Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread Michael Jackson
Well, I am in the midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this morning 
about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of bliss. I felt it all around and 
in my body, sort of like an energy field that felt and feels palpable, like 
an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does justice to it. It 
is still going on and feels pretty good. It can fade if I begin to think about 
other stiff and I feel it more strongly as I allow myself to be aware of it.

As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing outfits like the TM 
Movement do is to get folks thinking about awareness itself, in other words 
that we are something other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly 
shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help make for a happier 
life I think if one knows one can be something other than one's latest 
emotional state.

The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement tells a pack of 
lies that serve to serve him or her and lead people down a path that is 
ultimately serving only the leader and his/her movement.
That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM Movement. Even when I 
was a TM junkie, I noticed that the Movement only wanted you around if you were 
giving everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie - it was 
always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really gave back. 

I know you current TM junkies will say that it was Marshy's Supreme Knowledge 
that he gave and us lowly dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious 
gift and abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's Movement, even though 
it has accomplished nothing of substance except to perpetuate itself all these 
years.

Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as I slap the Movement?




On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 I'm convinced you can
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 no way to rule it out.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 I
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel and
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap! WE
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook
 to make a nice living for himself. 
 
 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different
 experiences of our own awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart
 Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a long time, making
 it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO
 accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy,
 Muktananda, Kriyananda and all the rest where they appear to
 be brilliant enlightened individuals one day and the next
 day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual
 opportunists and so forth. 
 Well, just
 as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations
 of perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't
 there be the same in so-called enlightened or at
 least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still not
 convinced there are these enlightened altered
 states of consciousness at all and I certainly don't
 think you can categorize these states, if they do exist,
 into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that
 are the same for all those having attained those
 states.
 
 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and
 Discerning 'Cult' from

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread TurquoiseBee
Well, I don't know Robin's sexual orientation for sure, but I think we can 
infer a lot from the fact that he pitched a Class A Hissy Fit when I called him 
a drama queen and he thought that I was inferring he was gay. Can you say 
hysterical overreaction? I think you can. 

Besides, if what Judy has been trying to infer about their private email 
relationship is true, how hetero could he possibly be, right? We've all seen 
her photos...




 From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 2:55 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 


  
Thanks for the info - still get a weird feeling about this - he must have been 
pretty delusional to take twenty five years to wake up to reality. I have heard 
of, and been prone myself, of attempting to prolong an experience of higher 
states of consciousness, but this doesn't hold water for me. Does anyone know 
Robin's sexual orientation? I am simply curious, because he may be masking a 
larger psychological issue of social integration, vs. working his way out of 
Unity.


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:


Actually, in addition to his work on himself, he was supporting himself by 
doing substitute teaching in inner-city middle schools for much of that period. 
Hard to imagine a job more appropriate for cutting the ego down to size.

Most of the 25 years was apparently sheer misery and constant agonizing 
struggle.

As far as he's concerned, his awareness is now back to ordinary waking state.

 I just meant in terms of his awareness. The whole thing sounds weird, as if 
he could not escape a context that he very much wanted to, and it took him 25 
to 30% of his lifespan??? Even criminals get off more lightly. His explanations 
sound like too much self referencing, unless he was cutting diamonds, or 
building houses, or surfing, etc. during that 25 years. 



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:


Not sure what you mean by ended up. Could you explain?


A lot of what he was doing, apparently, was purging himself of what he called 
his secret infirmities--presumably personality flaws he hadn't been aware 
of--that he believed were responsible for things going so wrong. Or rather, 
as he saw it, what the negative intelligences he perceived to have brought 
about his enlightenment took advantage of to bring him to grief. The other 
big part, I gather, was fighting to get his free will back. He said he hadn't 
been able to access it while he was in Unity.


(Caveat for the terminally confused: This is what Robin said. I'm simply 
recounting it, not endorsing it. I haven't a clue as to its accuracy 
reality-wise.)


 Yeah, that is because Unity Consciousness is still Unity, in terms of the 
Self; a person's 'owned' universality. It isn't full enlightenment. Brahman, 
where the identity dissolves, is actual enlightenment. All the seven states, 
in MMY's early model (before he began in the 80's talking about Brahman), are 
recognized in terms of the self, Universal or not. Beyond that, lies true 
freedom and liberation. I can understand the lock UC could have on a dramatic 
personality, but *25 years* to 'get rid of it'? That seems really weird to 
me, and excessive. I wonder where he ended up? 



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:


Fascinating, Salyavin. That is remarkably similar--virtually identical--to 
how Robin described his own exprience. Except for him, for whatever reason, 
it lasted for over a decade, and he spent 25 years working to get rid of it 
because of how ultimately destructive it had proved to be.


 At work once I became the unwitting centre of attention when I slipped 
into unity on a busy friday afternoon when we were normally running 
around trying to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair 
and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the same I was, 
intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all things good from some 
centre that wasn't even me but was everything that existed and it was all 
lush, powerful and vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and 
that was that. What it all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a 
phase, maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly reflexively 
threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it doesn't work any more. 





Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 Well, I am in the midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this 
morning about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of bliss. I felt it all 
around and in my body, sort of like an energy field that felt and feels 
palpable, like an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does 
justice to it. It is still going on and feels pretty good. It can fade if I 
begin to think about other stiff and I feel it more strongly as I allow myself 
to be aware of it.
 
 As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing outfits like the 
TM Movement do is to get folks thinking about awareness itself, in other words 
that we are something other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly 
shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help make for a happier 
life I think if one knows one can be something other than one's latest 
emotional state.
 
 The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement tells a pack of 
lies that serve to serve him or her and lead people down a path that is 
ultimately serving only the leader and his/her movement.
 That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM Movement. Even when 
I was a TM junkie, I noticed that the Movement only wanted you around if you 
were giving everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie - it 
was always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really gave back. 
 
 I know you current TM junkies will say that it was Marshy's Supreme Knowledge 
that he gave and us lowly dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious 
gift and abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
 to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's Movement, even though 
it has accomplished nothing of substance except to perpetuate itself all these 
years.
 
 Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as I slap the Movement?
 

 Nice post, enjoy the bliss.
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm convinced you can
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 no way to rule it out.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 I
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel and
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap! WE
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook
 to make a nice living for himself. 
 
 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different
 experiences of our own awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart
 Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a long time, making
 it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO
 accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy,
 Muktananda, Kriyananda and all the rest where they appear to
 be brilliant enlightened individuals one day and the next
 day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual
 opportunists and so forth. 
 Well, just
 as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations
 of perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't
 there be the same in so-called enlightened or at
 least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still not
 convinced there are these enlightened altered
 states of consciousness at all and I certainly don't
 think you can categorize these states, if they do exist,
 into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that
 are the same for all those

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread doctordumbass
good stuff - Now, quickly - *Fade The Cloth*! ...wash your car, clean the 
house, carry some water, chop some wood...etc.

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 Well, I am in the midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this 
morning about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of bliss. I felt it all 
around and in my body, sort of like an energy field that felt and feels 
palpable, like an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does 
justice to it. It is still going on and feels pretty good. It can fade if I 
begin to think about other stiff and I feel it more strongly as I allow myself 
to be aware of it.
 
 As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing outfits like the 
TM Movement do is to get folks thinking about awareness itself, in other words 
that we are something other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly 
shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help make for a happier 
life I think if one knows one can be something other than one's latest 
emotional state.
 
 The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement tells a pack of 
lies that serve to serve him or her and lead people down a path that is 
ultimately serving only the leader and his/her movement.
 That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM Movement. Even when 
I was a TM junkie, I noticed that the Movement only wanted you around if you 
were giving everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie - it 
was always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really gave back. 
 
 I know you current TM junkies will say that it was Marshy's Supreme Knowledge 
that he gave and us lowly dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious 
gift and abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
 to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's Movement, even though 
it has accomplished nothing of substance except to perpetuate itself all these 
years.
 
 Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as I slap the Movement?
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm convinced you can
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 no way to rule it out.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 I
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel and
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap! WE
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook
 to make a nice living for himself. 
 
 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different
 experiences of our own awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart
 Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a long time, making
 it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO
 accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy,
 Muktananda, Kriyananda and all the rest where they appear to
 be brilliant enlightened individuals one day and the next
 day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual
 opportunists and so forth. 
 Well, just
 as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations
 of perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't
 there be the same in so-called enlightened or at
 least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still not
 convinced there are these enlightened altered
 states of consciousness at all and I certainly don't
 think you can categorize these states, if they do exist

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread authfriend
I probably don't need to say that Barry's claims here are so wildly misleading 
as to amount to lies. 

 Well, I don't know Robin's sexual orientation for sure, but I think we can 
infer a lot from the fact that he pitched a Class A Hissy Fit when I called him 
a drama queen and he thought that I was inferring he was gay. Can you say 
hysterical overreaction? I think you can.  
Besides, if what Judy has been trying to infer about their private email 
relationship is true, how hetero could he possibly be, right? We've all seen 
her photos...
 

 
 From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@...
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 2:55 PM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 
 
   Thanks for the info - still get a weird feeling about this - he must have 
been pretty delusional to take twenty five years to wake up to reality. I have 
heard of, and been prone myself, of attempting to prolong an experience of 
higher states of consciousness, but this doesn't hold water for me. Does anyone 
know Robin's sexual orientation? I am simply curious, because he may be masking 
a larger psychological issue of social integration, vs. working his way out of 
Unity.


 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 Actually, in addition to his work on himself, he was supporting himself by 
doing substitute teaching in inner-city middle schools for much of that period. 
Hard to imagine a job more appropriate for cutting the ego down to size. 

 Most of the 25 years was apparently sheer misery and constant agonizing 
struggle. 

 As far as he's concerned, his awareness is now back to ordinary waking state.
 

