
 
 Two and half years later, to my increasing delight, the experience of cosmic
 consciousness has matured into something even grander. Being shines at me
 from all things and all people. My own Self is everywhere, in everything and
 everyone. The burdens, troubles and vicissitudes of life seem all but gone
 or, at least, drastically mitigated. In their place, is a lightness,
 delight, sweetness and ease ... that is absolutely indescribable.
 
  
 
 Believe me, I know this is no accomplishment of mine. Any kudos for this are
 due to Maharishi and Guru Dev alone. This is not false modesty. This is the
 truth.
 
  
 
 The only thing I ever did was to follow the simple (thank goodness)
 instructions Maharishi gave for the practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi program.
 Really, that's all I ever did. That it resulted in this experience for me
 ... is as miraculous as anything I can think of. Yet it's utterly real,
 utterly simple, and utterly available to all. That I know for certain.
 
  
 
 If 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Dude, there is no way he can answer that - If he says ,yes he's not telling 
the truth, and if he says,no, he loses all of his imagined credibility here. 
Ask him something safe, like has he ever met the Dalai Lama, and what was it 
like?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
 On Behalf Of Vaj
 Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 4:36 PM
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
 
  
 
   
 
 In my experience talking to people, some experience a clear demarcation, but
 most ooze into it. You can get wet getting caught in a sudden downpour, or
 you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either way you're wet, but in the
 latter case, you can't really say when it happened.
 
  
 
 Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it
 very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the
 way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a
 violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did
 not expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear
 people experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to
 jump to exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely
 acquired and grafted onto obsessions.
 
  
 
 Have you undergone that transition?

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Ravi Yogi]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote:

 
 
 Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it 
 very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the 
 way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a 
 violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did 
 not expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear 
 people experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to jump 
 to exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely acquired and 
 grafted onto obsessions.


Vaj, me, me I went through what you call a violent digestion. I could have 
called the descent of consciousness as a violent possession or invasion, at 
least my body, mind and ego treated it as such. It started Apr 12 last year 
gently enough but got stronger and stronger till I was psychotic by May 21st - 
FFL was a mute defenseless victim of my psychosis :-) and then by May 25th I 
totally lost it. However what has arised from it is the most beautiful. However 
I'm not sure if everyone has to go through it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

Yeah, logically there has to be conditioning prior to permanent  awakening. But 
that isn't necessarily the same thing as recognizing it as such, as it happens. 
I recall despite the underlying conditioning towards support of awakening 
(which was creating a huge cognitive dissonance in the background, and more and 
more in the foreground), I had built quite a secure structure I thought, on 
which to hang my beliefs and judge everyone and everything accordingly. 

You can imagine how flimsy a structure that was. So although the conditioning 
was there, I also was unable to see reality or more accurately experience it, 
until this very distracting structure crumbled. And it did, very quickly. And 
that is why I experienced such a drastic transition, even though as you say, 
the foundation had to already be there to support it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:

 On 05/02/2011 12:36 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71wayback71@  wrote:
  Rick
  This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts.
  Thank you.
  I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap, and I
  commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have some
  writerly quibbles about some of the language, like
  CC arrived and had come, because my similar exper-
  iences, although more fleeting, had no sense whatsoever
  of there being anything new, anything that had arrived
  or come. It was more like finally noticing what had
  always already been present, every minute of my life.
 
  What I'd be interested in, if this person ever feels
  like writing it up, is whether he/she can pinpoint any
  ways in which this subjective realization has been of
  benefit to anyone else. That's the missing component
  of pretty much all of the raps about enlightenment I
  run across. It's almost as if the process of self
  realization can be described more accurately as
  selfish realization in most of them. All that seems
  to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
  own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
  ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
  value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
  to hear more about that.
 
 
 Logically CC should not be a binary experience.  IOW, a switch goes on 
 and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For instance someone noticing, 
 as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
 meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
 in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there.  
 And more particularly over time should grow.  So some of these things 
 are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
 they popped into CC.  They were already there.
 
 TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
 I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
 and it was not that uncommon.

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Ravi Yogi]

Nice comments Tartji, I would say that Enlightenment is not a thing of utility. 
Enlightenment is a state where you realize that you need not be a millionaire 
with a million dollar wife, a million dollar car, a million dollar house and 
million dollar kids to be happy. You don't have to help suffering people in 
Iraq, Japan or Bangladesh. You don't have to a damn thing and that you don't 
owe anyone anything. That the existence is in a blissful orgasm with you every 
minute.

So Barry is right in a way that it is a selfish realization. However out of 
that selfish self absorbed state comes true compassion and love. 

It's not because you owe anyone a damn thing.

It's because your cup is so overflowing that you naturally would like to share.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote:
 
  All that seems
  to matter is the person's subjective sense of their
  own subjective state of consciousness. We never hear of
  ways in which this subjective state proves itself of
  value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd like
  to hear more about that.
 
 When a crack, heroin, alcohol or food addict, gets clean, gets outside of 
 the addiction, it appears that most don't say how selfish, its all about 
 you and ask how did you help anyone else in the world? and what did you 
 do for me today? 
 
 While I am sympathetic to your POV, in the past I have asked, where are the 
 human virtues?  However, we might be addicted to the introductory lecture 
 (whether TM, neo-buddhism, or Andrew Carnegieism.) Intro lectures are 
 simplified, dumbed down versions of things.
 
 When someone loses the grip of their lives-long addiction to the thought-full 
 mind, past and future, looking for satisfaction out there, blame, regret and 
 judgement, I am not sure its uber-sane to ask, But what did you do for ME 
 today?. Former mind and thought addicts don't owe you or me anything. Still, 
 having one less person looking for love -- and satisfaction -- in all the 
 wrong places seems to be a positive step for humanity.  
 
