[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread Ingegerd
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
  To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take a 
back
  seat
  to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing to 
me.
  
  Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the Sidhi
  program to
  Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when
  Maharishi came
  out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're trying to
  shift blame
  away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots and 
always
  has. Deal
  with it.
  
  I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research 
as 'proof'!  I
  think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers required 
to
  create such an effect. I realize that it was at the suggestion
  of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this 
totally
  premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only need the
  square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift trends 
in
  the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and 
who's the
  chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!
 
 The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy 
MMY was
 propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
details of that
 whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to 
India
 during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
Westerners. So
 Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
experimenting on
 half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this account 
from one of
 them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came 
out when
 Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in the 
UK in
 which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you can 
get one of
 your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon after 
the
 sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was 
still
 Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded the 
research.
 In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied 
about
 before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
countless hours
 discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
foisted on him
 by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He was 
tickled
 pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 10% 
of the
 world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think 
this
 particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement. 
Although
 the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable 
folks who were
 beginning to take it seriously.

A group of Norwegian TM-Teachers, including me, did learn the TM-
Sidhi-Techniques in 1978 directly from MMY, for free. MMY gave us 
the techniques and explained how they worked. Nandkishore was 
sometimes with him. Once we asked a question to Nandkishore: If we 
do not have time to do the whole program, what should we give 
priority. His answer was: The Asanas and the Pranayama. I did not 
understand why he did not say The TM-Sidhi-Techniques. Every month 
we did send our experiences with the TM-Sidhi-Program to MMY, not 
always telling the truth. It was some kind of Mass-Hypnosis - always 
waiting to fly in the air. But we did not pay for the courses - so 
maybe we were among the students that MMY tried out the program 
with. 
Ingegerd








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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread Ingegerd
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take 
a 
  back
seat
to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing 
to 
  me.

Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the Sidhi
program to
Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when
Maharishi came
out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're trying 
to
shift blame
away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots and 
  always
has. Deal
with it.

I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research 
  as 'proof'!  I
think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers 
required 
  to
create such an effect. I realize that it was at the 
suggestion
of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this 
  totally
premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only need 
the
square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift 
 trends 
  in
the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and 
  who's the
chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!
   
   The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the 
guy 
  MMY was
   propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
  details of that
   whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip 
to 
  India
   during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
  Westerners. So
   Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
  experimenting on
   half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this 
account 
  from one of
   them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect 
came 
  out when
   Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in 
 the 
  UK in
   which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you 
can 
  get one of
   your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon 
 after 
  the
   sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It 
was 
  still
   Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded 
the 
  research.
   In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was 
bandied 
  about
   before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
  countless hours
   discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
  foisted on him
   by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He 
 was 
  tickled
   pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 
 10% 
  of the
   world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't 
think 
  this
   particular point has much to do with the failure of the 
movement. 
  Although
   the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable 
  folks who were
   beginning to take it seriously.
  
  A group of Norwegian TM-Teachers, including me, did learn the TM-
  Sidhi-Techniques in 1978 directly from MMY, for free. MMY gave 
us 
  the techniques and explained how they worked. Nandkishore was 
  sometimes with him. Once we asked a question to Nandkishore: If 
we 
  do not have time to do the whole program, what should we give 
  priority. His answer was: The Asanas and the Pranayama. I did 
 not 
  understand why he did not say The TM-Sidhi-Techniques. Every 
 month 
  we did send our experiences with the TM-Sidhi-Program to MMY, 
not 
  always telling the truth. It was some kind of Mass-Hypnosis - 
 always 
  waiting to fly in the air. But we did not pay for the courses - 
so 
  maybe we were among the students that MMY tried out the program 
  with. 
  Ingegerd
  
 
 
 Huh, I would think it would be TM first, not asanas, since that is 
 what people were taught prior to the sidhis..

What you think is one thing - what Nandkishore said is another 
thing. I was wondering myself why he did not mention TM and TM-Sidhi-
technique.
Ingegerd






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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 
 To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take 
 a 
   back
 seat
 to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing 
 to 
   me.
 
 Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the 
Sidhi
 program to
 Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when
 Maharishi came
 out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're 
trying 
 to
 shift blame
 away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots 
and 
   always
 has. Deal
 with it.
 
