[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-06 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 snip
   Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.
  
  +++ Shirley is a jester ?
 
 Whassamatta, you don't think women have a sensayooma?


Is that what they're calling it these days?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-06 Thread cardemaister
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
 willytex@ wrote:
 
  bob_brigante wrote:
Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life 
celibate, 
or so I understood.
   
  You are mistaken, Bob - according to the Cologne Digital Sanskrit
  Lexicon, the Sanskrit term 'bal' is an interjection imitating the
  sound of a falling body, as in 'falling at the feet of the 
master'.
  Many Sanskrit terms are derived from common household sounds. For
  example, the bija mantra 'phat', heard at every puja, is derived 
from
  the crack-sound made by a two-stroked wheeled vehicle, the motor
  rickshaw, found all over downtown Delhi.

LÅL!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-06 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 snip
   Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.
  
  +++ Shirley is a jester ?
 
 Whassamatta, you don't think women have a sensayooma?

+++ Looks like some are good with phrenetic spelling.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-06 Thread anon_astute_ff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 sparaig wrote:
  You're being rather vague here Judy. 
 
 Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess.
 
  Was this intentional...?
 
 Well, I think it was her intention to try and hijack the thread - just
 another excuse to open her big pie hole and spout off like a
 know-it-all. Anybody can see that Judy hasn't added one thing to the
 current thread. Obviously Judy's not an insider with any new
 information. Go figure.

What makes you think you are any different?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-06 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
willytex@ wrote:
 
  sparaig wrote:
   You're being rather vague here Judy. 
  
  Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, 
I guess.
  
   Was this intentional...?
  
  Well, I think it was her intention to try and hijack the thread -
 just
  another excuse to open her big pie hole and spout off like a
  know-it-all. Anybody can see that Judy hasn't added one thing to 
the
  current thread. Obviously Judy's not an insider with any new
  information. Go figure.
 
 What makes you think you are any different?


I'd love to know the etymology of pie hole.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
wayback71 wrote:
 Richard, what is your point and could you just say it clearly? 

wayback71 - The Marshy doesn't need anymore people to sign up for TM
training - he just needs to have the current teams of meditators sit
in large groups to achieve the Maharishi effect, like we do at in the
Superradience Dome at Radience. He doesn't need the apostates who went
over to the Rama Lentz, the Sri Sri, the Prakash, or that older woman
named Ma. So Marshy said to Girish Varma, his uncle, Who needs them?
Nandikishore told me this because I've been an insider since wayback65.

According to Steve Perino, not a single temple in all India uses bija
mantras, like the ones used in TM, in their spiritual practice. Perino
also stated that Shankaracharya didn't teach adwaita, but that's
another thread. However, several years ago I discovered that in fact,
the headquarters math of Guru Dev was at Sringeri, which is a noted
seat of the Sri Vidya sect which practices a meditation similar to TM
and that uses thirteen bija mantras contained in the Saundaryalahari,
composed by the Shankaracharaya, which contains at least three TM bija
mantras.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
Vaj wrote:
 Which matha are you particularly referring to?

The matha at Sringeri, the headquarters of the Saraswati sampradaya,
the Dasanami sect founded by the Shakaracharya. Sringeri was the
headquarters matha of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, whose teacher was
Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Sringeri.

 The mantrayana is not simply located at a particular monastery 
 or math, in fact it is much more widespread.

So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
Brahmanand's headqurter matha at Sringeri, practice a meditation
similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija mantras is widespread. 

 If they are real practitioners of the mantrayana why would 
 they be worried about any temple other than that of their 
 own bodies and those they loved?

Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not available to
non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know much about the bija
mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy was taught them by his master,
Swami Brahmanand Saraswati over the course of thirteen years in the
Himalayas. This has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you read
books?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:

 Vaj wrote:
  Which matha are you particularly referring to?
 
 The matha at Sringeri, the headquarters of the Saraswati sampradaya,
 the Dasanami sect founded by the Shakaracharya. Sringeri was the
 headquarters matha of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, whose teacher was
 Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Sringeri.

  The mantrayana is not simply located at a particular monastery
  or math, in fact it is much more widespread.
 
 So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
 Brahmanand's headqurter matha at Sringeri, practice a meditation
 similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija mantras is widespread.

It's very ubiquitous. Sri Vidya is not the only source of bija mantras.


  If they are real practitioners of the mantrayana why would
  they be worried about any temple other than that of their
  own bodies and those they loved?
 
 Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not available to
 non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know much about the bija
 mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy was taught them by his master,
 Swami Brahmanand Saraswati over the course of thirteen years in the
 Himalayas. This has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you read
 books?

It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out  
that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami  
Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most closely  
resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
 
  Vaj wrote:
   Which matha are you particularly referring to?
  
  The matha at Sringeri, the headquarters of the Saraswati 
sampradaya,
  the Dasanami sect founded by the Shakaracharya. Sringeri was the
  headquarters matha of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, whose teacher 
was
  Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Sringeri.
 
   The mantrayana is not simply located at a particular monastery
   or math, in fact it is much more widespread.
  
  So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
  Brahmanand's headqurter matha at Sringeri, practice a meditation
  similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija mantras is 
widespread.
 
 It's very ubiquitous. Sri Vidya is not the only source of bija 
mantras.
 
 
   If they are real practitioners of the mantrayana why would
   they be worried about any temple other than that of their
   own bodies and those they loved?
  
  Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not 
available to
  non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know much about the bija
  mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy was taught them by his 
master,
  Swami Brahmanand Saraswati over the course of thirteen years in 
the
  Himalayas. This has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you 
read
  books?
 
 It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out  
 that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami  
 Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most 
closely  
 resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.



M, so you're saying that the fact that MMY produced a 
controvesial will didn't make the connection for you?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
Vaj wrote:
 It's very ubiquitous.

So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
Brahmanand's headquarters matha at Sringeri, practice a meditation
similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija mantras is widespread.

 Sri Vidya is not the only source of bija mantras.

So, you don't agree with Mr. Perino that there are no temples in all
of India that practice a meditation technique similar to TM and use TM
bija mantras. Mr. Perino, who is obviously not a pundit, seems to be
unaware of the fact that Shankaracharya practiced a meditation
technique similar to TM and used TM bija mantras in his sadhana and
cited them when he composed the Saundaryalari.

  Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not
  available to non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know 
  much about the bija mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy 
  was taught them by his master, Swami Brahmanand Saraswati 
  over the course of thirteen years in the Himalayas. This 
  has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you read books?
 
 It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out  
 that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami  
 Brahmananda.

It's common knowledge all over India that the Swami Rama was a big
liar - he was never appointed to be a Shankaracharya. And Mahesh has
never been a suspect in any murder case in India - if he was, we could
all read about it in the Indian press, could we not? Newspapers over
there don't seem to be averse to publishing the 'low down' about such
incidents. In fact, it hasn't even been established that anyone was
murdered, if you are referring to Swami Brahmanand, who died of
natural causes.

 Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most closely  
 resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.

Swami Rama's meditation teaching IS the TM technique, just like
Yogananda, Muktananda, and countless other meditation teachers in the
dhyana yoga tradition. There's only one transcendental absolute, Vaj.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread wayback71
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 wayback71 wrote:
  Richard, what is your point and could you just say it clearly? 
 
 wayback71 - The Marshy doesn't need anymore people to sign up for TM
 training - he just needs to have the current teams of meditators sit
 in large groups to achieve the Maharishi effect, like we do at in the
 Superradience Dome at Radience. He doesn't need the apostates who went
 over to the Rama Lentz, the Sri Sri, the Prakash, or that older woman
 named Ma. So Marshy said to Girish Varma, his uncle, Who needs them?
 Nandikishore told me this because I've been an insider since wayback65.
 
 According to Steve Perino, not a single temple in all India uses bija
 mantras, like the ones used in TM, in their spiritual practice. Perino
 also stated that Shankaracharya didn't teach adwaita, but that's
 another thread. However, several years ago I discovered that in fact,
 the headquarters math of Guru Dev was at Sringeri, which is a noted
 seat of the Sri Vidya sect which practices a meditation similar to TM
 and that uses thirteen bija mantras contained in the Saundaryalahari,
 composed by the Shankaracharaya, which contains at least three TM bija
 mantras.

Thank you.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread markmeredith2002
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wayback71 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams
willytex@ wrote:
 
  wayback71 wrote:
   Richard, what is your point and could you just say it clearly? 
  
  wayback71 - The Marshy doesn't need anymore people to sign up for TM
  training - he just needs to have the current teams of meditators sit
  in large groups to achieve the Maharishi effect, like we do at in the
  Superradience Dome at Radience. He doesn't need the apostates who went
  over to the Rama Lentz, the Sri Sri, the Prakash, or that older woman
  named Ma. So Marshy said to Girish Varma, his uncle, Who needs them?
  Nandikishore told me this because I've been an insider since
wayback65.
  
  According to Steve Perino, not a single temple in all India uses bija
  mantras, like the ones used in TM, in their spiritual practice. Perino
  also stated that Shankaracharya didn't teach adwaita, but that's
  another thread. However, several years ago I discovered that in fact,
  the headquarters math of Guru Dev was at Sringeri, which is a noted
  seat of the Sri Vidya sect which practices a meditation similar to TM
  and that uses thirteen bija mantras contained in the Saundaryalahari,
  composed by the Shankaracharaya, which contains at least three TM bija
  mantras.
 
 Thank you.

Most every Indian spiritual group I've investigated uses some of the
bija mantras - not necessarily in an eye-closed effortless meditation
practice, but they seem to be very commonly known.  

As discussed here recently, early TMers report they weren't given bij
mantras, but Ram.

Speaking of Nandkisore, I'd always heard the story about how surprised
he was when MMY taught him TM - there was nothing like it taught
within their ashram.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
sparaig wrote: 
 ...so you're saying that the fact that MMY produced a 
 controvesial will didn't make the connection for you?

It's not a fact that MMY 'produced' any controversial will. In fact,
Brahmanand's will was found in a locked vault at the offices of the
Jyotirmath Foundation Trust, and was produced by their barristers, not
by MMY. And besides, it would have been MMY's job to produce the will,
since MMY was Brahmanand's secretary and the administrator of
Brahmanand's estate. At any rate, the will of Brahmanand was never
contested in a court of law in India. The current Shankaracharya,
Swami Vasudevanand Saraswati, is the sole owner of all the Jyotirmath
land, the buildings, and all it's accoutrements.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:04 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:

 Vaj wrote:
  It's very ubiquitous.
 
 So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
 Brahmanand's headquarters matha at Sringeri, practice a meditation
 similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija mantras is  
 widespread. large snip

We've discussed your misconceptions on these subjects many times  
Willie. If you haven't gotten it by now, I suspect you don't want to.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:01 AM, sparaig wrote:

  It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out
  that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami
  Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most
 closely
  resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.
 


 M, so you're saying that the fact that MMY produced a
 controvesial will didn't make the connection for you?

This was long before I knew about the will controversy. Actually this  
was back when I actually believed M. was some sort of chosen  
descendent of SBS.

It was a shock at the time.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
markmeredith wrote:
 Most every Indian spiritual group I've investigated uses some 
 of the bija mantras - not necessarily in an eye-closed effortless
 meditation practice, but they seem to be very commonly known.  
 
So, it's a common practice all over India - Mr. Perino was mistaken.

 As discussed here recently, early TMers report they weren't given 
 bij mantras, but Ram.
 
Maybe so, but I'm TM meditator #212 in the USA, according to Beaulah
Smith, and I never got a 'Ram' bija mantra. From what I've read, the
very first TM meditator in India, a certain Mr. Raya, recieved the
same bija I recieved in 1965, that would be ten years after the
founding of the SRM by Marshy. 

 Speaking of Nandkisore, I'd always heard the story about how
 surprised he was when MMY taught him TM - there was nothing 
 like it taught within their ashram.

If true, then Nandkisore obviously didn't get around very much - a
technique similar to TM was taught at Jyotirmath for years and as you
and Vaj have confiremd, the technique and the bija mantras are
ubiquitous all over India. Go figure.

The mantra you mentioned, 'ram', which isn't even a bija mantra but
the name of a deified hero, wasn't listed on Trancenet by John Knapp
nor was it mentioned by Mike Doughney on Minit Org's Website. The
mantra 'ram' isn't mentioned by Robert Kropinsky either, in his report
concerning his visit to the Shankaracharya: Further, I spoke aloud
the sixteen mantras..., (see citation below).

You may be mistaken on this - apparently 'ram' has never been used by
Marshy as a bija mantra for program. I could be wrong though.

From: John Manning
Date: Mon, Oct 22 2001 12:00 pm
Groups: alt.meditation.transcendental
Subject: To BillyG
http://tinyurl.com/fq8m5 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out  
 that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami  
 Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most closely  
 resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.

Careful, Vaj.  You're showing a bit too much of your stripes.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 markmeredith wrote:
  Most every Indian spiritual group I've investigated uses some 
  of the bija mantras - not necessarily in an eye-closed effortless
  meditation practice, but they seem to be very commonly known.  
  
 So, it's a common practice all over India - Mr. Perino was mistaken.
 
  As discussed here recently, early TMers report they weren't given 
  bij mantras, but Ram.
  
 Maybe so, but I'm TM meditator #212 in the USA, according to Beaulah
 Smith, and I never got a 'Ram' bija mantra. From what I've read, the
 very first TM meditator in India, a certain Mr. Raya, recieved the
 same bija I recieved in 1965, that would be ten years after the
 founding of the SRM by Marshy. 
 