 (And let us hear how the lessening of your addictive, monkey on your back, 
 monkey mind, nature (inhert in all of us) has helped the world?)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Peter]

I think you have to leave a pretty big allowance for individual differences. 
I'm always suspect to a certain degree of someone talking about CC as I felt 
this and I experienced that. My experience of CC was a sudden violent 
transition of individual identity to no localization at all in about 3 seconds. 
But does this mean everybody has to experience that? I used to think so, but 
now I don't to a certain degree. The intellect is less arrogant, I guess. 
Why do you say that logically CC would not be a binary experience? Any 
experience is a condition of mind. Often people confuse sattvic states of mind 
as Being. Even Maharishi used to talk this way (he knew it wasn't true) of 
infusing being. Of course it's ridiculous. He was just entertaining us. I 
can't grok a gradual experience of CC. You're bound, even in great sattva, 
one moment, and then, in some weird magical way that consciousness that you 
call me suddenly opens into its non-localization. Truly a Holy shit moment 
if there ever was one. You can't even really talk about it. It sounds 
ridiculous. Hi. I'm not here No truer words could ever be spoken, but nobody 
gets it if they are not realized. I was never born and will never die I am 
not personal or impersonal I have nothing to do with anything Everything is 
in me, but I am not Yeah, that's some real clear shit!
So, I hope this guy is awake to his own ineffable Being; that he belongs to 
the holy shit club who's members gather once a year and walk around in 
stunned silence alternating with periods of hysterical laughter at the 
indecipherable and indescribable absurd beauty of pure existence.   

--- On Mon, 5/2/11, Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net wrote:

From: Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 2, 2011, 5:35 PM











 












On May 2, 2011, at 3:41 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Bhairitu
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 2:18 PM
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness  Logically 
CC should not be a binary experience. IOW, a switch goes on 
and you're there. It would be gradual. For instance someone noticing, 
as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer come out of 
meditation and that the experience of the transcendence was there along 
in activity. It might be a mild experience of it but it *is* there. 
And more particularly over time should grow. So some of these things 
are flash experiences or a spike in the experience but I wouldn't say 
they popped into CC. They were already there.

TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve enlightenment but 
I found in India people expected folks practicing sadhana to get there 
and it was not that uncommon.  In my experience talking to people, some 
experience a clear demarcation, but most ooze into it. You can get wet getting 
caught in a sudden downpour, or you can get wet walking in a heavy mist. Either 
way you’re wet, but in the latter case, you can’t really say when it happened.
Then they might be experiencing growing awareness or just relaxation, but it 
very likely not turiyatita. The transition to CC or turiyatita, at least the 
way yogis have been experiencing it for thousands of years is described as a 
violent digestion. Not It seemed so delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not 
expect it to last. While poetically beautiful and it's nice to hear people 
experiencing relaxation and enjoyment, it's also important not to jump to 
exaggerations, flights of quiet fancy or beliefs one's merely acquired and 
grafted onto obsessions.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Peter]

This is why the argument that has been postulated here that enlightenment is 
simply a deluded state of conceptual self-fulfillment is absurd. Going from 
waking state to CC is a complete shattering of all concepts regarding 
enlightenment. What you think CC will be in waking state has very little to do 
with the actual experience of it. But it is still good to have these concepts 
because once you are realized, you can really understand them for the first 
time. 'Witnessing, Unboundedness non-doing; these terms meant one thing in 
waking state and they mean something completely different in realization. Now 
they actually point towards something, as it were and help the mind cope.  

--- On Mon, 5/2/11, whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com wrote:

 From: whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, May 2, 2011, 6:45 PM
 Yeah, logically there has to be
 conditioning prior to permanent  awakening. But that
 isn't necessarily the same thing as recognizing it as such,
 as it happens. I recall despite the underlying conditioning
 towards support of awakening (which was creating a huge
 cognitive dissonance in the background, and more and more in
 the foreground), I had built quite a secure structure I
 thought, on which to hang my beliefs and judge everyone and
 everything accordingly. 
 
 You can imagine how flimsy a structure that was. So
 although the conditioning was there, I also was unable to
 see reality or more accurately experience it, until this
 very distracting structure crumbled. And it did, very
 quickly. And that is why I experienced such a drastic
 transition, even though as you say, the foundation had to
 already be there to support it.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote:
 
  On 05/02/2011 12:36 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 wayback71wayback71@  wrote:
   Rick
   This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and
 moving accounts.
   Thank you.
   I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap,
 and I
   commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have
 some
   writerly quibbles about some of the language,
 like
   CC arrived and had come, because my similar
 exper-
   iences, although more fleeting, had no sense
 whatsoever
   of there being anything new, anything that had
 arrived
   or come. It was more like finally noticing what
 had
   always already been present, every minute of my
 life.
  
   What I'd be interested in, if this person ever
 feels
   like writing it up, is whether he/she can
 pinpoint any
   ways in which this subjective realization has
 been of
   benefit to anyone else. That's the missing
 component
   of pretty much all of the raps about
 enlightenment I
   run across. It's almost as if the process of
 self
   realization can be described more accurately as
   selfish realization in most of them. All that
 seems
   to matter is the person's subjective sense of
 their
   own subjective state of consciousness. We never
 hear of
   ways in which this subjective state proves itself
 of
   value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd
 like
   to hear more about that.
  
  
  Logically CC should not be a binary experience. 
 IOW, a switch goes on 
  and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For
 instance someone noticing, 
  as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer
 come out of 
  meditation and that the experience of the
 transcendence was there along 
  in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it
 but it *is* there.  
  And more particularly over time should grow.  So
 some of these things 
  are flash experiences or a spike in the experience
 but I wouldn't say 
  they popped into CC.  They were already there.
  
  TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve
 enlightenment but 
  I found in India people expected folks practicing
 sadhana to get there 
  and it was not that uncommon.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
     fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
 
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[whynotnow7]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@... wrote:

 This is why the argument that has been postulated here that enlightenment is 
 simply a deluded state of conceptual self-fulfillment is absurd.

**Kind of the opposite, since the container and what is in it keep expanding 
out of anyone's control, if there was such a thing to begin with.

