Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Bhairitu
Vaj wrote:


 On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:

 FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
 Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
 habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
 because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
 with us.

 This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
 all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
 saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
 of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
 Emperor's new new clothes.


 Interesting point.

 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all  
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states  
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your  
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust  
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one  
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the  
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic  
 potentials.


I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left 
hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good 
people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be given 
the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but there is 
not a list of rules to follow.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 Vaj wrote:



 On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:


 FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June,  
 1971,
 Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
 habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
 because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
 with us.

 This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
 all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
 saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
 of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but  
 the
 Emperor's new new clothes.



 Interesting point.

 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic
 potentials.



 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be  
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but  
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.

I am not describing rules but merely commenting on enlightened  
activity. One still needs to be aware of actions once one has  
reached the point where one picks and chooses which karmas to keep  
and which are no longer of use. This is beyond left or right.

Last time I looked, I still had both hands :-)...and really that's  
how I see the path. No hand path or both hand path.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be  
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but  
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.

I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's  
actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem  
to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in  
the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and  
has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum  
wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says  
'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and  
indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not  
attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted  
their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain  
their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons  
a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain  
extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.

Sure you can get a certain amount of awakening or some minor state-- 
but you will not be able exhaust all human karma. Like I've said  
before here, when you meet someone who stops casting a shadow, ask  
them. IME most do not even seem to be aware that a state exists where  
one knows all their karma and gains the fine ability to chose.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/11/05 4:06 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
 
 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.
 
 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.

Well that explains Maharishi then. Some teachers, such as Amma, say they'll
be happy to come back as long as needed for the sake of their devotees.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:06 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:


 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the  
 left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.


 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.


 Well that explains Maharishi then.

In what way do you mean that?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.
 
 
 Well that explains Maharishi then.
 
 In what way do you mean that?

Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the karma of having taken on
so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he has cared for or failed to
care for those students. Of course, I'm being somewhat facetious.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of  
 one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard- 
 drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a  
 quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which  
 says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow  
 body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the  
 reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.



 Well that explains Maharishi then.


 In what way do you mean that?


 Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the karma of having  
 taken on
 so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he has cared for or  
 failed to
 care for those students. Of course, I'm being somewhat facetious.

Yeah, there's a certain point beyond which the reverse could be true!



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Peter


--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  
  I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one
 is not free of one's
  actions if one has students. It's interesting
 that many do not seem
  to get interdependence.  You might have the
 cleanest hard-drive in
  the cosmos, but your best server friend next
 door is unfragged and
  has many bad sectors--what happens when you're
 connected by a quantum
  wireless connection? There is a saying among
 Dzogpachenpos which says
  'if you have many students, you will not attain
 the rainbow body' and
  indeed some of the greatest masters who had many
 students did not
  attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return
 and having exhausted
  their own karmas. Those who you initiate and
 they do not maintain
  their practice are connected to you like
 children. One of the reasons
  a teacher takes money or donations is that
 action, to a certain
  extent, relieves them of a certain amount of
 karma.
  
  
  Well that explains Maharishi then.
  
  In what way do you mean that?
 
 Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the
 karma of having taken on
 so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he
 has cared for or failed to
 care for those students. Of course, I'm being
 somewhat facetious.

Ahhh...several more incarnations for you, Grasshopper.


 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-10 Thread Vaj


On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971, Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits with us.  This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the Emperor's new new clothes. Interesting point.It's different though as we approach Unity and the "extinction of all phenomenon". There's actually a yogic saying on this which states "Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View." In other words, as your consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic potentials.





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