[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   Beautiful. A few comments interleaved below.
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Akasha:
   Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that 
 the 
whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is 
   dichotomous, digital, either on or off?
 
 Unc: 
  YES!  That's exactly the issue.
  
  I realized that some time back, during the discussions
  about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
  made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
  with a new one that more accurately described my 
  subjective experience.
 
 A: 
   Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If 
 not 
   before. 
 
 U: 
  Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
  I was not enlightened. 
 
 That's the one point on all of this where I think we 
differ. 
 First, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. 

Me, either.  I was just using the terminology already
being used in these discussions.

 It can create
 distinctions, it can creates longing for titles, it can 
  create 
 false egos, it can creates scams, etc. And the upside is?

Giving some people who are anxious for the title
something to do with their time?  :-)

  I just never appreciated it 
  until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit-
  nessing made it impossible not to appreciate.  Since
  then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to
  background many times, but what I realized during the
  'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been
  present.  What I realized when I first appreciated it
  was that it had *always* been present.
 
  Speaking of which, perhaps someone can comment on an experience 
 I've 
  had lately:
  
  I've always had a well developed intellect, can think quickly. 
  However, lately my intellect has literally been operating on a 
  higher level. I say that because my previous experience of 
mental 
  concentration in order to think something through always felt 
like 
  it was inside my brain, and it took a lot of effort.
  
  My recent experience is that I am thinking *above* my brain. 
There 
  seems to be a location about two hands above my head, wherein if 
I 
  focus my thinking there, my intellect seems to achieve 
effortless 
  answers to anything.
  
  Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what this is, or have 
heard 
  of it before? Also feels like I'm wearing a crown, or a halo or 
  something. Not a big deal, just curious. Thanks-
 
 
 Sounds like classic disociation...

Yes, if you haven't experienced it, it does, huh? When I was younger 
I used to get spaced out by too much meditation and experience 
things that I couldn't integrate. This, by contrast, is something I 
can experience, or not, at will. Its usefulness is 100% practical 
and fully grounded.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   Judy:
 Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
 yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?
   
   Rory: 
*lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in giving up 
 before 
we have even tried; that doesn't seem like you. But it is 
 *your* 
body, and *your* emotions and *your* mind, and you have 
every 
right to choose when and where and with whom and certainly 
*whether or not* to inquire into them. I think you're the 
 greatest 
either way.:-)
   
   On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, this 
 doesn't 
   seem to be working, and if there were some pain associated 
with 
 the 
   thought, I suppose I would go ahead and breathe and see/feel 
 where 
   in the body that pain/defeatism was located, and so on ... :-)
  
  Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
  you discover, OK?
 
 And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
 ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)

It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its illusory 
life...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
  U: 
   And when this happens, in this dreamed-of future,
   wave to the pigs as they fly by...  :-)
A:
  The ones emerging from your butt?

U: 
 Mixed metaphor.  It's monkeys that fly out of 
 one's butt, and pigs that fly.  :-)

All possibilities dude. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
Judy:
  Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
  yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?

Rory: 
 *lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in giving up
 before we have even tried; that doesn't seem like you. But 
 it is *your* body, and *your* emotions and *your* mind, and 
 you have every right to choose when and where and with whom 
 and certainly *whether or not* to inquire into them. I 
 think you're the greatest either way.:-)

On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, this 
doesn't seem to be working, and if there were some pain 
associated with the thought, I suppose I would go ahead and 
breathe and see/feel where in the body that pain/defeatism 
was located, and so on ... :-)
   
   Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
   you discover, OK?
  
  And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
  ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
 
 It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
 illusory life...

(1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
illusion.

(2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
complaining about, never has been.

(3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.

Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
play therapist:

If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
the Now.

Jim, try thinking about this one above your head,
see if you can pick up on one of those effortless
answers.

If you're still stumped, revisit the original
context:

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 snip
 
[to Barry:]
  So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
  and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
  the Now.
 
  My point is that you've gotten yourself into
  yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
  appreciating the Now.

 Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now:

 1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are we feeling?
 If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, try step 2.

It would be better if I felt good.

 2) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
 our thinking patterns,

It would be better if I clarified my thinking
patterns so I could be completely satisfied.

snip
 3) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
 our emotional-physiological patterns,

It would be better if I clarified my
emotional-physiological patterns so I could be
completely satisified.

If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
the Now.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Judy:
   Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
   yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?
 
 Rory: 
  *lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in giving up
  before we have even tried; that doesn't seem like you. 
But 
  it is *your* body, and *your* emotions and *your* mind, 
and 
  you have every right to choose when and where and with 
whom 
  and certainly *whether or not* to inquire into them. I 
  think you're the greatest either way.:-)
 
 On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, 
this 
 doesn't seem to be working, and if there were some pain 
 associated with the thought, I suppose I would go ahead 
and 
 breathe and see/feel where in the body that pain/defeatism 
 was located, and so on ... :-)

Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
you discover, OK?
   
   And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
   ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
  
  It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
  illusory life...
 
 (1) The small self *is* Judy.  

And getting smaller with every labored defense...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   snip
Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria 
for CC?
   
   That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent);
   witnessing can apply to temporary experiences
   (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing).
   
   It's a symbol, but for a very specific
   experience.  I don't see that your four-
   letter job is any better, as long as we
   know what the definition of CC is.
   
   That's all I'm saying.  I agree with you
   that a lot of the other terms are problematic.
  
  Good.
  
  But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in a 
non-
  seeking way :) )
 
 In my understanding of how MMY uses the term, CC
 is permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC.
 
  Can you now get universal consensus on this list for that
  definition?  
 
 If I'm representing MMY's definition correctly,
 I ought to be able to, at least from those who
 recall MMY's teaching.  Corrections to my
 understanding of how MMY uses the term are
 welcome.
 
 I'm only suggesting it because it's a term we're
 all familiar with, and it's not a complicated
 definition.

Downright simplistic, in fact.  :-)
   
   Suitable for beginners, true.
  
  Suitable for experts, too...just incomplete, as
  any definition of the undefinable would be.  It's
  sorta like defining an orange as a round fruit.
  There's more to it than that...
 
 And what is the it you believe the definition in
 question refers to for which I'm proposing the term
 CC be used as shorthand?

It is the seed in a seedless orange, of course.  :-)










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
 Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
 you discover, OK?

And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
   
   It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
   illusory life...
  
  (1) The small self *is* Judy.  
 
 And getting smaller with every labored defense...

And in contrast, the Unc small self is getting bigger with each new barb? 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 snip
   You've been trying now for quite a string of posts.
   Do you think you've gotten anywhere?
  
  *lol* Yes, I have done the work I needed to do.
 
 I meant with me.

So did I. :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
  you discover, OK?
 
 And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
 ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)

It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
illusory life...
   
   (1) The small self *is* Judy.  
  
  And getting smaller with every labored defense...
 
 And in contrast, the Unc small self is getting bigger with 
 each new barb?

I haven't dated anyone named barb since I was in the 
TM movement, but as I remember it, she definitely
made parts of me get bigger.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Judy:
   Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
   yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?
 
 Rory: 
  *lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in giving up
  before we have even tried; that doesn't seem like you. 
But 
  it is *your* body, and *your* emotions and *your* mind, 
and 
  you have every right to choose when and where and with 
whom 
  and certainly *whether or not* to inquire into them. I 
  think you're the greatest either way.:-)
 
 On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, 
this 
 doesn't seem to be working, and if there were some pain 
 associated with the thought, I suppose I would go ahead 
and 
 breathe and see/feel where in the body that pain/defeatism 
 was located, and so on ... :-)

Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
you discover, OK?
   
   And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
   ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
  
  It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
  illusory life...
 
 (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
 illusion.
 
 (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
 complaining about, never has been.
 
 (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
 completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
 I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
 
 Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
 in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
 play therapist:
 
 If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
 in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
 the Now.
 
 Jim, try thinking about this one above your head,
 see if you can pick up on one of those effortless
 answers.
 
 If you're still stumped, revisit the original
 context:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
  snip
  
 [to Barry:]
   So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
   and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
   the Now.
  
   My point is that you've gotten yourself into
   yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
   appreciating the Now.
 
  Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now:
 
  1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are we 
feeling?
  If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, try step 2.
 
 It would be better if I felt good.
 
  2) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
  our thinking patterns,
 
 It would be better if I clarified my thinking
 patterns so I could be completely satisfied.
 
 snip
  3) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
  our emotional-physiological patterns,
 
 It would be better if I clarified my
 emotional-physiological patterns so I could be
 completely satisified.
 
 If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
 in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
 the Now.

If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
prerogative :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  
  So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
  and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
  the Now.
  
  My point is that you've gotten yourself into
  yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
  appreciating the Now.
 
 Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now: 
 
 1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are we 
 feeling? If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, 
try 
 step 2.