 I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research 
   as 'proof'!  I
 think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers 
 required 
   to
 create such an effect. I realize that it was at the 
 suggestion
 of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this 
   totally
 premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only 
need 
 the
 square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift 
  trends 
   in
 the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and 
   who's the
 chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!

The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the 
 guy 
   MMY was
propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
   details of that
whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick 
trip 
 to 
   India
during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
   Westerners. So
Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
   experimenting on
half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this 
 account 
   from one of
them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect 
 came 
   out when
Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign 
in 
  the 
   UK in
which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you 
 can 
   get one of
your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon 
  after 
   the
sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It 
 was 
   still
Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded 
 the 
   research.
In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was 
 bandied 
   about
before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
   countless hours
discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
   foisted on him
by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. 
He 
  was 
   tickled
pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to 
get 
  10% 
   of the
world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't 
 think 
   this
particular point has much to do with the failure of the 
 movement. 
   Although
the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable 
   folks who were
beginning to take it seriously.
   
   A group of Norwegian TM-Teachers, including me, did learn the 
TM-
   Sidhi-Techniques in 1978 directly from MMY, for free. MMY gave 
 us 
   the techniques and explained how they worked. Nandkishore was 
   sometimes with him. Once we asked a question to Nandkishore: If 
 we 
   do not have time to do the whole program, what should we give 
   priority. His answer was: The Asanas and the Pranayama. I 
did 
  not 
   understand why he did not say The TM-Sidhi-Techniques. Every 
  month 
   we did send our experiences with the TM-Sidhi-Program to MMY, 
 not 
   always telling the truth. It was some kind of Mass-Hypnosis - 
  always 
   waiting to fly in the air. But we did not pay for the courses - 
 so 
   maybe we were among the students that MMY tried out the program 
   with. 
   Ingegerd
   
  
  
  Huh, I would think it would be TM first, not asanas, since that 
is 
  what people were taught prior to the sidhis..
 
 What you think is one thing - what Nandkishore said is another 
 thing. I was wondering myself why he did not mention TM and TM-
Sidhi-
 technique.
 Ingegerd


Perhaps because he thought you meant what priorty to give to the 
program other than TM? At that point, perhaps he and MMY weren't sure 
how effective the TM-Sidhis would be while asanas and pranayama were 
definitely worth doing as a priority. Of course priority can mean 
what you do first, not what is most important...









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Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page

[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 TMorg's success on these bogus studies!! It's psuedo-science, it 
 hasn't been proven satisfactorily. Remember..thru the window of 
 science.  We might as well replace Guru Dev's picture with that of 
 the greatest scientest of our age, the great John Hagelin!!  MMY's 
 biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!


Sour grapes?  :)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread Ingegerd
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
  To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER 
take 
  a 
back
  seat
  to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is 
amazing 
  to 
me.
  
  Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the 
 Sidhi
  program to
  Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement 
when
  Maharishi came
  out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're 
 trying 
  to
  shift blame
  away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots 
 and 
always
  has. Deal
  with it.
  
  I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research 
as 'proof'!  I
  think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers 
  required 
to
  create such an effect. I realize that it was at the 
  suggestion
  of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with 
this 
totally
  premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only 
 need 
  the
  square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to 
shift 
   trends 
in
  the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi 
and 
who's the
  chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains 
everything!
 
 The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or 
the 
  guy 
MMY was
 propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep 
the 
details of that
 whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick 
 trip 
  to 
India
 during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to 
the 
Westerners. So
 Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
experimenting on
 half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this 
  account 
from one of
 them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% 
effect 
  came 
out when
 Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a 
campaign 
 in 
   the 
UK in
 which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if 
you 
  can 
get one of
 your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out 
soon 
   after 
the
 sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. 
It 
  was 
still
 Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory 
preceded 
  the 
research.
 In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was 
  bandied 
about
 before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
countless hours
 discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it 
was 
foisted on him
 by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the 
shots. 
 He 
   was 
tickled
 pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to 
 get 
   10% 
of the
 world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't 
  think 
this
 particular point has much to do with the failure of the 
  movement. 
Although
 the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of 
respectable 
folks who were
 beginning to take it seriously.

