Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-19 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/18/06 11:00:13 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Here's what you said:"Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam or that we have no business helping these people get rid of

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: I just cannot see the speech as offensive. The quotation becomes offensive only, when it is taken out of the context of the whole

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jstein@ writes:

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: The situation isn't helped any by those in the West who then point to this logically misplaced anger and declare the angry group as extremists and madmen. The pope was not pointing to

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone whosays Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handledemocracy. I gather you just made that part up. Oh, I've heard easy1 make that comment several times.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone whosays Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handledemocracy. I gather you just made that part up. Easy1 has made either that exact statement or one

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:33:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Funny, I don't remember much arguing about invadingAfghanistan, at least not after 9/11. Kind of like the 50,000 body bags for US soldiers to take Baghdad caused by gas and chemical attacks.I

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone who says Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handle democracy. I gather you just made that

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-18 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:30:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm asking for a name and quote from someone who says Iraqis aren't evolved enough to handle democracy. I gather you just made that

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude. It isn't working, nor will it. Is this really how

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into submission and servitude.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 7:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:06 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: Now I'm interested in reading it too. Know where I can find it? Here:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/ september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university- regensburg_en.html Thanks! Sal To subscribe,

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
Irmeli, I'm with you on the Pope having done nothing really wrong in this scenario, and that in fact he was trying to spread peace, not conflict. I think that one of the things that many people are missing is how *medieval* this whole tempest in a pisspot is. That is, they're missing the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the core of the problem. Just so we know what we're talking about here, this is

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the world for almost seven hundred years. They WON back then, and they've been being

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread jyouells2000
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 7:33 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread curtisdeltablues
Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their global strategies accordingly. The emotional reactions (and overreactions) we're seeing in the Arab

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:36:10 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: they cared anything about these people in Third Worldcountries, Americans wouldn't have allowed their leadersto have treated them the way they have, for decades now. But they clearly *didn't*

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. Any culture which invented the croissant, cappucino, and

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 7:59:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care whether these people live or die and who design and implement their

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely dependent on tips -- and sometimes even when it is -- they WON'T converse with you in

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:57 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: snip So I don't think apathy is the right word to describe the acceptance of the status quo we see in many Arab countries. It's more that many of the people really

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 7:59:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live or die. That's why they elect leaders who don't care

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 9:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: At least in the major cities, many if not most of the people you speak to *can* understand and speak English. It's just that unless their income is completely

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread curtisdeltablues
I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme. (sometimes I have needed the phrase does your brother carry a gun.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread new . morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Americans as a whole don't care whether the people in the Third World live

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. I always had good luck with the phrase, We've come for your daughters, Chuck. When properly translated,

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread new . morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I just learned to say hi and thank you in the languages of the different Asian communities I live with. I always had good luck

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at having been treated like the niggers of the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they are NOT is apathetic. If a president of

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab world, in my opinion, is not *just* religious fundamentalism, but a sense of rage at

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can you give us *just one*

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having a 25 hour work week (or whatever the maximum hours the French unions have negotiated for themselves) is NOT a basic human right, Barry. 35 hours, Shemp. But you have the origin of this shorter work week

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread curtisdeltablues
It totally transforms my relationships like a cultural open seseme... I'll have to look into this. That's the effect I was going for with my phrase... :-) Can I pour you another? can work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 10:19 AM, shempmcgurk wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:19 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: What you're seeing in the Arab

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread new . morning
your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more reflective of the will of the people than systems where some peoples vote count 10x,

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the third world people, we can force the rest into

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. It's not so much a globbing on to power as it is a protection against the misuse of power

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:31 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: The current conflict continues as long as the West thinks that by killing enough of the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. No huge insight there. The question is whether a democracy of one-person one vote is more

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread new . morning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power over others, relative to their population, will do so. It's not so

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 8:40 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Gotta agree. I currently live in France, which has MORE than its share of problems. They're *also* a remarkably Self Important culture. But one of the things they

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: snip Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: your argument appears to be that those who can glob onto more power

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread new . morning
If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and sustained ways, I would give your arguments more credence

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Sal Sunshine
On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the US in substantive and

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric funding of local elections) etc, helps any minorities in the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, Again, I'm not a supporter of jerrymandering, but one of the most prevalent uses of jerrymandering of the past 40

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 17, 2006, at 12:05 PM, new.morning wrote: If you can provide examples where the electoral college and senate system (as well as jerrymandering, corrupt campaign finance and lobbying, out-of-distric

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Pope's recent speech the Muslims feel so agitated about is really very good. It is about the old historical connection Christianity in its essence has to reason due to strong Hellenistic influences from the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: snip In my opinion the pope addresses this issue in the speech relatively tactfully by a quotation of the issue that he sees to be at the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just cannot see the speech as offensive. The quotation becomes offensive only, when it is taken out of the context of the whole speech. The pope is quoting a Christian Byzantine Emperor, who is trying to

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Imagine the wrath of Christians if a non- Christian were to say the only new things Jesus brought were evil and inhuman, citing, say, Jesus'

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 11:59:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a SaddamWho has said that? Can you give us *just one* name and quote? Strangely, I

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a SaddamWho has said that? Can you give us *just one* nameand quote? Yes , A democratic Senator ot

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan because "no nation has ever conquered the Afghans and we would

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle democracy and need a Saddam Who has said that? Can

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread MDixon6569
In a message dated 9/17/06 9:13:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]com writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough to handle

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:13:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a messag Unfortunately, there are many who say

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread sparaig
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:40:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yet those same 51 million and 59 million would have been led by those that would never have committed to liberating Afghanistan

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, MDixon6569@ wrote: In a message dated 9/17/06 9:41:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, jstein@ writes: Unfortunately, there are many who say they aren't evolved enough

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-17 Thread Irmeli Mattsson
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Irmeli Mattsson Irmeli.Mattsson@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Imagine the wrath of Christians if a non- Christian were to

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-16 Thread jim_flanegin
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: In other words, as far as I can tell they're blasting the Pope for knowing

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread TurquoiseB
I agree. It was actually a very scholarly speech, delivered to a scholarly audience. Everything he said was well-quoted, and attributed to the people who said it; none of it was his ideas alone. That said, what the Islamic community is overreacting to is that the sources he quoted really took a

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread bob_brigante
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. It was actually a very scholarly speech, delivered to a scholarly audience. Everything he said was well-quoted, and attributed to the people who said it; none of it was his ideas alone. That said, what the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread bob_brigante
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree. It was actually a very scholarly speech, delivered to a scholarly audience. Everything he said was well-quoted, and attributed to the people who said it; none of it was his ideas alone. That said, what the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: In other words, as far as I can tell they're blasting the Pope for knowing more about the history of their religion than they do.

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread bob_brigante
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: In other words, as far as I can tell they're blasting the Pope for knowing

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Pope's speech on Faith and reason

2006-09-15 Thread shempmcgurk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: In