subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Hello Fairfield"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi folks, I have just joined and looking to learn more about the 
whole 
 Maharishi thing from the folks who actually live in Fairfield.
 I just broke up with a woman who has been a hard core meditator 
for 25 
 yrs. I think she's been  totally brain washed by this movement and 
the 
 Maharishi. 
 
 I calmly said to her the other day I thought he (Maharishi) was a 
liar 
 a cheat and a fruad. I thought she was going to kill me. I have 
never 
 witnessed such anger rage or hatred in my life.


Keep an open mind.

There are fanatics and cultists who have taken the TM Program and 
made it what it isn't...perhaps your ex did that.

You will find those of us on this forum who do TM regularly yet are 
disgusted with the TMO.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  Hi folks, I have just joined and looking to learn more about the
  whole Maharishi thing from the folks who actually live in 
Fairfield.
  I just broke up with a woman who has been a hard core meditator 
for 
  25 yrs. I think she's been  totally brain washed by this 
movement and 
  the Maharishi.
  
  I calmly said to her the other day I thought he (Maharishi) was 
a 
  liar a cheat and a fruad. I thought she was going to kill me. I 
have 
  never witnessed such anger rage or hatred in my life.
 
 Sounds like you *wanted* to break up with her.  You
 must have had some idea that it would make her angry
 to just come out with it coldly like that.



Bill:

If you engage this person in debate you will soon learn yourself 
what your girlfriend felt when you thought she was going to kill you.



 
 How long had you been together?  Do you want to get
 *back* together, or just figure out what happened?
 
 (I know people who go ballistic if you say George W.
 Bush is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread Ingegerd

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 This is really so true, Rick, and despite my humorous (I think) 
 response it's exactly the way I feel as well.  We talk about MMY 
more 
 than anyone else because he's been more important in our lives 
than 
 most other people.

That is right. He was the most important in our lives - and that is 
sad. The most important should be spiritual development. Years ago, 
before I was kicked out of the TMO, a nasty thought came up,that 
for further development you have to let go the attachment for the 
Master also. I denied it then - but it seems that it was the right 
thing for me.
Ingegerd
 
 Sal
 
 On Aug 11, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Rick Archer wrote:
 
  So yes, Maharishi is a liar. He has also spoken a lot of truth. 
He's a 
  cheat, but he has generously given far more than the average 
person. 
  He's a fraud, but judging from the benefits many have derived 
from his 
  teachings, he's the real deal. And also, of course, I'm all 
those 
  things too. And you are. We all possess all qualities in various 
  measures and degrees of manifestation.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi folks, I have just joined and looking to learn more about the 
whole 
 Maharishi thing from the folks who actually live in Fairfield.
 I just broke up with a woman who has been a hard core meditator for 
25 
 yrs. I think she's been  totally brain washed by this movement and 
the 
 Maharishi. 
 
 I calmly said to her the other day I thought he (Maharishi) was a 
liar 
 a cheat and a fruad. I thought she was going to kill me. I have never 
 witnessed such anger rage or hatred in my life.


Well...those might've been her suppressed thoughts, too...  :0





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

Funny you should say that,,,(that it might be her supressed thoughts 
too. Because there is this part of me that thinks the very same.

I thought if I through as much unconditional love her way as humanly 
possible I could reach her and I thought I was. She would say things 
like ,,,This is the first time in my life that I have been truly 
happy when we had done something together. Or we would have a perfect 
weekend together,,,then BAM out of the blue it would be Maharishi this 
and Maharishi that.

It was as if a inner conflict was playing tug of war with her.

I know she had a horrible childhood and turmoil in her early adult 
life led to searching for acceptence and I think she thought she found 
it in this group. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
  unclewas@ wrote:
  
   Hi folks, I have just joined and looking to learn more about the
   whole Maharishi thing from the folks who actually live in 
 Fairfield.
   I just broke up with a woman who has been a hard core meditator 
 for 
   25 yrs. I think she's been  totally brain washed by this 
 movement and 
   the Maharishi.
   
   I calmly said to her the other day I thought he (Maharishi) was 
 a 
   liar a cheat and a fruad. I thought she was going to kill me. I 
 have 
   never witnessed such anger rage or hatred in my life.
  
  Sounds like you *wanted* to break up with her.  You
  must have had some idea that it would make her angry
  to just come out with it coldly like that.
 
 Bill:
 
 If you engage this person in debate you will soon learn yourself 
 what your girlfriend felt when you thought she was going to kill 
 you.

On the other hand, Bill, if you listen to Shemp,
you might actually get the idea that a debate is
involved when it isn't.



  How long had you been together?  Do you want to get
  *back* together, or just figure out what happened?
  
  (I know people who go ballistic if you say George W.
  Bush is a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced 
she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One 
things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.

I used that phase often during my TM career. Its based on the assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB to question that assumption.

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you Sal.
 
 There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
 many times things like.
 
 I wouldn't be alive without it.
 
 I can't get through the day without it.
 
 It is the most important thing in my life.
 
 I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
 
 Meditation is the answer to everything.
 
 She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
 increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
 her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost 
 like a drug addict going through withdrawls.

What was she like before she learned TM?

 Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
 site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
 seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
 says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain washed 
 and programmed.

How can you tell the difference between someone
who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
somebody who is so excited by something they've
just learned they can't stop talking about it?

 I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
 governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results 
 of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard 
 core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple 
 relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.

Just for the record, the German study is a
complete crock.  If you're interested to know
more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.

For that matter, practically everything you'll
find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
other.  Not a reliable source of information on
TM.

 I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
 first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and then 
 slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the yogic flying 
 er levitating,,,er hopping.

Most people just learn TM and go away and
practice it on their own without going any
further or becoming involved in the TM
organization.

It's also entirely possible to learn the 
TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
organization without getting into a cultlike
relationship with it.

Some people seem to need to establish a
cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
to discourage that.

 When I first started dating me

Freudian slip??

 she was absolutely convinced 
 she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
 upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed.
 One things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.

I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
of Yogic Flying.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
  
 I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the
 assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth.

Or, that he has a handle on the truth about the
nature and mechanics of consciousness.

Absolute Truth is often a weasel phrase in this
context designed to load the argument.

 The materials in
 http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB to 
 question that assumption.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread Peter

How you guys could maintain a relationship is beyond
me. She's a hardcore Ru' and your a non-meditator
(very low cosmic status). How long did you guys go out
together?

--- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Thank you Sal.
 
 There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing. 
 She told me 
 many times things like.
 
 I wouldn't be alive without it.
 
 I can't get through the day without it.
 
 It is the most important thing in my life.
 
 I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
 
 Meditation is the answer to everything.
 
 She admits to being addicted to it and I have
 witnessed the 
 increased stress levels and nervousness if she
 doesn't have 
 her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short
 tempered. Almost 
 like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
 
 Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once,
 at Maharishi 
 site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car
 ride home it 
 seemed like she was spaced out and everything was
 ,,,Maharishi 
 says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if
 totally brain washed 
 and programmed.
 
 I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former
 TM teachers, 
 governors etc and a couple sites including one
 posting the results 
 of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of
 long term hard 
 core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like
 the simple 
 relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
 
 I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his
 
 first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you
 out,,,and then 
 slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the
 yogic flying 
 er levitating,,,er hopping.
 
 When I first started dating me she was absolutely
 convinced 
 she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening
 to the floor 
 upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down
 on the bed. One 
 things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle
 development.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 7:51 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
  
 I used that phase often during my TM career. Its based on the
 assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth.

Or, that he has a handle on the truth about the
nature and mechanics of consciousness.

Absolute Truth is often a weasel phrase in this
context designed to load the argument.

Another way of putting it would be that he does have a handle on Absolute Truth, but that that doesnt qualify him as an authority on all matters of relative truth.


__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 7:51 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com
  , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at unclewas@ wrote:

When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the
floor upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down 
on the bed. One things for certain,,,she's got great thigh 
muscle development.

   I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the
   assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth.
  
  Or, that he has a handle on the truth about the
  nature and mechanics of consciousness.
  
  Absolute Truth is often a weasel phrase in this
  context designed to load the argument.
  
 Another way of putting it would be that he does have a handle on
 Absolute Truth, but that that doesn¹t qualify him as an authority 
 on all matters of relative truth.

I'm not sure what having a handle on Absolute Truth
even means, actually.

I'd say instead that having a handle on the truth about
the nature and mechanics of consciousness doesn't qualify
him as an authority on all matters of relative truth.

How does any of this apply to a TM-Sidhis practitioner
referring to hopping as levitation while being aware
that hopping isn't actually levitating in the standard
sense of the term?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/12/06 7:51 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
 40yahoogroups.com
   , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
   
on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at unclewas@ wrote:
 
 When I first started dating me she was absolutely 
convinced
 she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the
 floor upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and 
down 
 on the bed. One things for certain,,,she's got great 
thigh 
 muscle development.
 
I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on 
the
assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth.
   
   Or, that he has a handle on the truth about the
   nature and mechanics of consciousness.
   
   Absolute Truth is often a weasel phrase in this
   context designed to load the argument.
   
  Another way of putting it would be that he does have a handle on
  Absolute Truth, but that that doesn¹t qualify him as an authority 
  on all matters of relative truth.
 
 I'm not sure what having a handle on Absolute Truth
 even means, actually.
 
 I'd say instead that having a handle on the truth about
 the nature and mechanics of consciousness doesn't qualify
 him as an authority on all matters of relative truth.
 
 How does any of this apply to a TM-Sidhis practitioner
 referring to hopping as levitation while being aware
 that hopping isn't actually levitating in the standard
 sense of the term?

P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
was a weasel phrase.  It had nothing to do with
the particular issue being discussed, it was just
thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
ridiculous.









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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 8:27 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

How does any of this apply to a TM-Sidhis practitioner
referring to hopping as levitation while being aware
that hopping isn't actually levitating in the standard
sense of the term?

Maharishi sez its levitation. On the Merv Griffin show and elsewhere, he refers to hopping as being something that verifies meditators command over the laws of nature.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread Peter



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Another way of putting it would be that he does have
 a handle on Absolute
 Truth, but that that doesn¹t qualify him as an
 authority on all matters of
 relative truth.