It would be better if I felt good.
   
   And so how do we feel? Not-good? Is that the same as bad? What 
   kind of bad? Itchy? Weepy? Stubborn? Guilty? Angry? Not-good 
is 
   a good start, but perhaps let's dig a little deeper, taking 
our 
   time, allowing it to breathe. Where in the body would it be, 
if 
   it were in the body?
  
  Another very useful technique, with the limitation
  inherent in any technique.  It must actually be 
  practiced, not just read and discarded.
 
 Yes indeedydoo.  If we're not appreciating the Now,
 and we think it would be better if we did, we should
 practice this technique so we can get rid of all 
 those nasty obstacles sitting there in the way.
 
 horselaugh

*lol* I like your laugh. No, it is not to get rid of the obstacles 
at all; it is to refine our attention sufficiently to appreciate 
them and integrate them as aspects of our Wholeness. :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
snip
 Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria 
 for CC?

That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent);
witnessing can apply to temporary experiences
(CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing).

It's a symbol, but for a very specific
experience.  I don't see that your four-
letter job is any better, as long as we
know what the definition of CC is.

That's all I'm saying.  I agree with you
that a lot of the other terms are problematic.
   
   Good.
   
   But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in a 
 non-
   seeking way :) )
  
  In my understanding of how MMY uses the term, CC
  is permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC.
  
   Can you now get universal consensus on this list for 
that
   definition?  
  
  If I'm representing MMY's definition correctly,
  I ought to be able to, at least from those who
  recall MMY's teaching.  Corrections to my
  understanding of how MMY uses the term are
  welcome.
  
  I'm only suggesting it because it's a term we're
  all familiar with, and it's not a complicated
  definition.
 
 Downright simplistic, in fact.  :-)

Suitable for beginners, true.
   
   Suitable for experts, too...just incomplete, as
   any definition of the undefinable would be.  It's
   sorta like defining an orange as a round fruit.
   There's more to it than that...
  
  And what is the it you believe the definition in
  question refers to for which I'm proposing the term
  CC be used as shorthand?
 
 It is the seed in a seedless orange, of course.  :-)

Wrongaroonie.  Try again.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
   you discover, OK?
  
  And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
  ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
 
 It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
 illusory life...

(1) The small self *is* Judy.  
   
   And getting smaller with every labored defense...
  
  And in contrast, the Unc small self is getting bigger with 
  each new barb?
 
 I haven't dated anyone named barb since I was in the 
 TM movement, but as I remember it, she definitely
 made parts of me get bigger.

An engorged ego ?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  Judy:
Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?
  
  Rory: 
   *lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in giving 
up
   before we have even tried; that doesn't seem like you. 
 But 
   it is *your* body, and *your* emotions and *your* mind, 
 and 
   you have every right to choose when and where and with 
 whom 
   and certainly *whether or not* to inquire into them. I 
   think you're the greatest either way.:-)
  
  On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, 
 this 
  doesn't seem to be working, and if there were some pain 
  associated with the thought, I suppose I would go ahead 
 and 
  breathe and see/feel where in the body that 
pain/defeatism 
  was located, and so on ... :-)
 
 Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
 you discover, OK?

And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
   
   It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
   illusory life...
  
  (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
  illusion.
  
  (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
  complaining about, never has been.
  
  (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
  completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
  I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
  
  Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
  in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
  play therapist:
  
  If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
  in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
  the Now.
  
  Jim, try thinking about this one above your head,
  see if you can pick up on one of those effortless
  answers.
  
  If you're still stumped, revisit the original
  context:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
   snip
   
  [to Barry:]
So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
the Now.
   
My point is that you've gotten yourself into
yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
appreciating the Now.
  
   Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now:
  
   1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are we 
 feeling?
   If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, try step 2.
  
  It would be better if I felt good.
  
   2) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
   our thinking patterns,
  
  It would be better if I clarified my thinking
  patterns so I could be completely satisfied.
  
  snip
   3) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to clarify
   our emotional-physiological patterns,
  
  It would be better if I clarified my
  emotional-physiological patterns so I could be
  completely satisified.
  
  If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
  in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
  the Now.
 
 If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
 prerogative :-)

Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip
   
   So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
   and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
   the Now.
   
   My point is that you've gotten yourself into
   yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
   appreciating the Now.
  
  Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now: 
  
  1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are 
we 
  feeling? If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, 
 try 
  step 2.
 
 It would be better if I felt good.

And so how do we feel? Not-good? Is that the same as bad? 
What 
kind of bad? Itchy? Weepy? Stubborn? Guilty? Angry? Not-
good 
 is 
a good start, but perhaps let's dig a little deeper, taking 
 our 
time, allowing it to breathe. Where in the body would it be, 
 if 
it were in the body?
   
   Another very useful technique, with the limitation
   inherent in any technique.  It must actually be 
   practiced, not just read and discarded.
  
  Yes indeedydoo.  If we're not appreciating the Now,
  and we think it would be better if we did, we should
  practice this technique so we can get rid of all 
  those nasty obstacles sitting there in the way.
  
  horselaugh
 
 *lol* I like your laugh. No, it is not to get rid of the 
obstacles 
 at all; it is to refine our attention sufficiently to appreciate 
 them and integrate them as aspects of our Wholeness. :-)

exactly; I never met an obstacle that wasn't me. And I can't get rid 
of myself.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 No, it is not to get rid of the obstacles 
 at all; it is to refine our attention sufficiently to appreciate 
 them and integrate them as aspects of our Wholeness. :-)

An important distinction that is often lost on those
who have spent decades immersed in the TM metaphors
of stress and knots of stress and unstressing,
none of which actually exist, or were ever barriers
to the realization of enlightenment.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
 snip
  Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria 
  for CC?
 
 That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent);
 witnessing can apply to temporary experiences
 (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing).
 
 It's a symbol, but for a very specific
 experience.  I don't see that your four-
 letter job is any better, as long as we
 know what the definition of CC is.
 
 That's all I'm saying.  I agree with you
 that a lot of the other terms are problematic.

Good.

But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in 
a 
  non-
seeking way :) )
   
   In my understanding of how MMY uses the term, CC
   is permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC.
   
Can you now get universal consensus on this list for 
 that
definition?  
   
   If I'm representing MMY's definition correctly,
   I ought to be able to, at least from those who
   recall MMY's teaching.  Corrections to my
   understanding of how MMY uses the term are
   welcome.
   
   I'm only suggesting it because it's a term we're
   all familiar with, and it's not a complicated
   definition.
  
  Downright simplistic, in fact.  :-)
 
 Suitable for beginners, true.

Suitable for experts, too...just incomplete, as
any definition of the undefinable would be.  It's
sorta like defining an orange as a round fruit.
There's more to it than that...
   
   And what is the it you believe the definition in
   question refers to for which I'm proposing the term
   CC be used as shorthand?
  
  It is the seed in a seedless orange, of course.  :-)
 
 Wrongaroonie.  Try again.

Oh.  I didn't realize it was a Quiz Show.  Sorry.

Is this Wheel Of Karma, that show where the person
who has never experienced clear, sustained, 24/7 
witnessing gets to define it, and its relationship
to enlightenment as a whole, for those who have?

I'd watch, but Jerry Springer is on the other
channel...  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
Rory:
  If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
  prerogative :-)

Judy: 
 Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.

Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top of his head.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip
   
   So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
   and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
   the Now.
   
   My point is that you've gotten yourself into
   yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
   appreciating the Now.
  
  Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now: 
  
  1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are 
we 
  feeling? If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, 
 try 
  step 2.
 
 It would be better if I felt good.

And so how do we feel? Not-good? Is that the same as bad? 
What 
kind of bad? Itchy? Weepy? Stubborn? Guilty? Angry? Not-
good 
 is 
a good start, but perhaps let's dig a little deeper, taking 
 our 
time, allowing it to breathe. Where in the body would it be, 
 if 
it were in the body?
   
   Another very useful technique, with the limitation
   inherent in any technique.  It must actually be 
   practiced, not just read and discarded.
  
  Yes indeedydoo.  If we're not appreciating the Now,
  and we think it would be better if we did, we should
  practice this technique so we can get rid of all 
  those nasty obstacles sitting there in the way.
  
  horselaugh
 
 *lol* I like your laugh. No, it is not to get rid of the
 obstacles at all; it is to refine our attention sufficiently to 
 appreciate them and integrate them as aspects of our Wholeness. :-)

Yes indeedydoo.  If we aren't sufficiently appreciating
the obstacles to be able to integrate them as aspects of
our Wholeness, and we think it would be better if we did,
we should practice this technique to get rid of all the
nasty obstacles to that appreciation and integration 
sitting there in the way.

Think infinite regress, Rory.  Think going around in
circles.

Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
us to appreciate the Now.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
you discover, OK?
   