 Going from waking state to CC is a complete shattering of all concepts 
regarding enlightenment. 

**Ka-Boom.

What you think CC will be in waking state has very little to do with the actual 
experience of it. But it is still good to have these concepts because once 
you are realized, you can really understand them for the first time.

**God loves irony! I get the feeling that if you tried to call Him on this one, 
He'd be like, o, you thought all of this was to help explain how to get 
*here*...lol, no, no, no...but at least you get it now, right?
 
 'Witnessing, Unboundedness non-doing; these terms meant one thing in 
waking state and they mean something completely different in realization. Now 
they actually point towards something, as it were and help the mind cope.

**I wish after all this, at least everyone who is realized got a speedboat or 
something, y'know? After all the talk about the hut and the palace, cosmic 
this, galactic that, you'd think at least maybe a used corvette? Coach tickets 
to Vegas? Free Slurpee??? 
 
 --- On Mon, 5/2/11, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote:
 
  From: whynotnow7 whynotnow7@...
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Monday, May 2, 2011, 6:45 PM
  Yeah, logically there has to be
  conditioning prior to permanent  awakening. But that
  isn't necessarily the same thing as recognizing it as such,
  as it happens. I recall despite the underlying conditioning
  towards support of awakening (which was creating a huge
  cognitive dissonance in the background, and more and more in
  the foreground), I had built quite a secure structure I
  thought, on which to hang my beliefs and judge everyone and
  everything accordingly. 
  
  You can imagine how flimsy a structure that was. So
  although the conditioning was there, I also was unable to
  see reality or more accurately experience it, until this
  very distracting structure crumbled. And it did, very
  quickly. And that is why I experienced such a drastic
  transition, even though as you say, the foundation had to
  already be there to support it.
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
  
   On 05/02/2011 12:36 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  wayback71wayback71@  wrote:
Rick
This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and
  moving accounts.
Thank you.
I agree that this is a nicely done, low-key rap,
  and I
commend whoever wrote it for that. I might have
  some
writerly quibbles about some of the language,
  like
CC arrived and had come, because my similar
  exper-
iences, although more fleeting, had no sense
  whatsoever
of there being anything new, anything that had
  arrived
or come. It was more like finally noticing what
  had
always already been present, every minute of my
  life.
   
What I'd be interested in, if this person ever
  feels
like writing it up, is whether he/she can
  pinpoint any
ways in which this subjective realization has
  been of
benefit to anyone else. That's the missing
  component
of pretty much all of the raps about
  enlightenment I
run across. It's almost as if the process of
  self
realization can be described more accurately as
selfish realization in most of them. All that
  seems
to matter is the person's subjective sense of
  their
own subjective state of consciousness. We never
  hear of
ways in which this subjective state proves itself
  of
value to anyone else in the objective world. I'd
  like
to hear more about that.
   
   
   Logically CC should not be a binary experience. 
  IOW, a switch goes on 
   and you're there.  It would be gradual.  For
  instance someone noticing, 
   as they did years ago, that they seemed to no longer
  come out of 
   meditation and that the experience of the
  transcendence was there along 
   in activity.  It might be a mild experience of it
  but it *is* there.  
   And more particularly over time should grow.  So
  some of these things 
   are flash experiences or a spike in the experience
  but I wouldn't say 
   they popped into CC.  They were already there.
   
   TM'ers seem to be in this mode that only a few achieve
  enlightenment but 
   I found in India people expected folks practicing
  sadhana to get there 
   and it was not that uncommon.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  To subscribe, send a message to:
  fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
  
  Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
  and click 'Join

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[Ravi Yogi]

Thanks for posting this. This is beautiful especially the parts - I
know this is no accomplishment of mine and  If my life serves no other
purpose, it is to demonstrate that, if this can happen to someone like
me, it can happen to anyone - these definitely resonate with how I
felt.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the
Dome
 one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
 Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since
1978.



 How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is it was
clear
 that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me as I exited the
Dome. It
 was clear that soft transcendence, that feeling of unboundedness I had
 become accustomed to in meditation all those years ... was now with me
in
 activity. Everything was different © yet the same. This new element
was with
 me as if dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new
purity,
 this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity.



 As with most of us, I had a career to manage during all those years,
and a
 family, with children, to support. But I made time for my program
twice a
 day no matter what, even if it meant, as it often did, meditating in a
bus,
 an airplane, a library or even more unlikely locations.



 It never occurred to me to stop meditating, or even miss a meditation.
I
 knew before my intro lecture was half over, that I would do this TM
thing,
 and would never stop.



 Over the years, I waited expectantly and patiently for cosmic
 consciousness to arrive. Always feeling it must be just around the
corner.



 As decades of practice elapsed and I grew older, I began to abandon
any
 notion that I would reach cosmic consciousness in this life. I never
stopped
 believing it was a reality, nor that Maharishi's TM and TM-Sidhi
program
 could lead one there. I just stopped believing that it was going to
happen
 to me.



 While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy
going
 on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I
had
 noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
 significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau.
Like I
 was walking in place.



 My general attitude was, OK, it's not going to happen in this life.
But I
 know TM is a good thing. I've always known that, from my very first
 meditation. So, I'll just keep doing it because I should go as far as
I can
 in this life. Who knows © maybe next time around ...



 So, when cosmic consciousness tiptoed up to me that November day, just
after
 I turned 64, I was absolutely astounded and delighted. It seemed so
 delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not expect it to last. As days
and
 weeks went by, the experience not only endured but grew in strength. I
 finally came to accept without any doubt -- it was here to stay.  With
that,
 I began to relax into it and just let it be what it was...without any
 expectations or preconceived notions.



 I was as surprised as anyone that such a thing could happen to me. As
far as
 I or anyone could tell from my life, I was as unlikely and undeserving
a
 candidate for this as anyone I could think of. Even after years of
 meditating I still had flaws you could drive a truck through. I was
nowhere
 near as well studied in the Vedic literature as so many around me. One
might
 call my daily routine marginally ayurvedic, I suppose. But even that
would
 be a stretch. Given all my responsibilities, I figured I was doing the
best
 I could.