 And this is when the cult-like quality enters
in the TMO. People handover their authority over their
own experience to another (MMY/TMO) under the
erroneous assumption that there is a perfect or
objectively correct way to live their life. This is
an infantile wish of the perfect parent being
projected and acted out. The TMO, at least in my
experience in the USA, strongly encourages this, but
ironically MMY doesn't engage in this on a one-to-one
level. When people ask MMY what they should do in a
particular situation many times he'll ask what they
think they should do and then he'll say, Do that. 
This lack of authority over ones own life is a deep,
deep attachment that so many hardcore Ru's have. I see
MMY as doing his best to break it with all the crazy
nonesese over the last 20 years. 





 
 


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 8:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
was a weasel phrase. It had nothing to do with
the particular issue being discussed, it was just
thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
ridiculous.

But I believe that is the underlying assumption of those who use the phrase Maharishi says. That phrase carries a lot more weight than I say or George Bush (etc.) says. The assumption is that because Maharishi is enlightened, he knows the truth about anything he puts his attention on, whether politics, economics, agriculture, etc. Its like the Pope says for a devout Catholic. He is Gods representative, so its almost like saying God says.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness


 That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both passive 
and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs



 How can you tell the difference between someone
 who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
 somebody who is so excited by something they've
 just learned they can't stop talking about it?

Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced I 
speak in terms of I and we but in the case in point it was 
all Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost absence 
of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi existed,,,only his 
word, his thoughts, his ideals,,,truely frightening that one person, 
a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of 
us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us could be looked 
upon as different. 

But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.
 
 Just for the record, the German study is a
 complete crock.  If you're interested to know
 more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
 alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.

Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock. Well I don't think 
the German courts share you view. Can you tell me who set up and who 
sponsored the site you have recommended?
 
 For that matter, practically everything you'll
 find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
 other.  Not a reliable source of information on
 TM.

I have been to far more sites then Trancenet but thank you for your 
advice.
 
 Most people just learn TM and go away and
 practice it on their own without going any
 further or becoming involved in the TM
 organization.
 
 It's also entirely possible to learn the 
 TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
 organization without getting into a cultlike
 relationship with it.
 
 Some people seem to need to establish a
 cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
 unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
 to discourage that.

Absolutely and I couldn't agree more with these statements. In fact 
I meditate myself,,,regularly. But its not just the cult like 
mentality referring to the TMO it is also the worshipping of a 
man, that man being Maharishi. He's just a man who has made billions 
selling a customised version of Hinduism. And there's nothing wrong 
with that. Just be honest and call it what it is. 
 
  When I first started dating me
 
 Freudian slip?? 

More like a reality check,,,in the final analysis I was dating 
myself. Her mind was no where to be found, then again neither was 
her heart.

 
 I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
 levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
 of Yogic Flying.

Wanna bet!!!







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Bill, I'd say you're lucky the relationship is over--chalk it up to a 
learning experience.

Many of us felt that way at some point (not the extreme anger part, but 
definitely the protective of all things having to do with MMY part.  
She'll move on too, I predict, when she realizes the TMO no longer fits 
her fantasies. Doesn't mean she'll give up all things TM, just that the 
illusion stage will be over.

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons wrote:

 Thank you Sal.

 There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me
 many times things like.

 I wouldn't be alive without it.

 I can't get through the day without it.

 It is the most important thing in my life.

 I don't want to work I just want to meditate.

 Meditation is the answer to everything.

 She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the
 increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have
 her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost
 like a drug addict going through withdrawls.

 Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi
 site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it
 seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi
 says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain washed
 and programmed.

 I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers,
 governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results
 of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard
 core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple
 relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread Peter



--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
  was a weasel phrase.  It had nothing to do with
  the particular issue being discussed, it was just
  thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
  ridiculous.
  
 But I believe that is the underlying assumption of
 those who use the phrase
 ³Maharishi says.² That phrase carries a lot more
 weight than ³I say² or
 ³George Bush (etc.) says.² The assumption is that
 because Maharishi is
 enlightened, he knows the truth about anything he
 puts his attention on,
 whether politics, economics, agriculture, etc. It¹s
 like ³the Pope says² for
 a devout Catholic. He is God¹s representative, so
 it¹s almost like saying
 ³God says.²

Again, an infantile wish of people with bad parents
still fixated on internalizing the perfect other.
You can talk to an otherwise perfectly intelligent,
rational person about many things but once you hit
their perfect mommy/daddy zone they go insane and
refuse any rational discourse in order to cling to the
belief that MMY, Bush, the Pope,etc., is, essentially,
perfect.




 
 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:27 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  How does any of this apply to a TM-Sidhis practitioner
  referring to hopping as levitation while being aware
  that hopping isn't actually levitating in the standard
  sense of the term?
  
 ³Maharishi sez² it¹s levitation. On the Merv Griffin show and
 elsewhere, he refers to hopping as being something that verifies 
 meditators¹ command over the laws of nature.

In the first place, that falls into the handle on
the nature and mechanics of consciousness category,
not the Absolute Truth category.

In the second place, you ignored the context, which
I included in the while being aware part of my
question.

Bill had claimed his former GF was absolutely
convinced she was levitating, which makes her
sound ipso facto delusional, believing she was
hovering in the air when she in fact was only
hopping.

Believing, on the other hand, that hopping with
the Yogic Flying sutra verifies that one has
command over the laws of nature is not *ipso
facto* delusional, however unlikely one thinks
such a belief may be.  It's possible (if
unfalsifiable) that the nature and mechanics of
consciousness are such that the mechanism of
hopping with the Yogic Flying sutra involves
some degree of control over the law of gravity.

To call such a belief delusional would therefore
be just an opinion, whereas the conviction that
one is hovering when one is actually only hopping
would be delusional as a matter of fact.

This is a subtle but by no means insignificant
distinction; to deliberately blur it constitutes
an attempt to load the argument, as I said to
start with.

Were you ever convinced you were actually hovering
in the air when you were only hopping?  Or were
you simply using the term levitate to refer to
the immediate physical effects of practicing the
Yogic Flying sutra, i.e., hopping?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
  was a weasel phrase.  It had nothing to do with
  the particular issue being discussed, it was just
  thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
  ridiculous.
  
 But I believe that is the underlying assumption of those who use
 the phrase ³Maharishi says.² That phrase carries a lot more weight 
 than ³I say² or ³George Bush (etc.) says.² The assumption is that 
 because Maharishi is enlightened, he knows the truth about anything 
 he puts his attention on, whether politics, economics, agriculture, 
 etc. It¹s like ³the Pope says² for a devout Catholic. He is God¹s 
 representative, so it¹s almost like saying ³God says.²

Again you're avoiding the context.

What does this have to do with someone calling hopping
levitation while being fully aware that what they're
doing is not levitation in the standard sense of the
term, i.e., floating in the air?

I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
only hopping--are you?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both 
 passive and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs

Do you ever defend things you believe in when others
criticize them?  Are you being defensive when you do
that?

  How can you tell the difference between someone
  who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
  somebody who is so excited by something they've
  just learned they can't stop talking about it?
 
 Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced I 
 speak in terms of I and we but in the case in point it was 
 all Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost 
 absence of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi 
 existed,,,only his word, his thoughts, his ideals

OK, that's a reasonable criterion.  I'm not sure it's
*definitive*, but it's a place to start.

,,,truely 
 frightening that one person, a simple man who bleeds like the rest
 of us,,,eats like the rest of us and excretes bodily wastes like 
 the rest of us could be looked upon as different.

Unless there are differences that don't have to do
with physical functions.

 But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
 Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
 pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
 hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
 like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
 picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.

Don't know about Huntsville, but there are TM centers
that are a lot more pleasant.

  Just for the record, the German study is a
  complete crock.  If you're interested to know
  more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
  alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
 
 Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock.

It was neither a government study nor impartial.
I wonder where you got the impression that it was?

 Well I don't think the German courts share you view.

Actually, the lower court that ruled on the initial
lawsuit brought by TM found the following:

The documentary evidence submitted by the Plaintiffs and by the 
Defendant does not demonstrate that individuals who are actively 
involved in the TM movement, or who meditate only according to 
the TM technique, are more susceptible to mental illness than 
the average population.   

The Documentation About the Effects of Youth Religion on Minors 
in Specific Cases prepared by the Action for Mental and 
Psychic Freedom, and the Documentation on Transcendental 
Meditation, as well as the study Differential Effects of the 
Practice of Transcendental Meditation prepared by the Institute 
for Youth and Society, headquartered in Bensheim, are not based 
on a scientific sampling.  These studies dealt only with   
isolated cases, and only with persons who are hostile to the 
movement were interviewed. 

Moreover, in well over half of the cases studied, the persons 
interviewed had no direct knowledge [of the TM technique or 
organization], since the information was obtained from third 
parties, i.e., parents or spouses, without the presence of 
those who had been directly involved. 

These studies were prepared by religious-ideological opponents 
of the TM movement, and are obviously biased. 

Note: the Institute for Youth and Society is not
an agency of the German government.  TM brought the
lawsuit against the government to prevent it from
citing the findings of the study from this institute
because it was so absurdly unscientific and biased.

The government appealed the lower court's ruling in
favor of TM; and the decisions in the higher courts
against TM's suit were made on jurisdictional grounds.
The lower court was the only one to rule on whether
the study itself was valid.

Did you find that information wherever you read
about the German study?

Here's a link to a detailed post on exactly what
was involved in the court case (from the Google 
Group alt.meditation.transcendental):

http://tinyurl.com/ovhah

 Can you tell me who set up and who 
 sponsored the site you have recommended?

alt.meditation.transcendental is a Usenet newsgroup
that's been around since 1994.  Google Groups
maintains the Usenet archives and provides an
interface for participation in the newsgroups via
the Web.

alt.m.t was initially started by TMers (not the TMO,
by the way), but it was quickly invaded by TM critics.
What you'll find there if you do a search for German
study is extensive debate between supporters and
critics of TM (prominently including the participation
of John Knapp, the then-proprietor of the anti-TM site
Trancenet).