   And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
   ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)
  
  It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for 
its
  illusory life...
 
 (1) The small self *is* Judy.  

And getting smaller with every labored defense...
   
   And in contrast, the Unc small self is getting bigger with 
   each new barb?
  
  I haven't dated anyone named barb since I was in the 
  TM movement, but as I remember it, she definitely
  made parts of me get bigger.
 
 An engorged ego ?

She actually *did* have a thing for big egos, and
was a bit of a starfucker within the TM movement.
Probably did Bevan and Hagelin at the same time.  :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   Judy:
 Rory, has it ever occurred to you to say to
 yourself, Gee, this doesn't seem to be working?
   
   Rory: 
*lol* No. I certainly wouldn't see the point in 
giving 
 up
before we have even tried; that doesn't seem like 
you. 
  But 
it is *your* body, and *your* emotions and *your* 
mind, 
  and 
you have every right to choose when and where and 
with 
  whom 
and certainly *whether or not* to inquire into them. 
I 
think you're the greatest either way.:-)
   
   On the other hand, if I *were* saying to myself, Gee, 
  this 
   doesn't seem to be working, and if there were some 
pain 
   associated with the thought, I suppose I would go 
ahead 
  and 
   breathe and see/feel where in the body that 
 pain/defeatism 
   was located, and so on ... :-)
  
  Great.  You go do that, and let us know what
  you discover, OK?
 
 And Judy will keep complaining about being in 
 ignorance.  It's a status quo thang...  :-)

It is the small self, which is *not* Judy, fighting for its
illusory life...
   
   (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
   illusion.
   
   (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
   complaining about, never has been.
   
   (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
   completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
   I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
   
   Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
   in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
   play therapist:
   
   If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
   in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
   the Now.
   
   Jim, try thinking about this one above your head,
   see if you can pick up on one of those effortless
   answers.
   
   If you're still stumped, revisit the original
   context:
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
snip

   [to Barry:]
 So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
 and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
 the Now.

 My point is that you've gotten yourself into
 yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
 appreciating the Now.
   
Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now:
   
1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How are we 
  feeling?
If we feel good, the exercise is done. If not, try step 2.
   
   It would be better if I felt good.
   
2) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to 
clarify
our thinking patterns,
   
   It would be better if I clarified my thinking
   patterns so I could be completely satisfied.
   
   snip
3) If we don't feel completely satisfied, and we wish to 
clarify
our emotional-physiological patterns,
   
   It would be better if I clarified my
   emotional-physiological patterns so I could be
   completely satisified.
   
   If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
   in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
   the Now.
  
  If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
  prerogative :-)
 
 Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.

*lol* That is (apparently) my prerogative.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rory:
   If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
   prerogative :-)
 
 Judy: 
  Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 
 Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top of his 
head.

Maybe there is nothing to process :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rory:
   If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
   prerogative :-)
 
 Judy: 
  Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 
 Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top
 of his head.

Hey, I already suggested that!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
Unc:
 And getting smaller with every labored defense...
Akasha:
And in contrast, the Unc small self is getting bigger with 
each new barb?
U:
   I haven't dated anyone named barb since I was in the 
   TM movement, but as I remember it, she definitely
   made parts of me get bigger.
A: 
  An engorged ego ?
 
 She actually *did* have a thing for big egos, and
 was a bit of a starfucker within the TM movement.
 Probably did Bevan and Hagelin at the same time.  :-)

Oh. THAT barb. I thought you meant the other one. Well, I bet it was
magical. Even if some moments were grey.  




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
  Rory:
If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) your 
prerogative :-)
  
  Judy: 
   Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
A: 
  Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top
  of his head.
J: 
 Hey, I already suggested that!

Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it sometimes.

(You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing me for 10
cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   snip

So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now,
and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating
the Now.

My point is that you've gotten yourself into
yet another infinite regress when you prescribe
appreciating the Now.
   
   Some Suggestions on How to Appreciate the Now: 
   
   1) Pay attention to whatever is in front of us. How 
are 
 we 
   feeling? If we feel good, the exercise is done. If 
not, 
  try 
   step 2.
  
  It would be better if I felt good.
 
 And so how do we feel? Not-good? Is that the same as bad? 
 What 
 kind of bad? Itchy? Weepy? Stubborn? Guilty? Angry? Not-
 good 
  is 
 a good start, but perhaps let's dig a little deeper, 
taking 
  our 
 time, allowing it to breathe. Where in the body would it 
be, 
  if 
 it were in the body?

Another very useful technique, with the limitation
inherent in any technique.  It must actually be 
practiced, not just read and discarded.
   
   Yes indeedydoo.  If we're not appreciating the Now,
   and we think it would be better if we did, we should
   practice this technique so we can get rid of all 
   those nasty obstacles sitting there in the way.
   
   horselaugh
  
  *lol* I like your laugh. No, it is not to get rid of the
  obstacles at all; it is to refine our attention sufficiently to 
  appreciate them and integrate them as aspects of our 
Wholeness. :-)
 
 Yes indeedydoo.  If we aren't sufficiently appreciating
 the obstacles to be able to integrate them as aspects of
 our Wholeness, and we think it would be better if we did,
 we should practice this technique to get rid of all the
 nasty obstacles to that appreciation and integration 
 sitting there in the way.
 
 Think infinite regress, Rory.  Think going around in
 circles.
 
 Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
 peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
 us to appreciate the Now.

Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress argument -- it 
just doesn't apply here, at least in any meaningful way. The fact 
is, these techniques do work, if we really feel we have a sincere 
need or desire to grow. 

The truth is, of course, there *is* no growth; we *are* throroughly 
enjoying the Now, always have been, always will be. I was using a 
spacetime perspective to communicate with any small portion of Us 
which might still believe itself trapped in those illusory 
limitations. But I am happy if you are -- and even if you aren't :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip  
 
  (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
  illusion.
  
  (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
  complaining about, never has been.
  
  (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
  completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
  I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
  
  Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
  in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
  play therapist:
  
  If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
  in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
  the Now.
 
 *lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to turn this 
 into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really think it 
 was worth commenting on :-)

Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
smiley face, I might be convinced you were
capable of expressing an honest reaction.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Unc: 
It is the seed in a seedless orange, of course.  :-)
 
 Judy: 
   Wrongaroonie.  Try again.
 
 U: 
  Oh.  I didn't realize it was a Quiz Show.  Sorry.
  
  Is this Wheel Of Karma, that show where the person
  who has never experienced clear, sustained, 24/7 
  witnessing gets to define it, and its relationship
  to enlightenment as a whole, for those who have?
  
  I'd watch, but Jerry Springer is on the other
  channel...  :-)
 
 Is that the show where rajas throw their thrones at each other?
 (Don't look at my Rajariness like that your Highness Dude!)

Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)

But now that you mention it, there just *was* an 
incident of throne-throwing on Springer.  Two rajas 
started whacking at each other with their chairs, and 
while the Jerryguards were distracted trying to break
up the fight, their wives (whose names, in accordance
with TM etiquette, were never mentioned) got into this
awesome, screaming catfight, trying to rip each other's
saris off.  And someone once said that television was
a vast wasteland...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Rory:
 If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) 
your 
 prerogative :-)
   
   Judy: 
Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 A: 
   Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top
   of his head.
 J: 
  Hey, I already suggested that!
 
 Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it 
sometimes.
 
 (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing me for 10
 cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )

*lol* We see what we need to see, don't we? :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip  
  
   (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
   illusion.
   
   (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
   complaining about, never has been.
   
   (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
   completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
   I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
   
   Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
   in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
   play therapist:
   
   If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
   in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
   the Now.
  
  *lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to turn 
this 
  into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really think 
it 
  was worth commenting on :-)
 
 Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
 smiley face, I might be convinced you were
 capable of expressing an honest reaction.

*lol* I don't give a crap what you might or not be convinced of :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
snip
  Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
  peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
  us to appreciate the Now.
 
 Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress argument -- 
 it just doesn't apply here, at least in any meaningful way. The 
 fact is, these techniques do work, if we really feel we have a 
 sincere need or desire to grow.

But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
experientially.

Each is valid on its own level, but as long as
you're doing one, you aren't doing the other.

That's why this kind of thing has never worked
for me.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   snip  
   
(1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
illusion.

(2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
complaining about, never has been.

(3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.

Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
play therapist:

If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
the Now.
   
   *lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to turn 
 this 
   into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really think 
 it 
   was worth commenting on :-)
  
  Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
  smiley face, I might be convinced you were
  capable of expressing an honest reaction.
 
 *lol* I don't give a crap what you might or not be convinced of :-)

Good, Rory.  Now see if you can do without those
two crutches.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
Rory:
 *lol* I don't give a crap ...

Ah so reevaling on so many levels.

Those that are constipated often are oblivious to others' concerns,
since they are focussed on trying to push their agendas out for
all to endure.