  I just meant in terms of his awareness. The whole thing sounds weird, as if 
he could not escape a context that he very much wanted to, and it took him 25 
to 30% of his lifespan??? Even criminals get off more lightly. His explanations 
sound like too much self referencing, unless he was cutting diamonds, or 
building houses, or surfing, etc. during that 25 years.  

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 Not sure what you mean by ended up. Could you explain? 

 A lot of what he was doing, apparently, was purging himself of what he called 
his secret infirmities--presumably personality flaws he hadn't been aware 
of--that he believed were responsible for things going so wrong. Or rather, as 
he saw it, what the negative intelligences he perceived to have brought about 
his enlightenment took advantage of to bring him to grief. The other big part, 
I gather, was fighting to get his free will back. He said he hadn't been able 
to access it while he was in Unity.
 

 (Caveat for the terminally confused: This is what Robin said. I'm simply 
recounting it, not endorsing it. I haven't a clue as to its accuracy 
reality-wise.)
 

  Yeah, that is because Unity Consciousness is still Unity, in terms of the 
Self; a person's 'owned' universality. It isn't full enlightenment. Brahman, 
where the identity dissolves, is actual enlightenment. All the seven states, in 
MMY's early model (before he began in the 80's talking about Brahman), are 
recognized in terms of the self, Universal or not. Beyond that, lies true 
freedom and liberation. I can understand the lock UC could have on a dramatic 
personality, but *25 years* to 'get rid of it'? That seems really weird to me, 
and excessive. I wonder where he ended up? 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote:

 Fascinating, Salyavin. That is remarkably similar--virtually identical--to how 
Robin described his own exprience. Except for him, for whatever reason, it 
lasted for over a decade, and he spent 25 years working to get rid of it 
because of how ultimately destructive it had proved to be.
 

  At work once I became the unwitting centre of attention when I slipped into 
unity on a busy friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying 
to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair and sat round my 
desk, it was amazing how different yet the same I was, intensely relaxed but 
wide awake and flowing all things good from some centre that wasn't even me but 
was everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and vivid. Happy 
days, but it wore off a few hours later and that was that. What it all means I 
cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase, maybe all that bending my mind 
out of shape suddenly reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, 
it doesn't work any more.  






























 


 















Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread salyavin808
Sounds like a nice time, they say that discussing the knowledge will 
strengthen experience so maybe it's our high-minded chat on here that's 
bringing it out. 

 Just make sure you have a paperclip with you next time
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 Well, I am in the midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this 
morning about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of bliss. I felt it all 
around and in my body, sort of like an energy field that felt and feels 
palpable, like an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does 
justice to it. It is still going on and feels pretty good. It can fade if I 
begin to think about other stiff and I feel it more strongly as I allow myself 
to be aware of it.
 
 As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing outfits like the 
TM Movement do is to get folks thinking about awareness itself, in other words 
that we are something other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly 
shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help make for a happier 
life I think if one knows one can be something other than one's latest 
emotional state.
 
 The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement tells a pack of 
lies that serve to serve him or her and lead people down a path that is 
ultimately serving only the leader and his/her movement.
 That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM Movement. Even when 
I was a TM junkie, I noticed that the Movement only wanted you around if you 
were giving everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie - it 
was always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really gave back. 
 
 I know you current TM junkies will say that it was Marshy's Supreme Knowledge 
that he gave and us lowly dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious 
gift and abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
 to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's Movement, even though 
it has accomplished nothing of substance except to perpetuate itself all these 
years.
 
 Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as I slap the Movement?
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm convinced you can
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 no way to rule it out.
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 I
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel and
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap! WE
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook
 to make a nice living for himself. 
 
 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different
 experiences of our own awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart
 Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a long time, making
 it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO
 accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy,
 Muktananda, Kriyananda and all the rest where they appear to
 be brilliant enlightened individuals one day and the next
 day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual
 opportunists and so forth. 
 Well, just
 as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations
 of perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't
 there be the same in so-called enlightened or at
 least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still not
 convinced there are these enlightened altered
 states

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread Michael Jackson
Someone could trace my paper clip cult back to this forum, so I have to come up 
with some other kind-a group that folks will willing follow me and gimme all 
their money and land and cars and homes and stuff like that. The energy is 
still going strong as of 6 pm here. I can't even get very exercised by any of 
the posts here on FFL - it just sort of tickles the energy field and my 
attention is back on the bliss energy. 

On Mon, 2/17/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, February 17, 2014, 4:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Sounds like a nice time, they say that discussing
 the knowledge will strengthen experience so
 maybe it's our high-minded chat on here that's
 bringing it out.
 Just make sure you have a paperclip with you next
 time
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@...
 wrote:
 
 Well, I am in the
 midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this
 morning about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of
 bliss. I felt it all around and in my body, sort of like an
 energy field that felt and feels palpable, like
 an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does
 justice to it. It is still going on and feels pretty good.
 It can fade if I begin to think about other stiff and I feel
 it more strongly as I allow myself to be aware of it.
 
