subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Japa"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig
  sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
  jstein@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
  Stanley 
j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
  Stanley
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
  bout of unstressing 
he
couldn't handle.
   
   If it makes you feel better to believe
  that, be my guest.
  
  
  Do you think it isn't the case?
  
 Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
  can't help but try to
 pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
  held TM worldview

Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
  reasonable
question given your initial would no longer
  tolerate
explanation for why you stopped.
   
   
   Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
  Basically, he's said: 
   I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
  explanation for
   that save unstressing?
  
  LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
  deeper and way
  more looking within than anything I ever experienced
  with TM.
 
 Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
 everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
 some.


Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have dysfunctional 
thalamuses.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:

 Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
 couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
   
   That's exactly the kind of response these people
   can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
   the duration of their present incarnation. They're
   locked into preserving their self-image of small
   self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
   it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
   and for several incarnations past that point. They
   just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
  
  So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
 
 I'm not sure what your point is.
 
 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
 a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
 reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
 that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
 preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
 that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
 Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
 gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
 pleasant side effects of TM.
 
 I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
 but it's what I believe.


Your history is certainly correct, but the conclusion is debateable.  What is 
YOUR explation 
for the less-than-pleasant sdie effects of TM?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
  a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
  reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
  that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
  preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
  that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
  Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
  gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
  pleasant side effects of TM.
  
  I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
  but it's what I believe.
 
 Your history is certainly correct, but the conclusion is 
 debateable.  

Sure.

 What is YOUR explation for the less-than-pleasant sdie 
 effects of TM?

A technique that was cobbled together from several 
other existing techniques and given to guinea pigs 
(us) to test. As opposed to a technique or techniques 
that have been taught the same way and the effects 
noted and documented for centuries.

Again, I'm not suggesting that you believe this, but
I tend to. My belief is based on seeing a fair number
of TMers who complained about heavy unstressing for
years learn a different style of meditation, one with
more tradition behind it, and have all of the things
they considered unstressing go away completely within
a couple of days, never to reappear. This while their
subjective experience both of transcendence during
meditation and benefits after meditation increased.

I'm not trying to argue with you here, BTW. I'm just
trying to explain where I'm coming from whenever the
issue of unstressing comes up. I rejected the 
stress prevents enlightenment theory a couple of
decades ago, so I really don't hold many of the
core assumptions that a person who believes the TM
explanation does.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have 
 dysfunctional thalamuses.

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I just
had to comment that the word 'thalamus' is one of those
words that probably was never intended to be used in 
the plural. 'Thalamuses' sounds really silly.  :-)







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On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" sparaig@ wrote: Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he couldn't handle. If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest. That's exactly the kind of response these people can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for the duration of their present incarnation. They're locked into preserving their self-image of small self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo, and for several incarnations past that point. They just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend. So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase? I'm not sure what your point is. 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than- pleasant side effects of TM. I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this, but it's what I believe. Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources. It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g. Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig
  sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
  jstein@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
  Stanley 
j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
  Stanley
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
  sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
  bout of unstressing 
he
couldn't handle.
   
   If it makes you feel better to believe
  that, be my guest.
  
  
  Do you think it isn't the case?
  
 Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
  can't help but try to
 pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
  held TM worldview

Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
  reasonable
question given your initial would no longer
  tolerate
explanation for why you stopped.
   
   
   Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
  Basically, he's said: 
   I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
  explanation for
   that save unstressing?
  
  LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
  deeper and way
  more looking within than anything I ever experienced
  with TM.
 
 Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
 everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
 some.

And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not
for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TM
TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and
unwilling. The TM cultist mindset can't deal with the fact that for
some people, TM isn't the Universal Bestest Solution to Everything. TM
served me well until it didn't. There was no weakness or unwillingness
on my part; I'd simply reached a point where I required a different
source of spiritual nourishment. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

On Jul 12, 2006, at 6:50 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:What is YOUR explation for the "less-than-pleasant sdie effects of TM?" A technique that was cobbled together from several other existing techniques and given to guinea pigs (us) to test. As opposed to a technique or techniques that have been taught the same way and the effects noted and documented for centuries.Indeed. There are several prerequisites that are supposed to occur *before* mantra diksha. One is correct posture, the other is pranayama and correct breathing.In this sense Panditiji Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has restored the purity of the tradition by placing pranayama and purification before mantra initiation. Maybe that's why he has so much more support of nature. ;-))) Again, I'm not suggesting that you believe this, but I tend to. My belief is based on seeing a fair number of TMers who complained about "heavy unstressing" for years learn a different style of meditation, one with more tradition behind it, and have all of the things they considered "unstressing" go away completely within a couple of days, never to reappear.Yes, I've noticed the same thing. This while their subjective experience both of transcendence during meditation and benefits after meditation increased. I'm not trying to argue with you here, BTW. I'm just trying to explain where I'm coming from whenever the issue of "unstressing" comes up. I rejected the "stress prevents enlightenment" theory a couple of decades ago, so I really don't hold many of the core assumptions that a person who believes the TM explanation does. This would probably be high on the list of TM Fundamentalist beliefs.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  Well gee. TM probably doesn't work with people who have 
  dysfunctional thalamuses.
 