  Speaking of Nandkisore, I'd always heard the story about how
  surprised he was when MMY taught him TM - there was nothing 
  like it taught within their ashram.
 
 If true, then Nandkisore obviously didn't get around very much - a
 technique similar to TM was taught at Jyotirmath for years and as 
you
 and Vaj have confiremd, the technique and the bija mantras are
 ubiquitous all over India. Go figure.
 
 The mantra you mentioned, 'ram',

AFAIK, that's raama, not ram.

rAma mf(%{A4})n. (prob. ` causing rest ' , and in most meanings fr. 
%{ram}) dark , dark-coloured , black (cf. %{rAtri}) AV. TA1r. (%
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a black bird , crow Ka1t2hGr2. Vishn2.) ; white (?) 
L. ; pleasing , pleasant , charming , lovely , beautiful MBh. Ka1v. 
c. ; m. a kind of deer Car. ; a horse L. ; a lover VarBr2S. ; 
pleasure , joy , delight BhP. ; N. of Varun2a. L. ; N. of various 
mythical personages (in Veda two Ra1mas are mentioned with the patr. 
Ma1rgaveya and Aupatasvini ; another RñRa1mas with the patr. 
Ja1madagnya [cf. below] is the supposed author of RV. x , 110 ; in 
later times three RñRa1mas are celebrated , viz. 1. Paras3u-ra1ma 
[q.v.] , who forms the 6th Avata1ra of Vishn2u and is sometimes 
called Ja1madagnya , as son of the sage Jamad-agni by Ren2uka1 , and 
sometimes Bha1rgava , as descended from Bhr2igu ; 2. Ra1ma-candra 
[see below] ; 3. Bala-ra1ma [q.v.] , ` the strong Ra1ma ' , also 
called Hala7yudha and regarded as elder brother of Kr2ishn2a [RTL. 
112] accord. to Jainas a Ra1ma is enumerated among the 9 white 
Balas ; and in VP. a RñRa1mas is mentioned among the 7 R2ishis of the 
8th Manv-antara) RV. c c. N. of a king of Malla-pura Cat. ; of a 
king of S3r2in3ga-vera and patron of Na1ge7s3a ib. ; of various 
authors and teachers (also with %{AcArya} , %{upA7dhyAya} , %{kavi} , 
%{cakra-vartin} , %{jyotir-vid} , %{jyau-} %{tiSaka} , %{tarka-vAg-
Iza} , %{dIkSita} , %{daiva-jJa} , %{paNDita} , %{bhaTTa} , %
{bhaTTA7cArya} , %{vAjapeyin} , %{zarman} , %{zAstrin} , %
{saMyamin} , %{sUri} c.) Cat. ;  
 
ram el. 1.A1. (Dha1tup. xx , 23) %{ramate} (Ved. also P. %{ra4mati} 
or %{ramNAti} pf. %{rarAma} MBh. ; %{reme} Br. c. ; aor. 3. pl. %
{ranta} RV. ; %{araMsIt} Ka1v. ; %{araMsta} RV. ; %{raMsiSam} SV. ; 
fut. %{rantA} Gr. ; %{raMsyati} Br. ; %{-te} ib. c. ; inf. %
{ramitum} MBh. ; %{rantum} ib. c. ; %{rantos} Br. ; ind. p. %
{ratvA4} ib. ; %{rantvA} Ka1v. ; %{-ramya} or %{-ratya} Pa1n2. 6-4 , 
38) , to stop , stay , make fast , calm , set at rest (P. ; esp. 
pres. %{ramNAti}) RV. VS. ; (P.A1.)to delight , make happy , enjoy 
carnally MBh. Hariv. S3ukas. ; (A1.) to stand still , rest , abide , 
like to stay with (loc. or dat.) RV. c. c. ; (A1. ; P. only m. c.) 
to be glad or pleased , rejoice at , delight in , be fond of (loc. 
instr. or inf.) RV. c. c. ; to play or sport , dally , have sexual 
intercourse with (instr. with or without %{samam} , %{saha} , %
{sAkam} or %{sA7rdham}) , ChUP. MBh. c. ; to couple (said of deer) 
Pa1n2. 3-1 , 26 , Va1tt. 8 Pat. (cf. Caus.) ; to play with i.e. put 
to stake (instr.) Bhat2t2.: Caus. %{rama4yati} or %{rAma4yati} (aor. %
{a4rIramat}) , to cause to stay , stop , set at rest RV. TS. 
Pan5cavBr. Ka1tyS3r. ; (%{ramayati} , m.c. also %{-te}) to gladden , 
delight , please , caress , enjoy carnally MBh. Ka1v. c. (3. sg. %
{ramayati-tarAm} , Ratna7v. iii , 9) ; to enjoy one's self , be 
pleased or delighted MBh. Hariv. ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] , he tells that 
the deer are coupling Pa1n2. 3-1 , 26 Va1rtt. 8 Pat.: Desid. in %
{riraMsA} , %{-su} q.v.: Desid. of Caus. in %{riramayiSu} q.v.: 
Intesis. %{raMramyate} or %{raMramIti} Pa1n2. 7-4 , 85. [Cf. Zd. 
ram , Gk. $ , 262829[867 ,2] $ , $ ; Lith. {rimti} ; Goth. 
{rimis}.]  





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 10:01 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
   It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found 
out
   that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of 
Swami
   Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most
  closely
   resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.
  
 
 
  M, so you're saying that the fact that MMY produced a
  controvesial will didn't make the connection for you?
 
 This was long before I knew about the will controversy. Actually 
this  
 was back when I actually believed M. was some sort of chosen  
 descendent of SBS.

What makes you think he is not?

 
 It was a shock at the time.


You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all the rage 
in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn of history.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
  It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out  
  that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami  
  Brahmananda. Sw. Rama's teaching on meditation probably most 
closely  
  resembles Swami Brahmananda's own practice, not TM.
 
 Careful, Vaj.  You're showing a bit too much of your stripes.


Swami Rama claimshe learned a specific meditation technique involving 
his own prayer beads (or whatever they are called) from Gurudev.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
sparaig wrote:
 Swami Rama claims he learned a specific meditation technique 
 involving his own prayer beads (or whatever they are called) 
 from Gurudev.

Not just a meditation technique for counting prayer beads - Swami Rama
was apparently intiated into the secret Sri Vidya cult by Swami
Brahmanand Saraswati.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
Vaj wrote: 
  It was a shock at the time.
 
sparaig wrote: 
 You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all 
 the rage in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn 
 of history.