 
 
 As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing
 outfits like the TM Movement do is to get folks thinking
 about awareness itself, in other words that we are something
 other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly
 shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help
 make for a happier life I think if one knows one can be
 something other than one's latest emotional state.
 
 
 
 The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement
 tells a pack of lies that serve to serve him or her and lead
 people down a path that is ultimately serving only the
 leader and his/her movement.
 
 That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM
 Movement. Even when I was a TM junkie, I noticed that the
 Movement only wanted you around if you were giving
 everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie
 - it was always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really
 gave back. 
 
 
 
 I know you current TM junkies will say that it was
 Marshy's Supreme Knowledge that he gave and us lowly
 dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious gift and
 abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
 
 to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's
 Movement, even though it has accomplished nothing of
 substance except to perpetuate itself all these years.
 
 
 
 Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as
 I slap the Movement?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and
 Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm convinced you can
 
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences
 were
 
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 
 no way to rule it out.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 
 
 I
 
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us
 aren't
 
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up
 baloney
 
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel
 and
 
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap!
 WE
 
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-17 Thread salyavin808

 Wow, we have a new leader! Nabby and Buck will be round for darshan any minute!

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 Someone could trace my paper clip cult back to this forum, so I have to come 
up with some other kind-a group that folks will willing follow me and gimme all 
their money and land and cars and homes and stuff like that. The energy is 
still going strong as of 6 pm here. I can't even get very exercised by any of 
the posts here on FFL - it just sort of tickles the energy field and my 
attention is back on the bliss energy. 
 
 On Mon, 2/17/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, February 17, 2014, 4:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Sounds like a nice time, they say that discussing
 the knowledge will strengthen experience so
 maybe it's our high-minded chat on here that's
 bringing it out.
 Just make sure you have a paperclip with you next
 time
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote:
 
 Well, I am in the
 midst of one of these random experiences. I woke this
 morning about 4:30 am and realized I was in a state of
 bliss. I felt it all around and in my body, sort of like an
 energy field that felt and feels palpable, like
 an aura all around me. It is just bliss, no other word does
 justice to it. It is still going on and feels pretty good.
 It can fade if I begin to think about other stiff and I feel
 it more strongly as I allow myself to be aware of it.
 
 
 
 As I lay there at 4:30, I thought that the one decent thing
 outfits like the TM Movement do is to get folks thinking
 about awareness itself, in other words that we are something
 other than the body and the vagaries of our constantly
 shifting focus and emotional states we get into. It can help
 make for a happier life I think if one knows one can be
 something other than one's latest emotional state.
 
 
 
 The problem obviously occurs when the leader of the movement
 tells a pack of lies that serve to serve him or her and lead
 people down a path that is ultimately serving only the
 leader and his/her movement.
 
 That was one of the things I always disliked about the TM
 Movement. Even when I was a TM junkie, I noticed that the
 Movement only wanted you around if you were giving
 everything you could to the Movement. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie
 - it was always a gimmie deal and the Movement never really
 gave back. 
 
 
 
 I know you current TM junkies will say that it was
 Marshy's Supreme Knowledge that he gave and us lowly
 dogs should be immensely grateful for this precious gift and
 abase ourselves and give with BOTH hands
 
 to ensure the continuance of the lofty goals of Marshy's
 Movement, even though it has accomplished nothing of
 substance except to perpetuate itself all these years.
 
 
 
 Isn't it wonderful that Bliss can be experienced even as
 I slap the Movement?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and
 Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 7:52 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm convinced you can
 
 categorise these different states into the boxes as
 
 described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences
 were
 
 influenced by his clear descriptions. If I'd never read
 
 the book or seen the lecture, would I have had the
 
 experiences in the same order in the same way? There's
 
 no way to rule it out.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 awoelflebater@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 mjackson74@... wrote:
 
 
 
 I
 
 agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said -
 
 that we are all part of this cosmic soup, and the entire
 
 infinite or nearly infinite range of experiences are
 
 available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are
 
 available to all of us at anytime, but most of us
 aren't
 
 aware of it. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up
 baloney
 
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel
 and
 
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 
 runnin' around doing all this doing

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Michael Jackson
that's cause you aren't taking amrit, having yagyas done and practicing TMSP as 
many hours as possible in a group up in Skelmersdale

On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 1:49 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Yes, I used to get a lot of things like that. A
 text book progression of enlightened states as espoused by
 Marshy. Really amazingly nice and it convinced me I was
 going to get there but it all stopped, maybe it will start
 up again but I doubt it and it doesn't even interest me
 any more, it's like the acid trips I used to do, a great
 way to spend a day but is it a good long term
 proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I say that because as I've always understood it,
 the transcendental field is without attributes.  It is
 when we experience it that it becomes blissful.  But
 otherwise, it is just a silent
 witness.Whatever
 you were experiencing was creeping into waking
 state.
 