 I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I just
 had to comment that the word 'thalamus' is one of those
 words that probably was never intended to be used in 
 the plural. 'Thalamuses' sounds really silly.  :-)


Sorry. Have thalalumi on the brain right now. The first part of the samadhi 
animation is to 
show the generic high-level brain activity during a visual stimulation. The 
lateral 
geninulate nucleus of the thalamus is the main gateway into the rest of the 
brain for visual 
input so I've been reading a jillion articles and websites the past few days. 
LGNs? LGNs? We 
don't need no stinkin' LGNs.

As to what this has to do with samadhi? Recall that meditation is sometimes 
described as 
withdrawing of the senses like a turtle draws its legs into its shell. The 
thalmus is the 
gateway for all the senses except smell. If a meditation technique somehow 
lowered the 
overall activity of the thalamus, this would result in withdrawal of the 
senses.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
 a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
 reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
 that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
 preventing the realization of enlightenment.

In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
concepts are somehow unique to TM.

 I think
 that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
 Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
 gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
 pleasant side effects of TM.

Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
purification.

MMY borrowed the terms stress and unstressing
from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  Impurities
sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
of themselves as impure, as if there's something
wrong with them.

Just as one example of what MMY teaches about stress
being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
Kripalu Yoga:

Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we have 
forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are defined 
by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic sense 
of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. Purification 
consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga calls 
chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.

When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a thick 
filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible to 
see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why approaches 
to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind prove 
superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, it 
can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in function. 
Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or areas 
of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, vitality 
rises to a new level.

The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. In 
the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system that 
has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated with 
catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond perceived 
limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. Although 
increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the mind 
requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.

http://www.kripalu.org/kyta_artcl.php?id=207






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and unwilling. Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's notfor the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the TMTB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak andunwilling. Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 snip
  I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
  outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
  transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I
  felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of 
  the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from 
  being present in the here and now. 
 
 You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
 talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
 conscious.

The terminology of egoic grasping and aversion came from an Adyashanti
essay I read. But, it perfectly describes what was going on inside me.
Being present in the here and now is definitely a new age platitude,
but it perfectly describes the sense of free-flaoting in now that I
experience as a result of my Waking Down brand Second Birth Awakening.
Escapism of transcending is my own wording.

To flesh my story out a bit, my big issue was not accepting myself as
I am. I seriously believed TM would make me str8. After all, if
homosexuality is such an egregious violation of Natural Law, as I was
led to believe from ideas floating around the TM community, then TM
should be able to fix that. So, in that context, TM was feeding my
aversion dynamic. I dropped TM because it was, for me, a spiritual
mismatch, and I'd reached the point where every fiber of my being was
making that clear.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 12, 2006, at 3:49 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
 
  Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
  couldn't handle.
 
 
  If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
 
 
  That's exactly the kind of response these people
  can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
  the duration of their present incarnation. They're
  locked into preserving their self-image of small
  self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
  it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
  and for several incarnations past that point. They
  just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
 
 
  So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
 
 
  I'm not sure what your point is.
 
  'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
  a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
  reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
  that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
  preventing the realization of enlightenment. I think
  that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
  Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it
  gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
  pleasant side effects of TM.
 
  I'm not suggesting that you have to believe this,
  but it's what I believe.
 
 Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced  
 meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.  
 It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental  
 mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.  
 Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).


The term is relaxation-induced anxiety and it is in the DMS-IV as a possible 
side-effect 
of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the qi-gong psychotic 
reaction 
BTW. 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa



On Jul 12, 2006, at 8:10 AM, sparaig wrote:Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced   meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.   It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental   mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.   Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).   The term is "relaxation-induced anxiety" and it is in the DMS-IV as a possible side-effect  of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the "qi-gong psychotic reaction"  BTW.  Are you implying that TMO usage of the word, unstressing, is meant to refer to "relaxation-induced anxiety" as described in the DSM-IV (or DSM-IV R)?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
 
  And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's
  not for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is
  that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me
  being weak and unwilling.
 
 
 Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional thalamus! :-)
 
 I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed if I were you! :-)))

Waking Down must have fixed it because I can meditate all I want now.
Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to do with it.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Peter



--- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
  
   And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in
 fact, I'd say it's
   not for the vast majority of people). What bugs
 me, though, is
   that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as
 a case of me
   being weak and unwilling.
  
  
  Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional
 thalamus! :-)
  
  I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed
 if I were you! :-)))
 
 Waking Down must have fixed it because I can
 meditate all I want now.
 Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to
 do with it.

No, no! There MUST be something wrong with you
because...because...well, just because!



 
 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  snip
   I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It
   was outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism 
   of transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing 
   what I felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another 
   piece of the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, 
   preventing me from being present in the here and now. 
  
  You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
  talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
  conscious.
 