 Yet here IT was and IT was undeniable. I thought perhaps it was one of
those
 1% chances of a cosmic mistake I heard Maharishi talk about once. And
for
 quite a while was sure that as soon as the mistake was discovered by
the
 Cosmic computer, it would be rectified.



 Two and half years later, to my increasing delight, the experience of
cosmic
 consciousness has matured into something even grander. Being shines at
me
 from all things and all people. My own Self is everywhere, in
everything and
 everyone. The burdens, troubles and vicissitudes of life seem all but
gone
 or, at least, drastically mitigated. In their place, is a lightness,
 delight, sweetness and ease ... that is absolutely indescribable.



 Believe me, I know this is no accomplishment of mine. Any kudos for
this are
 due to Maharishi and Guru Dev alone. This is not false modesty. This
is the
 truth.



 The only thing I ever did was to follow the simple (thank goodness)
 instructions Maharishi gave for the practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi
program.
 Really, that's all I ever did. That it resulted in this experience for
me
 ... is as miraculous as anything I can think of. Yet it's utterly
real,
 utterly simple, and utterly available to all. That I know for certain.



 If my life serves no other purpose, it is to demonstrate that, if this
can
 happen to someone like me, it can happen to 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[wayback71]

Rick
This is one of the most heartfelt, direct and moving accounts. Thank you.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the Dome
 one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
 Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since 1978.
 
  
 
 How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is it was clear
 that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me as I exited the Dome. It
 was clear that soft transcendence, that feeling of unboundedness I had
 become accustomed to in meditation all those years ... was now with me in
 activity. Everything was different © yet the same. This new element was with
 me as if dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new purity,
 this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity.
 
  
 
 As with most of us, I had a career to manage during all those years, and a
 family, with children, to support. But I made time for my program twice a
 day no matter what, even if it meant, as it often did, meditating in a bus,
 an airplane, a library or even more unlikely locations.
 
  
 
 It never occurred to me to stop meditating, or even miss a meditation. I
 knew before my intro lecture was half over, that I would do this TM thing,
 and would never stop.
 
  
 
 Over the years, I waited expectantly and patiently for cosmic
 consciousness to arrive. Always feeling it must be just around the corner.
 
  
 
 As decades of practice elapsed and I grew older, I began to abandon any
 notion that I would reach cosmic consciousness in this life. I never stopped
 believing it was a reality, nor that Maharishi's TM and TM-Sidhi program
 could lead one there. I just stopped believing that it was going to happen
 to me.
 
  
 
 While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy going
 on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I had
 noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
 significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau. Like I
 was walking in place.
 
  
 
 My general attitude was, OK, it's not going to happen in this life. But I
 know TM is a good thing. I've always known that, from my very first
 meditation. So, I'll just keep doing it because I should go as far as I can
 in this life. Who knows © maybe next time around ...
 
  
 
 So, when cosmic consciousness tiptoed up to me that November day, just after
 I turned 64, I was absolutely astounded and delighted. It seemed so
 delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not expect it to last. As days and
 weeks went by, the experience not only endured but grew in strength. I
 finally came to accept without any doubt -- it was here to stay.  With that,
 I began to relax into it and just let it be what it was...without any
 expectations or preconceived notions.
 
  
 
 I was as surprised as anyone that such a thing could happen to me. As far as
 I or anyone could tell from my life, I was as unlikely and undeserving a
 candidate for this as anyone I could think of. Even after years of
 meditating I still had flaws you could drive a truck through. I was nowhere
 near as well studied in the Vedic literature as so many around me. One might
 call my daily routine marginally ayurvedic, I suppose. But even that would
 be a stretch. Given all my responsibilities, I figured I was doing the best
 I could.
 
  
 
 Yet here IT was and IT was undeniable. I thought perhaps it was one of those
 1% chances of a cosmic mistake I heard Maharishi talk about once. And for
 quite a while was sure that as soon as the mistake was discovered by the
 Cosmic computer, it would be rectified.
 
  
 
 Two and half years later, to my increasing delight, the experience of cosmic
 consciousness has matured into something even grander. Being shines at me
 from all things and all people. My own Self is everywhere, in everything and
 everyone. The burdens, troubles and vicissitudes of life seem all but gone
 or, at least, drastically mitigated. In their place, is a lightness,
 delight, sweetness and ease ... that is absolutely indescribable.
 
  
 
 Believe me, I know this is no accomplishment of mine. Any kudos for this are
 due to Maharishi and Guru Dev alone. This is not false modesty. This is the
 truth.
 
  
 
 The only thing I ever did was to follow the simple (thank goodness)
 instructions Maharishi gave for the practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi program.
 Really, that's all I ever did. That it resulted in this experience for me
 ... is as miraculous as anything I can think of. Yet it's utterly real,
 utterly simple, and utterly available to all. That I know for certain.
 
  
 
 If my life serves no other purpose, it is to demonstrate that, if this can
 happen to someone like me, it can happen to anyone. It can happen to
 everyone. That it did happen to me ... reveals the immensity of Maharishi's
 knowledge and remarkable power of his 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An Example of Cosmic Consciousness

[merudanda]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote:

 Cosmic consciousness arrived, softly and unexpectedly, as I exited the
Dome
 one morning in November 2008. I was 64 years old. I had been doing
 Transcendental Meditation since 1973 and the TM-Sidhi Program since
1978.



 How did I know cosmic consciousness had come? All I can say is it was
clear
 that pure consciousness (pure being) was with me as I exited the
Dome. It
 was clear that soft transcendence, that feeling of unboundedness I had
 become accustomed to in meditation all those years ... was now with me
in
 activity. Everything was different © yet the same. This new element
was with
 me as if dogging my footsteps--this new soft sweetness, this new
purity,
 this new feeling of lightness, this new utter clarity.