 
  ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
 Yes,
 like being wrapped in infinite cotton wool, all rosy and
 warm. During some of those experiences I'd spend days
 seeing the world like it's made of christmas tree lights
 with that angel hair round them. Then it got even better and
 I saw where the light came from and I knew everything
 without being able to answer any questions and then it
 stopped.
 What
 the point of it was, other than to make me feel my ascetic
 life was paying off, is beyond me. But if it had lasted any
 longer I probably would have started a cult myself. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 (-:   Hey, neat about
 that witnessing experience.  I experienced it once, and
 didn't realize it till after the fact.  But was the
 experience blissful for you?
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Potayto,
 potahto.
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 dhamiltony2k5@... wrote:
 
 No,
 most of what you are offering as definition technically is
 about sects.   Cults form around charismatic persons. 
 Sects form out
 of specialness, exception or differentiation as in different
 denominations of
 protestantism or catholicism or denominations or types of
 meditation.
 Those are sects.  Sects are around fragmentation and cults
 are
 around persons as charismatics.  For instance, If
 someone really
 'charismatic', like earlier defined by Weber, like a
 Robin were to show up in Fairfield, Iowa and
 take off a bunch of meditators as his followers by force and
 power of
 personality then we're talking cult, as a sect.  That is
 different
 than the different sects of people out teaching meditations
 and some
 others out there teaching other things they've
 learned.-Buck in the Dome
 Salyavin808
 writes: You don't need any leader to be a cult. All you
 need is a belief system that sets you apart from the
 norm.
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Michael Jackson
I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all part 
of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 

The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!

And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 

So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 

On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 here, just wanting to set a
 marker
 But
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I used to
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it all
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 it a good long term proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I say that because as I've always understood it,
 the transcendental field is without attributes.  It is
 when we experience it that it becomes blissful.  But
 otherwise, it is just a silent
 witness.Whatever
 you were experiencing was creeping into waking
 state.
 
 
  ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
 Yes,
 like being wrapped in infinite cotton wool, all rosy and
 warm. During some of those experiences I'd spend days
 seeing the world like it's made of christmas tree lights
 with that angel hair round them. Then it got even better and
 I saw where the light came from and I knew everything
 without being able to answer any questions and then it
 stopped.
 What
 the point of it was, other than to make me feel my ascetic
 life was paying off, is beyond me. But if it had lasted any
 longer I probably would have started a cult myself. 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 (-:   Hey, neat about
 that witnessing experience.  I experienced it once, and
 didn't realize it till after the fact.  But was the
 experience blissful for you

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread doctordumbass
Hmmm - You probably don't want Barry's cynicism to rub off on you. 

As far as the long time habit, and progression, of expanding one's awareness, 
through meditation, it has nothing to do with achieving signposts, or escaping 
this world, or acting like either an asshole or a saint. It is simply a means 
of discovering the full range of human experience, and integrating it. No robes 
or sexual exploitation, required.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 here, just wanting to set a
 marker
 But
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I used to
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it all
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 it a good long term proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I say that because as I've always understood it,
 the transcendental field is without attributes.  It is
 when we experience it that it becomes blissful.  But
 otherwise, it is just a silent
 witness.Whatever
 you were experiencing was creeping into waking
 state.
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
 Yes,
 like being wrapped in infinite cotton wool, all rosy and
 warm

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread steve.sundur

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 

 I can't help but think MJ, that you have not had much exposure to some of the 
Vedic, or Hindu literature.  I say that because I think you sort of 
misrepresent it.  I am not saying that it is the ultimate Truth, but you are 
painting a picture that I don't recognize, nor would, I think, most people who 
have had some exposure to it.
 




Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread awoelflebater

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 

 Well, just as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations of 
perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't there be the same in 
so-called enlightened or at least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still 
not convinced there are these enlightened altered states of consciousness at 
all and I certainly don't think you can categorize these states, if they do 
exist, into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that are the same 
for all those having attained those states.
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 here, just wanting to set a
 marker
 But
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I used to
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it all
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 it a good long term proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I say that because as I've always understood it,
 the transcendental field is without attributes.  It is
 when we experience it that it becomes blissful.  But
 otherwise, it is just a silent
 witness.Whatever
 you were experiencing was creeping into waking
 state.
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread steve.sundur

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 I am sure you are aware, this isn't really a revelation, and happens to be one 
of the things most every piece of Hindu points out, right?
 

 As I said before, I think the rest is sort of skewed, or a sort of limited 
view.  
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 here, just wanting to set a
 marker
 But
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I used to
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it all
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 it a good long term proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I say that because as I've always understood it,
 the transcendental field is without attributes.  It is
 when we experience it that it becomes blissful.  But
 otherwise, it is just a silent
 witness.Whatever
 you were experiencing was creeping into waking
 state.
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 
 Yes,
 like being wrapped in infinite cotton wool, all rosy and
 warm. During some of those experiences I'd spend days
 seeing the world like it's made of christmas tree lights
 with that angel hair round them. Then it got even better and
 I saw where the light

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Richard J. Williams
On 2/16/2014 9:10 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a 
 nice living for himself. 
 
This message  feels like a mind-fuck posted by a button-pushing troll 
that doesn't like Hindus or Hindu Pundits. Why shouldn't Hindus be able 
to make a nice living for themselves? Go figure.