Vaj seems not to be aware of the fact that the controversy concerning
the succession at Jyotirmath was ongoing for over 150 years (some say
250 years). For all we know, the real Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath is
the Rawal at the Badrinath Temple. What's shocking is that Vaj would
still be posting rumors about a murder at Jyotirmath in order to prove
his point. There's no evidence that a murder ever took place at
Jyotirmath in a conspiracy between the Marshy and the Ashram Cook.
That's just absurd and rediculous on it's face.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Vaj wrote: 
   It was a shock at the time.
  
 sparaig wrote: 
  You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all 
  the rage in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn 
  of history.
 
 Vaj seems not to be aware of the fact that the controversy 
concerning
 the succession at Jyotirmath was ongoing for over 150 years (some 
say
 250 years). For all we know, the real Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath 
is
 the Rawal at the Badrinath Temple. What's shocking is that Vaj 
would
 still be posting rumors about a murder at Jyotirmath in order to 
prove
 his point. There's no evidence that a murder ever took place at
 Jyotirmath in a conspiracy between the Marshy and the Ashram Cook.
 That's just absurd and rediculous on it's face.

Agreed. It is a poisonous and rediculous rumor. Gossip at its worst. 
Guru Dev was definitely not murdered.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:01 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote:

 Vaj seems not to be aware of the fact that the controversy concerning
 the succession at Jyotirmath was ongoing for over 150 years (some say
 250 years).

Actually Willie, I was aware of all this.

 For all we know, the real Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath is
 the Rawal at the Badrinath Temple. What's shocking is that Vaj would
 still be posting rumors about a murder at Jyotirmath in order to prove
 his point.

  I was responding to your remarks implying I was not familiar with  
Sw. R's connection to SBS. Don't ask so many questions if you don't  
want to hear an answer!


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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
  So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
  Brahmanand's headquarters matha at Sringeri, practice a 
  meditation similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija 
  mantras is widespread.
 
Vaj wrote:
 We've discussed your misconceptions on these subjects many 
 times Willie. 

There's no 'Willie', but if it makes you feel superior, call me by my
email address.

 If you haven't gotten it by now, I suspect you don't want to.

The only thing I've been able to get out of you is that you think
you've got the dirty low-down on the Marshy and the Swami Rama. But
you've admitted that techniques similar to TM and the use of the same
bijas are in widespread use all over India. That leads me to conclude
that TM is probably the most popular meditation practice in all of
India. When you put that together with the popularity of the
Deepackage and the Sri Sri, Marshy is like a household word over
there. There must be millions of people in India doing program based
on the teachings of Marshy.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread anon_astute_ff
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:44 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote:
 
  Vaj wrote:
   Which matha are you particularly referring to?
  
  The matha at Sringeri, the headquarters of the Saraswati sampradaya,
  the Dasanami sect founded by the Shakaracharya. Sringeri was the
  headquarters matha of Swami Brahmanand Saraswati, whose teacher was
  Swami Krishnanand Saraswati of Sringeri.
snip
  Because the Sri Vidya is a secret tantric sect - it's not available to
  non-initiates. Only insiders like Marshy know much about the bija
  mantras they use at Sringeri - Marshy was taught them by his master,
  Swami Brahmanand Saraswati over the course of thirteen years in the
  Himalayas. This has all been confirmed by Swami Rama - don't you read
  books?
 

If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh know this information?
Does his name contain Saraswati?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
 willytex@ wrote:
 
  Vaj wrote: 
It was a shock at the time.
   
  sparaig wrote: 
   You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all 
   the rage in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn 
   of history.
  
  Vaj seems not to be aware of the fact that the controversy 
 concerning
  the succession at Jyotirmath was ongoing for over 150 years (some 
 say
  250 years). For all we know, the real Shankaracharya of 
Jyotirmath 
 is
  the Rawal at the Badrinath Temple. What's shocking is that Vaj 
 would
  still be posting rumors about a murder at Jyotirmath in order to 
 prove
  his point. There's no evidence that a murder ever took place at
  Jyotirmath in a conspiracy between the Marshy and the Ashram Cook.
  That's just absurd and rediculous on it's face.
 
 Agreed. It is a poisonous and rediculous rumor. Gossip at its 
worst. 
 Guru Dev was definitely not murdered.

Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
a leading suspect!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
  There's no evidence that a murder ever took place at
  Jyotirmath in a conspiracy between the Marshy and the 
  Ashram Cook. That's just absurd and rediculous on it's 
  face.
 
jim_flanegin wrote:
 Agreed. It is a poisonous and rediculous rumor. Gossip at its 
 worst. Guru Dev was definitely not murdered.

That's right Jim - according to what I've read, Guru Dev died of
natural causes at Calcutta, not at Jyotirmath, and Guru Dev didn't
even have a cook; he prepared all his own meals. Swamis of the
Dasanami Order aren't supposed to be playing with fire or eating the
cooked food of others.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:

 Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
 a leading suspect!

Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a student  
of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his ashes!



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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
  The mantra you mentioned, 'ram',
 
cardemaister wrote:
 AFAIK, that's raama, not ram.
 
You are mistaken - 'raam' isn't a bija mantra in the tantric tradition
- it's the name of a deified hero of Ayodha. The word 'ram' is used as
a mantra by courtesy only. According to Swami Bhaktivedanta, the
'mantra' 'ram' is to be repeated on a daily basis, based on the
teachings of Chaitanya. Bija mantras are not found in standard
Sanskrit lexicons. 





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Vaj

On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:29 AM, sparaig wrote:

  It was a shock at the time.
 

 You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all the rage
 in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn of history.

It was the first time I had heard of a Shankaracharya student  
poisoning his teacher. You also need to understand that no one I had  
spoken to had heard of this poisoning scenario at the time--this was  
c. 1980. 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:
 
  Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
  a leading suspect!
 
 Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a
 student of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his ashes!

The messenger wrote:

It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out
that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami
Brahmananda.

The messenger appears to have chosen some very, shall
we say, interesting wording to convey his message.

Found out that... and found out that there was a rumor
that... carry very different connotations.

As well, leading suspect sounds so very much as if,
you know, law enforcement was involved, having decided
there *had* been a homicide, and having narrowed down
the suspects to Maharishi and a few others.

I mean, somebody who wasn't aware of the rumor and
what its origin was might actually think, from the way
the messenger phrased it, that it was established fact
that Guru Dev had been murdered and that MMY was an
official suspect in the crime.

But perhaps that's the way Swami Rama phrased it, and
perhaps the messenger was so uninformed that he took
it that way, seeing no need to qualify it.

Or perhaps not.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Bhairitu
Richard J. Williams wrote:

markmeredith wrote:
  

Most every Indian spiritual group I've investigated uses some 
of the bija mantras - not necessarily in an eye-closed effortless
meditation practice, but they seem to be very commonly known.  



So, it's a common practice all over India - Mr. Perino was mistaken.