  For that matter, practically everything you'll
  find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
  other.  Not a reliable source of information on
  TM.
 
 I have been to far more sites then

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

Just over two years Peter.

A great woman, I adored her and still do. When she was peaceful she 
was like an angel. But then out of nowhere. Actually it was usually a 
day or two after we had done something really nice together,,,that 
this demon side appearred and all hell would break loose. It was as if 
a part of her couldn't handle being happy she needed to return to 
chaos.

She would reffer to her meditation experiencing as achieving comsic 
orgasms,,,I thought to myself oh great what is this a form of mental 
masterbation.

I actually observed her once while she was meditating. At age 50th in 
my eyes she's the most beautiful woman in the world. But on that 
afternoon while in her trance her face look distorted hagard and old. 
It was almost frightening and it left me wondering just how much joy 
and bliss could she have possibly be feeling.

I've been in emergency services for 30 years Peter and have a great 
deal of patience with people and so I really tried to be patient with 
her but finally and again out of the blue she announced Maharishi 
says we need to be celibate in order to channel all our energies to 
our higher spiritual intellect. 

That's when I finally had even enough and said something like,,,Oh 
sure Maharishi says everyone should be celibate but himreffering 
to a years ago comment by the beatles calling him a lecherous 
womaniser. I know it was the wrong thing to say and the conversation 
went down hill from there to include He's a liar a cheat and a fraud.
Thought I was going to have to call 911 myself for backup.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

2006-08-12 Thread curtisdeltablues

Bill's next two first dates:

Bill  So what do you think about these yogic flyers for world peace I
saw in the paper?

Date  Oh my God I am a yogic flyer, I was on that course and it
filled me with bliss!

Bill Waiter, check please. (sound of tires squealing all the way out
of the parking lot.)

Next women:

Bill  So what do you think about these yogic flyers for world peace I
saw in the paper?

Date Yogurt what?

Bill Oh never mind, please tell me about where you grew up?




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both passive 
 and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs
 
 
 
  How can you tell the difference between someone
  who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
  somebody who is so excited by something they've
  just learned they can't stop talking about it?
 
 Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced I 
 speak in terms of I and we but in the case in point it was 
 all Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost absence 
 of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi existed,,,only his 
 word, his thoughts, his ideals,,,truely frightening that one person, 
 a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of 
 us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us could be looked 
 upon as different. 
 
 But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
 Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
 pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
 hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
 like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
 picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.
  
  Just for the record, the German study is a
  complete crock.  If you're interested to know
  more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
  alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
 
 Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock. Well I don't think 
 the German courts share you view. Can you tell me who set up and who 
 sponsored the site you have recommended?
  
  For that matter, practically everything you'll
  find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
  other.  Not a reliable source of information on
  TM.
 
 I have been to far more sites then Trancenet but thank you for your 
 advice.
  
  Most people just learn TM and go away and
  practice it on their own without going any
  further or becoming involved in the TM
  organization.
  
  It's also entirely possible to learn the 
  TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
  organization without getting into a cultlike
  relationship with it.
  
  Some people seem to need to establish a
  cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
  unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
  to discourage that.
 
 Absolutely and I couldn't agree more with these statements. In fact 
 I meditate myself,,,regularly. But its not just the cult like 
 mentality referring to the TMO it is also the worshipping of a 
 man, that man being Maharishi. He's just a man who has made billions 
 selling a customised version of Hinduism. And there's nothing wrong 
 with that. Just be honest and call it what it is. 
  
   When I first started dating me
  
  Freudian slip?? 
 
 More like a reality check,,,in the final analysis I was dating 
 myself. Her mind was no where to be found, then again neither was 
 her heart.
 
  
  I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
  levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
  of Yogic Flying.
 
 Wanna bet!!!
 







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

Bill,
Are you sure she doesn't have some other problems--like depression or 
bipolarism?  Sounds like there is something more going on than just 
defending MMY.  If so, it wouldn't be all that unusual--many of us 
looked to TM as a cure-all, until it became obvious it wasn't.  And 
those quick flashes of anger, seemingly out of nowhere, are something I 
have learned to avoid.  I find them scary.

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Bill (William)Simmons wrote:

 A great woman, I adored her and still do. When she was peaceful she
 was like an angel. But then out of nowhere. Actually it was usually a
 day or two after we had done something really nice together,,,that
 this demon side appearred and all hell would break loose. It was as if
 a part of her couldn't handle being happy she needed to return to
 chaos.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

But that's just it--you weren't supposed to have to believe in 
anything when you started TM (as it wasn't a religion--remember?). You 
didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was practice 
it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or anything else.

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 9:49 AM, authfriend wrote:

 Do you ever defend things you believe in when others
 criticize them?  Are you being defensive when you do
 that?



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thank you Sal.
 
 There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
 many times things like.
 
 I wouldn't be alive without it.
 
 I can't get through the day without it.
 
 It is the most important thing in my life.
 
 I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
 
 Meditation is the answer to everything.
 
 She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
 increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
 her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost 
 like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
 
 Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
 site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
 seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
 says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain 
washed 
 and programmed.
 
 I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
 governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results 
 of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard 
 core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple 
 relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
 
 I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
 first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and 
then 
 slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the yogic flying 
 er levitating,,,er hopping.
 
 When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced 
 she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
 upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. 
One 
 things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.



Boy, she must have been very beautiful or had a very charming 
personality for you to stand her for so long.

How could you put up with all of that?

For the record, very few TMers that I know were like that.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Funny you should say that,,,(that it might be her supressed 
thoughts 
 too. Because there is this part of me that thinks the very same.
 
 I thought if I through as much unconditional love her way as 
humanly 
 possible I could reach her and I thought I was. She would say 
things 
 like ,,,This is the first time in my life that I have been truly 
 happy when we had done something together. Or we would have a 
perfect 
 weekend together,,,then BAM out of the blue it would be Maharishi 
this 
 and Maharishi that.
 
 It was as if a inner conflict was playing tug of war with her.
 
 I know she had a horrible childhood and turmoil in her early adult 
 life



This may be the reason why she was the way she was.  Don't project 
too much on the TMO as being responsible...I think she came with 
alot of baggage.



 led to searching for acceptence and I think she thought she found 
 it in this group.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

Sal,,,I'm quite certain of it. 

I think the meditation is her own personal crutch or a happy pill.

Just pop and hop and she feels better temporarily. But it doesn't 
address the underlying root causes/demons etc. 

But because Maharishi says just meditate more and all your 
problems will go away. She appears totally convinced that more money 
on more time and more meditation will bring her the peace she wants.


Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which we 
do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS that 
tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or meditation 
or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to 
enlightment.

So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation and 
give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one reach 
true enlightment.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. 
One
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
  
 I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the 
assumption
 that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in
 http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB 
to question
 that assumption.


It should if you were a cult member.

Rick, you were involved with the TMO and MMY way, way outside the 
orbit of being a mere practitioner of the TM Program.  You 
embraced something that had a guru, an organisation that had a 
belief system and an entirely separate and different way of life 
than an ordinary American.

You weren't forced into it and you weren't required to partake of it.

In fact, you were told in the first 5 minutes of the Introductory 
Lecture -- your first official exposure to the TMO -- that it wasn't 
a philosophy or a religion yet you went right ahead and partook of 
that by becoming a TM teacher and living amongst the celibates and 
inner circle of MMY for many, many years.

So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and MMY 
but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went 
into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program.  You 
can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the horrible 
things that the Movement turned out to be.

For, to use your words above, the most hardcore TBer to now 
question his assumptions by looking at the materials you cite, is a 
bit ingenious.  A TBer would have to be a complete idiot to now feel 
shock at all these revelations when from Day One of anyone's 
involvement in the TMO or TMO Inner Circle it was obvious that it 
was off the program.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

I like your reasoning Sal!!!


ItsasimplerelaxationtechniqueWAS


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 But that's just it--you weren't supposed to have to believe in 
 anything when you started TM (as it wasn't a religion--remember?). 
You 
 didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was 
practice 
 it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or anything 
else.
 
 Sal
 
 
 On Aug 12, 2006, at 9:49 AM, authfriend wrote:
 
  Do you ever defend things you believe in when others
  criticize them?  Are you being defensive when you do
  that?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  Thank you Sal.
  
  There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
  many times things like.
  
  I wouldn't be alive without it.
  
  I can't get through the day without it.
  
  It is the most important thing in my life.
  
  I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
  
  Meditation is the answer to everything.
  
  She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
  increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
  her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. 
Almost 
  like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
 
 What was she like before she learned TM?
 
  Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
  site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
  seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
  says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain 
washed 
  and programmed.
 
 How can you tell the difference between someone
 who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
 somebody who is so excited by something they've
 just learned they can't stop talking about it?
 
  I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
  governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the 
results 
  of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term 
hard 
  core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple 
  relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
 
 Just for the record, the German study is a
 complete crock.  If you're interested to know
 more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
 alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
 
 For that matter, practically everything you'll
 find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
 other.  Not a reliable source of information on
 TM.
 
  I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
  first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and 
then 
  slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the yogic 
flying 
  er levitating,,,er hopping.
 
 Most people just learn TM and go away and
 practice it on their own without going any
 further or becoming involved in the TM
 organization.
 
 It's also entirely possible to learn the 
 TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
 organization without getting into a cultlike
 relationship with it.
 
 Some people seem to need to establish a
 cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
 unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
 to discourage that.



Well said.

And the above three paragraphs sums up how people like this person's 
girlfriend get involved in what I can only call the TM Cult.

Which, as Judy points out, really doesn't have anything to do with 
TM.  Indeed, I would say it's an aberration that attracts the wrong 
kind of people and because it is NOT discouraged by the TMO, becomes 
a haven for people who don't have a good grip on reality.

And that's why the TMO has become a cult.

If it wasn't the people around MMY would have protested in no 
uncertain terms all the off the program directions he has taken 
since about 1977.



 
  When I first started dating me
 
 Freudian slip??
 
  she was absolutely convinced 
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed.
  One things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle 
development.
 