 The terminology of egoic grasping and aversion came from an 
 Adyashanti essay I read. But, it perfectly describes what was going 
 on inside me.

 Being present in the here and now is definitely a new age 
 platitude, but it perfectly describes the sense of free-flaoting in 
 now that I experience as a result of my Waking Down brand Second 
 Birth Awakening. Escapism of transcending is my own wording.
 
 To flesh my story out a bit, my big issue was not accepting myself 
 as I am. I seriously believed TM would make me str8. After all, if
 homosexuality is such an egregious violation of Natural Law, as I 
 was led to believe from ideas floating around the TM community, 
 then TM should be able to fix that. So, in that context, TM was 
 feeding my aversion dynamic. I dropped TM because it was, for me, a 
 spiritual mismatch, and I'd reached the point where every fiber of 
 my being was making that clear.

Um, OK.  I'm truly astonished you ever allowed
yourself to be led to believe such a thing.

My own experience with some of the nutty social
ideas floating around the TMO was that at first
I had a tendency to give them some credence, at
least to wonder whether they *might* be correct.

But the longer I was meditating, the clearer it
became to me that there was zero need for me to
change my thinking to accord with those ideas.

I see absolutely no problem with both doing my
program and disagreeing strenuously with some
of MMY's notions of proper behavior.  I'll happily
go along with his Don't do what you think might
be wrong and leave it at that--*I'm* the one who
gets to do that thinking and make those judgments.

As I've said before, as far as I'm concerned MMY
has the Indian sign, as it were, on the nature
and mechanics of consciousness.  Anything else
is up for grabs.  He isn't someone I look to for
advice about how to live my life.

As far as your escapism of transcending is 
concerned, my own experience is that regular
transcending facilitates my ability to *avoid*
escapism when it comes to what is going on in my
life and strengthens my ability to deal with it
head-on.

YMMV.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread nablus108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
 
  And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in fact, I'd say it's not
  for the vast majority of people). What bugs me, though, is that the 
TM
  TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case of me being weak and
  unwilling.
 
 
Many people are simply not made for doing TM. Also on Purusha this was 
evident. After Boppard Maharishi commented: The could not sit, so they 
had to run. He saw that 3 levels of Purusha was necessary: One to be 
devoted to silence (I guess the boys that now are in the Himalayas), 
one to be active on projects, and one group somehow in the middle, 
coordinating operations.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread nablus108

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 snip
  'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
  a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
  reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
  that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
  preventing the realization of enlightenment.
 
 In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
 yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
 fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
 concepts are somehow unique to TM.
 
  I think
  that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
  Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
  gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
  pleasant side effects of TM.
 
 Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
 well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
 typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
 purification.
 
 MMY borrowed the terms stress and unstressing
 from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
 more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  Impurities
 sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
 of themselves as impure, as if there's something
 wrong with them.
 
 Just as one example of what MMY teaches about stress
 being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
 Kripalu Yoga:
 
 Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we have 
 forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
 ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
defined 
 by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
 careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
sense 
 of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. Purification 
 consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga calls 
 chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
 practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
 
 When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a thick 
 filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible to 
 see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
approaches 
 to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind prove 
 superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
 purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
 challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, it 
 can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in function. 
 Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
areas 
 of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
vitality 
 rises to a new level.
 
 The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. In 
 the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
 emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
 feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
that 
 has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
 sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated with 
 catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
perceived 
 limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
 reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. Although 
 increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the mind 
 requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
 pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
 reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
 
Spot on ! 
Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread jim_flanegin

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  snip
   'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
   a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
   reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
   that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
   preventing the realization of enlightenment.
  
  In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
  yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
  fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
  concepts are somehow unique to TM.
  
   I think
   that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
   Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
   gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
   pleasant side effects of TM.
  
  Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
  well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
  typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
  purification.
  
  MMY borrowed the terms stress and unstressing
  from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
  more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  Impurities
  sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
  of themselves as impure, as if there's something
  wrong with them.
  
  Just as one example of what MMY teaches about stress
  being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
  Kripalu Yoga:
  
  Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we 
have 
  forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
  ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
 defined 
  by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, possessions, 
  careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
 sense 
  of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. 
Purification 
  consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga 
calls 
  chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
  practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
  
  When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a 
thick 
  filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible 
to 
  see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
 approaches 
  to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind 
prove 
  superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
  purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
  challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is rapid, 
it 
  can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in 
function. 
  Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
 areas 
  of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
 vitality 
  rises to a new level.
  
  The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. 
In 
  the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
  emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
  feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
 that 
  has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
  sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated 
with 
  catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
 perceived 
  limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
  reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. 
Although 
  increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the 
mind 
  requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
  pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
  reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
  
 Spot on ! 
 Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
 beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
 That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.

Agreed- really perfectly described.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
   snip
'Unstressing,' to me (if you're seriously asking) is
a *made up* phrase that doesn't have much to do with
reality. As we've discussed before, I do not believe
that 'stress' has anything whatsoever to do with
preventing the realization of enlightenment.
   