A group of Norwegian TM-Teachers, including me, did learn 
the 
 TM-
Sidhi-Techniques in 1978 directly from MMY, for free. MMY 
gave 
  us 
the techniques and explained how they worked. Nandkishore 
was 
sometimes with him. Once we asked a question to Nandkishore: 
If 
  we 
do not have time to do the whole program, what should we 
give 
priority. His answer was: The Asanas and the Pranayama. I 
 did 
   not 
understand why he did not say The TM-Sidhi-Techniques. 
Every 
   month 
we did send our experiences with the TM-Sidhi-Program to 
MMY, 
  not 
always telling the truth. It was some kind of Mass-Hypnosis -
 
   always 
waiting to fly in the air. But we did not pay for the 
courses - 
  so 
maybe we were among the students that MMY tried out the 
program 
with. 
Ingegerd

   
   
   Huh, I would think it would be TM first, not asanas, since 
that 
 is 
   what people were taught prior to the sidhis..
  
  What you think is one thing - what Nandkishore said is another 
  thing. I was wondering myself why he did not mention TM and TM-
 Sidhi-
  technique.
  Ingegerd
 
 
 Perhaps because he thought you meant what priorty to give to the 
 program other than TM? At that point, perhaps he and MMY weren't 
sure 
 how effective the TM-Sidhis would be while asanas and pranayama 
were 
 definitely 

[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread dhamiltony2k5

MMY's
 biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:


Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of
course...

Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this clamouring 
for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before they 
went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have just 
given you the key to the universe and you want advanced techniques?

On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali Yoga 
Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how you do 
the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he came 
along with this back then.  
You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with any 
of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   The 
same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate is 
taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is tradmarked 
or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  

As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had become so 
effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to supplant the 
whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from those 
early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  It 
was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I was 
there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that was 
a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old TMorg as 
a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became the 
intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became about 
real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?

Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  snip
  
   The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the 
guy 
  MMY was
   propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
  details of that
   whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip 
to 
  India
   during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
  Westerners. So
   Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
  experimenting on
   half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this 
account 
  from one of
   them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect 
came 
  out when
   Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in 
 the 
  UK in
   which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you 
can 
  get one of
   your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon 
 after 
  the
   sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It 
was 
  still
   Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded 
the 
  research.
   In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was 
bandied 
  about
   before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
 countless 
  hours
   discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
  foisted on him
   by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He 
 was 
  tickled
   pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 
 10% 
  of the
   world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't 
think 
  this
   particular point has much to do with the failure of the 
movement. 
  Although
   the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable 
 folks 
  who were
   beginning to take it seriously.
  
  Thanks Rick, for the History lesson, I needed it. At any rate, 
it 
  really 
  supports my contention that MMY has rested the entire welfare of 
 the 
  TMorg's success on these bogus studies!! It's psuedo-science, it 
  hasn't been proven satisfactorily. Remember..thru the window of 
  science.  We might as well replace Guru Dev's picture with that 
of 
  the greatest scientest of our age, the great John Hagelin!!  
MMY's 
  biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's 
program!
 
 
 
 Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of 
 course...








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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   
   To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER 
 take 
   a 
 back
   seat
   to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is 
 amazing 
   to 
 me.
   
   Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the 
  Sidhi
   program to
   Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement 
 when
   Maharishi came
   out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're 
  trying 
   to
   shift blame
   away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the 
shots 
  and 
 always
   has. Deal
   with it.
   
   I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research 
 as 'proof'!  I
   think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers 
   required 
 to
   create such an effect. I realize that it was at the 
   suggestion
   of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with 
 this 
 totally
   premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only 
  need 
   the
   square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to 
 shift 
trends 
 in
   the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi 
 and 
 who's the
   chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains 
 everything!
  
  The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or 
 the 
   guy 
 MMY was
  propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep 
 the 
 details of that
  whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick 
  trip 
   to 
 India
  during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to 
 the 
 Westerners. So
  Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
 experimenting on
  half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this 
   account 
 from one of
  them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% 
 effect 
   came 
 out when
  Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a 
 campaign 
  in 
the 
 UK in
  which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if 
 you 
   can 
 get one of
  your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out 
 soon 
after 
 the
  sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that 
point. 
 It 
   was 
 still
  Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory 
 preceded 
   the 
 research.
  In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was 
   bandied 
 about
  before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
 countless hours
  discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it 
 was 
 foisted on him
  by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the 
 shots. 
  He 
was 
 tickled
  pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having 
to 
  get 
10% 
 of the
  world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I 
don't 
   think 
 this
  particular point has much to do with the failure of the 
   movement. 
 Although
  the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of 
 respectable 
 folks who were
  beginning to take it seriously.
 
