[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Seems to me that if there's anything to this Unity/Brahma consciousness thing, that that would be inevitable. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Wow. Then that kinda confirms my experience which I related in another post... Perhaps, perhaps not. What does Self look like to someone in Unity? What does God look like to someone in GC? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. OK, but I wanted to emphasize that the correct practice of TM _requires_ that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice, for Hindu practitioners or non-Hindus. People opposed to TM are always pushing the canard that the mantras assigned to people learning TM make TM a religious (Hindu) practice, and it is not. Assignment of meaning to the mantra is an option outside the practice of TM for those of the Hindu persuasion, but if one were to focus on meaning, any meaning, during TM, one would not be practicing TM. *Deliberately* focus. If its ANY kind of focus that distorts the practice, then one is left with the fact that one isn't practicing TM because one heard a rumor about some deity being associated with the mantra, etc.,and that if that thought popped up and you started worrying about the bija-ness of the TM mantra, then you couldn't be TMing at that point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Is there any way to tell whether TM's influence results from the mantra's vibe or from the experience of pure consciousness, which is what happens when the mantra fades away? The old TM explanation always made sense to me -- that the mantra is a sound that tends to go away, leaving one's awareness without an object; leaving it aware of awareness itself. This notion that TM's benefits come from the sound's vibration, or from an entity associated with that sound, seems primitive. Inelegant. Sub-Occam. But as I ask above, who can tell? We have lots of people here who've used TM mantras at some length. I'd love to read people's experiences in terms of what each of us has observed firsthand in all these decades of using our mantras. Get this discussion out of the realm of theory and into our direct experiences. Thereby pulling the flower up by the roots... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. OK, but I wanted to emphasize that the correct practice of TM _requires_ that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice, for Hindu practitioners or non-Hindus. People opposed to TM are always pushing the canard that the mantras assigned to people learning TM make TM a religious (Hindu) practice, and it is not. Assignment of meaning to the mantra is an option outside the practice of TM for those of the Hindu persuasion, but if one were to focus on meaning, any meaning, during TM, one would not be practicing TM. *Deliberately* focus. If its ANY kind of focus that distorts the practice, then one is left with the fact that one isn't practicing TM because one heard a rumor about some deity being associated with the mantra, etc.,and that if that thought popped up and you started worrying about the bija-ness of the TM mantra, then you couldn't be TMing at that point. And this is why MMY doesn't talk about this because it doesn't help your pracice at all. In fact it can hinder it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Everyone bow down to the effulgence of Shri Shri Barryji, who is obviously immersed in realization and much much superior to us poor little Sidhas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, uvulonicus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone bow down to the effulgence of Shri Shri Barryji, who is obviously immersed in realization and much much superior to us poor little Sidhas. See what happens when you've been trained for decades to bow down to someone? It gets to be a habit... :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 27, 2005, at 1:44 PM, Patrick Gillam wrote:--- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less "religious" they seem. Sort of like "Christ" the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal "Christ" as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, "My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god." Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. I've experienced the form and the formless aspect of my TM ishta mantra. In order for that to manifest however I went to a teacher who instructed me in how to create the yantra, the visual form of the devata. The yantra of your devata relates to the aspect of seeing.I know of several people who had this experience related to their TM practice, but it is rare (and propbably linked to these peoples own past-life credit).When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual forms of their devatas in their rooms. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 27, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Patrick Gillam wrote:--- authfriend wrote: Gillam wrote: Yet people in the know tell me [the mantra] is an ishta-deva -- "the god one prays most" (Wikipedia). People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. Maybe there are people reading this who consider the TM mantras to be ishta devas and would be willing to cite the basis for their understanding. Yes, these are seed syllables for specific devatas. In general seed syllables of peaceful deities are helpful for finding a calm, peaceful, "transcendental" state. The added benefit is they will awaken prana-kundalini and also produce the effect of that particular devata.If you hang around a TM practitioner long enough, you can tell what their mantra is.There are two types of seed syllables, bijas and yonis. Bijas begin with a consonant and yogis with a vowel. The sequence of letters determines the form. The sarada-tilaka-tantra describes the sequence and meaning of all the TM mantras. I've posted those quotes here before. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, uvulonicus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Everyone bow down to the effulgence of Shri Shri Barryji, who is obviously immersed in realization and much much superior to us poor little Sidhas. snicker --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 27, 2005, at 4:09 PM, Peter wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. This is not what the tantras which present these mantras and devatas teach. There is a particular way to communicate to deities and it does not use gross mentation or speech but communicates through pure symbolic communication: mudras. Devatas will also possess "action mantras" which allow you to manifest their energy in a specific way to assist your personal evolution.But no, using "vaikhari", gross speech, is not using the proper medium of communication for a devata. At their level of existence entire sentences, paragraphs or intents are just "flashed" through a simple symbolic element. Conversely, when a devata communicates to a yogin, entire ideas or teachings can be conveyed in a single symbol.There is also a samsaric aspect of devatas that are not representative of their actual manifestation but what TMers might call "unstressing". To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 27, 2005, at 7:15 PM, Rick Archer wrote:on 12/27/05 5:54 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: Maharishi always said, and we said in lectures, that you could transcend on any sound but that the mantras, due to their life-supporting vibratory quality, provided benefits that other sounds didn't. This dovetails nicely with Peter's post about his TM mantra generating bliss. So Rick, you're doing an Amma meditation these days, right? And you've used other sounds in meditation-like roles, such as for the sidhis, or maybe a bliss technique or something. In your experience, did your TM mantra provide benefits other sounds haven't? I'm using Amma's mantra TM-style. Experiences are better than ever, but I can't say why for sure. Many influences. Didn't have bliss technique. Other techniques (i.e., sidhis) didn't involve anything for its sound value. I received two mantras from Amma--one of which is my TM mantra in it's full form. She gives the entire dharani--the full chain of mantra, the Om, the Seed, and the rest. So you're getting the full thing, from the start. The sadhana for practicing it was very beautiful. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 28, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote:on 12/28/05 8:41 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual forms of their devatas in their rooms.Were they instructed to have them? That was unclear. They were all on puja altars. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Question below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 28, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote: on 12/28/05 8:41 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual forms of their devatas in their rooms. Were they instructed to have them? That was unclear. They were all on puja altars. **END** Vaj, were these visual forms the yantras or the anthropomorphic images? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 28, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Marek Reavis wrote:Question below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 28, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote: on 12/28/05 8:41 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual forms of their devatas in their rooms. Were they instructed to have them? That was unclear. They were all on puja altars. **END** Vaj, were these visual forms the yantras or the anthropomorphic images? Images of the devatas themselves, anthropomorphic images. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
On Dec 28, 2005, at 11:07 AM, Marek Reavis wrote:Question below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 28, 2005, at 10:27 AM, Rick Archer wrote: on 12/28/05 8:41 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was last at South Fallsburg with Purusha, they had visual forms of their devatas in their rooms. Were they instructed to have them? That was unclear. They were all on puja altars. **END** Vaj, were these visual forms the yantras or the anthropomorphic images? My first impession was that they had been instructed in or were doing on their own, 16-limbed worship of their devata (or similar worship). This is very common in the tradition of the Shankaracharyas (and elsewhere). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International on 12/28/05 10:19 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My first impession was that they had been instructed in or were doing on their own, 16-limbed worship of their devata (or similar worship). This is very common in the tradition of the Shankaracharyas (and elsewhere). I used to put lots of posters of gods on my walls, but I wasnt instructed to, and I didnt know what association any of them might have with my mantra. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Its also a matter of perspective. Prior to Realization, I was mostly an unhappy person- yep I admit it, after nearly thirty years of meditation...So when these special experiences occurred, I clung to them to boost my faith, and as life preservers in a raging sea of my own making. Then when I turned inside out, the experiences that were so special in an isolated and linear way, were still special, only now on the backdrop of everyday magnificence. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Its also a matter of perspective. Prior to Realization, I was mostly an unhappy person- yep I admit it, after nearly thirty years of meditation...So when these special experiences occurred, I clung to them to boost my faith, and as life preservers in a raging sea of my own making. Yup. Exactly what I had in mind. Then when I turned inside out, the experiences that were so special in an isolated and linear way, were still special, only now on the backdrop of everyday magnificence. Well said. For me, after the first experiences of realization, any fascination I'd had with subtle phenomena such as have been mentioned here lately lost all appeal. It was like realizing that I'd been suckered into thinking the flame of one puny little match was a great source of light, when the sun had been shining all along. On the other hand, I literally ran out of energy a couple of weeks ago, to the point where my friend had to go get me a protein drink. I was lucid, but literally could not move. I felt the angel gabriel enfold me in his wings and comfort me until I could get sustenance, which immediately after drinking it, I was completely restored. So this is the other side of the coin, that such experiences are available still, only as we need them. Oh, and why the angel gabriel? Don't know- first thing that popped into my head, and there he was... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self- important asshole? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Its also a matter of perspective. Prior to Realization, I was mostly an unhappy person- yep I admit it, after nearly thirty years of meditation...So when these special experiences occurred, I clung to them to boost my faith, and as life preservers in a raging sea of my own making. Yup. Exactly what I had in mind. Then when I turned inside out, the experiences that were so special in an isolated and linear way, were still special, only now on the backdrop of everyday magnificence. Well said. For me, after the first experiences of realization, any fascination I'd had with subtle phenomena such as have been mentioned here lately lost all appeal. It was like realizing that I'd been suckered into thinking the flame of one puny little match was a great source of light, when the sun had been shining all along. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Ignoring your attempt to start a fight yet again, where along the Way did you get the impression that realization was *incompatible* with being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Where along the Way did you get the impression that realization (being the basis of everything) could possibly be incompatible with *anything*? It seems to me that being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole (were that true) is better than being a spiritual retard. :-) :-) :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. I've always felt that a fascination with subtle phenomena like this was just an indication of lack of experiences of realization. If one never gets to one's destination, one gets fascinated by the silly tourist attractions along the way. Its also a matter of perspective. Prior to Realization, I was mostly an unhappy person- yep I admit it, after nearly thirty years of meditation...So when these special experiences occurred, I clung to them to boost my faith, and as life preservers in a raging sea of my own making. Yup. Exactly what I had in mind. Then when I turned inside out, the experiences that were so special in an isolated and linear way, were still special, only now on the backdrop of everyday magnificence. Well said. For me, after the first experiences of realization, any fascination I'd had with subtle phenomena such as have been mentioned here lately lost all appeal. It was like realizing that I'd been suckered into thinking the flame of one puny little match was a great source of light, when the sun had been shining all along. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Ignoring your attempt to start a fight yet again, where along the Way did you get the impression that realization was *incompatible* with being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Where along the Way did you get the impression that realization (being the basis of everything) could possibly be incompatible with *anything*? It seems to me that being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole (were that true) is better than being a spiritual retard. :-) :-) :-) (Except, as you've explained to us at some length, in the case of Tom Pall.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Ignoring your attempt to start a fight yet again, (Says Barry, jumping into the fight with both feet.) where along the Way did you get the impression that realization was *incompatible* with being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Where along the Way did you get the impression that realization (being the basis of everything) could possibly be incompatible with *anything*? It seems to me that being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole (were that true) is better than being a spiritual retard. :-) :-) :-) (Except, as you've explained to us at some length, in the case of Tom Pall.) (Well, actually, except in the case of anybody Barry disagrees with about anything.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Ignoring your attempt to start a fight yet again, (Says Barry, jumping into the fight with both feet.) where along the Way did you get the impression that realization was *incompatible* with being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Where along the Way did you get the impression that realization (being the basis of everything) could possibly be incompatible with *anything*? It seems to me that being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole (were that true) is better than being a spiritual retard. :-) :-) :-) (Except, as you've explained to us at some length, in the case of Tom Pall.) (Well, actually, except in the case of anybody Barry disagrees with about anything.) I agree with Barry in that realization of the conscious nature doesn't mean one is necessarily aware of the state of ones conditioning, Barry, himself, being a prime example of this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Because he is having 'experiences of realization', plural. Realization is not something that comes and goes. All the other stuff is sign posts pointing the way to it. Realization, when the experience comes, stays. There is no sometimes its there and sometimes its not. It is the culmination of a process of culturing the nervous system to be able to exist in any state and continue to have the experience of Realization, simultaneously (just like everyone says...). So, if we are just having periods of lucidity, alternating with periods of mud, we are not Realized, and can still be enslaved to our small e ego. Ignoring your attempt to start a fight yet again, (Says Barry, jumping into the fight with both feet.) where along the Way did you get the impression that realization was *incompatible* with being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Where along the Way did you get the impression that realization (being the basis of everything) could possibly be incompatible with *anything*? It seems to me that being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole (were that true) is better than being a spiritual retard. :-) :-) :-) (Except, as you've explained to us at some length, in the case of Tom Pall.) (Well, actually, except in the case of anybody Barry disagrees with about anything.) I agree with Barry in that realization of the conscious nature doesn't mean one is necessarily aware of the state of ones conditioning, Barry, himself, being a prime example of this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Because he is having 'experiences of realization', plural. Realization is not something that comes and goes. All the other stuff is sign posts pointing the way to it. Realization, when the experience comes, stays. For the period it stays. :-) If it's stayed a while for you, maybe it will continue to do so. Then again, maybe it will be gone tomorrow and you'll feel like a consummate ass for claiming to know how the universe works, eh? :-) There is no sometimes its there and sometimes its not. It is the culmination of a process of culturing the nervous system to be able to exist in any state and continue to have the experience of Realization, simultaneously (just like everyone says...). Well, that's a nice theory. Me, I don't believe that the state of one's nervous system has anything whatsover to do with realization. Nothing in the state of the nervous system can prevent realization, and nothing in it can 'cause' realization. Reali- zation just is. Sometimes it is clearly, sometimes it's not. :-) So, if we are just having periods of lucidity, alternating with periods of mud, we are not Realized, and can still be enslaved to our small e ego. Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Because he is having 'experiences of realization', plural. Realization is not something that comes and goes. All the other stuff is sign posts pointing the way to it. Realization, when the experience comes, stays. For the period it stays. :-) If it's stayed a while for you, maybe it will continue to do so. Then again, maybe it will be gone tomorrow and you'll feel like a consummate ass for claiming to know how the universe works, eh? :-) I hope so! There is no sometimes its there and sometimes its not. It is the culmination of a process of culturing the nervous system to be able to exist in any state and continue to have the experience of Realization, simultaneously (just like everyone says...). Well, that's a nice theory. Experience only- no theories. Something I have watched occur. Me, I don't believe that the state of one's nervous system has anything whatsover to do with realization. Well...it IS a paradox...The culturing of the nervous system, and what I mean by that is the learning of the nervous system to adjust appropriately and instantaneously to every moment, such that the experience of the absolute is not lost, or overshadowed, is a necessary element for sustaining Realization. However, the choice is always ours whether or not we choose to turn ourselves inside out, and in so doing, accept Realization. So it seems there are two experiences, one purely mechanical, and one we bring about willingly. Both are interdependent. Nothing in the state of the nervous system can prevent realization, and nothing in it can 'cause' realization. Reali- zation just is. Sometimes it is clearly, sometimes it's not. :-) So, if we are just having periods of lucidity, alternating with periods of mud, we are not Realized, and can still be enslaved to our small e ego. Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... No claims here. No claim checks needed either ;). Just writing about experience. What else is there? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... No claims here. No claim checks needed either ;). Just writing about experience. What else is there? The difference seems to be that you're convinced that all experiences of enlightenment are somehow the same. I am not. So I only write about my own, without trying to speak for anyone else. You might give it a try sometime... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self- important asshole? Was he having Realization or was he having Experiences of various Sidhis and calling it Realization ? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