   In this, just for the record, you're disagreeing with
   yogic theory generally, not just with MMY.  Which is
   fine, but it's misleading to suggest that these
   concepts are somehow unique to TM.
   
I think
that Maharishi coopted the word 'stress' from Hans
Selye and coined the phrase 'unstressing' because it 
gave him an easy way to ignore some of the less-than-
pleasant side effects of TM.
   
   Actually, less-than-pleasant side effects is a very
   well-known concept in the yogic literature; it's
   typically referred to (as MMY sometimes does) as
   purification.
   
   MMY borrowed the terms stress and unstressing
   from Selye, certainly, but the point was to put a
   more neutral spin on the phenomenon.  Impurities
   sounds like a value judgment; nobody wants to think
   of themselves as impure, as if there's something
   wrong with them.
   
   Just as one example of what MMY teaches about stress
   being found in other yogic contexts, from a page about
   Kripalu Yoga:
   
   Yoga teaches that our core problem stems from the fact that we 
 have 
   forgotten who and what we really are. This avidya, or spiritual 
   ignorance, is the most subtle impurity. Convinced that we are 
  defined 
   by our bodies, beliefs, personalities, preferences, 
possessions, 
   careers, and nationalities, we live estranged from an authentic 
  sense 
   of self and cut off from a vital spiritual connection. 
 Purification 
   consists of vidyathe direct experience of spirit. What yoga 
 calls 
   chitta shuddhi or purification of the self-sense, contemporary 
   practitioners refer to as spiritual awakening.
   
   When the body is sluggish and the world is viewed through a 
 thick 
   filter of emotional baggage and mental clutter, it's impossible 
 to 
   see reality clearly and respond appropriately. This is why 
  approaches 
   to healing and growth that don't work to purify body and mind 
 prove 
   superficial. It's important to know, however, that the kind of 
   purification brought on by intensive yoga practice can be a 
   challenging proposition. When the pace of purification is 
rapid, 
 it 
   can lead to a healing crisis and a temporary reduction in 
 function. 
   Common experiences include headaches, nausea, colds, fevers, or 
  areas 
   of soreness that suddenly come and go. As the crisis passes, 
  vitality 
   rises to a new level.
   
   The most potent forms of purification are emotional and mental. 
 In 
   the phenomena called catharsis, purification can cause powerful 
   emotions to surface and break through unconscious barriers to 
   feeling. Catharsis can dramatically cleanse an emotional system 
  that 
   has grown congested and dull. Although it leads to greater 
   sensitivity and balance, feeling the mental content associated 
 with 
   catharsis often pushes you outside comfort zones and beyond 
  perceived 
   limits. Mental purification can similarly lead to insights that 
   reconfigure a mind grown cluttered and compartmentalized. 
 Although 
   increased clarity and creativity is the result, clearing the 
 mind 
   requires bearing the pain of confronting material that has been 
   pushed out of conscious awareness, experiencing inner conflict, 
   reliving past memories, and acknowledging unseen shortcomings.
   
  Spot on ! 
  Who hasn't felt uncomfortable when rounding. But wow, what a 
  beautiful world that unfolded when we came out. 
  That's Tapas; it's not always nice, but the effect is marvellous.
 
 Agreed- really perfectly described.

Just to add something the Eckart Tolle talks about in regard to this 
subject, which he calls the Pain Body
He says the 'pain body' is what holds you back from your 
enlightenment.
He claims that the pain body is actually part and parcel the stucture 
of the ego; 'A Course in Miracles' uses the same analogy, that the 
ego, and it's various forms is what blocks the light of Being from 
shining through completely.
Anyway, Eckart seems to think, that the so-called pain body;
Likes to re-enforce itself; with what Maharishi would call 
unstressing.
In other words, when you are feeling over-shadowed by some emotion or 
some overwheming physical symptom, or anything that you feel 
uncomfortable about- that is the perception of your pain body, being 
felt(Maharishi also, used the term Sleeping Elephants)
Anyway, by continueing to meditate and 'witness' this pain body;
It eventually brings the awareness to whatever needs to be healed and 
released;
So, he says, when someone pushes you button, and you feel like 
attacking back; this will only serve to embolden the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa (deepening experience of 'Pure Consciousness'.

2006-07-12 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
 though. Other comments interleaved below.
 
 --- Mark msilver1951@ wrote:
 
  Is it possible that the criticism of
  TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
  many is because the Being by
  it's nature doesn't do anything 
 
 I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.
 
 Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
 a rule, we don't notice it. But Maharishi says 
 (couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
 and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
 awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
 life-supporting effect influences our activity. 
 
 With me so far?
 
 What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
 notice anything from TM, is it because 
 consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
 or because consciousness is for some reason 
 not enriching that person's activity, or because 
 the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
 Or what?
 
 (I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
 one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
 with, too.)
 
  but must be enjoined with a relative agent
  such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 
 
 I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
 to provide some faint relativity against which to 
 notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
 the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
 warm, so to speak.