 A group of Norwegian TM-Teachers, including me, did learn 
 the 
  TM-
 Sidhi-Techniques in 1978 directly from MMY, for free. MMY 
 gave 
   us 
 the techniques and explained how they worked. Nandkishore 
 was 
 sometimes with him. Once we asked a question to 
Nandkishore: 
 If 
   we 
 do not have time to do the whole program, what should we 
 give 
 priority. His answer was: The Asanas and the Pranayama. 
I 
  did 
not 
 understand why he did not say The TM-Sidhi-Techniques. 
 Every 
month 
 we did send our experiences with the TM-Sidhi-Program to 
 MMY, 
   not 
 always telling the truth. It was some kind of Mass-
Hypnosis -
  
always 
 waiting to fly in the air. But we did not pay for the 
 courses - 
   so 
 maybe we were among the students that MMY tried out the 
 program 
 with. 
 Ingegerd
 


Huh, I would think it would be TM first, not asanas, since 
 that 
  is 
what people were taught prior to the sidhis..
   
   What you think is one thing - what Nandkishore said is another 
   thing. I was wondering myself why he did not mention TM 

[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 MMY's
  biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:
 
 
 Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of
 course...
 
 Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this 
clamouring 
 for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before they 
 went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have just 
 given you the key to the universe and you want advanced techniques?
 
 On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali 
Yoga 
 Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how you 
do 
 the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he came 
 along with this back then.  
 You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with any 
 of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   The 
 same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate is 
 taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is 
tradmarked 
 or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  
 
 As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
 dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had become 
so 
 effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to supplant 
the 
 whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from those 
 early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  It 
 was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I was 
 there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that was 
 a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old TMorg 
as 
 a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became the 
 intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became about 
 real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?
 
 Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug
 
 

But look at the numbers. In its heyday, the TMO was teaching perhaps 
a million people a year. That figure wasn't going to last, given the 
competition from the relaxation response and other meditation 
techniques. Even if it had, if you believe the original 1% ME figure, 
you would need to teach 60 million people TM who would be STILL 
PRACTICING for the TMO to have a permanent, long-term effect. That 
would have taken many decades of work to attain --at least 60 to 10o 
years if everyone was a TBer, and more like a 2or 3 centuries or so 
otherwise.

Now, with the sqrt of 1% effect, this time-period would be shortened 
to a period of a year or two as soon as the money was collected and 
the facilities built.

While you can argue that the decision to go for the sqrt ME effect 
with the inherent greed factor of trying to collect 100's of millions 
or even billionsof dollars, has destroyed the TMO (I'm not convinced 
of that yet), you can't aruge that it would take many decades to 
centuries to attain the same theoretical effect by going the way 
things were going in the mid-70's.

To believe that the TMO would survive past MMY's life long enough to 
teach 60-300 million people is at least as optimistic as believing 
that the TMO may yet attain its current goals, which are more 
workable, on their face.

And that 60-300 million required is the BEST-CASE scenario. With a 
90% attrition rate, it might really be impossible to teach enough 
people so that 1% of the world's population would be practicing TM on 
a regular basis.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 MMY's
  biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:
 
 
 Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of
 course...
 
 Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this 
clamouring 
 for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before they 
 went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have just 
 given you the key to the universe and you want advanced techniques?
 
 On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali 
Yoga 
 Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how you 
do 
 the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he came 
 along with this back then.  
 You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with any 
 of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   The 
 same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate is 
 taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is 
tradmarked 
 or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  
 
 As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
 dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had become 
so 
 effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to supplant 
the 
 whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from those 
 early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  It 
 was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I was 
 there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that was 
 a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old TMorg 
as 
 a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became the 
 intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became about 
 real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?
 
 Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug

 
 Seems right to me, I don't question his intentions, just his 
administrative ability. BTW, I doubt most Siddhas do samyama from the 
level of the transcendent, far from it! IMHO. Billyg.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  MMY's
   biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's 
program!
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:
  
  
  Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of
  course...
  
  Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this 
 clamouring 
  for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before they 
  went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have just 
  given you the key to the universe and you want advanced 
techniques?
  