All experience comes and goes, no matter how sublime, but the source of these experiences, the Awareness, doesn't come and go. By going nowhere, continue to experience having arrived. By not taking one step in any direction, you arrive instantly. You arrive by not going anywhere. Just stay there. Just see that you are always That, even if the mind creates a story line telling you that you are other than That. Adyashanti (Stephen Gray) --- From Consciousness -- What Always Is? Most people fret about losing this state or that state. They get caught up in what's not present anymore. That which comes and goes is not real; quit chasing it. It doesn't matter. What haven't you lost? That is what's important. What always is? What is there in bliss and in misery? Who you are is always present and is always the same. That which doesn't come and go is real. That is where Freedom is found -- nowhere else. Adyashanti (Stephen Gray) on 12/28/05 3:08 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can this guy have experiences of realization and not be the least bit aware of his addiction to being a dishonest, pompous, self-important asshole? Because he is having 'experiences of realization', plural. Realization is not something that comes and goes. All the other stuff is sign posts pointing the way to it. Realization, when the experience comes, stays. For the period it stays. :-) If it's stayed a while for you, maybe it will continue to do so. Then again, maybe it will be gone tomorrow and you'll feel like a consummate ass for claiming to know how the universe works, eh? :-) There is no sometimes its there and sometimes its not. It is the culmination of a process of culturing the nervous system to be able to exist in any state and continue to have the experience of Realization, simultaneously (just like everyone says...). Well, that's a nice theory. Me, I don't believe that the state of one's nervous system has anything whatsover to do with realization. Nothing in the state of the nervous system can prevent realization, and nothing in it can 'cause' realization. Reali- zation just is. Sometimes it is clearly, sometimes it's not. :-) So, if we are just having periods of lucidity, alternating with periods of mud, we are not Realized, and can still be enslaved to our small e ego. Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... No claims here. No claim checks needed either ;). Just writing about experience. What else is there? The difference seems to be that you're convinced that all experiences of enlightenment are somehow the same. All experiences of enlightenment are different, unique. I have said that several times here. Is there a component of enlightenment that is non-changing, everlasting, for everyone who has the genuine experience? Absolutely. Does everyone experience that non-changing everlasting essense of enlightenment the same way? How would I know? That is none of my business. without trying to speak for anyone else. You might give it a try sometime... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Cool. If you're claiming to be Realized, that can be your definition of what you're claiming to be, eh? I'm not claiming to be anything... No claims here. No claim checks needed either ;). Just writing about experience. What else is there? The difference seems to be that you're convinced that all experiences of enlightenment are somehow the same. All experiences of enlightenment are different, unique. I have said that several times here. Is there a component of enlightenment that is non-changing, everlasting, for everyone who has the genuine experience? Absolutely. Does everyone experience that non-changing everlasting essense of enlightenment the same way? How would I know? That is none of my business. Thanks for clarifying. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 9:05 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's perfectly plausible that some bored ultra-rich, extremely famous, extremely eccentric, black singer might dabble in ALL of TM- associated practices without making it his religion... Who are you referring to? Michael Jackson? Yep, according to many, he practices everything found everywhere. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
You might characterize the TMO as a religion, but the techniques themselves I have a hard time seeing as religious in nature. The TMO I could see more easily characterized as a religion, or a quasi-religion or a cult. But you have to consider the level of involvement of individuals. There is such a huge range from the cultic TB through the NB to the, again, cultic NTB. --- Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is not a religion? PUH-lease! TM claims it is not a religion, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. TM is nothing more then westernized, fundamentalist Hindusim. Nothing wrong with that, but TM's denials only go so far. How else does one explain Rajas, yagnas, God-consciousness, celebrations to saints, and all the other trappings that now typify the TMO. It's a religion and the TB's are part of the congregation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, InterFaith Charities Secretariat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Season's Greetings May the New Year brings you and your loved ones Health, Wealth Prosperity. Click here to view the full card on Net or paste the following link in your browser http://www.interfaithcharities.org/gc/200512.php From: Bir Grewall, family staff - Sponsored By : Financial Advisors of America Inc. www.faoai.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] please note: TM is not a religion and I personally am against religion. OffWorld Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Peter wrote: You might characterize the TMO as a religion, but the techniques themselves I have a hard time seeing as religious in nature. I, too, have a hard time seeing the techniques as religious. But there's been talk in this forum of the mantras being devas that the teacher charges with shakti before giving to the meditator. So here we have a funny situation. I've been using my mantra for 31 years, during which time I've received no hint that it is anything other than a meaningless sound. Yet people in the know tell me it is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). Now, how do I convince someone that TM is not somehow religious? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Peter wrote: You might characterize the TMO as a religion, but the techniques themselves I have a hard time seeing as religious in nature. I, too, have a hard time seeing the techniques as religious. But there's been talk in this forum of the mantras being devas that the teacher charges with shakti before giving to the meditator. So here we have a funny situation. I've been using my mantra for 31 years, during which time I've received no hint that it is anything other than a meaningless sound. Yet people in the know tell me it is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). Now, how do I convince someone that TM is not somehow religious? People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Peter wrote: You might characterize the TMO as a religion, but the techniques themselves I have a hard time seeing as religious in nature. I, too, have a hard time seeing the techniques as religious. But there's been talk in this forum of the mantras being devas that the teacher charges with shakti before giving to the meditator. So here we have a funny situation. I've been using my mantra for 31 years, during which time I've received no hint that it is anything other than a meaningless sound. Yet people in the know tell me it is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). Now, how do I convince someone that TM is not somehow religious? But what is a religion? I certainly see how someone would call the practice of TM religious because the bija mantras are associated with certain Hindu dieties, but does that make it a religion? Ask a hindu if TM is a religion and he'll think the very question is absurd. Is TM a Hindu practice? I don't know, I'm not Hindu! TM is a door into the mystery of pure Being. There are lots of doors. People get all hung-up on the shape and color of the door. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Peter wrote: But what is a religion? I certainly see how someone would call the practice of TM religious because the bija mantras are associated with certain Hindu dieties, but does that make it a religion? Ask a hindu if TM is a religion and he'll think the very question is absurd. Is TM a Hindu practice? I don't know, I'm not Hindu! TM is a door into the mystery of pure Being. There are lots of doors. People get all hung-up on the shape and color of the door. This response will satisfy many open-minded people, but it's inadequate for the shaping of public policy. Laws and popular opinion are more blunt, less nuanced. So when we say TM is not religious, we have to say it as we'd say abortion is not murder or the Bible is full of nonsense, recognizing that many will agree with us, but many will condemn us for being so wrong. Of course, as my time in newsgroups has demonstrated, there's nothing one can say that won't generate opposition, so opposition in itself means little, doesn't it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- authfriend wrote: Gillam wrote: Yet people in the know tell me [the mantra] is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. Maybe there are people reading this who consider the TM mantras to be ishta devas and would be willing to cite the basis for their understanding. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: Gillam wrote: Yet people in the know tell me [the mantra] is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. Maybe there are people reading this who consider the TM mantras to be ishta devas and would be willing to cite the basis for their understanding. According to the Sri Tantra (i think its that one) the bija mantras used in TM are the seed form of specific devatas(Saraswati and Lakshmi). The effect of the mantra, according to MMY, would be two-fold. The enlivening of that specific value of nature in one's life through mantra and transcendance into valueless Atman. But does this make TM a religion? I don't think so. Quasi-religious? Perhaps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Peter wrote: But what is a religion? I certainly see how someone would call the practice of TM religious because the bija mantras are associated with certain Hindu dieties, but does that make it a religion? Ask a hindu if TM is a religion and he'll think the very question is absurd. Is TM a Hindu practice? I don't know, I'm not Hindu! TM is a door into the mystery of pure Being. There are lots of doors. People get all hung-up on the shape and color of the door. This response will satisfy many open-minded people, but it's inadequate for the shaping of public policy. Laws and popular opinion are more blunt, less nuanced. So when we say TM is not religious, we have to say it as we'd say abortion is not murder or the Bible is full of nonsense, recognizing that many will agree with us, but many will condemn us for being so wrong. Of course, as my time in newsgroups has demonstrated, there's nothing one can say that won't generate opposition, so opposition in itself means little, doesn't it? The general public (whomever they are!) seem to like simple answers with black and white distinctions. Unfortunately life is not like that. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 9:44 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: Gillam wrote: Yet people in the know tell me [the mantra] is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. Maybe there are people reading this who consider the TM mantras to be ishta devas and would be willing to cite the basis for their understanding. If you Google bija mantras you get tons of results. Here's the first one: http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/bija_mantra.php Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Peter wrote: According to the Sri Tantra (i think its that one) the bija mantras used in TM are the seed form of specific devatas(Saraswati and Lakshmi). The effect of the mantra, according to MMY, would be two-fold. The enlivening of that specific value of nature in one's life through mantra and transcendance into valueless Atman. But does this make TM a religion? I don't think so. Quasi-religious? Perhaps. If someone could measure and replicate the effects of the mantras, that would go a long way to removing them from the religious realm. That's why I'm disappointed that Maharishi abandoned his interest in science, and that true believers never embraced a truly disinterested approach to research. Irony of the day: The quasi-religious nature of the TM organization, in its zeal to prove TM scientific, doomed the techniques to quasi-religious status. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
Patrick Gillam wrote: I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. From what I've read, Mr. Gillam, almost all the TM bija mantras are derived from the path of Sri Vidya, a tantric tradition in South India, that was established by Shankaracharaya. Swami Brahmananda Saraswati's guru was Swami Krishnanand Saraswati who hailed from Sringeri, the Sri Vidya sect headquarters for all Saraswati Dasanamis. Apparently Shankaracharya installed a Sri Yantra at Sringeri, with the TM mantras inscribed thereon. At least two TM bija mantras are included in the sixteen syllable mantra of the Saundaryalahari which was composed by Shankaracharya for our understanding. Newsgroups: Yahoo! FairfieldLife From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya Date: Mon Sep 5, 2005 11:30 pm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/71161 Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental From: Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The TMer Tradition Date: Sat, Oct 22 2005 9:13 am http://tinyurl.com/cp4qq Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: Gillam wrote: Yet people in the know tell me [the mantra] is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). People in *what* know? People with knowledge of what? I can't cite posts, but I seem to recall that people who've seen lists of ishta devas have seen the TM mantras on the list. Maybe there are people reading this who consider the TM mantras to be ishta devas and would be willing to cite the basis for their understanding. I had in mind more in the know as to what devas are, actually. MMY talks about them on various levels, from concrete (personal deities) to abstract (laws of nature, processes of knowing). The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Peter wrote: But what is a religion? I certainly see how someone would call the practice of TM religious because the bija