 I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
 levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
 of Yogic Flying.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 How you guys could maintain a relationship is beyond
 me. She's a hardcore Ru' and your a non-meditator
 (very low cosmic status). How long did you guys go out
 together?


Yeah, it must have been a horrible and trying time to be with this 
person for any reasonable length of time.




 
 --- Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  Thank you Sal.
  
  There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing. 
  She told me 
  many times things like.
  
  I wouldn't be alive without it.
  
  I can't get through the day without it.
  
  It is the most important thing in my life.
  
  I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
  
  Meditation is the answer to everything.
  
  She admits to being addicted to it and I have
  witnessed the 
  increased stress levels and nervousness if she
  doesn't have 
  her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short
  tempered. Almost 
  like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
  
  Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once,
  at Maharishi 
  site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car
  ride home it 
  seemed like she was spaced out and everything was
  ,,,Maharishi 
  says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if
  totally brain washed 
  and programmed.
  
  I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former
  TM teachers, 
  governors etc and a couple sites including one
  posting the results 
  of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of
  long term hard 
  core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like
  the simple 
  relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
  
  I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his
  
  first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you
  out,,,and then 
  slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the
  yogic flying 
  er levitating,,,er hopping.
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely
  convinced 
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening
  to the floor 
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down
  on the bed. One 
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle
  development.
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

Very good points about needs, Bill, and how we all need to overcome 
them--ha, ha.

I personally started TM for the relaxation benefits it claimed you'd 
feel, and that is still why I continue the practice.  The concept of 
enlightenment, whatever it might mean to others, is so vague as to be 
meaningless IMO, and as such has never had much of a  place in my world 
view  and hence stay out of all discussions in which it comes up. (Not 
to mention the fact that, probably because of its vagueness, I find 
most discussions of it kind of boring.  But others obviously don't, so 
discuss away! :) )

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Bill (William)Simmons wrote:

 Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which we
 do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS that
 tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or meditation
 or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to
 enlightment.

 So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation and
 give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one reach
 true enlightment.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Just over two years Peter.
 
 A great woman, I adored her and still do. When she was peaceful she 
 was like an angel. But then out of nowhere. Actually it was usually 
a 
 day or two after we had done something really nice together,,,that 
 this demon side appearred and all hell would break loose. It was as 
if 
 a part of her couldn't handle being happy she needed to return to 
 chaos.
 
 She would reffer to her meditation experiencing as achieving comsic 
 orgasms,,,I thought to myself oh great what is this a form of 
 mental masterbation.
 
 I actually observed her once while she was meditating. At age 50th
 in my eyes she's the most beautiful woman in the world. But on that 
 afternoon while in her trance her face look distorted hagard and 
 old. It was almost frightening and it left me wondering just how 
 much joy and bliss could she have possibly be feeling.

(I can't resist observing that people's faces
tend to get *very* distorted when they're in the
middle of an orgasm...)

What MMY teaches, incidentally, is that experiences
during meditation, bad or good, are not particularly
important.  What's important is the effects in daily
life.

If your GF was meditating only for the experiences
during practice, she may actually not have been
meditating correctly--and that can have *negative*
effects in daily life.

 I've been in emergency services for 30 years Peter and have a great 
 deal of patience with people and so I really tried to be patient 
 with her but finally and again out of the blue she a
 announced Maharishi says we need to be celibate in order to 
 channel all our energies to our higher spiritual intellect.

Uh-oh...

 That's when I finally had even enough and said something like,,,Oh 
 sure Maharishi says everyone should be celibate but 
 himreffering to a years ago comment by the beatles calling him 
 a lecherous womaniser. I know it was the wrong thing to say and the 
 conversation went down hill from there to include He's a liar a 
 cheat and a fraud. Thought I was going to have to call 911 myself 
 for backup.

Look, not to lay blame here, but did you ever consider
the possibility that there were some problems with your
sexual relationship, that what she was telling you was
the equivalent of Not now, dear, I have a headache?

I can imagine that if I had been you, I'd have felt
felt insulted and demeaned and might have struck back
in anger.

What I'm trying to get at is that it sounds to me as
though you're assigning *all* the problems with your
relationship to her commitment to TM and MMY, when in
fact there's a mixture of *different* issues, not all
of them necessarily hers.

From your description of her, though, it also sounds to
me as though her issues are pretty extreme, and that
she needs some professional help.  I doubt you'd be
likely to convince her she needs that help in any case,
but almost *certainly* not as long as you hold onto
your unrelievedly negative views of TM.

You're the more rational party at this point.  If you
really strongly want to be able to help her, it seems
to me, you need to acquire a more balanced view of TM
so you have a better idea of where she's coming from.
I don't have a lot of hope that you'll be successful,
but your coming to this forum suggests you still have
some motivation, that you're unwilling to just let it
end here.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

 
 
 Boy, she must have been very beautiful or had a very charming 
 personality for you to stand her for so long.

Ah she surely was. In my eyes the most beautiful woman in the world. I 
would get occassional glimpses of the free spirit within her. Just 
long nough to keep me coming back for more. 
 
 How could you put up with all of that?

Love for her spirit and hope she would frre herself from the addiction.
 
 For the record, very few TMers that I know were like that.

I know,,,I've met several of her TM friends, with few exceptions (like 
any group in life) most were sweet and kind.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 8:42 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:groups%40searchsummit.com  wrote:

 Another way of putting it would be that he does have
 a handle on Absolute
 Truth, but that that doesnt qualify him as an
 authority on all matters of
 relative truth.

And this is when the cult-like quality enters
in the TMO. People handover their authority over their
own experience to another (MMY/TMO) under the
erroneous assumption that there is a perfect or
objectively correct way to live their life. This is
an infantile wish of the perfect parent being
projected and acted out. The TMO, at least in my
experience in the USA, strongly encourages this, but
ironically MMY doesn't engage in this on a one-to-one
level. When people ask MMY what they should do in a
particular situation many times he'll ask what they
think they should do and then he'll say, Do that. 

That happened to me once. I asked MMY whether I should marry my girlfriend and handed him a photo of her. He looked at it for a long time without saying anything. Finally I said, Perhaps I should decide, and he said, Yes, you should decide. Amma often gives personal advice, quite astute IMO, but people get carried away with it. I was in the darshan line this summer and the guy in front of me held a note that read, Amma, should so-and-so (someones name) continue to pursue legal action against her uncles?

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 But that's just it--you weren't supposed to have to believe in 
 anything when you started TM (as it wasn't a religion--remember?).

Wasn't talking about religious belief per se.

 You didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was 
 practice it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or 
 anything else.

Well, you'd have to believe it was doing you some 
good or you'd have no motivation to continue.  And
you would have to *practice* regularly, or the whole
issue would obviously be moot.



 
 Sal
 
 
 On Aug 12, 2006, at 9:49 AM, authfriend wrote:
 
  Do you ever defend things you believe in when others
  criticize them?  Are you being defensive when you do
  that?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
  was a weasel phrase.  It had nothing to do with
  the particular issue being discussed, it was just
  thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
  ridiculous.
  
 But I believe that is the underlying assumption of those who use 
the phrase
 ³Maharishi says.² That phrase carries a lot more weight than ³I 
say² or
 ³George Bush (etc.) says.² The assumption is that because 
Maharishi is
 enlightened, he knows the truth about anything he puts his 
attention on,
 whether politics, economics, agriculture, etc. It¹s like ³the Pope 
says² for
 a devout Catholic. He is God¹s representative, so it¹s almost like 
saying
 ³God says.²


...and that's why I love turning the tables on the TBers by citing 
things such as the hundreds of meditations or the we are 
satisfied quotes to them...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Another way of putting it would be that he does have
  a handle on Absolute
  Truth, but that that doesn¹t qualify him as an
  authority on all matters of
  relative truth.
 
  And this is when the cult-like quality enters
 in the TMO. People handover their authority over their
 own experience to another (MMY/TMO) under the
 erroneous assumption that there is a perfect or
 objectively correct way to live their life. This is
 an infantile wish of the perfect parent being
 projected and acted out. The TMO, at least in my
 experience in the USA, strongly encourages this, but
 ironically MMY doesn't engage in this on a one-to-one
 level. When people ask MMY what they should do in a
 particular situation many times he'll ask what they
 think they should do and then he'll say, Do that. 
 This lack of authority over ones own life is a deep,
 deep attachment that so many hardcore Ru's have. I see
 MMY as doing his best to break it with all the crazy
 nonesese over the last 20 years. 




...but you do get alot of free labor for your organisation by 
encouraging the nonsense.  And as cynical as it may sound, I 
really believe that is one of the motivations for the TMO to 
encourage the cultism around it.  Because let's face it: it doesn't 
take a genius to figure out that the lifestyles of the people in the 
TMO and the way the TMO conducts its affairs is in direct 
contradiction to the way the TM Program is taught.






 
 
 
 
 
  
  
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Authfriend



You make some valid points.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 8:58 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Were you ever convinced you were actually hovering
in the air when you were only hopping? Or were
you simply using the term levitate to refer to
the immediate physical effects of practicing the
Yogic Flying sutra, i.e., hopping?

I used the standard line that hopping was the first stage of flying, but maintained that at the hopping stage, no laws of Newtonian physics were being violated. MMY and the TMO intentionally give the impression that they are.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 10:14 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and MMY 
but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went 
into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program. You 
can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the horrible 
things that the Movement turned out to be.

Have I done that? I dont think so.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

No, Judy, no belief in its efficacy was needed, not when I started 
anyway.  The motivation would come once the relaxation benefits came, 
so the reasoning went.  And yes, I did say you needed to do it 2X a day 
in my paragraph below.

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:31 AM, authfriend wrote:


 You didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was
 practice it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or
 anything else.

 Well, you'd have to believe it was doing you some
 good or you'd have no motivation to continue.  And
 you would have to *practice* regularly, or the whole
 issue would obviously be moot.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both 
passive 
 and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs
 
 
 
  How can you tell the difference between someone
  who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
  somebody who is so excited by something they've
  just learned they can't stop talking about it?
 
 Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced I 
 speak in terms of I and we but in the case in point it was 
 all Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost 
absence 
 of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi existed,,,only his 
 word, his thoughts, his ideals,,,truely frightening that one 
person, 
 a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest 
of 
 us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us could be looked 
 upon as different. 
 
 But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
 Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
 pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
 hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
 like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
 picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.
  
  Just for the record, the German study is a
  complete crock.  If you're interested to know
  more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
  alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
 
 Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock. Well I don't 
think 
 the German courts share you view. Can you tell me who set up and 
who 
 sponsored the site you have recommended?
  
  For that matter, practically everything you'll
  find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
  other.  Not a reliable source of information on
  TM.
 
 I have been to far more sites then Trancenet but thank you for 
your 
 advice.
  
  Most people just learn TM and go away and
  practice it on their own without going any
  further or becoming involved in the TM
  organization.
  
  It's also entirely possible to learn the 
  TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
  organization without getting into a cultlike
  relationship with it.
  
  Some people seem to need to establish a
  cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
  unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
  to discourage that.
 
 Absolutely and I couldn't agree more with these statements. In 
fact 
 I meditate myself,,,regularly.



...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program whereas 
your Ex is not.  Because she has embraced a cult and done it in the 
way she has, she isn't really practising the TM Program...she may be 
doing the TM Technique twice a day, but NOT the TM Program which is 
all about choosing activity according to your own traditions, your 
own common sense and NOT adopting some TM religion or TM philosophy 
or TM Way of Life.

YOU practise TM; SHE doesn't.




 But its not just the cult like 
 mentality referring to the TMO it is also the worshipping of a 
 man, that man being Maharishi. He's just a man who has made 
billions 
 selling a customised version of Hinduism. And there's nothing 
wrong 
 with that. Just be honest and call it what it is. 
  
   When I first started dating me
  
  Freudian slip?? 
 
 More like a reality check,,,in the final analysis I was dating 
 myself. Her mind was no where to be found, then again neither was 
 her heart.
 
  
  I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
  levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
  of Yogic Flying.
 
 Wanna bet!!!
 








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter





on 8/12/06 9:50 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

That's when I finally had even enough and said something like,,,Oh 
sure Maharishi says everyone should be celibate but himreffering 
to a years ago comment by the beatles calling him a lecherous 
womaniser. 

Read the Sexy Sadie file in the files section of FFL.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sal,,,I'm quite certain of it. 
 
 I think the meditation is her own personal crutch or a happy pill.
 
 Just pop and hop and she feels better temporarily. But it doesn't 
 address the underlying root causes/demons etc. 
 
 But because Maharishi says just meditate more and all your 
 problems will go away. She appears totally convinced that more 
money 
 on more time and more meditation will bring her the peace she wants.
 
 
 Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which we 
 do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS that 
 tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or meditation 
 or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to 
 enlightment.
 
 So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation and 
 give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one reach 
 true enlightment.

One of MMY's sayings is that sometimes you have to
use a thorn to remove a thorn.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bill's next two first dates:
 
 Bill  So what do you think about these yogic flyers for world 
peace I
 saw in the paper?
 
 Date  Oh my God I am a yogic flyer, I was on that course and it
 filled me with bliss!
 
 Bill Waiter, check please. (sound of tires squealing all the way 
out
 of the parking lot.)
 
 Next women:
 
 Bill  So what do you think about these yogic flyers for world 
peace I
 saw in the paper?
 
 Date Yogurt what?
 
 Bill Oh never mind, please tell me about where you grew up?



In light of Bill's last post, the conversation would go like this:

Bill: Do you think celibacy is necessary to achieve ultimate 
enlightenment?

Date: What's celibacy?

Bill: Waiter, check please. (sound of tires squealing all the way 
out of the parking lot...but Date is with him).





 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  
   That's ok,,,I am certainly accustomed to defensiveness both 
passive 
  and agressive when speaking about TM with TM'rs
  
  
  
   How can you tell the difference between someone
   who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
   somebody who is so excited by something they've
   just learned they can't stop talking about it?
  
  Personally, when I am excited about something I have experienced 
I 
  speak in terms of I and we but in the case in point it was 
  all Maharishi,,,Maharishi,,,Maharishi. Indicating an almost 
absence 
  of self awareness and identity. Only Maharishi existed,,,only 
his 
  word, his thoughts, his ideals,,,truely frightening that one 
person, 
  a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest 
of 
  us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us could be 
looked 
  upon as different. 
  
  But then I have walked through the halls of his Center of 
  Enlightenment in Huntsville. Dingy, old, smells of mould, paint 
  pealing off the walls. Kitchen appliances that look like fire 
  hazards. It seemed totally void of life joy or happiness. I felt 
  like I was walking through a morgue. No plants, no flowers only 
  picture after endless picture of Maharishi himself on the walls.
   
   Just for the record, the German study is a
   complete crock.  If you're interested to know
   more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
   alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
  
  Ah yes an impartial government study is a crock. Well I don't 
think 
  the German courts share you view. Can you tell me who set up and 
who 
  sponsored the site you have recommended?
   
   For that matter, practically everything you'll
   find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
   other.  Not a reliable source of information on
   TM.
  
  I have been to far more sites then Trancenet but thank you for 
your 
  advice.
   
   Most people just learn TM and go away and
   practice it on their own without going any
   further or becoming involved in the TM
   organization.
   
   It's also entirely possible to learn the 
   TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
   organization without getting into a cultlike
   relationship with it.
   
   Some people seem to need to establish a
   cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
   unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
   to discourage that.
  
  Absolutely and I couldn't agree more with these statements. In 
fact 
  I meditate myself,,,regularly. But its not just the cult like 
  mentality referring to the TMO it is also the worshipping of a 
  man, that man being Maharishi. He's just a man who has made 
billions 
  selling a customised version of Hinduism. And there's nothing 
wrong 
  with that. Just be honest and call it what it is. 
   
When I first started dating me
   
   Freudian slip?? 
  
  More like a reality check,,,in the final analysis I was dating 
  myself. Her mind was no where to be found, then again neither 
was 
  her heart.
  
   
   I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
   levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
   of Yogic Flying.
  
  Wanna bet!!!
  
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Very good points about needs, Bill, and how we all need to 
overcome 
 them--ha, ha.
 
 I personally started TM for the relaxation benefits it claimed 
you'd 
 feel, and that is still why I continue the practice.  The concept 
of 
 enlightenment, whatever it might mean to others, is so vague as 
to be 
 meaningless IMO, and as such has never had much of a  place in my 
world 
 view  and hence stay out of all discussions in which it comes up. 






...and what's really great about this point of view of Sal's is that 
if the concept of enlightenment actually does exist, she will get 
there just as fast as the TBer who does believe in the concept 
(actually, she'll probably get there faster than the TBer who in 
most cases doesn't practise the TM Program).






(Not 
 to mention the fact that, probably because of its vagueness, I 
find 
 most discussions of it kind of boring.  But others obviously 
don't, so 
 discuss away! :) )
 
 Sal
 
 
 On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:14 AM, Bill (William)Simmons wrote:
 
  Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which 
we
  do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS 
that
  tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or 
meditation
  or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to
  enlightment.
 
  So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation 
and
  give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one 
reach
  true enlightment.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
only hopping--are you?

No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to convince others, that their rising into the air is being caused by something more than just muscular contractions.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread curtisdeltablues

Shemp:
So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and MMY
but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went
into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program. You
can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the horrible
things that the Movement turned out to be.

Me:
I don't think MMY's instructions to his teachers and fulltime people
can be characterized as the opposite of the TM program just because it
is initially presented in another manor  meant to be effective
marketing to the general public.  The first presentation of TM is not
the only official way it is presented depending on what level of the
organization you are on.  For example, I was tested on TTC on my
feelings as I sang the puja.  Quizzed intensely about what feelings I
had as I sang certain words in Sanskrit.  This is obviously a long way
from the innocent practice of TM as presented in the intro lecture,
but it was every bit as legitimate a part of MMY's program.

As you got closer and closer to MMY's inner circle the beliefs were
presented as being purer without the need to interface with a
skeptical public with marketing spin.  The inner circle around MMY
,with his absolute unquestioned authority, was set up exactly as he
wished.  I think you are making an artificial distinction between MMY
and TMO which he micromanages into what he desires, including the
beliefs of his closest members.




- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at unclewas@ wrote:
   
   When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
   she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
   upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. 
 One
   things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
   
  I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the 
 assumption
  that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in
  http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB 
 to question
  that assumption.
 
 
 It should if you were a cult member.
 
 Rick, you were involved with the TMO and MMY way, way outside the 
 orbit of being a mere practitioner of the TM Program.  You 
 embraced something that had a guru, an organisation that had a 
 belief system and an entirely separate and different way of life 
 than an ordinary American.
 
 You weren't forced into it and you weren't required to partake of it.
 
 In fact, you were told in the first 5 minutes of the Introductory 
 Lecture -- your first official exposure to the TMO -- that it wasn't 
 a philosophy or a religion yet you went right ahead and partook of 
 that by becoming a TM teacher and living amongst the celibates and 
 inner circle of MMY for many, many years.
 
 So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and MMY 
 but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went 
 into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program.  You 
 can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the horrible 
 things that the Movement turned out to be.
 
 For, to use your words above, the most hardcore TBer to now 
 question his assumptions by looking at the materials you cite, is a 
 bit ingenious.  A TBer would have to be a complete idiot to now feel 
 shock at all these revelations when from Day One of anyone's 
 involvement in the TMO or TMO Inner Circle it was obvious that it 
 was off the program.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Authfriend

Bill:

consider hitting the reply button when you're responding to a 
particular point.  Unless you're starting a new topic, we won't know 
what exactly you're responding to unless you do that because your 
correspondent's comments won't appear.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 You make some valid points.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  Sal,,,I'm quite certain of it. 
  
  I think the meditation is her own personal crutch or a happy 
pill.
  
  Just pop and hop and she feels better temporarily. But it 
doesn't 
  address the underlying root causes/demons etc. 
  