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread salyavin808

 I'm convinced you can categorise these different states into the boxes as 
described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were influenced by his 
clear descriptions. If I'd never read the book or seen the lecture, would I 
have had the experiences in the same order in the same way? There's no way to 
rule it out.

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 

 Well, just as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations of 
perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't there be the same in 
so-called enlightened or at least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still 
not convinced there are these enlightened altered states of consciousness at 
all and I certainly don't think you can categorize these states, if they do 
exist, into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that are the same 
for all those having attained those states.
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 here, just wanting to set a
 marker
 But
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
 Yes, I used to
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it all
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 it a good long term proposition? 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around trying
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing all
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but was
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 that was that. What it
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 --In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 about six months.  And it sounds like more than
 witnessing.I

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread steve.sundur
I love that question, and its one that I've increasingly asked myself, 
especially since I've been posting here over the years. 

 And that is one reason I think the spiritual, i.e. Hindu, Vedic literature is 
helpful.  Yes, I know that is something Maharishi would say. 
 

 Now, for me, there is a corollary question.  Actually two.
 

 1) People, perhaps Barry especially, state that Maharishi had charisma, but 
basically no real enlightenment.  I don't agree with that.  The question arises 
for me, if he didn't have any enlightenment, where the hell do the experiences 
I sometimes have come from.  I mean, I subscribe to the tenant that the 
development of consciousness requires a lot of inner work, i.e., a lot of 
sorting out of the quirks in personality and false beliefs, in addition to 
meditation.  But aside from that, I haven't followed any other teacher, so 
again, where do some of my experiences come from.
 

 2) Not so much a question, but an uncertainty.  I've pretty much divorced 
myself from the TMO, and even my practice of meditation, but I find the 
experiences I have fall within the guidelines of the seven states as outlined 
by MMY.  And, is that because I was so invested for all those years?  On the 
other hand, I haven't been invested for over 20 years. (coinciding when our 
first child was born), but those seven states is the template I come back to.  
 

 But I have also learned to push any expectations away.  What I mean by that is 
that when I have any so called experiences, I don't pay attention to them, 
because I know that any kind of mood making is absolutely anathema to spiritual 
development.  Those experiences are going to have to prove themselves over time.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 
 I'm convinced you can categorise these different states into the boxes as 
described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were influenced by his 
clear descriptions. If I'd never read the book or seen the lecture, would I 
have had the experiences in the same order in the same way? There's no way to 
rule it out.

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 

 Well, just as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations of 
perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't there be the same in 
so-called enlightened or at least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still 
not convinced there are these enlightened altered states of consciousness at 
all and I certainly don't think you can categorize these states, if they do 
exist, into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that are the same 
for all those having attained those states.
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 thinking of some of the other flashy experiences
 that have been related here periodically.
 Bob
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 footnotes, and then life

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Michael Jackson
that's because you open the books with the belief that its some sort of high 
truth and I am looking at it like the authors were everyday guys who had 
occasional out of the ozone experiences. Same way many take it as a given that 
Marshy and other fakirs (or is that fakers?) are automatically considered 
enlightened and can do no wrong.

The acceptance of Indian beliefs as something special is the reason we have so 
much bull crap crap in the New Agers. It all started with Madame Blavatsky, 
Annie Besant and Alice Bailey and their acceptance of and writing about the 
Hindu mysticism. We could have done without it all, or as Edg would say, BAH!

I miss Edg - he was pithy and erudite all at the same time.

On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sun...@yahoo.com steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 4:30 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@...
 wrote:
 And like everyone
 else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate
 their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created
 all the sacred books of the Hindoos that everybody was
 supposed to embrace if they were smart. Along comes Marshy,
 fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice
 living for himself. 
 I can't help but think MJ,
 that you have not had much exposure to some of the Vedic, or
 Hindu literature.  I say that because I think you sort
 of misrepresent it.  I am not saying that it is the
 ultimate Truth, but you are painting a picture
 that I don't recognize, nor would, I think, most people
 who have had some exposure to it.
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Michael Jackson
I agree but Marshy did - that was part of his con game.

On Sun, 2/16/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 4:35 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@...
 wrote:
 
 I agree with some
 of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all
 part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly
 infinite range of experiences are available to us. The kinds
 of things Sal relates are available to all of us at anytime,
 but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable
 state of awareness and a well laid out
 progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney
 on the part of the old rishis who didn't want to work,
 just wanted to set around all day looking at their navel and
 when they had some of these experiences they said Ah
 ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk
 runnin' around doing all this doing are full of crap! WE
 have the lock on what is true, real and righ!
 
 
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone
 else to corroborate their reality so they made a big deal
 out of it and created all the sacred books of the Hindoos
 that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart.
 Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook
 to make a nice living for himself. 
 