  

As discussed here recently, early TMers report they weren't given 
bij mantras, but Ram.



Maybe so, but I'm TM meditator #212 in the USA, according to Beaulah
Smith, and I never got a 'Ram' bija mantra. From what I've read, the
very first TM meditator in India, a certain Mr. Raya, recieved the
same bija I recieved in 1965, that would be ten years after the
founding of the SRM by Marshy. 

  

It is alleged that Maharishi when he was first teaching used the Ram 
mantra.   Bhagavan Das in his book It's Here Now (Are You?) claims he 
was given the Ram mantra by Maharishi when he met shortly after arriving 
in India.  Bhagavan Das was the young American in India that Ram Das 
wrote about in Be Here Now.  Ram is considered a shanti mantra.  So 
by the time you learned the techniques may well have changed as MMY 
probably felt he needed a system for his teachers.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
anon_astute_ff wrote:
 If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh 
 know this information?

By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
studying with his master for thirteen years?

 Does his name contain Saraswati?

Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
Dev. Not to mention his given name, Mahesh, which means Shiva Yogi.
But Mahesh doesn't need any names at all really - a Maharishi dwarfs
any epithets given to most others. But I suspect that the reason
Mahesh isn't a Saraswati is that a person has to join the recluse
order founded by Shankaracharya before the surname Saraswati is used.
Mahesh didn't want to join the Order - Swamis suffer, Yogis enjoy.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
Vaj wrote:
 Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a 
 student of Guru Dev's, who said it. 

There's no evidence that Swami Rama ever said that Mahesh was a
leading suspect in a murder at Jyotirmath. In fact, the rumor was
started by Swami Prakashanand Saraswati, an erstwhile desciple of
Brahmanada's.

 So take it up with his ashes!

It's not mentioned in Swami Rama's book, 'Living With the Himalayan
Masters'. I could be wrong, but I'll re-read it and find out.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread anon_astute_ff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 anon_astute_ff wrote:
  If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh 
  know this information?
 
 By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
 studying with his master for thirteen years?
 
  Does his name contain Saraswati?
 
 Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
 Dev. Not to mention his given name, Mahesh, which means Shiva Yogi.
 But Mahesh doesn't need any names at all really - a Maharishi dwarfs
 any epithets given to most others. But I suspect that the reason
 Mahesh isn't a Saraswati is that a person has to join the recluse
 order founded by Shankaracharya before the surname Saraswati is used.
 Mahesh didn't want to join the Order - Swamis suffer, Yogis enjoy.

Would a real Maharishi goes into business?
Would one say give me a million to sit in another room and watch me on TV?
There is no Maharishi in TMO.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Rick Archer
on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 anon_astute_ff wrote:
 If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
 know this information?
 
 By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
 studying with his master for thirteen years?
 
 Does his name contain Saraswati?
 
 Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
 Dev. 

Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or so I
understood.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread anon_astute_ff
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  anon_astute_ff wrote:
  If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
  know this information?
  
  By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
  studying with his master for thirteen years?
  
  Does his name contain Saraswati?
  
  Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
  Dev. 
 
 Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or so I
 understood.


now this opens up that can of worms.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread brahmachari108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willytex@ wrote:
 
  anon_astute_ff wrote:
   If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh 
   know this information?
  
  By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
  studying with his master for thirteen years?
  
   Does his name contain Saraswati?
  
  Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
  Dev. Not to mention his given name, Mahesh, which means Shiva Yogi.
  But Mahesh doesn't need any names at all really - a Maharishi dwarfs
  any epithets given to most others. But I suspect that the reason
  Mahesh isn't a Saraswati is that a person has to join the recluse
  order founded by Shankaracharya before the surname Saraswati is used.
  Mahesh didn't want to join the Order - Swamis suffer, Yogis enjoy.
 
 Would a real Maharishi goes into business?
 Would one say give me a million to sit in another room and watch me on TV?
 There is no Maharishi in TMO.


Doesn't caste determine eligibility? How would an orthodox Shankaracharya like 
Brahmananda Saraswati waver from that?
Ksatriya's go into business. Sure he may have gained realization from his 
devotion, but to 
assume he was privy to Sri Vidya knowledge doesn't add up. He wasn't brahmin 
and it has 
been suggested that mahesh's caste may not have even been that.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Rick Archer
on 4/5/06 1:32 PM, anon_astute_ff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 anon_astute_ff wrote:
 If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
 know this information?
 
 By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
 studying with his master for thirteen years?
 
 Does his name contain Saraswati?
 
 Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by Guru
 Dev. 
 
 Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or so I
 understood.
 
 
 now this opens up that can of worms.

Probably he was when he was using that name.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:
 
  Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
  a leading suspect!
 
 Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a student  
 of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his ashes!

This Swami Rama must've been a very very poor student of his...





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Bhairitu
Richard J. Williams wrote:

So, you're saying that many other temples in India, not just
Brahmanand's headquarters matha at Sringeri, practice a 
meditation similar to TM and that the use of some TM bija 
mantras is widespread.

  

Vaj wrote:
  

We've discussed your misconceptions on these subjects many 
times Willie. 



There's no 'Willie', but if it makes you feel superior, call me by my
email address.

  

If you haven't gotten it by now, I suspect you don't want to.



The only thing I've been able to get out of you is that you think
you've got the dirty low-down on the Marshy and the Swami Rama. But
you've admitted that techniques similar to TM and the use of the same
bijas are in widespread use all over India. That leads me to conclude
that TM is probably the most popular meditation practice in all of
India. When you put that together with the popularity of the
Deepackage and the Sri Sri, Marshy is like a household word over
there. There must be millions of people in India doing program based
on the teachings of Marshy.
  

When was the last time you were in India, Willy?  Your statement also 
shows your ignorance of mantra shastra and Hindu traditions.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:29 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
   It was a shock at the time.
  
 
  You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all the 
rage
  in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn of history.
 
 It was the first time I had heard of a Shankaracharya student  
 poisoning his teacher. 





Not true.

Elle Driver (played by Darryl Hannah) did it to her master, Pai Mei, 
whem she fed him poisoned fish in Kill Bill, Vol. II.






 You also need to understand that no one I had  
 spoken to had heard of this poisoning scenario at the time--this 
was  
 c. 1980.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Richard J. Williams wrote:
 
 markmeredith wrote:
   
 
 Most every Indian spiritual group I've investigated uses some 
 of the bija mantras - not necessarily in an eye-closed effortless
 meditation practice, but they seem to be very commonly known.  
 
 
 
 So, it's a common practice all over India - Mr. Perino was 
mistaken.
 
   
 
 As discussed here recently, early TMers report they weren't 
given 
 bij mantras, but Ram.
 