  But because Maharishi says just meditate more and all your 
  problems will go away. She appears totally convinced that more 
 money 
  on more time and more meditation will bring her the peace she 
wants.
  
  
  Ironically I think the path to enlightment is the path in which 
we 
  do away with all our needs. Afterall it is our percieved NEEDS 
that 
  tie us down. And if a person NEEDS a Guru's guidance or 
meditation 
  or anything then it is still a need and still an obstacle to 
  enlightment.
  
  So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation 
and 
  give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can one 
reach 
  true enlightment.
 
 One of MMY's sayings is that sometimes you have to
 use a thorn to remove a thorn.


I have the sneaking suspicion, Judy, that coming up with 
a Maharishi Says comment in your discussion with Bill isn't going 
to win friends and influence people...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 No, Judy, no belief in its efficacy was needed, not when I started 
 anyway.  The motivation would come once the relaxation benefits
 came, so the reasoning went.

That's what I just said!  What are you saying no to?

Remember the *context*.  I had asked Bill whether he
ever defended something he believed in when it was
being criticized (he had called that being defensive
in the case of TMers; my point is that defending
something isn't necessarily the same as being
defensive).

Your saying one isn't supposed to have to believe
in anything for TM to work was a non sequitur in
this context.  I should probably just have pointed
that out and left it at that.

Once you have acquired the *motivation* to practice
TM because you've seen the benefits, at that point
you can be said to believe it works without being
inconsistent with the initial teaching.  This 
woman had been practicing TM for 25 years, so
presumably she had perceived benefits.

One thing has nothing to do with the other, Sal.


  And yes, I did say you needed to do it 2X a day 
 in my paragraph below.
 
 Sal
 
 
 On Aug 12, 2006, at 10:31 AM, authfriend wrote:
 
  You didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was
  practice it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or
  anything else.
 
  Well, you'd have to believe it was doing you some
  good or you'd have no motivation to continue.  And
  you would have to *practice* regularly, or the whole
  issue would obviously be moot.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

2006-08-12 Thread nablus108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  
 But I believe that is the underlying assumption of those who use the 
phrase
 ³Maharishi says.² That phrase carries a lot more weight than ³I say² 
or
 ³George Bush (etc.) says.² The assumption is that because Maharishi is
 enlightened, he knows the truth about anything he puts his attention 
on,
 whether politics, economics, agriculture, etc. It¹s like ³the Pope 
says² for
 a devout Catholic. He is God¹s representative, so it¹s almost like 
saying
 ³God says.²

That's right Rich !







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Shemp:
 So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and 
MMY
 but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went
 into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program. You
 can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the horrible
 things that the Movement turned out to be.
 
 Me:
 I don't think MMY's instructions to his teachers and fulltime 
people
 can be characterized as the opposite of the TM program just 
because it
 is initially presented in another manor  meant to be effective
 marketing to the general public.  The first presentation of TM is 
not
 the only official way it is presented depending on what level of 
the
 organization you are on.  For example, I was tested on TTC on my
 feelings as I sang the puja.  Quizzed intensely about what 
feelings I
 had as I sang certain words in Sanskrit.  This is obviously a long 
way
 from the innocent practice of TM as presented in the intro lecture,
 but it was every bit as legitimate a part of MMY's program.
 
 As you got closer and closer to MMY's inner circle the beliefs were
 presented as being purer without the need to interface with a
 skeptical public with marketing spin.  The inner circle around MMY
 ,with his absolute unquestioned authority, was set up exactly as he
 wished.  I think you are making an artificial distinction between 
MMY
 and TMO which he micromanages into what he desires, including the
 beliefs of his closest members.




...and that's probably the #1 reason why his organisation is such a 
failure.

That's why I subscribe to Bob Brigante's prescription for many of 
the ills of the TMO: outside professionals should be hired to do 
things such as marketing.  I think it should be extended to all 
parts of his operations.




 
 
 
 
 - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at unclewas@ wrote:

When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the 
floor
upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the 
bed. 
  One
things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle 
development.

   I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the 
  assumption
   that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in
   http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core 
TB 
  to question
   that assumption.
  
  
  It should if you were a cult member.
  
  Rick, you were involved with the TMO and MMY way, way outside 
the 
  orbit of being a mere practitioner of the TM Program.  You 
  embraced something that had a guru, an organisation that had a 
  belief system and an entirely separate and different way of life 
  than an ordinary American.
  
  You weren't forced into it and you weren't required to partake 
of it.
  
  In fact, you were told in the first 5 minutes of the 
Introductory 
  Lecture -- your first official exposure to the TMO -- that it 
wasn't 
  a philosophy or a religion yet you went right ahead and partook 
of 
  that by becoming a TM teacher and living amongst the celibates 
and 
  inner circle of MMY for many, many years.
  
  So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and 
MMY 
  but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went 
  into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program.  
You 
  can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the 
horrible 
  things that the Movement turned out to be.
  
  For, to use your words above, the most hardcore TBer to now 
  question his assumptions by looking at the materials you cite, 
is a 
  bit ingenious.  A TBer would have to be a complete idiot to now 
feel 
  shock at all these revelations when from Day One of anyone's 
  involvement in the TMO or TMO Inner Circle it was obvious that 
it 
  was off the program.
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
  MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
  are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
  only hopping--are you?
  
 No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to convince 
others, that
 their ³rising into the air² is being caused by something more than 
just
 muscular contractions.

What causes the contractions?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
  unclewas@ wrote:
snip
   So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up meditation 
   and give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How can 
   one reach true enlightment.
  
  One of MMY's sayings is that sometimes you have to
  use a thorn to remove a thorn.
 
 I have the sneaking suspicion, Judy, that coming up with 
 a Maharishi Says comment in your discussion with Bill isn't going 
 to win friends and influence people...

Did I say What MMY says is true?

Did you even understand the point I was making?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

2006-08-12 Thread nablus108


 a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of 
 us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us 

Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words spilled 
over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a 
saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish thoughts 
and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.

When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the toilet 
was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need. 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of 
  us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us 
 
 Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words spilled 
 over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a 
 saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish thoughts 
 and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.
 
 When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the 
toilet 
 was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need.

Does he prefer squatting over a bucket, perhaps?







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 11:14 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
  MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
  are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
  only hopping--are you?
  
 No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to convince 
others, that
 their rising into the air is being caused by something more than 
just
 muscular contractions.

What causes the contractions?

Could be kundalini. Could be the same sort of intention and resultant neural firings that cause me to raise my arm to scratch my nose. But no levitation is taking place.

__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Bill:
 
 consider hitting the reply button when you're responding to a 
 particular point.  Unless you're starting a new topic, we won't 
know 
 what exactly you're responding to unless you do that because your 
 correspondent's comments won't appear.

#109235


 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  
  
  You make some valid points.
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
   unclewas@ wrote:
 snip
So I guess what I'm saying is until one can give up 
meditation 
and give up Maharishi or anyone else for that matter, How 
can 
one reach true enlightment.
   
   One of MMY's sayings is that sometimes you have to
   use a thorn to remove a thorn.
  
  I have the sneaking suspicion, Judy, that coming up with 
  a Maharishi Says comment in your discussion with Bill isn't 
going 
  to win friends and influence people...
 
 Did I say What MMY says is true?
 
 Did you even understand the point I was making?


What I said was partically tongue-in-cheek.  Relax.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
  a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest 
of 
  us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us 
 
 Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words 
spilled 
 over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a 
 saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish 
thoughts 
 and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.
 
 When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the 
toilet 
 was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need.


Does anyone have the number of a good Deprogrammer?

Nablus needs one...quick!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
 ...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program 

He never said he practiced TM, Shemp.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 11:14 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com
  , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:
   
I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
only hopping--are you?

   No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to convince
   others, that their ³rising into the air² is being caused by 
   something more than just muscular contractions.
  
  What causes the contractions?
  
 Could be kundalini.

So it *could* be something more than just
muscular contractions.

 Could be the same sort of intention and 
 resultant neural firings that cause me to raise my arm to scratch 
 my nose.

 But no levitation is taking place.

duh

Yes, I think we all agree on that.

The *issue* was whether Bill's GF knew no levitation
was taking place, and whether that had anything to
do with believing MMY has a handle on what you call
Absolute Truth.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/12/06 11:14 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:
  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
 40yahoogroups.com
   , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
   
on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:

 I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
 MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
 are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
 only hopping--are you?
 
No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to 
convince
others, that their ³rising into the air² is being caused by 
something more than just muscular contractions.
   
   What causes the contractions?
   
  Could be kundalini.
 
 So it *could* be something more than just
 muscular contractions.
 
  Could be the same sort of intention and 
  resultant neural firings that cause me to raise my arm to 
scratch 
  my nose.
 
  But no levitation is taking place.
 
 duh
 
 Yes, I think we all agree on that.
 
 The *issue* was whether Bill's GF knew no levitation
 was taking place, and whether that had anything to
 do with believing MMY has a handle on what you call
 Absolute Truth.



I just had a thought.

Perhaps the same thing is responsible for both the levitation that 
flyers experience and the fact that MMY has no need of a toilet.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 snip
  ...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program 
 
 He never said he practiced TM, Shemp.



He said he meditated regularly.

And within the context of the discussion that was going on when he 
said it, I assumed he meant the TM Program.

If it isn't TM that he practises, I hope he'll let us know and then 
I'll stand corrected.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

on 8/12/06 11:22 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest of
us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us

Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words spilled
over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a
saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish thoughts
and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.

When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the toilet
was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need.

He may have said that, because he sometimes does try to give the impression that he is above physical needs, but all his suites over the years have had toilets. He eats food and it comes out the other end, just like the rest of us. Ive heard him fart, pee, and while traveling, he had to make bathroom stops, just like the rest of us. His girlfriends said he ejaculates. Hes had operations on his eyes, prostate, heart and other health problems. Hes been banged up in car and helicopter accidents, nearly electrocuted by a faulty tape recorder, etc.

None of these things are to his detriment. I mention them just to divest Nablus of the fantasy that MMY is not a human being.