 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different
 experiences of our own awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart
 Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a long time, making
 it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO
 accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy,
 Muktananda, Kriyananda and all the rest where they appear to
 be brilliant enlightened individuals one day and the next
 day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual
 opportunists and so forth. 
 Well, just
 as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations
 of perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't
 there be the same in so-called enlightened or at
 least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still not
 convinced there are these enlightened altered
 states of consciousness at all and I certainly don't
 think you can categorize these states, if they do exist,
 into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that
 are the same for all those having attained those
 states.
 
 
  On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@...
 steve.sundur@...
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and
 Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'
 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 2:28 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm
 
 thinking of some of the other flashy
 experiences
 
 that have been related here periodically.
 
 Bob
 
 Price related one, sometime ago.  MJ related one
 
 recently.  In both cases they were more or less just
 
 footnotes, and then life moved on.  But
 
 they also seemed to have left their mark and a pretty deep
 
 impression, as though saying, We're not finished
 
 here, just wanting to set a
 
 marker
 
 But
 
 who knows, maybe it's just random brain
 
 activity as I believe Curtis once said.
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 
 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Yes, I used to
 
 get a lot of things like that. A text book progression of
 
 enlightened states as espoused by Marshy. Really amazingly
 
 nice and it convinced me I was going to get there but it
 all
 
 stopped, maybe it will start up again but I doubt it and it
 
 doesn't even interest me any more, it's like the
 
 acid trips I used to do, a great way to spend a day but is
 
 it a good long term proposition? 
 
 At work once I became the unwitting centre of
 
 attention when I slipped into unity on a busy
 
 friday afternoon when we were normally running around
 trying
 
 to wrap everything up. Everyone else just pulled up a chair
 
 and sat round my desk, it was amazing how different yet the
 
 same I was, intensely relaxed but wide awake and flowing
 all
 
 things good from some centre that wasn't even me but
 was
 
 everything that existed and it was all lush, powerful and
 
 vivid. Happy days, but it wore off a few hours later and
 
 that was that. What it
 
 all means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase,
 
 maybe all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly
 
 reflexively threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever,
 it
 
 doesn't work any more...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --In
 
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
 steve.sundur@...
 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 Wow, I hope you don't me
 
 saying this, but this is the nicest post we've had in
 
 about six months

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread Michael Jackson
Oh Sal Oh Sal! I laughed like there was no tomorrow when I read of your 
followers wearing chains of paper clips! You are hilarious sometimes!

On Sun, 2/16/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 5:02 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
   
   
   Yes it did sound familiar to Robin, I didn't
 have any rolling about on the floor crying. I was just
 sitting at my desk looking at a paper clip, suddenly I
 noticed a fingerprint on the metal and then I saw a rainbow
 in the oil of my fingerprint. And then everything changed,
 very real and profound. Wish I had the words to do it
 justice but the inner clarity and the colours and the
 sweetness and variety of emotion. All I remember thinking
 was wow, I am the world.
 It only lasted four hours too, which isn't
 enough time to get a spiritual movement together. Probably
 just as well, all my followers would probably wear
 paperclips round their necks to signal their devotion - it
 could've been awful - but may have been great, the
 sitting round talking to people was really lovely, like
 those late night chats with good friends where you forget
 who you are and just roll with the conversation.Turn that up
 to eleven and you'll know where I'm coming from. I
 think it takes a certain sort of person to get an experience
 like that and take it some different level so other people
 can benefit. 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@...
 wrote:
 
 Fascinating, Salyavin. That is
 remarkably similar--virtually identical--to how Robin
 described his own exprience. Except for him, for whatever
 reason, it lasted for over a decade, and he spent 25 years
 working to get rid of it because of how ultimately
 destructive it had proved to be.
  At work once
 I became the unwitting centre of attention when I slipped
 into unity on a busy friday afternoon when we
 were normally running around trying to wrap everything up.
 Everyone else just pulled up a chair and sat round my desk,
 it was amazing how different yet the same I was, intensely
 relaxed but wide awake and flowing all things good from some
 centre that wasn't even me but was everything that
 existed and it was all lush, powerful and vivid. Happy days,
 but it wore off a few hours later and that was
 that. What it all
 means I cannot say, my guess is nothing, just a phase, maybe
 all that bending my mind out of shape suddenly reflexively
 threw it into a euphoric state. But whatever, it doesn't
 work any more. 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread steve.sundur

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 that's because you open the books with the belief that its some sort of high 
truth and I am looking at it like the authors were everyday guys who had 
occasional out of the ozone experiences. Same way many take it as a given that 
Marshy and other fakirs (or is that fakers?) are automatically considered 
enlightened and can do no wrong.
 That's kind of what I thought.  It's the 'ol mind reading trick.  You know how 
I approach these books. You know how I view Maharishi. It's very convenient to 
play that card.  
 
 The acceptance of Indian beliefs as something special is the reason we have so 
much bull crap crap in the New Agers. It all started with Madame Blavatsky, 
Annie Besant and Alice Bailey and their acceptance of and writing about the 
Hindu mysticism. We could have done without it all, or as Edg would say, BAH!
 