  On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali 
 Yoga 
  Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how you 
 do 
  the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he came 
  along with this back then.  
  You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with 
any 
  of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   
The 
  same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate is 
  taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is 
 tradmarked 
  or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  
  
  As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
  dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had become 
 so 
  effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to supplant 
 the 
  whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from 
those 
  early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  
It 
  was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I 
was 
  there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that 
was 
  a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old TMorg 
 as 
  a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became the 
  intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became about 
  real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?
  
  Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug
  
  
 
 But look at the numbers. In its heyday, the TMO was teaching 
perhaps 
 a million people a year. That figure wasn't going to last, given 
the 
 competition from the relaxation response and other meditation 
 techniques. Even if it had, if you believe the original 1% ME 
figure, 
 you would need to teach 60 million people TM who would be STILL 
 PRACTICING for the TMO to have a permanent, long-term effect. That 
 would have taken many decades of work to attain --at least 60 to 
10o 
 years if everyone was a TBer, and more like a 2or 3 centuries or so 
 otherwise.
 
 Now, with the sqrt of 1% effect, this time-period would be 
shortened 
 to a period of a year or two as soon as the money was collected and 
 the facilities built.
 
 While you can argue that the decision to go for the sqrt ME effect 
 with the inherent greed factor of trying to collect 100's of 
millions 
 or even billionsof dollars, has destroyed the TMO (I'm not 
convinced 
 of that yet), you can't aruge that it would take many decades to 
 centuries to attain the same theoretical effect by going the way 
 things were going in the mid-70's.
 
 To believe that the TMO would survive past MMY's life long enough 
to 
 teach 60-300 million people is at least as optimistic as believing 
 that the TMO may yet attain its current goals, which are more 
 workable, on their face.
 
 And that 60-300 million required is the BEST-CASE scenario. With a 
 90% attrition rate, it might really be impossible to teach enough 
 people so that 1% of the world's population would be practicing TM 
on 
 a regular basis.

That is nothing but *short-sighted*, if it's worth having it's worth 
waiting for and doing right. MMY always wanted a shortcut since he 
was in a *hurry*, did the Catholic Church become what it is today (in 
numbers) overnight.NO way!  Where's the long term 
strategy, can't we walk and chew gum at the same time?  No, MMY, went 
for broke, it's all or nothing!  Looks like nothing at this point, at 
least in a macro sense!  Billyg.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


snips 
  The question was quite clear, including the whole program with TM 
  and everything. It will only be speculations about what he meant. 
  But the answer was that if we did not have time for the whole 
  program, at least do Asanas and Pranayama. Maybe Nandkishore 
 belongs 
  to another Indian Tradition where Asanas and Pranayama is the 
most 
  important?? Maybe other things. The first thing - I skipped when 
I 
  was short of time was Asanas and Pranayama - and gave the 
priority 
  to TM and TM-Sidhi. My experience is that the effect of TM is 
  stronger when I do Asanas and Pranayama.
  Ingegerd

As is mine, interesting story. Who knows if MMY is even enlightened, 
do you? Doesn't really matter to me! Billyg.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  MMY's
   biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's 
program!
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:
  
  
  Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of
  course...
  
  Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this 
 clamouring 
  for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before they 
  went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have just 
  given you the key to the universe and you want advanced 
techniques?
  
  On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali 
 Yoga 
  Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how you 
 do 
  the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he came 
  along with this back then.  
  You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with 
any 
  of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   
The 
  same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate is 
  taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is 
 tradmarked 
  or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  
  
  As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
  dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had become 
 so 
  effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to supplant 
 the 
  whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from 
those 
  early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  
It 
  was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I 
was 
  there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that 
was 
  a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old TMorg 
 as 
  a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became the 
  intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became about 
  real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?
  
  Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug
 
  
  Seems right to me, I don't question his intentions, just his 
 administrative ability. BTW, I doubt most Siddhas do samyama from 
the 
 level of the transcendent, far from it! IMHO. Billyg.


ANd this is an issue because...?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[...]
  
  While you can argue that the decision to go for the sqrt ME 
effect 
  with the inherent greed factor of trying to collect 100's of 
 millions 
  or even billionsof dollars, has destroyed the TMO (I'm not 
 convinced 
  of that yet), you can't aruge that it would take many decades to 
  centuries to attain the same theoretical effect by going the way 
  things were going in the mid-70's.
  