I have found through the years, of meditating;
That in the beginning, transending does seem brief and 'flat'.
But, with continued practice, it begins to enliven, and take on a 
depth.
This depth continues to increase.
The depth of the experience of pure consciousness, is hard to explain 
in relative terms; because it's really not dependent on anything of a 
relative nature.
In other words it is just your own awareness itself, woken up; and 
you begin to notice a greater depth to it, as your experience of it, 
opens up more and more.
The brain begins to function as a whole; both the left and right 
hemispheres of the brain sychronize.
The thought process begins to take a back seat, to the 'Witnessing'
process;
That is, when the depth of being is held in the awareness 
spontaneously;
That experience in and of itself, is blissful;
Because the mind is quiet and full( whole brain functioning)
And mostly the energy goes to the heart:
Which has become free to observe and to feel the moment;
In all of it's glory...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 --- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
  vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
   
And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in
  fact, I'd say it's
not for the vast majority of people). What bugs
  me, though, is
that the TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as
  a case of me
being weak and unwilling.
   
   
   Hey, lets be fair, you could have a dysfunctional
  thalamus! :-)
   
   I'd get an EEG next time you get your oil changed
  if I were you! :-)))
  
  Waking Down must have fixed it because I can
  meditate all I want now.
  Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to
  do with it.
 
 No, no! There MUST be something wrong with you
 because...because...well, just because!
 

Whoever said or implied there was something wrong with Alex? I've had periods 
in my life 
where I was afraid to meditate due to the baggage that was welling up. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 12, 2006, at 8:10 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
  Always seemed like a blanket term for 'side effects from unbalanced
  meditation practice' and of course that could come from many sources.
  It would be interesting to know if other groups who practice mental
  mantra meditation experience so many negative side effects (e.g.
  Himalayan Institute, Sahaja Samadhi/SSRS, etc.).
 
 
 
  The term is relaxation-induced anxiety and it is in the DMS-IV as  
  a possible side-effect
  of ANY form of relaxation.  The DSM-IV also refers to the qi-gong  
  psychotic reaction
  BTW.
 
 
 Are you implying that TMO usage of the word, unstressing, is meant to  
 refer to relaxation-induced anxiety as described in the DSM-IV (or  
 DSM-IV R)?


No, that the DSM-IV identifies unstressing and calls it relaxation-induced 
anxiety.

Unstressing comes from ANY form of relaxation, according to MMY. The deeper the 
level 
of rest, the deeper-rooted the stresses that are healed, and the more intense 
the 
corresponding mental activity.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-12 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
 
 
  --- Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@
  wrote:
snip
On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:36 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:

 And Waking Down is also not for everyone (in
 fact, I'd say it's not for the vast majority
 of people). What bugs me, though, is that the
 TM TB has to portray my dropping TM as a case
 of me being weak and unwilling.
snip
   Waking Down must have fixed it because I can
   meditate all I want now.
   Or maybe, just *maybe*, my thalamus had nothing to
   do with it.
  
  No, no! There MUST be something wrong with you
  because...because...well, just because!
 
 Whoever said or implied there was something wrong with Alex?

Well, we do know he's paranoid.  ;-)



 I've had periods in my life 
 where I was afraid to meditate due to the baggage that was welling 
up.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but  
 they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
 meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the  
 person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
mental  
 makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't  
 get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with  
 where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of  
 meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait  
 until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.  
 The perspective of time can do wonders.

As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
basis.

The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
in the practice.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
 

  Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
  accomplish  
  anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do  
  anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a  
  mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
 
 There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but  
 they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
 meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the  
 person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental  
 makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't  
 get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with  
 where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of  
 meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait  
 until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.  
 The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I
started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
after that.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Vaj

On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote: Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _ There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't get it*. A constitutional disconnect. It just doesn't click with where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed. The perspective of time can do wonders. In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place after that. That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional and what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Patrick Gillam

Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
though. Other comments interleaved below.

--- Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is it possible that the criticism of
 TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
 many is because the Being by
 it's nature doesn't do anything 

I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.

Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
a rule, we don't notice it. But Maharishi says 
(couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
life-supporting effect influences our activity. 

With me so far?

What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
notice anything from TM, is it because 
consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
or because consciousness is for some reason 
not enriching that person's activity, or because 
the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
Or what?

(I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
with, too.)

 but must be enjoined with a relative agent
 such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 

I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
to provide some faint relativity against which to 
notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
warm, so to speak.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
  There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but  
  they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
  meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the  
  person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
 mental  
  makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't  
  get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with  
  where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of  
  meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait  
  until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.  
  The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
 As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
 recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
 basis.
 
 The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
 in the practice.


Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
 
 
  On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
 
 
 
 
  Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
  accomplish
  anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
  anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
  mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
 
 
  There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
  they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
  meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
  person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
  makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
  get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
  where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
  meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
  until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
  The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
 
  In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
  tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
  major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF when I
  started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
  after that.
 
 
 That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional and  
 what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.


Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he couldn't handle.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  snip
   There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person 
but  
   they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
   meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that 
the  
   person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
  mental  
   makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
doesn't  
   get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click 
with  
   where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form 
of  
   meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to 
wait  
   until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
instructed.  
   The perspective of time can do wonders.
  
  As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
  recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
  basis.
  
  The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
  in the practice.
 
 Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.

That's what TM instruction is.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
  
  
   On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
  
  
  
  
   Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
   accomplish
   anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
   anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
   mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
  
  
   There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
   they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
   meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
   person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
   makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
   get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
   where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
   meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
   until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
   The perspective of time can do wonders.
  
  
   In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
   tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
   major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF
when I
   started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
   after that.
  
  
  That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional
and  
  what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
 
 
 Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
 couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Can't speak to the japa issue. Seems reasonable, 
 though. Other comments interleaved below.
 
 --- Mark msilver1951@ wrote:
 
  Is it possible that the criticism of
  TM, that it doesn't accomplish anything for 
  many is because the Being by
  it's nature doesn't do anything 
 
 I would agree with this ^, and suggest a wrinkle.
 
 Consciousness is flat and transparent. Hence, as 
 a rule, we don't notice it. But Maharishi says 
 (couldn't resist) pure consciousness is the source 
 and substrate of activity, and the greater one's 
 awareness of consciousness, the more of that 
 life-supporting effect influences our activity. 
 
 With me so far?
 
 What I'm getting at is this. If a person doesn't 
 notice anything from TM, is it because 
 consciousness is by nature flat and unnoticeable, 
 or because consciousness is for some reason 
 not enriching that person's activity, or because 
 the whole consciousness-activity link is fallacious? 
 Or what?
 
 (I suppose one could argue that TM doesn't allow 
 one to experience silent, flat awareness to begin 
 with, too.)
 
  but must be enjoined with a relative agent
  such as a mantra that would give It a relative focus. 
 
 I thought the TM-Sidhi program was supposed 
 to provide some faint relativity against which to 
 notice consciousness moving. It's the activity in 
 the bathwater that makes one notice the water's 
 warm, so to speak.


My understanding is that TM cultures the mind to transcend from 
grosser levels of thinking to more and more subtle levels of 
thinking; and to transcend the thinking mind, altogether...
Then with the introduction of Sanyama;
The silence of being established, and the ability to trascend from 
gross thinking to subtle thinking;
One learns in Sanyama to introduce a sutra at the finest level of 
thought, and allow it to vibrate in the Being of your on Being; the 
universal so it becomes non-localized.
Then from the state of pure being, one could introduce any vibration.
One could introduce the name of thunder: Indra, and vibrate the 
vibration of Indra;
Everyting is creation has a vibration.
When you are established in Being, you can attune that universal 
vibration to vibrate anything.
Mantras are just vibrations, subtle vibrations;
So someone who is establised in being can effect anything they choose 
to focus their awareness on.
Doing the siddhi techniques just teaches one how to be imersed in 
Being while vibrating a specific vibration, producing a result based 
on intention.
So, Being, vibration, and intention is what ultimately creates your 
experience...
By the way; I think there is mention in Pantajali's material,
That there are three types of seekers;
Seekers of little interest, seekers with more intense interest;
And seekers of the intensity that all they want is enlightenment.
Guru Dev, Maharishi, and some  others are obviously in the most 
intense group of seekers...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   snip
There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person 
 but  
they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of  
meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that 
 the  
person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their 
   mental  
makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
 doesn't  
get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click 
 with  
where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form 
 of  
meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to 
 wait  
until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
 instructed.  
The perspective of time can do wonders.
   
   As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
   recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
   basis.
   
   The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
   in the practice.
  
  Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
 
 That's what TM instruction is.


TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and verification you 
get afterwards. 
Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights checking. But 
that's not 
TM instruction.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
snip
 There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
person 
  but  
 they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
of  
 meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
that 
  the  
 person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
their 
mental  
 makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
  doesn't  
 get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
click 
  with  
 where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
form 
  of  
 meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
to 
  wait  
 until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
  instructed.  
 The perspective of time can do wonders.

As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
basis.

The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
in the practice.
   
   Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
  
  That's what TM instruction is.
 
 
 TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
 verification you get afterwards. 
 Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
 checking. But that's not TM instruction.

Checking isn't *initiation*.

The differences from the initial instruction 
(the private session) are minor.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   
   
   
On Jul 11, 2006, at 4:35 AM, Mark wrote:
   
   
   
   
Is it possible that the criticism of TM, that it doesn't
accomplish
anything for many is because the Being by it's nature doesn't do
anything but must be enjoined with a relative agent such as a
mantra that would give It a relative focus. Mark _
   
   
There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a person but
they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms of
meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is that the
person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--their mental
makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just doesn't
get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't click with
where they're at. And of course this can happen with any form of
meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous to wait
until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-instructed.
The perspective of time can do wonders.
   
   
In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on. My life focus took a
major turn for the better after Karunamayi's second visit to FF
 when I
started chanting the Gayatri Mantra. Everything just fell into place
after that.
   