mantras are associated with certain Hindu dieties, but does that make it a religion? Ask a hindu if TM is a religion and he'll think the very question is absurd. Is TM a Hindu practice? I don't know, I'm not Hindu! TM is a door into the mystery of pure Being. There are lots of doors. People get all hung-up on the shape and color of the door. This response will satisfy many open-minded people, but it's inadequate for the shaping of public policy. Laws and popular opinion are more blunt, less nuanced. So when we say TM is not religious, we have to say it as we'd say abortion is not murder or the Bible is full of nonsense, recognizing that many will agree with us, but many will condemn us for being so wrong. Of course, as my time in newsgroups has demonstrated, there's nothing one can say that won't generate opposition, so opposition in itself means little, doesn't it? The general public (whomever they are!) seem to like simple answers with black and white distinctions. Unfortunately life is not like that. *Especially* in this case. In my experience, if a person is reasonably open- minded and is willing to sit still for a fairly complex explanation, they'll accept that TM (both practice and teaching) is not inherently religious in any sectarian sense. You can always expand your definition of religion to include spirituality generally; but you can also expand your definition of spirituality to include all of human experience. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The general public (whomever they are!) seem to like simple answers with black and white distinctions. Unfortunately life is not like that. Last year I read in one of David Brooks' columns in the New York Times that the electorate breaks into two camps: those who work with numbers -- accountants, business managers, engineers -- and those who work with words -- lawyers, teachers, journalists, social workers. The numerate types tend toward Republican politics and the literate types tend toward Democratic politics. Brooks defined the difference as between those who like the hard edges of sure knowledge and those who are comfortable with ambiguity and nuance. Brooks based his observations on some research someone had done, so it's not just surmise. Since reading that, I've seen it a lot in the public dialogue. There are those who espouse hard and fast ideologies, and those who seem to be able to live with not knowing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. I had a similar experience. I saw my mantra as a man sitting in the lotus position and his hands were doing mudras which changed with every different syllable of my mantra. What struck me with the experience -- and I only had it once, mind you, in 32 years of TM -- was how mechanical it was: it was as if this personification was my servant and had no choice but to do my bidding; that is, his positioning (of the mudras he was doing) were totally and entirely dependent upon MY uttering of the mantra. Cause and effect. Command you me. It reminded me somewhat of another experience I had about 20 years earlier. Perhaps this experience was of a chakra...I don't know. Anyway, the experience was during meditation and of seeing petals of a flower(located somewhere in my middle chest) being opened up, one after the other. And when one petal was unfurled, the stem would rotate to the next petal and then that one would unfurl. Again, what struck me with the experience and what made it similar to the first one was how mechanical it all seemed. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Wow. Then that kinda confirms my experience which I related in another post... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 1:31 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Wow. Then that kinda confirms my experience which I related in another post... He also said that eventually your mantra goes on perpetually, whether or not you're meditating. Reminds me of something Irmeli described. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 1:31 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Wow. Then that kinda confirms my experience which I related in another post... He also said that eventually your mantra goes on perpetually, whether or not you're meditating. Reminds me of something Irmeli described. Began to notice that on TTC in 1976. Tried to ask about it. Course leaders didn't have a clue. Later I heard Charlie Lutes talk about it. Ramana Maharishi mentions it and quotes Namadev about it. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:23 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He also said that eventually your mantra goes on perpetually, whether or not you're meditating. Reminds me of something Irmeli described. Began to notice that on TTC in 1976. Tried to ask about it. Course leaders didn't have a clue. Later I heard Charlie Lutes talk about it. Ramana Maharishi mentions it and quotes Namadev about it. You might want to call Irmeli's attention to this post. I think you'll find her description interesting. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Peter wrote: You might characterize the TMO as a religion, but the techniques themselves I have a hard time seeing as religious in nature. I, too, have a hard time seeing the techniques as religious. But there's been talk in this forum of the mantras being devas that the teacher charges with shakti before giving to the meditator. So here we have a funny situation. I've been using my mantra for 31 years, during which time I've received no hint that it is anything other than a meaningless sound. Yet people in the know tell me it is an ishta-deva -- the god one prays most (Wikipedia). Now, how do I convince someone that TM is not somehow religious? ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. You can rephrase as you please, but you are well aware that the correct practice of TM does not involve assigning a meaning to the mantra during meditation. Therefore the assignment of meaning is a personal preference which has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:38 PM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:42 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. You can rephrase as you please, but you are well aware that the correct practice of TM does not involve assigning a meaning to the mantra during meditation. Therefore the assignment of meaning is a personal preference which has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM. Understood and agreed. See my next post. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:38 PM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. Excellent metaphor/analogy Rick! Did you make that up? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:38 PM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. I agree with this. And this alignment is the path into the absolute. But as Bob noted before, this alignment occurs without any intention on our part. It's effortless if practiced properly. TM is going for nirguna Brahman. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? ...that IS what a personified being is: one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. OK, but I wanted to emphasize that the correct practice of TM _requires_ that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice, for Hindu practitioners or non-Hindus. People opposed to TM are always pushing the canard that the mantras assigned to people learning TM make TM a religious (Hindu) practice, and it is not. Assignment of meaning to the mantra is an option outside the practice of TM for those of the Hindu persuasion, but if one were to focus on meaning, any meaning, during TM, one would not be practicing TM. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Is there any way to tell whether TM's influence results from the mantra's vibe or from the experience of pure consciousness, which is what happens when the mantra fades away? The old TM explanation always made sense to me -- that the mantra is a sound that tends to go away, leaving one's awareness without an object; leaving it aware of awareness itself. This notion that TM's benefits come from the sound's vibration, or from an entity associated with that sound, seems primitive. Inelegant. Sub-Occam. But as I ask above, who can tell? We have lots of people here who've used TM mantras at some length. I'd love to read people's experiences in terms of what each of us has observed firsthand in all these decades of using our mantras. Get this discussion out of the realm of theory and into our direct experiences. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 3:04 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. Excellent metaphor/analogy Rick! Did you make that up? No, my Devata did. Hmmm. cosmic cheating! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Is there any way to tell whether TM's influence results from the mantra's vibe or from the experience of pure consciousness, which is what happens when the mantra fades away? The old TM explanation always made sense to me -- that the mantra is a sound that tends to go away, leaving one's awareness without an object; leaving it aware of awareness itself. This notion that TM's benefits come from the sound's vibration, or from an entity associated with that sound, seems primitive. Inelegant. Sub-Occam. But as I ask above, who can tell? We have lots of people here who've used TM mantras at some length. I'd love to read people's experiences in terms of what each of us has observed firsthand in all these decades of using our mantras. Get this discussion out of the realm of theory and into our direct experiences. TM mantras, at least the one I use, produces very thick, deep bliss for the mind. Vipassana meditation or Atma-vichara does not produce bliss. These produce extreme mental clarity. TM also produces this mental clarity, but there is also the bliss component Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:38 PM, Rick Archer at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:30 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Because the correct use of the mantra in TM requires that no meaning be assigned to the mantra during the practice of TM -- what meanings people want to assign or not assign outside of meditation has nothing to do with TM. Because Irishmen think a certain way about the color green does not mean that anybody else has to think the same way -- if Hindus want to see those meaningless sounds in TM as being associated with some being, who cares? I'd rephrase this: whether or not you believe or perceive that your mantra is associated with some being, if it is, it is. And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. I'd say the vibratory influence is the most profound level, not the most superficial level. What is an impulse of creative intelligence if not a vibration? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 3:55 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Is there any way to tell whether TM's influence results from the mantra's vibe or from the experience of pure consciousness, which is what happens when the mantra fades away? The old TM explanation always made sense to me -- that the mantra is a sound that tends to go away, leaving one's awareness without an object; leaving it aware of awareness itself. This notion that TM's benefits come from the sound's vibration, or from an entity associated with that sound, seems primitive. Actually, Maharishi always said, and we said in lectures, that you could transcend on any sound but that the mantras, due to their life-supporting vibratory quality, provided benefits that other sounds didn't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:44 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: The more abstract the understanding of the nature of devas, the less religious they seem. Sort of like Christ the divine/human center of the Christian religion, versus the universal Christ as a mode of consciousness. I've been trying to remember if I've ever heard anyone say or write, My mantra came to visit me in a tangible form, and I saw it to be a god. Nothing comes to mind. That leaves the abstract understanding, which indeed has no religious feelings for me. Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? ...that IS what a personified being is: one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp. That's what I think too. I'm asking whether the personified being exists independently of that translation; I don't believe it does. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. So how does that answer the question I asked? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 4:25 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. So how does that answer the question I asked? I guess it doesn't, except that these people say these beings are as real as you or I. But I guess we're concretized abstractions too. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:51 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. ** You are expressing a belief that has nothing to do with the correct practice of TM -- during the practice of TM, the mantra is used as a meaningless sound. I understand that Bob. I'm just saying that I believe that this is what's really going on. A physicist who understands how gravity works and another man who doesn't are both influenced equally by gravity. Their understanding or lack of it doesn't alter the laws of gravity. Excellent metaphor/analogy Rick! Did you make that up? It may even be a better analogy than Rick realizes. *Nobody* really understands how gravity works. I'll show you how it works, Judy. Go to your fridge and take out an egg. Throw it with as much force as you can at your feet. If it makes a mess, that's gravity. If it doesn't, that's not gravity. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: And although on some superficial level it may be true that the vibratory influence of the mantra causes TM to work, ultimately, the benefits result from aligning oneself with the impulse of intelligence or Devata that the mantra represents. Is there any way to tell whether TM's influence results from the mantra's vibe or from the experience of pure consciousness, which is what happens when the mantra fades away? The old TM explanation always made sense to me -- that the mantra is a sound that tends to go away, leaving one's awareness without an object; leaving it aware of awareness itself. This notion that TM's benefits come from the sound's vibration, or from an entity associated with that sound, seems primitive. Inelegant. Sub-Occam. But as I ask above, who can tell? Another of MMY's descriptions is that TM is like diving--you take the correct angle and then let go. The mantra, presumably, is the angle in this metaphor. But can you extend the metaphor to say that different mantras take different angles, and that different angles are correct for different people? If so, what would an angle be that varies from mantra to mantra, but the different vibrations of those mantras? We have lots of people here who've used TM mantras at some length. I'd love to read people's experiences in terms of what each of us has observed firsthand in all these decades of using our mantras. Get this discussion out of the realm of theory and into our direct experiences. My experience for some time has been that the mantra is no longer a sound I can hear with my inner ear but rather, in some sense, a direction. That may mean just that my inner ear isn't sufficiently subtle to hear the mantra at that level, but I'm inclined to link what seems to me to have the quality of a direction with MMY's correct angle metaphor. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 2:05 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Although on a Rishikesh TTC, Maharishi did say that you eventually do perceive the deity associated with your mantra. Sure. But is it an actual personified being, or is it how one's own perception translates the abstraction into something it can grasp? I have friends who claim to see and even converse with the personified beings. This subtle, celestial stuff is absolutely, incredibly, charming, fascinating, mind-blowing when it opens-up, but it really has nothing to do with Realization. Like the TM-siddhis, the value is in the practice of samayama, not in the attainment of a particular siddhi itself. That really doesn't mean anything in the context of Realization. Talking to the diety of your mantra is like talking to the bus driver who's taking you someplace. Fascinating guy, but nothing to do with your destination. Yep. I had a few of those celestial experiences, and surmised at the time that, after realizing existence for what it is, i.e Realization, I'd have lots more celestial experiences, and Gee Whiz! Instead I have lost most of my interest in such things, for one because 'ordinary' life has itself become so fascinating and multi- dimensional, and also because the celestial experiences are just a matter of focus in that direction, and so they blend in when necessary vs me seeking them out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- Rick Archer wrote: Maharishi always said, and we said in lectures, that you could transcend on any sound but that the mantras, due to their life-supporting vibratory quality, provided benefits that other sounds didn't. This dovetails nicely with Peter's post about his TM mantra generating bliss. So Rick, you're doing an Amma meditation these days, right? And you've used other sounds in meditation-like roles, such as for the sidhis, or maybe a bliss technique or something. In your experience, did your TM mantra provide benefits other sounds haven't? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/27/05 5:54 PM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer wrote: Maharishi always said, and we said in lectures, that you could transcend on any sound but that the mantras, due to their life-supporting vibratory quality, provided benefits that other sounds didn't. This dovetails nicely with Peter's post about his TM mantra generating bliss. So Rick, you're doing an Amma meditation these days, right? And you've used other sounds in meditation-like roles, such as for the sidhis, or maybe a bliss technique or something. In your experience, did your TM mantra provide benefits other sounds haven't? I'm using Amma's mantra TM-style. Experiences are better than ever, but I can't say why for sure. Many influences. Didn't have bliss technique. Other techniques (i.e., sidhis) didn't involve anything for its sound value. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
TM is not a religion? PUH-lease! TM claims it is not a religion, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. TM is nothing more then westernized, fundamentalist Hindusim. Nothing wrong with that, but TM's denials only go so far. How else does one explain Rajas, yagnas, God-consciousness, celebrations to saints, and all the other trappings that now typify the TMO. It's a religion and the TB's are part of the congregation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, InterFaith Charities Secretariat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Season's Greetings May the New Year brings you and your loved ones Health, Wealth Prosperity. Click here to view the full card on Net or paste the following link in your browser http://www.interfaithcharities.org/gc/200512.php From: Bir Grewall, family staff - Sponsored By : Financial Advisors of America Inc. www.faoai.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] please note: TM is not a religion and I personally am against religion. OffWorld Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
TM is not a religion? PUH-lease! TM claims it is not a religion, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. TM is nothing more then westernized, fundamentalist Hindusim. Nothing wrong with that, but TM's denials only go so far. How else does one explain Rajas, yagnas, God-consciousness, celebrations to saints, and all the other trappings that now typify the TMO. It's a religion and the TB's are part of the congregation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, InterFaith Charities Secretariat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Season's Greetings May the New Year brings you and your loved ones Health, Wealth Prosperity. Click here to view the full card on Net or paste the following link in your browser http://www.interfaithcharities.org/gc/200512.php From: Bir Grewall, family staff - Sponsored By : Financial Advisors of America Inc. www.faoai.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] please note: TM is not a religion and I personally am against religion. OffWorld Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is not a religion? PUH-lease! TM claims it is not a religion, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. TM is nothing more then westernized, fundamentalist Hindusim. Nothing wrong with that, but TM's denials only go so far. How else does one explain Rajas, yagnas, God-consciousness, celebrations to saints, and all the other trappings that now typify the TMO. It's a religion and the TB's are part of the congregation. TM is a technique. You can accept the theory that purports to explain it or not. You can accept the auxiliary practices or not. Can you make the various practices + theory your religion? Of course, but that is NOT the same as TM itself (or any isolated subset of associated practices divorced from theory) being a religion. It's perfectly plausible that some bored ultra-rich, extremely famous, extremely eccentric, black singer might dabble in ALL of TM- associated practices without making it his religion... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
on 12/26/05 9:05 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's perfectly plausible that some bored ultra-rich, extremely famous, extremely eccentric, black singer might dabble in ALL of TM- associated practices without making it his religion... Who are you referring to? Michael Jackson? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Season's Greetings from Interfaith Charities International
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, InterFaith Charities Secretariat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Season's Greetings May the New Year brings you and your loved ones Health, Wealth Prosperity. Click here to view the full card on Net or paste the following link in your browser http://www.interfaithcharities.org/gc/200512.php From: Bir Grewall, family staff - Sponsored By : Financial Advisors of America Inc. www.faoai.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] please note: TM is not a religion and I personally am against religion. OffWorld Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