* lol* *lol* *lol* :) :) :) 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 snip
   Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
   peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
   us to appreciate the Now.
  
  Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress argument --
 
  it just doesn't apply here, at least in any meaningful way. The 
  fact is, these techniques do work, if we really feel we have a 
  sincere need or desire to grow.
 
 But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
 Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
 mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
 experientially.

I appreciate how it could look like this intellectually, and how it 
is evidently your experience, but I don't find it to be the case 
intellectually or experientially at all. Part of the paradox, I 
suppose.

 Each is valid on its own level, but as long as
 you're doing one, you aren't doing the other.
 
 That's why this kind of thing has never worked
 for me.

I can see the appeal of this belief-system. It is nice and neat, and 
saves us the trouble of having to take any personal responsibility 
for our perceptions :-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip  

 (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
 illusion.
 
 (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
 complaining about, never has been.
 
 (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
 completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
 I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
 
 Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
 in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
 play therapist:
 
 If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
 in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
 the Now.

*lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to turn 
  this 
into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really 
think 
  it 
was worth commenting on :-)
   
   Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
   smiley face, I might be convinced you were
   capable of expressing an honest reaction.
  
  *lol* I don't give a crap what you might or not be convinced 
of :-)
 
 Good, Rory.  Now see if you can do without those
 two crutches.

*lol* :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Rory:
  *lol* I don't give a crap ...
 
 Ah so reevaling on so many levels.
 
 Those that are constipated often are oblivious to others' concerns,
 since they are focussed on trying to push their agendas out for
 all to endure.
 
 * lol* *lol* *lol* :) :) :)

I am not constipated, Akasha, in this body at least; sorry to 
disappoint you :-) 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Rory:
   *lol* I don't give a crap ...
  
  Ah so reevaling on so many levels.
  
  Those that are constipated often are oblivious to others' concerns,
  since they are focussed on trying to push their agendas out for
  all to endure.
  
  * lol* *lol* *lol* :) :) :)
 
 I am not constipated, Akasha, in this body at least; sorry to 
 disappoint you :-)

I'm relieved. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 snip
   Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
   peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
   us to appreciate the Now.
  
  Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress argument --
 
  it just doesn't apply here, at least in any meaningful way. The 
  fact is, these techniques do work, if we really feel we have a 
  sincere need or desire to grow.
 
 But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
 Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
 mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
 experientially.
 
 Each is valid on its own level, but as long as
 you're doing one, you aren't doing the other.
 
 That's why this kind of thing has never worked
 for me.

I've switched channels, and haven't really 
been following Wheel Of Karma, but I thought
I'd let you guys know that over on the Springer 
channel the guest is a favorite repeat guest.
She's been on the show several times a year for 
over ten years now, and they keep asking her back.  
She's a favorite with the audience, because every
time she's on, she tells the same old tale of
woe.  On every show, people on the stage and
people from the audience give her sincere advice
about things she could do to be a little happier,
but she never does any of them.  She says it's
because intellectually, she has analyzed each 
of the suggestions and knows that they cannot
work.  Me, I just think it's because she likes
the attention she gets from being on the Springer 
show, and doesn't know what she'd say on it if 
she weren't miserable any more.

Gotta go now...she's about to tell the same
story she's told hundreds of times now, and 
I have to listen closely to see if anything's
changed since the last time she was on...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
  snip
Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
us to appreciate the Now.
   
   Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress
   argument -- it just doesn't apply here, at least in any 
   meaningful way. The fact is, these techniques do work, if we 
   really feel we have a sincere need or desire to grow.
  
  But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
  Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
  mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
  experientially.
 
 I appreciate how it could look like this intellectually, and how it 
 is evidently your experience, but I don't find it to be the case 
 intellectually or experientially at all. Part of the paradox, I 
 suppose.

Part of the difference between us.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   snip
 Ask yourself whether there might be something just a bit
 peculiar about the concept of a technique to enable
 us to appreciate the Now.

Yes, Judy, I am familiar with your infinite regress
argument -- it just doesn't apply here, at least in any 
meaningful way. The fact is, these techniques do work, if we 
really feel we have a sincere need or desire to grow.
   
   But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
   Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
   mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
   experientially.
  
  I appreciate how it could look like this intellectually, and how 
it 
  is evidently your experience, but I don't find it to be the case 
  intellectually or experientially at all. Part of the paradox, I 
  suppose.
 
 Part of the difference between us.

Vive la difference! :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Rory:
   *lol* I don't give a crap ...
  
  Ah so reevaling on so many levels.
  
  Those that are constipated often are oblivious to others' concerns,
  since they are focussed on trying to push their agendas out for
  all to endure.
  
  * lol* *lol* *lol* :) :) :)
 
 I am not constipated, Akasha, in this body at least; sorry to 
 disappoint you :-)

It ain't the body, Rory.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   Rory:
*lol* I don't give a crap ...
   
   Ah so reevaling on so many levels.
   
   Those that are constipated often are oblivious to others' 
concerns,
   since they are focussed on trying to push their agendas 
out for
   all to endure.
   
   * lol* *lol* *lol* :) :) :)
  
  I am not constipated, Akasha, in this body at least; sorry to 
  disappoint you :-)
 
 It ain't the body, Rory.

Isn't it? 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:

  It ain't the body, Rory.


Isn't it?

Yet another place where we differ! :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Rory:
 If you would rather not do the Work, that is (apparently) 
your 
 prerogative :-)
   
   Judy: 
Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 A: 
   Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top
   of his head.
 J: 
  Hey, I already suggested that!
 
 Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it
 sometimes.
 
 (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing me for 10
 cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )

Attempted spiritual rape.

Fortunately I'm wearing my black belt...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
Judy:
But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
experientially.

Rory:
   I appreciate how it could look like this intellectually, and how 
 it is evidently your experience, but I don't find it to be the case 
   intellectually or experientially at all. ...

You are now seeing differences? I thought it was all Oneness?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Rory:
  If you would rather not do the Work, that is 
(apparently) 
 your 
  prerogative :-)

Judy: 
 Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
  A: 
Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on top
of his head.
  J: 
   Hey, I already suggested that!
  
  Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it
  sometimes.
  
  (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing me 
  for 10
  cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )
 
 Attempted spiritual rape.

Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
and in their minds, that became rape.

So Maharihi's off the hook.  Don't you all feel much
better now?

:-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip
 I've switched channels, and haven't really 
 been following Wheel Of Karma, but I thought
 I'd let you guys know that over on the Springer 
 channel the guest is a favorite repeat guest.
 She's been on the show several times a year for 
 over ten years now, and they keep asking her back.  
 She's a favorite with the audience, because every
 time she's on, she tells the same old tale of
 woe.  On every show, people on the stage and
 people from the audience give her sincere advice
 about things she could do to be a little happier,
 but she never does any of them.  She says it's
 because intellectually, she has analyzed each 
 of the suggestions and knows that they cannot
 work.  Me, I just think it's because she likes
 the attention she gets from being on the Springer 
 show, and doesn't know what she'd say on it if 
 she weren't miserable any more.

Try watching real life for a change, Barry.  Believe
me, it's *far* more interesting.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 Attempted spiritual rape.
 
 Fortunately I'm wearing my black belt...

Fortunately...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Judy:
 But that's yet another iteration of the regress.
 Desire to grow and appreciate the Now are
 mutually exclusive, not just intellectually but
 experientially.
 
 Rory:
I appreciate how it could look like this intellectually, and 
how 
  it is evidently your experience, but I don't find it to be the 
case 
intellectually or experientially at all. ...
 
 You are now seeing differences? I thought it was all Oneness?

Oh please, Akasha, don't make me out to be more stupid than I actually 
am :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip
  I've switched channels, and haven't really 
  been following Wheel Of Karma, but I thought
  I'd let you guys know that over on the Springer 
  channel the guest is a favorite repeat guest.
  She's been on the show several times a year for 
  over ten years now, and they keep asking her back.  
  She's a favorite with the audience, because every
  time she's on, she tells the same old tale of
  woe.  On every show, people on the stage and
  people from the audience give her sincere advice
  about things she could do to be a little happier,
  but she never does any of them.  She says it's
  because intellectually, she has analyzed each 
  of the suggestions and knows that they cannot
  work.  Me, I just think it's because she likes
  the attention she gets from being on the Springer 
  show, and doesn't know what she'd say on it if 
  she weren't miserable any more.
 
 Try watching real life for a change, Barry.  Believe
 me, it's *far* more interesting.

Not really.  The real-life model for my made-up
Springer character and *her* infinitely-repeating
tales of woe are much more boring than the fictional
version.  The Springer babe has been known to laugh
at herself at least once in the past ten years...  :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 Rory:
   If you would rather not do the Work, that is 
 (apparently) 
  your 
   prerogative :-)
 
 Judy: 
  Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
   A: 
 Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting on 
top
 of his head.
   J: 
Hey, I already suggested that!
   
   Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it
   sometimes.
   
   (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing me 
   for 10
   cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )
  
  Attempted spiritual rape.
 
 Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
 kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
 all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
 something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
 and in their minds, that became rape.

Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
All she needed was a really good screwing.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  snip
   I've switched channels, and haven't really 
   been following Wheel Of Karma, but I thought
   I'd let you guys know that over on the Springer 
   channel the guest is a favorite repeat guest.
   She's been on the show several times a year for 
   over ten years now, and they keep asking her back.  
   She's a favorite with the audience, because every
   time she's on, she tells the same old tale of
   woe.  On every show, people on the stage and
   people from the audience give her sincere advice
   about things she could do to be a little happier,
   but she never does any of them.  She says it's
   because intellectually, she has analyzed each 
   of the suggestions and knows that they cannot
   work.  Me, I just think it's because she likes
   the attention she gets from being on the Springer 
   show, and doesn't know what she'd say on it if 
   she weren't miserable any more.
  
  Try watching real life for a change, Barry.  Believe
  me, it's *far* more interesting.
 
 Not really.  The real-life model for my made-up
 Springer character and *her* infinitely-repeating
 tales of woe are much more boring than the fictional
 version.

The problem with watching too much TV is that you
start creating your own fantasies and mistaking them
for real life.

Why anyone would want to create *boring* fantasies
is another question entirely.  But I guess maybe
real life is just too challenging for some.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   Rory:
 If you would rather not do the Work, that is 
   (apparently) 
your 
 prerogative :-)
   
   Judy: 
Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 A: 
   Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting 
 on 
  top
   of his head.
 J: 
  Hey, I already suggested that!
 
 Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it
 sometimes.
 
 (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing 
 me 
 for 10
 cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )

Attempted spiritual rape.
   
   Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
   kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
   all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
   something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
   and in their minds, that became rape.
  
  Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
  All she needed was a really good screwing.
 
 Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)
 
 The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.

Barry, that's the *TV show*, remember?  Turn it
*off*, for pete's sake.  You know, appreciate the
Now.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
   Rory:
 If you would rather not do the Work, that is 
   (apparently) 
your 
 prerogative :-)
   
   Judy: 
Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
 A: 
   Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray sitting 
 on 
  top
   of his head.
 J: 
  Hey, I already suggested that!
 
 Rory needs to have things repeated to him before he gets it
 sometimes.
 
 (You have been saying stop this nonesense, stop harassing 
 me 
 for 10
 cycles of posts now, and he still doesn't seem to get it. )

Attempted spiritual rape.
   
   Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
   kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
   all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
   something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
   and in their minds, that became rape.
  
  Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
  All she needed was a really good screwing.
 
 Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)
 
 The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.

It's interesting how rape is cognate with rapture, and too how 
the self can see the rapture of the Self as a rape, 
and therapist as the rapist. The issue would as always I suppose 
boil down to informed consent. Does the moth ever really consent to 
be immolated in the flame it dances around? 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
 Attempted spiritual rape.

Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
and in their minds, that became rape.
   
   Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
   All she needed was a really good screwing.
  
  Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)
  
  The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.
 
 It's interesting how rape is cognate with rapture, and too 
 how the self can see the rapture of the Self as a rape, 
 and therapist as the rapist. 

It would be fascinating if it weren't so scary.
A self so terrified of losing itself that it
sees Self as attempted rape.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Attempted spiritual rape.
 
 Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
 kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
 all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
 something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
 and in their minds, that became rape.

Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
All she needed was a really good screwing.
   
   Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)
   
   The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.
  
  It's interesting how rape is cognate with rapture, and too 
  how the self can see the rapture of the Self as a rape, 
  and therapist as the rapist. 
 
 It would be fascinating if it weren't so scary.
 A self so terrified of losing itself that it
 sees Self as attempted rape.

Well, it's just another story -- one I can certainly relate and 
relate to, as it has seemed that way to me sometimes :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Rory:
  If you would rather not do the Work, that is 
(apparently) 
 your 
  prerogative :-)

Judy: 
 Try again, Rory, you still ain't getting it.
  A: 
Maybe Rory can have Jim process it in the Cray 
sitting 
  on 
   top
of his head.

What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top of 
my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
though...got any more 'good ones'?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Unc:
  Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
  aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
 
 Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me seriously is
 my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have brought me
 eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the cycle of
 birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
 
 Damn, foiled again!!!

Just appreciate the Now, Akasha, just appreciate the Now.

We've got a really delicious Now going here...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
Jim:
 What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
 with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top of 
 my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
 plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
 though...got any more 'good ones'?

So when is the output of your blackbox going to start being reflected
in your posts? :)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jim:
  What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
  with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top 
of 
  my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
  plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
  though...got any more 'good ones'?
 
 So when is the output of your blackbox going to start being reflected
 in your posts? :)

We all see what we need to, hey, Akasha? :)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Attempted spiritual rape.
 
 Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
 kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
 all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
 something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
 and in their minds, that became rape.

Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
All she needed was a really good screwing.
   
   Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)
   
   The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.
  
  It's interesting how rape is cognate with rapture, and too 
  how the self can see the rapture of the Self as a rape, 
  and therapist as the rapist. 
 
 It would be fascinating if it weren't so scary.
 A self so terrified of losing itself that it
 sees Self as attempted rape.

Speaking of sexual aberration, it goes the other way too- I recall 
Maharishi talking about the small self holding the Self in bondage
(!).




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   Attempted spiritual rape.
  
  Ah!  Fodder for Rick and his fascination with all the
  kiss-and-tell babes with regard to Maharishi.  Perhaps
  all that ever happened was that he tried to tell them
  something about themselves they didn't want to hear,
  and in their minds, that became rape.
 
 Yup, that's one of the rapist's favorite excuses:
 All she needed was a really good screwing.

Ohmygod, she's actually serious!  :-)

The small self is REALLY feeling threatened this time.
   
   It's interesting how rape is cognate with rapture, and too 
   how the self can see the rapture of the Self as a rape, 
   and therapist as the rapist. 
  
  It would be fascinating if it weren't so scary.
  A self so terrified of losing itself that it
  sees Self as attempted rape.
 
 Well, it's just another story -- one I can certainly relate and 
 relate to, as it has seemed that way to me sometimes :-)

I guess I was fortunate, in that none of the experiences
in my life of self dropping away and leaving only Self have
had the least bit of dread or resistance associated with
them.  Interestingly enough, it was the same with acid,
back in my hippie days.  Everyone I knew had at least 
one bummer, in which the fear of losing self became so
predominant that the person freaked out.  Me, for what-
ever reason, I just went with it and had great unity exper-
iences.  Go figure.

All this brou-ha-ha (ha ha) has made me remember a great
rap by the Rama fellow I studied with, dealing with this
same subject:


At the border of nirvana there's a crossing.  And 
when you reach the border of nirvana, someone will 
come up to you and inform you that if you enter into 
nirvana everything that you've ever loved will be 
lost.  You will be alone.  There will be the most 
terrible aloneness that you can imagine.  You will 
be alienated from everything, including yourself, 
forever.  A sense of drifting in a cold, desolate 
space forever. 

At that moment, O nobly-born, all the images from 
all of your lives will come forward and will demand 
your attention. They will say, 'Don't cross over there.  
You will lose us and you will be sorrowful and empty 
and void.' 

If you listen to what that fellow at the border 
tells you, then you won't cross over.  You'll go 
back to all the things that have bound you and 
limited you also.  You'll go back to both because 
in the world of duality you have the pairs of 
opposites. 

If you listen to me, which no one does, fortunately, 
I would suggest that it's not like that at all.  
That when that fellow comes up to you and warns you 
against crossing the border, you'll say, 'Listen, 
several lifetimes ago I read one of Rama's books and 
while he very rarely says anything of any value 
whatsoever, there was one point he made which I put 
on a 3x5 file card which I happen to have in my back 
pocket.  And I was going to review it because he said 
I'd run into you. I didn't actually believe it at the 
time but now that I've run into you I just happen to 
have this file card tucked away here and I'd like 
to examine it for a moment, if you don't mind.' 

And of course he'll say, 'We don't have time, the 
worlds are turning, existence is manifesting...'  
And you'll say, 'Just a minute!' 

You'll take out your faded 3x5 file card, it's a few 
lifetimes old -- actually, it would be better if you 
had a plastic one which you had laser engraved, because 
as we all know plastic lasts forever -- and it says, 
'DON'T LISTEN.'  Hopefully, it will be in the right 
language. 

Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
anything because all the things you've always loved 
and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
there and are always there. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jim:
  What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
  with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top 
of 
  my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
  plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
  though...got any more 'good ones'?
 