   
   That's amazing. Just goes to show that mantras are constitutional
 and  
   what an excellent compass our own hearts can be.
  
  
  Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
  couldn't handle.
 
 If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.


Do you think it isn't the case?

In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no longer
tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on.

Why couldn't you tolerate effortlessness any longer? And what doing are you 
referring to 
other than that?









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
   couldn't handle.
  
  If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
 
 
 Do you think it isn't the case?
 
Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview, so if
it makes you feel better to think that way about my experience, so be
it. But, for me, it was simply a matter of having reached the point
where I had to move on.
 
 In my case, I simply reached a point where my mind would no
longer
 tolerate doing TM, so I stopped and moved on.
 
 Why couldn't you tolerate effortlessness any longer? And what
 doing are you referring to other than that?

I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I felt
was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of the toxic
ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from being present
in the here and now. 

However, TM never fixed what I wanted fixed, and I finally came to the
end of the TM road. The right path for me ended up being one where
instead of tiptoeing around sleeping elephants, one goes right up to
the sleeping elephants and slaps them on the ass. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
he
couldn't handle.
   
   If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
  
  
  Do you think it isn't the case?
  
 Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
 pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview

Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
question given your initial would no longer tolerate
explanation for why you stopped.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
  couldn't handle.
 
 If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.

That's exactly the kind of response these people
can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
the duration of their present incarnation. They're
locked into preserving their self-image of small
self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
and for several incarnations past that point. They
just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
  There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
 person 
   but  
  they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
 of  
  meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
 that 
   the  
  person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
 their 
 mental  
  makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
   doesn't  
  get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
 click 
   with  
  where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
 form 
   of  
  meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
 to 
   wait  
  until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
   instructed.  
  The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
 As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
 recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
 basis.
 
 The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
 in the practice.

Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
   
   That's what TM instruction is.
  
  
  TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
  verification you get afterwards. 
  Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
  checking. But that's not TM instruction.
 
 Checking isn't *initiation*.
 
 The differences from the initial instruction 
 (the private session) are minor.

Says the person who was always too terrified to 
become a TM teacher because she thought it might
get in the way of her ego.  :-)
]






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
jstein@ 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ 
wrote:
  snip
   There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
  person 
but  
   they're probably similar or the same reasons other 
forms 
  of  
   meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason 
is 
  that 
the  
   person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
  their 
  mental  
   makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- 
*just 
doesn't  
   get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
  click 
with  
   where they're at. And of course this can happen with 
any 
  form 
of  
   meditation. In a case such as this, it may be 
advantageous 
  to 
wait  
   until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
instructed.  
   The perspective of time can do wonders.
  
  As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
  recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
  basis.
  
  The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
  in the practice.
 
 Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.

That's what TM instruction is.
   
   
   TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
   verification you get afterwards. 
   Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three 
nights 
   checking. But that's not TM instruction.
  
  Checking isn't *initiation*.
  
  The differences from the initial instruction 
  (the private session) are minor.
 
 Says the person

Quite accurately.

 who was always too terrified to 
 become a TM teacher because she thought it might
 get in the way of her ego.  :-)

Uh, no, I was never terrified to become a TM
teacher, nor did I think it would get in the way
of my ego.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
  There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
 person 
   but  
  they're probably similar or the same reasons other forms 
 of  
  meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason is 
 that 
   the  
  person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
 their 
 mental  
  makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- *just 
   doesn't  
  get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
 click 
   with  
  where they're at. And of course this can happen with any 
 form 
   of  
  meditation. In a case such as this, it may be advantageous 
 to 
   wait  
  until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
   instructed.  
  The perspective of time can do wonders.
 
 As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
 recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
 basis.
 
 The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
 in the practice.

Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.
   
   That's what TM instruction is.
  
  
  TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
  verification you get afterwards. 
  Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three nights 
  checking. But that's not TM instruction.
 
 Checking isn't *initiation*.
 
 The differences from the initial instruction 
 (the private session) are minor.


I'd say they're major and all-important. The most obvious one is that 
initiation is a one-
time deal.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
 wrote:

 Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
 he
 couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
   
   
   Do you think it isn't the case?
   
  Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
  pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
 
 Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
 question given your initial would no longer tolerate
 explanation for why you stopped.


Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: I couldnt' stand 
looking within 
any more. What explanation for that save unstressing?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
 j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing he
   couldn't handle.
  
  If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
 
 That's exactly the kind of response these people
 can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
 the duration of their present incarnation. They're
 locked into preserving their self-image of small
 self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
 it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
 and for several incarnations past that point. They
 just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.



So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase? 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
jstein@ 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ 
wrote:
  snip
   There are a lot of reasons that TM would not work for a 
  person 
but  
   they're probably similar or the same reasons other 
forms 
  of  
   meditation might not work. IMO the most common reason 
is 
  that 
the  
   person receiving the instruction, for whatever reason--
  their 
  mental  
   makeup, their worldview, their state of mind, etc.-- 
*just 
doesn't  
   get it*. A constitutional disconnect.  It just doesn't 
  click 
with  
   where they're at. And of course this can happen with 
any 
  form 
of  
   meditation. In a case such as this, it may be 
advantageous 
  to 
wait  
   until a certain span of time has passed and then be re-
instructed.  
   The perspective of time can do wonders.
  