 As with most of us, I had a career to manage during all those years,
and a
 family, with children, to support. But I made time for my program
twice a
 day no matter what, even if it meant, as it often did, meditating in a
bus,
 an airplane, a library or even more unlikely locations.



 It never occurred to me to stop meditating, or even miss a meditation.
I
 knew before my intro lecture was half over, that I would do this TM
thing,
 and would never stop.



 Over the years, I waited expectantly and patiently for cosmic
 consciousness to arrive. Always feeling it must be just around the
corner.



 As decades of practice elapsed and I grew older, I began to abandon
any
 notion that I would reach cosmic consciousness in this life. I never
stopped
 believing it was a reality, nor that Maharishi's TM and TM-Sidhi
program
 could lead one there. I just stopped believing that it was going to
happen
 to me.



 While I usually enjoyed my programs, there was never anything flashy
going
 on. As years passed, it even seemed that the multitude of changes I
had
 noticed in myself when I first began meditating ... had dwindled
 significantly or even disappeared. I felt like I was on a plateau.
Like I
 was walking in place.



 My general attitude was, OK, it's not going to happen in this life.
But I
 know TM is a good thing. I've always known that, from my very first
 meditation. So, I'll just keep doing it because I should go as far as
I can
 in this life. Who knows © maybe next time around ...



 So, when cosmic consciousness tiptoed up to me that November day, just
after
 I turned 64, I was absolutely astounded and delighted. It seemed so
 delicate, fragile, almost shy. I did not expect it to last. As days
and
 weeks went by, the experience not only endured but grew in strength. I
 finally came to accept without any doubt -- it was here to stay.  With
that,
 I began to relax into it and just let it be what it was...without any
 expectations or preconceived notions.



 I was as surprised as anyone that such a thing could happen to me. As
far as
 I or anyone could tell from my life, I was as unlikely and undeserving
a
 candidate for this as anyone I could think of. Even after years of
 meditating I still had flaws you could drive a truck through. I was
nowhere
 near as well studied in the Vedic literature as so many around me. One
might
 call my daily routine marginally ayurvedic, I suppose. But even that
would
 be a stretch. Given all my responsibilities, I figured I was doing the
best
 I could.



 Yet here IT was and IT was undeniable. I thought perhaps it was one of
those
 1% chances of a cosmic mistake I heard Maharishi talk about once. And
for
 quite a while was sure that as soon as the mistake was discovered by
the
 Cosmic computer, it would be rectified.



 Two and half years later, to my increasing delight, the experience of
cosmic
 consciousness has matured into something even grander. Being shines at
me
 from all things and all people. My own Self is everywhere, in
everything and
 everyone. The burdens, troubles and vicissitudes of life seem all but
gone
 or, at least, drastically mitigated. In their place, is a lightness,
 delight, sweetness and ease ... that is absolutely indescribable.



 Believe me, I know this is no accomplishment of mine. Any kudos for
this are
 due to Maharishi and Guru Dev alone. This is not false modesty. This
is the
 truth.



 The only thing I ever did was to follow the simple (thank goodness)
 instructions Maharishi gave for the practice of the TM and TM-Sidhi
program.
 Really, that's all I ever did. That it resulted in this experience for
me
 ... is as miraculous as anything I can think of. Yet it's utterly
real,
 utterly simple, and utterly available to all. That I know for certain.



 If my life serves no other purpose, it is to demonstrate that, if this
can
 happen to someone like me, it can happen to anyone. It can happen to
 everyone. That it did happen to me ... reveals the immensity of
Maharishi's
 knowledge and remarkable power of his techniques--and of course the
 unfathomable silence, bliss, and sanctity of our beloved Guru Dev.



 Jai Guru Dev

[FairfieldLife] Re: An example of the yogic thinking Curtis has been bilious about

[authfriend]

Question is, did Barry not read my exchange with
Curtis, so that he genuinely believes I said what
he claims below?

Or did he read it, and did his subconscious mind
translate it into what he wishes I'd said, so that
his *conscious* mind genuinely believes I said what
he claims below?

Or did he read it, notice that I didn't say what he
wishes I'd said, and decide to blatantly lie about
it in the hope that nobody else would have read what
I wrote and assume he was telling the truth?

We'll never know. But the third possibility seems
unlikely given how obvious the falsehoods are,
especially given the number of posts relating to
this exchange in which I reiterated, or someone else
quoted, my flat *denial* of Curtis's and Barry's
broken and needs fixing notion--precisely the
opposite, in other words, of what he claims below.

You just wouldn't think that someone who is compos
mentis would even *dream* he could get away with a
lie that preposterous.

Note also that the point I was challenging Curtis
on was not his feelings about himself, contrary
to what Barry claims below, but rather his
understanding of what spiritual teachers mean by
the term identification. Note also that I made
no assumption about lesserness with regard to
Curtis; I spoke only in terms of my own experience.

Whether he's lying or deluded, why is it that Barry
has such trouble accepting reality, such that he is
compelled, subconsciously or with full awareness, to
portray it as different than it obviously is?

Why does Barry mock solipsism when he goes to such
trouble *publicly* to attempt to create his own
reality, one that contrasts so starkly with the
reality that's on the record?

We'll never know.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote:

 I received this today from a friend. It is a letter 
 forwarded to my friend by a woman she met in India 
 recently that was sent to her daughter by the head 
 of a large yoga ashram in India (non-TM-related, as 
 far as I know) that her daughter had worked at for 
 and stayed at for several months, receiving zero pay 
 but room and board (sound familiar?). 
 
 The daughter was being expelled because she didn't 
 fit in. Her crime? Same as Curtis' here recently
 in conversations with our resident Sister Aloysius. 
 She challenged the yoga philosophy she was being 
 taught that was supposed to make her feel bad about 
 herself and in need of fixing. Worse, she did this 
 publicly, and once publicly and face-to-face with
 the ashram's Mother Superior, the author of this
 letter. The letter is how she reacted.
 
