[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-15 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Otherwise its a really absurd idea, with the sort of populistic appeal, the same as that we are all co-creators. It just makes some people feel more important. +++ Haven't you observed that you do some creating

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-15 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: Otherwise its a really absurd idea, with the sort of populistic appeal, the same as that we are all co-creators. It just makes

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-14 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I think there is a big confusion of what evolution actually means. Here some biological definitions: Evolution: The long-term process

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-14 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: I think there is a big confusion of what evolution

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread claudiouk
The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is interpersonal. Try being detatched whilst your loved ones are being tortured... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is interpersonal. Try being detatched whilst your loved ones are being

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is interpersonal. Try being detatched whilst your loved ones are being

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One emotion there is however that I don't easily experience and that is getting hurt of something someone says to me. Often I may not even observe the insult, or if I observe I may react by getting furious and

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: One emotion there is however that I don't easily experience and that is getting hurt of something someone says to me. Often I may

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can indeed become detached from internal desire or aversion) - it is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they don't believe in one. To say life is suffering implies there is

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In the Buddhist view, the richest, most successful person in the world, living in a perfectly-aligned S-V house but still attached to his desires, will be lost in suffering. Whereas the poor person who

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip The person who is convinced that there is something that 'prevents' their

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But then, if you did understand, you wouldn't have the opportunity to express scorn and contempt for those who haven't yet achieved the realization, and that's much more important to you than intellectual honesty.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip In the Buddhist view, the richest, most successful person in the world, living in a perfectly-aligned S-V house but still attached to his

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, claudiouk claudiouk@ wrote: The really problematic dimension of suffering is not personal (if one can

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But then, if you did understand, you wouldn't have the opportunity to express scorn and contempt for those who haven't yet achieved the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But then, if you did understand, you wouldn't have the opportunity to express

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip In the Buddhist view, the richest, most successful person in the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But then, if you did understand, you wouldn't have the opportunity to express

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip But then,

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What, me whine? LOL. Now you've done it. Now I've got an image running through my mind of Mad magazine's Alfred E. Newman with a pair of glasses on his nose, searching for them everywhere while whining about them being

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: What, me whine? LOL. Now you've done it. Now I've got an image running through my mind of Mad magazine's Alfred E. Newman with a pair of glasses

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-13 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think there is a big confusion of what evolution actually means. Here some biological definitions: Evolution: The long-term process through which a population of organisms accumulates genetic changes that

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to argue, but you seem to have missed this section: Maharishi's commentary says: By 'homage' is meant submission or surrender. Sure, I saw it later, but he was of course quoting MMY. Not setting the stage

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Not to argue, but you seem to have missed this section: Maharishi's commentary says: By 'homage' is meant submission or

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SELF-DOUBT AND CYNICISM VS. PROFOUND TRUST From a Talk by Adyashanti There is nothing more insidiously destructive to the attainment of liberation than self-doubt and cynicism. Doubt is a movement of the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [That trust is also often called homage, or even devotion or surrender - and the path that encompasses this openness of heart is called bhakti. Once Self-realization is ripening, this open- ness of heart in

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My dictionary translates homage to mean respect, reverence, and not surrender. And I understand the quotation in a way that also the teacher should show homage to the student, give his advice after repeated

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Alex Stanley
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Not to argue, but you seem to have missed this section:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them. Question on this one point: By what standard can it be said that God makes mistakes? Yahoo! Groups

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Vaj
On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:29 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them. Question on this one point: By what standard can it be said that God makes

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:29 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them. Question on this one point: By what standard can

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: Is BDSM on operating system? (Like FreeBSD) In a way...it

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Vaj
On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It is just the observation that evolving in nature happens through errors and in animals also by avoiding the mistakes and as even in a more advanced form humans can sometimes also learn from mistakes. I consider the manifest creation to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Vaj
On Mar 12, 2006, at 5:45 AM, defenders_of_bhakti wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not to argue, but you seem to have missed this section:  Maharishi's commentary says:     "By 'homage' is meant submission or surrender."Sure, I saw it later, but he

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It is just the observation that evolving in nature happens through errors and in animals also by avoiding the mistakes and as even in a more advanced form humans can

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's rhetorical, Def. :) Sal Thanks. Being native german, I did a 'literal' translation. On Mar 11, 2006, at 6:49 PM, defenders_of_bhakti wrote: Well, we all know rethoric questions, don't we? (This was a

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them. Question on this one point: By what standard can

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns through and from them. Question on this one point: By what standard can

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It is just the observation that evolving in nature happens through errors and in animals also by

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Mar 12, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It is just the observation that

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they don't

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: ---

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Sal Sunshine
Maybe the ultimate is like Avis--We Try Harder. Sal On Mar 12, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Nelson wrote: > If what we're calling God is not the ultimate, what is? > +++Whatever you are seeking, possibly the same.     Maybe the ultimate is upgraded from time to time-infinity plus one you know.  

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and learns

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip Although I think that also God makes mistakes and

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: ---

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Marek Reavis
Thanks for the heads-up on Cantor. The website on the Hotel Infinity is good stuff. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote:

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they don't believe in one. To say life is suffering implies there is something-- a

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I still believe that it owes a lot to Buddhism... That's a stretch. Many translations of the First Noble Truth have it as Life is suffering, but that's not related in any way to God, since they

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-12 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the heads-up on Cantor. The website on the Hotel Infinity is good stuff. ** Wikipedia seems to have an awful lot on the subject. It's quite fun to contemplate deities whose hierachy is like the Power

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-11 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many spiritual seekers have no idea how cynical and doubt-laden they actually are. It is this blindness and denial of the presence of doubt and cynicism that makes the birth of a profound trust impossible - a

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-11 Thread defenders_of_bhakti
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all know from everyday experience that questions (curiosity) generally can have two very distinct purposes, even in mundane conversation: 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-11 Thread Sal Sunshine
It's rhetorical, Def. :) Sal On Mar 11, 2006, at 6:49 PM, defenders_of_bhakti wrote: Well, we all know rethoric questions, don't we? (This was a rethoric question).

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-11 Thread Marek Reavis
Patrick, thanks for this, couldn't agree more. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's commentary says: This acceptance of the teacher is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo

2006-03-11 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: His definition of the first (good) type of question seems to be that they have to be based on total and complete surrender and