__._,_.___

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__,_._,___

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 11:39 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 11:14 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com
  , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 9:08 AM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:
   
I don't *think* you're claiming that people who believe
MMY has a handle on Absolute Truth as you define it
are convinced they're hovering in the air when they're
only hopping--are you?

   No, but I think many are convinced, or at least try to convince
   others, that their rising into the air is being caused by 
   something more than just muscular contractions.
  
  What causes the contractions?
  
 Could be kundalini.

So it *could* be something more than just
muscular contractions.

No. kundalini triggers muscular contractions.


__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

To clarify, no I am not a TM'r, though God knows I was pressured to 
become one, to the point where she broke it off once simply because 
I wasn't willingly to join.

No I prefer a park setting, sitting at the base of a tree leaning 
against it with my spine.(Crosslegged). Sometimes I'll repeat the 
words One with All,,,other times I'll just focus on my breath and 
take it all in. 

No secret mantra, no set rituals, I am a free forming kind of person 
who just likes to go with the flow.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
shempmcgurk@ 
  wrote:
  snip
   ...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program 
  
  He never said he practiced TM, Shemp.
 
 
 
 He said he meditated regularly.
 
 And within the context of the discussion that was going on when he 
 said it, I assumed he meant the TM Program.
 
 If it isn't TM that he practises, I hope he'll let us know and 
then 
 I'll stand corrected.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 10:14 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and 
MMY
  but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went
  into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program.  You
  can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the 
horrible
  things that the Movement turned out to be.
  
 Have I done that? I don¹t think so.


No, for the most part you don't.  I find you, like Fox News, fair 
and balanced almost all of the time

But there is, sometimes, some bitterness that does come across.  
Hey, how many years did you spend fully devoted to MMY and the 
TMO...10?  20?

That's a major chunk of your life...










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 11:22 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the 
rest of
   us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us
  
  Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words 
spilled
  over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a
  saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish 
thoughts
  and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.
  
  When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the 
toilet
  was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need.
  
 He may have said that, because he sometimes does try to give the 
impression
 that he is above physical needs, but all his suites over the years 
have had
 toilets. He eats food and it comes out the other end, just like 
the rest of
 us. I¹ve heard him fart, pee, and while traveling, he had to make 
bathroom
 stops, just like the rest of us. His girlfriends said he 
ejaculates.




This is interesting.

Perhaps I didn't read the entire Sexy Sadie file (it does tend to go 
on and on), but I particularly looked out for this little tidbit of 
information and don't remember seeing it.

Why was I looking for this?  Because in the Muktananda sex-abuse 
revelations, it was specifically pointed out that he not only didn't 
ejaculate but that he didn't even get an erection, despite the penis 
being put into the vagina.

So I kinda thought that maybe that was similar to what was going on 
with the allegations with MMY.

You wrote that his girlfriends -- plural -- reported that he 
ejaculated.  So there are at least TWO reports of this?

Another point: anything short of both ejaculating and showing one's 
privates can often be construed as being ambiguous or, at the least, 
a he-said-she-said situation.

How many hard no-ambiguiity-to-it instances are there in the Sexy 
Sadie files?  Again, I didn't read it as thoroughly as I should have 
perhaps but there is, I think you'll admit, a hell of alot of 
innuendo and not alot of cold, hard no-ambiguity declarations of 
fact such as describe above.  Are they there and, if so, what 
exactly is said?








 He¹s
 had operations on his eyes, prostate, heart and other health 
problems. He¹s
 been banged up in car and helicopter accidents, nearly 
electrocuted by a
 faulty tape recorder, etc.
 
 None of these things are to his detriment. I mention them just to 
divest
 Nablus of the fantasy that MMY is not a human being.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 To clarify, no I am not a TM'r,







Judy, I stand corrected.








 though God knows I was pressured to 
 become one, to the point where she broke it off once simply 
because 
 I wasn't willingly to join.
 
 No I prefer a park setting, sitting at the base of a tree leaning 
 against it with my spine.





If you faced the other way, you could be accused of being a tree-
hugger.







(Crosslegged). Sometimes I'll repeat the 
 words One with All,,,other times I'll just focus on my breath 
and 
 take it all in. 
 
 No secret mantra, no set rituals, I am a free forming kind of 
person 
 who just likes to go with the flow.
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 shempmcgurk@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 shempmcgurk@ 
   wrote:
   snip
...and you are, IMHO, an actual practioner of the TM Program 
   
   He never said he practiced TM, Shemp.
  
  
  
  He said he meditated regularly.
  
  And within the context of the discussion that was going on when 
he 
  said it, I assumed he meant the TM Program.
  
  If it isn't TM that he practises, I hope he'll let us know and 
 then 
  I'll stand corrected.
 








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 11:59 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 10:14 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the TMO and 
MMY
  but in the interests of balance and fairness, you willingly went
  into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM Program. You
  can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the 
horrible
  things that the Movement turned out to be.
  
 Have I done that? I dont think so.

No, for the most part you don't. I find you, like Fox News, fair 
and balanced almost all of the time

Um, thanks for the compliment. Shall I return it by saying you remind me of Air America?

But there is, sometimes, some bitterness that does come across. 

Its there, but periodic and not predominant.
 
Hey, how many years did you spend fully devoted to MMY and the 
TMO...10? 20?

25 as a full-time employee.

That's a major chunk of your life...

Yeah, but believe it or not, I really dont regret it. I could easily say I should have left in this year or that, but I tend not to lament the past. I believe that with regard to the past, one should feel that things happened the way they were supposed to happen. If you think otherwise, youre fighting with reality.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

on 8/12/06 11:57 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

You wrote that his girlfriends -- plural -- reported that he
ejaculated. So there are at least TWO reports of this?

Another point: anything short of both ejaculating and showing one's
privates can often be construed as being ambiguous or, at the least,
a he-said-she-said situation.

How many hard no-ambiguiity-to-it instances are there in the Sexy
Sadie files? Again, I didn't read it as thoroughly as I should have
perhaps but there is, I think you'll admit, a hell of alot of
innuendo and not alot of cold, hard no-ambiguity declarations of
fact such as describe above. Are they there and, if so, what
exactly is said?

Im not going to write a thorough review for you, but there were a couple of references to ejaculation. Perhaps one I heard is not in SS. Also, none of the accounts indicate a flaccid, Muktananda-style performance.

Ambiguity is in the eye of the beholder. Some would argue that the entire file is ambiguous. I guess it depends on who youve talked to and what you want to believe.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 11:59 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%
40yahoogroups.com
  , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 10:14 AM, shempmcgurk at shempmcgurk@ wrote:
   
So, yeah, I agree with many of your complaints about the 
TMO and
  MMY
but in the interests of balance and fairness, you 
willingly went
into that lifestyle that was the opposite of the TM 
Program.  You
can't now turn around and claim shock and awe for all the
  horrible
things that the Movement turned out to be.

   Have I done that? I don¹t think so.
  
  No, for the most part you don't.  I find you, like Fox News, fair
  and balanced almost all of the time
  
 Um, thanks for the compliment. Shall I return it by saying you 
remind me of
 Air America?




Did anyone hear that Janeane Garofalo spent the last weeks of her 
sojourn as an Air America host touting Scientology?





  
  But there is, sometimes, some bitterness that does come across.
  
 It¹s there, but periodic and not predominant.
   
  Hey, how many years did you spend fully devoted to MMY and the
  TMO...10?  20?
  
 25 as a full-time employee.
  
  That's a major chunk of your life...
 
 Yeah, but believe it or not, I really don¹t regret it. I could 
easily say I
 should have left in this year or that, but I tend not to lament 
the past. I
 believe that with regard to the past, one should feel that things 
happened
 the way they were supposed to happen. If you think otherwise, 
you¹re
 fighting with reality.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
  
 I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the assumption
 that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in
 http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB to question
 that assumption.


LOL. You have the silliest and most superficial concept of what Absolute 
Truth must mean. I 
used to have such juvenile expectations and beliefs also but outgrew them.

Why didn't you?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] wrote:

 Funny you should say that,,,(that it might be her supressed thoughts 
 too. Because there is this part of me that thinks the very same.
 
 I thought if I through as much unconditional love her way as humanly 
 possible I could reach her and I thought I was. She would say things 
 like ,,,This is the first time in my life that I have been truly 
 happy when we had done something together. Or we would have a perfect 
 weekend together,,,then BAM out of the blue it would be Maharishi this 
 and Maharishi that.
 
 It was as if a inner conflict was playing tug of war with her.
 
 I know she had a horrible childhood and turmoil in her early adult 
 life led to searching for acceptence and I think she thought she found 
 it in this group.


So if it wren't TM, it would be something else, I suspect. BTW, TM can *appear* 
to be 
addicting, but the dynamics don't quite fit in my experience. If you distract 
her sufficiently, 
she may well skip a meditation or at least delay it until after the movie or 
dinner date, but 
feel physically lousy --isn't that the case?

If so, that's not an addiction in the classic sense. Her body is simply used to 
having a 
certain state at a certain time.

OTOH, if she insists on meditating for longer and longer periods of time, even 
though it is 
disrupting her life, then that's a classic addiction or at least compulsion 
scenario. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  Thank you Sal.
  
  There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
  many times things like.
  
  I wouldn't be alive without it.
  
  I can't get through the day without it.
  
  It is the most important thing in my life.
  
  I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
  
  Meditation is the answer to everything.
  
  She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
  increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
  her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost 
  like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
 
 What was she like before she learned TM?
 
  Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
  site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
  seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
  says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain washed 
  and programmed.
 
 How can you tell the difference between someone
 who is totally brainwashed and programmed and
 somebody who is so excited by something they've
 just learned they can't stop talking about it?
 
  I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
  governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results 
  of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard 
  core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple 
  relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
 
 Just for the record, the German study is a
 complete crock.  If you're interested to know
 more, do a search on Google Groups in the group
 alt.meditation.transcendental for German study.
 
 For that matter, practically everything you'll
 find on Trancenet is dubious in one way or the
 other.  Not a reliable source of information on
 TM.
 
  I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
  first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and then 
  slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the yogic flying 
  er levitating,,,er hopping.
 
 Most people just learn TM and go away and
 practice it on their own without going any
 further or becoming involved in the TM
 organization.
 