 Notice the same *assumption* of lesser-ness in the
 person being spoken down to. Notice the same put-
 down of her for not understanding. Notice how the
 girl's refusal to admit that she was broken and
 in need of fixing was perceived by the leaders of
 the ashram as a threat, and as depleting their
 energies.
 
 This is what happens when, in such an environment,
 you speak up about feeling OK about yourself as you
 are, and that you are not in need of fixing. 
 
 Do give this a read, and see if you don't perceive
 the same superior, Our way of seeing you as damaged
 and in need of fixing is right and your way of per-
 ceiving yourself as proud to be the person that you 
 are and not wishing to change is wrong elitist
 bullheadedness that you've been seeing here lately
 in our own self-appointed Mother Superior. 
 
 If nothing else, this letter should point out that
 such idiocy is not limited to Judy, or to the TM
 movement. It is rampant in spiritual groups that
 can only function when they've convinced the people
 within them that they need the group's help to fix
 what's wrong with them.
 
 **
 
 Dear Amanda,
  
 We have arrived at a junction where we need to clearly define the
 direction of our journey, both individually and collectively.
 As I got to know you better over the last three months, I realized
 that your special skill lies in communication...with those who
 understand your language and its contents. Your strength lies in 
being
 aggressive to stick by your beliefs. Your strength lies in being 
able
 to spring back after every `obstacle'. Your strength lies in always
 believing that you are right. Your strength lies in taking over a
 situation and completely dominating it. My dear...these are all
 excellent qualities for a city job in the corporate sector…I can see
 you excel in a PR firm.
 
 However, these are not the qualities of a person who can become a 
part
 of name of ashram at the farm. All the above qualities bring with
 them a vibration of competitiveness, of insecurity, of frustration 
and
 other negative emotions, of stress and related symptoms, which 
create
 disharmony in the environment that we live within.
 
 Mandy, this is not a personal criticism directed at you. Today, each
 one of us is what circumstances around us have shaped us to be. Some
 of us become aware of our flaws and try 

[FairfieldLife] Re: An example of the yogic thinking Curtis has been bilious about

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@...
wrote:

 On Feb 10, 2009, at 3:48 AM, TurquoiseB quoted a bitch as saying:
  Ps: I will be sending copies of this letter to Virginia and 
  Olivia so that you may discuss future course of action with 
  them. Also, I will need to remove the Amanda @ name of 
  ashram.com email id by the end of February. So I suggest 
  you start using your personal/akashneem id once again. Mandy, 
  this may be the beginning of another journey for you. We have 
  all gone through those journeys and continue to do so. It
  is a spiral movement which constantly moves upwards towards 
  becoming a better person. The harder the outer crust, the more 
  difficult it is to break through. This is the journey of the 
  Growth of Consciousness. Good luck my dear.
 
 What can one say?  A classic bitch. One doesn't have to go
 to an ashram to find this garbage. The condescension, the
 thinly veiled accusations, the meanness, the us-against-them
 mentality are familiar to many of us from situations right here.

Indeed. The fascinating thing is that the 
person who forwarded this letter to my friend,
who is a member in good standing of the ashram
in question, sent it to her as an example of how
compassionate, wise, and forgiving the author of
the letter was.

I'm serious.

Since I happen to know the young woman to whom
this letter was addressed (a lovely, non-mean,
non-egotistical to the point of shyness, well-
mannered person who IMO is more than *entitled*
to see herself as proud to be the person that 
she is and not wishing to change), and knowing
from emails what the problem the ashram saw
in her was, I saw this letter a different way.

The problem was that she chose to think for
herself. When teachings were presented to her,
teachings that called upon her to think of her-
self as not complete or not fulfilled or
not whole, she challenged those teachings.
She also challenged the wisdom of pursuing
enlightenment and one's personal fulfillment
as the highest priority in life, because she
was there out of a sense of wanting to spend
some time doing for others. That was more
important to her than thinking about enlight-
enment and the things that the women in the
ashram wanted her to think about and focus on.

Worse, she said so out loud. And right in the
faces of those who had become used to saying
things to the people under them and having them
accept these things as a given, without a word
of protest or questions of any kind. 

Mandy just doesn't DO without questions of any
kind. One of the things I like about her is
that if God himself appeared before her and told
her to do something she felt to be not quite
right, she'd get in His face, too. 

And good for her for doing that. 

My response to seeing this letter and hearing of
how her independence and comfort with being who she
was were treated at this ashram was to advise her
to go see the film Doubt. She managed to find
a pirated copy, and did. 

She wrote back thanking me for the suggestion,
indicating that she *more* than understood some
of the parallels I saw in the film to her situation,
and joking that Meryl Streep in the film looked
*exactly* like the person who had written the
letter.

I could have told her that just by reading it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: An example of the yogic thinking Curtis has been bilious about

[Sal Sunshine]

On Feb 10, 2009, at 9:10 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:


What can one say?  A classic bitch. One doesn't have to go
to an ashram to find this garbage. The condescension, the
thinly veiled accusations, the meanness, the us-against-them
mentality are familiar to many of us from situations right here.


Indeed. The fascinating thing is that the
person who forwarded this letter to my friend,
who is a member in good standing of the ashram
in question, sent it to her as an example of how
compassionate, wise, and forgiving the author of
the letter was.


While I'm not a psychologist, I would guess this letter
is filled with classic P/A crap.  And I would also submit
that the reason this person thinks of this as an example
of compassion and wisdom is that like so many, she's
cut loose from her emotions simply as a way to survive
in that community and probably others as well.