  To believe that the TMO would survive past MMY's life long enough 
 to 
  teach 60-300 million people is at least as optimistic as 
believing 
  that the TMO may yet attain its current goals, which are more 
  workable, on their face.
  
  And that 60-300 million required is the BEST-CASE scenario. With 
a 
  90% attrition rate, it might really be impossible to teach enough 
  people so that 1% of the world's population would be practicing 
TM 
 on 
  a regular basis.
 
 That is nothing but *short-sighted*, if it's worth having it's 
worth 
 waiting for and doing right. MMY always wanted a shortcut since he 
 was in a *hurry*, did the Catholic Church become what it is today 
(in 
 numbers) overnight.NO way!  Where's the long term 
 strategy, can't we walk and chew gum at the same time?  No, MMY, 
went 
 for broke, it's all or nothing!  Looks like nothing at this point, 
at 
 least in a macro sense!  Billyg.


Patience, says the guy who sells meditation CDs online...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-13 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   
   MMY's
biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's 
 program!
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig wrote:
   
   
   Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, 
of
   course...
   
   Yeah, on my siddhi course w/MMY at the end there was this 
  clamouring 
   for people to receive advanced TM techniques from MMY before 
they 
   went home.  He laughed derisively at this and said, i have 
just 
   given you the key to the universe and you want advanced 
 techniques?
   
   On that course he gave these great lectures about the patanjali 
  Yoga 
   Sutras and the siddhis.  Really great understanding about how 
you 
  do 
   the siddhis in form.  In the sequence of things i am glad he 
came 
   along with this back then.  
   You can use the form of Patanjali to all kinds of good end with 
 any 
   of the maha vedic mantras or just simple spiritual practice.   
 The 
   same kind of patanjalaic description for how you can meditate 
is 
   taught with Karunamayi also.  It is not like Patanjali is 
  tradmarked 
   or MMY taught anything new.  He definitely packaged it.  
   
   As for the long decline, it was very much in his hands as he 
   dismantled the teaching organization back in 1977 that had 
become 
  so 
   effective to that point.  He (MMY) made the decision to 
supplant 
  the 
   whole thing with the chaos of the returning vedic atoms from 
 those 
   early TM-siddhi 'governor training' courses (mid  late 70's).  
 It 
   was a monumental decision which was very human and all his.  I 
 was 
   there and watched him do it.  It was pretty clearly a whim that 
 was 
   a bad administrative choice of his.  Yes, he traded the old 
TMorg 
  as 
   a teaching org. for a series of cash cows of what then became 
the 
   intervening years of the TMorg.  From then it really became 
about 
   real estate and profit-centers for him.  The great teacher?
   
   Jai Guru Dev,  -Doug
  
   
   Seems right to me, I don't question his intentions, just his 
  administrative ability. BTW, I doubt most Siddhas do samyama from 
 the 
  level of the transcendent, far from it! IMHO. Billyg.
 
 
 ANd this is an issue because...?

It goes directly to the effectiveness of the technique!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-12 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take a back 
seat
  to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing to me.
 
 Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the Sidhi 
program to
 Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when 
Maharishi came
 out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're trying to 
shift blame
 away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots and always 
has. Deal
 with it.

I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research as 'proof'!  I 
think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers required to 
create such an effect. I realize that it was at the suggestion 
of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this totally 
premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only need the 
square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift trends in 
the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and who's the 
chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-12 Thread Rick Archer
on 11/12/05 10:56 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take a back
 seat
 to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing to me.
 
 Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the Sidhi
 program to
 Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when
 Maharishi came
 out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're trying to
 shift blame
 away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots and always
 has. Deal
 with it.
 
 I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research as 'proof'!  I
 think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers required to
 create such an effect. I realize that it was at the suggestion
 of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this totally
 premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only need the
 square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift trends in
 the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and who's the
 chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!