 It's also entirely possible to learn the 
 TM-Sidhis and/or become involved with the TM
 organization without getting into a cultlike
 relationship with it.
 
 Some people seem to need to establish a
 cultlike relationship with the TMO, and
 unfortunately the TMO doesn't do anything
 to discourage that.
 
  When I first started dating me
 
 Freudian slip??
 
  she was absolutely convinced 
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed.
  One things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
 
 I kind of doubt she believed she was actually
 levitating beyond the first stage (hopping)
 of Yogic Flying.


It could explain a lot of things, however, if she does.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 How you guys could maintain a relationship is beyond
 me. She's a hardcore Ru' and your a non-meditator
 (very low cosmic status). How long did you guys go out
 together?
 

It's a stupid distinction anyway. If she's such a Ru, she should be living in 
Fairfield with all 
the other Rus. Since she's not, obviously her obsession with TM/TM-SIdhis is a 
superficial 
mask for something else. (speaking from experience here).






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 7:51 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com
  , Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at unclewas@ wrote:

When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One
things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.

   I used that phase often during my TM career. It¹s based on the
   assumption that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth.
  
  Or, that he has a handle on the truth about the
  nature and mechanics of consciousness.
  
  Absolute Truth is often a weasel phrase in this
  context designed to load the argument.
  
 Another way of putting it would be that he does have a handle on Absolute
 Truth, but that that doesn¹t qualify him as an authority on all matters of
 relative truth.


giggle I can tell you the secrets of the Universe, but I can't tell you how 
to fill out your 
income tax...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

2006-08-12 Thread scienceofabundance

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--snip--
 BTW, TM can *appear* to be 
 addicting, but the dynamics don't quite fit in my experience. 

Most non-recovering addicts of any thing will say the same thing you 
have said above. On a lighter (?), note do you experience your 
participation in FFL as being an addiction?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:27 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  How does any of this apply to a TM-Sidhis practitioner
  referring to hopping as levitation while being aware
  that hopping isn't actually levitating in the standard
  sense of the term?
  
 ³Maharishi sez² it¹s levitation. On the Merv Griffin show and elsewhere, he
 refers to hopping as being something that verifies meditators¹ command over
 the laws of nature.


At that point, he may well have believed that. In the late 70's, a famous 
sports physician 
was brought to MERU to test Yogic Flyers and he concluded that there was no 
sign of 
anything except muscular hopping. MMY's response was that Hopping like a Frog 
apparently meant hopping like a frog.

EVen so, the impulse to move comes during a different state of conscioiusness:  
Fred 
Travis's research clearly showed a different EEG pattern just before hpping 
during Yogic 
Flying as compared to just hopping while not doing Yogic Flying.

Since MMY has always made it clear the real reason to practice the technique is 
for the 
effect on consciousness, I don't see an issue. Do you?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 8:34 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  P.S.: That's why Absolute Truth in this context
  was a weasel phrase.  It had nothing to do with
  the particular issue being discussed, it was just
  thrown in to make True Believers sound especially
  ridiculous.
  
 But I believe that is the underlying assumption of those who use the phrase
 ³Maharishi says.² That phrase carries a lot more weight than ³I say² or
 ³George Bush (etc.) says.² The assumption is that because Maharishi is
 enlightened, he knows the truth about anything he puts his attention on,
 whether politics, economics, agriculture, etc. It¹s like ³the Pope says² for
 a devout Catholic. He is God¹s representative, so it¹s almost like saying
 ³God says.²


People can use the phrase for whatever reason they want, of course, but it only 
makes 
sense in the context of enlightenment/meditation.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

Nab, maybe it's time to come back from your long visit to the River in 
Egypt...

Sal


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:


 a simple man who bleeds like the rest of us,,,eats like the rest
 of
 us and excretes bodily wastes like the rest of us

 Do you know anything about this ? Or is it simply the words
 spilled
 over by your silly ignorance ? Have you lived in the company of a
 saint, or is your life dominated by foolish company, foolish
 thoughts
 and low level of intelligence ? It seems so.

 When building one of Maharishis suites, we pointed to where the
 toilet
 was to be built. Maharishi said: I have no need.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bill, I'd say you're lucky the relationship is over--chalk it up to a 
 learning experience.
 
 Many of us felt that way at some point (not the extreme anger part, but 
 definitely the protective of all things having to do with MMY part.  
 She'll move on too, I predict, when she realizes the TMO no longer fits 
 her fantasies. Doesn't mean she'll give up all things TM, just that the 
 illusion stage will be over.
 

So it's all the TMO's fault? She's not living at Fairfield, so obviously she 
isn't as hardcore as 
she likes to think. This is an internal problem she's projecting onto TM and 
the TMO. She may 
outgrow it and continue TM or move on, OR she may suddenly discover that TM is 
horrible 
and bad and find something new to obsess about and declare that all her time 
with TM was a 
complete waste while her NEW guru/organization is the best thing in the world, 
etc.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

*Definitely!* Hi, my name is Sal, and I'm a FF Life addict...

All together now...HI, SAL!!

Sal


On Aug 12, 2006, at 1:13 PM, scienceofabundance wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --snip--
  BTW, TM can *appear* to be
 addicting, but the dynamics don't quite fit in my experience.

 Most non-recovering addicts of any thing will say the same thing you
 have said above. On a lighter (?), note do you experience your
 participation in FFL as being an addiction?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield





on 8/12/06 1:00 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/12/06 6:36 AM, Bill (William)Simmons at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. One
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
  
 I used that phase often during my TM career. Its based on the assumption
 that Maharishi has a handle on Absolute Truth. The materials in
 http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp should cause even the most hard core TB to question
 that assumption.


LOL. You have the silliest and most superficial concept of what Absolute Truth must mean. I 
used to have such juvenile expectations and beliefs also but outgrew them.

Why didn't you?

Must be something in the water. Or maybe its because I meditate twice a day and you only once. Youre more grounded.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,Peter

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bill,
 Are you sure she doesn't have some other problems--like depression or 
 bipolarism?  Sounds like there is something more going on than just 
 defending MMY.  If so, it wouldn't be all that unusual--many of us 
 looked to TM as a cure-all, until it became obvious it wasn't.  And 
 those quick flashes of anger, seemingly out of nowhere, are something I 
 have learned to avoid.  I find them scary.
 
 
I've got at least two problems that bring them about, and they may be related:

I have ADD and AD/HD people often have flashes of anger in order to focus. It's 
scary for 
them AND for the people around them.

I also have an anger management problem during allergy attacks. This may or may 
not be 
related to the AD/HD issue.

Intrestingly enough, I tend to have MORE anger-flashes when I'm regular in my 
program. I 
don't know if this is a sign of unsressing or simply a more efficient way to 
focus, however.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,,,I'm sensing some defensiveness

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But that's just it--you weren't supposed to have to believe in 
 anything when you started TM (as it wasn't a religion--remember?). You 
 didn't even need to believe TM worked--all you had to do was practice 
 it, 2X/day, believing whatever you wanted about that or anything else.

Sure, but people fixate on all sorts of things. Why does anyone bother to read 
this forum, for 
example?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister

2006-08-12 Thread cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Funny you should say that,,,(that it might be her supressed 
thoughts 
 too. 

Well, there's in my native language a proverb that goes like:
Se koira älähtää, johon kalikka kalahtaa! (LOL!)
I believe many languages have something similar, but
I can't recall how that same idea is expressed in English.
Anyways, a clumsy translation of the proverb above might
be something like:
That dog whines who gets hit by the stick.
(In a literal translation like that the original rhythm and other
such stuff gets lost.)



Because there is this part of me that thinks the very same.
 
 I thought if I through as much unconditional love her way as 
humanly 
 possible I could reach her and I thought I was. She would say 
things 
 like ,,,This is the first time in my life that I have been truly 
 happy when we had done something together. Or we would have a 
perfect 
 weekend together,,,then BAM out of the blue it would be Maharishi 
this 
 and Maharishi that.
 
 It was as if a inner conflict was playing tug of war with her.
 
 I know she had a horrible childhood and turmoil in her early adult 
 life led to searching for acceptence and I think she thought she 
found 
 it in this group.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bill (William)Simmons 
 unclewas@ wrote:
 
  Thank you Sal.
  
  There seems to be an addiction to the flying thing.  She told me 
  many times things like.
  
  I wouldn't be alive without it.
  
  I can't get through the day without it.
  
  It is the most important thing in my life.
  
  I don't want to work I just want to meditate.
  
  Meditation is the answer to everything.
  
  She admits to being addicted to it and I have witnessed the 
  increased stress levels and nervousness if she doesn't have 
  her daily fix. Irratibility, nervousness, short tempered. Almost 
  like a drug addict going through withdrawls.
  
  Hell I dpicked her up from Huntsville Ontario once, at Maharishi 
  site up here in Canada and the whole three hour car ride home it 
  seemed like she was spaced out and everything was ,,,Maharishi 
  says,,,Maharishi says,,,Maharishi says,,,as if totally brain 
 washed 
  and programmed.
  
  I've been reading a lot of internet sites of former TM teachers, 
  governors etc and a couple sites including one posting the results 
  of a German Youth Ministry Study on the affects of long term hard 
  core TM brand meditation and it doesn't sound like the simple 
  relaxation technique this Maharishi guy sells.
  
  I'm reminded of the drug pusher who offers a kid his 
  first Toke',,,Hey its good for you, it'll chill you out,,,and 
 then 
  slowly he sucks you into harder core drugs like the yogic flying 
  er levitating,,,er hopping.
  
  When I first started dating me she was absolutely convinced 
  she levitated meanwhile I'm down stairs listening to the floor 
  upstairs squeak like hell as she bounced up and down on the bed. 
 One 
  things for certain,,,she's got great thigh muscle development.
 
 
 
 Boy, she must have been very beautiful or had a very charming 
 personality for you to stand her for so long.
 
 How could you put up with all of that?
 
 For the record, very few TMers that I know were like that.


A lot moved to fairfield. A lot switched gurus along the way, I think.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hello Fairfield,, Cardemaister