 
 
 Maybe so, but I'm TM meditator #212 in the USA, according to 
Beaulah
 Smith, and I never got a 'Ram' bija mantra. From what I've read, 
the
 very first TM meditator in India, a certain Mr. Raya, recieved the
 same bija I recieved in 1965, that would be ten years after the
 founding of the SRM by Marshy. 
 
   
 
 It is alleged that Maharishi when he was first teaching used 
the Ram 
 mantra.   Bhagavan Das in his book It's Here Now (Are You?) 
claims he 
 was given the Ram mantra by Maharishi when he met shortly after 
arriving 
 in India.  Bhagavan Das was the young American in India that Ram 
Das 
 wrote about in Be Here Now.  Ram is considered a shanti 
mantra.  So 
 by the time you learned the techniques may well have changed as 
MMY 
 probably felt he needed a system for his teachers.


In '75 a Christian Fundamentalist was in Fairfield who claimed TM 
was evil had been initiated in the early or mid '60s (I can't 
remember exactly) and he also said that that was the mantra he was 
given.  He said this at a town meeting where he spoke from a dias 
that also included Johnathan Shear.  When he said his mantra, Shear 
said to him: Are you sure that's the mantra you got?  That doesn't 
sound right!  And the Fundie angrily responded: Well, that's the 
one they gave me!

I sorta got the impression that the Fundie felt that in getting such 
a pedestrian and common mantra that maybe he was ripped off.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
willytex@ wrote:
 
  anon_astute_ff wrote:
   If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh 
   know this information?
  
  By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
  studying with his master for thirteen years?
  
   Does his name contain Saraswati?
  
  Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated 
by Guru
  Dev. Not to mention his given name, Mahesh, which means Shiva 
Yogi.
  But Mahesh doesn't need any names at all really - a Maharishi 
dwarfs
  any epithets given to most others. But I suspect that the reason
  Mahesh isn't a Saraswati is that a person has to join the recluse
  order founded by Shankaracharya before the surname Saraswati is 
used.
  Mahesh didn't want to join the Order - Swamis suffer, Yogis 
enjoy.
 
 Would a real Maharishi goes into business?


Yes.


 Would one say give me a million to sit in another room and watch 
me on TV?




...not one who wanted to be SUCCESSFUL in going into business...



 There is no Maharishi in TMO.



...and there's no ASS in ASSUME...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  anon_astute_ff wrote:
  If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
  know this information?
  
  By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
  studying with his master for thirteen years?
  
  Does his name contain Saraswati?
  
  Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by 
Guru
  Dev. 
 
 Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or 
so I
 understood.


I think it depends on whether that's Hindi truncation for
Sanskrit bala or baala ( = bAla). Below are all the meanings in 
Cologne Digital for both of those words. I've forgot which
one is correct in that case:

1 bala n. (or m. g. %{ardharcA7di}) power , strength , might , 
vigour , force , validity RV. c. c. (%{balAt} , ` forcibly , 
against one's will , without being able to help it ' ; also = %
{bala} ibc. , or %{balena} , %{bala-tas} , with gen. or ifc. , ` by 
force , by the power or on the strength or in virtue or by means of , 
by ') ; force or power of articulation , TUP. ; force considered as 
a sixth organ of action (cf. %{karme7ndriya}) MBh. ; (the Buddhists 
reckon 10 forces , the ascetic S3aivas four , which according to Sch. 
on R. [B.] are %{sAman} , %{dAna} , %{bheda} , and %{nigraha}) ; 
Force personified as one of the Visve Deva1h2 MBh. ; power of , 
expertness in (loc.) Nal. ; stoutness , bulkiness L. ; (also pl. ; 
ifc. f. %{A}) military force , troops , an army Mn. MBh. c. ; (L. 
also shape ; body ; semen virile ; gum ; blood ; a young shoot ; 
bone) ; m. a crow MBh. ; Crataeva Roxburghii L. ; half-ripe barley 
L. ; N. of a demon conquered by Indra (the brother of Vr2itra , in 
older texts %{vala}) RV. c. c. ; of an elder brother of Kr2ishn2a 
(also called Bala-deva , Balabhadra , Bala-ra1ma c.) MBh. Pur. ; cf. 
IW. 332 c. ; (with Jainas) a white Bala or elder brother of 
Va1sudeva (9 in number , viz. Acala , Vijaya , Bhadra , Su-prabha , 
Su-daris3ana , A1nanda , Nandana , Padma , and Ra1ma) ; N. of a son 
of Varun2a and brother of Sura1 MBh. ; of an attendant on Skanda 
ib. ; of a son of An3giras ib. ; of a son of Parikshit ib. ; of a son 
of Parija1tra BhP. ; of a son of Kr2ishn2a ib. ; of a lexicographer 
(also written %{vala}) Naish. Sch. ; of a horse of the Moon VP. ; (%
{A}) f. Sida Cordifolia Sus3r. (du. the plants Bala1 and Ati-bala1 
ib.) ; N. of a partic. charm R. Ragh. (cf. %{ati-b-}) ; the youngest 
sister in a drama L. ; N. of a daughter of Daksha R. ; of a daughter 
of Raudra1s3va Hariv. ; of a female divinity who executes the orders 
of the 17th Arhat of the present Avasarpin2i1 L. ; of a peasant girl 
Lalit. ; (%{bala4}) n. = %{vala4} , a cavern AV. ; mfn. strong , 
robust L. ; sick (= %{amin}) L. [Cf. Lat. {valere} , {valor} c.] 

2 bAla mf(%{A})n. (cf. %{vAla}) young , childish , infantine , not 
full-grown or developed (of per. sons and things) Gr2S. Up. Mn. MBh. 
c. ; newly risen , early (as the sun or its rays) Ragh. ; new or 
waxing (as the moon) ib. Kum. ; puerile , ignorant , simple , foolish 
Mn. Hariv. Ka1v. ; pure (as an animal fit for sacrifice) L. ; m.a 
child , boy (esp. one under 5 years) Mn. MBh. c. ; (in law) a minor 
(minors are classified as %{kunAra} , or boys under 5 years of age , %
{zizu} under 8 , %{pogaNDa} from the 5th to the end of the 9th or 
till the 16th year , and %{kizora} from the 10th to the 16th year) ; 
a fool , simpleton Mn. Pan5cat. ; any young animal L. ; a colt , foal 
L. ; a five years old elephant L. ; Cypriuus Denticulatus or Rohita 
L. ; N. of a Rakshas VP. ; of a prince Ra1jat. ; (%{A}) f. a female 
child , girl , young woman (esp. one under 16 years) Mn. MBh. c. ; a 
one year old cow L. ; small cardamoms L. ; Aloe Indica L. ; a kind of 
metre L. ; a partic. mystical prayer Cat. ; N. of the mother of 
Va1lin and Su-griva (said to have been formed by Praja1-pati out of 
some dust which had fallen into his eyes) R. ; n. Andropogon 
Muricatus L. ; heat L. 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread bob_brigante
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  anon_astute_ff wrote:
  If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
  know this information?
  
