[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yeah, yeah...we get it. TM good, other techniques bad. :-) But what about my real point? Would you be comfortable with the possibility that many or even *all* of the states of mind that have been *interpreted* as enlight- ment experiences over the centuries may be nothing more (nor less) than a few neurons in the brain deciding to wake up and boogie? I *am* comfortable with that. I've *experienced* some things I *interpreted* as enlightenment. But at the same time, I know that I was programmed for many years *to* interpret such experiences as enlightenment. The experience itself may have been nothing more than a few random neurons in my brain deciding to do their laundry. It doesn't really *matter* that much to me whether such a thing as enlightenment really exists or whether I just interpreted a particular set of experiences that way because I had been taught to. The exper- iences were what they were; I am content just to enjoy them. One of the films I really liked was Phenomenon, starring John Travolta. His character has the exper- ience of seeing a blazing white light descending upon him from the sky, and after that experience he develops paranormal powers. His neighbors believe that he was influenced by aliens; he doesn't know *what* to believe, but it's obvious that the powers actually exist. The ending of the film puts a very different spin on *all* of their musings. But the bottom line was that the experience was *interesting*, and valuable to the experiencer. Bagging it by putting a label on it doesn't make it any more valuable, or less...it's just bagging something. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. Or the firing of a particular set of neurons may be only the physiological manifestation of any number of different mind/consciousness states (or maybe that's what you're saying). Attributing a particular experience merely to the firing of neurons, and assuming any differences are simply a matter of individual interpretations of the experience, may be a function of the fact that the firing of the neurons is the only thing we're currently able to measure. Actually, the specific study Barry describes sounds suspiciously like the work of Michael Persinger, the dude who tried to associate TM with epilepsy on the basis of a questionnaire asking subjects about such things as experiences of vibrations, hearing one's name called, paranormal phenomena, profound meaning from reading poetry/prose, and religious phenomenology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. My response to the above situation would be to tell the guy to familiarize himself the qualities of a sociopath, shown below, and avoid interaction with such people -- be especially aware that the spiritual world provides excellent cover for many sociopaths who misuse concepts like Self, non-doer, and everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law to support their mundane and destructive manipulative behaviors. Be especially wary of any phony egoists who declares the list below is not applicable to them because of their special state of Enlightenment. Qualities of a Sociopath # Grandiose sense of self-worth # Pathological lying # Cunning/manipulative # Lack of remorse or guilt # Shallow emotions # Charismatic/superficial charm # Lack of empathy # Parasitic lifestyle # Poor behavioral controls # Narcisstic # Early behavior problems with other children # Lack of realistic, long-term plans # Promiscuous sexual behavior # Impulsivity # Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yeah, yeah...we get it. TM good, other techniques bad. :-) Of course, I didn't say every Buddhist technique, only some -- in fact one, and I may be incorrect about that. However, there IS a distinct physiological difference between witnessing ala TM, and dissociation caused by traumatic sexual abuse. The latter seems to be due to a strengthening of the analytical side of the brain at the expense of the rest, while the former seems to be due to a more wholistic functioning where one side doesn't always have an advantage on the other, and where both sides tend to be in-tune with each other, as shown by more coherent brainwave activity when comparing the two sides. But what about my real point? Would you be comfortable with the possibility that many or even *all* of the states of mind that have been *interpreted* as enlight- ment experiences over the centuries may be nothing more (nor less) than a few neurons in the brain deciding to wake up and boogie? That has been MMY's point for at least 30 years: Spiritual and Material Values Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith -it is on the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable. -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi I *am* comfortable with that. I've *experienced* some things I *interpreted* as enlightenment. But at the same time, I know that I was programmed for many years *to* interpret such experiences as enlightenment. The experience itself may have been nothing more than a few random neurons in my brain deciding to do their laundry. If a given technique consistently leads to a specific state of consciousness that spontaneously gives rise to descriptions of enlightenment similar to those found in various spiritual traditions, it isn't a stretch to suggest that the state of enlightenment exists, and is facilitated by practice of said technique. It doesn't really *matter* that much to me whether such a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. Or the firing of a particular set of neurons may be only the physiological manifestation of any number of different mind/consciousness states (or maybe that's what you're saying). I think we can take the western view of consciousness being secondary for any state prior to Unity, not because your point is invalid, but simply because there's no concrete way to measure a distinction. Attributing a particular experience merely to the firing of neurons, and assuming any differences are simply a matter of individual interpretations of the experience, may be a function of the fact that the firing of the neurons is the only thing we're currently able to measure. Sure, but that may apply no mater HOW subtle our measuring instruments become. Actually, the specific study Barry describes sounds suspiciously like the work of Michael Persinger, the dude who tried to associate TM with epilepsy on the basis of a questionnaire asking subjects about such things as experiences of vibrations, hearing one's name called, paranormal phenomena, profound meaning from reading poetry/prose, and religious phenomenology. Sure, peringer's work influences a lot of people, including Alan Watts. On the other hand, we have MMY's take on the subject that I quoted a earlier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