 I found books from the members of the Theosophical Society very informative, 
including Charles Leadbetter and Harold Waldwin Percival, although Percival 
later eschewed the Society.  I did not read much from Madame Blavatsky or the 
others you mention.  And that goes for the Ballards as well.  There was a 
positive take away from my three month involvement with the The Saint Germain 
Society.  No big unprocessed resentments. No need to bash them.
 
 I miss Edg - he was pithy and erudite all at the same time.
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' 
from 'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday, February 16, 2014, 4:30 PM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 ---In
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
mjackson74@...
 wrote:
 And like everyone
 else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate
 their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created
 all the sacred books of the Hindoos that everybody was
 supposed to embrace if they were smart. Along comes Marshy,
 fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice
 living for himself. 
 I can't help but think MJ,
 that you have not had much exposure to some of the Vedic, or
 Hindu literature.  I say that because I think you sort
 of misrepresent it.  I am not saying that it is the
 ultimate Truth, but you are painting a picture
 that I don't recognize, nor would, I think, most people
 who have had some exposure to it. 



Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 'Sect'

2014-02-16 Thread doctordumbass
when I have any so called experiences, I don't pay attention to them, because 
I know that any kind of mood making is absolutely anathema to spiritual 
development.  Those experiences are going to have to prove themselves over time.

Yeper-doodle!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steve.sundur@... wrote:

 I love that question, and its one that I've increasingly asked myself, 
especially since I've been posting here over the years. 

 And that is one reason I think the spiritual, i.e. Hindu, Vedic literature is 
helpful.  Yes, I know that is something Maharishi would say. 
 

 Now, for me, there is a corollary question.  Actually two.
 

 1) People, perhaps Barry especially, state that Maharishi had charisma, but 
basically no real enlightenment.  I don't agree with that.  The question arises 
for me, if he didn't have any enlightenment, where the hell do the experiences 
I sometimes have come from.  I mean, I subscribe to the tenant that the 
development of consciousness requires a lot of inner work, i.e., a lot of 
sorting out of the quirks in personality and false beliefs, in addition to 
meditation.  But aside from that, I haven't followed any other teacher, so 
again, where do some of my experiences come from.
 

 2) Not so much a question, but an uncertainty.  I've pretty much divorced 
myself from the TMO, and even my practice of meditation, but I find the 
experiences I have fall within the guidelines of the seven states as outlined 
by MMY.  And, is that because I was so invested for all those years?  On the 
other hand, I haven't been invested for over 20 years. (coinciding when our 
first child was born), but those seven states is the template I come back to.  
 

 But I have also learned to push any expectations away.  What I mean by that is 
that when I have any so called experiences, I don't pay attention to them, 
because I know that any kind of mood making is absolutely anathema to spiritual 
development.  Those experiences are going to have to prove themselves over time.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 
 I'm convinced you can categorise these different states into the boxes as 
described by Marshy, but is that because my experiences were influenced by his 
clear descriptions. If I'd never read the book or seen the lecture, would I 
have had the experiences in the same order in the same way? There's no way to 
rule it out.

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote:

 
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote:

 I agree with some of the things I believe Barry has said - that we are all 
part of this cosmic soup, and the entire infinite or nearly infinite range of 
experiences are available to us. The kinds of things Sal relates are available 
to all of us at anytime, but most of us aren't aware of it. 
 
 The idea that there is some kind of definable state of awareness and a well 
laid out progression towards it is in my opinion some made up baloney on the 
part of the old rishis who didn't want to work, just wanted to set around all 
day looking at their navel and when they had some of these experiences they 
said Ah ha! This is REAL reality, and all these po' folk runnin' around doing 
all this doing are full of crap! WE have the lock on what is true, real and 
righ!
 
 And like everyone else in the world they wanted everyone else to corroborate 
their reality so they made a big deal out of it and created all the sacred 
books of the Hindoos that everybody was supposed to embrace if they were smart. 
Along comes Marshy, fanatic Hindoo, and he used the playbook to make a nice 
living for himself. 
 
 So I think we can slip in and out of these different experiences of our own 
awareness. Some like maybe Eckhart Tolle can choose to stay in one spot for a 
long time, making it seem permanent. Others go back and forth. Which IMO 
accounts for the behavior we see in folks like Marshy, Muktananda, Kriyananda 
and all the rest where they appear to be brilliant enlightened individuals one 
day and the next day appear to be venal, petty tyrants and sexual opportunists 
and so forth. 
 

 Well, just as in waking state there are almost infinite manifestations of 
perception, behaviour, intelligence then why wouldn't there be the same in 
so-called enlightened or at least, 'other' states of awareness? I am still 
not convinced there are these enlightened altered states of consciousness at 
all and I certainly don't think you can categorize these states, if they do 
exist, into tight little cubicles of defined characteristics that are the same 
for all those having attained those states.
 
 On Sun, 2/16/14, steve.sundur@... mailto:steve.sundur@... steve.sundur@... 
mailto:steve.sundur@... wrote:
 
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Drinking Vedic Coffee and Discerning 'Cult' from 
'Sect'
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Sunday