  By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
  studying with his master for thirteen years?
  
  Does his name contain Saraswati?
  
  Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated 
by Guru
  Dev. 
 

 Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or 
so I
 understood.


**

Bala means strength, so a bal brahmachari is a strong celibate, a 
celibate all his life. In Jyotish, shadbala means six strengths of 
grahas/planets:

http://varahamihira.blogspot.com/2004_07_30_varahamihira_archive.html







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Apr 5, 2006, at 11:29 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
   It was a shock at the time.
  
 
  You're easily shocked since succession issues have been all the rage
  in religious and spiritual traditions since the dawn of history.
 
 It was the first time I had heard of a Shankaracharya student  
 poisoning his teacher. You also need to understand that no one I had  
 spoken to had heard of this poisoning scenario at the time--this was  
 c. 1980.


Since the issue never came to trial, obviously the evidence was rather 
weak.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 
  
  On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:
  
   Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
   a leading suspect!
  
  Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a
  student of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his ashes!
 
 The messenger wrote:
 
 It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found out
 that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of Swami
 Brahmananda.
 
 The messenger appears to have chosen some very, shall
 we say, interesting wording to convey his message.
 
 Found out that... and found out that there was a rumor
 that... carry very different connotations.
 
 As well, leading suspect sounds so very much as if,
 you know, law enforcement was involved, having decided
 there *had* been a homicide, and having narrowed down
 the suspects to Maharishi and a few others.
 
 I mean, somebody who wasn't aware of the rumor and
 what its origin was might actually think, from the way
 the messenger phrased it, that it was established fact
 that Guru Dev had been murdered and that MMY was an
 official suspect in the crime.
 
 But perhaps that's the way Swami Rama phrased it, and
 perhaps the messenger was so uninformed that he took
 it that way, seeing no need to qualify it.
 
 Or perhaps not.


You're being rather vague here Judy. Was this intentional...?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  
   
   On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:
   
Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
a leading suspect!
   
   Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a
   student of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his 
   ashes!
  
  The messenger wrote:
  
  It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found
  out that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder of 
  Swami Brahmananda.
  
  The messenger appears to have chosen some very, shall
  we say, interesting wording to convey his message.
  
  Found out that... and found out that there was a rumor
  that... carry very different connotations.
  
  As well, leading suspect sounds so very much as if,
  you know, law enforcement was involved, having decided
  there *had* been a homicide, and having narrowed down
  the suspects to Maharishi and a few others.
  
  I mean, somebody who wasn't aware of the rumor and
  what its origin was might actually think, from the way
  the messenger phrased it, that it was established fact
  that Guru Dev had been murdered and that MMY was an
  official suspect in the crime.
  
  But perhaps that's the way Swami Rama phrased it, and
  perhaps the messenger was so uninformed that he took
  it that way, seeing no need to qualify it.
  
  Or perhaps not.
 
 You're being rather vague here Judy. Was this intentional...?

Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
anon_astute_ff wrote:
 Would a real Maharishi goes into business?

All the rishis bought and sold cattle - haven't you read the Vedas? 

 Would one say give me a million to sit in another room and 
 watch me on TV?

In India millions of people watch Maharishi on TV - not sure if they
watch from another room or not though.

 There is no Maharishi in TMO.

There's no such thing as the TMO - you made that up. From what I've
read here, you haven't been within a thousand miles of a Maharishi
Golden Dome of Pure Knowledge. What's up with that?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
bob_brigante wrote:
  Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, 
  or so I understood.
 
You are mistaken, Bob - according to the Cologne Digital Sanskrit
Lexicon, the Sanskrit term 'bal' is an interjection imitating the
sound of a falling body, as in 'falling at the feet of the master'.
Many Sanskrit terms are derived from common household sounds. For
example, the bija mantra 'phat', heard at every puja, is derived from
the crack-sound made by a two-stroked wheeled vehicle, the motor
rickshaw, found all over downtown Delhi.  





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Nelson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   

On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:
 snip
  
  You're being rather vague here Judy. Was this intentional...?
 
 Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.

+++ Shirley is a jester ?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
sparaig wrote:
 You're being rather vague here Judy. 

Some people just feel better when they have someone to talk to, I guess.

 Was this intentional...?

Well, I think it was her intention to try and hijack the thread - just
another excuse to open her big pie hole and spout off like a
know-it-all. Anybody can see that Judy hasn't added one thing to the
current thread. Obviously Judy's not an insider with any new
information. Go figure.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ 
 wrote:
 
  on 4/5/06 12:30 PM, Richard J. Williams at willytex@ wrote:
  
   anon_astute_ff wrote:
   If it is not available to non-initiates how would mahesh
   know this information?
   
   By getting himself initiated into the tantric tradition and then
   studying with his master for thirteen years?
   
   Does his name contain Saraswati?
   
   Sure, it's Bal, the name given to Mahesh when he was initiated by 
 Guru
   Dev. 
  
  Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, or 
 so I
  understood.
 
 
 I think it depends on whether that's Hindi truncation for
 Sanskrit bala or baala ( = bAla). Below are all the meanings in 
 Cologne Digital for both of those words. I've forgot which
 one is correct in that case:
 
 1 bala n. (or m. g. %{ardharcA7di}) power , strength , might , 
 vigour , force , validity RV. c. c. (%{balAt} , ` forcibly , 
 against one's will , without being able to help it ' ; also = %
 {bala} ibc. , or %{balena} , %{bala-tas} , with gen. or ifc. , ` by 
 force , by the power or on the strength or in virtue or by means of , 
 by ') ; force or power of articulation , TUP. ; force considered as 
 a sixth organ of action (cf. %{karme7ndriya}) MBh. ; (the Buddhists 
 reckon 10 forces , the ascetic S3aivas four , which according to Sch. 
 on R. [B.] are %{sAman} , %{dAna} , %{bheda} , and %{nigraha}) ; 
 Force personified as one of the Visve Deva1h2 MBh. ; power of , 
 expertness in (loc.) Nal. ; stoutness , bulkiness L. ; (also pl. ; 
 ifc. f. %{A}) military force , troops , an army Mn. MBh. c. ; (L. 
 also shape ; body ; semen virile ; gum ; blood ; a young shoot ; 
 bone) ; m. a crow MBh. ; Crataeva Roxburghii L. ; half-ripe barley 
 L. ; N. of a demon conquered by Indra (the brother of Vr2itra , in 
 older texts %{vala}) RV. c. c. ; of an elder brother of Kr2ishn2a 
 (also called Bala-deva , Balabhadra , Bala-ra1ma c.) MBh. Pur. ; cf. 
 IW. 332 c. ; (with Jainas) a white Bala or elder brother of 
 Va1sudeva (9 in number , viz. Acala , Vijaya , Bhadra , Su-prabha , 
 Su-daris3ana , A1nanda , Nandana , Padma , and Ra1ma) ; N. of a son 
 of Varun2a and brother of Sura1 MBh. ; of an attendant on Skanda 
 ib. ; of a son of An3giras ib. ; of a son of Parikshit ib. ; of a son 
 of Parija1tra BhP. ; of a son of Kr2ishn2a ib. ; of a lexicographer 
 (also written %{vala}) Naish. Sch. ; of a horse of the Moon VP. ; (%
 {A}) f. Sida Cordifolia Sus3r. (du. the plants Bala1 and Ati-bala1 
 ib.) ; N. of a partic. charm R. Ragh. (cf. %{ati-b-}) ; the youngest 
 sister in a drama L. ; N. of a daughter of Daksha R. ; of a daughter 
 of Raudra1s3va Hariv. ; of a female divinity who executes the orders 
 of the 17th Arhat of the present Avasarpin2i1 L. ; of a peasant girl 
 Lalit. ; (%{bala4}) n. = %{vala4} , a cavern AV. ; mfn. strong , 
 robust L. ; sick (= %{amin}) L. [Cf. Lat. {valere} , {valor} c.] 
 