Got 2 movies for you, Barry, maybe you've already
seen them.  The first is Casanova, with Heath Ledger--
ought to be right up your alley. :)  The second is
The Savages, with Phillip  Seymour Hoffman.  Both
are great IMO.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: An example of the yogic thinking Curtis has been bilious about

[enlightened_dawn11]

even though it is far longer and more revealing a letter than is 
typically found in business, it doesn't look all that unusual to me. 
it basically says, we don't think you are the best fit for our 
organization, who we are, and what we are trying to achieve - here 
are some options for you; none of which include staying with us any 
longer.

i don't see or am not as sensitive to the condescention that you see 
here. any organization has a group ego, which will justify itself, 
whether it is these guys, FFL, the girl scouts, or IBM. anyone who 
thinks any organization is going to sever ties with one of its 
former members in a completely neutral way is being unrealistic, 
imo. 

the organization glues the egos of its members together because of a 
common purpose, and because of that common purpose, is able to 
achieve things greater than the sum of its parts. so if it chooses 
to expel one of its members, it will do so prejudicially, not 
neutrally, for the organization will always protect itself, at the 
expense of any of its former members.

i am NOT defending these people. i just don't see anything all that 
unusual in this letter, except that it voices group dynamics which 
are usually kept silent. having said all of that, i probably 
wouldn't want to hang out with Virginia, Sophie, Alice, Cecil, 
Michelle, Lysandre, Noemie, Julie, Isha, Sarah and of course 
Emmanuelle and Olivia.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... 
wrote:

 I received this today from a friend. It is a letter 
 forwarded to my friend by a woman she met in India 
 recently that was sent to her daughter by the head 
 of a large yoga ashram in India (non-TM-related, as 
 far as I know) that her daughter had worked at for 
 and stayed at for several months, receiving zero pay 
 but room and board (sound familiar?). 
 
 The daughter was being expelled because she didn't 
 fit in. Her crime? Same as Curtis' here recently
 in conversations with our resident Sister Aloysius. 
 She challenged the yoga philosophy she was being 
 taught that was supposed to make her feel bad about 
 herself and in need of fixing. Worse, she did this 
 publicly, and once publicly and face-to-face with
 the ashram's Mother Superior, the author of this
 letter. The letter is how she reacted.
 
 Notice the same *assumption* of lesser-ness in the
 person being spoken down to. Notice the same put-
 down of her for not understanding. Notice how the
 girl's refusal to admit that she was broken and
 in need of fixing was perceived by the leaders of
 the ashram as a threat, and as depleting their
 energies.
 
 This is what happens when, in such an environment,
 you speak up about feeling OK about yourself as you
 are, and that you are not in need of fixing. 
 
 Do give this a read, and see if you don't perceive
 the same superior, Our way of seeing you as damaged
 and in need of fixing is right and your way of per-
 ceiving yourself as proud to be the person that you 
 are and not wishing to change is wrong elitist
 bullheadedness that you've been seeing here lately
 in our own self-appointed Mother Superior. 
 
 If nothing else, this letter should point out that
 such idiocy is not limited to Judy, or to the TM
 movement. It is rampant in spiritual groups that
 can only function when they've convinced the people
 within them that they need the group's help to fix
 what's wrong with them.
 
 **
 
 Dear Amanda,
  
 We have arrived at a junction where we need to clearly define the
 direction of our journey, both individually and collectively.
 As I got to know you better over the last three months, I realized
 that your special skill lies in communication...with those who
 understand your language and its contents. Your strength lies in 
being
 aggressive to stick by your beliefs. Your strength lies in being 
able
 to spring back after every `obstacle'. Your strength lies in always
 believing that you are right. Your strength lies in taking over a
 situation and completely dominating it. My dear...these are all
 excellent qualities for a city job in the corporate sector…I can 
see
 you excel in a PR firm.
 
 However, these are not the qualities of a person who can become a 
part
 of name of ashram at the farm. All the above qualities bring with
 them a vibration of competitiveness, of insecurity, of frustration 
and
 other negative emotions, of stress and related symptoms, which 
create
 disharmony in the environment that we live within.
 
 Mandy, this is not a personal criticism directed at you. Today, 
each
 one of us is what circumstances around us have shaped us to be. 
Some
 of us become aware of our flaws and try to overcome them, others 
take
 much longer because they would rather see the faults around than
 within. My heart goes out to you my dear because I can see the 
agony
 that you are going through within (not being able to understand why
 you don't fit in) yet realizing that the best 

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amarnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


snip
 
 Amma was asked the question why it seems that some saintly people suffer
 from various lacks, while some unscrupulous people prosper? It's simply
 from what is stored up in the karmic bank. Some have plenty of funds to
 withdraw from, while others have debts to pay.
 
Now think about this--it doesn't make any sense.  You can't save up
nice and then be an asshole later, spending your nice credits.

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[Richard J. Williams]

Ruth wrote:
 You can't save up nice and then be 
 an asshole later, spending your nice 
 credits.

It's just the best way, Ruth - instead 
of being an asshole now and having no 
good karma in the future.

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[Patrick Gillam]

Here at Fairfield Life, though it's been years, 
Tom Traynor posted his experiences with emotional 
and physical problems in the state of enlightenment. 
As I recall, the thrust of his posts was that it's 
possible to have a sick child and a trashed body 
and still maintain an even keel. The usual evenness-
in-pleasure-and-pain report, in other words.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amarnath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 this is an email I sent to a friend
 
 
 
 
 
 Hi ..., Namaste,
 
 I just noticed that the herbs you received are Reuma-Art which I
 assume stands for rheumatoid arthritis.
 
 Well, it just so happens that Jim Dreaver, if I understood his story
 correctly in End Your Story, Begin Your Life, had and perhaps still
 has rheumatoid arthritis. He was relatively in very good health, he
 said, due many years of daily exercise, hiking, all sorts of spiritual
 practices, therapies, etc. But even after awakening, he still had
 rheumatoid arthritis in his hands and he opted for taking allopathic
 medication Vioxx. Then he had three strokes in close succession and it
 took him two years to recover almost fully.
 
 He now, joined a class action suit against Vioxx, a drug which was
 withdrawn due to recurring episodes of heart attacks and strokes.
 