 So when is the output of your blackbox going to start being reflected
 in your posts? :)

Oops, it isn't MY blackbox (nor is it black, nor a box, but of course, 
you knew that didn't you?)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Speaking of sexual aberration, it goes the other way too- I recall 
 Maharishi talking about the small self holding the Self in bondage
 (!).

YES! Claiming *seriously* that it is only a victim all the while! 
Priceless comedy; talk about your Stooges or Marx brothers! :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Unc:
  Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
  aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
 
 Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me seriously 
 is my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have brought me
 eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the cycle of 
 birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
 
 Damn, foiled again!!!

No fair!  You're appealing to the selfless service 
aspect of me...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Jim:
  What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
  with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top 
of 
  my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
  plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
  though...got any more 'good ones'?
 
 So when is the output of your blackbox going to start being reflected
 in your posts? :)

Output?  A *real* programmer don't have to show you
no steenkin' output!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Unc:
   Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
   aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
  
  Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me seriously 
  is my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have brought me
  eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the cycle of 
  birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
  
  Damn, foiled again!!!
 
 No fair!  You're appealing to the selfless service 
 aspect of me...

Is that your (very) small self? 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Jim:
   What is sitting on top of my head makes a Cray look like a rock, 
   with regard to relative processing power. What is sitting on top 
 of 
   my head is a universal neural net with infinite computing power, 
   plugged in and ready to go!!! Thanks for the suggestion, 
   though...got any more 'good ones'?
  
  So when is the output of your blackbox going to start being 
reflected
  in your posts? :)
 
 Output?  A *real* programmer don't have to show you
 no steenkin' output!

Treasure of the Sierra Mudra?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 
 Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
 It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
 that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
 is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
 anything because all the things you've always loved 
 and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
 there and are always there.

Yes. Only the mind thinks THAT is empty and cold and barren, while *at 
the same time* recognizing it is completely satisfied, rock-bottom at 
last in the crystal-clear ocean of paradox. And as it surrenders into 
its own emptiness, Heart awakens into appreciation of its own 
fullness, incarnating more and more fully with the attentive breath, 
for prana is Brahman :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Unc:
   Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
   aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
  
  Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me seriously 
is
  my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have brought me
  eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the cycle of
  birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
  
  Damn, foiled again!!!
 
 Just appreciate the Now, Akasha, just appreciate the Now.
 
 We've got a really delicious Now going here...

I don't get it; could you explain it to me again and again and 
again? :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
   Unc:
Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
A: 
   Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me
seriously  is my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have
brought me
   eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the cycle of
   birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
   
   Damn, foiled again!!!

J: 
  Just appreciate the Now, Akasha, just appreciate the Now.
  
  We've got a really delicious Now going here...

R: 
 I don't get it; could you explain it to me again and again and 
 again? :-)

A:
Only if you ask, over and over and over and over again and again and
again.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Unc:
 Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
 aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
 A: 
Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me
 seriously  is my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have
 brought me
eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the 
cycle of
birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 

Damn, foiled again!!!
 
 J: 
   Just appreciate the Now, Akasha, just appreciate the Now.
   
   We've got a really delicious Now going here...
 
 R: 
  I don't get it; could you explain it to me again and again and 
  again? :-)
 
 A:
 Only if you ask, over and over and over and over again and again 
and
 again.

Deja vu




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 Unc:
  Akasha, your attempts to get me to take you seriously 
  aren't going to work any better than Judy's.  :-)
  A: 
 Ah shucks. My deeply embedded desire to have you take me
  seriously  is my last smaskara, the resolution of which would have
  brought me
 eternal residence in the NOW, total liberation from the 
 cycle of
 birth and death, Brahman Incarnate. 
 
 Damn, foiled again!!!
  
  J: 
Just appreciate the Now, Akasha, just appreciate the Now.

We've got a really delicious Now going here...
  
  R: 
   I don't get it; could you explain it to me again and again and 
   again? :-)
  
  A:
  Only if you ask, over and over and over and over again and again 
 and
  again.
 
 Deja vu

Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, right?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
  Deja vu

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, right?

I thought that was Toots Sweet.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 snip
  
  Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
  It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
  that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
  is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
  anything because all the things you've always loved 
  and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
  there and are always there.
 
 Yes. Only the mind thinks THAT is empty and cold and barren, while 
*at 
 the same time* recognizing it is completely satisfied, rock-bottom 
at 
 last in the crystal-clear ocean of paradox. And as it surrenders 
into 
 its own emptiness, Heart awakens into appreciation of its own 
 fullness, incarnating more and more fully with the attentive 
breath, 
 for prana is Brahman :-)

A fine piece of writing, that! 

the crystal-clear ocean of paradox- home of mobius dick, eh?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Deja vu
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, right?
 
 I thought that was Toots Sweet.

There's now effective drugs that can cure that for you Rory. Or think
of baseball. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 A fine piece of writing, that! 
 
 the crystal-clear ocean of paradox- home of mobius dick, eh?

The whale eating its own tail? I like it :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  snip
   
   Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
   It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
   that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
   is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
   anything because all the things you've always loved 
   and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
   there and are always there.
  
  Yes. Only the mind thinks THAT is empty and cold and barren, 
while 
 *at 
  the same time* recognizing it is completely satisfied, rock-
bottom 
 at 
  last in the crystal-clear ocean of paradox. And as it surrenders 
 into 
  its own emptiness, Heart awakens into appreciation of its own 
  fullness, incarnating more and more fully with the attentive 
 breath, 
  for prana is Brahman :-)
 
 A fine piece of writing, that! 
 
 the crystal-clear ocean of paradox- home of mobius dick, eh?

And the Kleinboggle.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
Deja vu
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
   Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, right?
  
  I thought that was Toots Sweet.
 
 There's now effective drugs that can cure that for you Rory. Or think
 of baseball.

Cure what? Alzheimer's? And think what of baseball?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   snip

Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
anything because all the things you've always loved 
and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
there and are always there.
   
   Yes. Only the mind thinks THAT is empty and cold and barren, 
 while 
  *at 
   the same time* recognizing it is completely satisfied, rock-
 bottom 
  at 
   last in the crystal-clear ocean of paradox. And as it 
surrenders 
  into 
   its own emptiness, Heart awakens into appreciation of its own 
   fullness, incarnating more and more fully with the attentive 
  breath, 
   for prana is Brahman :-)
  
  A fine piece of writing, that! 
  
  the crystal-clear ocean of paradox- home of mobius dick, eh?
 
 And the Kleinboggle.

Hiranyagarbha-Torus with a twist, still preserving a semblance of 
self-other duality?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 Deja vu
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   
Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, right?
   
   I thought that was Toots Sweet.
  
  There's now effective drugs that can cure that for you Rory. Or
think of baseball.
 
 Cure what? Alzheimer's? And think what of baseball?

Toots Sweet -- Tout suite = quickly; toot ~ too ; strippers ~ sex;
== sex too quickly.

Boy, you need one of Jim's beanie caps!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Deja vu

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

 Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, 
right?

I thought that was Toots Sweet.
   
   There's now effective drugs that can cure that for you Rory. Or
 think of baseball.
  
  Cure what? Alzheimer's? And think what of baseball?
 
 Toots Sweet -- Tout suite = quickly; toot ~ too ; strippers ~ sex;
 == sex too quickly.
 
 Boy, you need one of Jim's beanie caps!

You strike me as too clever by half, and as a result, half as clever.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
  Deja vu

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:

 Thats the stripper Barry wrote one of his stories about, 
right?

I thought that was Toots Sweet.
   
   There's now effective drugs that can cure that for you Rory. Or
 think of baseball.
  
  Cure what? Alzheimer's? And think what of baseball?
 
 Toots Sweet -- Tout suite = quickly; toot ~ too ; strippers ~ sex;
 == sex too quickly.
 
 Boy, you need one of Jim's beanie caps!

*lol* I apologize, Akasha; it has been a very very long time since I 
was concerned with such; I didn't have that reference in my ready-
access file. It was indeed both a clever and logical twist on my 
pun :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 snip
  
  Don't listen because in nirvana it's not like that.  
  It's not empty or cold or barren.  You don't remember 
  that the ecstasy and completion of absorption in God 
  is so fantastic that you can't possibly have lost 
  anything because all the things you've always loved 
  and always experienced came forth from there and exist 
  there and are always there.
 
 Yes. Only the mind thinks THAT is empty and cold and 
barren, 
   while 
*at 
 the same time* recognizing it is completely satisfied, 
rock-
   bottom 
at 
 last in the crystal-clear ocean of paradox. And as it 
  surrenders 
into 
 its own emptiness, Heart awakens into appreciation of its 
 own 
 fullness, incarnating more and more fully with the 
attentive 
breath, 
 for prana is Brahman :-)

A fine piece of writing, that! 

the crystal-clear ocean of paradox- home of mobius dick, 
eh?
   