 2 bAla mf(%{A})n. (cf. %{vAla}) young , childish , infantine , not 
 full-grown or developed (of per. sons and things) Gr2S. Up. Mn. MBh. 
 c. ; newly risen , early (as the sun or its rays) Ragh. ; new or 
 waxing (as the moon) ib. Kum. ; puerile , ignorant , simple , foolish 
 Mn. Hariv. Ka1v. ; pure (as an animal fit for sacrifice) L. ; m.a 
 child , boy (esp. one under 5 years) Mn. MBh. c. ; (in law) a minor 
 (minors are classified as %{kunAra} , or boys under 5 years of age , %
 {zizu} under 8 , %{pogaNDa} from the 5th to the end of the 9th or 
 till the 16th year , and %{kizora} from the 10th to the 16th year) ; 
 a fool , simpleton Mn. Pan5cat. ; any young animal L. ; a colt , foal 
 L. ; a five years old elephant L. ; Cypriuus Denticulatus or Rohita 
 L. ; N. of a Rakshas VP. ; of a prince Ra1jat. ; (%{A}) f. a female 
 child , girl , young woman (esp. one under 16 years) Mn. MBh. c. ; a 
 one year old cow L. ; small cardamoms L. ; Aloe Indica L. ; a kind of 
 metre L. ; a partic. mystical prayer Cat. ; N. of the mother of 
 Va1lin and Su-griva (said to have been formed by Praja1-pati out of 
 some dust which had fallen into his eyes) R. ; n. Andropogon 
 Muricatus L. ; heat L.


A pun perhaps, or multiple levels of meaning in his name then?

JohnY





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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
   

On Apr 5, 2006, at 12:36 PM, authfriend wrote:

 Just a rumor?  Why, our Vaj just told us Maharishi was
 a leading suspect!

Don't kill the messenger! Actually it was Sri Swami Rama, a
student of Guru Dev's, who said it. So take it up with his 
ashes!
   
   The messenger wrote:
   
   It was actually from a conversation with Sw. Rama that I found
   out that Mahesh was one of the leading suspects in the murder 
of 
   Swami Brahmananda.
   
   The messenger appears to have chosen some very, shall
   we say, interesting wording to convey his message.
   
   Found out that... and found out that there was a rumor
   that... carry very different connotations.
   
   As well, leading suspect sounds so very much as if,
   you know, law enforcement was involved, having decided
   there *had* been a homicide, and having narrowed down
   the suspects to Maharishi and a few others.
   
   I mean, somebody who wasn't aware of the rumor and
   what its origin was might actually think, from the way
   the messenger phrased it, that it was established fact
   that Guru Dev had been murdered and that MMY was an
   official suspect in the crime.
   
   But perhaps that's the way Swami Rama phrased it, and
   perhaps the messenger was so uninformed that he took
   it that way, seeing no need to qualify it.
   
   Or perhaps not.
  
  You're being rather vague here Judy. Was this intentional...?
 
 Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.



...and don't call me Shirley...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
authfriend wrote:
 Shirley, you jest.

Very impressive!






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 bob_brigante wrote:
   Doesn't Bal mean boy - Bal Brahmachari means life celibate, 
   or so I understood.
  
 You are mistaken, Bob - according to the Cologne Digital Sanskrit
 Lexicon, the Sanskrit term 'bal' is an interjection imitating the
 sound of a falling body, as in 'falling at the feet of the master'.
 Many Sanskrit terms are derived from common household sounds. For
 example, the bija mantra 'phat', heard at every puja, is derived from
 the crack-sound made by a two-stroked wheeled vehicle, the motor
 rickshaw, found all over downtown Delhi.


Regardless, my recollection isthat he was originally called balraj 
brahmachari.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread Richard J. Williams
sparaig wrote:
 Regardless, my recollection isthat he was originally called 
 balraj brahmachari.

You are mistaken - he was originally called 'Mahesh', named after the
Lord Shiva, his family's personal diety. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
  Moi, intentionally vague?  Shirley, you jest.
 
 +++ Shirley is a jester ?

Whassamatta, you don't think women have a sensayooma?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-05 Thread cardemaister

 anon_astute_ff wrote:
  Would a real Maharishi goes into business?

Bhagavad-giitaa, VII 16:

catur-vidhaa bhajante maaM janaaH
 sukRtino 'rjuna
aarto jijñaasur **arthaarthii** 
jñaanii ca bharatarSabha..7.16..

7.16 O Arjuna, foremost of the Bharata dynasty, 
four classes of people
of virtuous deeds adore Me: 
the afflicted, the seeker of Knowledge, the
seeker of wealth and the man of Knowledge.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: TMO Insider's Report

2006-04-04 Thread wayback71
Richard, what is your point and could you just say it clearly? 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 The Chopra deal presented a fork in the road for the most TMers, since
 to public appearances, Chopra was the new Maharishi. Accepting Tony
 Nader as King of the World was harder to take than accepting a medical
 doctor with magic pills. Then along came the Sri Sri and the Prakash
 and now the Kali Ma. Not to worry - if disappointing the TMer base
 seemed like a good idea to Marshy, he was probably correct in saying
 to Girish Varma Who needs them?
 
 So, wouldn't it be surprising to find out, by means of another insider
 informer, that, not only are there major temples in India which adhere
 to the Mantrayana, but that one of the most important Mathas in all of
 India, none other than the Headquarters of the Dasanami Sampradaya,
 founded by the Shankaracharya himself, is the locus of a tantric sect
 which specializes in the meditation on the fifteen bija-mantras of the
 Sri Vidya?








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