The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy MMY was
propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the details of that
whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to India
during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the Westerners. So
Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began experimenting on
half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this account from one of
them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came out when
Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in the UK in
which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you can get one of
your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon after the
sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was still
Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded the research.
In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied about
before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent countless hours
discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was foisted on him
by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He was tickled
pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 10% of the
world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think this
particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement. Although
the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable folks who were
beginning to take it seriously.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-12 Thread wmurphy77
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip

 The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy 
MMY was
 propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
details of that
 whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to 
India
 during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
Westerners. So
 Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
experimenting on
 half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this account 
from one of
 them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came 
out when
 Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in the 
UK in
 which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you can 
get one of
 your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon after 
the
 sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was 
still
 Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded the 
research.
 In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied 
about
 before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent countless 
hours
 discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
foisted on him
 by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He was 
tickled
 pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 10% 
of the
 world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think 
this
 particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement. 
Although
 the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable folks 
who were
 beginning to take it seriously.

Thanks Rick, for the History lesson, I needed it. At any rate, it 
really 
supports my contention that MMY has rested the entire welfare of the 
TMorg's success on these bogus studies!! It's psuedo-science, it 
hasn't been proven satisfactorily. Remember..thru the window of 
science.  We might as well replace Guru Dev's picture with that of 
the greatest scientest of our age, the great John Hagelin!!  MMY's 
biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  on 11/12/05 9:33 PM, wmurphy77 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   To think that the primary technique of TM would EVER take a 
back 
 seat
   to Haglin's pseudo-scientific Siddhi's program is amazing to me.
  
  Why are you attributing ownership or authorship of the Sidhi 
 program to
  Hagelin? Hagelin wasn't a major player in the movement when 
 Maharishi came
  out with the sidhi program. Sounds to me like you're trying to 
 shift blame
  away from Maharishi. Common mistake. He calls the shots and 
always 
 has. Deal
  with it.
 
 I'm implying that MMY has swallowed Hagelin's research as 'proof'!  
I 
 think the jury is still out as to the relative numbers required to 
 create such an effect. I realize that it was at the suggestion 
 of 'another' yogi (apparently) that MMY came out with this totally 
 premature yogic flying, etc. MMY really thinks you only need the 
 square root of 1% of the population (yada, yada) to shift trends in 
 the world...BASED ON HAGELIN'S RESEARCH! Who's the Yogi and who's 
the 
 chela now???  Hummm, think about it, it explains everything!



Heh. Hagelin was the LAST researcher onthe ME not the first.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: How MMY sold a diamond (TM) for a handful of spinach...

2005-11-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
 
  The way I heard the story, it was the Shankaracharya, or the guy 
 MMY was
  propping up as the Shankaracharya (I can't begin to keep the 
 details of that
  whole mess straight) who suggested to MMY, during a quick trip to 
 India
  during the Fiuggi course, that he offer something more to the 
 Westerners. So
  Maharishi pulled out a copy of the Yoga Sutras and began 
 experimenting on
  half a dozen of the M-group types around him (I got this account 
 from one of
  them). The sidhis didn't come out until 1977. The 1% effect came 
 out when
  Domash was reigning physicist in 1974. There was a campaign in 
the 
 UK in
  which one of the slogans was you can be one of the 99 if you can 
 get one of
  your friends to be the one. Square root of 1% came out soon 
after 
 the
  sidhis, and Domash or Hagelin was physicist at that point. It was 
 still
  Domash until about 1980. Anyway, I think the theory preceded the 
 research.
  In other words, the theory of 1% or square root of 1% was bandied 
 about
  before any societal testing was done. And Maharishi spent 
countless 
 hours
  discussing this and lecturing about it. It's not like it was 
 foisted on him
  by cunning physicists. As always, he was calling the shots. He 
was 
 tickled
  pink to get a theory that would absolve him from having to get 
10% 
 of the
  world's population meditating, or even 1%. Anyway, I don't think 
 this
  particular point has much to do with the failure of the movement. 
 Although
  the advent of the sidhis sure scared off a lot of respectable 
folks 
 who were
  beginning to take it seriously.
 
 Thanks Rick, for the History lesson, I needed it. At any rate, it 
 really 
 supports my contention that MMY has rested the entire welfare of 
the 
 TMorg's success on these bogus studies!! It's psuedo-science, it 
 hasn't been proven satisfactorily. Remember..thru the window of 
 science.  We might as well replace Guru Dev's picture with that of 
 the greatest scientest of our age, the great John Hagelin!!  MMY's 
 biggest mistake was, is, and always will be, the Siddhi's program!



Unless you happen to find the Siddhis program of personal use, of 
course...





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