   And the Kleinboggle.
  
  Hiranyagarbha-Torus with a twist, still preserving a semblance 
of 
  self-other duality?
 
 I'm looking into it...

...and obtaining a View of our own backside, no doubt :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
snip  

 (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
 illusion.
 
 (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
 complaining about, never has been.
 
 (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
 completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
 I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
 
 Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
 in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
 play therapist:
 
 If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
 in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
 the Now.

*lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to turn 
  this 
into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really 
think 
  it 
was worth commenting on :-)
   
   Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
   smiley face, I might be convinced you were
   capable of expressing an honest reaction.
  
  *lol* I don't give a crap what you might or not be convinced 
of :-)
 
 but you DO post a lot...

...said the pot to the kettle. :-) Do YOU post a lot because you 
care what other personas think of your persona? Do you care whether 
other personas happen to agree with the opinion your persona might 
be expressing in any given moment? These things are not particularly 
high on my list, anyhow, and I could be wrong but I doubt they rank 
very high on yours :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-29 Thread Rory Goff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 snip  
 
  (1) The small self *is* Judy.  Judy's the 
  illusion.
  
  (2) Being in ignorance is *not* what Judy is 
  complaining about, never has been.
  
  (3) All three of you--Rory, Barry, and Jim--have
  completely missed the point I was making to Rory.
  I really didn't think I was being *that* subtle.
  
  Take another look at what I wrote a little earlier
  in the thread, commenting on Rory's attempt to
  play therapist:
  
  If I work *really really hard* on this, someday
  in the future I may come to be able to appreciate
  the Now.
 
 *lol* Yes, I appreciate(d) your intellectual attempt to 
turn 
   this 
 into an infinitely regressing paradox, but didn't really 
 think 
   it 
 was worth commenting on :-)

Now if you'd just take out the lol and the
smiley face, I might be convinced you were
capable of expressing an honest reaction.
   
   *lol* I don't give a crap what you might or not be convinced 
 of :-)
  
  but you DO post a lot...
 
 ...said the pot to the kettle. :-) Do YOU post a lot because you 
 care what other personas think of your persona? Do you care 
whether 
 other personas happen to agree with the opinion your persona might 
 be expressing in any given moment? These things are not 
particularly 
 high on my list, anyhow, and I could be wrong but I doubt they 
rank 
 very high on yours :-)

OTOH I very much enjoy loving and being loved; understanding and 
being understood; tickling and being tickled by humor and self-
recognition -- some of the reasons I *do* post here a lot, which 
don't have a whole lot to do with persona, opinion and so on 
AFAICS :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 A:
 No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. 
The
 deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a 
  la whats
 wrong with this picture.
 
 J:
What's wrong with the picture of somebody not
wanting to be overshadowed?  You've got me
curious--can you articulate it?
 
 U: 
   I'd love to hear akasha's answer, 
 
 I may sell tickets then :)
 
 U:
  but mine 
   would be, It's a marvelous way of clinging
   to the notion of unenlightenment.  To want
   to not be overshadowed, you have to believe
   you are.  And the funny thing is, the moment
   you drop that belief, you aren't.
 
 :J
  Yeah, that answer would be bull.
  
  Especially from somebody who admits he isn't
  enlightened.
 
 
 Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole
 paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital,
 either on or off?

YES!  That's exactly the issue.

I realized that some time back, during the discussions
about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
with a new one that more accurately described my 
subjective experience.

 Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. 

Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
I was not enlightened.  I just never appreciated it 
until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit-
nessing made it impossible not to appreciate.  Since
then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to
background many times, but what I realized during the
'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been
present.  What I realized when I first appreciated it
was that it had *always* been present.

 And
 it can be delicate at first, and fade (yellow dye and cloth anyone?)
 or become overshadowed. But it keeps coming back. Sometimes more
 noticable, sometimes present only when one notices it --- where are
 my glasses? (you are wearng them, silly) is a good analogy. 

And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from
background to foreground any time you want.  It's just
the neatest thing.
 
snip a host of great experiences

The thing that brought it from background to foreground
most recently was, strangely enough, watching an old
movie on DVD.  It was Roger Corman's, The Raven, which
starred Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, and
a young guy in one of his first film roles, as Peter
Lorre's son.  This young actor was SO bad that it made
you want to cringe.  It was just amazing to watch.  It
was like I was watching a brilliant actor brilliantly
playing the part of the worst actor ever filmed.

I was.  It was Jack Nicholson.  The thing is, he was a
great actor even then.  He just didn't appreciate it,
so his range was limited, and he clung to old ideas of
being a bad actor, trapped by ignorance and inexperience.
It wasn't true.  All that he ever became was already
present, just not appreciated, and thus unused.

That's the thing that is striking me about all these
conversations last night and this morning.  Some people
who have learned to appreciate what has always been
present are talking to others who have not.  The ones
who have not appreciated their own enlightenment are
playing a role, clinging to the illusion of their 
ignorance as strongly as Jack was clinging to the 
illusion of being a bad actor in The Raven.  It's
all very, very, very, very funny.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
  To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and 
  then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, 
is 
  funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting 
IT 
  is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and 
  goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into 
it, 
  and then get bounced out.
 Judy writes:
 That's certainly been my experience.  And it's
 definitely progressive, as you suggest later.
 Tom T:
 Jean Kline awoke in 1955 and continued till his death in the late
 90's. From his book I AM page 83 para 3  Enlightenment is
 instantaneous but the mind becomes gradually clearer. The clarity of
 the mind brings about a relaxation from old patterns, a freeing of
 energy which in turn stimulates clearsightedness. It leads us toward
 living free from all striving to attain something, free from the
 tension brought about by waiting for something to happen, 
expectation.
 The above seems to be the norm. The Byron Katies and the Eckhart
 Tolles seem to be the exception rather than the norm. In looking 
back
 I can agree that was the case for me. There was a moment that was 
way
 out of time and something big had happened but I was not clear 
enough
 to get it. Years later in clearness and clarity is was easy to see 
the
 times IT had come to the foreground and then had slipped away 
because
 it could not be clearly appreciated. Tom

Exactly.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Akasha:
   Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole
   paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous,
digital, either on or off?
 
 Unc: 
  YES!  That's exactly the issue.
  
  I realized that some time back, during the discussions
  about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
  made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
  with a new one that more accurately described my 
  subjective experience.
 
 A: 
   Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. 
 
 U: 
  Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
  I was not enlightened. 
 
If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate.

A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, 
reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come
back, they were wrong. 

I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed
Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will
celebrate their saintliness. 










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   snip
To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years 
and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total 
light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people 
keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a 
degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still 
inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out.
   
   That's certainly been my experience.  And it's
   definitely progressive, as you suggest later.
  
  So, to clarify (my understanding), its not that you don't want 
to be
  overshadowed (as in a permanent state of overshadowment).  Its 
not
  that Awareness is not (never) present. Its that you simply want 
to
  be overshadowed less often. That you want Awareness to be 
Aware / 
  present more often.
 
 Sure, preferably all the time, but I'll take
 whatever I can get!
 
 I also find that the more often/longer Awareness
 is present, the more of a pain it is when it
 goes away.

Still laughing uncontrollably.  It's all about
what you want rather than what is.  If you
only learned to appreciate what already is,
you'd have what you want.  The longer you
wants it, the further away it gets.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Akasha:
   Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the 
whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is 
   dichotomous, digital, either on or off?
 
 Unc: 
  YES!  That's exactly the issue.
  
  I realized that some time back, during the discussions
  about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
  made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
  with a new one that more accurately described my 
  subjective experience.
 
 A: 
   Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not 
   before. 
 
 U: 
  Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
  I was not enlightened. 
 
 That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. 
 First, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. 

Me, either.  I was just using the terminology already
being used in these discussions.

 It can create
 distinctions, it can creates longing for titles, it can create 
 false egos, it can creates scams, etc. And the upside is?

Giving some people who are anxious for the title
something to do with their time?  :-)

  I just never appreciated it 
  until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit-
  nessing made it impossible not to appreciate.  Since
  then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to
  background many times, but what I realized during the
  'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been
  present.  What I realized when I first appreciated it
  was that it had *always* been present.
 
 A:
 yes, all that is good. And similar. But if one wanted to play the
 labels game, it would seem that when the attention of Awareness (of
 awareness) slips from foreground to background, its not E.  But I
 think E labels are bogus, so who cares. Claim all you want. :)

No claims, merely reporting.  And having fun.

 A:
   And it can be delicate at first, and fade (yellow dye and cloth
 anyone?) and become overshadowed. But it keeps coming back.
 Sometimes more noticable, sometimes present only when one notices 
 it --- where are my glasses? (you are wearng them, silly) is 
 a good analogy. 
 