  As it happens, TM provides for exactly this and 
  recommends TMers take advantage of it on a regular
  basis.
  
  The checking procedure is essentially reinstruction
  in the practice.
 
 Not really. Its a reminder of effortlessness.

That's what TM instruction is.
   
   
   TM initiation isn't the same as the 3 nights of checking and 
   verification you get afterwards. 
   Certainly, there's overlap between checking and the three 
nights 
   checking. But that's not TM instruction.
  
  Checking isn't *initiation*.
  
  The differences from the initial instruction 
  (the private session) are minor.
 
 
 I'd say they're major and all-important. The most obvious one is
 that initiation is a one-time deal.

Yes, that's why I just said Checking isn't *initiation*.

I've been talking about instruction after the puja.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
  wrote:
 
  Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
  he
  couldn't handle.
 
 If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.


Do you think it isn't the case?

   Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
   pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
  
  Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
  question given your initial would no longer tolerate
  explanation for why you stopped.
 
 
 Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: 
 I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What explanation for
 that save unstressing?

LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way deeper and way
more looking within than anything I ever experienced with TM. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
  j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
he
couldn't handle.
   
   If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
  
  That's exactly the kind of response these people
  can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
  the duration of their present incarnation. They're
  locked into preserving their self-image of small
  self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
  it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
  and for several incarnations past that point. They
  just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
 
 So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?

This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
 wrote:

 Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of 
unstressing 
 he
 couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
   
   That's exactly the kind of response these people
   can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
   the duration of their present incarnation. They're
   locked into preserving their self-image of small
   self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
   it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
   and for several incarnations past that point. They
   just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
  
  So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
 
 This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.

(Not you, Lawson, Barry.)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

2006-07-11 Thread Peter



--- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
 jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
 Stanley 
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 sparaig sparaig@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex
 Stanley
j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 sparaig sparaig@ 
   wrote:
  
   Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major
 bout of unstressing 
   he
   couldn't handle.
  
  If it makes you feel better to believe
 that, be my guest.
 
 
 Do you think it isn't the case?
 
Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you
 can't help but try to
pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly
 held TM worldview
   
   Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly
 reasonable
   question given your initial would no longer
 tolerate
   explanation for why you stopped.
  
  
  Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO.
 Basically, he's said: 
  I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What
 explanation for
  that save unstressing?
 
 LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way
 deeper and way
 more looking within than anything I ever experienced
 with TM.

Even SSRS says that his Sudarshan Kriya may not be for
everyone. Not a lot of people, but there could be
some.

 
 
 
 
 
 
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 ~-- 
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 design.

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
   wrote:
  
   Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
   he
   couldn't handle.
  
  If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
 
 
 Do you think it isn't the case?
 
Unstressing had nothing to with it. I know you can't help but try to
pigeonhole my experience into your cultishly held TM worldview
   
   Oh, for chrissake, Alex.  It's a perfectly reasonable
   question given your initial would no longer tolerate
   explanation for why you stopped.
  
  
  Still is a reasonable explanation, IMHO. Basically, he's said: 
  I couldnt' stand looking within any more. What explanation for
  that save unstressing?
 
 LOL!!! Actually, 2+ years of Waking Down gave me way deeper and way
 more looking within than anything I ever experienced with TM.


That might be. Doesn't change my point terribly, however.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
   j_alexander_stanley@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
 wrote:

 Contrariwise, that Alex ran into a major bout of unstressing 
 he
 couldn't handle.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, be my guest.
   
   That's exactly the kind of response these people
   can never 'get,' and likely will never 'get' for
   the duration of their present incarnation. They're
   locked into preserving their self-image of small
   self, and as far as I can tell, will be locked into
   it until the small self dissolves into the Bardo,
   and for several incarnations past that point. They
   just don't 'get' not having an ego to defend.
  
  So, unstressing for you isn't a catch-all phrase?
 
 This bozo is deeply, deeply terrified of *something*.


Aren't we all?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 I'd sit down to meditate and my mind wouldn't settle down. It was
 outwardly focused and could no longer tolerate the escapism of
 transcending. I'd always looked at TM as a means of fixing what I
 felt was broken, and as such, TM was for me just another piece of 
 the toxic ego dynamic of grasping and aversion, preventing me from 
 being present in the here and now. 

You know, Alex, this doesn't even *sound* like you
talking.  It sounds artificial and rote and self-
conscious.

 However, TM never fixed what I wanted fixed, and I finally came to
 the end of the TM road. The right path for me ended up being one 
 where instead of tiptoeing around sleeping elephants, one goes 
 right up to the sleeping elephants and slaps them on the ass.

This does sound like you, though.  Where the heck
did that first paragraph come from?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Japa