 He states one of the reasons he urges others to awaken is that it
 definitely is a huge help in facing various challenges in life like
 illnesses, old age, financial lack, relationships, etc.   Dreaver's
 story is another example that dispels the myths we build up around
 enlightenment ~ perfect health, perfect wealth, perfect control of our
 life, perfect control of environment( it seems the  Maharishi Effect may
 not have worked as expected in Iowa floods ) etc.
 
 Amma was asked the question why it seems that some saintly people suffer
 from various lacks, while some unscrupulous people prosper? It's simply
 from what is stored up in the karmic bank. Some have plenty of funds to
 withdraw from, while others have debts to pay.
 
 So, when among millions of TMers, a few people become wealthy,
 successful, etc and then claim it's due to TM, don't believe it. And
 notice that that is the hype of almost all self-help approaches,
 including the Secret, etc.
 
 We allow ourselves to be deceived, not wanting to face our karmic
 situation whatever it is. Thank God, now, we have  Amma, Tolle, Katie
 and many advaita teachers( Jim Dreaver, James Braha, Sailor Bob, Francis
 Lucille, John Wheeler, Mooji, Stuart Schwartz, etc ) to tell us the
 truth: What is is God. ~ Ramana
 
 
 and of course the teachings of Nisargadatta, Robert Aadams, Shankara,
 
 
 Awakening, as I understand it, has to do with who we are, not with what
 we are experiencing. But as Jim Dreaver says, once we awaken, there is a
 definite huge difference how we handle our experiences seemingly good or
 bad.
 
 In any case, you might want to share this Reuma-Art  info with Jim
 Dreaver.
 
 Nice sharing with you.
 
 Love and Peace,
 
 anatol

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amarnath anatol_zinc@ wrote:
 
 
 snip
  
  Amma was asked the question why it seems that some saintly people suffer
  from various lacks, while some unscrupulous people prosper? It's simply
  from what is stored up in the karmic bank. Some have plenty of funds to
  withdraw from, while others have debts to pay.
  
 Now think about this--it doesn't make any sense.  You can't save up
 nice and then be an asshole later, spending your nice credits.


Of course you can, even in THIS lifetime.

It's called reputation.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[ruthsimplicity]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amarnath anatol_zinc@ wrote:
  
  
  snip
   
   Amma was asked the question why it seems that some saintly
people suffer
   from various lacks, while some unscrupulous people prosper? It's
simply
   from what is stored up in the karmic bank. Some have plenty of
funds to
   withdraw from, while others have debts to pay.
   
  Now think about this--it doesn't make any sense.  You can't save up
  nice and then be an asshole later, spending your nice credits.
 
 
 Of course you can, even in THIS lifetime.
 
 It's called reputation.
 
 
 Lawson

You certainly can in one lifetime.  I just don't buy that karma works
that way over multiple lifetimes.  But then again, I don't believe in
reincarnation so WTF and I talking about this for anyhow.

[FairfieldLife] Re: another example of dispelling myths about enlightenment

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, amarnath anatol_zinc@ wrote:
   
   
   snip

Amma was asked the question why it seems that some saintly
 people suffer
from various lacks, while some unscrupulous people prosper? It's
 simply
from what is stored up in the karmic bank. Some have plenty of
 funds to
withdraw from, while others have debts to pay.

   Now think about this--it doesn't make any sense.  You can't save up
   nice and then be an asshole later, spending your nice credits.
  
  
  Of course you can, even in THIS lifetime.
  
  It's called reputation.
  
  
  Lawson
 
 You certainly can in one lifetime.  I just don't buy that karma works
 that way over multiple lifetimes.  But then again, I don't believe in
 reincarnation so WTF and I talking about this for anyhow.


Me neither, but it would be pretty ick if the things we think of as good
or evil in this lifetime actually turned out to be the opposite as far as
karmic burdens go.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting example of occasional kinkkiness of Yoga-suutras, part 1

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 YS I 15
 
 dRSTaanushravika-viSaya-vitRSNasya vashii-kaara-
 saMjñaa vairaagyam.
 
 Taimni's translation (not necessarily one of the 
 best ones, but it'll do for now):
 
 The consciousness of perfect mastery (of desires)
 in the case of one who has ceased to crave for
 objects, seen or unseen, is /vairaagya/.
 
 YS I 16
 
 tat paraM puruSa-khyaater guNa-vaitRSNyam.
 
 That is the highest /vairaagya/ in which , on 
 account of the awareness of the /puruSa/, there
 is cessation of the least desire for the /guNas/.

This morning during TM I actually most of the time,
it seems to me, pondered on tat param in that
suutra, whether it can be read as a /bahu-vriihi/
or a /tat-puruSa/ or just simple nominal phrase,
or whatever. As a result of that pondering I decided
not to try to analyze it at all, because my take on
it seems not to be in line with those of most translators,
and Vyaasa's commentary suggests it must be a wrong one...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting example of occasional kinkkiness of Yoga-suutras, part 1

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
  YS I 15
  
  dRSTaanushravika-viSaya-vitRSNasya vashii-kaara-
  saMjñaa vairaagyam.
  
  Taimni's translation (not necessarily one of the 
  best ones, but it'll do for now):
  
  The consciousness of perfect mastery (of desires)
  in the case of one who has ceased to crave for
  objects, seen or unseen, is /vairaagya/.
  
  YS I 16
  
  tat paraM puruSa-khyaater guNa-vaitRSNyam.
  
  That is the highest /vairaagya/ in which , on 
  account of the awareness of the /puruSa/, there
  is cessation of the least desire for the /guNas/.
 
 This morning during TM I actually most of the time,
 it seems to me, pondered on tat param in that
 suutra, whether it can be read as a /bahu-vriihi/
 or a /tat-puruSa/ or just simple nominal phrase,
 or whatever. As a result of that pondering I decided
 not to try to analyze it at all, because my take on
 it seems not to be in line with those of most translators,
 and Vyaasa's commentary suggests it must be a wrong one...


There are at least as many valid interpretations of the Vedas as 
their are enlightened people...




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