 U: 
  And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from
  background to foreground any time you want.  It's just
  the neatest thing.
 
 A:
 YES. And it is always accessable. It is bitchin.  Still, in that
 stage, I would hold that is not E. If I was playing the label game.

I no longer make that distinction.  Lately I've discovered
a few fairly foolproof methods of bringing it from back-
ground to foreground anytime I want.  The thing is, I 
rarely want to.  As someone -- perhaps you -- said in
these discussions, there is no difference.  The wanting
there to be one feels false, whereas the appreciation of
what is already going on feels non-false.

 U: 
  The thing that brought it from background to foreground
  most recently was, strangely enough, watching an old
  movie on DVD.  It was Roger Corman's, The Raven, which
  starred Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, and
  a young guy in one of his first film roles, as Peter
  Lorre's son.  This young actor was SO bad that it made
  you want to cringe.  It was just amazing to watch.  It
  was like I was watching a brilliant actor brilliantly
  playing the part of the worst actor ever filmed.
  
  It was.  It was Jack Nicholson.  The thing is, he was a
  great actor even then.  He just didn't appreciate it,
  so his range was limited, and he clung to old ideas of
  being a bad actor, trapped by ignorance and inexperience.
  It wasn't true.  All that he ever became was already
  present, just not appreciated, and thus unused.
 
 Nice example.

Funny movie, funnier for his performance.  :-)

  That's the thing that is striking me about all these
  conversations last night and this morning.  Some people
  who have learned to appreciate what has always been
  present are talking to others who have not.  The ones
  who have not appreciated their own enlightenment are
  playing a role, clinging to the illusion of their 
  ignorance as strongly as Jack was clinging to the 
  illusion of being a bad actor in The Raven.  It's
  all very, very, very, very funny.
 
 Perhaps I am viewed as one of those. 

Those?  If I viewed you as anything, which I don't 
think I do, it would be as one of the people who has
learned to appreciate what has already been present.

 I just am not interested in the
 label game. Labels are not real. 

The map is not the territory.  I think what's going
on here is that Judy is more attached to being able
to say, Ah...finally...I have the map, than in 
actually getting to the place it points to.  And 
the last couple of days that's been striking me as
just hilarious, side-splittingly funny.

 Experience and Understanding are
 real. And both are spectral - extending along a long/wide 
 spectrum. 

I would say that experience was far more real than
understanding.  The more experiences I have of higher
states of 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Akasha:
Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the 
whole
paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous,
 digital, either on or off?
  
  Unc: 
   YES!  That's exactly the issue.
   
   I realized that some time back, during the discussions
   about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
   made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
   with a new one that more accurately described my 
   subjective experience.
  
  A: 
Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If 
not before. 
  
  U: 
   Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
   I was not enlightened. 
  
 If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate.

That's just Hindu dogma, not accepted by everyone in 
the reincarnation business.

 A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, 
 reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come
 back, they were wrong. 

Just dogma.  I see three possibilities for the fully 
enlightened being at the time of death.  They could
choose to do the drop back into the ocean thing 
and not incarnate, they could choose to incarnate
for the purpose of helping other sentient beings, or
they could choose not to choose and just see what
happens.  This is actually a pretty standard Buddhist
way of seeing the situation.
 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Akasha:
Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the 
whole
paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous,
 digital, either on or off?
  
  Unc: 
   YES!  That's exactly the issue.
   
   I realized that some time back, during the discussions
   about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
   made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
   with a new one that more accurately described my 
   subjective experience.
  
  A: 
Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not 
before. 
  
  U: 
   Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
   I was not enlightened. 
  
 If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate.
 
 A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, 
 reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come
 back, they were wrong. 
 

So much for bodhisatvas?

 I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed
 Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will
 celebrate their saintliness.

MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye-
opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   Akasha:
 Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the 
 whole
 paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous,
  digital, either on or off?
   
   Unc: 
YES!  That's exactly the issue.

I realized that some time back, during the discussions
about 'appreciation.'  Some comment by, I think, Tom
made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up
with a new one that more accurately described my 
subjective experience.
   
   A: 
 Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not 
 before. 
   
   U: 
Before.  There has never been a moment in my life when
I was not enlightened. 
   
  If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate.
  
  A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, 
  reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they 
come
  back, they were wrong. 
  
 
 So much for bodhisatvas?
 
  I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-
proclaimed
  Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will
  celebrate their saintliness.
 
 MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an 
eye-
 opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened.

Pun not intended...




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread Peter


--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 [...]
  I ask because I've said in a number of posts that
 the
  longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am.
  And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual
 process,
  so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that
 belief.
 
 MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process,
 IIRC.

It appears to be a gradual process from the side of
avidya. What is being experienced is the gradual
increase of sattva as the body and mind are purified.
When consciousness stops projecting into and
identifying with boundaries and awakens to itself
then it becomes self-evident that there was no gradual
process of enlightenment; that this has always been.
But of course, prior to this realization, talking this
 way just leads to the moodmaking of advaita, not
practicing yogic techniques and the continuation of a
falsehood-avidya.



 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread Vaj



On 9/27/05 7:13 PM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
 To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and
 then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is
 funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT
 is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and
 goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it,
 and then get bounced out.
 
And it's
 definitely progressive, as you suggest later.

There are gradual paths and there are sudden paths.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 
 --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  [...]
   I ask because I've said in a number of posts that
  the
   longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am.
   And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual
  process,
   so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that
  belief.
  
  MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process,
  IIRC.
 
 It appears to be a gradual process from the side of
 avidya. What is being experienced is the gradual
 increase of sattva as the body and mind are purified.
 When consciousness stops projecting into and
 identifying with boundaries and awakens to itself
 then it becomes self-evident that there was no gradual
 process of enlightenment; that this has always been.
 But of course, prior to this realization, talking this
  way just leads to the moodmaking of advaita, not
 practicing yogic techniques and the continuation of a
 falsehood-avidya.

Not necessarily.  Talking this way is merely
talking that way, which is completely accurate
from a particular point of view.  Neither the
talking or the POV implies any actions on the 
part of the person, nor any beliefs.  In my case, 
I could talk from this POV one moment and another 
the next, and see absolutely no conflict.

Taking a POV is simply taking a POV.  Some folks
like to read more into it.

From one point of view, there has never been a 
moment in my entire life at which I was not
enlightened.

From another, there was definitely a moment in
my life in which I first clearly experienced
enlightenment.  Since then, that clarity has
come and gone, and become more or less full.

From yet another point of view, I do not believe
in the concept of full enlightenment at all.  I
do not believe that there is an end point to
evolution or a point at which anyone could be
declared to be fully enlightened.

From one point of view, there could appear to be
a point at which I was not enlightened.  From
another point of view, no such point ever 
existed.  From one point of view, there could
appear to be some kind of subjective difference
between 'before' and 'after.'  From another, 
there is no difference whatsoever.

ALL of these statements are completely true,
and express my subjective experiences perfectly,
just seen from different points of view.  If you
want to see contradictions in them, that's YOUR
point of view.  Knowledge is structured in POV.  :-)






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread Vaj



On 9/28/05 4:20 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed
 Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will
 celebrate their saintliness.
 
 MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye-
 opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened.

Indeed it should be considered an important sign of being able to remain in
the non-dual state. While one can have siddhis without enlightenment,
enlightenment is invariably accompanied by siddhi. Otherwise you would not
have otherthrown duality. Many confuse learning to integrate the non-dual
state with full integration of the non-dual state.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
 To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and
 then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is
 funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT
 is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and
 goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it,
 and then get bounced out.
Judy wrote: 
And it's
 definitely progressive, as you suggest later.

Vaj wrote:
There are gradual paths and there are sudden paths.

Tom T:
I can not remember the author but believe it was Nisargadatta who
said,It is always gradual until it is sudden. WHich certainly leaves
open All Possibilities. Most of us on the TMO path seem to have been
given the slow and gradual path. No complaint, just an observation
from those I have met. TOm




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!

2005-09-28 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
Akasha 108 writes:snipped from long interchange with Unc
That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. First, I
see no value in labels such as enlightenment. It can create
distinctions, it can creates longing for titles, it can create false
egos, it can creates scams, etc. And the upside is?

Tom T:
I really have a problem with that E word for two reasons. One it
carries such tremendous baggage that it does all of what Akasha has
said above without anyone knowing it does. The second reason is that
in western society the word light is totally enmeshed with the concept
of switch/on/off. It is subtle but implies something not intended by
the Rishis of old as they had no switches to link up with light. For
me the word Awake is pretty simple and conveys my understanding that
PC is in the foreground all the time along with whatever else is going
on. It is as good a descriptor as any other word. Maybe Akasha can
come up with a different word. No need to label but definately IT
needs some language to describe what is going on without a fifty word
description plus another fifty word disclaimer. 






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